The Class of ‘24: Entered College During COVID-19, Graduating Among Protests

>>> NOW THE PROTEST MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES SWEEPING THROUGH CAMPUSES IS JUST WEEKS BEFORE GRADUATION.

THIS YEAR'S COLLEGE SENIORS ARE MOSTLY THE SAME GROUP WHOSE HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION WAS DISRUPTED BY THE COVID PANDEMIC.

"WALL STREET JOURNAL" HIGHER EDUCATION REPORTER DOUGLAS BELKIN TALKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES FACING THESE STUDENTS.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

DOUGLAS BELKIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE "THEY ENTERED COLLEGE ISOLATION AND LEAVE AMID PROTESTS, THE CLASS THAT MISSED OUT ON FUN."

TELL ME WHAT IT IS THAT CHARACTERIZES THESE STUDENTS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ANOTHER SORT OF RIPPLE EFFECT OF THE PANDEMIC THAT WE ARE ALL COLLECTIVELY WITNESSING.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

THEIR EXPERIENCE WAS JUST MORE ISOLATED THAN THEIR PREDECESSORS HAVE BEEN.

THEY'VE BEEN LESS SOCIAL.

THEY'VE BEEN IN THEIR DORM ROOMS MORE, IN THE GYM LESS, IN THE CAFETERIA LESS, IN THE QUAD LESS, IN CLASS IN PERSON LESS.

THEY'RE STUDYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS LESS.

THEY'RE NOT JOINING CLUBS TO THE SAME DEGREES.

THEY'RE JUST NOT AS ENGAGED WITH ONE ANOTHER AS STUDENTS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES WERE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

>> TELL ME, WHO ARE THESE STUDENTS DEMOGRAPHICALLY?

WHAT HAVE THEY EXPERIENCED OVER THESE PAST FOUR YEARS?

>> SO THE KIDS WHO ARE GRADUATING NOW, IF THEY WENT THROUGH IN FOUR YEARS, WERE SENIORS WHEN THE PANDEMIC LANDED.

AND A LOT OF THEM DID NOT HAVE GRADUATION CEREMONIES AT THEIR HIGH SCHOOL.

THEY SPENT THEIR SUMMER ISOLATED.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE FRESHMEN ORIENTATION IN PERSON, AND THEY BEGAN COLLEGE, A LOT OF THEM EITHER ONLINE OR IN THEIR DORM ROOMS ISOLATED FROM ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE OF FEAR OF COVID.

THEY WERE TOLD WHEN THEY WALKED AROUND CAMPUS TO STAY SIX FEET APART FROM ONE ANOTHER AND TO CONSTANTLY WEAR MASKS.

SO THESE KIDS ARE REALLY ENDURED THE BRUNT OF COVID WITH REGARD TO ISOLATION.

>> WE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WERE EFFECTS ON CAMPUSES OVER THAT FIRST YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS WHEN THESE STUDENTS WERE THERE.

BUT WHAT ARE THE KIND OF LONGER EFFECTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO WHAT YOU AND I THINK OF AS OLD MEN WHAT COLLEGE WAS LIKE WHEN WE WENT?

>> WELL, THESE KIDS, THERE IS A LOT OF INTERESTING DATA THAT IS SORT OF BEING SURFACED NOW LOOKING AT THEIR BEHAVIOR.

SO THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT TRACK -- THEY DON'T LIKE THAT WORD, BUT THEY TRACK STUDENTS USING THEIR CELL PHONE TO GET A SENSE OF HOW THE CAMPUSES ARE USED.

AND THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND IF YOU COMPARE THE MOVEMENTS THE STUDENTS HAD ON CAMPUS PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC TO TODAY, THEY JUST DON'T MOVE AS MUCH, AND THEY DON'T GO TO THE SAME PLACES.

THERAPEUTIC NOT AROUND EACH OTHER AS MUCH.

SO THAT'S I THINK THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ISSUE.

THE OTHER ONE IS MAYBE WE'LL GET TO THIS LATER, BUT THE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND THE SURVEYS THAT ARE DESIGNATING, TRYING TO ASCERTAIN HOW THEY FEEL AND LEVELS OF ANXIETY IS SIGNIFICANTLY RAISED.

THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR A WHILE.

BUT IT DID AMPLIFY IN SOME CASES OVER THE PANDEMIC.

>> TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH STATUS.

WHERE ARE WE GETTING THE INFORMATION?

WHICH STUDENTS COHORTS, IF ANY ARE AFFECTED MOST OR LEAST?

>> YES, SO MENTAL HEALTH ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES IS TRACKED VERY CLOSELY.

IT MATTERS A LOT FOR SOME PRACTICAL REASONS AND LESS PRACTICAL REASONS.

THE ONE THING, IF STUDENTS ARE DEPRESSED, IF THEY'RE NOT ENGAGED IN COLLEGE, THEY'RE JUST LESS LIKELY TO GRADUATE.

ENGAGEMENT MATTERS A LOT.

MENTAL HEALTH MATTERS A LOT.

IF KIDS ARE DEPRESSED, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO CLASS AND FINISH.

THIS IMPACTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE UNIVERSITIES.

SO THAT'S IN THEIR INTERESTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE TAKING CARE OF THE KIDS WHO ARE THERE.

AND AROUND 2012, WE SAW DECLINING MENTAL HEALTH AND RAISING ANXIETY, AND IN DEPRESSION AROUND THE TIMES THAT THE CELL PHONES, THE POCKET CELL PHONES BECAME UBIQUITOUS.

THAT TREND CONTINUED INTO THE PANDEMIC, BUT THE RELIANCE ON TECHNOLOGY DURING THE PANDEMIC SEEMS TO HAVE REALLY STUCK.

SO THE KIDS ARE MORE INCLINED TO WANT TO BE ON THEIR PHONES, ON THEIR COMPUTER SCREENS NOW THAN THEY WERE BEFORE.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HAVE AN OPTION OF TAKING A CLASS ONLINE IN YOUR DORM ROOM OR GO TO THE CLASS.

A LOT OF KIDS ARE OPTING TO JUST SIT IN THEIR DORM ROOM AND TAKE A CLASS.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS THEY'RE MORE ISOLATED AND THEY'RE AVOIDING THE ANXIETY THAT COMES FROM SOCIAL INTERACTIONS THAT A LOT OF THEM FEAR CIRCUMSTANCES THAT MEASURED IN SOME WAY ON AN ANNUAL BASIS?

ARE THERE UNIVERSITIES THAT KIND OF TAKE SURVEYS AS FRESHMEN COME IN ABOUT WHAT THEIR FEELINGS WERE BEFORE THEY GOT TO COLLEGE OR THEIR ANNUAL SURVEYS THAT MEASURE SPECIFIC KINDS OF, YOU KNOW, OUTLOOKS THAT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE ON LIFE?

>> YEAH.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF SURVEYS, A LOT OF INSTRUMENTS NATIONAL THAT TRY TO MEASURE THIS STUFF.

THERE IS ONE CALLED THE HEALTHY MIND SURVEY OUT OF MICHIGAN.

THERE IS A NUMBER OF UNIVERSITIES CONNECTED TO IT.

BUT MICHIGAN IS ONE.

AND WHAT THAT SURVEY FOUND IS ANXIETY IS UP.

SOCIAL ANXIETY IS UP.

KIDS WHO BELIEVE THEY'VE BEEN TRAUMATIZED DOUBLED FROM 5% TO 10% OVER THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

THE LEVEL OF KIDS WHO HAVE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE IS UP A LITTLE BIT.

THE NET LEVEL OF KIDS WITH SUICIDAL IDEATION IS ONE IN SEVEN OF KIDS WHO THOUGHT ABOUT SUICIDE THE PAST YEAR.

SO THE NUMBERS ARE SOBER.

>> THOSE ARE INTENSE NUMBERS.

WHAT ARE UNIVERSITIES DOING ABOUT THIS, IF THEY KNOW THAT THE FRESHMAN COMING INTO THEIR COLLEGE ARE ALREADY MORE ANXIOUS AND THEY'RE TELLING THE UNIVERSITIES THAT THEIR LEVELS OF SELF-HARM AND SUICIDAL IDEATION ARE UP.

WHAT CAN THE UNIVERSITY DO?

WHAT IS A UNIVERSITY DOING?

>> SO THEY'RE REALLY ATTACKING THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, MOST PROFESSORS NOW HAVE HAD MENTAL HEALTH FIRST AID TRAINING SO THAT THEY CAN RECOGNIZE IF STUDENTS ARE DEPRESSED, IF THEY ARE FEARFUL FOR THEM.

THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE RED FOLDER THAT PROFESSORS PASS AROUND THAT SORT OF KEEPS TABS ON STUDENTS AND THE ONES THEY BELIEVE ARE STRUGGLING, YOU KNOW.

IT GIVES THEM OPTIONS ABOUT HOW TO TALK TO THEM, TO TREAT THEM.

SO PROFESSORS ARE SORT OF THE FIRST LINE.

THAT WASN'T HAPPENING A FEW YEARS AGO.

THAT'S ONE GOOD THING.

THERE ARE CARE TEAMS WHO TRY TO IDENTIFY STUDENTS WHO ARE STRUGGLING.

WE SPOKE TO FOLKS AT TULANE THAT HAVE FAILURE TALES.

KIDS ARE ANXIOUS ABOUT FAILING.

SO THEY GO INTO COMMUNITY, AND THEY TELL STORIES ABOUT THINGS THAT THEY BLEW.

AND THE IDEA IS TO SORT OF TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF EACH OTHER SO THEY COME TO THE SENSE THAT IT'S OKAY TO SCREW THINGS UP.

THAT'S PART OF GROWING UP, PART OF LIFE.

THEY'RE ENCOURAGING KIDS TO JOIN DIFFERENT GROUPS.

WHAT'S FASCINATING ABOUT IT IS THERE'S I THINK A SENSE THAT THE RETURN TO NORMAL IS BEYOND THE CAJOLING OF THE ADMINISTRATORS AND THE PROFESSORS.

THE KIDS SORT OF HAVE TO FIND THEIR OWN FOOTING.

AND NO ONE IS REALLY SURE WHERE THAT NEW LEVEL SET WILL BE.

>> YOU MANAGED TO FIND A RESIDENT ASSISTANT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PUGET SOUND, SOMETHING THAT I WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO, AND WHAT WAS STUNNING ABOUT THIS ANECDOTE IS THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO LURE YOUNG PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR DORM ROOMS.

YOU KNOW, WHEN COLLEGE STARTED FOR ME, IT WAS THE ABSOLUTE ANTITHESIS OF THAT.

IT WAS THE FIRST TIME FOR MOST STUDENTS LIVING AWAY FROM HOME.

THE DOORS KEPT SWINGING OPEN AND CLOSED.

YOU WOULD BE GOING IN AND OUT OF EVERYBODY ELSE'S ROOMS.

WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THAT KIND OF SOCIAL INTERACTION AND MINGLING THAT FOR SO MANY GENERATIONS BEFORE, COLLEGE WAS SO CRUCIAL FOR?

>> SO THERE IS A CYCLE THAT'S PICKING UP SPEED.

AND THAT'S SORT OF THE CENTER OF IT.

SO IF YOU SPENT YOUR SENIOR YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL, OR SENIOR YEAR OF HIGH SCHOOL AND FRESHMAN YEAR OF COLLEGE AND MAYBE EVEN PART OF YOUR SOPHOMORE OF COLLEGE IN YOUR DORM ROOM TAKING CLASSES ONLINE AND BEING TOLD TO ISOLATE, THEN THE SKILLS THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DEVELOPED AND THAT YOU DEVELOPED AS A YOUNG MAN TO INTERACT WITH YOUR PEERS ARE A LITTLE BIT RETARDED.

THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY TAKE ROOT.

AND SO WHEN IT'S TIME TO CONNECT WITH OTHER PEOPLE, THERE IS AN ANXIETY ATTACHED TO THAT NOW.

SO ONE WAY TO AVOID THAT ANXIETY IS TO JUST NOT DEAL WITH IT, SIT IN YOUR ROOM, TAKE A CLASS ONLINE WHERE YOU'RE COMFORTABLE, WHERE YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR SPACE.

YOU CAN SIT IN YOUR SWEAT PANTS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING CALLED ON BY A PROFESSOR.

IF YOU DO GO TO CLASS, GENERALLY SPEAKING, KIDS AREN'T AS PREPARED.

AND THEY'RE LESS LIKELY TO RAISE THEIR HAND IN DEBATE.

THEY'RE UNNERVED ABOUT BEING PART OF A DISCUSSION AND BEING CALLED OUT.

THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES I THINK OF SAYING THE WRONG THING.

THIS HAS BEEN AROUND PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC.

BUT THESE ARE ALL ISSUES THAT ARE SORT OF AGGREGATING AND FORCING SOME KIDS TO RETREAT.

>> DOES THAT CLIMATE POST PANDEMIC CONTRIBUTE TO THE SITUATION ON CERTAIN COLLEGE CAMPUSES TODAY WHERE RIGHT NOW THERE ARE PROTESTS THAT ARE GOING ON, SOME OF THE COLLEGES HAVE DECIDED TO POSTPONE OR CANCEL THEIR GRADUATIONS.

BUT THE ACRIMONY BETWEEN STUDENTS AND WHAT I SEE IS A LOT OF STUDENTS DISENGAGING FROM IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, IN MY OPINION SAY WELL, YOU'RE GOING LEARN FROM SOMEBODY ELSE IF YOU'RE ABLE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT.

IT.

BUT ACCORDING TO YOUR ARTICLE, MAYBE SOME KIDS ARE NOT.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING WITH THOSE PROTESTS.

IT'S BEEN FASCINATING TO INTERVIEW KIDS WHY THEY'RE A PART OF THEM AND ASK WHY THEY'RE THERE AND WHAT THEY KNOW.

I THINK YOU PUT YOUR FING OTHER ABOUT A REAL ISSUE.

PEOPLE AREN'T TALKING TO EACH OTHER.

I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS AN ISSUE WHEN YOU HAVE AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE YOU CARE ABOUT.

THERE IS NOT A CONVERSATION HAPPENING.

I THINK THERE IS ALSO AN ATTRACTION FOR SOME STUDENTS TO JOIN THESE PROTESTS BECAUSE THEY CAN STAND SIDE BY SIDE AND SHOULDER TO SHOULDER AND GET A SENSE OF COMMUNITY THAT THEY REALLY HAVEN'T HAD SINCE THEY'VE BEEN IN COLLEGE.

AND THAT FEELS GOOD.

IT FEELS GOOD TO CONNECT WITH ONE ANOTHER, TO BE KIND OF -- IT'S ALMOST EVERYBODY IS SAYING THE SAME THING, BELIEVING THE SAME THING.

SO IT'S ALMOST A LOW STAKES SITUATION IF YOU FOLLOW THE SCRIPT.

NOT TO DEMEAN WHAT THESE KIDS ARE DOING OR BELIEVING IN.

BUT THERE IS A SENSE I THINK OF COMMUNITY THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

ON THE FLIP SIDE, IT'S A REALLY POLARIZING ISSUE.

YOU'VE GOT STUDENTS THAT HAVEN'T MADE THE CONNECTIONS ON CAMPUS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE OVER TIME, AND THEY'RE ANGERING ONE ANOTHER, AND THEY'RE LOSING FRIENDS BECAUSE THEY POSTED A MEME OR MESSAGE THAT THE OTHER SIDE DOESN'T AGREE WITH.

WE SPOKE TO A NUMBER OF KIDS WHO SAY THEY'RE JUST ALIENATED FROM FRIENDS.

I THINK THIS IS PARTICULARLY SHARP AMONG A LOT OF THE JEWISH STUDENTS ON CAMPUS.

>> ARE THERE THINGS THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AS WE WATCH THIS WAVE OF COLLEGE PROTESTS PLAY OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF WHAT THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS COULD BE ON STUDENTS, OR PERHAPS HOW COLLEGES ARE RESPONDING TO THESE PROTESTS?

>> THERE IS THIS TENSION BETWEEN THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH AND THE TITLE 6 RULE THAT SAYS YOU'RE ENTITLED TO AN EDUCATION FREE OF HARASSMENT.

THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE TO TRY TO KEEP STUDENTS SAFE.

BUT HOW THEY DO THAT IS REALLY NOT BEEN ADJUDICATED.

SO WE'RE IN THIS LEGAL NO-MAN'S LAND WHEN THE UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT TRIES SO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HANDLE PROTESTS.

THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO CHANGE.

SOME OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS CASES THAT THEY'RE HEARING NOW ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE CHALLENGED WHEN THEY COME OUT.

THEY'LL GO COURT AND SOME JUDGE SOMEWHERE IS GOING TO SAY THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO WHEN A PROTEST HAPPENS.

THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE GUIDANCE.

SO I THINK THAT GOING FORWARD, THERE WILL BE LESS LATITUDE FOR UNIVERSITIES TO DETERMINE HOW TO RESPOND.

>> YOU HAD A QUOTE IN THERE, "THE PANDEMIC BRUISED THE PSYCHE OF A GENERATION.

THE POLITICS SEARED IT."

EXPLAIN HOW TODAY'S POLITICAL CLIMATE IS SHAPING THIS GENERATION.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SPEAK TO A KID WHO IS 21 YEARS OLD NOW, THEY'LL RECITE A LITANY OF THE THINGS THEY WERE BORN INTO, RIGHT.

SO THEY CAME ALONG NOT LONG AFTER 9/11.

THEY DEALT WITH THE GREAT RECESSION.

AND THEY WERE AROUND FOR THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

THAT'S BEEN PART OF THEIR NORM, THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY POLARIZED THE COUNTRY AND OBVIOUSLY WE'RE HEADING IN THAT DIRECTION BEFORE.

THE PANDEMIC WAS MASSIVE.

SO THEY CAME IN TO COLLEGE FEELING I THINK ON THEIR BACK FOOT.

THIS IS BY AND LARGE THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT LESS RISK-TAKING THAN PRIOR GENERATIONS HAVE BEEN BECAUSE THEY'VE SEEN THE DOWNSIDE OF THINGS THAT CAN GO WRONG.

THEY'VE SEEN CHAOS.

EVERY GENERATION HAS THEIR OWN CROSS TO BEAR.

YOU KNOW, YOU SPEAK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN COLLEGE DURING VIETNAM, AND THEY SORT OF SCOFF AT THE NOTION THAT THESE KIDS HAD IT ROUGH.

BUT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE KIDS ON CAMPUS, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'VE HAD A PRETTY ROUGH FIRST COUPLE OF DECADES.

>> YOU ALSO HAVE WRITTEN BEYOND THE HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEM KIND OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REST OF SOCIETY AS THESE WAVES OF CLASSES COME INTO THE WORKFORCE.

WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT EMPLOYERS SEE FROM THE GENERATIONS I GUESS REALLY MID PANDEMIC ONWARD THAT HAVE COME INTO THE WORKFORCE?

THESE ARE NOT JUST TRENDS FROM THE PANDEMIC, BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN ACCELERATED AS YOU POINT OUT.

>> THE EMPLOYERS ARE DEING A DECLINE IN THE CAPACITY, IN THE COMPETENCY OF KIDS COMING OUT OF COLLEGE.

AND WE'RE JUST BEGINNING TO SEE THIS NOW.

THERE IS A LOT OF DATA COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOLS AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS ABOUT LEARNING LOSS THAT HAPPENED.

BUT WHEN IN COLLEGE, WHAT WE'RE SEEING ARE KIDS WHO ARE GRADUATING AND PASSING LICENSING EXAMS LIKE NURSING OR ENGINEERING AT LOWER RATES.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME CAPACITY.

ONCE YOU DO PASS, THERE ARE OFTEN LOWER SCORES.

THE SOCIAL ADROITNESS OF STUDENTS HAS DECLINED.

YOU SEE A LOT OF KIDS WHO DON'T MAKE EYE CONTACT WHEN THEY'RE IN A RETAIL SPOT, WORKING A JOB LIKE THAT.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN THAT THIS GENERATION THAT KNOWS LESS AND IS LESS INCLINED TO ASK TO LEARN.

AND OF COURSE THE WHOLE ISSUE WITH SORT OF BEING STUCK ON THEIR PHONE AND NOT COMMUNICATING AND CONNECTING WITH PEOPLE HAS BEEN A CONCERN FOR A DECADE.

>> IS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT YOU HAVE FROM THE CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE HAD THAT A COLLEGE EXPERIENCE WILL RETURN TO WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE GONE THROUGH?

NOT THAT EVERYTHING WE WENT THROUGH IS ALL ROSES, BUT THAT WE WOULD POSSIBLY SEE GREATER FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION AGAIN AND, YOU KNOW, AVOID SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THIS GENERATION OVER THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS HAVE DEALT WITH ON CAMPUSES?

>> THE COLLEGE MODEL IS CERTAINLY FRAYING.

AND THERE IS A DEMOGRAPHIC CLIFF.

THAT MEANS FEWER KIDS ARE GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL.

SO THERE ARE FEWER TO GO TO COLLEGE.

SO THIS WAVE OF SCHOOLS THAT ARE CONSOLIDATING AND CLOSING THAT IS BEGINNING TO SHAPE UP.

THE SCHOOLS THAT SURVIVE, I DON'T SEE WHY THEY WOULDN'T RESPOND AND BECOME A SORT OF COMMUNITY WHERE KIDS WILL REENGAGE.

HUMAN BEINGS ARE AWFULLY STRONG AND FIGURE OUT A WAY FORWARD.

THE KIDS WHO WERE IN SCHOOL DURING THE PANDEMIC, SOME WILL RECOVER.

SOME WON'T.

WE LOOKED AT STUDIES ABOUT LIFETIME LEARNING LOSS FOR KIDS WHO WERE IN SCHOOL DURING THINGS LIKE NATURAL DISASTER.

IN ARGENTINA, FOR INSTANCE, THERE WAS A MASSIVE TEACHER STRIKES FOR YEARS THAT CAN KICKED KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL.

IN PAKISTAN, THERE WERE TREMENDOUS EARTHQUAKES THAT DESTROYED WHOLE VILLAGES.

AND YOU COMPARE THE CHILDREN WHO WERE AROUND THOSE NATURAL DISASTERS AND DIDN'T GO TO SCHOOL FOR A YEAR OR TWO, THEY DIDN'T CATCH UP.

WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY GOT DISCOURAGED.

THEY DIDN'T TAKE THE NEXT STEP IN SCHOOL.

THEIR LIFETIME EARNINGS DECLINED.

THERE IS ONE PROFESSOR, RESEARCHER AT STANFORD WHO SUGGESTS LIFETIME LEARNING LOSS IS PROBABLY AROUND $70,000.

SO HOW THAT PLAYS OUT, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT IT, BUT IT'S >> DOUGLAS BELKIN, THE HIGHER EDUCATION REPORTER FOR "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL," THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.