May 20, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> TODAY, CHRISTIANE, WE'VE APPLIED FOR WARRANTS TO THE PRETRIAL CHAMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT IN RELATION TO THREE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HAMAS MEMBERS.

WE'LL APPLY FOR WARRANTS FOR PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND ALSO MINISTER OF DEFENSE GA LANT.

>> THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT SEEKS ARREST WARRANTS FOR HAMAS LEADERS, FOR CRIMES THEY COMMITTED ON OCTOBER 7th.

AS WELL AS ISRAELI LEADERS FOR THEIR ACTS IN THE WAR ON GAZA THAT FOLLOWED.

A WORLD EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH ICC PROSECUTOR KARIM KHAN.

WE'LL GET INTERNATIONAL REACTION IN A SPECIAL PROGRAM FROM THE HAGUE.

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>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN THE HAGUE, WHERE TODAY, THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT'S PROSECUTOR KARIM KHAN TELLS ME THAT HE'S SEEKING ARREST WARRANTS FOR THREE HAMAS LEADERS, YAHYA SINWAR, ISMAIL HANIYEH AND MOHAMMED DIAN DIAN ISMAIL AL MASRI.

THE COURT IS ALSO SEEKING ARREST WARRANTS FOR ISRAELI LEAD ERLS PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU AND DEFENSE MINISTER YOAV GALLANT, CITING THE WAR IN GAZA THAT'S SEEN MORE THAN 35,000 PEOPLE KILLED, AND CITING THE USE OF STARVATION AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

THE PROSECUTOR TELLS ME, THIS IS NO WITCH HUNT, NOR IS IT POLITICAL.

IT IS CARRYING OUT THE ICC MANDATE TO APPLY JUSTICE EQUALLY, WITHOUT FEAR NOR FAVOR.

ISRAELIS FROM ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM HAVE DENOUNCED THIS DECISION.

NETANYAHU CALLING IT AN OUTRAGE.

THAT WON'T DETER ISRAEL FROM CONTINUING ITS WAR.

MEANTIME, HAMAS ALSO REJECTED THE CHARGES AGAINST ITS LEADERSHIP.

WE WILL GET MORE ON THIS GLOBAL AND U.S.

REACTION LATER IN THE PROGRAM.

BUT FIRST, MY EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH THE ICC PROSECUTOR, KARIM KHAN, WHERE HE LAID OUT WHY HE'S SEEKING THESE ARREST WASH WARRANTS AFTER 7 1/2 MONTHS OF WAR, AND HOW HIS OFFICE CAME TO THIS DECISION NOW.

PROSECUTOR KARIM KHAN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> AND OF COURSE, WE'RE HERE AT THE ICC.

YOU ARE, TODAY, ANNOUNCING THAT YOU ARE APPLYING FOR ARREST WARRANTS FOR TOP MILITARY AND POLITICAL LEADERSHIP IN THE ISRAEL-GAZA WAR, SINCE THE OCTOBER 7th EVENTS.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR AND WHO YOU ARE CHARGING.

>> TODAY, CHRISTIANE, WE'VE APPLIED FOR WARRANTS TO THE PRETRIAL CHAMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT IN RELATION TO THREE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HAMAS MEMBERS, SINWAR, WHO IS IN CHARGE ON THE GROUND.

DAITH, WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE BRIGADE, AND HANIYEH, WHO IS ONE OF THEIR POLITICAL BUREAU BASED IN DOHA.

>> FOR EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND, YAHYA SINWAR IS THE HEAD OF WHAT THEY CALL THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE MOVEMENT, HAMAS, THE MILITARY OPERATION, OR EVEN WIDER.

AL MASRI, OTHERWISE KNOWN AT DA T H, AND HANIYEH.

WHAT ARE THE CHARGES?

>> EXTERMINATION, RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT IN DETENTION.

SO, THESE ARE THE KEY CRIMES THAT ARE ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN COMMITTED BY THESE THREE INDIVIDUALS.

THE WORLD WAS SHOCKED ON THE SEVENTH OF OCTOBER WHEN PEOPLE WERE RIPPED FROM THEIR BEDROOMS, FROM THEIR HOMES, FROM THE DIFFERENT KIBBUTZ IN ISRAEL.

AND PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED ENORMOUSLY, AND WE HAVE A VARIETY OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE APPLICATIONS WE'VE SUBMITTED TO THE JUDGES.

>> AND JUST TELL US WHAT THE EVIDENCE IS.

OBVIOUSLY, THE WORLD HAS SEEN THE REAL-TIME IMAGES, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS PUT OUT VIDEOS, WHICH IT SHARED TO TO U.N. AND OTHERS, JOURNALISTS, ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

THERE ARE BODY CAMS ON MANY OF THE HAMAS FIGHTERS, WHOEVER WAS THERE AT THE TIME.

IS THAT THE EVIDENCE, OR, DO YOU HAVE MORE?

>> WE HAVE MORE.

WE HAVE AUTHENTICATED VIDEOS AND PHOTOGRAPHS, WE HAVE CCTV, CAMERA PICTURES.

WE HAVE EYEWITNESS EVIDENCE, WE HAVE EVIDENCE OF SUVISURVIVORS.

I MEAN, IT'S REMARKABLE THAT THE VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS FROM ISRAEL THAT HAVE ENGAGED WITH MY OFFICE.

THEY'VE COME HERE, I'VE ALWAYS MET THEM IN THE DIFFERENT KIBBUTZ, AND THEY WANT JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

SO, A WHOLE VARIETY OF INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AUTHENTICATED, THAT WE THINK IS RELATIVE AND PROBATIVE, AND THAT IS SUFFICIENT, WE SAY, TO SUSTAIN THE CRIMES THAT WE PUT FORWARD TO THE JUDGES.

>> YOU A HAVE ISSUED WARRANTS AGAINST IF TOP POLITICAL AND MILITARY LEADERSHIP OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

>> WE'VE APPLIED FOR WARRANTS, OF COURSE, THE JUDGES MUST DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT TO ISSUE THEM, BUT WE'VE APPLIED TODAY, WE'LL APPLY FOR WARRANTS FOR PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND ALSO MINISTER OF DEFENSE GALLANT FOR CRIMES OF CAUSING EXTERMINATION, CAUSING STARVATION AS A METHOD OF WAR, INCLUDING THE DENIAL OF HUMANITARIAN RELIEF SUPPLIES, DELIBERATELY TARGETING CIVILIANS IN CONFLICT, AND THE SAD THING, REALLY, IN RELATION TO BOTH CATEGORIES, I'VE BEEN SAYING REPEATEDLY IN CAIRO, IN OCTOBER LAST YEAR, AT THE RAFAH CROSSING, ON ISRAELI TELEVISION, IN RAMALLAH, EVERYWHERE I CAN, TO BE PARTIES TO THE CONFLICT.

COMPLY NOW, CONTINUE DOM PLAIN COMPLAIN LATER.

HOSTAGES HAVE BEEN RELEASED.

BUT THAT CRIME CONTINUES FOR SO MANY INNOCENT ISRAELIS THAT ARE IN CUSTODY, HELD HOSTAGE BY HAMAS AND FAMILIES THAT ARE AWAITING THEIR RETURN.

AND OF COURSE, WE SEE PICTURES OF STARVING CHILDREN, EMACIATED CHILDREN.

WE HAVE A VARIETY OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT, EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN FORENSICALLY ANALYZED TO SUSTAIN THE CHARGE OF STARVATION BEING USED BY NETANYAHU AND GALLANT AS A METHOD OF WAR.

AND IT'S AWFUL THAT IN 2024 WE'VE HAD TO SUBMIT THESE APPLICATIONS TO THE JUDGES OF THE ICC FOR WARRANTS.

>> I'M GOING TO GET INTO STARVATION AS A WEAPON OF WAR IN A MOMENT, BUT FIRST, I WANT TO ASK YOU, THE WORD JEN KNOW SIDE HAS BEEN USED BY BOTH SIDES, AND MANY BELIEVE THAT GENOCIDE IS BEING COMMITTED, BUT YOU DO NOT.

YOU'RE NOT USING THAT WORD.

>> WELL, THIS IS AN ACTIVE INVESTIGATION, AND WE HAVE CRIMINAL CHARGES THAT WE CAN USE.

GENOCIDE, WAR CRIMES, AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

IN RELATION TO THIS CURRENT STAGE OF INVESTIGATIONS, THE CHARGES THAT WE'VE PUT FORWARD TO THE JUDGES DO NOT INCLUDE GENOCIDE.

BUT WE ARE CONTINUING TO INVESTIGATE, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX SITUATION.

WE'VE NOT BEEN ALLOWED ACCESS INTO GAZA BY THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES.

WE ALSO ARE CONTINUING OUR INVESTIGATIONS IN RELATION TO THE HAMAS ATTACKS, AND IF AND WHEN THE EVIDENCE POINTS US IN A PARTICULAR DIRECTION, WE WILL NOT HESITATE TO ACT.

SO, IT'S STILL AN ACTIVE INVESTIGATION, BUT YES, TODAY WE HAVEN'T.

>> WHAT IS EXTERMINATION?

>> IT'S MASS KILLING.

>> DIFFERENT THAN GENOCIDE?

>> YES.

GENOCIDE IS DEFINED BY SPECIFIC INTENT.

NOT ONLY KILLING, BUT AN INTENTION TO DESTROY THE GROUP IN WHOLE OR IN PART, SPECIFIC INTENT TO DESTROY THE GROUP IN WHOLE OR IN PART, SO, WE'RE NOT -- WE HAVE NOT INCLUDED IN OUR APPLICATION TODAY A REQUEST FOR WARRANTS FOR THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE.

>> SO, EXTERMINATION, WAR CRIMES, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT STARVATION, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IT WAS ACCEPTED BY THE ICC AS A WAR CRIME WHEN YOU WERE CREATED IN 1998, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S EVER BEEN PROSECUTED BEFORE.

AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

>> NO, IT'S NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

I THINK UNFORTUNATELY, THIS SITUATION WILL BE A FIRST, AND IT'S VERY UNUSUAL.

WE SEE A POPULATION LARGE NUMBERS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN THAT HAVE ALREADY ENDURED MORE THAN 17 YEARS OF A VERY RIGID REGIME OF ALLOWING GOODS INTO GAZA.

I THINK EVEN IN 2022, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS SAID THAT 80% OF THE POPULATION, YOU KNOW, LIVED ON HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES.

AND THAT'S JUST BECOME EVEN MORE PERNICIOUS SINCE THE EIGHTH OF OCTOBER, WITH ALL THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE WORDS OF THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE U.N., OF THE HEAD OF THE OFFICE OF COORDINATION OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS MARTIN GRIFFITHS, W.H.O., UNICEF, I MEAN, IT SEEMS EVERYBODY IN THE INTERNATIONAL FERMMENT HAS SPOKEN WITH GRAVE CONCERN, EXTREME CONCERN, THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN FOOD, WATER, MEDICINES, GO TO THE MOST VULNERABLE, AND THEY HAVE THOSE RIGHTS, NOT BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT I'M SAYING, BUT BECAUSE IT'S REQUIRED IN THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS AND THE ROME STATUTE.

>> AS OF APRIL 17th, ACCORDING TO HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS, 28 CHILDREN UNDER 12 HAVE DIED, INCLUDING 12 BABIES, ABOUT A MONTH OLD, BECAUSE OF MALNUTRITION-RELATED CONDITIONS.

THE DEFENSE MINISTER, YOAV GALLANT, WHO TODAY YOU ARE ISSUING -- A REQUEST FOR AN ARREST WARRANT ON, SAID ON OCTOBER 9th, WE ARE IMPOSING A COMPLETE SIEGE.

THERE WILL BE NO ELECTRICITY, NO FOOD, NO WATER, NO FUEL, EVERYTHING IS CLOSED.

WE ARE FIGHTING HUMAN ANIMALS, AND WE WILL ACT ACCORDINGLY.

PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU ON OCTOBER 13th SAID, WE WILL EXACT A PRICE THAT WILL BE REMEMBERED BY THEM AND ISRAEL'S OTHER ENEMIES FOR DECADES TO COME.

ARE THOSE -- IS THAT THE BASIS ON WHICH YOU ESTABLISH INTENT OR IS THAT PART OF YOUR EVIDENCE?

>> MUCH MORE THAN THAT, BUT YES, SOME OF THE WORDS UTTERED BY THE TWO INDIVIDUALS, MINISTER OF DEFENSE GALLANT AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, ARE, OF COURSE, PROBATIVE AND RELEVANT.

THE FACT THAT SO MANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, WORDS LIKE, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS AN INNOCENT CIVILIAN IN GAZA, THEY'RE ALL RESPONSIBILITY, THE WORDS BY MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COMMITTEE, I MEAN, THERE'S A WHOLE VARIETY OF WORDS THAT ARE SAID AND DONE BY THE GOVERNMENT THAT HAVE NOT BEEN DISOWNED THAT HAVE NOT BEEN DENIED, THAT HAVE NOT -- THE TWO INDIVIDUALS HAVE NOT DISASSOCIATED THEMSELVES FROM.

AND I THINK THAT'S RELEVANT.

AGAIN, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX OPERATION.

IT'S NOT JUST THE DENIAL OF AID.

IT'S THE FACT THAT AS AN OCCUPYING POWER, ISRAEL HAS AN AFFIRMATIVE OBLIGATION TO MAKE SURE FOOD AND THE OBJECTS INDISPENSABLE TO SURVIVAL GET TO CIVILIANS.

THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF THE NORTH OF GAZA, FOR EXAMPLE, IDF TANKS COULD GUARD AID CONVOYS GOING IN AND MAKING SURE IT GETS TO THE CAMPS.

THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.

BUT IN ADDITION, ONE HAS TO LOOK AT A WATER ASPECT.

WATER HAS BEEN CUT OFF.

ELECTRICITY HAS BEEN -- PLANTS HAVE BEEN EITHER DESTROYED OR TARGETED.

FUEL CAN'T GO IN.

DESALINATION PLANTS ARE COMPLETELY DYSFUNCTIONAL.

THERE'S NO PLANT IN THE NORTH OF GAZA AT ALL.

WATER PURIFICATION TABLETS, FILTRATION SYSTEMS, HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED AS DUAL USE OBJECTS, AS HAVE INCUE BAYER TOS, OXYGEN FOR HOSPITAL.

90% OF ALL THE GREENHOUSES IN THE NORTH OF GAZA DESTROYED.

40% OF THE LAND THAT WAS USED FOR AGRICULTURE HAS BEEN DESTROYED SINCE, YOU KNOW, THE CONFLICT STARTED.

70% OF THE FISHING VESSELS, I MEAN, EVERY AVENUE THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO HUMAN SURVIVAL HAS BEEN CONSTRAINED OR SUFFOCATED BECAUSE OF A POLICY, AND THE WORDS OF THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS, WHICH SAID WE'RE AT A BREAKING POINT.

THE WORDS OF UNICEF, THE WORDS OF UNRWA, SAYING WE HAVE A TRICKLE OF AID IN A SEA OF NEED.

ALL OF THESE, YOU KNOW, GIANTS OF THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM, THEIR WORDS, THEIR CONCERNS, HAVE BEEN PUT TO ONE SIDE AND, UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE FACE OF OTHER IMPERATIVES, AND WHAT SEEMS TO BE A BID OR SO FOR THE COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT OF THE PEOPLE OF GAZA.

>> WHAT IS THE INTERNATIONAL LAW ON THE RESTRICTIONS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

AND FOR INSTANCE, THE CHECKING OF AID CONVOYS?

THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS AT WORE WITH A TERROR ORGANIZATION, AND HAS WORKED IN COORDINATION WITH THE U.S., EGYPT, AND INTERNATIONAL AID AGENCIES TO GET AID IN.

NETANYAHU HIMSELF ON OCTOBER 29th, AFTER TWO WEEKS OF NOTHING GETTING IN, ANOTHER WEEK LATER, SAID, WE MUST PREVENT A HUMANITARIAN DISASTER.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THOSE WORDS, AND WHAT IS THE LAW ON STOPPING AND CHECKING AID CONVOYS?

>> SEE, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WORDS AND ANALYZE THEM AGAINST WHAT IS TAKING PLACE.

PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HAS BEEN ON THE RECORD TO SAY THAT THE ACCESS OF HUMANITARIAN AID GIVES ISRAEL IMPORTANT LEEWAY THAT IS BEING USED, TALKED ABOUT A DIPLOMATIC IRON DOME, AS PART OF ALLOWING AID IN AND NOT ALLOWING AID IN AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT NOT TO GIVE TO HAMAS.

THAT IS NOT CONTESTED.

ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT AND OBLIGATION TO GET HOSTAGES BACK.

BUT YOU MUST DO SO BY COMPLYING WITH THE LAW.

THE FACT THAT HAMAS FIGHTERS NEED WATER DOESN'T JUSTIFY DENYING WATER FROM ALL THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF GAZA THERE'S AN OBLIGATION, AS I SAID, IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING ELSE, AN AFFIRMATIVE OBLIGATION AS AN OCCUPYING POWER, THAT ISRAEL IS, TO MAKE SURE WATER, MEDICINE, INSULIN, GOES TO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED IT.

IF TANKS CAN GO IN, WHY CAN'T THOSE TANKS AND THOSE SOLDIERS GUARD AID CONVOYS?

SO, THERE'S A LOT OF DEFICIENCIES THAT GIVE RISE NOT NEGLIGENCE OR INDIFFERENCE, BUT SEEM TO BE PART OF A CRIMINAL COMMON PLAN TO DENY THESE OBJECTS INDISPENSABLE TO THE SURVIVAL OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION, AND HOW MANY DOCTORS HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AMPUTATING THE LIMBS OF LITTLE BABIES OR CHILDREN, OR HOW MANY PEOPLE NEED TO DIE WITHOUT INSULIN, OR HOW MANY PEOPLE WITH 50% BURNS CAN BE LEFT BY THE DOCTORS IN THE DIFFERENT HOSPITALS, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE CREAMS FOR BURNS AND THEY CAN'T SAVE THEM WITHOUT THAT, FOR US TO REALIZE THAT THE LAW IS BEING BREACHED?

NOW, THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE ANALYZED, AND WE'VE PREVENTED IT FOR JUDGES WHO WILL MAKE THE FINAL DECISIONS IF WARRANTS SHOULD BE ISSUED OR NOT.

>> AND AGAIN, YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE REQUESTED THESE WARRANTS BASED ON A HIGHER LEVEL OF EVIDENCE THAN IS NORMALLY REQUIRED.

NOT JUST THAT IT IS A REASONABLE BELIEF THAT IT COULD LEAD TO ACTUAL WARRANTS AND A CHARGE, BUT YOU BELIEVE YOUR EVIDENCE HAS WHAT?

>> WELL, I -- WHEN I CAME IN AS PROSECUTOR, THE STANDARD FOR A WARRANT, REASONABLE GRANT TO BELIEVE, THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGES HAVE TO DETERMINE.

I, ACROSS ALL OUR SITUATIONS, WHEN I BECAME PROSECUTOR, I REQUIRED THE LEADERS IN THE OFFICE, THE HEADS OF THE TEAMS, TO CERTIFY THAT THERE'S A REALISTIC PROSPECT OF CONVICTION.

IT'S NOT ENOUGH IN THESE KINDS OF CASES TO HAVE ENOUGH TO ISSUE A WARRANT.

WE MUST BE ABLE TO BRING IT HOME.

>> ON BOTH SIDES.

>> ON BOTH SIDES.

WE ARE UNANIMOUS THAT WE HAVE A PROSPECT OF CONVICTION, REGARDING THE HAMAS LEADERS, AND THE TWO THAT ARE BEING SOUGHT IN RELATION TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND FOREIGN MINISTER GALLANT.

AND, OF COURSE, THE JUDGES WILL DECIDE IF WE'VE GOT IT RIGHT, AND OUR ANALYSIS IS SPOT-ON OR NOT.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO THE ACTUAL HOW YOU AFFECT THESE WARRANTS, GIVEN THE PRACTICALITIES OF THE SITUATION IN A MOMENT, BUT FIRST, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE SO-CALLED POLITICAL NATURE THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL CLAIM.

PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HAS ALREADY SAID, ICC CHARGES WOULD SCALE, A STAIN ON THE IDEA OF JUSTICE, ISRAEL'S COMMITMENT TO INTERNATIONAL LAW IS UNWAVERING, AND NETANYAHU HAS ALSO SAID IT WOULD BE AN ANTI-SEMITIC HATE CRIME.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM HAMAS ABOUT HOW THEY WOULD REACT.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A HUGE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ON YOU FROM ALL SIDES TO DO AND NOT TO DO.

>> WELL, THIS COURT, CHRISTIANE, IS THE CHILD OF NUREMBERG.

IT WAS DEVELOPED BECAUSE OF THOSE HORRIFIC PICTURES OF THE GAS CHAMBERS, THE LIST GOES ON.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE.

AND THE WAY I VERY SIMPLY TRY TO DO THINGS IS, LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE, LOOK AT THE CONDUCT, LOOK AT THE VICTIMS, AND AIR BRUSH OUT THE NATIONALITY.

AND IF A CRIME IS COMMITTED, WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

NO PEOPLE, NATIONALITY, COLOR OF THEIR SKIN, HAVE A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD, HAVE A FREE PASS TO SAY, WELL, THE LAW DOESN'T APPLY TO US.

THIS IS A MOMENT WHEN WE SEE IN THE SHADOW OF UKRAINE AN INCREASING CACOPHONY OF NOISE, AND DOUBLE STANDARDS AND SELECTIVITY.

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GO WITH A TIDE OF EMOTION, BUT TAKE OUR TIME, MOVE AS EFFECTIVELY AS WE CAN.

EVERY HUMAN LIFE, EVERY BABY THAT IS KILLED, WHETHER IT'S A BABY THAT'S CRUELLY ABDUCTED BY HAMAS AND KILLED, OR A BABY THAT'S BEEN BOMBED OR KILLED OR HAS DIED IN INCUBATORS BECAUSE OF NO ELECTRICITY OR WATER OR FOOD IN GAZA, FOR THEM, FOR THEIR FAMILIES, AND FOR HUMANITY, IT'S A TRAGEDY.

AND THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A COURT.

IT'S ABOUT THE EQUAL APPLICATION OF THE LAW.

NO PEOPLE ARE BETTER THAN ANOTHER.

AND NO PEOPLE ANYWHERE REPUBLIC ARE SAINTS.

SO, THIS IS WHY WE'VE MADE THE APPLICATIONS THAT THE JUDGES MUST DETERMINE.

>> I'M GOING TO READ YOU SOME HEAVY CRITICISM THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED FROM THE UNITED STATES, AS WE KNOW, THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A PARTY TO THE ICC, NOR IS ISRAEL.

U.S.

SENATORS AND U.S. CONGRESSPEOPLE, MOSTLY REPUBLICANS, WROTE YOU A LETTER, SIGNED BY SENATOR TOM COTTON, MITCH McCONNELL, TED CRUZ, MARCO RUBIO, AND OTHERS.

TARGET ISRAEL AND WE WILL TARGET YOU.

IF YOU MOVE FORWARD, WE WILL MOVE TO END ALL AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR THE ICC, SANCTION YOUR EMPLOYEES AND ASSOCIATES, AND BAR YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES FROM THE UNITED STATES.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

IS THAT A THREAT?

>> I THINK THAT'S THE PLAIN MEANING OF IT IN ENGLISH.

BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S HOT HEADS EVERYWHERE, AND THERE'S PEOPLE THAT ARE MATURE STATESMEN AND STATESWOMEN, AND LEADERS, THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE FIDELITY TO SOMETHING GREATER THAN THEMSELVES, WHETHER IT'S THEIR CONSTITUTIONS, BUT ULTIMATELY, IT'S THE RULE OF LAW.

THE GOOD NEWS IS, I THINK FOR THE LAST 2 1/2 YEARS, WE'VE HAD VERY POSITIVE ENGAGEMENT WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND THE UNITED STATES.

WE'RE WORKING ACROSS NUMEROUS SITUATIONS, AND I'VE SAID TO DISTINGUISHED MEMBERS ON THE HILL, AND TO THE ADMINISTRATION, THAT ROME STATUTE VALUES ARE QUINTESSENTIAL AMERICAN VALUES.

IT'S AGAINST BULLYING, IT'S THE RIGHTS AND THE DIGNIFY OF THE INDIVIDUAL, IT'S THE PROTECTION OF BABIES.

I MEAN, THESE ARE FUNDAMENTAL AMERICAN VALUES THAT SHOULD HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

THIS IS ON THE FAULT OF INTERNATIONAL POLITICS AND STRATEGIC INTERESTS, AND, OF COURSE, I'VE HAD SOME ELECTED LEADERS SPEAK TO ME AND, YOU KNOW, BE VERY BLUNT.

THIS COURT IS BUILT FOR AFRICA AND FOR THUGS LIKE PUTIN, WHAT ONE SENIOR LEADER TOLD ME.

WE DON'T VIEW IT LIKE THAT.

THIS COURT IS THE TRIUMPH OF LAW OVER POWER AND BRUTE FORCE, GRAB WHAT YOU CAN, TAKE WHAT YOU WANT, DO WHAT YOU WILL, AND WE'RE GOING TO SIMPLY BE -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE DISSUADED BY THREATS OR ANY OTHER ACTIVITIES, BECAUSE IN THE END, WE HAVE TO FULFILL OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS PROSECUTORS, AS THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE OFFICE, AS JUDGES, AS THE REGISTRY, TO SOMETHING BIGGER THAN OURSELVES, WHICH IS THE FIDELITY TO JUSTICE, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE SWAYED BY THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF THREATS, SOME OF WHICH ARE PUBLIC AND SOME MAYBE ARE NOT.

>> YOU MENTIONED WITHOUT NAMES THAT THERE ARE MANY WHO HAVE BEEN INDICTED WHO ARE NOT IN DEMOCRATIC STATES, WHO ESSENTIALLY DESPOTS.

ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY, THEY HAVE A JUDICIARY, THEY HAVE LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEY HAVE ELECTED LEADERS.

WHY DO YOU NEED TO DO THIS WHEN THEY HAVE A SYSTEM THAT COULD DO THIS?

>> I'D MUCH RATHER ISRAEL DOES IT.

I MEAN, ISRAEL, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT HAS VERY GOOD SUPREME COURT, IT HAS A VERY QUALIFIED, BRILLIANT LAWYERS.

BUT EVEN IF YOU READ RECENTLY PUBLIC INFORMATION, FOR EXAMPLE, IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES," I THINK, IF ONE GOES BACK TO THE '80s AND LOOK AT THE CUP REPORT, A DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ISRAEL, WHO SAID THAT ISRAEL WAS UNWILLING AND UNABLE TO INVESTIGATE CRIMES IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, IF ONE LOOKS AT A REPORT, IF ONE LOOKS AT GENERAL -- THREE-STAR GENERAL THAT WAS IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

BETWEEN 2019 AND 2021, WHO SAID THERE'S NO ACCOUNTABILITY, THE SIMPLE TRUTH IS THAT, FOR ALL THE APPLICATION OF THE LAW IN THE TERRITORY OF ISRAEL, UNFORTUNATELY, IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE APPLIED WITH VIGOR OR SINCERITY IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES OR IN GAZA.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

IF ISRAEL DISAGREES, IF THEY THINK THEY ARE INVESTIGATING THE SAME INDIVIDUALS AND THE SAME CONDUCT AND THE POLICIES THAT UNDERPIN THEM, THEY ARE FREE, NOT WITHSTANDING THEIR OBJECTIONS TO JURISDICTION, TO RAISE A CHALLENGE BEFORE THE JUDGES OF THE COURT, AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD ADVISE THEM TO DO.

BUT THE SIMPLE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, THE DISREGARD OF THE LAW IN THIS SITUATION, AND THE POLICIES AND THE UTTERANCES COMING FROM THE PRIME MINISTER, THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE, SUPPORT AND CORROBORATE THE OTHER EVIDENCE WE HAVE FROM A VARIETY OF SOURCES.

>> I JUST WANT TO FILL IN FOR OUR VIEWERS, YOU MENTIONED AN EIGHT-YEAR EFFORT TITLED "UNPUNISHED," AND AS YOU SAY, IT IS ABOUT THE FAILURE OF THE ISRAELI SYSTEM, POLICE, LEGAL, AND MILITARY, TO PUNISH SETTLERS ON THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK AS THEY PUNISH ARAB PALESTINIANS ON THE WEST BANK.

NOW, YOU TALK ABOUT THE STATE OF PALESTINE, AND THEREFORE, YOU HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK AND GAZA.

CLEARLY ISRAEL DISAGREES, THE UNITED STATES DISAGREES, THEY POINT OUT THAT AS YET THERE IS NO OFFICIAL STATE OF PALESTINE RECOGNIZED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL.

WHAT IS YOUR JURISDICTION THERE?

>> WELL, IT'S A JURISDICTION THAT'S DETAILED IN THE STATUTE, AND THAT HAS BEEN DECIDED BY MAJORITY BY THE PRETRIAL CHAMBER.

LEAVING ASIDE FOR THE MOMENT THE FACT THAT 141 COUNTRIES HAVE RECOGNIZED PALESTINE AS A STATE.

>> IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

124 STATES THAT MAKE UP THE ASSEMBLY OF STATE PARTIES AGREED FOR PALESTINE TO BE ACCEPTED AS A STATE PARTY TO THE ROME STATUTE.

AND SO, CLEARLY WE HAVE JURISDICTION.

THE GENEVA CONVENTION ALSO MAKES IT CLEAR THAT IT APPLIES TO HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES.

ISRAEL IS A HIGH CONTRACTING PARTY, AS IS PALESTINE.

>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> IT MEANS THAT THEY HAVE BOTH COMMITTED TO COMPLY WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS, THAT INCLUDES THE PROHIBITION ON STARVATION AS A METHOD OF WAR, THAT INCLUDES THE PROHIBITION ON TAKING HOSTAGES OR WILLFULLY KILLING OR EXTERMINATION.

THESE COME FROM THE ROME STATUTE.

BUT ORIGINALLY, THEY FOUND FORM IN THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS.

SO, WE APPLY THE LAW.

THERE'S BEEN JUDICIAL PRONOUNCEMENTS BY THE ICC, AND WE HAVE TO BE GUARDED BY THOSE.

>> THE HAMAS LEADERS WHO YOU HAVE SOUGHT ARREST WARRANTS FOR, DO YOU HAVE ANY HOPE THAT ANYBODY WILL MOVE AGAINST THEM?

DO YOU HAVE ANY HOPE OF EVER GETTING TO THEM?

AGAIN, THE ICC DOES NOT HAVE A POLICE FORCE, YOU CANNOT GO AND ABOUT PRI HEND.

AS FAR AS WE KNOW, AT LEAST TWO OF THEM ARE UNDERGROUND, POTENTIALLY IN TUNNELS IN GAZA.

AND HANIYEH APPEARS TO BE THE LEADER INVOLVED IN THE POLITICAL NEGOTIATIONS INDIRECT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS, WITH THE U.S., QATAR, OTHER NATIONS, MEDIATING.

HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO GO AFTER THEM?

WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAND THEM OVER?

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING IS FOR JUDGES TO RULE ON THE APPLICATIONS.

UNTIL THE JUDGES RULE ON THE APPLICATION, ALL IT IS IS AN APPLICATION THAT DOESN'T HAVE LEGAL EFFECT.

BUT THEN, STATES HAVE CERTAIN RESPONSIBILITIES, AND INDIVIDUALS HAVE CHOICES.

IF INDIVIDUALS SAY THAT WHAT THEY'RE -- WHAT'S ALLEGED NOT MADE OUT, IT'S NONSENSE, PUT YOUR CASE BEFORE THE INDEPENDENT JUDGES OF THE COURT.

THIS COURT HAS HAD ACQUITTALS, THIS COURT HAS NOT CONFIRMED CASES.

THE RECORD SHOWS THAT IT'S A FORENSIC LABORATORY.

CASES ARE CONFIRMED OR CASES ARE KICKED OUT.

THAT APPLIES TO HAMAS LEADERS IF THEY WANT, AND IF NOT, WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT ARE THE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES, IF THEY'RE EITHER IN PALESTINE, WHICH IS A STATE PARTY, OR IF THEY'RE IN QATAR, WHICH IS A NONSTATE PARTY, BUT IN A WAY, THAT'S GETTING AHEAD OF OURSELVES.

TODAY, THE ANNOUNCEMENT IS THE APPLY APPLICATION, AND THE JUDGES HAVE TO BE GIVEN THE TIME TO ASSESS WHAT WE'VE GIVEN.

NOTHING IS A GIVEN.

THEY HAVE TO ASSESS IT AND TO MAKE A DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT TO ISSUE WARRANTS.

BUT I ALSO WANTED TO UNDERLINE THE FACT THAT YOU MENTIONED IN AN EARLIER QUESTION THE ALLEGATIONS OF ANTI-SEMITISM, THE HATE, THE IDEA THAT BY APPLYING THE LAW BLINDLY, WE ARE FAVORING ONE SIDE OR PERSECUTING OR BEING HOSTILE TO ANOTHER SIDE, AND NOTHING CAN BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH, WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE OF DISTINCTION THAT ARE RESPECTED, AND THEY INDEPENDENTLY CAME IN, I BROUGHT THEM IN, THEY SAT IN THE EVIDENCE REVIEW, AND THIS IS NOT A WITCH HUNT.

THIS IS NOT SOME KIND OF EMOTIONAL REACTION TO NOISE.

WE'VE BEEN CRITICIZED FOR GOING TOO SLOWLY, CRITICIZED FOR GOING TOO FAST.

IT'S A FORENSIC PROCESS THAT IS EXPECTED OF US AS AN INAGAIN INDEPENDENT COURT TO BUILD EVIDENCE THAT IS SOLID, THAT WILL NOT DISSOLVE IN THE COURTROOM.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE.

TODAY IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THAT FIRST STAGE, THE FIRST ROUND OF APPLICATIONS, IN WHICH WE SAY, WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB, WE NOW GIVE IT TO THE JUDGES TO SCRUTINIZE.

SO, IT'S NOT AGAINST ANY PEOPLE, AND IT'S NOT AGAINST OR FOR ANY INTEREST.

IT'S SIMPLY BECAUSE, IF WE DON'T APPLY THE LAW EQUALLY, WE'RE GOING TO DISINTEGRATE AS A SPECIES.

WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WEST BANK IS EXTREMELY WORRYING.

WE ARE ALSO INVESTIGATING.

BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN -- IN DEMOCRACIES, POLITICAL CHOICES TEND TO BE DETERMINATIVE.

AND ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT ISRAEL, THE LEADERS, THE COUNTRY, HAS A CHOICE.

THAT THEY CAN ENGAGE AND DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO MEET COMPLIMENTS.

IN IRAQ, IT WAS FOUND THAT THERE WERE DEFICIENCIES IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM FOR MILITARY JUSTICE.

BUT WE HAVE REALLY SINCERELY LOOKED AT THINGS WITH A BROAD HORIZON, LOOKING AT INCRIMINATING AND EXONERATING EVIDENCE EQUALLY.

LOOKING AT EVIDENCE, AUTHENTICATING THE EVIDENCE, AND REALIZING THAT WE'RE NOT WORTH THE JOB, THE TITLE AS BEING A PROSECUTOR, OR BEING LAWYERS, OR HAVING AN INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT, IF WE ARE DISSUADED BECAUSE EXTRANEOUS INTERESTS, FROM MOVING FORWARD, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, I GO BACK TO THE BASIS PREMISE.

A CHILD IN MYANMAR THAT'S PERSECUTED, OR A CHILD IN ISRAEL THAT IS AN ORPHAN, OR THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN AND KILLED, OR ONE IN UKRAINE, FOR THEIR FAMILY, THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE.

THEIR UNIVERSE HAS BEEN TORN TO SHREDS.

AND THIS IS THE NEED FOR THE COURT AND INDEPENDENT JUDGES TO SCRUTINIZE, NOT LOOK AT THE POLITICS, NOT LOOK AT THE DIFFICULTIES IT MAY CAUSE REGIONAL ORGANIZATIONS OR DIFFERENT GROUPINGS.

BUT SIMPLY SAY, IS THE EVIDENCE RELIABLE?

AND IF SO, WE GO BACK TO KING JOHN, THAT THE KING IS UNDER NO MAN BUT GOD UNDER LAW.

WE ALL MUST BE SUBJECT TO THAT.

OTHERWISE, WHAT IS THIS INTERNATIONAL RULES-BASED SYSTEM, WHAT IS THE PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL LAW THAT SO MANY MEN AND WOMEN HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIVES FOR SINCE THE SECOND WORLD WAR?

PARTICULARLY.

AND I THINK IT'S A DISHONOR FOR THEM, IT'S A DISHONOR FOR THE VICTIMS OF THE GAS CHAUM PERS, IF WE AIR BRUSH OUT INCONVENIENT TRUTHS.

AND WE HAVE TO TRY OUR BEST FOR JUSTICE FOR THE VICTIMS OF SEVENTH OF OCTOBER, AND TRY OUR BEST TO DO JUSTICE FOR SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT ARE SUFFERING AS WE SPEAK IN ISRAEL AND ALSO IN GAZA, AS WELL AS IN OTHER PARTS OF PALESTINE.

>> PROSECUTOR KARIM KHAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> THERE HAS BEEN A FURIOUS RESPONSE, NOT JUST FROM WITHIN ISRAEL, BUT FROM MANY OF ISRAEL'S ALLIES, INCLUDING THE STATE DEPARTMENT, THE WHITE HOUSE IN THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN HAS RELEASED A STATEMENT ON THIS, IN WHICH HE SAYS, "THE ICC PROSECUTOR'S APPLICATION FOR ARREST WARRANTS AGAINST ISRAELI LEADERS IS OUTRAGEOUS, AND LET ME BE CLEAR, WHATEVER THIS PROSECUTOR MIGHT IMPLY, THERE IS NO EQUIVALENCE, NONE, BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS.

WE WILL ALWAYS STAND WITH ISRAEL AGAINST THREATS TO ITS SECURITY."

LET US GET REACTION NOW TO THE REQUESTING OF THE WARRANTS, I'LL JOINED BY THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER GEOFFREY NICE.

HE SERVED AS THE LEAD PROSECUTOR AT THE TRIAL OF SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC, THE FORMER YUG SLAVE YAN LEADER WHO PRESIDED OVER THE ETHNIC GENOCIDE IN BOSNIA IN THE '90s.

GEOFFREY NICE, WELCOME TO THE PRACTICE.

I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE REQUEST FOR THESE ARREST WARRANTS.

YOU KNOW KARIM KHAN.

HE'S BEEN IN YOUR CHAMBERS.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?

>> I THINK IT'S GOOD NEWS, NOT BECAUSE OF ANY PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL NAME IN THE WARRANTS THAT HE REQUESTS, BUT BECAUSE IT SHOWS THAT THE ONLY EXISTING INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ORDER FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, WAR CRIMES, IS NOT FRIGHTENED TO INVESTIGATE A COUNTRY THAT HAS VERY POWERFUL SUPPORTERS, AND IS PREPARED TO APPROACH THE PROBLEM AS HE SAYS, AND THERE'S NO REASON TO DOUBT IT, DISPASSIONATELY AND OBJECTIVELY.

THE ALTERNATIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT FOR POLITICAL REASONS, HE WOULD HAVE AVOIDED HIS DUTY, AND EVEN IF THAT HAD BEEN SEEN IN THE SHORT-TERM AS IN SOME WAY FAVORABLE BY SOME COUNTRIES, THE LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCE OF THAT WOULD BE DISASTROUS, BECAUSE IT COULD BE THOUGHT AND ARGUED THAT IN THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT, WHICH HAS TAKEN SOME TIME TO REACH ITS PRESENT, MORE SATISFACTORY STATE THAN IT HAD EARLIER ON, IF IT'S UNABLE TO DEAL WITH EITHER THE RUSSIA/UKRAINE CASE OR THE ISRAEL/GAZA CASE, THEN IT'S A WORTHLESS AND USELESS INSTRUMENT, AND NEED NOT EXIST AT ALL.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT'S HAPPENED TODAY, GIVEN IN MIND ALL THE CAUTIOUS STEPS THAT HAVE TO BE FOLLOWED BEFORE ANYTHING NEXT HAPPENS, I THINK IS A WELCOME -- A WELCOME STEP.

>> MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ASK, AS I DID, TO THE PROSECUTOR, WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE, WILL IT STICK, WHAT ABOUT THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE PROVED IN A COURT OF LAW?

>> FIRST OF ALL, OF COURSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE, AND HE'S DESCRIBED IT, BUT ONLY IN A SUMMARY WAY, SO, I CAN'T EXPRESS A VIEW ON WHAT THE EVIDENCE MAY SHOW, HOWEVER, IF YOU CONSIDER THE CHAIN OF COMMAND POINT, LAWYERS WHO LIKE THINGS TO TAKE A LONG TIME, SAY, OH, YOU CAN'T PROVE THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.

WELL, CAN YOU NOT?

IF SOMETHING IS DONE IN THE NAME OF EITHER A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION OR IN THE NAME OF A WELL ORGANIZED STATE, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO MAKE CERTAIN INFERENCES ABOUT A CHAIN OF COMMAND IN THE ABSENCE OF EITHER THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION OR THE STATE, DISAVOWING WHAT'S HAPPENED.

THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IN THESE CASES.

AND THERE'S BEEN LONG ENOUGH FOR THEM TO SAY, THAT HAPPENED BY MISTAKE.

IT'S BEEN SAID ONCE OR TWICE, BUT NOT OFTEN.

SO, THE CHAIN OF COMMAND MAY NOT BE SOMETHING YOU NEED AN ABSOLUTE PICTURE OF EVERY STEP IN THE CHAIN.

IT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT'S QUITE EASILY ESTABLISHED IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES BY A RANGE OF EVIDENCE.

AS FAR AS THE CRIMES ON THE GROUND ARE CONCERNED, YOU'VE GOT NOT JUST THE EVIDENCE THAT MR. KHAN SUMMARIZED, BUT YOU'VE ALSO GOT JUST THE IMAGERY WE'VE ALL SEEN OF THE MASSIVE DESTRUCTION OF CIVILIAN BUILDINGS AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES INTO WHICH PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUT.

NOW, I'M NOT GOING TO DRAW ANY PARTICULAR INFERENCES FROM THAT OR FROM ANYTHING ELSE, AND I'M CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO EXPRESS AN OPINION ABOUT WHETHER THESE APPLICATIONS ARE RIGHTLY MADE, BUT THE EVIDENCE COMES IN ALL SORTS OF FORMS THESE DAYS, ESPECIALLY WITH MEDIA EVERYWHERE, AND ABLE TO KEEP MEDIA IN GAZA.

AND I -- IT'S NOT BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF POSSIBILITY THAT THEY'LL FIND THE EVIDENCE IS SUFFICIENT.

>> AND THE DREADFUL EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN, OBVIOUSLY, FROM OCTOBER 7th, WITH THE HAMAS ATTACKS IN ISRAEL.

AND TO THAT POINT, WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU IS THE BACKLASH.

RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE FURIOUS REACTIONS FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, OBVIOUSLY FROM WITHIN ISRAEL ITSELF, ACROSS THE POLITICAL PECK SPRUM THERE.

SAYING, FIRST AND FOREMOST, HOW COULD THE PROSECUTOR ESSENTIALLY DRAW AN EQUIVALENCE, THEY MIGHT HAVE EVEN SAID A MORAL EQUIVALENCE, BETWEEN A DEMOCRATIC STATE, ISRAEL, AND A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, HAMAS.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?

HOW SHOULD PEOPLE THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THESE REQUESTS FOR THESE ARREST WARRANTS IN THE SAME DOCUMENT?

>> I DON'T THINK HE'S MAKING A POINT ABOUT MORAL E GIVE INNOCENCE.

NOT AT ALL.

HE'S SAYING THERE'S A SINGLE SET OF LAWS OF WAR, AND HE'S LOOKED AT IT FROM BOTH SIDES AND HE HAPPENS TO HAVE FOUND ENOUGH EVIDENCE IN HIS JUDGMENT TO PUT THESE REQUESTS BEFORE THE COURT.

SO, I DON'T THINK MORAL EQUIVALENCE COMES INTO IT.

I THINK HE'S FRANKLY -- IT'S UNWISE OF POWERFUL STATES LIKE BIDEN IN PARTICULAR TO WEIGH IN NOW AGAINST THE COURT.

IT'S LONG BEEN THE CASE THAT IF THE UNITED STATES REALLY WANTED TO HELP THE INTERESTS OF INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE, IT SHOULD HAVE PERHAPS CONSIDERED JOINING THE COURT, AND NOT SAYING THE VARIOUS THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID, NOT LEAST IN THE REGIME, I THINK, OF THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO PEOPLE FROM THE ICC IF THEY WENT TO INVESTIGATE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

BE FAR BETTER IF HE JOINED UP AND LED THE WAY FOR THE OTHER BIG COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NOT JOINED UP.

BUT BY COMING OUT NOW AND SUGGESTING THAT THE ONLY MECHANISM FOR INDEPENDENT ANALYSIS FOR THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES BY PARTIES IN A CONFLICT IS ACTING BADLY IS NOT HELPFUL.

AND HE SHOULD BE BEAR IN MIND, LIKE IT OR NOT, THAT THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF SYMPATHY AROUND THE WORLD FOR BOTH SIDES, AND THE SYMPATHY REFLECTS BELIEF, JUSTIFIED OR NOT, WAIT AND SEE UNTIL THE RESULTS COME IN, BUT THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF SYMPATHY FOR THE IDEA THAT CRIMES ARE BEING COMMITTED BY BOTH SIDES.

AND HE'S NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY THAT.

AND I YOU THIS IT'S UNHELPFUL FOR HIM TO HAVE SAID THE THINGS HE DID.

IT'S WORTH REMEMBERING THAT WHEN THE ICC WAS CREATED, THE BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY AT THE TIME, ROBIN COOK, INFAMOUSLY SAID, THIS COURT IS NOT SET UP TO TRY PRIME MINISTERS AND PRESIDENTS.

IT WAS FELT AT THE TIME THAT HE WAS COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE TO SAY THAT.

BUT IT'S ALMOST AS IF THAT APPROACH HAS CONTINUED SUB BLIM NALLY OR OTHERWISE, SO THAT LEADERS OF COUNTRIES SHOULD NOT BE PUT ON TRIAL.

COUNTRIES THEMSELVES SHOULD NOT BE INVESTIGATED, AS, FOR EXAMPLE, ISRAEL HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE.

AND I THINK THAT IT WOULD DO -- I'M SORRY.

GO ON.

>> SORRY, I NEED TO ASK YOU A QUESTION, BECAUSE THIS IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT QUESTION.

THOSE WHO HAVE SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THIS, AND ON ISRAEL'S BEHALF, HAVE SAID IT IS KIND OF A MISCARRIAGE OF INTENT BY THE ICC, OR OF OPERATION BY THE ICC, BECAUSE ISRAEL HAS ITS OWN INDEPENDENT COURT AND SYSTEM, IT'S A DEMOCRACY, I PUT THAT TO PROSECUTOR KARIM KHAN, AND NONETHELESS, IT'S BEING SAID THAT THE ICC DID NOT GET ENOUGH TRACTION OR SPEND ENOUGH TIME WITH THE ISRAELIS TO HAVE THEM BE ABLE TO DO IT, BUT WE ARE -- WE TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE INTERVIEW, HE SAID HE HAD TRIED AND HE HAD GOT NO DEFINITIVE OR, YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT HELP OR ACTION AND ANSWERS FROM THEM, AND HE HAD WARNED THEM IN PUBLIC BEFORE.

AND HE SAID, ESSENTIALLY, HE STANDS BY WHAT HE TOLD ME IN THIS INTERVIEW, THAT THE OFFICE HAS SOUGHT TO, AND WILL CONTINUE TO SEEK TO ENGAGE WITH ISRAEL AND ALL STATES.

THE PROSECUTOR HAS UNDERTAKEN THREE YEARS OF SUCH ENGAGEMENT, OBVIOUSLY PREDATING OCTOBER 7th, ON OTHER ISSUES, TO IMPROVE DIALOGUE AND SEEK INFORMATION, DESPITE SIGNIFICANT EFFORTS.

THE OFFICE HAS NOT RECEIVED ANY INFORMATION THAT HAS DEMONSTRATED GENUINE ACTION AT THE DOMESTIC LEVEL TO ADDRESS THE CRIMES ALLEGED OR THE INDIVIDUALS UNDER INVESTIGATION.

AND, AGAIN, THE PROSECUTOR CONTINUES TO SAY, IF ISRAEL DOES DECIDE TO TAKE THIS ON ITSELF, THEN THAT WOULD BE FOR ISRAEL TO DO.

SO, AGAIN, THE U.S. HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS, OTHERS HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS.

IT IS THE FIRST TIME A DEMOCRACY, A DEMOCRATIC LEADER, HAS BEEN TARGETED.

WE KNOW THAT HAMAS HAS, IT IS VIEWED AS NONSTATE ACTORS AND TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS, BUT IN THIS CASE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE CRITICISM THAT ISRAEL WASN'T LEFT TO DO IT ITSELF?

>> I THOUGHT THAT MR. KHAN GAVE A VERY GOOD ACCOUNT OF THE DECISION HE'S MADE.

AND, OF COURSE, IT WILL BE UP FOR THE JUDGES IN DUE COURSE TO DECIDE WHETHER HE'S RIGHT TO HAVE BROUGHT THE MATTER IN LIGHT OF THE HISTORY THAT ISRAEL MAY, AS HE HAS HIMSELF EXPLAINED, ARGUE IS SUFFICIENT.

I THINK WITHOUT EXPRESSING A VIEW, IT MIGHT BE EASY TO THINK THAT MANY PEOPLE WOULD FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE ISRAEL LEGAL SYSTEM WOULD FAIRLY PUT ON TRIAL THE MANY ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST IT FOR ITS TREATMENT OF AND SUPPORT BY THOSE WHO ACT IN ITS NAME OR UNDER ITS CONTROL, OF PEOPLE IN GAZA AND IN THE WEST BANK.

AND IT HAS TO BE REMEMBERED THAT -- SERIES OF EVENTS SINCE OCTOBER ARE PART OF A MUCH LONGER CONFLICT THAT HAS HAD RECURRING EVENTS, OPERATION PROTECTIVE EDGE, GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, AND THAT IT'S VERY HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE STATE OF ISRAEL ITSELF THROUGH ITS LEGAL SYSTEM WOULD BE ABLE OBJECTIVELY TO LOOK AT THE ISSUES THAT MANY PEOPLE THINK ARISE, THAT FRAME THE OVERALL CONFLICT OF WHICH THE SEVENTH, EIGHTH OF OCTOBER, A TRULY DREADLY, UNIMAGINABLE DREADFUL PART, THAT PEOPLE THINK ARE REPRESENTED BY ANOTHER PART OF WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING TO GAZA IN THE LAST SEVEN MONTHS.

>> GEOFFREY NICE, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" HAD A HUGE MAGAZINE INVESTIGATION ON PRECISELY THIS ISSUE THIS WEEKEND TITLED "UNPUNISHED."

AS WE DISCUSSED IN THE INTERVIEW.

I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CRITICISM, FROM THE UNITED STATES, FROM BRITAIN, WHO SAID THIS IS NOT HELPFUL, IT WILL NOT ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF PEACE, IT WILL STAND IN THE WAY OF THE ATTEMPTS TO GET A CEASE-FIRE AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS, THE DIPLOMACY.

YOU KNOW THAT THIS WAS THE SAME CRITICISM, BECAUSE I ALSO WAS THERE AND I REPORTED ON IT, WHEN MILOSEVIC WAS INDICTED.

CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT?

>> IT WAS SHOWN TO BE INCORRECT IN THE CASE OF MILOSEVIC, AS I BELIEVE IT WILL BE SHOWN TO BE INCORRECT IN THIS CASE.

IN EACH CASE, THERE'S A LONG HISTORY.

THIS ONE, AS I'VE SUGGESTED, GOING BACK, CERTAINLY TO THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, QUITE POSSIBLY BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE 20th CENTURY.

THE BALKAN WARS, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU VIEW THEM, GOING BACK TO THE SECOND WORLD WAR, POSSIBLY TO THE CREATION OF THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA AT THE END OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR, AND IN EACH CASE, REMEMBER, THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY'S PRINCIPLE POWERFUL ACTORS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AND HAVE BEEN INVOLVED UNSUCCESSFULLY IN STOPPING THE CONFLICTS DEVELOPING.

THESE CONFLICTS, THESE TRAGEDIES, ARE NOT THE RESULT OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SUFFERING.

THEY ARE A CONSEQUENCE OF BAD POLITICIANS ON EITHER SIDES OF THE CONFLICTS OR THE MANY SIDES OF THE CONFLICTS IN THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA.

THEY ARE ALSO A CONSEQUENCE OF A POWERFUL INTERNATIONAL ACTORS NOT STOPPING IT FROM HAPPENING, AND THEREFORE, WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS IF WE'RE PAYING TOO MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT, AFTER ALL, THE TWO SEQUENTIAL PATRONS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, WHO MAY BEAR A GREAT DEAL OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR OVERALL WHAT'S HAPPENED, GREAT BRITAIN AND THE UNITED STATES, WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT WHAT THEY MAY SAY IS WRONG IN BRINGING AN OBJECTIVE, INDEPENDENT VIEW TO EVENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED ON BOTH SIDES, SINCE OCTOBER.

>> GEOFFREY NICE, FORMER PROSECUTOR AT THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR YUGOSLAVIA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

AND WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO CURRENT ISRAELI OFFICIALS AND INDEED HAMAS FOR RESPONSE.

THE ISRAELIS DECLINED TO APPEAR, HAMAS DID NOT RESPOND.

BUT HERE'S WHAT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAID IN A STATEMENT EARLIER THAT HE RECORDED.

>> Translator: THE ABSURD AND FALSE ORDER OF THE PROSECUTOR IN THE HAGUE IS NOT ONLY DIRECTED AGAINST THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL AND THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE, IT IS DIRECTED AGAINST THE ENTIRE STATE OF ISRAEL.

IT IS DIRECTED AGAINST THE SOLDIERS WHO ARE FIGHTING WITH HEROISM AGAINST THE VILE WHAT HAS MURDERS WHO ATTACKED US ON OCTOBER 7th.

PROSECUTOR IN THE HAGUE, WITH WHAT AUDACITY DO YOU DARE COMPARE HAMAS TO THE SOLDIERS OF THE IDF, THE MOST MORAL ARMY IN THE WORLD?

>>> AND WE ARE NOW GOING TO GO TO THE FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES, MICHAEL OREN, TO GET HIS REACTION.

MICHAEL OREN, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

TO TALK ABOUT THESE ICC MOVES.

I KNOW YOU'VE LISTENED TO THE PROSECUTOR INTERVIEW, YOU'VE JUST LISTENED TO GEOFFREY NICE AND TO YOUR PRIME MINISTER.

CAN I JUST ASK YOU, DO YOU -- JUST WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, CHRISTIANE.

I'M GOING TO QUOTE PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENT BIDEN, SAYING THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS, AND IT'S ACTUALLY BEYOND OUTRAGEOUS, IT'S CRIMINALLY OUTRAGEOUS.

THIS IS NOT JUST EQUATING ISRAEL AND ISRAELI SOLDIERS WITH HAMAS, THE MASSACRERS OF OCTOBER 7th -- AGAINST AN ENEMY THAT IS USING THE CIVILIAN POPULATION AS HUMAN SHIELDS AND USING GAZA ITSELF AS A HUMAN SHIELD.

ISRAEL IS FIGHTING A DOUBLE BATTLE, ABOVE GROUND AND BELOW GROUND.

THAT'S THE LEAST OF IT.

I LOOK AT THIS DECISION, AND I SEE AN IMMENSE DANGER TO THE ENTIRE WEST.

I DON'T KNOW HOW ANY COUNTRY, ANY DEMOCRACY WOULD BE ABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF IN THE FUTURE.

YOU KNOW -- GAZA IS A TRAGEDY, AND I WANT TO GO ON SAYING THAT, VERY, VERY STRONGLY.

I'M NOT A SPOKESMAN FOR THE GOVERNMENT, BUT I DEEPLY BELIEVE THIS.

IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE STATISTICS, THE NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS KILLED BY PALESTINIAN ROCKETS, THOSE THAT DIE OF NATURAL CAUSES, AND THE 15,000 PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS THAT THE IDF HAS KILLED, YOU HAVE A RATIO OF ONE COMBATANT TO EVERY CIVILIAN DEATH IN GAZA, THAT IS A FRACTION OF WHAT IT WAS WHEN THE UNITED STATES FOUGHT IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AND SYRIA.

HOW IS THE UNITED STATES GOING TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF IN THE FUTURE, IF THIS IS THE CONSEQUENCE?

IS THE ICC GOING TO ISSUE AN ARREST WARRANT FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE?

I SEE THIS AS A REAL WATERSHED, AND NOT IN A VERY POSITIVE WAY, FOR THE WEST'S ABILITY TO DEFEND ITSELF.

>> AS WE KNOW, THE UNITED STATES IS NOT PARTY TO IT, AND PARTLY BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WANT EVER TO BE PUT BEFORE AN INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL.

YOU MENTIONED THE INCREDIBLE DEATH TOLL IN BOTH IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU -- AND WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU, IS WHETHER YOU THINK, AND YOU REGRET SOME OF THE PUBLIC STATEMENTS WHICH ARE PART OF WHAT'S BEING CITED BY ISRAELI OFFICIALS, NOTABLY BY YOAV GALLANT, IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THE HORROR OF OCTOBER 7th, ABOUT THE COMPLETE SIEGE, ABOUT DEALING WITH HUMAN ANIMALS, JUST LISTING WHAT THEY WOULD NOT ALLOW IN, LIFE-SUSTAINING GOODS, WATER, FOOD, ENERGY, ET CETERA, AND NOTHING WENT IN FOR TWO WEEKS.

AND THERE IS -- THE IDEA THAT STARVATION, CITED BY THE ICC, THAT STARVATION IS BEING USED AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

DO YOU REGRET THOSE STATEMENTS THAT YOUR OWN SENIOR GOVERNMENT LEADERS MADE?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY EASY NOW, 7 1/2 MONTHS AFTER THE EVENTS OF OCTOBER 7th, TO REGRET THE STATEMENTS, YES, CERTAINLY.

BUT THIS WAS THE GREATEST SINGLE MASSACRE OF JEWISH PEOPLE SINCE THE HOLOCAUST.

THE TRAUMA IS -- OVER 250 ISRAELIS DRAGGED INTO SATANIC CAPTIVITY IN GAZA.

WE'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

SO, I -- I THINK I KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE TYPE OF VISCERAL REACTION THAT ISRAELI LEADERS HAD AT THE TIME.

WE CAN REGRET IT NOW.

I'LL RECALL SOME OF THE STATEMENTS BY AMERICANS AFTER 9/11.

I RECALL SOME OF THE STATEMENTS MADE BY AMERICANS AFTER THE ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR.

TODAY, WE CAN REGRET IT, BUT YES, IT WOULD BE BETTER IF THEY HADN'T BEEN SAID, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND IT AT THE TIME.

>> AND AS YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED THE UNITED STATES.

YOU REMEMBER THAT EVEN IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF OCTOBER 7th, WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MADE THAT INCREDIBLE DEMONSTRATION OF U.S. SOLIDARITY BY GOING OVER TO ISRAEL, EMBRACING THE PRIME MINISTER, SPEAKING TO WOUNDED FAMILIES, HE ALSO URGED PRIME MINISTER NOT TO MAKE AMERICAN MISTAKES, THE SAME THAT YOU CITE, AFTER, YOU KNOW, OVER IRAQ, ET CETERA, NOT TO BE LED BY, YOU KNOW, THE EMOTIONS AND THE ANGER AND THE VENGEFULNESS OF AFTER SUCH A MASSIVE ATTACK.

SO, EVEN THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN SAYING TO YOUR GOVERNMENT, PLEASE ABIDE BY THE LAWS AND RULES OF WAR.

SO, THEY MAY CRITICIZE NOW, BUT THEY'VE BEEN SAYING IT, AS WELL.

AND DO YOU THINK, AND THAT'S ONE QUESTION, THE OTHER QUESTION IS, WHY DO YOU THINK THE ISRAELI JURISDICTION HAS NOT COME FORTH WITH DOING THIS ITSELF, AS THE PROSECUTOR HAS SUGGESTED IT SHOULD HAVE DONE?

>> WELL, TO ANSWER YOUR SECOND QUESTION FIRST, I THINK THAT THERE HAVEN'T BEEN CHARGED LEVELS ON A MASSIVE SCALE THE WAY THE COURT HAS DONE.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOLDIERS -- COURT MARTIALED FOR ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR, BOTH IN THE WEST BANK AND IN GAZA.

IT HAPPENS.

AND OUR COURT SYSTEM IS A WORLD-RESPECTED COURT SYSTEM, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT ANY INTERNATIONAL BODY HAS COME ALONG, IN MY MIND, AND REALLY CALLED INTO QUESTION, IMPUGNED THE WORLD COURT.

AS FOR AMERICA'S CRITICISM OF ISRAEL, WE'VE HEARD IT, WE HEARD IT EARLY ON IN THE WAR, WE'VE TAKEN ISSUE WITH IT, I'VE TAKEN ISSUE WITH IT.

I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE ISRAELI ARMY IS, IN FACT, THE MOST MORAL ARMY IN THE WORLD, HAS TAKEN EXTRAORDINARY STEPS TO LIMIT CIVILIAN CASUALTIES, AND I THINK THE FIGURES BEAR THAT OUT.

AS I SAID BEFORE, IT'S CLOSE TO ONE TO ONE, FOR EVERY COMBATANT, EVERY CIVILIAN DEATH.

THAT IS A RECORD UNMATCHED BY ANY OTHER ARMY IN MODERN WARFARE, AND NO OTHER ARMY HAS HAD TO FIGHT IN AN AREA WHERE THE CIVILIAN POPULATION CANNOT REALLY RUN AWAY VERY FAST, AND HAD TO GO AGAINST 400 MILES OF TUNNELS THERE'S ACTUALLY NO PRECEDENT FOR THIS IN INTERNATIONAL -- IN WORLD HISTORY.

AND I'M JUST GOING TO REITERATE WHAT I SAID EARLIER.

THIS IS A WATERSHED.

YOU KNOW, THE UNITED STATES PASSED A LAW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THIS, BACK IN 2002, THERE'S A LAW CALLED THE AMERICAN SERVICE DEFENSE ACT, WHERE AMERICAN CONGRESSPEOPLE ANTICIPATED PRECISELY SUCH AN ACT BY THE ICC, SAID THAT THE UNITED STATES WOULD NOT -- WOULD DEFEND ITS SOLDIERS AGAINST CLAIMS MADE BY THE ICC, AND THAT EXTENDED TO AMERICA'S ALLIES.

WE ARE AMERICA'S ALLIES, AND I BELIEVE AND TRUST THAT ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES WILL STAND STRONG TOGETHER AGAINST THIS OUTRAGEOUS RULING.

>> I THINK WE HAVE 15 SECONDS.

PRIME MINISTER SAYS IT WILL NOT DETER FROM CONTINUING THE WAR AGAINST HAMAS, THERE ARE MANY QUESTIONS, EVEN AMONGST YOUR OWN OFFICIALS NOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GOING AS WELL AS THEY HOPED, AND THAT THEY ARE CALLING ON THE PRIME MINISTER FOR A PROPER POST-WAR PLAN.

IN 15 SECONDS, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT?

>> WELL, I PERSONALLY THINK THERE SHOULD BE A POST-WAR PLAN.

I AGREE WITH THAT.

I DON'T THINK THE ICC RULING WILL AFFECT ISRAEL'S OPERATIONS ON THE GROUND.

IT IS NOT ABOUT NETANYAHU, IT IS NOT ABOUT GALLANT, IT IS ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO TAKE EVERY MEASURE POSSIBLE TO DEFEND OUR PEOPLE AND DEFEND OUR STATE.

>> MICHAEL OREN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> AND THAT IT IS FOR NOW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND