“Rustin” Brings a Civil Rights Hero Out of the Shadows

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, just moments ago, we saw the first pictures of Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter at the tribute service for his wife, Former First Lady Rosalynn Carter. Jimmy Carter turned 99 in October. He and Rosalynn were married 77 years ago. And later, we will speak to James Fallows, who was Carter’s former chief speechwriter in the ’70s and remained a close friend. But now, we want to turn to the story of a man central to the civil rights movement whose name you may never have heard. Bayard Rustin was a key organizer of the 1963 March on Washington, a confidant of Martin Luther King Jr. and a tireless advocate for equality. He was also openly gay. Barack and Michelle Obama are working to restore the civil rights legend’s rightful place in history with their new Netflix film called “Rustin.” Its star, award-winning actor Colman Domingo, is getting rave reviews for his performance. And here he is speaking with Hari Sreenivasan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARI SREENIVASAN, CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, thanks. Colman Domingo, thanks so much for joining us. First off, for those in our audience that don’t know who Bayard Rustin was, you play him, you did the homework, who was he?

COLMAN DOMINGO, ACTOR, “RUSTIN”: Bayard Rustin was a young quaker from Westchester, Pennsylvania. He was a young communist at a time. He was — he played the loot. He sang Elizabethan love songs. He was one of the most strategic minds and a great organizer. And in 1963, he did the monumental task with he and a group of what he called Young Angelic Troublemakers. They were the architects for the March on Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINGO: We are going to put together the largest peaceful protest in the history of this nation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How big?

DOMINGO: 100, 000 people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he for real?

DOMINGO: A massive two day demonstration with enough power to shut down the White House and Capitol Hill, made up of Angelic Troublemakers such as yourselves with ideas so bold, so inspiring. The execution will demand all groups draw tightly together and become one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SREENIVASAN: So, why is it that we don’t know about them? Why is it that it’s just not common knowledge in high school history books when we do read about the March on Washington?

DOMINGO: What I like to believe is, is that his — he has such an impact and he was such a great civil rights activist and organizer and strategic human, fascinating guy. But I think he was marginalized because he was openly gay. That’s very clear to me that he was all but erased from the history books and his significance of what he did.

SREENIVASAN: Being openly gay in that era is a whole different thing than being openly gay today. I mean, there were so many other challenges that he was facing kind of simultaneously.

DOMINGO: Well, the thing is this man was fighting for not only, you know, civil rights, but human rights. And he was being exactly who he was in the world. You know, like why I mentioned why he was a young — a Quaker, is like he grew up with his grandmother. They were very supportive of him just being who he was in the world. So, that was part of his North Star. So, he didn’t think it was something that was — should — something he’d be ashamed of in any single way. But we do know at that time, you know, being openly anything, being openly gay in particular, would cause harm to your — not only your body, but also to your livelihood. You could lose your job. There was no protections in any way. So, therefore, he had to stay subverted in many ways. So, I think that that’s exactly — that was part of his struggle. And — but yet, still, the one thing you couldn’t deny was how smart the man was, and how courageous he was, and how he was — everyone respected him in his mind, which is wild. They respected him. They called on him. He was the one who inspired Dr. King about Dr. King’s ideologies about passive resistance, these are things that Bayard Rustin learned, you know, from the teachings of Gandhi and Thoreau, and what, like he even says, even the teachings of Jesus. You know, so — which is wild. So, you look at history and the way history will shine the light on some and then suppress others, it’s a bare bones case of that.

SREENIVASAN: As the film points out, it’s not just the sort of the folks you expect to try to repress him or erase him, but it’s people from now what we would consider the more progressive corners of, say, the democratic political machine that didn’t want him to be the face of this event. They didn’t want the event.

DOMINGO: Martin Luther King, he fit that profile in many ways. There were other incredible leaders as well, men and women, who had incredible voices. Yet, for the movement, I think the movement wanted to gather and just say, this is exactly who we are. The other folks who didn’t fit that, and Bayard Rustin was very much an outlier in every single shape and form, the way he spoke, the way he moved through spaces, the way his hair looked, the way he was dressed, he was an outlier in every sense of the term. So — and also, Bayard was also — you know, he was — the struggle was not only with the outside forces like people like Strom Thurmond or Hoover who are using anything to make this movement fall apart, but also within his own — you know, with his own brotherhood, you know, whether with — the NAACP in particular, in our film Adam Clayton Powell in particular, does things, says things to discredit Bayard Rustin because, you know, it’s all about power in many ways.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINGO: Are they expecting my resignation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some are, yes.

DOMINGO: Then they’re going to have to fire me, because I will not resign. On the day that I was born black, I was also born a homosexual. They either believe in freedom and justice for all, or they do not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SREENIVASAN: Tell me about his relationship and friendship with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Because in the film it’s played out in an interesting way where really an allegation and an accusation made about them is used to, well, silence him politically.

DOMINGO: Yes, they were very close. They were like brothers. But of course, we have to examine that this friendship and this sort of tenderness between brothers who really believe in each other’s minds and beings was challenged with folks, you know, they didn’t understand a relationship between an openly gay man and a straight man. I think they could not think of anything but sex in between, instead of thinking, like, I know — it’s like, no, that’s a deep friendship and brotherhood. But because, again, it’s biases of the world and what they put on it. And then that was also threatening to not only within the movement, but it was threatening to outside the movement. People can use it in any way, shape or form and even lie about it. I think, you know, from what I know, I think there was a picture made like created of like Martin Luther King in the bathtub and by Rustin sitting in a chair nearby or something, to be suggestive, to see if it can be used to like discredit both of them, to bring down the movement. You know what I mean? There’s a lot of forces as much as we were coming together for the fight for civil rights, there were many forces that we’re trying to make it fall apart within the parties and outside of it as well. So, I think from what I knew in the way that Aml Ameen and I played it, Aml is Ronald McCain. He’s beautiful. And he’s playing Martin in a way as sort of as a young man who doesn’t have it all figured out just yet. So, you see the relationship that they had sort of teacher and student, which is what we wanted to experience. And then, also see how the thing that was important to us is to see the tenderness between these men, that one would never really imagine, the tenderness between these two. They had to be intimate to really support each other for the fight for civil rights. They had to. So, that’s what we wanted to explore. Intimate in the loving brotherhood sense, you know.

SREENIVASAN: So, tell me a little bit about what it’s like playing someone like Bayard Rustin when you are also a left-handed black gay man who would be 51 when you were acting this role?

DOMINGO: The similarities are staggering, and then the difference are also profound, but what we meet in the middle feels like — it feels so special and feels like the right thing and the right time. By Rustin, playing him came along at this perfect time in my life and career where I feel like, you know, it’s taken 32 years of work to pour into a character like this and to lead a film like this. This is — he has so much size and so much purpose and intent. He gave his life to — into the fight and struggle for civil rights. That’s something that many people can’t say. People — you know, people are activists when it’s convenient, but this person was like an activist always, even when he was in high school, you know, protesting lunches and things like that. But that’s exactly a dedication. So, I think it’s a profound privilege because I think that even as I find myself as an artist, finding even more mindfulness and intention with what I’m doing is even more important, especially in this phase of my career. So, I feel so blessed and so honored that I get to share with folks this man who is such a personal hero to the entire world. It’s an incredible honor.

SREENIVASAN: When did you first learn about him? Because as we just discussed, it’s — his history is not common knowledge.

DOMINGO: Well, I stumbled upon Bayard Rustin in college. Now, not even in a class or course. I joined the African American student union because I was very curious about, you know, discovering more of my history, having more, I don’t know, camaraderie with fellow African Americans. So, I joined the student union, and we were having a discussion about the civil rights movement. And then his name came up, sort of as a footnote. And it was a — because I think a few things came up, like, oh, Laker, Westchester, Pennsylvania, openly gay, organized the March on Washington. I was like, wait, what? And then even more so, he sang Elizabethan love songs. He played the lute. I was like, wait, who is this person? And how come I don’t know about him? That’s strange.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

DOMINGO: You know, I’m from Pennsylvania, but also, I just thought like, this is a profound human, why don’t we know his story? And then, the more digging I did, I finally realized why, I was like, oh, because he was openly gay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINGO: And whoever has direct dealings with Mr. Hoover let him know that on August 28th, black, white, young, old, rich, working class, poor will descend on Washington, D.C., and there’s nothing he can do to stop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SREENIVASAN: The pace at which the March on Washington was organized seems staggering on so many different levels, even without the kind of racial challenges that we might face today to try to pull together 100,000 humans to one location when not everybody can afford to fly. I mean, there’s just layer upon layer. And as I look at it, I’m like, and they did it seven weeks?

DOMINGO: Oh, yes, and they did it — let’s all remember, they did it without social media. They did it without clicking. It was really grassroots organizing at its best. And they did it in less than — in about seven weeks’ time. That’s outstanding. So, the idea of this strategist in his mind, he was like, no, we can galvanize and get all these groups, whether it’s the LCLC, the, you know, NAACP, you name it, all to come together. He really believed. I mean, I think that’s — it was outside of his — in his thinking, which is great. And also, he worked with a lot of young people because I think he also preferred working with young people because they’re not rigid. They have — they believe in possibility. They believe in the unexpected. They’re like, yes, let’s go on a ledge and believe that we can actually get this done, and they did it. But they also harnessed and galvanized unions and coalitions, which is something that — you know, I mean, they understood I have to gather people and invite the unions to be a part of this. Everyone is a part of this fight in some way, shape, or form. So, he knew those are the things and tactics that he knew. Very strategic, very detailed. He knew that he can get it done.

SREENIVASAN: So, what was tough as an actor? I mean, going through all of the materials, seeing pictures of him, seeing maybe video of him in different places. What did you pick up on? What was the hardest for you? Is it his physicality? Is it the accent?

DOMINGO: Well, you know, I’ve always done work when it comes to accent work, physical work. I come from the theater. So, I think that’s always been a part of what I do. And how — I’m a bit of a shape shifter, I know that, because I think that’s what I — I like to fully embody a character in every single way. So, those things I knew how to build. And I’m very rigorous in my work. So, I just work at it and work at it for hours upon hours. And because I just want to, you know, really honor and get it right and then recede because I don’t want people to see the work, I want to actually just see the person. That’s always been my goal.

SREENIVASAN: So, what kind of homework are you able to do? What is — what remains in the archives? What kinds of data were you able to pull up?

DOMINGO: The strangest thing is, there’s a lot, which is great. You know, yes, there’s books on his writings. I love — I think writing people’s letters are a great key to their mind and the way they think and the way they feel. You can find letters between he and Dr. King. You can find some interviews and some debates. And, you know, whether his debates were successful or not, but you just watch him work, you watch his — the way he speaks, which is actually about three octaves higher than mine in pitch. The way he moves his body through spaces, which is very sort of fluid and fantastic. And his fingers always move like birds. The way he smokes. So, you can, you can find a lot.

SREENIVASAN: You were able to meet with several people who knew Bayard. He passed away in 1987. Including one of his partners, organizers who knew him. What — how do they remember him today?

DOMINGO: Oh, man. I was just texting — I text Rachelle Horowitz all the time now. We’re very close. And I’m meeting with Walter Naegle for lunch, who’s Bayard’s partner. And they all remember him — first of all, the thing I must say, because it’s on my heart, that they were — they said that they’ve been getting lots of responses, people are calling them. And I think it feels like Bayard’s alive again. So, people are calling, oh, my gosh. That moment in particular, when Colman puts down his cigarette and stomps it out, I’ve witnessed that many times. Bayard did that. Did you know that? I was like, no. She said, there was something, she says, you must — and she said she’s not a spiritual person. She said, but there’s something spiritual around the portrayal. It feels like we’re calling on each other. And that’s what I feel. And they feel very proud of the film. They feel proud that his story is out there. His legacy is — and his importance is out in the world. Because I think that they’ve always looked at him as such a — he was always on their Mount Rushmore, and now we really do marvelize him now with our film. But we also make sure that it’s human, because he’s not a perfect person. He’s kind of messy at times in his private life, and that’s all to show a real full human being. So, they’re very happy. And that makes me happier because more than any criticism of the film in any shape or way or form, I feel like I needed to know that they knew that I took care of him more than anyone.

SREENIVASAN: Yes. He was posthumously given the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and President Obama and Michelle Obama are part of the sort of producing team of this. Do you have any idea if they’ve seen it, what their feedback is?

DOMINGO: They have seen it, loved it, clapped for it, introduced me to the HBCU First Look Film Festival because of it. They are such champions of this film and Bayard Rustin’s legacy. They couldn’t be more lovely and wonderful without making sure that, you know, Bayard Rustin is on everyone’s lips.

SREENIVASAN: What’s it mean to you as a person, as an actor, that you got to play somebody who’s become a personal hero to you? I mean, does it add, I don’t know, anxiety or stress to wanting to get it right because this is somebody you looked up to or how do you you process this?

DOMINGO: Oh, Hari, you know what, it was when I first offered this role, I thought I could go one or two ways. I could be terrified or I don’t have time to be terrified, I have to get down to work. That’s what I felt. I said, I have to get down to work and I have to work exceptionally hard because I know that that’s what my hero did. He worked exceptionally hard every single day to make this country a little better. And so, my job was just to stay focused in on that. I feel like I’ve been given such a gift, especially right now. When I want to film like this is out in the world, but I think we need to rally the spirits of people and let ordinary people know that they can make a difference just by showing up and being a part of it. I think we need it more than ever and I feel very, very blessed that it’s out right now, that I’ve been — that when people get to know who Bayard Rustin is, I’m the face of Bayard Rustin, that’s beautiful. I feel like I know for sure this goes down into my personal — my legacy. This is a legacy work, and I know it is. I look forward to, you know, children and children upon children, you know, learning about Bayard Rustin, and knowing that they think of me at the same time.

SREENIVASAN: Actor Colman Domingo who plays Rustin is on Netflix now. Thanks so much for joining us.

DOMINGO: Thank you, Hari.