Mayor of El Paso: The U.S. Immigration System Is “Broken”

GOLODRYGA, HOST: Well, days after the expiration of Title 42, migrant crossing the southern U.S. border are surprisingly low, but officials say that the situation is still very fluid and preparing for a potential surge to come. Mayors from New York, Los Angeles, Houston, and Denver have requested a meeting with President Biden for more support as they brace for more migrants. Meanwhile, El Paso’s mayor, Oscar Leeser, declared a state of emergency before the pandemic era policy ended. And he joins Walter Isaacson to discuss the situation at the border.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WALTER ISAACSON, HOST: Thank you, Bianna. And Mayor Oscar Leeser, welcome to the show.

MAYOR OSCAR LEESER, EL PASO, TEXAS: Thank you.

ISAACSON: So, Title 42, which was a way of restricting immigration during the COVID emergency ended last Thursday. You’re the mayor of El Paso. You said over the weekend you did not see an expected big influx of new immigrants. What’s the situation now and what is happening?

LEESER: You know, we saw it prior to the expiration of Title 42 and we have a big influx prior to midnight, but after that the numbers have really gone down. So, on Saturday, we had a total of 405. And on Sunday, we had 381, which is way down from, you know, the numbers we used to be seeing. Back in December we saw well over 2,500 a day.

ISAACSON: So, why is that?

LEESER: Well, a lot of them are coming in prior to the expiration of Title 42 and a lot of them came in — which is very unfortunate, they came in with the understanding that if they were in here prior to the expiration of Title 42 that they would be able to get political asylum. And the borders were closed in and the borders continue to be closed.

And then, the second part is the difference between Title 42 and Title 8. On Title 42 that you would — you could come back in as many times as you want with no consequences. On Title 8, if you do come in and you’re not following the immigration laws and coming through the legal path and you returned then you have to wait five years minimum to be able to return back into the U.S. If you get — the second time that you — you will not have the opportunity to return again.

ISAACSON: So, explain to me Title 8. That’s always been around, but now it’s something that’s been enforced sort of in lieu of Title 42. I know we’re talking a whole lot about titles, but this is part of the immigration acts and it’s saying, this rule is one we’re going to enforce now. So, explain that to us.

LEESER: Well, the City of El Paso does not enforce any immigration laws. We’re here to assist and work with Border Patrol and Customs. And so, that’s a law that’s been in effect since 1940. And like I said, you know, we’re here to help and make sure that our asylum seekers continue to be treated in a very respectful way and continue to work to make sure they’re safe, but also the citizens of the City of El Paso.

ISAACSON: So, this Title 8 has been around for 80 years, why did it not help in the past restrict some of this immigration?

LEESER: Well, because we all know that the federal immigration process is broken and it needs to be fixed. And, you know, if you ask me, what do you hope for now that the numbers are down and the numbers are there that somebody comes up with a long-term solution to work on in fixing the immigration system in the United States.

ISAACSON: So, let’s drill down on that. What would you do to fix the immigration system?

LEESER: Well, one of the things, I think, that’s really, really important right now that we need to fix is to make sure we get additional judges to expedite. We need to really expedite the time where it takes from someone comes in through the immigration process, the legal process, and then they get a court date. Once they get that court date, it could be four or five years. I really believe it needs to be a lot quicker. And while they’re waiting for the court process, I would like to see people have the opportunity to go to work and continue to work. There’s a lot of people that need jobs and we have a lot of people that would love to hire a lot of these people. So, I think it’s really important that we continue to expedite the process and work forward.

Now, what I do in Washington? That’s something that — you know, I don’t have all the facts. I have been working with them, but I really believe that we need to learn to disagree as far as Congress and senators are concerned and learn to compromise to come up with a process that’s really going to help not only the United States but the countries around us.

ISAACSON: You’ve been working with a lot of your fellow mayors along the border, you’re a Texas politician so you know politicians of both parties there. Do you think that if people like yourself came up with the plan, you could come up with a plan that could be passed in Washington?

LEESER: Well, I think we all need to work together, and I don’t think one person coming up with the plan. I can tell you I live it every day. I live it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And I see what we do and I see how we work with people.

But we — you know, the biggest thing that I would love to see is to continue to work how we can make sure that people are treated totally with respect and continue to be treated that way. Yes, we all need to work together.

Yes. I mean, the border mayors have all been talking and we continue to talk, but we’re talking about how we can continue to work together for the current crises not, you know, how we’re going to fix the immigration process because, again, that goes to Washington, and we’re not here to implement or to do immigration law, we’re here to help them and assist them, but also continue to work in our local laws to make sure our citizens also continue to be safe.

ISAACSON: So, you’re talking about fixing, in the long-term, the immigration issue, a comprehensive immigration reform bill at some point. Is that something that should be connected to border security or should we get border security right first before we try comprehensive immigration reform?

LEESER: You know, and that’s going to be up to them, what’s the best way to do it first and how do we work it and how do we make sure that we can do that in a timely manner. And, you know, I’m not here to tell them what to do, I can just tell them what live through and what we see every day, and we would love to see that a long-term solution come through in — you know, now than later.

ISAACSON: You say you would love to tell them what you are living through every day, what you’re seeing every day. Well, tell us, what are you living through each day?

LEESER: Well, we see every day that people are coming to the United States, they’re not coming to El Paso, they’re coming to the Unites State. They are bringing their family or they come by themselves, and they’re here for a better life for themselves or a better life for their families, and how we can help them and work that.

We talk to them. We see them. I travel into Mexico quite often. We were there, you know, the day before Title 42 expired to the people that were waiting and ready to cross. I went to the shelters in Mexico, and there was 20 people at the second largest shelter in Juarez, and they’re all at the border ready to come in, they’re ready to come in, their opportunity could. That night before Title 42 expired, it was 1,800. So, we see that every day. But when we talk to them, they all want to go to work. The mayor of New York came down and he talked to them and he asked them, how many of you all would want to go to work? And every one of them raise their hand because they are ready to go to work, they want to make a better life for their families and themselves.

ISAACSON: But these are supposed to be asylum seekers. How many of them are really asylum seekers and how many just want to come here for better jobs?

LEESER: That’s something that, you know, the federal government has to determine and that’s not something that we determine. We do treat people with compassion and we do people — treat people the way we want to be treated. And we talk to them about what they are looking for and why they’re here and what they want to.

Now, the federal government has its process and that’s something that, again, we don’t implement and that’s something that they look at and that’s why we want to see more immigration judges to be able to determine and work and do it in a more — in a lot quicker matter and also, allow people to go to work.

ISAACSON: Tell us what it’s like in El Paso in the past few weeks, on a day-to-day basis. You had a lot of people coming in right before the end of Title 42. You have them in churches and in schools. What do you do with — and to make sure that they feel comfortable?

LEESER: Well, again, our job is to assist. So, we’ve had a lot of law enforcement that has worked together and come together. And not one person, not the mayor, not the county judge, not one person has really done it. We’ve all done it together as one, whether it’s school security, whether it’s CBP, whether it’s custom, we’ve all worked together. And you’ve seen — because we’ve worked together, it was a very orderly system once Title 42 expired and it will continue to be that way. But our community knows that our priority as elected officials is our community and we’ll continue to do that, but also to make sure that our asylum seekers are treated in a respectful way, but also to make sure that our community is safe.

ISAACSON: One of the things that’s happened is many of these asylum seekers have families somewhere else, jobs, perhaps, they want to go to, and you are helping send transportation so that they can go up north, up to New York. And others are being transported without any real place to go, but they are being sent on buses. How do you make those decisions and how do people in Texas make those decisions of who gets bussed out of — or transported out of Texas?

LEESER: Well, I can’t tell you how the people in Texas do it, but I can tell you how the people in El Paso do it. And the people in El Paso make sure that people are not treated as pawns, people are treated with respect and we want to help them unite with their families, we want to help them unite with their friends or where they have a job. And so, when they ask us to help, and we help them in that manner, we never send anyone where they wouldn’t want to go.

ISAACSON: You said that Mayor Eric Adams came down to visit you in El Paso. He toured the border. Tell me what you all talked about.

LEESER: Well, we talked about the process and what’s going on. And he got to be able to talk to the asylum seekers and went through our processing centers, he went to the NGOs. He sat there and actually talked to the asylum seekers and asked them, why do you want to go to New York? Why are you in the United States? So, he was — he — actually, I was very thankful for him to come here and really do see how we do every day processing, how we do what we do every day, and I consider Mayor Adams a friend.

ISAACSON: What’s happening in El Paso now for accommodating the people who have come through? Do you have enough hospital beds, for example? Do you have enough centers for people to be sheltered? Do you have enough schools if they want to stay there?

LEESER: You know, right now, we’ve had resources that we need from the federal government. Secretary Mayorkas and the Biden administration have really provided the resources that we’ve needed to be able to provide these services. Like I said, because at the beginning, when we talked about, they are not coming to El Paso, they are coming to the United States, and they have provided funding that we needed to make sure we do that. Right now, the numbers are way down, as we talked about at the beginning of the show. We talked about 381 people that came into El Paso, that’s moving through the United States yesterday alone, which, in comparison, the 2,500 that used to be on a daily basis.

ISAACSON: What else do you need from the federal government then?

LEESER: Well, right now, we are preparing for the unknown. We don’t know what’s going to come in right behind. We don’t what’s going on tomorrow. So, we continue to prepare and, you know, we have an open line of communication and we will continue to have that open line of communication but we need to continue to have that line of communication because we don’t know what the unknown is following behind. So, I am very thankful, and they’ve been — they’ve worked very well with our community, and I know they’ve worked well. I talked to some of the mayors across the state, and they continue to work with them also.

ISAACSON: Vice President Kamala Harris was, at one point, designated to look at this overall problem. To what extent has she been involved?

LEESER: I have not had that conversation and that’s — I have not spoken to Vice President Harris, but I have spoken to the White House on a — almost basically a daily basis, that continues to provide the service and they’ve always been able to — I’ve always been able to work with them and give us the resources we’ve needed.

ISAACSON: You say you talk to the White House on an almost daily basis, who are you talking to there? What type of services are they providing? How quickly are they responding?

LEESER: You know, we talk to people from the Department of Homeland Security for the most part. And so, the things need is help. A lot of times with decompression. Decompression as being able to help us move, you know, our asylum seekers to the next destination or processing. Things to help with processing. And they’ve never not helped us to do that, and to make sure our border continues.

Like you said, the border is not open. They weren’t open then, they’re not open today. And they’ve continued to help us with our border patrol and make sure that we have enough men and women to help us do the job we need to do.

ISAACSON: You say that the borders are not open, Secretary Mayorkas has said that. There’s been a lot of pushbacks from Republicans. On the other hand, you know, there is a sense that there’s a border security that’s pretty strong. Do you think the borders are secure? Do you think they are open or is it somewhere in between?

LEESER: No, the borders are closed. And they’ve given us the resources to continue to make sure that we help the asylum seekers when they come into the United States. But the borders were closed yesterday and the borders remain closed today.

ISAACSON: The federal government has sent in 1,500 troops. What are the troops doing down there?

LEESER: What they did was to continue to — you know, to assist and help the Border Patrol and Customs. They are not here to implement federal law. They are not here to implement immigration law. They are here to assist them and help them, you know, whether it’s in the office, whether it’s, you know, preparing for the day, whatever it may be, but they’re not here to implement federal immigration laws.

ISAACSON: There is the Title 8, we’ve discussed, that has an expedited removal process, that seems to have turned the tide a bit on what people are thinking. Do you think there’s been some shift in the Biden administration to be a little bit tougher about border security?

LEESER: I think they are using the laws that are within, you know, our country. But they know that things need to change and that things continue to change. So, I mean, you are asking me what they think, I can’t tell you what they think, but I can tell you that it’s made a difference in the last couple days as the numbers that I’ve been able to share with you.

ISAACSON: Mayor Leeser, you were born in Mexico and you moved to the U.S. as a child. You are the first elected mayor of El Paso to be born, you know, out of the country. How does your personal journey help inform what you are doing now?

LEESER: Well, I’m very thankful for all of the opportunities I’ve had in, you know, coming as a young boy, didn’t speak a word of English and going through the school system and going through the — you know, and having the opportunity to work in here and raise a family has been very important, and that’s why I believe that everybody needs to be treated with respect.

And I’ve always been raised that you treat people the way you want to be treated, and you’ll never be disappointed. In our community in El Paso, it’s a community with a huge heart and they’ve opened their hearts to our asylum seekers and continue to provide food, clothing and we’ll continue to do that.

One of the things I did want to discuss with you that was important that we did open up some — two schools that have been closed down. We were able to work where we could take over these school that were not being used and provide sheltering for our asylum seekers to help them go to their next destination. They’re staying in these schools between four to 72 hours.

ISAACSON: Mayor Oscar Leeser, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.

LEESER: Thank you. You have a great day, sir. Bye-bye.