“Gaza is on the Brink of Famine:” WFP’s Cindy McCain

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, now, Gazans are facing a desperate humanitarian crisis, with food shelves still empty and families struggling to feed themselves. Thousands were seen surrounding two aid trucks in Northern Gaza last month, as crucial food deliveries remain hindered by limited safe access into the Strip. According to the World Food Programme, Executive Director Cindy McCain, the territory is reaching a tipping point. She speaks to Walter Isaacson about the dire situation in conflict zones and why food insecurity is a global concern.

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WALTER ISAACSON, CO-HOST, AMANPOUR AND CO.: Thank you, Bianna. And Cindy McCain, welcome back to the show.

CINDY MCCAIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: My pleasure. Thank you.

ISAACSON: Secretary of State Tony Blinken, just a few days ago, was in a World Food Programme warehouse in Jordan, talking about how important what you all are doing in helping Gaza. Tell me about the situation there.

MCCAIN: Oh, gosh. In all the years that most of the very senior people that work for me have been doing this, they’ve never seen anything quite like this. Gaza is on the brink of famine. We — the things that we’re asking for with regards to WFP and feeding people are safe access, to be able to get our trucks in, and the ability to be deconflicted so that we can work safely with — when we’re on the ground there. It’s a mess. And more importantly in this, until we get more access, that means more gates, more routes in the country and in a faster and better way, we’re not going to be able to feed people.

ISAACSON: Well, Secretary of State Blinken, as I said, was just at one of the warehouses in Jordan. Then he went to visit Israel, visit Prime Minister Netanyahu. Has he been helping you to push for access?

MCCAIN: Yes. Secretary Blinken’s been wonderful. He’s been helping, you know, certainly carrying our message and the message of others as well, and the importance of why it’s necessary that we get in. Again, we are trying to stave off famine in Gaza. And unless we can get in there and begin to feed in a large manner and in a way that can — not just in the shelters, but in communities around it, that — where people have been pushed into, we’re not going to be able to save lives. We have little children now that are really starving to death, and we have families that are desperate. You hear about the trucks being raided or you hear about the disruption, you know, the unrest that’s going on, people are desperate. As you know, you will do anything to feed your family. And that’s why this so important that we be able to get in and make sure that we can feed people.

ISAACSON: The chief economist of the World Food Programme said that of the 2.2 million people in Gaza now, there is a high chance of famine, that there’s a food insecurity crisis going on. Explain to me what that means.

MCCAIN: Well, it means that — yes, I’ll put it — take it down to very simple tones here. So, there’s a family, let’s say, of eight people and six of those are kids. Well, the parents are not going to feed themselves if their only option is to feed their children. They’re making hard choices about who and how to feed, how much to feed. And so, that — and just access to be able to get the food number, you know, it — just from a bottom-line standpoint. These are the kind of choices that these people are up against right now, and these are the kinds of things that we at WFP are trying desperately to make sure that we can help, help not just in the short-term, but in the long-term also.

ISAACSON: How much food is getting into Gaza and is there enough food if you could just get the entry into the trucks into Gaza?

MCCAIN: Yes, there is enough access to food. We are beginning to put a sizable amount together. We are — we’ve already started it. It is not complete yet. But that amount of food that — when we do put this in place, can feed Gaza for three months, the entire population of Gaza. So, the — that’s why the access is so important. If we can get in there in a major way to not just feed, but make sure that the food is first emergency food and then a food that’s more subsistent for a long-term. Right now, we’re giving out emergency rations, and we need to do much more of that, especially when we’re talking about young children. As you know, UNICEF has talked about this a great deal, and the issues that we’re having with our very young children as a result of it.

ISAACSON: Human Rights Watch has accused Israel of using starvation as a weapon of war. Is that true?

MCCAIN: I can’t answer that question. All we’re trying to do is deal with what we know is happening right now on the ground, and as we need to get in and feed. The important part of all this making sure that the world understands the desperation that’s involved here. And so, I’ll leave those discussions for our politicians and for our U.N. hierarchy. But what I need right now is safe access and the ability to get in and feed.

ISAACSON: There are more than 300 million people around the world who face starvation, food crises. What’s the cause of that? Is it a lack of food or is it a lack of the ability to get food to the right place?

MCCAIN: It is a combination of things. And I’ll start with climate change. A large portion of Africa is in this kind of food desperation because of climate change. And climate change has been a disaster. And I’ll speak specifically to the Sahel right now. It’s — with the lack of rain, the lack of ability to be able to plant crops and grow crops, people are starving to death. And so, it’s up to organizations like ours to get in again and feed them. This — the situation worldwide is desperate. We’re not looking at just a few countries, we’re looking at many countries that don’t have the ability to adequately feed their populations. And that’s where WFP comes into play.

ISAACSON: I was reading the WFP website, which I suggest all of our viewers do. And besides climate change, it says, the biggest driver is conflict. Tell me what —

MCCAIN: Yes.

ISAACSON: Yes. Tell me about that.

MCCAIN: Well, conflicts have caused — has caused a great deal of this. And I’ll speak now to Sudan especially, because as you — we’re all aware of what has occurred in Sudan. But as a result of that, the refugee flow has been astronomical, going into Chad and Ethiopia and other countries within the region. And we’ve had to make some very tough decisions, WFP, I mean, have had to make some very tough decisions because we don’t have the funding. And so, I’ve had to deal with in my own mind, taking food from hungry to give to the starving. And that’s a decision that we have to make almost every day. And so, places like Chad, like Haiti, like DRC Congo, like Somalia, regions like that are — we just don’t — we’re spread thin and we just don’t have the money. We had plenty of funding several years ago, but we don’t have the money now. And so, I’m having to make some very serious, tough decisions.

ISAACSON: Tell me about who’s getting cut because of these decisions.

MCCAIN: Well, we’re shortening rations. So, in some areas, we used to give rations that would last a year. Now, we’re down — then we reduce it to six months. And now, we’ve reduced it in some cases to zero. And Afghanistan’s a good description of that. We can’t — we just don’t have the money to be able to feed everyone. So, we’re having to cut people from the rolls and cut people from access to food. I was standing in a line with a woman, I was in South Sudan, and I watched, she was pregnant. And I watched her, the gentleman behind the desk say, your rations are up. I can’t give you any more. And I mean, she was pregnant and had two young children. These are the kinds of decisions we’re having to make, and we shouldn’t have to make those. I — you know, I continue to raise the flag around the world about the desperation, the importance of why we need to feed and why we need to be in there, and why we need the money to do it.

ISAACSON: The WFP faces a $15 billion shortfall this coming year.

MCCAIN: Yes.

ISAACSON: Why do we face such a shortfall of funding?

MARTIN: I think a lot of people are — a lot of countries, I should say, have — they’re weary. You know, we’ve seen crisis after crisis after crisis, and their own constituencies are saying, enough, let’s pay attention to our own home. And I certainly understand that. But still, it doesn’t make these starving people go away, is things just don’t disappear. So, I do the very best I can to make sure that people understand what’s going on around the world and why it’s important that we continue to do this, because if we’re not going to feed them now, conflict’s going to take over, the bad guys are going to roll in, and then we’ve got an even bigger problem. So, that’s why I continue to do what we do. Hopefully testify in front of Congress, speak to. I’m going to Davos this coming weekend to talk about this crisis worldwide and why we need to be extra diligent about what we do and why it’s important that we give even more.

ISAACSON: You’ve just made the connection between feeding people and national security.

MCCAIN: Yes.

ISAACSON: It’s something I’ve heard you talk about quite a bit. Explain why this not just a humanitarian issue, but a national security issue.

MCCAIN: Well, it is. I mean, you talk about — I’ll talk about a place like Somalia or I’ll talk about a place, again, like the Sahel and some of the other regions in there. Without adequate food, people will — as I said, will do anything. And it makes it easier for the bad guys to roll in, and that becomes a national security issue. That’s a national security issue for the United States of America as well. So, I appeal to my own government and the governments around the world to look at it from a national security perspective, because if we don’t feed them, the bad guys are going to get right in there and make sure that they do feed them.

ISAACSON: How is the best way to make sure that we don’t have food insecurity and food problems? Is it giving away food or is there a deeper solution to the problem?

MCCAIN: Well, we have to approach the root cause of it. You know, is it climate change? Is it conflict? Is it, you know, the cost also” Cost is a big deliver in this as well. There — we need to get at the root causes. Teaching people, not just teaching people how to farm, but giving them the tools and the water to do so. In many cases, it comes down to water. So, it — and I think from a worldwide standpoint, I really talk a great deal about this when I’m out and about, because it is important that we take a look at the root causes and make sure that we can address them aside from just giving food, but making sure that we can make them self- sufficient.

ISAACSON: So, what are you all doing to do that? So, it’s not just a food giveaway program.

MCCAIN: Right.

ISAACSON: In fact, some would argue food giveaways could be harmful in the long run.

MCCAIN: Right.

ISAACSON: So, tell me what you’re doing to face that.

MCCAIN: Well, again, we have lots of different programs going on around the world. And I’ll use Central America, the dry zone as a good example of this. We’re — as I said, we’re giving people the tools. So, what does that mean? Making sure that they have land to farm on, making sure that they have access to seed and to and to water, most importantly, and making sure that they can get them to the market. And so, it’s a matter of just supporting and giving them the ability to be able to do it themselves. No one wants to leave their homes. No one wants to not be able to feed their family. So, for us to be able to get — to put programs in place, to be able to do just that is — has been very successful around the world. And also, a thing that we call cash-based transfers. It gives people the ability — women, particularly because it empowers women, the ability to buy on the local market rather than us giving food to them. We give them a cash-based transfer so that they can buy on the local market. That makes it — that helps everyone. It helps the entire community. So, that’s something that’s been very successful that WFP actually started. And now, it’s become kind of a worldwide tool.

ISAACSON: Ukraine used to be referred to as the breadbasket of — a breadbasket of the world. Tell me what the war in Ukraine has done to exacerbate this issue.

MCCAIN: Yes. Your description is exactly correct. It’s been — you know, with the inability, in some cases, and a much smaller ability to be able to get grain out, it is really — it’s really hampered how we feed, and I’ll use Madagascar as a good, good example and other regions of Africa, where we can bring grain out by ship and be able to then, as, you know, replenish it and do what we do with what WFP does with it. We’ve not been able to do that in an adequate manner. And we’ve gotten some grain out, as you know, but we haven’t gotten enough out, not to the — to where we were before. So, the Ukraine situation has been damaging in so many different ways, but from a food standpoint, it’s been devastating. And so, we’ve had to — other suppliers of things, of grains that we need, we’ve had to make sure that we can source it. It’s much more expensive. That costs us money, which means, you know, it’s later getting to where it should go. And of course, the expense is unbelievable.

ISAACSON: The global community has said that it really wants to end hunger and malnutrition by 2030. What does that mean? And how could that be done?

MCCAIN: Well, I will work with anybody that can offer something like that. I really will. It means that we all need to work together, that we can no longer — this isn’t a problem that’s on somebody else’s doorstep. This a problem that’s on our own doorstep and we have to deal with hunger. And it does everybody good. When people are eating, they’re calm. They’re not looking for trouble. They’re not — they don’t become a — recruited by these guys that comes through, with these nefarious characters that come through. It helps all of us. And so, whenever I speak to groups or countries or heads of state, I say, it’s — listen, this — you need to be in this because this will affect you, whether it is now or not, it’ll affect you. And so, just reminding the world and reminding our world leaders of the importance of working together on this. And that sounds, I know, very lofty. How do you get the world to work together? We can’t seem to do anything together. But I think in the arena of food, we need to work together. We have to.

ISAACSON: This job at the World Food Programme, especially when we look at what’s happening in Ukraine, now we’re looking at what’s happening in Gaza, around the world, it’s got to be grueling. I mean, it’s really tough. You’re based in Rome. You’re traveling to places like Somalia and seeing it. What drives you to do this? What keeps you going?

MCCAIN: You know, I can honestly tell you, I’ve been — I consider myself a humanitarian and I have been most of my adult life. And what drives me is, I know that we can do better. I know that we can help. And so, what drives me are the people that I see. And I mentioned the girl that was pregnant with the two kids, that’s what drives me, is our ability as an organization and as a world to work together to feed people in desperate situations. And that’s really what drives me. What keeps me awake is not being able to feed them. Those — you talk about the stress of a job, that’s what keeps me awake and what, to me, is the most gruesome thing that I face, is not being able to feed people. And so, it’s two-fold. It helps me continue on and it also breaks my heart.

ISAACSON: Cindy McCain, thanks so much for joining us and thanks so much for what you do.

MCCAIN: Thank you. I appreciate it.