December 8, 2022

> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO IMPORTANT COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP .

EUROPE'S MR. McRAE COUNTRY IN THE SHADOW OF THE UKRAINE WAR.

I SPEAK WITH MOTIVE WAS PRESIDENT.

AFTER PROTEST, CHINA'S 0-COVID BARRIERS BEGIN TO COME DOWN.

BUT IS IT DEADLY WINTER ON THE WAY?

WHAT IS IT THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT HERE?

EXTREME SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE.

I SPOKE WITH THE STAR OF THE MOVIE 'SHE SAYS' , AND THE RELIEF JOURNALIST THAT TOOK DOWN HARVEY WEINSTEIN.

NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT JULIA IN TIME ON THE WAY TO CRITICAL ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

LONDON.

MOLDOVA IS UKRAINE'S MOST FRAGILE NEIGHBOR.

ACTUALLY ALMOST A 30% VISION RATE, DEALING WITH ENERGY SHORTAGES, BLACKOUT, AND EVEN STRAIGHT MISSILE INCURSIONS . COLOSSAL DAMAGE FROM RUSSIA'S WAR JUST ACROSS THE BORDER.

BUT MOLDOVA IS NOT ABOUT TO BE PUSHED AROUND.

THE COUNTRY IS HOLDING THE LINE AGAINST WHAT LEADERS CALL A HYBRID WAR BY RUSSIA.

TARGETING THEIR POLITICAL SYSTEM AS WELL AS THEIR ECONOMY.

ALTHOUGH PRESIDENT MY ASCENDANT IS IN WASHINGTON THIS WEEK.

SHE MEETS WITH VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS AND OTHER SENIOR OFFICIALS.

AND SHE RECEIVES THE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT AWARD FOR HER TIRELESS EFFORTS TO PROMOTE DEMOCRACY.

SANDU WORKED AT THE WORLD BANK BEFORE ENTERING INTO POLITICS.

WE TALKED WITH MOTIVE WAS SHEER SURVIVAL, LIVING IN THE SHADOW.

MS. SANDU , WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THINK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

YOU HAVE MET WITH THE TOP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS , MANY FEMALE LEADERS AS WELL.

I JUST WHAT THEY SAY TO YOU BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?

THEY ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE.

I HAVE BEEN TOGETHER WITH MY TEAM, WE HAVE ENCOURAGED , OVER THE YEARS, TO FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY, TO FIGHT AGAINST CORRUPTION.

AND NOW WE HAVE THE POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR MY COUNTRY.

WE DO GET A LOT OF SUPPORT . WE ARE VERY THANKFUL FOR THAT.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT YOU?

YOU HAVE JUST COME AND GOT AN AWARD, ACTUALLY.

A DEMOCRACY AWARD FROM THE FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, MADELEINE ALBRIGHT'S ORGANIZATION.

A NEW REPORT SAYS THAT MOLDOVA IS A DEMOCRATIC BRIGHT SPOT IN A WORLD THAT IS SHIFTING TOWARDS CARTOGRAPHY.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT YOU, YOUR GOVERNMENT, AND YOUR COUNTRY CAN MAINTAIN THAT IN THE START PART OF THE WORLD?

WE BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY.

WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY WITH THE MOLDOVAN PEOPLE FOR MANY YEARS.

OUR OBJECTIVE WAS TO STRENGTHEN THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES.

WE DO THIS AS WE PROMISED TO THE PEOPLE.

THE RUSSIAN AGAINST AGGRESSION AGAINST UKRAINE , OUR LIVES AND EVERYBODY'S LIVES ARE MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.

AND OUR GOVERNMENT HAS TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON MANAGING DIFFERENT CRISIS SITUATIONS.

BUT WE ARE STILL COMMITTED TO OUR MAJOR OBJECTIVE.

OUR MAJOR OBJECTIVE IS TO KEEP MOLD OF UP PART OF THE WORLD.

DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY.

TO MAKE IT IS GREAT TO SPEAK WITH US.

WE KNOW IT IS ONE OF THE POOREST ANY COUNTRIES, YOU ARE RIGHT THERE SLEPT AGAINST UKRAINE, ROMANIA IS YOUR ALLY, AND YOU HAVE RUSSIAN FORCES AND PART OF YOUR COUNTRY, SOME 1500 SO- CALLED PEACEKEEPERS IN A SEPARATE PART.

SO CAN I JUST ASK YOU, ARE YOUR AMERICAN FRIENDS AND OTHERS CONCERNED ? LIKE EVERYBODY WAS AT THE BEGINNING, THAT MOLDOVA MAY GO THE WAY OF, I DON'T KNOW, GEORGIA OR UKRAINE, AND THAT PUTIN HAD DIED, YOU KNOW, OTHER COUNTRIES ON THE BORDER.

DO YOU THINK THAT THREAT HAS PASSED FOR YOU, GIVEN THE DIRECTION OF THE WAR?

EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NOT A MILITARY THREAT , THANKS TO UKRAINE, WE ARE FACING THE WAR AND ATTEMPTS BY RUSSIA TO DISAVOW THE SITUATION IN RUSSIA.

WE HAVE THE ILLEGAL RUSSIAN TROOPS STATIONING THERE.

OF COURSE, THIS IS THE KEY INCREASES THE SECURITY ACCOUNT.

IS THAT HYBRID WARFARE.

I WONDER IF YOU CAN EXPAND ON THAT.

WE KNOW THAT RUSSIA IS CUTTING OFF AND SEVERELY RESTRICTING YOUR ACCESS TO GAS AND ENERGY.

I THINK YOU DEPEND ALMOST ENTIRELY ON ENERGY FROM THEIR . AS YOU SAID , YOU KNOW, GETTING DEBRIS AND FALLOUT FROM MISSILES HITTING YOUR TERRITORY.

TELL ME HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS.

WELL, THE PROPAGANDA IS PART OF THE HYBRID WAR . ORGANIZING ENERGY IS PART OF THE HYBRID WAR.

AND THE QUESTIONS CUTTING THE GAS SUPPLY TO MOLDOVA BY 60% , THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BEEN PAYING , DESPITE THE VERY HIGH PRICES, WE HAVE SEEN --IN MOLDOVA WITH RUSSIAN POLITICAL FORCES, AND SUPPORTED BY RUSSIA, HAVE BEEN ORGANIZING THE PROCESS AND ALTHOUGH IT TO -- THE SITUATION MATTER HOW DIFFICULT IT IS , WE HAVE TO FIND A SOLUTION.

WE DO GET SUPPORT FROM OUR INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS, ARE DEVELOPING PARTNERS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE MOLDOVAN SUPPORT.

BUT MORE RECENTLY, IN THE U.S.

THESE DAYS TO ASK FOR MORE SUPPORT . WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HELP OUR POPULATION OVERCOME THIS DIFFICULT WINTER.

WE ARE BUYING THE GASOLINE MARKET , BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE.

RATE AND MOTIVE INCREASED BY SEVEN TIMES IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS.

IN THE --FOR ELECTRICITY INCREASED . THIS HAS SIGNIFICANT IMPLICATIONS ON HER SITUATION.

BECAUSE WE ARE THE POOREST COUNTRY IN EUROPE.

PEOPLE HAVE LOW INCOME.

ALSO, THE FACT THAT RUSSIA ATTACKS THE UKRAINIAN ENERGY NETWORK , IT HAS APPLICATIONS FROM MOLDOVA .

HONESTLY, IT SOUNDS ABSOLUTELY AWFUL.

I WONDER WHERE YOU THINK YOUR PROTECTION COMES FROM, YOU ARE NOT IN A DONATION, BUT WE JUST HEARD RECENTLY, IN THE RECENT MEETINGS, AND IT IS THAT IT WILL HELP COUNTRIES LIKE YOURS, LIKE MOLDOVAN, QUOTE, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

IT IS BETTER TO SUPPORT THEM NOW, RATHER THAN SEE DEPARTMENTS GO ABSOLUTELY IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, AS WE SAW WITH THE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

WHAT KIND OF HELP HAVE YOU BEEN OFFERED?

AND HAS IT COME YOUR WAY YET?

WE HAVE BEEN CULTIVATING WITH NATO BEFORE.

AND NOW THE SUPPORT IS BECOMING BIGGER.

WE ALSO RECEIVED THE MOST SUPPORT FROM NATO MEMBER COUNTRIES IN ORDER TO STRENGTHEN OUR CAPACITY.

OF COURSE, WE CANNOT DO MIRACLES IN A SHORT TIME.

BUT, YES, WE HAVE BEEN MAKING ADVANCES IN OUR DEFENSE SECTOR.

ALTHOUGH WE UNDERSTAND UKRAINE IS A PRIORITY AND SHOULD BE A PRIORITY, WE HOPE TO -- INCREASE OUR DEFENSE CAPACITY.

YOU HAVE APPLIED TO JOIN THE EU.

TRANSCO IS BEING REVIEWED.

YOU DECIDED THIS ALONGSIDE THE TIME UKRAINE WAS.

RUSSIA SAID THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO DIVERT FROM THE DAY BEFORE, TO ENSLAVE NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES BY THE EU.

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT RUSSIA'S RESPONSE?

OR DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE TOO MUCH ON THEIR PLATE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THESE MOVES?

WE ARE A FREE COUNTRY.

IT IS OUR DECISION HOW ANYONE SHOULD DEVELOP OUR COUNTRY AND WHAT MODE OF DEVELOPMENT WE WANT TO APPLY . WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR YEARS THAT NEW INTEGRATION OF APPLICATION , WE ARE VERY HAPPY THAT MOLDOVA HAS RECEIVED THE CANDIDACY.

IT IS OUR DECISION.

OF COURSE, THE DECISION OF THE MEMBER STATES.

IT IS NOT RUSSIA'S BUSINESS . WE BELIEVE IN A FREE WORLD , AND WE BELIEVE IN THE FACT THAT EVERY NATION HAS THE RIGHT TO BE ITS OWN STATE.

WE ARE COMMITTED TO ACTIVATING THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE RELATED --TO THE UKRAINE COUNSEL.

WE HAVE THE SAME COMMITMENT TOWARDS OUR POPULATION . THIS IS ABOUT FIGHTING CORRUPTION , YOU KNOW, CORRUPTION HAS DAMAGED MY COUNTRY SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE ARE TAKING STEPS TO BUILD PROPER JUSTICE AND HAVING A STRONG AND INDEPENDENT INSTITUTION.

WE ARE ALSO COUNTING ON INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT , SO THE MONEY WOULD NOT MOVE AROUND AS IT DID BEFORE . THE BIGGEST CORRUPTION CASES IN MOLDOVA HAPPENED WITH THE HELP OF SOME NETWORKS OF ANONYMOUS COMPANIES THAT SWITCHED THE COUNTRY FOR MOLDOVAN TO OTHER NATIONS.

WE ARE ALSO ASKING FOR HELP TO RECOVER THIS MONEY . WE HOPE TO COOPERATION ON THAT.

WE ARE GOING TO DO OUR BEST.

IT SHOULD BE OUR DECISION, NOT RUSSIA'S DECISION , HOW MOLDOVA WANTS TO DEVELOP, AND WHERE MOLDOVA WANTS TO GET.

IS A BRAVE AND FIGHTING WORDS.

THAT IS WHAT UKRAINE SAID AS WELL.

LOOK AT WHAT I GOT FROM RUSSIA.

YOU MENTIONED, YOU KNOW , CORRUPTION.

IT IS PRETTY STAGGERING.

HE SAID THAT IN 2000 14 , MOLDOVA HAD THE LARGEST BANK VAULT AND COUNTRY RELATIVE TO THE GDP.

HERE IT IS, ALMOST 12% OF YOUR DDP WAS STOLEN IN A MATTER OF MONTHS.

CAN YOU ACTUALLY DO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING NOW?

GET YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER ? BECAUSE YOUR ECONOMY AND PEOPLE DESPERATELY NEED THAT MONEY.

WELL, IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT THIS MONEY WAS STOLEN, INSTEAD OF BEING INVESTED IN OTHER SECURITY OR IN PROJECTS FOR THE COUNTRY . WE WOULD BE IN A MUCH BETTER SITUATION.

FACE THIS.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN FIX THE FUTURE.

WE HAVE TO DO OUR BEST TO RECOVER THIS MONEY.

IT IS DIFFICULT, BECAUSE OF ALL THE CRISIS SITUATIONS.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY AROUND THIS . IT IS OUR CHOICE, AND WE WILL DO OUR BEST.

BUT WE CAN COUNT ON THE SUPPORT OF OUR DEVELOPING PARTNERSHIPS.

BECAUSE IT IS DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE ALL OF THESE OBJECTIVES , TO STRENGTHEN THE RESILIENCE OF OUR ECONOMY, GIVEN THE EFFECT OF THE WAR ON MOLDOVA'S ECONOMY.

YEAH, YEAH.

HAVE YOU, BOTTOM LINE, DO YOU HAVE PROMISES OF HELP FROM YOUR INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS?

THE EU, THE UNITED STATES.

YOU MENTIONED REFUGEES , JUST AFTER THE WAR STARTED . YOUR FOREIGN MINISTER TOLD ME THAT 10% OF CHILDREN IN MOLDOVA RIGHT NOW ARE UKRAINIAN KIDS.

I MEAN, IS THAT STILL THE STATISTIC?

WELL, SOME OF THE REFUGEES LEFT MOLDOVA.

BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME FIGURES, SINCE THE WAR, WE SAW 700,000 UKRAINIAN REFUGEES ENTERING MOLDOVA , A COUNTRY OF 1.26 MILLION PEOPLE, WHICH WAS A HUGE NUMBER.

AND I AM GRATEFUL THAT THE MOLDOVAN PEOPLE OPENED THEIR HOUSES AND HEART, AND THEY PROVIDED SHELTER TO THE REFUGEES.

TODAY, WE HAVE 80,000 UKRAINIAN REFUGEES IN MOLDOVA . HALF OF THEM ARE CHILDREN.

WE STAY IN FULL SOLIDARITY WITH UKRAINE, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO HELP AS MUCH AS WE CAN, HELPING REFUGEES.

AGAIN, UKRAINE IS DEFENDING

TO QUOTE THE ESTONIAN PRIME MINISTER, HE BASICALLY SAID FOR YOU, IT IS ? ESSENTIAL.

RIGHT?

IF YOU CLEARING LOSES, YOU COULD LOSE.

WELL, THIS SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD BY EVERYBODY . THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT UKRAINE.

THIS IS ABOUT MOLDOVA , THIS IS ABOUT THE REGION.

WE CANNOT ALLOW ANY COUNTRY NOT TO RESPECT THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF ITS NEIGHBOR , AND THE SOVEREIGNTY . SO UKRAINE SHOULD BE HELPED TO RECOVER ITS TERRITORY, AND THE WAR SHOULD END.

PRESIDENT MAIA SANDU , THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU.

> MEANWHILE, CHINA , DESPITE THE UKRAINE WAR, ANNOUNCED SWEEPING CHANGES TO ITS STRICT 0-COVID POLICY.

PROTEST.

BUT AS THE PANDEMIC BARRIERS COME DOWN, COULD COVID FATALITIES SPIKE AGAIN?

IVAN WATSON REPORTS FROM HONG KONG.

Reporter: CHINA IS THE LAST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD STILL TRYING TO COMPLETELY ERADICATE COVID.

BUT AFTER MONTHS OF HARSH RESTRICTIONS, SOME OF THE COVID LUCKED ON BARRIERS IN CHINA ARE STARTING TO COME DOWN.

THIS MOVE BY AUTHORITIES COMES JUST DAYS AFTER PROTESTS ERUPTED ACROSS THE COUNTRY AGAINST BEIJING'S ZERO COVID POLICY.

THIS BREATH OF FRESH AIR FOR SOME EXHAUSTED CITIZENS CARRIED A HARSH REALITY.

EXPERTS PREDICT A TOUGH COVID WINTER IS LIKELY COMING.

THE WINTER IS THE WORST TIME TO HAVE A LARGE EPIDEMIC.

BECAUSE PEOPLE MAY BE UNDER OTHER PRESSURES .

UNLIKE THE REST OF THE PROPORTIONATELY HAVE HAD COVID.

THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE STRICT LOCKDOWNS THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS IMPLANTED.

SO THERE IS A VERY LOW BASELINE IMMUNITY.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT CHINA HAS BEEN USING IT DOMESTICALLY PRODUCED VACCINES, WHICH ARE LESS EFFECTIVE .

Reporter: CHINA HAS ONE TO THE HIGHEST VACCINATION RATES.

BUT VACCINATION FOR THE ELDERLY IN CHINA LAGGED FAR BEHIND.

22% OF CHINESE CITIZENS OVER 80 ARE COMPLETELY UNVACCINATED.

THAT LEAVES FRESHLY 8.4 MILLION UNVACCINATED PEOPLE.

Reporter: WITH THE COVID SPREADING TO CHINA RIGHT NOW, WE WILL SEE HER CASES IN THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH NO VACCINATION OR IN A RECENT VACCINATION.

EPIDEMIOLOGISTS SAY HONG KONG COULD BE A ROAD MAP TO WHAT HAPPENS IN MAINLAND CHINA.

AFTER BUBBLE FOR TWO YEARS, OMICRON SPREAD OUT OF CONTROL HERE LAST WINTER.

AT THE PEAK OF THE OUTBREAK, HONG KONG SUFFERED MORE THAN 7000 DEATHS IN SIX WEEKS.

MOST OF THEM WERE ELDERLY.

AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE HIGH- END COVID MORTALITY RATE IN THE WORLD . DRIVEN LARGELY BY VERY LOW VACCINATION RATES AMONG PEOPLE OVER 60.

PER CAPITA, MAINLAND CHINA HAS HALF THE NUMBER OF CRITICAL CARE BEDS IN HOSPITAL COMPARED TO HONG KONG.

CHINA GOT ITS INVESTMENTS BACKWARDS.

BY PUTTING THE FOCUS ON TESTING, AND NOT ON VACCINES AND TREATMENT, CHINA HAS ACTUALLY NOT PREPARED THE COUNTRY AND CITIZENS FOR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ZERO COVID ENDS, WHICH IS INEVITABLY ENDING AT SOME POINT.

Reporter: CHINA WAS FIRST SEEN AT THE CENTER OF THE OUTBREAK IN 2018.

IT CAN ALSO BE THE LAST COUNTRY THAT FACES A COVID CRISIS.

IVAN WATSON REPORTING THERE.

STRIKE AT THIS HOUR, THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN LOS ANGELES RAPE TRIAL IS STILL ONGOING.

THIS WOULD BE ON TOP OF THE 23 YEARS HE IS ALREADY SERVING IN NEW YORK.

A DOGGED INVESTIGATION OF HIS ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR BY TWO FEMALE JOURNALISTS.

MEGAN TOOHEY AND JULIE CANTOR.

CAN TOUR AND TWO EAST ACCOUNT IS NOW A MOVIE.

THESE YOUNG WOMEN WALKED INTO WHAT THEY HAD TO REASONABLY BELIEVE WERE MEETINGS WITH AN EMPLOYER.

THEY WERE HOPEFUL, EXPECTING SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT THEIR WORK IN A POSSIBLE PROJECT.

INSTEAD, HE MET THEM WITH THREATS AND SEXUAL DEMANDS.

A SECOND HAPPENED TO HOLLYWOOD ACTRESSES, WHO ELSE IS IT HAPPENING TO?

I SPOKE WITH ZOE KAZAN WITHIN THE REAL JODI KANTOR IN THE REAL MEGAN TOOHEY.

I TALKED ABOUT THE INTERSECTION OF ART IN REALITY AND SERVICE OF TRUTH AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

WELCOME TO THIS PROGRAM.

IT IS GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

OBVIOUSLY, THE FILM HAS BEEN OUT FOR A WHILE.

FOR ANY JOURNALIST, IT REALLY PUTS THE BAR HIGH AND MAKES THE WHOLE FIELD REALLY PROUD.

I WANT TO FIRST ASK YOU , THIS IS ARCH MEETING REALITY RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN EPISODE OF THIS INVESTIGATION UNDERWAY, THE TRIAL OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN IN L.A.

SO TELL ME , JODI KANTOR, WHAT YOU ARE FEELING NOW, BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN DECADES SINCE THIS INVESTIGATION BROKE.

IT IS SO TRUE.

WE ARE AWAITING THE VERDICT IN THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN TRIAL.

BUT WHAT OUR BOOK AND THE FILM REALLY INTENDED TO DO IS TAKE YOU BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

LISTEN, WHEN WE WROTE OUR BOOK, WE DID NOT KNOW IF HARVEY WEINSTEIN WOULD BE TRIED OR CONVICTED IN NEW YORK.

WE CERTAINLY DID NOT KNOW WHETHER HE WOULD BE CHARGED IN L.A.. THERE ARE NOW CHARGES IN THE UK.

AND WE FELT THAT BECAUSE, IN PART, WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT THE LEGAL OUTCOME WOULD BE, WE WANTED TO USE THE TOOLS THAT WE HAD, WHICH ARE HOLDING HIM RESPONSIBLE JOURNALISTICALLY.

AND WE ALSO, AS PART OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY , BUT PART OF THE FACT THAT THIS STORY BELONGS TO EVERYBODY, WE WANTED TO TAKE EVERYBODY ON A JOURNEY BACK TO THE BEGINNING AND THE EARLY DAYS OF THE INVESTIGATION.

THE VERY FIRST PHONE CALLS WITH ACTRESSES IT MIGHT BE, EVEN IF WE PUBLISHED SOMETHING, PEOPLE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY CARE , THE LAST- MINUTE CONFRONTATIONS WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN, THE DIFFICULTY OF DOING A STORY LIKE THIS.

SO WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL TO ZOE AND THE REST OF THE TEAM OF THE HIT FILM.

YOU KNOW , FOR TAKING THIS STORY AND TELLING US RESERVE IT , AND TAKING PEOPLE ON THAT JOURNEY.

NOT JUST PRESERVE IT, IT IS ALSO A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR WHAT MIGHT BE HAPPENING NOW.

WE WILL GET TO THAT.

MEGAN TOOHEY, I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE JODI REFERS TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE BOTH INVOLVED IN OTHER STORIES, OTHER REPORTING, INCLUDING, YOU ARE INVESTIGATING ONE DONALD TRUMP SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HARASSMENT ALLEGATIONS THAT ARE BEING FILED AGAINST HIM AT THE TIME.

I THINK YOU SAID THAT IT DID NOT STOP HIM FROM BEING BECOMING THE PRESIDENT.

IN 2016, IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ASSIGNMENT I HAD INVEST IT DONALD TRUMP'S TREATMENT OF WOMEN.

I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST REPORTERS WHO BROKE STORIES OF ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT AGAINST HIM.

THAT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE FOR ME AS A JOURNALIST, A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE FOR SOME OF THE WOMEN WHO WENT FORWARD, WHO STEPPED FORWARD AND WENT PUBLIC WITH THOSE ALLEGATIONS.

THEY WERE THREATENED WITH LAWSUITS , TRUMP GOT UP ON STAGE AND CALLED THEM UGLY, LIARS, AND THAT HE WAS, YOU KNOW, ELECTED TO OFFICE.

SO THERE WAS A REAL QUESTION GOING INTO 2017 ABOUT HOW MUCH THE PUBLIC GENUINELY CARED ABOUT THESE ISSUES OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ABUSE.

SO , WHEN I RETURNED FROM MATERNITY LEAVE AND JODI HAD STARTED THIS WEINSTEIN INVESTIGATION, I WILL CONFESS I WAS A LITTLE RELUCTANT TO JOIN HER ON THIS, BECAUSE I WAS NOT SURE WHAT THE OUTCOME , EVEN IF WE WERE ABLE TO GET THE STORY, EVEN IF IT DID TURN OUT TO BE A TRUE PREDATOR OF A HOLLYWOOD PRODUCER AND WE WERE ABLE TO EXPOSE IT, I WAS NOT SURE IF ANYBODY WAS GOING TO CARE.

REGARDING THAT DESCRIPTION OF TRUE CREDITOR.

I WILL REDO WITH THE L.A.

COUNTY DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY SAID IN THE CLOSING ARGUMENTS IN THE L.A.

TRIAL OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN.

THIS CREDITOR, HOTELS WERE HIS TRAP . CONFINED WITHIN THOSE WALLS, VICTIMS WERE NOT ABLE TO RUN FROM HIS HULKING MASS.

PEOPLE WERE NOT ABLE TO HEAR THEIR SCREAMS.

I WANT TO TURN TO YOU, SO WE CAN 10, AS AN ACTRESS WHO PLAYS JODI KANTOR , WHAT DID IT MEAN TO YOU TO PLAY THESE TWO JOURNALISTS?

BUT ALSO, IT WAS ABOUT ACTRESSES, YOUR BUSINESS, HOLLYWOOD.

PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF WERE THE POTENTIAL VICTIM.

THE APP.

I THINK, FOR ALL OF US WORKING ON THE FILM , WE THOUGHT WE SHOULD TELL THE STORY, NOT BECAUSE IT WAS ABOUT OUR INDUSTRY, BUT AS IT REFLECTS A LARGER PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY.

WHEN I HEAR THE PROBLEMS THAT WAS RIGHT IN THE CLOSING ARGUMENT, I PICTURE A MONSTER.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THIS WAS A MAN, IT WAS A PERSON.

THIS HAPPENED TO A LARGER OR SMALLER EXTENT , ALL OVER THE WORLD ALL THE TIME.

THAT IS THE POWER OF THIS REPORTING, TO ME.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS AN ESPECIALLY VISIBLE PERSON.

IN EIGHTH ESPECIALLY VISIBLE PROFESSION.

BUT THE AIM OF THIS REPORTING WAS GREATER, AT LEAST THAT IS HOW IT FELT TO ME.

I THINK THE IMPACT OF THE REPORTING HAS ECHOED FAR BEYOND.

ISCHEMIC USE --

YOU SPEAK OF A GENERATION THAT IS YOUNGER THAN THOSE WHO ARE SPOTLIGHTED IN THE FILM.

SO I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER YOU FACE THE SAME KIND OF HARASSMENT IN HOLLYWOOD.

BUT CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IT IS LIKE IN HOLLYWOOD TODAY , POST- HARVEY WEINSTEIN FOR FEMALES?

I THINK WE HAVE DESERVED VERY CONCRETE CHANGES THAT HAVE HAPPENED WITH OUR INDUSTRY.

WE HAVE INTIMACY COORDINATOR'S NOW FOR ANY INTIMATE CORONATION ON-SCREEN.

IT SEEMS THAT SOMETHING WE SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS HAD, IT SEEMS LIKE A NO-BRAINER.

WE HAVE MEETINGS AT THE BEGINNING OF PRODUCTIONS TO TALK ABOUT THE CONDUCT WE ALL AGREE TO, ANTIHARASSMENT WORKSHOPS, ALL OF THAT REALLY HELPS A LOT.

IT HELPS SET A DIFFERENT TONE FOR A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION.

I THINK THAT IS THE MAIN THING.

IT OPENS THE DOORS TO BEING ABLE TO RAISE YOUR HAND IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, BEFORE , IT SEEMS LIKE THE TABLE WAS NOT SET FOR THAT CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN.

THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, AS A SOCIETY, WE HAVE SO MUCH FARTHER TO GO.

I THINK ONE OF THE POWERFUL THINGS ABOUT THE FILM IS THAT IT SHOWS YOU THE BLUEPRINT FOR HOW THINGS CAN CHANGE, HOW THAT HAPPENS.

NOT WITH THINGS ON HIGH, BUT

THE FIRST CLIP I WANT TO PLAY IS JODI'S CHARACTER IN THE FILM SPEAKING TO LAURA MADDEN.

SHE WAS THE FIRST WEINSTEIN VICTIM WHO WAS WILLING TO GO ON THE RECORD.

HERE IS A CLIP.

I FELT SUCH SHAME.

THAT I LET HIM DO THAT.

DID YOU THINK HE HAD DONE THE SAME TO OTHER GIRLS?

I THOUGHT HE MUST HAVE TRIED IT.

BUT THEY'D ALL SAID NO.

IT WAS LIKE HE TOOK MY VOICE THAT DAY.

JUST WHEN I WAS ABOUT TO START FINDING IT.

I MEAN, IT IS TRAGIC.

YOU KNOW, WHAT WERE YOU THAT TO YOU REX THAT HE TOOK HER VOICE, AND SHE THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS THE ONLY GUILTY ONE , THAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAD ESCAPED BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN MUCH BRAVER THAN HER, WHICH WAS NOT THE CASE.

EVEN THAT SHORT CLIP CAPTURED SO MUCH.

YOU HEAR AN ACTOR PLAYING A WOODEN --A WOMAN THAT WAS SO YOUNG.

THIS IS THE ENEMY OF WORKPLACE SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

SHE HAD JUST STARTED THE JOB, A VERY EXCITING JOB.

SHE WANTED OPPORTUNITY , SHE WANTED A PIECE OF THE ACTION.

WEINSTEIN HAD PROMISED HER A JOB IN THE LONDON OFFICE, WHICH SOUNDED LIKE HEAVEN.

RIGHT?

IT IS LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFETIME.

AND BECAUSE SHE WAS SO YOUNG, AND A LOT OF WOMEN HAVE SAID THIS, IT WAS REALLY HARD TO KNOW THE CONTEXT AND WHAT THE RULES SHOULD BE.

THERE WERE MANY WOMEN THAT SAID THINGS TO US, LIKE, WELL, I WAS TOLD TO REPORT TO HIS ROOM AND HE WAS IN A BATHROBE.

THE WAY THINGS WORKED IN HOLLYWOOD.

SO HE WAS REALLY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEIR YOUTH.

AND THEN WHAT I THINK IS ALSO REALLY BEAUTIFUL ABOUT THAT CLIP, YOU ARE NOT --YOU ARE HEARING FROM A WOMAN WHO IS NOT BEING DEFINED SOLELY AS A VICTIM, BUT A WOMAN WHO IS 20 YEARS OLDER AT THIS POINT AND IS REFLECTING BACK ON HER LIFE.

AND SHE TALKS ABOUT THE ROLE OF THIS INCIDENT SHAPING HER LIFE, BUT WHAT HER LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY IS TO OTHER WOMEN , IN TERMS OF WHETHER TO HELP MEGAN AND I OR NOT.

ON THE ONE HAND, SHE DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO CAUSE THIS BEHAVIOR, YOU KNOW, WHY IS IT ON THESE WOMEN TO HAVE TO PARTICIPATE IN IS VERY DIFFICULT, STRESSFUL INVESTIGATION AND REVEALED THESE VERY PRIVATE TRUTHS?

SHE IS ALSO REALIZING WHAT HER POWER IS , AND THAT HER STORY, WHICH FELT SHAMEFUL , AND THAT SHE HAD MOSTLY BURIED AWAY, YOU KNOW , COULD POSSIBLY MEAN SOMETHING TO OTHER PEOPLE.

OF COURSE , WHAT NEITHER LAURA NOR I , NOR MEGAN KNEW IN THAT MOMENT WAS JUST HOW MUCH THAT STORY WOULD EVENTUALLY MEAN TO OTHER PEOPLE, AND HOW MUCH IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE AROUND THE WORLD.

MEGAN, WERE YOU SURPRISED, HAVING DOUBTED THE IMPACT AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU WERE TALKING TO DOUBTING THE IMPACT, WERE YOU SURPRISED BY HOW MUCH IT RESONATED?

AND WHAT A MOVEMENT YOU ALL STARTED?

AND THE FACT THAT THIS FILM HAS TAKEN OFF IN THE SAME VEIN.

IT IS ALL DONE BY WOMEN.

THE DIRECTOR, THE WRITER , YOU KNOW, IT IS QUITE SOMETHING.

IT REALLY IS QUITE SOMETHING.

JODY AND I HAVE BEEN IN JOURNALISM FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

WE HAVE BEEN PART OF STORIES THAT HAVE HAD A BIG IMPACT BEFORE, BUT NOTHING , WE HAVE NEVER BEEN A PART OF ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

IT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE FELT WE HAD TO REALLY COMMIT EVERYTHING, ALL OF THE DETAILS TO THIS BOOK.

AND THEN TO SEE THESE INCREDIBLE PRODUCERS , FEMA WRITERS, FEMA PRODUCERS, AND THE AMAZING ON SIMULCAST, THEY COME IN AND DO JUSTICE TO THIS STORY AND THE HUGE IMPACT THAT COME AT THE END OF THE DAY, A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF WOMEN WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE.

JODY AND I COULD FEEL THE CHANGE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY . WITHIN HOURS OF OUR STORY BEING PUBLISHED , OUR PHONES AND EMAILS WERE BEING FLOODED WITH OTHER WOMEN WHO WERE COMING FORWARD WITH THEIR OWN STORIES OF INDECENT HARASSMENT.

NOT JUST IN HOLLYWOOD, BUT ALL DIFFERENT PROCESSIONS, ALL DIFFERENT WALKS OF LIFE.

IF SOMEBODY ADMITTEDLY HAD A LITTLE SKEPTICISM THAT WENT INTO THIS, IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE THING TO WATCH THE DAM BREAK.

> ZOE, I READ IN SOME OF THE RESEARCH THAT YOU, QUOTE /UNQUOTE, ASKED JODY, THE PERSON YOU ARE PLAYING, A LOT OF NOSY QUESTIONS.

YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO FILL OUT YOUR IMAGINATION OF WHAT THIS CHARACTER IS LIKE.

WE HAD THESE VERY GENEROUS SOURCES WHO WERE WILLING TO SHARE WITH US THINGS LIKE WHO HELPED WITH CHILDCARE, HOW DOES DINNER WENT ON THE TABLE, WHAT YOU CARRY IN YOUR BACK?

HAVE YOU WALKED INTO AN INTERVIEW WITH A SOURCE?

YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED TO FEEL OUT OF MY LIFE SO I DID NOT FEEL COMPLETELY LIKE A FRAUD EVERY TIME I STEPPED ON SETS.

YOU CERTAINLY DID NOT LOOK LIKE ONE.

BUT YOU TWO JOURNALISTS, WHAT I FIND FASCINATING, ACTUALLY, IT DOES NOT HAPPEN MUCH IN THESE KINDS OF FILMS , CERTAINLY NOT IN ALL THE PRESIDENTS MEN . THEY SHOW YOU AS WOMEN WORK WOMEN, WORKING MOTHERS, WORKING LIVES.

MEGAN, YOU MUST HAVE HAD A HARD TIME WHEN YOUR CHILD WAS BORN, YOUR FIRST CHILD.

IT LOOKED LIKE YOU HAD AND, YOU KNOW, JODY, YOU WERE TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING , YOUR HUSBAND WAS THERE TO HELP.

WAS THAT A CONSCIOUS DECISION, TO PUT YOUR PERSONAL LIFE THAT'S MUCH ON THE TABLE, JODY?

AND WHY?

THE FILM MAKERS ESSENTIALLY ASKED US PERMISSION.

IF YOU READ OUR BOOK, IT IS A TERSE DETECTIVE STORY.

WE ARE VERY STUCK ON THE JOURNALISM, THE STORIES, IT IS ONLY IN THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT WE REVIEW WHAT WE WERE DEALING WITH AT THE TIME.

YES, MEGAN CAME BACK FROM MATERNITY LEAVE AND WAS RECOVERING FROM POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION WHEN SHE STARTED THE WEINSTEIN INVESTIGATION.

I HAD AN 11-YEAR-OLD, HE WANTED HALF-YEAR-OLD, YOU KNOW , MY HUSBAND , YOU KNOW, ALSO A WRITER AT THE TIME WAS ALSO DEALING WITH URGENT ISSUES.

YOU KNOW , THE IMPRESSION THAT I STILL HAVE FROM THAT INVESTIGATION WAS JUST THE RESPONSIBILITY . YOU KNOW, JUST THE MASSIVE RESPONSIBILITY OF AND TRYING TO PUBLISH THE TRUTH ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN , AND IN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PARENTHOOD, WHICH IS SO EXISTENTIAL.

THAT IS WHERE MEGAN AND I BOND, I THINK ORIGINALLY CAME FROM.

YOU CAN SEE IT, THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL SCENE IN THE FILM THAT SHOWS ONE OF OUR FIRST REAL CONVERSATIONS.

FROM THE GETTING, IT WAS LAYERS OF WORK RESPONSIBILITY MASHED WITH THE LAYERS OF MOTHERING RESPONSIBILITY , AND WHAT IT FELT LIKE TO LIVE THAT INVESTIGATION IN REAL TIME WITH THIS IMPULSE OF, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO GET THIS STORY, AND WE HAVE TO GET HOME TO THE KIDS AFTERWARDS.

THE WHOLE THING JUST FEELS SO DEEPLY FEMALE.

IT IS PART OF WHY THE BOOK AND FILM ARE CALLED 'SHE SAID '. WE ARE HONORED THAT THE FILMMAKERS DIGNITY AND SENSITIVITY TO IT.

I REALLY LOVE THE WAY YOU PLAYED IT.

EVEN WHEN YOUR CHARACTER IS DOING 1 MILLION THINGS AT ONCE, LITERALLY GETTING CALLED FROM SOURCES WHILE PUSHING A STROLLER , OR WHILE TAKING CARE OF A VERY YOUNG CHILD, THERE IS NEVER THE SENSE THAT SHE IS GOING TO LOSE IT, OR SHE WILL DROP IT ALL.

INSTEAD, YOU GET THIS MIXTURE, I THINK, OF LOVE, THIS IS VERY TRICKY . AND DETERMINATION.

I AM GOING TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK.

THERE IS NO CLICHED MOMENT IN THE MOVIE THAT SAYS CAN THESE TWO WORKING FEMA JOURNALIST REALLY HAVE IT ALL?

IT ALL IS IN A BEAUTIFUL WAY THAT THEY WILL FIND A WAY , WHICH I THINK MOST OF US TRY TO DO

MEGAN, I'M SORRY YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT PAIN.

BUT IT'S MUST BE, ANYWAY SATISFYING, THAT YOU ARE OUT THERE GIVING HOPE AND REALITY ON THESE THINGS, AND THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT THEM AND WORK THROUGH THEM, TO ALL THE YOUNG WOMEN WHO WILL BE READING YOUR BOOK, OR WATCHING THE FILM, BECAUSE HE SAID IT WAS NOT IN THE BOOK.

ETIQUETTE WAS ANOTHER THING THAT CAME OUT IN THE REPORTING.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WOMEN SUFFER IN ISOLATION ALONE ? AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCE, AND BOND TOGETHER , AND THE POWER THAT CAN COME FROM THAT.

IF I COULD SEE THE SCENE BUT I WAS IN THE FIRST MONTHS OF PARENTHOOD, THIS WAS OUR HOPE.

TO REVEAL SOME OF THE MORE PERSONAL PARTS OF OUR LIVES.

WE DID IT WITH THE HOPE THAT IT COULD ACTUALLY BE EMPOWERING, AND THAT OTHER WOMEN WILL WATCH THIS FILM, AND THEY WILL FEEL SEEN.

TWO JODY CANTOR, MEGAN TOOHEY, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US AND FOR YOUR BRILLIANT INVESTIGATION.

THANK YOU.

THE FILM ' SHE SAID' WILL BE OUT IN THEATERS.

> THE UNITED STATES WAS REMINDED OF ITS OWN WRONGDOINGS THIS WEEK AFTER SUSPECTED ATTACKS ON CAROLINE'S POWER GRID, WHICH LEFT OVER 40,000 CUSTOMERS IN THE DARK.

THE FBI ARE INVESTIGATING.

JULIA KIAM IS A NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERT AND THE AUTHOR OF THE DEVIL NEVER SLEEPS.

SHE SPEAKS ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS ATTACK AND THE BROADER SECURITY LANDSCAPE IN THE CONTEXT OF RUSSIA'S WAR IN UKRAINE.

Reporter: JULIETTE KAYYEM, WELCOME BACK.

I WONDER, WHAT DOES THIS SAY TO YOU ABOUT THE STATE OF OUR NATIONAL POWER GRID AND BIGGER INFRASTRUCTURE?

IT SHOWS BOTH ITS VULNERABILITY TO ANY KIND OF THREAT, WHETHER IT IS A NATURAL DISASTER , OR MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, A DOMESTIC THREAT, BUT ALSO, HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET THESE SYSTEMS BACK UP AND RUNNING, WHETHER IT IS A DAY, TWO DAYS, OR JUST SEVERAL -- THE AREAS IN NORTH CAROLINA ARE SEVERELY IMPACTED.

FROM SCHOOL CLOSURES TO PEOPLE IN SHELTERS, TO HOSPITALS NEEDING TO BRING IN EXTRA GENERATORS AND ELECTRICAL CAPACITY , MULTIPLY THAT 1 MILLION TIMES, RIGHT?

NOT JUST TO THE ENERGY GRID, BUT FOR THE 16 CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE SECTORS IN THE UNITED STATES THAT RANGE FROM CHEMICAL FACILITIES , DAMS, TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, SUBWAYS, TOO, OF COURSE, OUR ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE AND PIPELINE.

THE VULNERABILITIES ARE IMMEASURABLE . AND THAT IS WHY THEY WILL NEVER BE INVULNERABLE, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY MAKE THEM SAFER FROM THE KINDS OF ATTACKS WE HAVE SEEN RECENTLY.

Reporter: THE GOVERNOR SAID --IS HE RIGHT?

ABSOLUTELY.

THE VULNERABILITY OF HER CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AS WELL BEEN KNOWN.

FOR THE LAST DECADE, WE HAVE REALLY FOCUSED ON CYBER SECURITY , WHETHER ANYTHING FROM DAMS, TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, TO OUR ENERGY SECTOR, ALL OF THEM ARE PART OF THE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE APPARATUS.

WHETHER THEY COULD BE ATTACKED BY CYBER ATTACKS , RANSOMWARE FROM RUSSIA, CYBER ATTACKS FROM CHINA OR NORTH KOREA.

BUT WHAT NORTH CAROLINA IS SHOWING US IS THAT THE PHYSICAL PLANTS, THE PHYSICAL STRUCTURES ARE STILL VULNERABLE.

THIS WAS JUST A SHOOTING . A TARGETED SHOOTING.

BUT ONE THAT HAD BROUGHT MISERY AND A LOT OF DISCOMFORT FOR LARGE AREAS OF NORTH CAROLINA.

IS THERE SOMETHING , AND ATTACKS LIKE THIS THAT WAKES UP POWER UTILITIES THAT SERVE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY ? ESPECIALLY THROAT SUBSTATIONS AND RURAL PARTS , SIDE OF THE ROAD , HOW THIS ONE WAS IN THE CAROLINA, THERE ARE SO MANY OF THESE PLACES THAT ARE PHYSICALLY ACCESSIBLE . YET, AS YOU MENTIONED, THEY HAVE A PRETTY LOW SECURITY FLOOR.

THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

EVERY INCIDENT WILL BRING A FOCUS, HOPEFULLY BY THE FACILITIES.

THEY WILL HAVE MORE ISOLATED AREAS OWNED BY DUKE ENERGY, THIS IS A MAJOR COMPANY.

WE CANNOT ACT SURPRISED THAT IT IS NOT JUST A RURAL COMPANY.

AN ATTACK IN CALIFORNIA A DECADE AGO WAS PG&E, ALSO A MAJOR COMPANY.

WE KNOW IT CHANGED GLOBALLY, THAT THESE NETWORKS ARE VERY DESIRABLE BITE NATION STATES OR BY TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS.

IN THE UNITED STATES IN 2020 , THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN THE THREAT ENVIRONMENT BASED ON MATERIALS AND DOCUMENTS THAT WERE BEING CIRCULATED ON RIGHT WING WEBSITES ABOUT GOING AFTER CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

THEY VIEWED IT AS A WAY TO MAKE A LOT OF NOISE, ALSO, THEY HAVE THE PERVERSE SENSE THAT IF YOU PUT THE LIGHTS OUT, THERE MIGHT BE CIVIL WAR OR RACIAL WAR.

THE COMPANIES ARE UNDER NOTICE.

THE FIXES ARE NOT HARD.

THEY ARE ANYTHING FROM SANDBAGS TO A WALL.

THESE ARE NOT SOPHISTICATED FIXES.

THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, AN UNDERWATER PIPELINE THAT YOU HAVE TO PROTECT 1 MILLION MILES OF.

THESE ARE THE ASIC MINIMUM FEATURES TO PROTECT THEM, BECAUSE WHAT WE NOW KNOW IN NORTH CAROLINA, THIS STATION WAS FULLY EXPOSED SO THAT SOMEONE FROM THE STREET COULD NOT GET AT IT.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT THINGS ARE OF PERSON WOULD DO THIS.

THERE WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE.

I WILL START WITH THE LEAST LIKELY AND CAROLINA.

I THINK IT IS UNLIKELY IN THIS CASE.

THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO DO A CYBER ATTACK.

THE SECOND POOL OR CATEGORY THAT ONE WOULD ALWAYS LOOK AT, FOR MY PERSPECTIVE, IS WHAT WE CALL THE INSIDER TRACK.

SOMEONE WITH A MOTIVATION THAT HAS ISSUES WITH THE COMPANY.

THEY DO NOT LIKE THEM, THEY WANTED TARGET THEM.

THIS IS A BIG ISSUE FOR ARTICLE INFRASTRUCTURE OWNERS.

THERE IS A LOT OF REGULATIONS ABOUT WHO HAS ACCESS, YOU CAN WORK THERE.

THE THIRD, WHICH I THINK IS HE GOING SERIES IN NORTH CAROLINA THAT THEY GET ANY THREAT ENVIRONMENT IS SOMEONE WITH AN IDEOLOGICAL DEFENSE.

WHAT WE CALL EXCELERATOR IDEOLOGIES , ONES THAT WANT TO AMERICA'S DEMOCRACY OR DIVERSITY , RIGHT WING ORGANIZATIONS LIKE BOOGALOO OR OTHERS THAT HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

IN ANY CRITICAL INFO STRUCTURE , YOU WILL KEEP THE POSSIBILITY, BUT THERE IS A REASON WHY INVESTIGATORS ARE LOOKING AT A MORE POLITICAL, OR AT LEAST AN IDEOLOGICAL REASON FOR THIS.

IN 2020, THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS KIND OF ATTACK.

THE FBI, DHS , THEY HAVE TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF CONGRESS THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THESE RISKS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I GUESS, WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS OR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING ABSTRACT, THIS IS NOT ABOUT ATTACKING THE CAPITAL OF THE UNITED DATES , THIS COULD BE OUR SAFETY AND SECURITY HERE IN THIS SMALL TOWN.

I THINK THAT IS RIGHT.

THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO TRY TO MINIMIZE THE THREAT.

ONE IS THE HOPE THAT NORTH CAROLINA CAN FIND THESE PEOPLE, PROSECUTE THEM, BECAUSE THOSE KINDS OF PROSECUTIONS WILL MAKE OTHERS REALIZED THAT THIS IS REAL, THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, A GOOD PLAY OF WAR.

THE CALIFORNIA CASE IN 2013 AGAINST PG&E HAS NEVER BEEN SOLVED.

THAT IS A CHALLENGE.

IF YOU DO NOT SOLVE IT, THAT PEOPLE THINK THAT THERE IS AN OPENING.

THE OTHER IS TO CLEARLY MAKE IT HURT FOR THE COMPANY.

THEY KNOW WHAT THE THREAT ENVIRONMENT IS.

THEY CAN EITHER TRY TO GET CONGRESS TO RELATE AND INCREASE THAT FOR, WHICH WILL COST MONEY, BUT CERTAINLY NOT PROHIBITED, BUT SANDBAGS ARE NOT EXPENSIVE, OR IF THEY DO GET ATTACKED, TO FIND THEM OR OTHER PENALTIES TO GET THE INDUSTRY TO REALIZE THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES FOR THESE VULNERABILITIES.

LOOK, THEY ARE MONOPOLIES, RICH MONOPOLIES.

THEY BENEFIT FROM PROVIDING SERVICES TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, BUT THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL THAT COMES WITH THAT COMMERCIAL MARKET.

ONE QUESTION I THINK A GOOD NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING RIGHT NOW IS WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WEATHER THIS IS A CRIMINAL ACT , OR WHETHER THIS IS AN ACT OF TERROR?

THERE REALLY IS NO DIFFERENCE IN BOTH EXPOSING THE VULNERABILITY THE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, KNOWING HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO GET A BACKUP, AND IT PROVIDES A LESSON, WHATEVER THE MOTIVATION IS FOR US OR OTHERS , WHO MAY BE INTERESTED IN DOING THE SAME KIND OF ATTACKS WHETHER THEY ARE FOREIGN-BASED OR DOMESTIC BASED . SO A LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED.

IT HAS BEEN CROSSED RARELY, WE HAVE ONLY HAD 1 TO 2 IN THE LAST DECADE, DECADE AND A HALF, IT IS NOT A GOOD LINE TO CROSS.

YOU WANT TO PROSECUTE.

THE DIFFERENCE ON MOTIVATION, WHETHER IT IS A CRIMINAL ACT RACIALLY IDEOLOGICALLY POLITICALLY MOTIVATED WILL BE BOTH IN WHAT FEDERAL STATUTES YOU CAN PROSECUTE AGAINST THESE PEOPLE.

THEY MAY INCLUDE A CLINICAL MOTIVATION OR SOME OTHER MOTIVATION.

OF COURSE, THE SECOND THING.

I DO BELIEVE THAT TOUGH CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS AGAINST PEOPLE THAT WOULD ATTACK OUR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THEIR IDEOLOGICAL PURPOSES IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

WHAT IT SAYS TO OTHERS WHO MIGHT BE ATTRACTED TO DOING THAT , THIS IS REAL, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

THIS IS CONSISTENT ANY SORT OF COUNTER STRATEGY AGAINST FORCES THAT WOULD USE VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES, WE SEE IT WITH THE JANUARY 6th PROSECUTION, AND WE SHOULD SEE IT AGAINST PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY ARE BEING SHOOTING AT SUBSTATIONS, BUT YOU'VE GOT LOTS OF KIDS WHO CANNOT GO TO SCHOOL RIGHT NOW, AND LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SHELTERS THAT ARE IMPACTED BY THIS KIND OF CONDUCT.

THERE IS ALSO THE COMPOUNDING EFFECT OF THE ENVIRONMENT ITSELF.

THAT IS RIGHT.

LOOK, THE RISKS ARE PLENTIFUL AGAINST THESE NETWORKS.

ONE WILL CLEARLY BE THE CYBER RISK.

THE SECOND WE HAVE SEEN IN NORTH CAROLINA IS THE PHYSICAL RISK.

THESE ARE JUST VULNERABLE SYSTEMS.

THE THIRD IS THE CLIMATE RISK.

THESE SYSTEMS WERE BUILT, OUR WIRES ARE ABOVE GROUND, OUR SYSTEMS GET FLOODED, ELECTRICAL SUBSTATIONS GET SURROUNDED BY WATER, HURRICANES, TORNADOES , OTHER NATURAL DISASTERS THAT ARE REOCCURRING FASTER AND MORE DEADLY , THE IMPACTING CRITICAL INFO STRUCTURE.

AND THERE'S A POINT OF FAILURE.

BECAUSE THESE ARE MONOPOLIES, THERE IS NO REDUNDANCY IN THE SYSTEM.

IT IS NOT LIKE YOU CAN CALL YOUR WIRES IN HERE, WE HAVE BUILT NO REDUNDANCIES.

YOU CAN EITHER WORRY ABOUT RIGHT WING EXTREMIST OR FOREIGN COUNTRIES, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE THAT THESE SYSTEMS ARE GOING DOWN, AND WE NEED TO INVEST IN MAKING THEM MORE RESILIENT TO THE FREQUENCY OF DISASTERS, OR ANY THREAT THAT THEY ARE LIKELY TO FACE.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THE RUSSIAN INVASION , WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT THEIR POTENTIAL FOR CYBER ATTACKS.

WHY ARE WE SEEING MORE OF THE EXAMPLES THAT WE WERE STARTING TO PREPARE FOR?

THERE ARE GENERALLY THREE EXPLANATIONS OF PEOPLE HEREABOUTS.

THE FIRST IS THAT, YOU KNOW, PUTIN IS NOT AS STRONG MILITARILY OR WITH HIS CYBER WEAPONRY THAN WE THOUGHT A YEAR AGO . AS EXPERTS SUGGEST, GIVEN WHAT IS HAPPENING IN UKRAINE , THAT PUTIN CANNOT BE MORE BARK THAN BITE.

THE SECOND IS THAT UKRAINE AND NATO, IN PARTICULAR , HAVE BEEN PREPARED . THEY HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT HOW TO PROTECT THEIR SYSTEMS , BECAUSE OF THE CYBER ATTACKS THAT HAVE BEEN OCCURRING IN THE YEARS BEFORE.

IT WAS NOT LIKE THIS.

THE PHYSICAL INVASION WAS THE BEGINNING OF RUSSIA'S HOSTILITIES AGAINST UKRAINE.

THERE IS A LOT TO THAT.

BUT WHAT I BELIEVE IS THAT NATO WAS VERY SMART AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS WAR , TO BASICALLY SAY THAT AN ATTACK , A CYBER ATTACK ON CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IS THE SAME AS A PHYSICAL ATTACK AGAINST CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

PUTIN PIPES --PUTIN BOMBED THE PIPELINES IN GERMANY, OR ANY OTHER NATIVE COUNTRY AND NOT ANY MORE THAN YOU COULD A CYBER ATTACK.

THEY WERE CONSISTENT ON THIS MESSAGING.

THAT CYBER ATTACKS WOULD INVOKE ARTICLE 5, WHICH WOULD THEN INVOKE ALL OF NATO IN A RESPONSE.

THE INTERESTING THING THAT THEY DID THOUGH , OR AT LEAST THE LEADERSHIP OF NATO, THEY NEVER MADE IT THERE WHAT WOULD CONSTITUTE A SIGNIFICANT CYBER ATTACK AGAINST CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE . THAT WAS SMART.

HE GAVE THEM A LITTLE BIT OF ROOM THAT THEY WERE NOT GOING TO GO TO WAR EVERY TIME SOME HACKER OR RANSOMWARE PERSON LOCATED FROM RUSSIA TRY TO GET INTO A BANKING OR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.

BUT THEY LEFT IT OPEN THAT THEY WOULD BE PREPARED TO RESPOND IN KIND, WHETHER THAT WOULD BE DEFENSE OF A CYBER ATTACK OR SOMETHING MORE SIGNIFICANT.

IF RUSSIA IMPACTED CIVILIAN LIVES IN EUROPE.

YOU CANNOT ATTACK A CYBER SYSTEM , WHOSE RESULT IS THAT , YOU KNOW , A PARENT CANNOT GET WATER FOR THEIR CHILDREN , AND THINK THAT IS NOT AN ACT OF WAR.

I THINK THEY MADE THAT CLEAR.

WHEN YOU LOOK OUT AT THE LANDSCAPE OF TOOLS THAT IS HAD NOTE TO CONDUCT PHYSICAL ATTACKS , WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING, YOU KNOW, IMAGES FROM UKRAINE.

WHERE UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS USED DRONES . SOMETIMES OFF THE SHOW , TO BE ABLE TO SPOT WHERE THE ENEMY IS, ET CETERA.

WE HAVE SEEN CASES OF DRONES BEING USED IN ATTACKS.

THEY ARE ACTUALLY JUST TEARING --

THAT IS RIGHT.

THIS IS ALSO WHAT KIDS ARE ASKING FOR SOME HOLIDAYS.

> THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT YOU CAN IMAGINE WOULD BE USED AGAINST CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT ENERGY.

THINK ABOUT DAMS, WATER, CHEMICAL FACILITIES.

WHETHER IT IS SOPHISTICATED OR UNSOPHISTICATED DRONES , GUNS, AND IMPROVISED EXPRESSIVE DEVICES THAT COULD BE THROWN IN SOMEWHERE, HONESTLY, IN THE CALIFORNIA CASE , SCISSORS TO CUT THE WIRE.

SO WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE LIMITLESS THREATS AND MEANS TO EFFECTUATE ATTACKS ON CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND THAT IS WHY WHAT THESE COMPANIES AND REGULARS NEED TO FOCUS ON HIS WHAT WOULD HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT IF, IN FACT, IT WENT DOWN.

WE WANT TO FOCUS ON WHAT WE CALL THOSE SINGLE POINTS OF FAILURE.

THOSE SUBSTATIONS, IF SOMEONE WERE ABLE TO SHOOT, YOU WILL KNOCK OUT 30 OR 40,000 PEOPLE , AND YOU TRY TO FORTIFY THOSE BETTER.

OF COURSE, ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU TRY TO PROSECUTE OR MAKE THE COMPANY GET AT PROTECTING ITS CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE ARE NEVER GOING TO GET THE VULNERABILITY DOWN TO 0. NOT WITH THE NETWORKS THAT WE HAVE.

NOR WITH THE INCREASING TOOLS AND INSTRUMENTS THAT BAD ACTORS , OR ACTORS WITH WHATEVER IT IS LIKE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURES ARE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY IN TERMS OF CREATING SOME FORM, BUT ALSO , PROVIDING BEST PRACTICES AND TRAINING AND OTHER SERVICES TO THESE COMPANIES SO THAT THEY TAKE SERIOUSLY WHAT IS THEIR VULNERABILITY.

ONE SOLUTION THROWN OUT THERE IS THAT THESE BOARDS OF THESE COMPANY'S ARE OFTEN FILLED WITH FRIENDS AND RICH FRIEND OF MAJOR CRITICAL INFO STRUCTURE COMPANIES, LIKE ENERGY COMPANIES, GAS COMPANIES, OFFSHORE DRILLING COMPANIES . SO ONE SOLUTION THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED IS THAT THE BOARDS, ESPECIALLY OF THESE PUBLIC COMPANIES, THEY HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WITHIN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OR PREPAREDNESS PHASE ON THEIR BOARD , ENSURING THAT THESE COMPANIES TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

THESE ARE NOT JUST FOR PROFIT COMPANIES.

THEY SERVE A PUBLIC SERVICE.

OF THE SERVICE.

BUT THEY NEED TO TAKE SERIOUSLY THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE THE MOST BASIC OF MEASURES TO PROTECT THE SYSTEM.

FINALLY TONIGHT, TREVOR NOAH FAREWELL TO THE DAILY SHOW.

HE IS STEPPING DOWN AFTER SEVEN YEARS WITH THE PROGRAM ON COMEDY CENTRAL.

TO MASK HIS DEPARTURE TOMORROW, WE WILL BE TAKING A LOOK BACK AT SOME OF THE MOMENTS FROM OUR CONVERSATIONS OVER THE YEARS.

LIKE THIS LOGIC, WHEN I ASKED TREVOR ABOUT HIS MOTHER BACK IN SOUTH AFRICA.

HOW DID SHE MAKE YOU A MAN?

I THINK --WOW.

BY SHARING ALL OF LIFE'S MESSES WITH ME.

MY MOM ALWAYS TREATED ME AS THE ADULT SHE WANTED ME TO BECOME.

WAS ABOUT HAVING AN EQUAL IN A RELATIONSHIP.

SEEKING OUT SOMEONE WHO IS AN EQUAL.

SEEKING OUT A SPACE WHERE TWO PEOPLE OF EQUAL STANDING CAN BENEFIT EACH OTHER USING THEIR DIFFERENT SKILLS.

SO, YOU KNOW, SHE TAUGHT ME TO BE INDEPENDENT.

WHAT A GREAT TEACHER HE HAD.

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JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.