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♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> OUR DECISION TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WAIT INDEFINITELY.

IT ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> THREE EUROPEAN NATIONS LEAD THE MOVE TO RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF PALESTINE.

I SPEAK TO SPAIN'S FOREIGN MINISTER ABOUT WHY HIS COUNTRY DECIDED NOW IS THE TIME.

>>> PLUS -- WE FOCUS ON THE WOMEN.

IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE VIDEO SEWING SEAN "DIDDY" COMBS' ASSAULT ON HIS GIRLFRIEND, I'M JOINED BY TWO SURVIVORS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, AND FAMED VICTIMS RIGHTS LAWYER GLORIA ALLRED.

>>> THEN -- >> IT'S GONE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF UNDER THE RADAR FOR SO MANY YEARS, BECAUSE IN MANY WAYS, IT CAN BE SEEN AS A SORT OF PERFECT COVERUP FOR POLICE VIOLENCE.

>> WHAT IS EXCITED DLEEB YUM?

P WE TALK ABOUT RACE, POLICE VIOLENCE, AND THE INVENTION OF A DISEASE.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THREE EUROPEAN LEADERS TODAY MADE A MAJOR DIPLOMATIC MOVE TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD.

SPAIN, NORWAY, AND IRELAND SAY THE DECISION IS AN IMPORTANT STEP TOWARDS PEACE.

>> NEXT TUESDAY, ON THE 28th OF MAY, SPAIN WILL APPROVE THE RECOGNITION OF THE STATE OF PALESTINE.

>> THIS IS AN INVESTMENT IN THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT CAN BRING LASTING PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

IT IS A STRONG CALL TO OTHER COUNTRIES TO DO THE SAME, AS WE ARE DOING TODAY.

>> IN THE LEADUP TO TODAY'S ANNOUNCEMENT, I'VE SPOKEN WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER LEADERS AND COUNTERPARTS, AND I'M CONFIDENT THAT FURTHER COUNTRIES WILL JOIN US IN TAKING THIS IMPORTANT STEP IN THE COMING WEEKS.

>> NOW, THIS OFFICIAL RECOGNITION IS NOT MEANT TO TAKE EFFECT UNTIL NEXT WEEK.

WHILE MORE THAN 140 COUNTRIES HAVE RECOGNIZED THE PALESTINIAN STATE, THE UNITED STATES AND MOST OF ITS ALLIES HAVE NOT, AND ISRAEL REACTED RIGHT AWAY, RECALLING ITS AMBASSADORS FROM ALL THREE COUNTRIES.

HERE WITH ME NOW IS SPAIN'S FOREIGN MINISTER, JOSE MANUEL ALBARES.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, FROM MADRID.

CAN I JUST START ASKING YOU THE OBVIOUS, WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO DO THIS?

AND WHAT MADE NOW THE RIGHT TIME?

>> FOR THREE REASONS.

FIRST OF ALL, BECAUSE OF THIS, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT WILL BRING DEFINITE PEACE TO THE MIDDLE EAST, TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, AND TO THE ISRAELI PEOPLE IS A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

AND THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT IT AND TO FOSTER IT, IS RECOGNIZING PALESTINE.

SECONDLY, BECAUSE OF JUSTICE.

BECAUSE THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE MUST NOT BE CONDEMNED FOREVER TO BE A PEOPLE OF REFUGEES.

THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR OWN LAND.

AND THIRDLY, BECAUSE OF PURE HUMANITY.

1,200 ISRAELIS KILLED ON OCTOBER 7th, MORE THAN 35,000 PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH.

WE MUST BRING AND STABILITY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, TO THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, AND TO THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE DECIDED TO TAKE THAT ACTION NEXT TUESDAY IN THE SPANISH COUNCIL OF MINISTERS.

>> SO, AS I SAID, AND YOU ALL SAID THAT THIS WON'T OFFICIALLY, AS YOU SAID JUST NOW, TAKE EFFECT UNTIL NEXT WEEK.

HOW MUCH CONSULTATION DID YOU HAVE, LET'S SAY, WITH THE UNITED STATES?

DID YOU, YOU KNOW, TELL ISRAEL, DID YOU GIVE THEM A HEADS UP?

WITH OTHER EUROPEAN NATIONS?

WHAT WAS THE DIPLOMATIC PROCESS BY WHICH YOU THREE MADE THIS JOINT ANNOUNCEMENT?

>> THE DECISION WAS ANNOUNCED A LONG TIME AGO.

FIRSTLY, IT WAS IN THE MANIFESTO, THE PROGRAM, WHICH WE WENT TO ELECTIONS, THE POLITICAL PARTIES IN THE COALITION LAST JULY.

IT'S ALSO PART OF THE COALITION PROGRAM OF GOVERNING, THE RECOGNITION OF THE STATE OF PALESTINE, SO, THERE WAS NO DOUBT THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT WAS GOING TO DO.

AND I ATTENDED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, THE SECURITY COUNCIL IN WHICH I ANNOUNCED THAT WE WOULD RECOGNIZE VERY SHORTLY THE STATE OF PALESTINE, THAT'S WHY WE VOTED IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED NATIONS IN FAVOR OF THE ACCESSION OF PALESTINE TO THE U.N., AND WE SPONSORED THE RESOLUTION.

AND, OF COURSE, WE DISCUSSED THIS WITH ALL OF OUR FRIENDS, PARTNERS, AND ALLIES, VERY AND ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE EUROPEAN UNION.

WE HAD EXTENSIVE EXCHANGE OF DIFFERENT COUNTRIES IN THE SAME POSITION AS US TO MOVE FORWARD, TO DO IT JOINTLY, AND THE PRESIDENT SIGNED A DOCUMENT WITH THE PRIME MINISTER OF MALTA, IRELAND, AND SLOVENIA, TO MOVE FORWARD IN THAT SENSE, AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE DOING IT JOINTLY WITH IRELAND AND OTHER COUNTRIES, LIKE NORWAY, EXPRESSED THEIR INTEREST, AND WE HAVE CHANGED WITH THEM.

AND NOT THAT LONG AGO, I WAS IN WASHINGTON, AND I HAD A MEETING WITH TONY BLINKEN, IN WHICH WE WERE DISCUSSING THE MIDDLE EAST, I EXPLAINED OUR POSITION, AND WE THINK THAT POSITION, I EXPLAINED, THAT RECOGNITION FOR US WAS THE RIGHT TOOL TO PROTECT THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION, AND ALSO TO TRY TO GUARANTEE PEACE, TO MAKE SURE THAT AT THIS TIME IT WOULD BE THE LAST TIME THAT WE SEE THIS TYPE OF WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND PALESTINIANS.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER ALBARES SO, DID THE SECRETARY OF STATE AGREE WITH YOU?

THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN THE MAIN BACKER OF A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, HISTORICALLY, AND NORWAY, WITH THE OSLO PEACE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF YOUR CO-RECOGNIZERS TODAY.

WHAT DID THE -- WHAT DID BLINKEN SAY WHEN YOU ALERTED HIM YOU WERE GOING TO DO THIS?

>> I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO THE DETAILS OF THIS CONVERSATION, DIPLOMATIC CONVERSATION, BUT HE EXPRESSED THE U.S.

POSITION, WHICH IS VERY WELL-KNOWN, AND HE STATED IT VERY CLEARLY, AS I STATED MY POSITION.

WE ARE TWO GOOD FRIENDS, TWO ALLIES, SPAIN AND THE UNITED STATES, AND WE EXCHANGED FRIENDLY ABOUT IT.

I MADE CLEAR OUR POSITION AND HE MADE CLEAR THE POSITION OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND I REALLY COMMEND THE WORK THAT TONY BLINKEN IS DOING JOINTLY WITH QATAR AND EGYPT TO TRY TO GET PEACE BACK TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> SO, THE PALESTINIANPALESTINI CERTAINLY SOME MEMBERS OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, HAVE PRAISED AND THANKED YOUR THREE NATIONS FOR WHAT THEY CALL THE COURAGEOUS DECISION.

I JUST WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ONE OF YOUR -- ONE OF THE OTHER NATIONS, THE PRIME MINISTER, OF IRELAND, WHAT HE SAID, SIMON HARRIS, ABOUT WHY NOW.

>> OUR DECISION TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WAIT INDEFINITELY.

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

IT IS A DECISION BEING TAKEN ON ITS MERITS, BUT WE CANNOT IGNORE THE FACT AS PALESTINIANS IN GAZA ARE ENDURING THE MOST APPALLING SUFFERING, HARDSHIP, AND STARVATION.

A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE, UNIMAGINABLE TO MOST, AND UNCONSCIONABLE TO ALL, IS UNFOLDING IN REAL TIME.

HOW CAN ANYONE JUSTIFY CHILDREN GOING TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, NOT KNOWING IF THEY WILL WAKE UP?

>> AS YOU KNOW, THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER AND OTHER MINISTERS HAVE REACTED VERY ANGRILY.

THEY HAVE BASICALLY SAID THAT YOU ARE REWARDING TERROR, YOU'RE REWARDING HAMAS.

WHO EXACTLY ARE YOU RECOGNIZING?

>> IT'S VERY CLEAR, WE ARE RECOGNIZING THE STATE OF PALESTINE WITH THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL AUTHORITY.

IT'S OUR PARTNER SINCE A LONG TIME AGO.

IT'S A PARTNER FOR PEACE.

AND THEY ACCEPT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

WE WILL NOT ACCEPT A PARTNER THAT IS NOT A PARTNER FOR PEACE.

ACTUALLY, THIS RECOGNITION STRENGTHEN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

THAT IT'S A PARTNER FOR PEACE.

AND WILL REDUCE THE PUBLIC SPACE FOR THOSE THAT DON'T WANT THE EXISTENCE AND STATE OF ISRAEL OUT OF THIS.

WHEN WE HAVE TAKEN THIS DECISION, WE HAVE ALSO TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION THE LEGITIMATE CLAIMS OF SECURITY OF THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ARE FRIENDS OF THE PEOPLE OF SPAIN.

AND WE TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY THEIR LEGITIMATE CLAIMS OF SECURITY.

THE BEST WAY, THE BEST WAY TO DO IT IS BY RECOGNITION.

BECAUSE AT THE END, THE HOPE OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE, IT'S COMPLETELY LINKED TO THE LEGITIMATE GUARANTEES OF SECURITY TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL, AND DURING THIS, IMPLEMENTING A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, WE EXPECT ALSO THAT ALL THE ARAB COUNTRIES WILL NORMALIZE RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL.

SO, NOT ONLY IT REDUCES THE SPACE OF THOSE THAT WANT WAR, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT ALSO WILL BRING PEACE AND SECURITY FOR EVERYONE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IF WE IMPLEMENT WHAT WE KNOW IS THE SOLUTION FOR THE OLDEST PROBLEM ON THE TABLE OF U.N. THAT IS THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

>> BUT HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CONVINCE ISRAEL AND THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, WHO YOU SPEAK ABOUT NOW, THAT THIS IS THE CASE?

BECAUSE NOT ONLY DID THE PRIME MINISTER REITERATE HIS VIEW, AND LET ME GET IT CORRECT, HIS VIEW THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF PALESTINIAN STATE IS AN EXISTENTIAL DANGER TO ISRAEL.

ALSO, AS YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, THE MAJORITY OF THE ISRAELI PEOPLE HAVE MOVED VERY FAR AWAY FROM THIS NOTION OF PEACE AND A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CONVINCE ISRAEL, BECAUSE IT -- PRESUMABLY HAS A VETO OVER THIS.

TELL ME HOW IT WORKS.

>> MANY TIMES IN HISTORY, ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS HAVE AGREED TO A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

IT HAS THE CONSENSUS OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

THERE ARE ALREADY 143 COUNTRIES THAT RECOGNIZE PALESTINE AND THE THREE, INCLUDING SPAIN, THAT ARE ADDING IT NOW, WILL MAKE IT 146 IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ACCESSION OF PALESTINE AS A FULL MEMBER, FULL STATE IN UNITED NATIONS, THE VOTE WAS OVERWHELMINGLY IN FAVOR OF THAT, SO, WE ALL KNOW THAT THAT'S THE SOLUTION.

I THINK THAT AS SOON AS PEACE GOES BACK INTO THE MIDDLE EAST, WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE A GREAT EFFORT TO PUT THE PEACE CONFERENCE THAT SPAIN HAS BEEN CALLING FOR, IN WHICH WE WILL ALL BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

AND, OF COURSE, OF COURSE EVERYONE HAS TO BE AROUND THE TABLE.

WE THINK THAT BY THE STEP THAT WE ARE DOING TODAY, WE ARE PUSHING FOR PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> AND HOW DO YOU THINK THE ICC ACTION EARLIER THIS WEEK IN WHICH THEY ARE REQUESTING ARREST WARRANTS FOR BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, HIS DEFENSE MINISTER, AS WELL AS THE MILITARY AND POLITICAL LEADERS OF HAMAS, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT EFFECTS THIS?

AND, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

BECAUSE IT'S DRAWN VERY FURIOUS REACTION FROM THE UNITED STATES, FROM EUROPEANS, FROM ISRAEL, OF COURSE.

>> WE SUPPORT THE COURT, OF COURSE, AS WE SUPPORT THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE, AS WELL.

ACTUALLY, WE GIVE FUNDING TO THE COURT, AND TO BE ABLE TO TAKE AND CARRY OUT THEIR DUTIES.

SO, THE PROSECUTOR HAS PUT THAT ON THE TABLE.

NOW THE COURT HAS TO DECIDE.

AND SPAIN WILL BACK ANY DECISION THAT THE COURT IS TAKE, AS WE ARE DOING THE SAME WITH THE DECISIONS THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE IS ISSUING.

WE WILL BACK WHATEVER THEY DECIDE.

>> AND FINALLY, MEMBERS OF NETANYAHU'S COALITION, THE GOVERNING COALITION, WHO KEEPS HIM AS PRIME MINISTER, PEOPLE LIKE BMB MBENGA BEN GIVER AND T OTHERS, THEY HAVE ISSUED STRONG STATEMENTS TODAY, THREATENING TO DO ALL SORTS OF THINGS, BUILD NEW SETTLEMENTS IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK, STOP SENDING FUNDING, YOU KNOW, PALESTINIAN TAX DUES AND ET CETERA.

DO ALL SORTS OF THINGS AGAINST THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK, AS WELL AS THEY CALL FOR A RESETTLEMENT OF GAZA.

DO YOU -- ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT WHAT YOU'VE DONE COULD BACKLASH AND BACKFIRE AGAINST THE PEOPLE YOU ARE TRYING TO RECOGNIZE AND TRYING TO PUSH TOWARDS PEACE?

>> PALESTINIAN PEOPLE WERE ASKING US FOR RECOGNITION.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM.

WHEN THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OWN STATE, IT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAVE DONE, IS WHAT WE HAVE VOTED FOR IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, IN AN OVERWHELMING WAY.

THE SETTLEMENTS OF ISRAEL IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES ARE COMPL COMPLETELY ILLEGAL AND HAVE BEEN CONDEMNED BY THE EU, THE UNITED NATIONS, AND ALMOST THE MAJORITY, ALMOST THE TOTALITY OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

THE FACT OF NOT GIVING THE MONEY OF THE TAXES TO THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL AUTHORITY IS A WAY OF UNDERMINING THE PARTNER THAT WE ALL HAVE FOR PEACE, AND LETTING THE SPACE COMPLETELY FREE FOR THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN VIOLENCE AND IN WAR TO TAKE THE -- THE LEAD IN THIS SITUATION.

THEREFORE, WE HAVE OPPOSED TO THAT TYPE OF ACTION.

THAT WILL NOT BRING PEACE.

ONLY THE OPPOSITE.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER JOSE MANUEL ALBARES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US FROM MADRID.

>>> NOW, WE WANT TO TURN TO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, AND THE TROUBLING SHORTFALL IN ACTION AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO PROTECT THEM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

IN NEW YORK, A FORMER MODEL HAS FILED A NEW COMPLAINT AGAINST SEAN "DIDDY" COMBS, SAYING THAT HE DRUGGED AND SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER BACK IN 2003.

THIS, AFTER CNN ACCESSED THE SICKENING VIDEO OF THE MUSICIAN ABUSING HIS THEN GIRLFRIEND, CASSIE VENTURA.

WE WILL NOT SHOW THAT VIDEO OF HER BEING BUT YOU CAN SEE COMBS CHASING HER IN THIS SHORT CLIP.

WE'VE BEEN SCOURING THE PRESS REACTION TO THE ASSAULT, AND TO THIS VIDEO, EVER SINCE IT WAS RELEASED LAST WEEK, AND VERY LITTLE OF IT HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON THE ACTUAL WOMEN AT THE CENTER OF THIS, THE VICTIMS.

INSTEAD, IT'S BEEN ON THE BUSINESS AND THE CAREER AND THE FUTURE OF SEAN COMBS.

WORLDWIDE, 1 IN 3 WOMEN HAVE EXPERIENCED SOME FORM OF PHYSICAL OR SEXUAL VIOLENCE, AND WOMEN OF COLOR SUFFER THE MOST.

INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE IS THE KEY CONTRIBUTOR TO THE HIGHER RATE OF DEATHS COMPARED TO WHITE WOMEN.

AND I WANT TO DISCUSS THIS WITH MY PANEL TONIGHT THERE'S GLORIA ALLRED, SHE IS THE RENOWNED WOMEN'S RIGHTS ATTORNEY AND SHE'S JOINING US FROM LOS ANGELES.

SURVIVOR AND ADVOCATE LEJLA DAUTI, HERE WITH ME IN LONDON.

AND APRIL HERNANDEZ CASTILLO JOINING ME FROM NEW YORK.

LEJLA, I BUTCHERED YOUR LAST NAME.

CAN I JUST ASK YOU FIRST, BECAUSE THERE IS ALSO THE ISSUE OF PLAYING THIS VIDEO.

HAVE YOU SEEN IT?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT WAS AIRED?

>> I HAVEN'T WATCHED THE VIDEO, AND I'LL BE REALLY HONEST, THIS WHOLE -- EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN COME TO THE MEDIA ABOUT SEAN COMBS HAS BEEN VERY TRIGGERING, BECAUSE I MIGHT BE AN ADVOCATE AND A CAMPAIGNER, BUT ACTUALLY, I'M ALSO A SURVIVOR, AND TO WATCH HIS VIDEO, I CAN'T EVEN CALL IT AN APOLOGY VIDEO, TO WATCH THAT IS VERY TRIGGERING, BECAUSE A LOT OF US AS SURVIVORS WILL RECOGNIZE OUR PERPETRATORS IN HIM, AND FOR THAT REASON, I HAVE NOT WATCHED IT.

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL ASSAULT VIDEO, AND THEN HE CAME OUT AND POSTED AN APOLOGY.

>> YES.

>> AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK, AND I'LL ASK GLORIA ALLRED, ALSO, AND OUR OTHER GUEST, APRIL, WHETHER YOU THINK THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN AN APOLOGY, EVEN, AS IT WAS, IF THAT VIDEO HADN'T COME TO LIGHT.

>> NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN AALN APOLOGY.

THEY'RE NOT SORRY FOR WHAT THEY DID.

>> AND APRIL HERNANDEZ CASTILLO, I WANT TO TURN TO YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE ALSO IS SURVIVOR AND ADVOCATE AND ACTIVIST.

DID YOU SEE THE VIDEO?

I'M INTERESTED, BECAUSE SOME HAVE SAID, PEOPLE SHOULD SEE IT, BECAUSE IT SHOWS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, AND YOU'VE JUST HEARD THERE, SAYING IT'S TRIGGERING, SO, PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS.

I'M INTERESTED IN YOURS.

>> I DID WATCH IT.

I WATCHED IT AND IMMEDIATELY MY BODY FELT ALL OF THE TRAUMA COME BACK UP.

AND AS HARD AS IT WAS TO WATCH, HONESTLY, I WAS FINALLY HAPPY THAT THE WORLD CAN SEE WHAT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE LOOKS LIKE.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO YOU -- >> IT'S TERRIFYING.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO YOUR EXPERIENCES IN A MOMENT AFTER I BRING IN GLORIA ALLRED, THE RENOWNED WOMEN'S RIGHTS DEFENDER AND ATTORNEY.

GLORIA, AGAIN, THIS IS A WEEK LATER, A WEEK SINCE CNN ACTUALLY WAS ABLE TO GET THIS VIDEO AND SHOW THE WORLD WHAT ACTUALLY HAD HAPPENED.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT AND TO THE WHOLE LEGAL PROCESS THAT SIMPLY DOESN'T SEEM TO PUT WOMEN AT THE CENTER, THOSE WOMEN WHO ARE CLEARLY VICTIMS, AS THIS VIDEO SHOWS?

>> YOU'RE SO RIGHT, CHRISTIANE, BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A CELEBRITY CULTURE, SO, IT BECOMES ALL ABOUT THE CELEBRITY, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS, AS YOU POINT OUT.

IT WAS INTERESTING, BECAUSE WHEN CASSIE VENTURA FILED HER LAWSUIT, AND THEN, OF COURSE, THERE WERE DENIALS BY SEAN "DIDDY" COMBS, AND , YOU KNOW, SUGGESTIONS THAT THIS WAS ALL ABOUT A PAYDAY AND HE DENIED THAT, AND ALSO A NUMBER -- THE ALLEGATIONS THAT A NUMBER OF OTHER CIVIL LAWSUITS THAT WERE FILED.

HE DID THAT KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A VIDEO, BUT IT HADN'T BECOME PUBLIC, AND THE REASON HE KNEW THERE WAS A VIDEO WAS BECAUSE MANY YEARS AGO, REPORTEDLY, HE BOUGHT THAT VIDEO FROM THE NOW CLOSED INTERCONTINENTAL HOTEL IN CENTURY CITY.

SO, HE KNEW IT WAS THERE.

NOW, YOU KNOW, HE HAD TO ADMIT IT AND STOP THE DENIAL, AND HE SAID HE WAS SORRY, AND HE WAS GETTING THERAPY AND SO FORTH.

BUT YOU KNOW, THERE NEED TO BE CONSEQUENCES FOR VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, THAT'S WHAT WE SAW IN THE VIDEO, WE SAW HIM DRAGGING, KICKING, AND OTHERWISE TREATING CASSIE VENTURA AS THOUGH SHE'S AN OBJECT THAT HE OWNS, A PIECE OF PROPERTY, RATHER THAN A HUMAN BEING.

AND NOW, THERE CONTINUE TO BE LAWSUITS AGAINST HIM, AND IT MAY VERY WELL BE THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE FEDERAL CHARGES, AS WELL, FILED AT SOME POINT, EVEN THOUGH THE L.A. COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY SAYS IT'S TOO LATE TO FILE A LAWSUIT IN LOS ANGELES ON ACCOUNT OF THE VIOLENCE WE SEE IN THAT VIDEO.

>> SO, JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT CASSIE VENTURA HAS ANY -- YOU DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE A LAWSUIT THAT SHE COULD FILE OR CLAIM OR ANY OTHER CLAIMS AGAINST HIM FOR THIS PARTICULAR, NOW THAT THIS EVIDENCE HAS COME UP?

>> WELL, SHE DID FILE A LAWSUIT, AND THE NEXT DAY, HE SETTLED THAT LAWSUIT.

UNFORTUNATELY FOR HIM, THE USUAL STATEMENTS, WHICH ARE IN CONFIDENTIAL SETTLEMENTS, DON'T ALLOW EITHER THE ATTORNEY OR THE VICTIM TO SPEAK ABOUT IT UNLESS, OF COURSE, IT'S CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE, WHICH THIS WAS NOT, AND YET THE ATTORNEY FOR THE VICTIM CONTINUES TO SPEAK ABOUT IT, AND THAT VIDEO, WHICH ORDINARILY WOULD NOT BE MADE PUBLIC, HAS BEEN MADE PUBLIC, THE SOURCE OF IT, WE DON'T KNOW, BUT LOOK, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT HER, I'M GLAD SHE WAS ABLE TO SETTLE HER LAWSUIT, AND WE'LL SEE WHETHER THAT VIDEO BECOMES PART OF A FEDERAL PROSECUTION OR NOT, THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

THE FEDERAL PROSECUTION MIGHT BE BASED ON SEX TRAFFICKING.

IF, IN FACT, THERE WAS -- WERE FACTS THAT WOULD SUPPORT IT, MIGHT BE THE MAN ACT, WHICH BANS TAKING WOMEN FROM ONE STATE TO ANOTHER FOR THE PURPOSE OF COMMERCIAL SEX, IT MIGHT BE RICO WHICH IS THE RACKETEERING INFLUENCE CORRUPT ORGANIZATION ACT, IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, HIS RECORDINGS, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS INVOLVED IN ENABLING OTHER CRIMES.

SO, WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.

>> OKAY.

AND MEN TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU, LEJLA, IF YOU DON'T MIND, TO MAYBE TELL US WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHAT LED YOU TO BECOME AN ADVOCATE?

DID YOU GET ANY, YOU KNOW, SUFFICIENT HELP FROM EITHER THE LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR, YOU KNOW, THERAPY, OR THE LIKE?

>> SO, ACTUALLY, WHAT LED ME TO DOING MY WORK IS VERY MUCH LIKE GLORIA SAYS.

A LOT OF TIMES, WE BECOME OBSESSED WITH THE PERSON TRAYER TO, AND WE STOP FOCUSING ON THE VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS THEMSELVES.

SO, WE BECOMESTATISTICS.

WHAT I FOUND WAS, AFTER FLEEING MY PERPETRATOR, WAS ONCE IT WAS ALL SAID AND DONE AND THE DUST HAD SETTLED SO TO SPEAK AND I WAS PHYSICALLY SAFE AND I WASN'T AT RISK OF THE VIOLENCE, THE IMMEDIATE VIOLENCE, I KIND OF LOOKED AROUND, I THOUGHT, WELL, WHAT DO I DO NOW?

WHERE DO I GO NOW?

WHO DO I TURN TO NOW?

AND THERE WAS JUST NOTHING.

AND IT WASN'T EVEN THAT THE SUPPORT WAS LACKING IN QUALITY, IT DOESN'T JUST EXIST AT ALL.

IT WAS DESPERATE TO FIND WOMEN SOMEWHERE WHO WERE JUST LIKE ME WHO HAD EXPERIENCED WHAT I'D EXPERIENCED, WHICH IS WHY I TURNED TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND STARTED SHARING STORIES ON BEHALF OF THE WOMEN IN THE COMMUNITY, AND PRETTY ENOUGH OVERNIGHT, A COMMUNITY OF SURVIVORS FORMS AND IT WAS INDICATIVE OF THAT DESPERATE NEED TO HAVE THAT SAFE SPACE FOR WOMEN TO COME FORWARD AND THEIR THEIR STORIES.

>> I MEAN, IT IS CALLED INTIMATE -- >> INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE.

>> RIGHT.

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, IF YOU DON'T MIND SAYING?

>> SO, WHAT I EXPERIENCED WAS NONFATAL STRANGULATION, I MEAN, IT WAS A DIVERSE AMOUNT OF VIOLENCE, IT WAS FROM PUSHES AND SHOVES TO BLACK EYES, TO BEING THROWN THROUGH A GLASS DOOR, I STILL HAVE SCARS ON MY ARM TODAY.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, WE'VE ACTUALLY GOT THE STUFF THAT REALLY ENABLES THE ABUSE EVEN MORE, WHICH IS THE EMOTIONAL AND THE MENTAL ABUSE, THE ECONOMICAL ABUSE, THE GASLIGHTING, THE TRAUMA BONDING.

SO, THERE WAS A BIG, BIG ARRAY OF ABUSE THAT I SUFFERED.

>> LET ME TALK TO YOU -- LET ME TURN TO YOU APRIL, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, AND MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE STATISTICS AS WE'VE SHOWN IN THE UNITED STATES SHOW THAT WOMEN OF COLOR, BLACK WOMEN AND WOMEN OF COLOR, SUFFER DISPROPORTIONATELY ACROSS THE BOARD, FROM THE VIOLENCE FROM DEATH AND EVEN FROM BEING BELIEVED AND BEING ABLE TO PROSECUTE CASES AND PROSECUTE THE ALLEGED PERPETRATORS.

>> I WAS ABUSED FROM THE AGE OF 16 TO ABOUT 19 1/2.

I WAS PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY ABUSED, TO THE POINT WHERE MY ABUSER NEARLY TOOK MY LIFE.

AND THEN I BEGAN TO HAVE AND SUFFER FROM SUICIDAL IDEATIONS.

AND IT WASN'T UNTIL THAT MOMENT WHERE I DIDN'T WANT TO WAKE UP ANYMORE, BECAUSE OF THE SHAME AND PAIN THAT I FELT, WHERE I REALIZED, AT THAT MOMENT, I HAVE TO LEAVE.

AND I FOUND THE COURAGE TO FINALLY SAY, I'M DONE, IT'S ENOUGH, AND SO, I MADE A DECISION TO LEAVE AND ALSO TO LIVE MY LIFE AND MAKE THE CHOICE THAT I WOULD USE IT.

I WAS ALSO IN THE MOVIE "FREEDOM RIDERS" WITH HILLARY SWANK AND IT REALLY SHOWED ME THE POWER OF OUR STORIES, AND THAT IS WHEN I BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF A STORY OF A SURVIVOR.

SO, FOR SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO LEAVE, AND BE SUCCESSFUL, AND FIND LOVE, I'VE BEEN MARRIED TO MY HUSBAND FOR 23 YEARS, AND TRULY, THAT HAS BEEN SO POWERFUL, BECAUSE AS A VICTIM, NOT ONLY DO YOU STRUGGLE WITH LOVING YOURSELF, BUT YOU WONDER, AM I ABLE TO LOVE?

AM I EVER ABLE TO TRUST?

AND SO, I'VE BEEN ON THIS JOURNEY OF WORKING AND ADVOCATING, ESPECIALLY WORKING WITH TEENAGERS.

>> THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT TO MAKE, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO, I ASSUME, WANT TO THINK THAT THE ONLY STORY IS THE STORY OF A VICTIM.

WERE YOU BELIEVED, APRIL, WHEN YOU STARTED TO TRY TO GET ACCOUNTABILITY?

>> WELL, WHEN I WAS BEING ABUSED, I WAS A TEENAGER, AND SO I DIDN'T DARE SHARE MY STORY.

NO ONE KNEW ABOUT MY ABUSE.

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE.

NOT EVEN MY PARENTS.

AND SO, IT TOOK ME ABOUT TEN YEARS TO FIND THE COURAGE TO FINALLY SHARE MY STORY, AND ONCE I STARTED DOING THAT, I WAS ABLE TO RECEIVE SO MUCH HELP, REALLY IN UNDERSTANDING HOW I WAS ABLE TO FALL INTO THAT KIND OF SITUATION, SO THE SUPPORT I WAS ABLE TO BECOME EDUCATED, NOW I'M A FACILITATOR AND I GIVE WORKSHOPS, AND REALLY WORKING WITH POWERFUL AND AMAZING ORGANIZATIONS IN NEW YORK CITY, BECAUSE EDUCATION WAS KEY.

AND EDUCATION AND AWARENESS IS -- AND PREVENTION, IT REALLY IS A WAY TO -- TO DO OUR BEST TO PREVENT FROM DV TO CONTINUE HAPPENING.

>> GLORIA ALLRED, FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, APRIL'S MAKING THE LEGITIMATE POINT THAT IT'S EDUCATION, AWARENESS, YOU KNOW, TAKE THE VICTIM SERIOUSLY.

WE THOUGHT MAYBE THAT SINCE ME TOO, SINCE HARVEY WEINSTEIN WAS CONVICTED AND, YOU KNOW, SENT TO JAIL, SINCE SO MANY -- SO MUCH ACCOUNTABILITY WAS HAD AFTER ME TOO, THAT SOMEHOW THIS PLAYING FIELD, IF YOU LIKE, HAD BEEN LEVELED.

AT LEAST STARTING TO BE LEVELED.

DO YOU SEE THAT IN THE COURT SYSTEM, IN YOUR PRACTICE?

>> WELL, I'M STILL DEALING WITH MANY, MANY VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

AND ONE OF THE KEY QUESTIONS IS, WHY DON'T WOMEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

WHY DO THEY CONTINUE TO BE VICTIMIZED?

WELL, OFTEN, THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR RIGHTS, CHRISTIANE.

AND WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IS NOT BE ISOLATED, WHICH IS WHAT ALMOST EVERY BATTERER WANTS.

SEPARATE THE VICTIM FROM HER FAMILY AND FRIENDS, SUPPORT GROUPS, AND ISOLATE THEM.

AND MAKE THEM DEPENDENT ON THE BATTERER.

BUT REACH OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, TO AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR AREA WHO HELPS VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE.

AND LEARN YOUR RIGHTS.

BECAUSE YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT JUST IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR THAT VICTIMS HAVE, FEAR OF GOING TO THE POLICE, FEAR OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, FEAR THAT THE BATTERER WILL RETALIATE AGAINST THEM IF THEY DO SOMETHING.

BUT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS NOT THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT CAN HELP.

THE CIVIL JUSTICE SYSTEM, GOING TO A CIVIL ATTORNEY, YOU KNOW, DOING, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT CASSIE VENTURA DID, WHEN CH ICH WAS FI LAWSUIT, AND GET A RESULT.

SOMETIMES RIGHT AWAY, SOMETIMES IT TAKES A LOT LONGER.

OR TO DO A CONFIDENTIAL SETTLEMENT WITH THE BATTERER WITHOUT A LAWSUIT.

WE DO THEM ALL THE TIME.

I DID ONE YESTERDAY.

SO, THE POINT IS, THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS THAT VICTIMS ARE NOT AWARE OF, AND THIS CAN BE A TEACHING MOMENT FOR THE BATTERER.

THAT HE LITERALLY HAS TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS WRONGDOING, OF HIS CRIMINAL ACTS, AND SOMETIMES IT'S CIVIL AND CRIMINAL, SOMETIMES IT'S JUST CIVIL, SOMETIMES IT'S JUST CRIMINAL.

BUT REACH OUT, FIND OUT WHAT YOU CAN DO, AND BECOME 'EM POWERED IN THAT JOURNEY.

AND AS SOME OF YOUR GUESTS SAID, WHEN THEY FINALLY GET SUPPORT GROUPS, THAT IS A MOMENT WHERE THEY START TO BE EMPOWERED, TO BE STRONGER, AND TO WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, AND TO MOVE ON WITH THEIR LIVES, AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THESE VICTIMS, THAT THEY ARE SHARING THEIR STORIES, AND REACHING OUT AND HELPING OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED, AS WELL.

>> AND LEJLA, YOU TALKED ABOUT GOING FROM VICTIM TO ADVOCATE, BUT YOU DID FIND THIS COMMUNITY ON SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT YOU ALSO, I BELIEVE YOU CAME HERE AS A REFUGEE FROM KOSOVO IN THE MIDST OF WAR AND ETHNIC CLEANSING, I WAS THERE, STUDIED IT, COVERED IT, ET CETERA.

MY QUESTION, THOUGH, IS, HERE IN THE UK, AS A REFUGEE, DID YOU FIND IT MORE DIFFICULT OR WAS IT THE SAME AS FOR ANY OTHER WOMAN?

DID YOU FIND YOURSELF EVEN MORE ISOLATED FROM THE LEGAL SYSTEM, FROM CIVIL SOCIETY HERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I REALLY DID.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH GROWING UP AS A TEENAGER, NOT FEELING LIKE YOU FIT IN, YOU'RE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR FRIENDS.

I CAME TO THE UK IN THE MID '90s, WHEN THERE REALLY WASN'T THAT MUCH EDUCATION AROUND ETHNIC CLEANSING AND GENOCIDE AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE BALKANS AT THE TIME.

THERE WASN'T REALLY A LOT OF UNDERSTANDING WHY WE WERE EVEN HERE AS ASYLUM SEEKERS.

SO, IT WAS TO THE POINT, WHEN I WAS IN A RELATIONSHIP, I DIDN'T QUITE KNOW -- WHEN I IDENTIFIED MYSELF AS A VICTIM, BECAUSE FOR A LONG TIME, JUST LIKE THE OTHER GUEST HAS SAID, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS A VICTIM, AND I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHERE TO TURN TO FOR HELP, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHO COULD HELP ME IN MY CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> I JUST WANT TO READ, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF STATS.

WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THEY'RE REALLY AWFUL.

APRIL, EACH YEAR, OVER 12 MILLION WOMEN AND MEN ARE VICTIMS OF INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE, THIS IS THE NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE.

35% OF WOMEN WORLDWIDE HAVE EXPERIENCED EITHER PHYSICAL AND/OR SEXUAL INTIMATE VIOLENCE, OR NONPARTNER SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

I KNOW YOU ARE NOT NECESSARILY IN THESE INDUSTRIES THAT I'M ABOUT TO TALK ABOUT, BUT IN MOVIES, IN MUSIC, IN CERTAIN PLACES WHERE POTENTIALLY SOME MEN FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ENTITLED TO DO WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, THE OLD ADAGE, SEX, DRUGS, AND ROCK 'N' ROLL, IS IT MORE DIFFICULT, DO YOU THINK, IN THESE SORT OF CASES, THAN IN OTHERS?

OR IS IT ALL EQUALLY TROU TROUBLESOME?

>> I WOULD SAY IT'S EQUALLY TROUBLESOME, WHETHER YOU ABUSE, IT'S NOT RACIST, IT IS NOT PREJUDICE, IT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR STATUS, YOUR FINANCIAL STATUS, IT JUST WANTS TO DESTROY YOU.

AND REALLY, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE, IT CAN EFFECT ANYONE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP WITH A MOTHER AND A FATHER WHO LOVED ON ME, WHO SET THE FOUNDATION FOR ME.

MY MOTHER TOLD ME THAT MY VOICE WAS POWERFUL, MY FATHER WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, A MAN SHOULD LOVE YOU AND UPLIFT YOU, AND YET, I FOUND MYSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE I WAS FIGHTING FOR MY LIFE IN SILENCE.

AND I'M SO HAPPY THAT I MADE IT OUT, AND MY FATHER IS MY HERO, AND I -- I NEVER FORGOT MY FATHER'S VOICE, AND IT REALLY GAVE ME THE STRENGTH AND I SAID A PROMISE WHEN I, YOU KNOW, SURVIVED AND I LEFT, I SAID, I WILL SPEAK TO WHOMEVER, I WILL USE MY VOICE, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT ABUSE DOES, IT SILENCES YOUR VOICE.

AND THERE ARE SO MANY WOMEN, MEN, AND CHILDREN, WHO ARE WATCHING THIS, AND I JUST WANT THEM TSH -- I WANT THEM TO KNOW THEY ARE NOT ALONE, AND YOUR VOICE MATTERS, AND YOU MATTER.

>> AND YOU VERY BRAVELY, YOU KNOW, ARE TALKING PUBLICLY, AND YOU HAVE BEEN.

TELL ME, FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S AWARENESS, AND FOR OUR AWARENESS, WHAT DID YOUR FATHER DO FOR YOU, WHAT DID HE SAY?

YOU SAY YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, WHEN YOU TOLD HIM?

AND HOW DID HE SUPPORT YOU?

>> OH, IT WAS A BEAUTIFUL MOMENT.

IT WAS OBVIOUSLY TEN YEARS LATER, AND I SAID, WELL, BEFORE I SHARE MY STORY WITH THE WORLD, I THINK I SHOULD SHARE IT WITH MY FATHER, AND WE HAD THIS BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTER-FATHER MOMENT, AND WE CRIED TOGETHER.

AND HE FELT BROKEN, HE FELT SO SAD, BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING ALL AROUND HIM AND HE HAD NO CLUE.

AND I NEVER BLAMED HIM.

HONESTLY, AS A TEENAGER, AS A YOUNG DAUGHTER WHO WAS A DADDY'S GIRL, I WANTED TO PROTECT MY FATHER, BECAUSE I KNEW IF MY FATHER WOULD HAVE REACTED, HE WOULD HAVE ENDED UP PROBABLY IN JAIL, BECAUSE HE'S TRYING TO PROTECT ME.

BUT IT WAS SUCH A TENDER MOMENT, AND ONCE AGAIN, IF IT WASN'T FOR HIM AND HIS SUPPORT NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD HAVE BEEN HERE, AND WITHOUT MY HUSBAND, ONCE AGAIN, AND ALSO, JUST ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE WORK.

>> I JUST WANT TO TURN, FINALLY TO YOU, LEJLA, BECAUSE THE PRIME MINISTER ANNOUNCED A NEW ELECTION.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLAINTS THAT IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, THE INSTITUTIONS, THE STRUCTURES, ARE NOT THERE FOR THE KIND OF ISSUES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

DO YOU THINK AN ELECTION MIGHT EVEN MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

DO YOU -- WOMEN, THE GROUPS, I MEAN, ARE THERE PARTICULAR PEOPLE RUNNING FOR ELECTION THAT YOU THINK COULD HELP OR COULD EMPOWER?

>> IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, NO, VIOLENCE IS SYSTEMIC, IT'S HAPPENED FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, IT'S ENABLED BY THE PATE YARD CAN I.

DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS ELECTION WILL MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE.

SADLY, AND UNFORTUNATELY.

>> VERY QUICKLY, TO YOU, GLORIA, BECAUSE WE ARE AT THE END, I JUST WONDERED IF YOU HAD A DIFFERENT VIEW, IF SOME KIND OF VOTING CAN HELP?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BY THE WAY, ONE THING THAT IS COMMON TO ALL OF THESE SITUATIONS IS A POWER IMBALANCE.

WHERE THE VICTIM DOES NOT FEEL THAT SHE HAS THE POWER, WHETHER IT'S IN THE WORKPLACE, WHETHER IT'S IN SPORTS, BUSINESS, ENTERTAINMENT, RELIGION, THAT SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER THAT THE BATTERER DOES.

SO, WE HAVE TO EMPOWER HER.

AND THAT'S IMPORTANT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH WOMEN IN OFFICE -- >> YEAH.

>> TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS BECOMES A PRIORITY, ELIMINATING, PREVENTING, AND IMPOSING CONSEQUENCES FOR THE BATTERERS WHO COMMIT AND INFLICT THESE INJUSTICES AGAINST WOMEN.

WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE WOMEN JUDGES AND MORE WOMEN BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, AGENCIES.

UNTIL WE HAVE AN EQUAL STRUCTURE INVOLVING WOMEN AND MEN AND THOSE WHO ARE ALSO DIVERSE IN MANY WAYS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO END VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY TRUE EQUAL PARTNERSHIPS BETWEEN WOMEN AND MEN.

>> AND I CAN SEE OUR WONDERFUL PANEL NODDING AT THAT.

LEJLA, GLORIA, APRIL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, IND DEDEED FOR BEING W US.

REALLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

>>> AS WE JUST HEARD, BLACK VICTIMS IN THE UNITED STATES ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE BELIEVED, AND SADLY, THIS RACISM PREVAILS ACROSS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM.

SO, AISHA BELISO-DE JESUS' NEW BOOK "EXCITED DLEER YUM" EXPLORES THE MEDICAL TERM THAT HAS LONG BEEN USED AS A SCAPEGOAT FOR POLICE MISCONDUCT, LIKE IN THE GEORGE FLOYD CASE, WHOSE MURDER BY POLICE FOUR YEARS AGO THIS WEEKEND SPARKED OUTRAGE.

THE AUTHOR AND ACADEMIC SPEAKS TO MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT HOW LEGISLATORS ARE NOW DEALING WITH THIS INVENTED DISEASE.

>> PROFESSOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU'VE WRITTEN A NEW BOOK ABOUT "EXCITED DELIRIUM."

I WOULD SAY, I THINK MOST OF US WHO FOLLOW THE NEWS ONLY HEARD ABOUT THIS TERM IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.

SO -- SO WHAT IS EXCITED DELIRIUM, AND WHO COINED THIS TERM?

>> I THINK IT WAS, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY QUITE STARTLING TO ME TO HAVE BEEN DOING RESEARCH ON POLICING, WITH POLICE OFFICERS SINCE 2013, AND, YOU KNOW, HAD NEVER HEARD OF THE TERM UNTIL AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH.

SO, EXCITED DELIRIUM IS WHAT MANY WOULD CONSIDER NOW TO BE A MISAPPROPRIATED DIAGNOSIS.

IT WAS COINED WHILE STUDYING COCAINE AND AFRO-CUBANS IN THE 1980s AND '90s, AND THE TERM ACTUALLY STARTED AS COCAINE AGITATED DELIRIUM, AND IT SWITCHED TO EXCITED DELIRIUM SYNDROME IN THE '90s WHEN THEY TRIED TO OPEN UP THE TERM AND MAKE IT MORE APPLICABLE TO -- BEYOND COCAINE USAGE.

BASICALL BASICALLY, WHAT THE TERM ARGUES IS THAT WITH JUST A SMALL AMOUNT OF COCAINE USAGE, PEOPLE BECOME AGGRESSIVE, EXCITED, SWEATING, AGITATED, AND ARE DESCRIBED AS SUDDENLY DYING.

AND IN THIS CASE, POLICE OFFICERS WHO ARE CALLED TO THE SCENE ARE SEEN AS SORT OF INNOCENT BYSTANDERS OF, OR JUST HAPPENED TO WITNESS EXCITED DELIRIUM.

IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED AS SIMILAR TO SIDS, OR SUDDEN INFANT DEATH SYNDROME IN THE SENSE THAT YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY AUTOPSY.

THERE'S NO WAY TO DIAGNOSE EXCITED DELIRIUM, EXCEPT BY WHAT IS TOLD, WHAT PEOPLE DID ON THE SCENE.

AND SO, IN MANY CASES THIS IS THE POLICE WHO DESCRIBE HOW PEOPLE ARE BEHAVING.

AND, OF COURSE, EXCITED DELIRIUM SYNDROME HAS SORT OF GONE UNDER THE RADAR, IN MANY WAYS, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN USED BY MET CALL EXAMINERS, AND SO, CHARLES WETLEY, HE ACTUALLY USED IT AS A RACIAL ARGUMENT.

HE MADE THE ARGUMENT THAT BLACK PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR HAD A SPECIAL GENETIC FLAW TO SPONTANEOUSLY DIE ON SMALL DOSES OF COCAINE.

>> OKAY.

SO -- SO, AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF -- THOSE OF US WHO LIVE IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC HEARD ABOUT THIS TERM, BECAUSE IT WAS, IN FACT, CITED IN DEREK CHAUVIN'S LEGAL DEFENSE.

THIS, OF COURSE, IS ONE OF THE FOUR OFFICERS, HE WAS THE ONE MOST HEAVILY IMPLICATED IN THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.

DURING HIS TRIAL, A MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER WHO TRAINED OTHERS IN MEDICAL CARE TESTIFIED THAT RECOGNIZING SIGNS OF EXCITED DELIRIUM IS PART OF THE TRAINING FOR NEW OFFICERS, BUT YOU'RE REPORTING INDICATES THAT THIS IS MADE UP.

THIS IS -- THIS DOESN'T EVEN EXIST.

SO, TELL MEL HOW YOU CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION.

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT SIMILAR TO GEORGE FLOYD, THE MAJORITY IN ALMOST ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN LABELED EXCITED DELIRIUM SYNDROME, ARE ACTUALLY KILLED DURING POLICE INTERACTIONS, RIGHT?

THEY ALMOST ALWAYS INVOLVE SOME TYPE OF POLICE USE OF FORCE.

FORCE SUCH AS HOG TYING PEOPLE, APPLYING KNEELING ON PEOPLE'S BODIES, AS WE SAW WITH GEORGE FLOYD, TASING PEOPLE, INJECTING THEM WITH SEDATIVES, AS WE SAW WITH ELIJAH McCLAIN, RIGHT, AND SO, FORCEFUL RESTRAINT IS ACTUALLY KEY TO EXCITED DELIRIUM SYNDROME, HOWEVER, THE SYNDROME HAS BEEN USED, AND WHAT I ARGUE IN THE BOOK, AND ALSO, I THINK, WHAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE COME TO REALIZE, IS THAT IT IS AN EXCUSE, OR, A COVERUP, A MEDICALIZATION OF POLICE VIOLENCE.

SO, IT'S REALLY CRUCIAL TO THINK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE USE OF FORCEFUL RESTRAINTS, RIGHT, AND THE WAYS THAT THESE DEATHS ARE THEN LABELED AFTER THE FACT.

>> EXCITED DELIRIUM HAS BEEN LISTED AS A FACTOR IN AUTOPSY REPORTS, COURT RECORDS, OR OTHER SOURCES IN AT LEAST 276 DEATHS THAT FOLLOWED TASER USE SINCE THE YEAR 2000.

THIS IS FROM A REPORT IN REUTERS IN 2017.

SO, WHEN TASERS GOT INTRODUCED, THIS BECAME ONE OF THE SORT OF THE ARGUMENTS.

AND, SO, THIS -- LET'S GO BACK TO CHARLES WETLEY, IT STARTED WITH HIM.

WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND AND WHY YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS RELEVANT TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS?

>> SO, WHEN I STARTED DELVING INTO THE HISTORY OF EXCITED DELIRIUM SYNDROME, I BECAME EXTREMELY ENGROSSED IN HOW CHARLES WETLEY CAME TO DEFINE THE SYNDROME.

THE FIRST PRECEDENT THAT HE USED WAS THE IDEA THAT SOMEHOW BLACK PEOPLE HAVE A SPECIAL SORT OF GENETIC FLAW THAT CREATES THEM TO GO CRAZY, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S, LIKE, THE TERM THAT'S BEING USED.

AND HE CITES LITERATURE, ACTUALLY, FROM JIM CROW SEGREGATION DOCTORS, WHO WERE ARGUING FOR THE CRIMINALIZATION OF COCAINE IN THE EARLY 1900s, TO JUSTIFY THE ABUSE AND THE LYNCHING OF BLACK MEN IN THE SOUTH.

SO, THE FIRST SORT OF PRECEDENT THAT HE USES IS THIS -- IS T THIS -- IS THIS MEDICAL DOCTOR, THIS NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE BY DR. EDWARD WILLIAMS, WHO DESCRIBES AND WARNS THAT SO-CALLED NEGRO COCAINE FIENDS ARE RUNNING AROUND IN THE SOUTH.

HE STARTS THIS IN THE 1980s WHEN 12 BLACK WOMEN ARE FOUND TO BE BRUTALLY RAPED AND STRANGLED TO DEATH IN MIAMI.

AND WETLEY SAYS THAT HE NOTICES A PATTERN OF THESE BLACK WOMEN'S DEATHS, WHICH HE ARGUES IS A -- NOT DUE TO MURDER, ACTUALLY, BUT HE CLAIMS DUE TO, QUOTE, SEX AND COCAINE DEATHS, SO, HE CALLS THEM A SPONTANEOUS REACTION TO SMALL AMOUNTS OF COCAINE.

AND HE ACTUALLY DESCRIBES BLACK PEOPLE AS THE BLACK SPECIES, IN HIS MEDICAL WRITINGS.

AND HE LABELS THESE 12 WOMEN'S DEATHS AS -- AS SEX AND COCAINE DEATHS, AS ACCIDENTS.

WHAT HAPPENS IS, A BLACK GIRL BY THE NAME OF ANTOINETTE BURNS, WAS FOUND RAPED AND MURDERED, WITHOUT COCAINE IN HER SYSTEM.

AND THIS CAUSES POLICE AND THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE, ACTUALLY CHARLES WETLEY'S BOSS AT THE TIME, JOSEPH-DAY VICE, TO REINVESTIGATE, AND IT FINDS THAT THE WOMEN WHO HAD ALL BEEN LABELED BY WETLEY SEX AND C COCAINE DEATHS, WERE ACTUALLY MURDERED AND ASPHYXIATED SO, THIS CAUSES A STIR IN MIAMI, BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THAT THEY LIKELY HAD A SERIAL KILLER THAT WAS MURDERING AND TARGETING BLACK WOMEN.

>> BUT SOMEHOW, THIS DID NOT TERMINATE THIS IDEA OF EXCITED DELIRIUM.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S TAKEN SO LONG FOR PEOPLE TO QUESTION THIS DIAGNOSIS?

>> WE THINK OF MEDICALIZATION OF POLICE VIOLENCE, WE THINK ABOUT HOW SOMETHING GETS LABELED A MEDICAL TERM IN THE FIRST PLACE, RIGHT?

SO, MEDICAL EXAMINERS WERE USING THE TERM, AND WERE LABELLING THESE DEATHS ACCIDENTS, OR UNCLASSIFIED, AND SO, FOR MANY YEARS, A LOT OF THE EXCITED DELIRIUM DEATHS, OR LABELED EXCITED DELIRIUM, WERE ACTUALLY NOT GIVEN ANY ANSWERS, AND BECAUSE THEIR DEATHS WERE LABELED ACCIDENTS, BECAUSE THESE DEATHS WERE UNCLASSIFIED, NOT ONLY WAS NO ONE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, BUT IT JUST LOOKED LIKE A MEDICAL INCIDENT, RIGHT?

AND WE SAW THAT WITH GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, WHEN INITIALLY, THE POLICE PLACED ON THEIR WEBSITE A NOTICE SAYING THAT A MAN DIES IN MEDICAL DISTRESS, REEGT?

AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR DARNELLA FRAZIER WHO ACTUALLY POSTED THE BYSTANDER VIDEO THAT SHOWED DEREK CHAUVIN, YOU KNOW, KNEELING ON GEORGE FLOYD'S NECK, THE WORLD BOULWOULD NOT HAVE KN THAT THIS WAS NOT ANOTHER CASE OF A SO-CALLED MEDICAL DISTRESS.

AND I THINK BECAUSE IT'S GONE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF UNDER THE RADAR FOR SO MANY YEARS, BECAUSE IN MANY WAYS, IT'S KIND OF -- IT CAN BE SEEN AS A SORT OF PERFECT COVERUP FOR POLICE VIOLENCE, AND WHAT IT ALSO REVEALS TO US IS HOW MEDICAL EXAMINERS, AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, PARAMEDICS, RIGHT, PARTICIPATE IN -- IN POLICE VIOLENCE IN WAYS THAT WE REALLY CAN'T UNCOVER UNTIL WE START TO REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THESE STRUCTURES WORK.

>> A 2021 STUDY PUBLISHED IN THE VIRGINIA LAW REVIEW FOUND THAT OF 166 REPORTED DEATHS IN POLICE CUSTODY FROM POSSIBLE EXCITED DELIRIUM, BLACK PEOPLE MADE UP 43.3% OF CASES, AND BLACK AND LATINO PEOPLE TOGETHER MADE UP AT LEAST 56%, AND FOR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, AREN'T AWARE THAT IS FAR BEYOND, YOU KNOW, THE PRESENCE OF BLACK AND LATINO PEOPLE IN THE POPULATION ON THE WHOLE.

SO, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THOSE NUMBERS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT SAYS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE OTHER SORT OF REASON WHY EXCITED DELIRIUM HAS SORT OF OPERATED UNDER THE RADAR FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IS BECAUSE IT DOES ALLOW US TO SORT OF JUSTIFY AND BLAME THE VICTIMS FOR POLICE VIOLENCE.

THERE'S ALREADY A LONG HISTORY OF RACIALIZING, RIGHT, AND MEDICALIZING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND UNIT LOSING UTILIZING THESE SORT OF TERMS, THESE FEARS, RIGHT, OF DANGEROUS BLACK AND LATINO MEN THAT ARE GOING TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, CAUSE HAVOC AND BE THREATENING.

AS AN EASY SORT OF SCAPEGOAT TO THEN COVER UP THIS KIND OF VIOLENCE.

AND I THINK THAT THESE IDEAS ARE THEN ENTRENCHED IN MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS.

AND THIS ACTUALLY GOES BACK TO A LONGER HISTORY, EVEN FROM SLAVERY, RIGHT, SO, FOR INSTANCE, IN SLAVERY, THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, A HOST OF MEDICAL TERMS THAT SIMILARLY RACIALIZED, RIGHT, BLACK PEOPLE, AS DANGEROUS OR THREATENING OR VIO VIOLENT, RIGHT?

WE SAW IT, YOU KNOW, DR. SAMUEL CARTWRIGHT IN ARGUING FOR THE IDEA THAT RUNAWAY SLAVES HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS, THAT WERE SORT OF CRAZY AND UNHINGED, A KIND OF MANIA.

AND HE ADVOCATED FOR AMPUTATING TOES.

AND I THINK IT IS CRUCIAL TO RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN WETLEY'S PRECEDENT IS THE LYNCHING NARRATIVES FROM THE SOUTH, THAT ARGUE THAT BLACK MEN NEEDED TO BE SUBDUED BY MORE HEAVILY ARMING POLICE OFFICERS, THAT THERE'S A SORT OF LONG HISTORY CONNECTING THESE LINKS BETWEEN MEDICAL DOCTORS AND POLICE VIOLENCE.

>> SO, THIS -- THE DATA THAT WE JUST CITED, THIS STUDY, WAS INCLUDED IN A PHYSICIAN'S FOR HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT THAT CONCLUDED THE TERM EXCITED DELIRIUM CAN'T BE DISENTANGLED FROM ITS RACIST AND UNSCIENTIFIC ORIGINS, I'M QUOTING HERE, AND IT PROVED THAT EXCITED DELIRIUM IS NOT A VALID DIE KNOW SIS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND SO, NOW THAT, THROUGH YOUR WORK, THROUGH WORK OF OTHER RESEARCHERS, THIS KIND OF HISTORY HAS BEEN SORT OF SURFACED, WHERE ARE WE NOW?

IS THERE A WILLINGNESS, IS THERE A WILL, TO LOOK AT THIS IN A NEW LIGHT?

>> SO, I THINK THERE IS.

YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY SINCE GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER, WE SEE THE, YOU KNOW, REEXAMINATION OF THE TERM, AND RECENTLY, THERE HAS BEEN INCREASED PRESSURE TO NOT ONLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT EXCITED DELIRIUM IS NOT AN ACTUAL MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS, BUT ALSO, TO E LLIMINATE THE USE OF THE TERM AND ALSO BAN ITS USE IN TRAINING DOCUMENTS.

AND SO, JUST RECENTLY, OCTOBER 2023, CALIFORNIA BECAME THE FIRST STATE TO BAN ITS USE AS A CAUSE OF DEATH.

AND THEN, WE ALSO SEE COLORADO, RECENTLY, I THINK JUST LAST MONTH, STRUCK DOWN EXCITED DELIRIUM FROM ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING DOCUMENTS.

AND THEN WE HAVE OTHER MOVEMENTS GOING ON, FLORIDA, IN NEW YORK, AND SO ON.

AND SO, I THINK THERE IS -- THERE IS A RECOGNITION, RIGHT, THAT -- THAT THE DIAGNOSIS ITSELF IS FABRICATED.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THIS DIAGNOSIS WAS ACTUALLY NEVER TRULY RECOGNIZED.

SO, IT WAS NOT CLASSIFIED IN THE DIAGNOSTIC AND STATISTICAL MANUAL OF MENTAL HEALTH DISORDERS OR EVEN IN THE INTERNATIONAL CLASSIFICATION OF DISEASES.

IT WAS NEVER RECOGNIZED BY THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, THE AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION, OR EVEN THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION.

AND IT'S REALLY -- UP UNTIL JUST LAST YEAR, IT WAS ONLY RECOGNIZED BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS, WHICH ALLOWED FOR IT TO BE USED AS A CAUSE OF DEATH, AND SO, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN THAT ASSOCIATION FINALLY REJECTED EXCITED DELIRIUM SYNDROME.

AND SO, IN THE WAKE OF GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, AND, YOU KNOW, THE PROTESTS THAT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, REALLY CALLED TO ATTENTION A KIND OF HISTORIC RECKONING IN THE WORLD, WE SEE THIS IMPORTANT THINGS HAPPENING, BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.

ESPECIALLY THE MEDICALIZATION OF POLICE VIOLENCE DOES CONTINUE, EVEN WITHOUT THE USE OF THE TERM.

>> AND WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

>> SO, IN 2023, YOU MIGHT RECALL THE DEATH OF KEENAN ANDERSON, WHO WAS TASED MULTIPLE TIMES, RIGHT, AND ACTUALLY WHILE THE POLICE DETAINED HIM, HE YELLED TO PEOPLE, SAID, THEY'RE GOING TO GEORGE FLOYD ME.

AND HOWEVER, ANDERSON'S DEATH WAS DESCRIBED BY THE CORONER AS HEART FAILURE AND COCAINE, WHICH, IN ESSENCE, IS EXCITED DELIRIUM WITHOUT THE TERM, RIGHT?

AND THEN, JUST THIS PAST APRIL, WE CAN SEE FRANK TYSON WAS ALSO AS ASPHYXIATED, SIMILAR TO GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, AND TYSON'S FAMILY MEMBERS AND ATTORNEYS HAVE DESCRIBED HIM AS SORT OF A GEORGE FLOYD 2.0.

HE WAS SUBDUED, HANDCUFFED, AND COMPLAINING OF BEING ABLE TO BREATHE.

SO, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE ONGOING AWARENESS AROUND NOT JUST THE TERM, WHICH I THINK IS APPALLING AND POINTS TO THE RACIST HISTORY, BUT ALSO THE ONGOING WAYS IN WHICH THIS HAPPENS.

>> IS THERE ANYTHING THAT GIVES YOU HOPE THAT THE KIND OF CYCLE OF MISINFORMATION, MADE-UP JUNK SCIENCE, AND KIND OF RACIALIZED, YOU KNOW, VIOLENCE IN POLICING, CAN BE INTERVENED IN?

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT GIVES YOU HOPE THAT THIS CAN CHANGE?

>> I DO HAVE HOPE, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, WE SAW PEOPLE FROM ACROSS THE WORLD, REALLY, I MEAN, IN THE UNITED STATES, ESPECIALLY, BUT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TOOK TO THE STREETS TO REALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE VIOLENCE THAT OUR SOCIETY HAS ENDANGERED.

THERE HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT, RIGHT?

BEFORE GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, PEOPLE COULDN'T EVEN IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITY OF, YOU KNOW, REDISTRIBUTING RESOURCES FROM THE POLICE TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, OTHER KINDS OF PROGRAMS, EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS, MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS, RIGHT?

AND THAT HAPPENED, RIGHT?

WE SAW A MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE REALLY DEMANDING, CALLING TOWARDS A SHIFT IN OUR SOCIETY, AND WE SAW RESOURCES BEING DIVERTED, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO REMEMBER GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, AND REMEMBER WHAT -- WHAT THAT CALL TO -- TO CHANGE OUR SOCIETY REALLY DID.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN ONE SWIFT MOVE, BUT I THINK SLOWLY BRINGING THESE TO OUR ATTENTION AND CREATING NEW INSTITUTIONS, OR SHIFTING OUR INSTITUTIONS TOWARDS HEALING AND CARING AND HEALTH CARE AND TRAINING, CAN ACTUALLY DO A LOT OF WORK, AND IT HAS DONE A LOT OF WORK.

AND SO, I AM HOPEFUL, EVEN AS I KNOW THERE'S ONGOING RESEARCH THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

>> PROFESSOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, IMAGINING GREATNESS FOR AMERICA.

60 YEARS AGO TODAY, PRESIDENT LYNDON B. JOHNSON DELIVERED HIS HISTORIC GREAT SOCIETY SPEECH, LAYING OUT THE BIGGEST EXPANSION OF THE WELFARE STATE SINCE ROOSEVELT'S NEW DEAL.

THE PRIMARY GOALS WERE ELIMINATING RACIAL INEQUALITY AND ENDING POVERTY.

>> WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE NOT ONLY TOWARD THE RICH SOCIETY, AND THE POWERFUL SOCIETY, BUT UPWARD TO THE GREAT SOCIETY.

>> 60 YEARS LATER, THOUGH MANY STRIDES HAVE BEEN MADE, MANY AMERICANS MAY STILL BE ASKING, DO WE OR DO WE NOT HAVE A GREAT SOCIETY?

>>> AND SPEAKING OF ALL THINGS GREAT, HOW ABOUT SOME OF THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME?

MATTEL HAS ANNOUNCED THAT ITS LATEST RANGE OF BARBIES ALL HONORING SOME OF THE GREATEST FEMALE ATHLETES OF OUR TIME.

AMONG THOSE BEING IMMORTALIZED IN 11 1/2 INCHES ARE TENNIS CHAMPION VENUS WILLIAMS AND EIGHT OTHERS ACROSS GYMNASTICS, AND FIELD, AND PARALYMPICS.

AND I CAN'T THINK OF A GREATER WAY TO END THIS SHOW.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.