October 21, 2022

> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY'.

YOU BURN BOOKS AND PERSON PEOPLE.

A WARNING, SHE SURVIVED THE HOLOCAUST AS A LITTLE GIRL.

NOW SHE JOINS ME TO SHARE HER EXTRAORDINARY TALE ALONG WITH CO-AUTHOR MALCOLM.

> ALSO AHEAD.

I FELT I HAD A MISSED BUT PEOPLE DID NOT CHOOSE.

A WOMAN AT THE HEART OF AMERICA'S STRUGGLE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

A LONG OVER DUE LOOK AT THE LIFE AND LOOK AT MRS. ROSA PARKS.

JOHANNA HAMILTON.

> IN TERMS OF PEOPLE.

AOL CO-FOUNDER TELLS WALTER ISIACSON TO BRING ENTREPRENEUR SHIP BACK TO AMERICA'S HEARTLAND.

> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLESHNER.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKI STRAUSS.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT TO NOT MISS WHAT IS IN FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA, WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP, RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

WAR CRIMES ARE A REALITY.

THE FAILED PROMISE OF NEVER AGAIN AFTER THE HOLOCAUST RINGING HALLOW TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND WITH FEWER HER SURVI -- SURVIVORS, TESTIMONIES LIKE FROM MY FIRST GUEST ARE MORE REAL.

SHE WAS SHIPPED AWAY WHEN SEVERAL MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY SURVIVED.

AT 84 SHE'S ONE OF THE YOUNGEST SURVIVORS OF THE NAZI EX TERMINATION CAMP.

SHE'S SHARING IT IN A MEMOIR CALLED ED 'THE DAUGHTER OF AUSCHWITZ.'

WE ARE JOINED ABOUT WHAT COMPELLED THEM TO TELL HER STORY NOW WITH ALL ITS PAINFUL DETAILS.

TOVA, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

CAN I JUST START BY ASKING YOU, I MEAN, THIS IS JUST MONUMENTAL, THE STORY, THE HISTORY AND THE WAY YOU HAVE SURVIVED TO TELL I IT.

WHAT MADE YOU AFTER ALL THESE YEARS PUT IT DOWN IN A BOOK?

I WANTED PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT PREJUDICE AND THE FEAR OF OTHER CAN CAUSE HUMANITY, THAT HUMANITY HAS TO BE CAREFUL HOW THEY BEHAVE TOWARDS EACH OTHER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE HOLOCAUST DIDN'T HAPPEN IN ONE DAY.

IT HAD TIME TO GET WORSE AND WORSE AND YOU KNOW THE SAYING, YOU FIRST BURN BOOKS AND THEN YOU BURN PEOPLE.

OH, THAT'S SO POWERFUL.

IT'S A WARNING.

IT'S A TYPE -- IT'S A TYPE OF A WARNING.

IT IS INDEED A WARNING AND A TIMELY ONE SO MALCOLM.

THAT IS SO PROFOUND.

WHAT TOVA SAYS IS IT DIDN'T HAPPEN OVER NIGHT.

IT TOOK MANY YEARS OF PLANNING THIS, OF WRITING HITLER'S WRI WRITINGS.

AS A JOURNALIST AND HISTORIAN, WHAT BROUGHT YOU INTO THIS?

SHE WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK.

WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.

WE CAN WRITE A BOOK FOR THE WORLD'S GRANDCHILDREN.

WHEN I TALKED TO THE FIRST PUBLISHER, SHE SAID WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS SOMEBODY WHO IS -- WE KNOW ABOUT ANN FRANK FOR EXAMPLE BUT TOVA IS TAKING ON THAT STORY AND I THINK TOVA IS A VERY HISTORICAL FIGURE.

WHEN I MET HER TWO YEARS AGO AT THE 75th ANNIVERSARY OF THE LIBERATION OF AUSCHWITZ, I REALIZED I WAS IN THE PRESENCE OF A HISTORICAL FIGURE AND I HOPE WE MANAGE TO SHOW PEOPLE WHY SHE IS THAT FIGURE AND WE TRY TO MAKE IT LIKE A SENSORY EXPERIENCE SO THAT YOU'RE WALKING IN TOVA'S SHOES THROUGH THE HOLOCAUST, NOT JUST AUSCHWITZ SO YOU SEE THE BUILDUP OF THE CONDITIONS THE PEOPLE OF HER TOWN IN CENTRAL POLAND FACED.

ONE OF THE REASONS FOR MEETING AND HAVING COMMEMORATION OF 75th UNIVERSITY IS TO REMEMBER.

NOT ONLY IS THE BOOK A WARNING TO WHAT MAY HAPPEN IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL BUT REMEMBER THOSE THAT WERE INNOCENT VICTIMS OF A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE PERIOD NOT TO FORGET THEM THE CHILDREN AND 6 MILLION INNOCENT CHILDREN WHO WERE MURDERED SO THERE WAS ANOTHER PART FOR MY WRITING IS REMEMBER THOSE WHO AREN'T HERE TO TELL THEIR STORY.

REMEMBER IN MEMORY FUNDAMENTAL TO THIS PROJECT AND THE IDEA OF HISTORY.

I WANT TO READ A LITTLE EX TRABLGT FROM THE BOOK IN WHICH, IN WHICH YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR TOWN THAT MALCOLM JUST MENTIONED.

OUT OF THE 13,000 JEWS RESIDENT IN 1939, JUST 200 WERE STILL BREATHING AT THE END OF THE WAR IN 1949.

ONLY FIVE WERE CHILDREN AND YOU WERE ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN.

I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING BECAUSE SOME OF THE MOST PAINFUL STUFF TO READ AND SOME OF THE STUFF I NEVER REALLY READ BEFORE IN THE EXAMINATION OF THE HOLOCAUST AND WHAT I'VE SEEN OF GENOCIDE SINCE IS THE CHILD'S EYE VIEW AND WHEN YOU SAY THAT WHEN YOU WENT THERE, YOU THOUGHT A SWASTICA WAS THE SIGHT OF WHAT EVERY JEWS WORE AND THE BURNING OF CORPSES.

TELL ME HOW IT WAS NORMALIZED FOR YOU.

THAT'S WHAT IS SO TERRIBLE ABOUT THE WHOLE THING, THAT YOU GET BORN INTO A CERTAIN SITUATION AND I KNEW NOTHING ELSE.

I DIDN'T KNOW FREEDOM.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS NOT TO BE HUNGRY AND SCARED AND THEN YOUR MIND SAYS OH, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE -- I USED TO THINK WHEN I WAS HIDDEN IN THAT ROOM, I THINK YOU READ ABOUT IT IN THE LABOR CAMP.

I SAID TO MYSELF I BETTER SURVIVE.

I THINK I'M THE ONLY JEWISH CHILD LEFT ON EARTH.

I THOUGHT THAT BEING JEWISH, BEING A CHILD WAS DEATH.

IT WAS A COMBINATION.

I JUST WENT THROUGH THIS MOTION OF LIVING EVERY HOUR, EVERY SINGLE HOUR WAS A TRIAL TO MAKE IT TO THE NEXT HOUR.

LET ME ASK MALCOLM BECAUSE WE COVERED THE BOSNIA WAR.

THAT WAS THE FIRST ADJUDICATED GENOCIDE AND WE COULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT WE WERE SEEING.

WHEN YOU HEAR AND HEARD THE STORIES, WHAT DID IT BRING BACK FOR YOU AND WHAT WERE YOU DETERMINED TO DO WITH THIS BOOK?

WELL, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO WHEN I HAD TO PUT MYSELF INTO TOV'S HEAD TO WRITE HER STORY, WHICH WAS QUITE A FEAT BECAUSE SHE WAS 6 YEARS OLD.

THE VOICE YOU HEAR IN A WAY THROUGHOUT THIS BOOK IS THE VOICE OF THE VOICE OF A CHILD AND THE WHY OF A WAR REPORTER SO IT'S THE SOUNDS AND SMELLS THAT I RECOGNIZED IN BOSNIA FOR EXAMPLE, SEEING THE 6,000 -- THE ARMY, THE SURVIVORS COMING OUT IN 1995, IF I DIG INTO MY MEMORY BANK, I CAN STILL SMELL THE SWEAT AND FEAR AS THEY COME OUT IN THE HOT SUMMER AND SEE THEIR SO TERRIFIED FACES AFTER WHAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH.

I REMEMBER SEEING MEMBER BEING BUSSED FROM THE SORT OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

IT'S THOSE FACES AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

THE WAR WE WENT THROUGH WAS NOTHING LIKE THIS SORT OF WAR THAT TOVA WENT THROUGH.

WE HAD ARMORED CARS AND FOOD BUT TOVA AS A CHILD HAD NOTHING AND THAT'S SOMETHING I FIND ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE.

HOW SHE MANAGED TO SURVIVE IS REALLY QUITE MIRACULOUS.

QUESYES, TOVA AND MALCOLM WA GETTING FURIOUS.

WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT GOING TO AUSCHWITZ AND HOW YOU SURV SURVIVED?

I REMEMBER PEOPLE ASKING ME BECAUSE I HAD THIS FAB MOUSE -- FABULOUS AND I REMEMBER THIS TRIP TO AUSCHWITZ WITHOUT FOOD AND DRINK AND NOT GOING TO THE BATHROOM, IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME AND OF COURSE, ARRIVING THERE AND THEN HAVING MY HAIR SHAVEN.

I HAD BRAIDS AND I REMEMBER HOW I WAS STANDING ON A BENCH AND I SAW MY BRAIDS FALLING TO THE FLOOR AND THEN MY HAIR GONE AND I WAS STANDING LATER ON ON THE FLOOR.

IT WAS SO MEMORABLE AND THE TATTOOING.

THESE ARE MOMENTS THAT EVERY CHILD PROBABLY OF EVERY -- YOU CAN'T HELP BUT REMEMBER THAT AND THAT -- I WAS ALWAYS WORRIED BY THE WAY THAT ALL MY STORY AND THE STORY OF ALL THAT HAPPENED WOULD DISAPPEAR BECAUSE I AM THE LAST GENERATION.

I AM THE LAST WITNESS IN A SENSE, MY GENERATION IS THE LAST WITNESS AND THEN PEOPLE LIKE MALCOLM HELPED WRITE THAT BOOK AND THAT MEANS OTHER PEOPLE WILL KNOW ABOUT IT AND THEN MY GRANDSON WHO BY THE WAY IS WITH ME, HE IS 17, AND HE IS SPREADING THE WORD TO HIS AGE GROUP.

YES.

ALL AROUND, MAYBE YOU READ ABOUT THE TIKTOK.

I DID.

THAT'S A LOT OF BOOKS.

WHAT'S GOING ON?

WHAT MADE HIM PUT ALL OF THIS ON TIKTOK?

HE'S BEEN SO INVOLVED.

IT STARTED WITH HIS CLASS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND IT SPREAD.

HE ANSWERS QUESTIONS AND HE'S GOT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE CALL -- BEING INTERESTED AND THAT MAKES ME FEEL THAT WE WILL NOT BE LOST, NOT ONLY WILL THOSE THAT WERE MURDERED WILL BE REMEMBERED BUT PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO ARE THE WITNESSES, THE LAST WITNESSES WILL ALSO BE REMEMBERED.

YOU HAVE 450,000 TIKTOK FOLLOWERS AND THAT'S JUST A REMARKABLE THING.

HI, THERE, YOU'VE DONE AN AMAZING THING FOR YOUR GRANDMOTHER AND FOR YOUR HISTORY.

TOVA, ASK HIM FOR ME HOW HIS CLASSMATES REACT.

SHE WANTS TO KNOW HOW DO YOUR CLASSMATES REACT?

YEAH, SO THEY'RE HONESTLY SURPRISED TO SEE SUCH A LARGE REACTION BECAUSE EVEN I DIDN'T EXPECT SO MANY PEOPLE TO BE INTERESTED IN THE HOLE CAST AND THE STUDIES AND IT REALLY MAKES ME HAPPY TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE OF MY GENERATION ARE INTERESTED IN SEEING THE HISTORY SO HER STORY WON'T BE FORGOTTEN.

WELL, THAT'S REALLY A WONDERFUL SERVICE AND I'M JUST GOING TO GO BACK TO MALCOLM FOR A SECOND.

WHEN YOU SEE THAT, THE MISSION IS ACCOMPLISHED OR ACCOMPLISHING.

WE REALLY ARE GETTING THE WORD OUT, THE STORY OUT.

TOVA'S GRANDSON DID A TREMENDOUS JOB BECAUSE HE'S BRINGING IT TO A YOUNGER AUDIENCE.

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LISTENING IN AND TOVA IS ANSWERING EVERYBODY'S QUESTIONS.

IT'S GREAT SHE'S EMBRACED NEW TECHNOLOGY AND THE THING IS JUST GOING BACK TO THE BOOK WHAT I WILL SAY ABOUT IT IS THIS IS AN ETERNAL STORY AND WHAT REALLY HAS GREAT RELEVANCE BECAUSE WE'RE WITNESSING NAZI-ISM AND FASCISM TAKING PLACE IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW AND WHAT THIS BOOK DOES AND WHAT TOVA'S STORY DOES IS SHOW WHAT REAL NAZI-ISM IS ABOUT.

TOVA EXPERIENCED WHAT REAL NAZI ISHM IS.

A SURVEY OF YOUNG AMERICANS BY JEWISH MATERIAL CLAIMS AGAINST GERMANY, THIS IS IN SEPTEMBER OF 2020 TWO-THIRDS OF THE PEOPLE INTERVIEWED HAD NO IDEA HOW MANY JEWS DIED IN THE HOLOCAUST.

ALMOST HALF COULDN'T NAME A CONCENTRATION CAMP OR GET TOE.

17% SAID IT WAS ACCEPTABLE TO HOLD NEO NAZI VIEWS.

THIS IS YOUNG AMERICANS IN 2020.

TOVA, I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING, YOU LIKE EVERY INMATE OF THESE HORRIBLE CAMPS WERE FORCIBLY AND YOU JUST SAID THAT AND YET, WHEN YOU CAME OUT A WELL MEANING DOCTOR OFFERED TO REMOVE YOUR TATTOO, WHAT DID YOU SAY?

I SAID TO THE DOCTOR, THAT WAS ONLY 12 BY THE WAY.

I SAID HAD IT BEEN TALTTTOOED O MY BROW WHERE EVERYBODY WOULD SEE AND I COULDN'T COVER IT UP, I WOULD NOT TAKE IT OFF BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

EVEN AT 12 I WANTED THE WORLD TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BUT NOBODY WAS INTERESTED.

YOU KNOW, IN THE '50s, NO ONE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

MY TEACHER SAID TO ME, COVER IT U UP.

DON'T SHOW IT TO NOBODY.

NOBODY NEEDS TO KNOW.

CONTINUE WITH YOUR LIFE.

THAT'S WHAT I TRIED TO DO BUT IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT.

I KNOW YOU BECAME A THERAPIST AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT HELPED YOU YOURSELF PROCESS ALL OF THIS BUT I KNOW THAT YOU TALK ABOUT GUILT AND PARTICULARLY YOUR BELOVED MOTHER.

YOU SAY THAT SHE HAD GUILT BECAUSE OF A TERRIBLE CHOICE THAT SHE HAD TO MAKE OR THAT SHE MADE ON THE SPOT WHILE IN AUSCHWITZ.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

YES, WE WERE ONLINE SOMEWHERE AND WE WERE -- THERE WAS THIS PERSON, THIS GUARD, A UNFORMED GERMAN GUARD AND PUT LEFT OR RIGHT.

PEOPLE WITH PAPERS WENT TO THE RIGHT, IT MEANS LIFE.

PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T HAVE PAPERS, WENT TO THE LEFT TO DEATH.

AND THE -- AND PMY MOTHER TOLD E THE STORY AND I REPRESENTEN PARTS OF IT BECAUSE I REMEMBER SEEING THE PERSON, HER SISTER WENT TO THE LEFT.

SHE DIDN'T HAVE ANY WORKING PAPERS.

MY FATHER DID.

SO SHE PUSHED HER TWO LITTLE CHILDREN, LITTLE GIRLS TO MY MOTHER.

SHE HOPED THAT MY MOTHER WILL SAVE THEM.

THEY WERE LIKE 4 OR 5.

THEY WERE LITTLE KIDS AND THEY HELD ON TO HER SKIRT.

THEY HELD ON TO HER.

AND MY MOTHER WAS SO SQUARED BECAUSE A FAMILY IN FRONT OF US WHO LIED ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY HAD IN THEIR GROUP WERE SENT IMMEDIATELY TO THE LEFT.

SO THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT SHE PUSHED AWAY HER LITTLE NIECES AND THEY WERE TAKEN TO THE LEFT TO DEATH TOGETHER WITH HER SISTER AND OTHER MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY.

SHE NEVER GOT OVER IT HER ENTIRE LIFE.

AND TO THE VERY END OF HER LIFE, SHE SAID I KILLED MY NIECES.

NO MATTER WHAT WE TRY TO TELL HER THAT YOU PROBLEMLY COULDN'T HAVE SAIFZED THEVED THEM, SHE B COULD SAVE ME.

SHE LIVED WITH SUCH GUILT THAT TO THE VERY -- SHE DIED AT THE AGE OF 45.

SHE LIVED WITH THAT.

SHE TALKED ABOUT IT DAILY.

TOVA, THESE ARE UNBEARABLE STORIES AND IT IS REMARKABLE.

YOUR MOTHER SAID TO YOU, REMEMBER WHEN YOU CAME OUT.

EXACTLY.

AND THEN WHEN SHE CAME BACK AND SHE SAW NOBODY CAME FROM HER FAMILY, NOBODY, NOT ONE PERSON, 150 PEOPLE WERE JUST MURDERED OR GASSED OR STARVED TO DEATH, ALL HER BROTHERS AND SISTERS, ALL THE NEPHEWS AND NIECES, EVERYBODY, THAT'S WHEN SHE REALLY FELL APART.

SHE HELD ON UNTIL WE WERE LIBERATED AND I WAS SAFE AND AFTER THAT, SHE HAD A VERY, VERY HARD TIME AND HER TERRIBLE GUILT THAT SHE SURVIVED.

LET ME ASK YOU A FINAL QUESTION.

YOU WERE MERCIFULLY VERY YOUNG.

DOES THAT MEAN YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE A LIFE WITH SOME JOY IN IT, HAPPINESS?

HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO -- OH --

ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

I WAS VERY LUCKY.

I MET MY HUSBAND MAYER WHO JUST DIED TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS ONLY 12.

AND I KNEW I'D MARRY HIM BECAUSE HE HAD ALL THE QUALITIES THAT I WANTED IN A PERSON AND WHEN I TOLD MY MOTHER, SHE LAUGHED.

SHE SAID REALLY?

I SAID REALLY.

WELL, AT 21 WE WERE MARRIED.

WE HAD FOUR CHILDREN.

I HAVE EIGHT GRANDCHILDREN.

AND THEY'RE ALL THE JOY OF MY LIFE.

AND I'M JUST SORRY THAT MAYER ISN'T HERE TO SORT OF PARTICIPATE IN MY SUCCESS AND HE WOULD HAVE LOVED THAT THIS BOOK IS DOING SO WELL BUT YES, I HAD A LOT OF JOY AND MY GRANDCHILDREN AND MY CHILDREN ARE JUST FABULOUS.

ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS.

SO I'M VERY, VERY GRATEFUL.

WELL, I BET MAYER IS LOOKING DOWN ON YOU --

GRATEFUL FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO FORCE US TO REMEMBER AND KEEP YOUR STORIES IN THE PUBLIC AND FOR YOUR GRANDSON, WHO IS DOING IT, TOO, MALCOLM, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MALCOLM, TOVA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU ARE.

AND INDEED, WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR TOVA'S TESTIMONY AND WARNINGS AND FOR HER SPIRIT.

NEXT, WE TURN TO MEMORY AND THE STRUGGLE FOR HARD ONES, CIVIL RIGHTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

STATE OF GEORGIA RECENTLY MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO VOTE THROUGH THE MAIL AND THAT'S AN EFFORT DISPROPORTIONATELY TARGETING PEOPLE OF COLOR IN THE MID MATTERM ELECTIONS BUT THIS THERE WERE RECORD NUMBERS OF EARLY IN PERSON VOTERS.

WE WANT TO FOCUS ON ROSA PARKS BACK IN 1955.

SHE REFUSED TO MOVE TO THE BACK OF A CITY BUS IN MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA, AN ACT OF PEACEFUL PROTEST THAT LED TO THE DESEGREGATION OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AND CHANGED THE COURSE OF HISTORY.

NOW HER INCREDIBLE LEGACY IS THE FOCUS OF THE NEW DOCUMENTARY, 'THE REBELLIOUS LIFE OF MR MRS. ROSA PARKS'.

I HAD A MESSAGE BUT PEOPLE REFUSED TO LISTEN.

WE ALL UNDERSTOOD SHE SAT DOWN ON THE BUS.

THE POLICEMAN SAID I THINK YOU SHOULD STAND UP.

I SAID I DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE TO STAND UP.

THE NARRATIVE OF HER ON ONE DAY DID SOMETHING.

COULDN'T BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

OFTEN THE MAN IS OUT FRONT AND YOU NEVER HEAR ABOUT THE WOMAN, THE REVERSE IS TRUE.

I SPOKE TO THE CO-DIRECTORS ABOUT NEW DISCOVERIES OF A VERY WELL-KNOWN WOMAN.

JOHANNA HAMILTON, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

LET ME START WITH YOU.

HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THIS?

WAS THE IDEA?

IT'S A LONG OVER DUE RECOGNITION.

RIGHT.

IT STARTED BACK IN FEBRUARY 2019.

I WAS HAVING MY MORNING COFFEE LOOKING AT TWITTER AND I FOLLOWED GENE HARRIS, THE HISTORIAN WHOSE BOOK WE ULTIMATELY USED TO MAKE THE FILM.

AS I WAS SCHOOLING THROUGH, IT WAS MRS. PARKS' BIRTHDAY, FEBRUARY 4th AND SHE PUT OUT A TWITTER THREAD WITH A WHOLE SLEW OF FACTS I DIDN'T KNOW AND SO I SORT OF WOKE ME OUT OF MY MORNING DAYS WONDERING, I CONSIDER MYSELF WELL INFORMED AND LOVED HISTORY.

I DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THESE THINGS.

ONE FACT.

GIVE ME ONE FACT.

THE FACT WHEN SHE WAS 6 YEARS OLD, SHE WAS SITTING ON THE STOOP OF HER GRANDPARENTS HOME WITH HER GRANDFATHER WHO HAD A RIFLE, WHO WAS PROTECTING HIS HOME AGAINST THE POSSIBLE KLU KLUX KLAN INVASION.

6 YEARS OLD IS WHERE IT STARTED FOR HER.

THAT'S FASCINATING.

YOU HAVE DONE A LOT OF DOCUMENTARY WORK IN THIS WHOLE COMMUNITY IN CIVIL RIGHTS.

WHAT WAS YOUR CONNECTION TO THIS PROJECT AND WHAT DID YOU NOT KNOW ABOUT ROSA PARKS?

YEAH, WELL, WHEN JOHANNA CONTACTED ME ABOUT THIS, ABOUT COLLABORATING WITH HER, I WAS IMMEDIATELY INTREESED.

I READ THE BOOK AND I LIKE JOHANNA WAS SHOCKED THAT A, THERE HAD NEVER BEEN A FULL LENGTH DOCUMENTARY ABOUT ROSA PARKS AND HOW MUCH I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT HER FULL STORY.

FOR EXAMPLE, HOW SHE GOT TO DETROIT, THE BACKLASH THAT OCCURRED WHEN SHE -- AFTER THE BUSBOY COT.

I HAD NO IDEA.

I KNEW SHE SPENT MOST OF HER LIFE IN DETROIT BUT I DIDN'T KNOW WHY, HOW SHE GOT THERE, WHAT WERE THE RAMIFICATIONS AND CONSEQUENCES FOR HER ACT ON THE MONTGOMERY STAND ON THE BUS.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT AS WE GO THROUGH THE STORY BUT SIT AN EXTRAORDINARY THING THAT SHE DID.

THERE WERE RAMIFICATIONS, NEGATIVE RAMIFICATIONS.

DO YOU THINK IT WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN SHE DIDN'T GET THE SAME KIND OF CORRECT BIOGRAPHY IN PUBLIC THAT ALL THE OTHERS HAVE HAD?

I DO THINK SO.

I THINK UNEQUIVOCALLY.

WE HAVE THIS WONDERFUL QUOTE IN THE FILM FROM REF -- REVEREND JOANIE WATSON.

SHE SAID LOOK THROUGH HISTORY AND GET THE DIRECTORS, THE PRESIDENTS WHO ARE MEN, HOWEVER IF YOU LOOK A MILLIMETER BEHIND YOU SEE WOMEN.

TO THAT END, I'LL PLAY THIS CLIP.

DR. KING ENDS UP GETTING THE ACCOLADES.

HE'S INVITED EVERYWHERE TO SPEAK.

MAKES MONEY.

SURVIVES.

HE'S A HERO.

CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS WOULD HAVE HER GO SPEAK AT EVENTS AND RAISE MONEY TO BE SUPPORTED.

I THINK PART OF THE WAY SHE WAS TRE TREATED WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN.

DO YOU FEEL SHE FELT THAT?

DID SHE FEEL THE SEXISM IN HER LIFE AND DURING THE STRUGGLE?

LET'S REMEMBER THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER WOMEN BESIDES MRS. PARKS THAT DIDN'T GET ACCOLADES.

WE KNOW IT WAS SEXISM WAS A HUGE PART OF THE REASON AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD FOR ME, SHE KNEW SHE WASN'T, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE GIVEN THE TIME AND SHE WAS SIDELINED AND WE WERE ABLE TO SEE VERY CLEARLY HOW THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS PATRIOT AND SEXIST BUT AT THE TIME, I WOULD IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, THAT IT MAY BE HARD TO USE THOSE TERMS WHEN YOU'RE FIGHTING LITERALLY FOR YOUR LIFE AND FOR YOUR RACE AND THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, BEEN THE PRIORITY IN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO I HESITATE TO SAY THAT SHE, YOU KNOW, SAW IT THAT BUT WE DO KNOW THAT SHE FELT SIDELINED AT TIMES.

IT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO HEAR YOU SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO GO BACK USING A LENS OF TODAY TO JUDGE THE SITUATION THEN.

BUT HOW ABOUT THEN ROSA PARKS THE FIGHTER?

HER GREAT NEPHEW SAYS SHE WAS A SOLDIER SINCE BIRTH.

BRIAN STEPHENSON SAID SHE RAN AT A FASTER PACE THAN CONTEMPORARIES.

WE KNEW HOW MUCH SHE ADMIRED MALCOLM X.

THAT WAS A REVEAL.

THE FACT SHE WAS REALLY CLOSER TO MALCOLM X THAN MARTIN LUTHER KING, SHE ADORED MARTIN LUTHER KING AND WAS INCREDIBLY PROUD OF THE ROLE HE STEPPED INTO DURING THE BOYCOTT BECAUSE THAT WAS HIS COMING OUT PARTY.

SUPER PROUD OF HIM BUT AND THEN WHAT HE BECAME BUT YES, ULTIMATELY SHE CAME TO ADMIRE MALCOLM X.

I FIND THAT FASCINATING.

HOW MUCH DOES THAT RESONATE WITH YOU?

DID YOU KNOW THAT ABOUT ROSA PARKS, HOW RADICAL SHE WAS?

I DID NOT KNOW THAT ABOUT ROSA PARKS.

WHAT I DID KNOW IS SELF-DEFENSE HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE BLACK FREEDOM STRUGGLE.

PEOPLE WANT TO MINIMIZE IT.

THEY WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW NOT HISTORY BOOKS LOOK BACK BUT THAT WAS, THAT'S NOT THE WAY WE SURVIVED IN THIS COUNTRY AND FOUGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS.

SO THE -- WE'VE ALWAYS HAD MULTIPLE STRATEGIES FOR FIGHTING FOR OUR RIGHTS AND FOR FIGHTING TO STAY ALIVE.

THAT FACT THAT SHE WAS WITH HER GRANDFATHER AS HE DEFENDED HIS HOUSE AGAINST THE KKK WHEN SHE WAS EVER YEARS OLD.

MY GRANDFATHER WAS GOING TO DEFEND HIS HOME WHATEVER HAPPENED.

I WANTED TO SEE HIM SHOOT THAT GUN.

THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT STANCE OF SELF-DEFENSE WAS THROUGHOUT HER LIFE.

THAT'S WHY SHE SUPPORTED THE BLACK PANTHERS, MALCOLM X, THE REPUBLIC OF NEW AFRICA, THESE WERE RADICAL GROUPS OR CONSIDERED RADICAL, I SAY RADICAL QUOTE UNQUOTE ABOUT DEFENDING THEMSELVES.

JUST TO HIGHLIGHT THAT, OBVIOUSLY FOCUSED ON MANY WOMEN DID IN THE MOVEMENT, VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK WOMEN, POLICE BRUTALITY, THE WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS OF BLACK AMERICANS AT THE TIME AND OBVIOUSLY, THAT STILL HAPPENS BUT I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT EVIDENCES THAT YOU PUT IN THIS FILM ABOUT HER, YOU KNOW, HER STRENGTH IN THIS REGARD.

SHE TELLS A STORY IN THE FILM ABOUT A NEAR SEXUAL ASSAULT.

SHE'S WORKING AS A MADE, A HOUSEKEEPER IN A PUBLIC INSTITUTION AND A WHITE MAN WHO SHE'S WORKING FOR PUT HIS HANDS ON HER AND SHE SAID QUOTE, I'D NEVER YIELD TO THIS WHITE MAN'S BESTIALITY.

I WAS READY AND WILLING TO DIE IF HE WANTED TO KILL ME AND RAPE A DEAD BODY HE WAS WELCOME BUT HE'D HAVE TO KILL ME FIRST.

I HONESTLY, THAT IS SO POWERFUL.

SHE WAS IN HER LATE TEENS WHEN THAT HAPPENED TO HER.

SHE WROTE ABOUT IT SUBSEQUENTLY.

PEOPLE WOULD INEVITABLY ALWAYS ONLY ASK HER ABOUT THE MOMENT ON THE BUS.

INTERVIEWERS WOULD VERY RARELY FOLLOW UP TO KNOW WHAT ELSE HAPPENED IN HER LIFE.

WHEN SHE MOVED TO DETROIT.

SHE HELPED GET JOHN CONYERS ELECTED.

SHE WORKED FOR HIM FOR 25 YEARS.

NOBODY ASKED HERB ABO ABOUT HER AND THE LEGISLATIVE WORK EVER.

JUST REMIND US WHAT MADE HER WANT TO GO TO NEW YORK.

AFTER THE BOYCOTT WHICH WAS A LITTLE MORE THAN A YEAR, SHE LOST HER JOB IMMEDIATELY AND HER HUSBAND LOST HIS JOB AND WITH THE SUCCESS, THERE WERE THREATS AGAINST HER LIFE AND HER FAMILY'S LIFE AND THERE WAS MONEY AND THEY COULDN'T GET A JOB AND THEY HAD TO GET HER OUT OF THERE AND SO HER FAMILY MEMBERS IN DETROIT, HER BROTHER HAD GONE TO DETROIT SEVEN YEARS BEFORE AND THEY SAID, YOU KNOW THEY SAID COME HERE WHERE WE CAN HELP YOU AND WHERE YOU'LL HAVE FA FAMILY.

IT WASN'T NIRVAN SHRKS SHE FOUND OUT.

ALL KIND OF RUMORS SNUCK OUT SHE'S A NAACP, SHE HAS A CAR, SHE'S A MEXICAN, SHE'S NOT FROM MONT MONTGOMERY.

WE DON'T OFTEN WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE REPRISALS OR CONSEQUENCES AND HOW PEOPLE MAKE PERSONAL SACRIFICES IN ORDER TO ADVANCE A BROADER MOVEMENT.

AFTER THE INCIDENT I WORKED FIVE WEEKS THROUGH DECEMBER AND THEN DISCHARGED FROM MY JOB IN JAN JANUARY.

IT'S SO SAD TO SEE THIS SIDELINING AND ON THE BREAD LINE AT ONE PIECE OF DOCK MEMBER MEN T -- DOCUMENTARY, ONE YEAR HER AND HER HUSBAND ONLY MADE $700 AND NOBODY THERE REALLY PITCHED IN OR GATHERED AROUND TO HELP THEM.

HOW DID SHE AND MR. PARKS SURVIVE?

WELL, THEY RELIED ON FAMILY MEM MEMBERS.

SHE DID EVENTUALLY GET A JOB.

THERE IS AN ARTICLE IN 'JET MAGAZINE' THAT SAID THE LOST FORGOTTEN WOMAN AND AFTER THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE DID OBTAIN A JOB IN KIND OF A FACTORY LIKE A SWEATSHOP IS WHAT JEAN SAYS, THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK AND THEN SHE FINALLY GETS A JOB WORKING WITH JOHN CONYERS, SHE HELPS HIM GET ELECTED AND THEN HE HIRES HER AND THAT'S HER FIRST JOB WITH HEALTH INSURANCE, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY ALSO HAD HEALTH PROBLEMS, BOTH OF THEM, AND THAT'S HER FIRST SECURE POLITICAL JOB, YOU KNOW, THIS IS MANY YEARS AFTER THE BOYCOTT WITH HEALTH INSURANCE WITH SOME SECURITY.

OF COURSE, JOHN CONYERS, THE CONGRESSMAN FROM MICHIGAN.

I WAS FASCINATED BY ONE OF YOUR INTERVIEWS, ACTIVIST ASHLEY HENDERSON WHO SAID THE MONTGOMERY BUSB BOYCOTT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT IN HISTORY.

I THINK SOCIAL MOVERM MOVEMENTS COULD UNDERSTAND WE'D WIN EVERYTHING.

THAT IS CRUCIAL TESTIMONY AND CRUCIAL STATEMENTS FOR TODAY'S STRUGGLE.

FROM THE UNITED STATES BLACK LIVES MATTER BEFORE, BEYOND FROM THE PALESTINIANS, FROM THE SOUTH AFRICANS, FROM WHATEVER YOU MIGHT SAY WHO ARE STRUGGLING FOR THEIR RIGHTS, NONE HAS CREATED SUCH A DRAMATIC PROGRESS AS THE BUSBOY COT.

THIS PEACEFUL ECONOMIC BOY COLT.

DO YOU EVER ASK YOURSELF WHY IN THE UNITED STATES OR ELSEWHERE?

IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S NOT BRAIN SURGERY ANYMORE.

THE TEMPLATE IS THERE.

I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY NOT.

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS INTERESTING IN THE BUSBOY COT, THE COMMUNITY, THE MONTGOMERY COMMUNITY REALLY CAME TOGETHER AND THEY HAD -- THEY ORGANIZED CARPOOLS, TAXI DISPATCHES, WOMEN LED IT.

MAYBE THAT'S IT.

WOMEN WERE AT THE FAR FRONT BECAUSE IT WAS THE WOMEN WHO WERE GETTING ON THE BUS AND GOING TO WORK AS MADS AND DOMESTICS AND THEY WERE THE ONES WHO WERE LEADING THE BOYCOTT.

SO MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE WOMEN-LED BOYCOTTS AND WE WOULD BE JUST AS SUCCESSFUL.

I REMEMBER VERY, VERY WELL AS YOU SAY WHEN WE MUST ISN'T GIVE IT SHORT SHRIFT BUT THE WOMEN IN LIBERIA LED THE MEN DURING THE STRUGGLE AGAINST THE DICTATOR WAS THERE.

THAT WAS A POINT WOMEN LED STRUGGLES.

THEY ARE THE LEADERS.

SHE GAVE A SPEECH IN CLEVELAND WHERE SHE SAYS THE PHDs AND THE NO Ds CAME TOGETHER IN MONTGOMERY SO IT WAS ACROSS CLASS BOUNDARIES, WHICH WE DON'T TALK ABOUT VERY MUCH.

I GUESS FINALLY, HER FUNERAL IN 2005 WAS ALMOST LIKE A STATE EVENT.

THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND DIG TAR TARRIES.

ROSA PARKS ACT OF D DISOBEDIENCE, THE TIRED FEET OF THOSE WHO WALKED THE DUS TU ROADS OF MONTGOMERY SEE THAT TO WHICH IT HAD ONCE BEEN BLIND.

IT IS BECAUSE OF THESE MEN AND WOMEN THAT I STAND HERE TODAY.

OF COURSE, THE ICONIC PICTURE OF OBAMA IN ROSA PARKS' SEAT ON THAT BUS, YOU KNOW, AS A COMMEMORATION BUT AGAIN, ROSA PARKS SAID AND I THINK THIS STILL RESONATES, FRANKLY, THERE WAS A POPULAR PHRASE THEN STAY IN YOUR PLACE.

WHEN YOU STAYED IN YOUR PLACE, YOU WERE STILL MISTREATED AND THAT IS STILL GOING ON IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY.

ALL THE NAMES OF BLACK LIVES MATTER AND BEYOND AND BEFORE IT JUST IS A REALITY.

WHAT DO YOU HOPE THIS FILM WILL DO?

WE HOPE THE FILM ACTUALLY BREAKS WHAT PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID THAT IT WASN'T A SINGULAR ACT, THAT IT WASN'T TIRED FEET, THAT THIS WAS A WOMAN WHO DEDICATED HER LIFE TO THE BLACK FREEDOM STRUGGLE AND DID WORK, INCREDIBLE WORK AND INCREDIBLE RISK BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER THE BUSBOY COT.

SO WE HOPE THIS FILM TAKES, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE BUSBOY COT IS INCREDIBLY SIGNIFICANT AND IMPORTANT BUT REALLY, THE TO TOTALITY OF HER WORK AND HER LIFE IS WHAT WE WANT THE VIEWERS TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE REMARKABLE ROSA PARKS.

AND YOU?

ABSOLUTELY.

OFF WHAT SHE WAS SAYING, WE HOPE IT INSPIRING.

WE OFTEN HEAR AND SHE'S BEEN PLACED ON THIS PEDESTAL IN MAKING THE FILM OUR CHALLENGE WE WANT FOR PEOPLE HAD COURAGE IT TOOK TO SHOW UP TO DO THE WORKDAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AND YOU KNOW --

STILL NEEDS THAT WORK.

WE STAND AT EXACTLY PER SIP HARD TIMES.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

> THE DOCUMENTARY IS NOW STREAMING ON THE PEACOCK PLATFORM.

IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT REMINDER OF THE COURAGE AND DETERMINATION NEEDED TO EFFECT CHANGE.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS DEVOTED TO A MORE EQUAL AMERICA IN HIS CASE THROUGH BUSINESS INNOVATION.

ENTREPRENEUR STEVE CASE TRAVELED ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO PROMOTE STARTUPS, AWAY FROM TRADITIONAL INVESTOR CITIES FROM HIS NEW BOOK 'RISE OF THE REST' BASED ON THE NATIONWIDE TOUR OF THE SAME AND WHY HE'S OPTIMISTIC ABOUT AMERICA'S FUTURE.

THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, WALTER.

YOU WERE HERE TALKING IN 2018 ABOUT THE RISE OF THE BUS TOUR YOU WERE DOING.

YOU CAME HERE TO NEW ORLEANS AND PUT ON A MARDI GRAS COSTUME AND HEARD PITCH CONTESTS.

TELL ME WHAT CHANGED SINCE THEN NOW THAT WE HAD THE PANDEMIC AND DIDN'T THINGS THAT HAPPENED.

WE'RE DOING THIS WORK FOR A DECADE TRYING TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND CELEBRATE ENTREPRENEUR SSHIP ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN STARTUPS AND THE REASON THAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT MOST OF THE NEW JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CREATED BY NEW COMPANIES, NOT BY SMALL BUSINESS AND BIG BUSINESS BUT NOW BUSINESS, COMPANIES UNDER FIVE YEARS.

WE NEED TO BACK BUSINESS AND THAT WILL LET US HIT THE ROAD WITH OUR TOUR, THE FIRST ONE RIGHT YEARS AGO.

WE WERE IN NEW ORLEANS FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO AND WE HAVE DONE DOZENS OF THESE CITY VISITS WE HAVE INVESTMENTS IN 100 DIFFERENT U.S. CITIES.

IT'S REALLY REMARKABLE THE MOMENTUM BUILDING IN STARTUPS AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF DOZENS OF STARTUP CITIES.

THERE IS TOO MUCH ATTENTION FOCUSED ON SILICON VALLEY.

THE PANDEMIC IS A TIPPING POINT.

IT'S LEAD TO DISBURSEMENT OF TALENT, SOME PEOPLE LEAVING TO GO TO PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AND LED TO A DISBURSEMENT AND LOOKING AT OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

SO IT REALLY BODES WELL FOR THIS NEXT CHAPTER OF AMERICAN INNOVATION.

I THINK IT WILL BE LESS ABOUT A FEW PLACES LIKE SILICON VALLEY AND MUCH MORE DISBURSED THAT WILL BE GREAT FOR ENTREPRENEURS AND CITIES AND GREAT FOR THE COUNTRY, AS WELL.

WHAT COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE DO HEARTLAND CITIES HAVE SOMETIMES OVER COASTAL CITIES?

THERE ARE SOME BASIC ONES, THE COST OF LIVING AND COST OF OPERATING A COMPANY IS QUITE A BITL LESS THAN BIG SUPER STAR CITIES.

THEY ARE RAISING THE MONEY.

THE MONEY GOES TWO OR THREE TIMES FURTHERER TO HIRE PEOPLE AND INVEST AND GROW THE COMPANY.

THERE ARE SOME ASPECTS LIKE THAT AND CONSIDERATIONS PEOPLE HAVE AROUND LIFESTYLE ISSUES OR FAMILY ISSUES AND REASONS PEOPLE WANT TO BE IN ANOTHER CITY.

THE MOST IMPORTANT STARTING TO REALLY DEVELOP WHY I PROFILE SO MANY COMPANIES UNTIL THE BOOK, CITIES REALLY ADVANTAGE THE COMPANIES IN TERMS OF LOCATION.

I'LL GIVE YOU A COUPLE EXAMPLES THERE IS A COMB PAN KNEE IN CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE CALLED FREIGHT WAVES THAT DEVELOPED THE PLATFORM LIKE A BLOOMBERG DATA PLATFORM FOR TRUCKING AND LOGISTICS.

MOST OF THE BIG TRUCKING COMPANIES IN AMERICA ARE HEAD QUARTERED IN CHATTANOOGA SO IF YOU'RE BUILDING A PLATFORM, THAT'S THE BEST PLACE TO BE, NOT SILICON VALLEY, CHATTANOOGA.

CARTER WAS IN SAN FRANCISCO WORKING FOR A HEDGE FUND WHEN HE CAME UP FOR ACRE TRADER, A PLATFORM TO INVEST.

HE SAID IF I GET FARMERS TO PUT THEIR FARMS ON OUR PLATFORM, I NEED TO BUILD TRUST AND A BETTER WAY TO DO THAT IS NOT BE IN SAN FRANCISCO SO HE MOVED TO FAYETTEVILLE, NORTHWEST ARKANSAS AND LAUNCHED THE COMPANY SCALING QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY.

IT WAS BETTER FOR HIM TO BE IN ARKANSAS, NOT CALIFORNIA.

THERE ARE MORE AND MORE EXAMPLES OF THAT THAT I PROFILE IN THE BOOK THAT BODES WELL FOR THE NEXT 10 OR 20 YEARS AS CAPITAL FLOWS AND TALENT DISBURSES AND YOU'RE BUILDING ON THE INDUSTRY EXPERTISE SO DOMAIN EXPERTISE IS SO IMPORTANT IN THESE INDUSTRIES IN THE FUTURE THAT WILL ADVANTAGE THE RISE.

MORE COMPANIES WILL START IN SCALE, MORE JOBS WILL BE CREATED, MORE ECONOMIC GROWTH WILL BE DRIVEN FORWARD TO HELP THE COMMUNITIES AND REALLY HELP THE COUNTRY.

I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT LESS THAN 1% OF VENTURE CAPITAL GOES TO BLACK STARTUPS.

WHAT CAN YOU DO TO TAKE ON THAT REALLY SHOCKING NUMBER?

IT'S VERY TROUBLING AND SOBERING.

I TALK A LOT ABOUT THE 75% GOING TO THREE STATES.

IF YOU LOOK AT PEOPLE, IT'S EVEN MORE TROUBLING AS YOU SAY BLACK AMERICANS ARE 13% OF OUR POPULATION, BLACK FOUNDERS GETLESS THAN 1% OF VENTURE CAPITAL OR 18% OF OUR POPULATION GET LESS THAN 2%. WOMEN ARE 50% OF OUR POPULATION, FEMALE FOUNDERS GETLESS THAN 10% OF VENTURE CAPITAL SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA IT DOES MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE AND DOES MATTER WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE.

IF YOU HAVE AN IDEA OR SHOT OF BUILDING A COMPANY OR SHOT AS RAISING THE VENTURE CAPITAL, WE'RE TRYING TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD WITH PLACE AND PEOPLE AND THE DIVERSEITY AND W THINK ABOUT INNOVATION AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DO WITH THE BUS TOUR.

PEOPLE PITCHING ON STAGE OF DIVERSITY OF THE COMMUNITY WE'RE IN AS A RESULT AND OUR DIVERSE FOUNDERS.

WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS BUT THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.

ONE OF THE MAJOR CHANGES HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY NOW IS A FEELING THAT GLOBALIZATION AND THE OUTSOURCING OF EVERYTHING AND PUTTING SUPPLY CHAINS ALL THE WAY FROM MALAYSIA TO INDONESIA TO VIETNAM TO THE UNITED STATES TURNED OUT TO BE VERY PROBLEMATIC.

RELYING ON CHINA AND TAIJUAN FOR OUR BATTERIES AND CHIPS TURNED OUT TO BE PROBLEMATIC AND WITH THE CHIPS ACT AND OTHER THINGS WE SHOULD UNSURE THEM AND BRING MANUFACTURING BACK TO AMERICA.

DO YOU THINK AS YOU GO AROUND THAT EVEN MANUFACTURING AND THINGS LIKE THAT COULD RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES?

ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S BEEN BUILDING OVER THE LAST DECADE AND WILL ACCELERATE BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC FOR THE REASON AND OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH RELYING ON OTHERS, WE SAW THAT IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC WITH A CHALLENGE OF GETTING BASIC MEDICAL SUPPLIES THAT WE NEEDED.

THAT WAS A WAKEUP CALL THAT LET MORE PEOPLE TO SAY WE NEED TO HAVE SUPPLY CHAINS CLOSER TO WHERE WE ARE AND SAW THE IMPORTANCE OF SEMI CONDUCTORS AND RELYING ON TAIJUAN WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO BRING SEMI CONDUCTORS AND HAVING MORE THINGS BUILT IN AMERICA AND HELPS BECAUSE WE'RE CREATING MORE JOBS IN MORE PARTS OF AMERICA AND IN SOMEWAYS IT'S DYNAMIC BUT ROBOTIC TECHNOLOGY MADE IT EASIER TO MANUFACTURE IN THIS COUNTRY MORE COST EFFECTIVELY.

YES, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME NUMBER OF JOBS BUT IT DOES ALLOW YOU TO DO THINGS YOU COULDN'T DO MAYBE TEN OR 20 YEARS AGO.

I WAS TOURING LAST MONTH THE PLANT IN ILLINOIS.

HIGHLY AUTOMATED BUT 5,000 EMPLOYEES THERE.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT LEVEL OF EMPLOYMENT IN THAT NORMAL ILLINOIS AREA UNTIL THEY CAME.

SO YES, THERE IS A LOT OF AUTOMATION, YES, THE WAY CARS ARE BEING BUILT OR IN THEIR CASE TRUCKS IS DIFFERENT FROM THE WAY CARS WERE BEING BUILT A HALF CENTURY AGO BUT LAUNCHING IN THAT AREA OF ILLINOIS HAS REALLY BEEN A CATALYST IN TERMS OF JOB CREATION THERE AND WE'RE SEEING THAT NOW ACROSS THE COUNTRIES.

A LOT OF THE MOVE YOU'VE BEEN ENCOURAGING AND TALKING ABOUT, AWAY FROM FOCUSSING ON SILICON VALLEY IN THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA, FOCUSSING ON THE NORTHEAST ATLANTIC COAST MEANS THAT COMPANIES ARE MOVING TO PLACES LIKE TEXAS, FLORIDA AND OTHER RED STATES.

AND SUDDENLY, THAT'S GETTING WRAPPED UP INTO POLITICS WITH ABORTION AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

DO YOU THINK EITHER FOUNDERS OR HEADS OF COMPANY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE POLITICS OF STATES OR IS THAT SOMETHING THEY CAN IGNORE?

NO, DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THAT.

I THINK A LOT OF ENTREPRENEURS WILL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION DECIDING WHERE TO SCALE THEIR COMPANY, SOME WILL BE LOOKING FOR DOMAIN EXPERTISE THAT MAY POWER THAT INNOVATION IN A PARTICULAR INDUSTRY OR PARTNERSHIPS OR HEALTHCARE SECTOR OR FOOD OR AGRICULTURE THAT MIGHT ACCELERATE THE GROWTH WILL BE ONE FACTOR.

SOME WILL LOOK AT THE COST OF LIVING AND COST OF OPERATION BENEFITS AND LIFESTYLE AMENITIES AND SOME WILL LOOK AT THE TAX RATES.

I DO THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT SOCIAL ISSUES INCLUDING ABORTION.

THAT MAY BE A FACTOR THAT BOTH ENTREPRENEURS DECIDING WHERE TO START AND SCALE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL AS PEOPLE THINKING OF MOVING TO STATES THAT MIGHT GIVE THEM A PAUSE DEPENDING ON WHAT THEIR POLICIES ARE.

HOPEFULLY, THE POLICY MAKERS IN STATES TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT RECOGNIZE THERE IS THAT ASPECT TO WHERE THERE COULD BE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES TO SOME POLICIES BEING CONSIDERED.

I'VE KNOWN YOU FOR 40 YEARS BUT NEVER KNOWN YOUR POLITICS.

YOU WORKED FOR DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED AS AN ADVISOR IN ALMOST EVERY ADMINISTRATION.

TELL ME, YOU SAID EARLIER THAT THIS COULD HELP KNIT US TOGETHER, HELP GET RID OF SOME OF THE POISON IN OUR DIVISIVE POL POLITICS.

TELL ME HOW.

THEY ARE COMPLICATED AND MULTI FACETED.

ONE PIECE OF IT IS THIS IDEA I MENTIONED BEFORE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY DO FEEL LEFT OUT AND LEFT BEHIND.

THE INNOVATION ECONOMY HAS LEFT THEM BEHIND AND THINGS WE CELEBRATE FEEL DISCONNECTED FROM.

THEY DON'T SEE BENEFITS TO THEIR FAMILY, TO THEIR COMMUNITY OF THOSE COMPANIES SCALING.

AND PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THIS NOTION THAT ENTREPRENEURS ARE ON THE COAST OR INVESTORS ARE ONLY BACKING ENTREPRENEURS ON THE COST AND IF WE CAN LAUNCH AND SCALE MORE NEW COMPANIES THAT ARE CREATING MORE NEW JOBS IN MORE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IT DOES CREATE MORE OF A SENSE OF HOPE AND POSSIBILITY.

A GREAT EXAMPLE, LAST WEEK I WAS IN DETROIT.

THE FIRST STOP OF THE FIRST BUS TOUR EIGHT YEARS AGO.

AT THE TIME DETROIT WAS STRUGGLING.

THE YEAR BEFORE WE WERE THERE.

IT CITY OF DETROIT WENT BANKRUPT BUT NOW IT'S HAPPENING IN DOWNTOWN DETROIT.

IT'S VIE BBRANT.

BUILDINGS THAT WERE EMPTY ARE NOW FULL AND THERE IS A SENSE OF HOPE AND POSSIBILITY IN A CITY THAT STRUGGLED FOR HALF A CENTURY.

IT BECAUSE OF THE STARTUPS, BECAUSE OF THE ENTREPRENEURS AND BECAUSE OF THE INVESTORS BACKING THOSE ENTREPRENEURS IN PLACES LIKE DETROIT.

WE NEED TO GET MORE INVESTORS SITTING IN NEW YORK AND SAN FRANCISCO TO BE LOOKING AT OPPORTUNITIES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THEY'LL FIND THE INVESTMENT RETURNS ARE COMPARABLE TO WHAT THEY COULD GET ON BACKING THE ENTRA PAUR NE -- ENTREPRENEURS IN SILICON VALLEY.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO RAN YOUR FUND, ONE OF YOUR FUNDS IN OHIO WAS J.D. VANCE.

HE'S GOTTEN VERY MUCH INTO POLITICS.

IS GETTING INTO POLITICS A GOOD THING WHEN YOU TRY TO DO STUFF LIKE THIS?

NOT A GOOD THING FOR ME.

I TRIED TO STAY OUT OF POLITICS FOR SEVERAL DECADES AND FOCUS ON POLICY AND WORK IN A BIPARTISAN WAY IN POLICY AND INNOVATION AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP, JOB CREATION TEN YEARS AGO WORKED ON THE JOBS . SO FOR MORE EFFECTIVE, STAYING IN MY LANE AND FOCUS ON THINGS I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT AND DOING IT IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

J.D. VANCE DID WORK WITH US IN D.C. FOR A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AND MOVED TO OHIO AND CONTINUED TO WORK FOR ANOTHER SIX MONTHS 0 R SO OR SO AND DECIDED TO LEAVE.

I'VE NOT TALKED TO HIM SINCE HE ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY.

I'VE BEEN SURPRISED BUT THINGS HE SAID ARE DIFFERENT THAN OMISSION AND I GUESS THAT'S PART OF THE GAME OF POLITICS.

YOU WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH RON KLAIN AT YOUR COMPANY.

NOW HE'S CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT BIDEN.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS CLOSE ENOUGH AND GETS BUSINESS, ENTREPRENEUR BUSINESS AND WHAT ADVICE IF YOU COULD PULL RON KLAIN ASIDE AGAIN, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

LHE'S A CO-FOUNDER OF REVOLUTION WHEN WE STARTED IN 2005.

OBVIOUSLY SERVING THE COUNTRY WORKING AS PRESIDENT BIDEN AS THE CHIEF OF STAFF.

WHEN ADMINISTRATION STARTED, THEY WERE FOCUSED ON A LOT OF THINGS.

THE PANDEMIC WAS FRONT AND CENTER AND PROBABLY DIDN'T FOCUS AS MUCH ON BUSINESS AND DIDN'T ENGAGE LIKE SOME WOULD HAVE LI LIKED.

THAT'S CHANGED IN THE LAST THREE TO SIX MONTHS AND INCLUDING THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT WITH A SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT IN CLIMATE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WILL BOOST THE SECTOR AND AUTHORIZE SO BILLION TO FUND REGIONAL HUBS TO BE THERE.

PEOPLE DON'T FULLY APPRECIATE IT BUT PLACES LIKE SILICON VALLEY DIDN'T HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT.

THAT WAS SEMI CONDUCTOR RESEARCH IN AUSTIN THAT WAS GIVEN IN PART BY GOVERNMENT FUNDING SO HAVING THE GOVERNMENT BOOST THE INNOVATION BUILDING ON THE GREAT RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES IN SO MANY CITIES AND INVEST IN ACCOMPLISHING THESE REGIONAL HUBS ARE HELPFUL.

THE RECENT EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF THE ADMINISTRATION IS THERE IS MORE FOCUS ON BUSINESS AND PARTICULARLY FOCUSED ON INNOVATION, ENTREPRENEURSHIP STARTUPS AND HE WAS IN COLUMBUS, OHIO TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE WITH INTEL, WHICH HELPED LAUNCH SILICON VALLEY AND LAUNCH WHAT WE CALL THE SILICON HEARTLAND IN OHIO.

SO I THINK WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS.

ONE OF THE THINGS FROM YOUR BOOK THAT GIVES ME OPTIMISM, YOU GET WORRIED ABOUT THE NATIONAL DISCOURSE IN POLITICS AND YOU SEE A CHATTANOOGA OR COLUMBUS OR SEE PLACES ENLIVENED AGAIN.

TELL ME WHAT GIVES YOU OPTIMISM ABOUT AMERICA IN THE FUTURE.

IT'S BUILDING RIGHT NOW.

IT'S ENTREPRENEURS DREAMING BIG DREAMS TO HELP US LIVE OUR LIFE AND BETTER WAYS TO REIMAGINE SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT AS SPE ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES AND WHAT WE LEARN AND WHAT WE EAT AND HOW WE MOVE AROUND, HOW WE INVEST.

THOSE ARE ALL PLAYING OUT AND NOT JUST HAPPENING ON THE COST BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO TRAVEL TO DOZENS AND DOZENS OF CITIES.

I'M REALLY STRUCK BY WHAT IS HAPPENING.

EVERY CITY I GO TO, I'M AMAZED WHAT IS GOING ON.

PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITIES I VISIT OFTEN DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPP HAPPENING.

CERTAINLY PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THIS IS A STORY THAT NEEDED TO BE TOLD.

THIS IS A BOOK THAT NEEDED TO BE WRITTEN SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING AND IF WE CONTINUE TO BACK THESE ENTREPRENEURS AND INVEST MORE VENTURE CAPITAL ON THESE ENTREPRENEURS IN DIFFERENT CITIES, IT WILL UNLEASH A WAVE OF INNOVATION, A WAVE OF JOB CREATION THAT REALLY WILL STRENGTHEN THESE COMMUNITIES AND ALSO STRENGTHEN OUR NATIONS.

I FEEL GREAT ABOUT THE PROGRESS WE MADE OVER THE LAST DECADE.

I THINK THE NEXT DECADE IS WHEN THE REST REALLY WILL RISE AND INNOVATION WILL DISBURSE.

THAT'S THE BEST WAY, I THINK, TO MAKE SURE AMERICA REMAINS THE MOST INNOVATIVE ENTREPRENEUR IN THE WORLD.

WE NEED MORE SHOTS ON GOAL, BACKING MORE PEOPLE IN MORE PLACES, NOT JUST SOME PEOPLE IN SOME PLACES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU, WALTER.

> AND FINALLY, WE'VE TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT THE IMPORTANCE OF REMEMBERING THROUGHOUT TONIGHT'S PROGRAM THE WORST OF HUMANITY AND THE VERY BEST, THOSE WHO PAVED THE WAY FOR PROGRESS TONIGHT A NEW AMERICAN QUARTER THAT FEATURES THE 1920s MOVIE STAR ANIME.

SHE'LL BECOME THE FIRST ASIAN-AMERICAN TO APPEAR ON U.S.

CURRENCY A CENTURY AFTER SHE SECURED HER FIRST LEADING ROLE.

MAY WONG BECAME A HOLLYWOOD STAR DURING THE SILENT FILM ERA WHERE SHE FACED DISCRIMINATION AND RACISM THROUGHOUT HER CAREER.

THE NEW COINS WILL BE IN CIRCULATION FROM MONDAY AS THE FIFTH DESIGN FROM THE AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTERS PROGRAM THAT CELEBRATES AMERICAN CULTURE.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM.

FOLLOW ME ON THE SHOW OR ON TWITTER.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.