America’s Black Soldiers in WWII

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST: Now, earlier, we talked about Ben Macintyre about Colditz and the second world war. Our next guest has focused on an untold part about history as well. Author Matthew Delmont explores the contributions of black Americans to the war effort in his new book, “Half American: The Epic Story of African Americans Fighting World War II at Home and Abroad”. And he speaks to Walter Isaacson about their impact on the war and on civil rights at home.

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WALTER ISAACSON, HOST: Thank you, Christiane. And Professor Matthew Delmont, welcome to the show.

MATTHEW DELMONT, AUTHOR, “HALF AMERICAN”: Thank you for having me.

ISAACSON: Your wonderful book, “Half American”, describes what happened to blacks who are fighting in World War II. This is before Truman desegregates the military in 1948. Tell me what happened and what that was like.

DELMONT: Well, that meant for black Americans who volunteered or drafted in the military is that they were segregated in the service, in every aspect of their service. So, one they got to army bases, they were sent to separate barracks, they’d eat to separate dining halls. Use separate latrines. And then once they deployed, everything was segregated as well. They segregated even the blood that was given to the Red Cross. This was really discouraging and frustrating for black Americans who volunteered. Because like so many white Americans, they wanted to give everything they could to help win the war and be in defense of their country. But while they’re trying to serve their country, they were discriminated against. And that was deeply, deeply hurtful to them.

ISAACSON: Well, they were all black units, weren’t there?

DELMONT: There were. There were. So, once black Americans were drafted into the army and the navy, they were put into separate units. In the navy, they could only serve in the messman’s (ph) branch where they essentially waited on white officers. In the army, they were largely put into noncombat roles. But they played a really important role in terms of supply and logistics. These were primarily black units that were led, typically, by white officers.

ISAACSON: You say supply and logistics, that’s really interesting in your book because I never realized how important that was.

DELMONT: Yes, one of the key things I try to make clear in the book because World War II wasn’t just a battle of strategy and will. But it wasbattle of supply that Americans and their allies couldn’t have won this massive bubble war if they couldn’t have moved supplies and troops and rations and ammunition all across the world. It was really black Americans who were the backbone of that supply and logistic effort. It wasn’t possible to move all these materials without black Americans loading and unloading trucks, driving those trucks, loading and unloading ships, clearing jungles, building runways. The scale of the logistics was massive. After D-Day, for example, this Red Ball Express truck drivers move more than 400,000 tons of supplies, ammunition, food, rations all across Europe. One of the things I write in the book is that we think about the supplies that were transferred across Europe after D-Day, almost all of them past through the hand of at least one black American. So, without the work of these black supply and logistical forces, American forces couldn’t move, shoot, or eat.

ISAACSON: Because of the segregation, you have in your book some people who tried to enlist and they can’t actually join because the army hasn’t quite accommodated enough black units. Tell me what happens to people who tried to enlist and can’t get in.

DELMONT: Yes, in the days after Pearl Harbor, there were dozens of stories in black newspapers. You know, black Americans trying to volunteer. That they wanted to help join the military and defend the country. But they were turned away by army and navy recruiters because at that point, the military did not have enough black units to accommodate black Americans. And they were deeply, deeply frustrated by that. They said, what’s wrong with my service? What’s wrong with me is an American that you won’t take me into the military? There were three black men in Chicago who tried to volunteer for service. And they were turned away by army recruiters there. And they wrote to “The Chicago Defender”, which is the major black newspapers at the time that broadcasted — printed the story nationally. And they said that white America needs to wake up and come to their sentences. That if they’re going to win this global war, they need to use the manpower of the entire United States. And that meant including black American in the fight.

ISAACSON: But when you talk about blacks fighting in World War II, we idealize it sometimes. And the iconic case of that is the Tuskegee Airmen. And in your book, you talk about Benjamin O. Davis. It was more complicated that I think than sometimes we like to look back on it with a gauzy lens.

DELMONT: Yes, one of the things about history is progress is never a straight line. And so, one of the main characters in my book is Benjamin O. Davis Jr. He graduated from West Point in 1936. And at the time, he was the first black graduate in 20th. Only the fourth black man to ever graduate from West Point. The army really had no idea what to do with him, because he wanted to be a pilot but at that point, they were not allowing any black pilots. And so, they sent him to teach at a black military school in Tuskegee. It takes several years and significant campaigning by black activists and black press for the army air corps to finally open its doors to black pilots. Benjamin O. Davis Jr. becomes the first leader of this first quadrant of Tuskegee Airmen. But even still, once they established that airbase, they still aren’t given an opportunity to participate in combat. They are just flying training missions over and over again in Alabama. It takes nearly two years for them to get off the ground and get deployed. While they’re still in Alabama, at Tuskegee, and it is easy to glorify that time there. But it was a Jim Crow base in a Jim Crow town in a Jim Crow state. And so, the descriptions of Benjamin O. Davis Jr. and others is that Tuskegee and its surrounding community was hellish in many ways. That the kind of treatment they received from white officers, white enlisted men, and from white townspeople was not fitting of black soldiers, not fitting of black airmen. Once they finally deploy, they’re in combat in the Mediterranean. And they do an admirable job fighting Nazi planes. But even after that, one of their own commanders try and undercut them and say that they actually hadn’t succeeded in combat. He wants —

ISAACSON: This is a white commander you’re talking about?

DELMONT: It’s a — yes. One of the white commanders. He tries to undercut them and assigned them to coast patrol duty. And so, it’s this back and forth series where the Tuskegee airmen have to — not only fight Nazi planes in the air, but they sometimes to fight their own white commanders to prove their worth as pilots. And it’s an inspiring story because they recognize that they have a huge amount of weight on their shoulders. If they don’t succeed in combat, it might be generations before other black Americans were given the opportunity to be pilots.

ISAACSON: I think your title comes from something that a guy named James Gratz Thompson said. Explain to me who he was and what he was talking about.

DELMONT: The title of the book is “Half American” which comes from a letter that James Gratz Thompson wrote to the “Pittsburgh Courier”. James Thompson was a 26-year-old from Wichita, Kansas. And shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor, he knows that he and other black Americans are going to be drafted. So, he writes this letter to the “Pittsburgh Courier” which was the largest and most influential black newspaper in the country. What James Thompson writes, he asked, should I sacrifice my life to live half-American? Is the America I know, worth defending? And those words just really stuck with me in the seven years I was working on this book. Should I sacrifice my life to live half-American? What James Thompson was trying to capture is, what does it mean for black Americans, like him, to be drafted into the military that’s segregated? And that he’s going to be discriminated against in the service of his country. The “Pittsburgh Courier” uses Thompson’s letter to launch a Double Victory Campaign which becomes the rallying cry for black Americans during the war. Black Americans are calling for a victory over fascists abroad, but also victory over racism at home. And so, for me, I used that title “Half American”. To think it speaks volumes to what black Americans are fighting for. They absolutely wanted to win the military battle. But they also want to make sure when they came home that they were going to be treated fully as Americans, as full citizens.

ISAACSON: Explain to me this Double Victory Campaign.

DELMONT: So, the Double Victory Campaign was African-Americans call to have victory over fascism abroad and victory over racism at home. I mean, actually, if you stop to think about it, it was really profound that they were essentially fighting two wars at the same time. They absolutely wanted to defeat the axis and Nazi Germany. And they did their part to do that. And they understood, I think, earlier than white Americans did what a significant threat Adolf Hitler and fascism posed to the world. They looked at the black newspapers from the 1930s. There’s already articles saying the second world war has started in Europe. And drawing comparisons between the kind of treatment Jews in Europe were receiving at the hands of Hitler and the Nazis and the kind of treatment black Americans received in the Jim Crow south. So, black Americans clearly understood the dangers of fascism posed and they wanted to do everything they could to win the military battle. But for that whole generation of black veterans, they come home and start fighting for civil rights. As one veteran put it, they went from fighting in the European field (ph) of operations to the southern field (ph) operations. I think that’s important when we think back at that period of World War II that 1945, 1946, the war really kept going for black Americans just because the military battle was over, there is still a whole another front to the battle taking place in the United States. And black legends (ph) really helped fuel the civil rights movement in the decades after the war.

ISAACSON: You talked about the black newspapers, the “Pittsburgh Courier”, the “Amsterdam News”, “The Chicago Defender. And you quote from them a lot in your book. And one of the themes is a comparison of what the Nazi are doing and Jim Crow Laws, segregation. And there is a wonderful poem, you know, Langston Hughes poem. I’m going to quote it to you, “You tell me that Hitler is a mighty bad man. I guess he took lessons from the Ku Klux Klan.” So, this comparison, we sometimes compare things too quickly to the Nazis. But this comparison of racial segregation in America and what was happening, the Nazi were doing is something that pervades the black press at that time.

DELMONT: Absolutely. And the comparison is out. In part because Hitler and the Nazis explicitly pointed to U.S. racial policies to justify their own treatment of Jewish people in Europe. I mean, what was important for me in this story and to start the story not with Pearl Harbor but to start it in the 1930s. As early as 1933, black newspapers are already pointing to the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany. And point out what a dire threat this poses not just to Europe but really to the world. They point out these really explicit connections between desegregation of Jews on train cars in Europe, the kind of violence due to part (ph) experiencing, the theft of property, and how that very closely parallels the treatment of black Americans in the Jim Crow South. And so, you see these editorials repeatedly in 1934 and 1935. And then there is a host of black Americans who go and volunteer to fight in the Spanish Civil War, it started in 1936. Because they understand the coup by General Franco and his fascist forces against the Democratic — re- elected republic government in Spain to be a significant danger as well. The headlines in black newspapers are just saying World War II has already started by 1936. And so, for black Americans, they’ve seen dozens and dozens of these stories through the course of 1930s. And so, well before Pearl Harbor ever happens, black Americas are ready to fight against fascism in Europe.

ISAACSON: One of the fascinating stories in your book is about Medgar Evers, the famous civil rights leader slain in 1960’s. But he was on the Red Ball Express. Young guy, 19 years old, fighting in World War II. And it really, in some ways, helps lead him to being the civil rights leader. Explain that to us.

DELMONT: So, Medgar Evers is a name hopefully most Americans know. As you noted, he was an extremely important civil rights activists who was tragically assassinated in 1963. But as a 19-year-old, he’s part of a group called Red Ball Express who were black truck drivers who transported supplies all across Europe after the invasion of Normandy in D-Day. And Evers was part of that invasion. Evers described his experience in World War II as being eye-opening. While he’s in France, he has a chance to meet a French family. And he’s there for about a week. And he said that it was really the first time in his life that a white person had ever treated him as an equal. Had ever treated him as a full human being. That changes his perspective on what’s possible. When he goes back to Mississippi, he decides to dedicate his life to fighting for civil rights. On his 21st birthday in 1946, he goes to register to vote with a group of other black veterans in Decatur, Mississippi. Only to be turned away by a white man with guns. And what he said later was, you know, we black veterans have been on the beach at Normandy. We were trying to fight for America including Mississippi. But now after what looks like the Germans hadn’t killed us. He feared that white Mississippians would. Evers takes on increasingly important roles in the NAACP. In Mississippi in 1950’s, including investigating the killing of Emmett Till. Until he’s tragically assassinated himself in 1963. And so, for me, like Evers story really clearly articulates that Double Victory Campaign that I referenced earlier. That Evers was absolutely fighting fascism in Europe. And as part of this group of Red Ball Express truck drivers, he was really key to the supply effort that helped win the war. But then he dedicated his life and ultimately gave his life to help secure freedom and democracy at home. Because he, like that whole generation of black veterans, understood that it wasn’t enough to just secure human (ph) democracy abroad. It actually had to be true to America as well.

ISAACSON: Some of the people who served, so to speak, did so on the home front. And in your book, you have Thurgood Marshall, a legendary character who argued the case of Brown V. Board of Education from the Supreme Court, then becomes a Supreme Court justice. But it seems to me in some ways he gets his training doing some of this on the home front in — on behalf of blacks serving in the military.

DELMONT: Exactly. During the war, Thurgood Marshall was an extremely important figure. He was the leader of the legal division for NAACP. He’s crisscrossing the country, investigating the kind of treatment that black troops are receiving. And by in large, the way black troops were treated on this army bases in the south was horrendous. And Thurgood Marshall becomes one of the key investigators and advocates for these black soldiers. He’s taken the case to Washington D.C. Trying to fight the military leaders in the White House. And really force them to treat black Americans in a way that is equal to other troops who are serving the country. Thurgood Marshall later on investigates a mutiny case in Port Chicago, in California. And, again, does everything he can to try to make sure that the military justice system is treating black troops equally. And so, Marshall Green at this time period really does cut his teeth in terms of fighting for civil rights on behalf of black soldiers.

ISAACSON: One of the things that could’ve really helped racial justice in this country and pushed us more toward an equal opportunity was when everybody came home. And you have the G.I. Bill. And it says you can get a mortgage. It says, my dad, he can go to college because he had served. Why wasn’t the G.I. Bill something that helped equalize, helped serve all in our society?

DELMONT: So, the G.I. Bill was one of the most important pieces of legislation in American history. It enabled a hold generation of white veterans to be able to access longer (ph) mortgages, to be able to go to college, be able to serve businesses. It really helped them move into the middle class. Unfortunately, the way the policy was written, the — those benefits were distributed at the state level. This was intentional. Southern segregationist congressmen were key in shaping the G.I. Bill legislation. And they understood that by having it run at the state level that was going to enable states, particularly those in the south to discriminate against black veterans because they do —

ISAACSON: Although it happens — I mean, in Long Island where, you know, Levittown ends up being some — I mean, I just thought — maybe I’m defensive here but you look at every suburb in the north. You see what happened with the G.I. Bill, Levittown being one of the examples. And blacks can’t get mortgages.

DELMONT: Exactly, exactly, exactly. The — so, the construction of the legislation I think it’s largely due to southerners but you’re exactly right. That the way it’s implemented and the kind of discrimination by veteran’s face was a national story. That the ability to get mortgages in New Jersey and New York was almost impossible for black veterans. There are stories of black veterans in Chicago trying to get college tuition benefits of being funneled into vocational schools rather than to colleges. That has an extremely dire impact over the long term on the ability of black veterans and their families to generate wealth. There is a group of Brandeis (ph) who’s been tracking this and they say that over the course of the programs run, the benefits that black veterans received from the G.I. Bill were only about 40 percent of what white veterans received. That ended up being about $100,000 over the course of veterans’ lives. And you can appreciate what that means in terms of the vast racial wealth gaps we have in our country. The G.I. Bill and the discrimination that went along with it was one of the main causes of this kind of racial wealth gap that we have.

ISAACSON: So, tell me about the G.I. Bill Restoration Act. Who’s doing that? What would that do? And why is it having so much trouble getting passed?

DELMONT: So, the G.I. Bill Restoration Act is a legislation that was introduced last year by Representative Seth Moulton and James Clayborne in the House and Senator Raphael Warnock in the Senate. The bill would try to address this racial discrimination in terms of how the G.I. Bill was implemented. It would provide ongoing benefits to the families of World War II veterans. Enable them to be able to use some of these benefits that their fathers and grandfathers were denied. The descendants of World War II veterans could use benefits for mortgages or for college education. It’s a really important piece of legislation. I mean, because tri-state knowledge is really kind of fundamental wrong in our nation’s history. The G.I. Bill should have enabled this whole generation of black veterans to enter the middle class but unfortunately, it didn’t. This — the restoration act would acknowledge that and then try to take a step towards repairing it through financial compensation. The reason it is having trouble getting passed is that, honestly, a lot of things in Washington D.C. are fractured right now. And I think for too many — on the Republican side of the isle, they don’t see this is something that is important to their own constituents. I think what I would say to that is that this is something that’s good for the country. That black veterans served not a single party. They had served the nation. And so, this G.I. Bill Restoration Act is meant to write that wrong. And it’s something that is beneficial for the entirety of the country.

ISAACSON: Professor Matthew Delmont, thank you so much for joining us.

DELMONT: Thanks for having me.