Will Trump’s Guilty Verdict Hurt Him With Women Voters? Expert Weighs In

>>> AND NOW, WE RETURN TO THE U.S. PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

AND A QUESTION OF MINDS OF MANY PEOPLE THESE DAYS, HOW WILL DONALD TRUMP'S RECENT CONVICTION INFLUENCE WOMEN IN THE POLLING BOOTH?

DEBBIE WALSH IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN WOMEN IN POLITICS AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY, AND SHE SPOKE WITH MICHEL MARTIN ON THIS AND WHAT ENERGIZES WOMEN TO GO OUT AND VOTE.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

DEBBIE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> YOU SPENT A LONG TIME STUDYING HOW WOMEN VOTE, HOW THEY RUN FOR OFFICE, BASICALLY HOW THEY FUNCTION SORT OF IN PUBLIC LIFE.

AS DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN WOMEN IN POLITICS AT RUTGERS.

I AM CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR REACTION, WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS CONVICTED OF A FELONY.

>> I THINK MY BIG TAKEAWAY FROM THIS IS THAT THIS WAS NOT A SURPRISE IN HIS BEHAVIOR, IT WAS -- THIS WAS NOT OUT OF CHARACTER FOR WHO HE HAS BEEN.

SO, THE BEHAVIOR WASN'T SHOCKING.

I THINK -- I WAS A LITTLE AMAZED THAT THEY MANAGED TO GET UNANIMITY ON ALL 34 COUNTS.

AND I'M VERY CURIOUS TO SEE, AND I'VE BEEN VERY CURIOUS WATCHING SINCE THEN, HOW THIS PLAYS OUT AND HOW THE PUBLIC IS REACTING TO ALL OF THIS.

>> BASED ON YOUR READ OF THE DATA AND BASED ON YOUR KIND OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT, DO YOU THINK THIS CURRENT EVENT, THIS LATEST EVENT WILL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON HOW WOMEN VOTERS PERCEIVE HIM?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IN SOME WAYS IS THE $64,000 QUESTION.

I THINK FOR A LOT OF US, AFTER THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE, WE THOUGHT, WELL, THIS IS NOT -- THIS IS GOING TO CLINCH THE ELECTION OF HILLARY CLINTON.

BUT WE DID SEE THAT THOSE FOLKS THAT ARE DEVOTED TO HIM WERE WILLING TO LET THAT GO.

NOW, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WOMEN VOTERS ARE NOT MONOLITHIC.

THERE ARE WOMEN WHO ARE COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMEN AND WOMEN WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE, THERE ARE WOMEN, YOU BREAK DOWN THE WOMEN'S VOTE BY DEMOGRAPHICS AND YOU GET SOME VERY DIFFERENT OUTCOMES.

SO, TO -- THERE'S SORT OF NOT THAT SWEEPING NOTION OF HOW WILL WOMEN VOTE, BUT I THINK FOR THE WOMEN WHO ARE SOLIDLY IN HIS CAMP, THE MAGA WOMEN, I DON'T THINK THIS WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON HOW THEY FEEL.

I THINK THAT IN SOME WAYS, IT MAY EVEN SOLIDIFY HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT HIM.

I THINK THAT FOR SOME OF THOSE MORE MARGINAL WOMEN VOTERS WHO HAVE SUPPORTED HIM, PARTICULARLY THE FIRST TIME AROUND, THEY HAVE BECOME WHAT I THINK OF IN SOME WAYS AS SWING VOTERS, THAT THEY COULD WALK AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP, THAT THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT HAVE COME OUT OF THIS -- OF HIS TIME IN THE PRESIDENCY, PARTICULARLY AROUND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ISSUES.

AND THIS JUST MAY BE A REMINDER OF WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU GET A DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

AND IT MAY BE MORE THAN THEY CAN HANDLE, AND THEY MAY TURN AWAY, NOW, WILL THEY VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN, I DON'T KNOW.

THEY MAY JUST NOT BE ENGAGED, THEY MAY DISENGAGE FROM THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

>> THIS VERDICT COMES AFTER A DIFFERENT JURY FOUND DONALD TRUMP LIABLE FOR SEXUALLY ABUSING THE ADVICE COLUMNIST E. JEAN CARROLL.

OF COURSE, THIS HAPPENED BEFORE HE WAS A CANDIDATE, BUT THE TESTIMONY ITSELF WAS VERY SORT OF DISTURBING.

SHE WAS AWARDED, YOU KNOW, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AS A JUDGMENT.

SO, I GUESS THE REASON I RAISE THAT IS THAT THIS COMES AFTER THAT, AND I JUST SORT OF WONDER THE POLITICAL IMPACT OF BOTH OF THOSE THINGS TOGETHER.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT HAS ANY SORT OF CUMULATIVE EFFECT?

>> DONALD TRUMP HAS CHANGED THE NATURE OF OUR POLITICS, AND WHAT IS SEEN AS ACCEPTABLE.

THE IDEA, FRANKLY, THAT YOU COULD GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AFTER THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE WAS SHOCKING.

THEN YOU HAD THE E. JEAN CARROLL CASE.

NOW YOU HAVE THE HUSH MONEY CASE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS IN ANOTHER ERA WOULD HAVE BEEN DISQUALIFYING.

TO BE -- FRANKLY, TO BE CONVICTED OF -- ON 34 COUNTS OF FELONY OFFENSES, WE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE COMPLETELY DISQUALIFYING.

SO, ALL OF THE NORMS HAVE -- HAVE REALLY BEEN DISRUPTED BY DONALD TRUMP AND THE MAGA MOVEMENT.

AND THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN SO CONFOUNDING IN TERMS OF WATCHING HOW GENDER PLAYS OUT IN ALL OF THIS, BECAUSE I THINK THERE WAS THE ASSUMPTION, ALWAYS, THAT, WELL, HE WOULD LOSE WOMEN.

I'M NOT SURE HE CARES ANYMORE.

ABOUT PICKING UP AND EXPANDING HIS BASE, RIGHT?

HE IS HAPPY WITH HIS BASE.

YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT AFTER ALL OF THIS, WHERE WAS HE SEEN AFTER THE TRIAL?

HE WAS SEEN AT A WRESTLING MATCH, WITH A LOT OF BROS, FRANKLY,CHEERING HIM ON.

AND I THINK HE'S COMFORTABLE WITH THAT AS HIS BASE.

>> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE POINTED OUT IN YOUR OWN WRITINGS, IN YOUR ANALYSIS OF POLLING DATA GOING BACK FOR YEARS IS THAT WHITE WOMEN HAVE VOTED REPUBLICAN IN EVERY ELECTION SINCE 2000, IN BUSH V GORE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

WHAT IT COULD MEAN THAT PARTY AFFILIATION TRUMPS -- NO PUN INTENDED, TRUMPS ALL.

>> I THINK THAT WAS TRUE IN THE FIRST GO ROUND.

I THINK WHITE WOMEN WERE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY WERE REPUBLICANS AND THEY VOTED REPUBLICAN.

I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WHITE WOMEN ARE NOT MONOLITHIC.

SO, THERE ARE COLLEGE EDUCATED WHITE WOMEN WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC, THERE ARE NONCOLLEGE EDUCATED WHITE WOMEN WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE REPUBLICAN.

THERE ARE SINGLE WHITE WOMEN WHO HAVE LEANED MORE TOWARDS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

ECONOMICS HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS, COLLEGE EDUCATION HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS.

AND SO, THERE IS VARIATION EVEN WITHIN THAT DEMOGRAPHIC.

>> ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE SEE DRIVING VOTERS IS THE DOBBS DECISION, AND WE FIND THAT WOMEN ARE STILL HAVING ABORTIONS, BUT IT'S BECOME VERY DIFFICULT, ESPECIALLY IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

AND WE'VE SEEN THAT THIS HAS HAT AN EFFECT ON WOMEN'S VOTING BEHAVIOR.

CAN YOU SORT OF TALK ABOUT THAT?

SO FAR, THE ONLY WAY THIS HAS PLAYED OUT HAS BEEN IN THE STATES.

BUT WHAT -- WHAT EFFECT DO YOU THINK THIS MIGHT HAVE?

>> I THINK THIS IS A MOBILIZING ISSUE.

AND IT'S A MOBILIZING ISSUE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEARNED FROM THE MIDTERMS COULD BE POWERFUL FOR THEM.

YOU KNOW, THE -- THE RED WAVE THAT WAS PREDICTED IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS DIDN'T HAPPEN, AND IT LARGELY DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THAT ENERGY THAT WENT INTO THE CAMPAIGNING THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DID, THE PRIORITIZING OF THE ABORTION ISSUE.

AND DONALD TRUMP HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, I DID THIS, I'M RESPONSIBLE, AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS NOW PINNING IT ON HIM AND SAYING, HE DID THIS.

THIS IS DONALD TRUMP, AND WE'VE SEEN THAT EVEN IN SOME EARLY ADS FROM THE BIDEN -- FROM THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN.

SO, CAMPAIGNS ARE ABOUT -- ARE ABOUT INFORMING VOTERS AROUND ISSUES AND ENERGIZING THEM TO GET OUT TO VOTE.

AND IF THERE'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS AN IMPETUS TO ACTUALLY SHOW UP TO VOTE, EVEN IF YOU'RE A SOLID DEMOCRATIC VOTER, IF YOU DON'T FEEL ENERGIZED AND YOU DON'T SHOW UP ON ELECTION DAY, IT DOESN'T MATTER.

SO, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT CAN HELP WITH TURNOUT, THAT CAN GET PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE, WOMEN OUT TO VOTE, IN AN ELECTION THAT THEY MIGHT BE A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE DISINTERESTED, I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN SOME PUGH DATA THAT SHOWS THAT VOTERS ARE TIRED.

THE NEWS CARING SO MUCH ABOUT THIS ELECTION ALREADY AND ABOUT POLITICS, AND THEY'RE GETTING BURNT OUT, BUT THIS ISSUE IS VERY PRESSING.

AND I THINK IT CAN BE AN ISSUE THAT WILL TURN OUT WOMEN VOTERS, ENERGIZE THEM AND GET THEM TO THE POLLS.

WE SAW THAT TO BE A POWERFUL FORCE IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

>> OKAY, SO, LET'S WHEEL IT AROUND THEN AND TALK ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT BIDEN, A RECENT REUTERS POLL RELEASED THIS MONTH, WHICH WAS PRIOR TO THE TRUMP CONVICTION, I HAVE TO SAY, SHOWED THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS LOSING SUPPORT AMONG VOTERS WITHOUT COLLEGE DEGREES.

AND THAT'S A BIG GROUP, AND IT'S A DIVERSE GROUP, IT INCLUDES A LOT OF BLACK VOETERS, A LOT OF LATINAS, YOUNG VOTERS, SUBURBAN WOMEN.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> I THINK THE PARTY HAS TO BE SPEAKING TO ISSUES THAT FOLKS IN THESE COMMUNITIES CARE ABOUT, AND MAKING THE CASE, WHICH IS WHAT THIS CAMPAIGN WILL NEED TO BE ABOUT, MAKING THE CASE THAT THE PRIORITIES OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, NOT JUST WHAT THEY'VE DONE, BUT WHAT THEY PLAN TO DO, REALLY SPEAKS TO THOSE NEEDS.

THAT'S WHY, PARTICULARLY FOR WOMEN VOTERS, SPEAKING TO THESE ISSUES AROUND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE ARE CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT.

ALSO FOR YOUNG WOMEN, CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

BUT WE KNOW THAT THOSE TOP ISSUES FOR VOTERS ARE THE ECONOMY AND IMMIGRATION, WHEN -- WHEN THE MOST RECENT POLLING THAT I'VE SEEN STILL HAS THOSE TWO ISSUES AT THE VERY TOP.

AND ABORTION COMING IN AS A THIRD -- AS A THIRD TOP ISSUE.

IT HAS DEFINITELY MOVED UP.

THIS USED TO BE SOMETHING THAT WAS -- WHEN IT WAS SETTLED AND PEOPLE THOUGHT THIS WAS SAFE, THEY DIDN'T GO THERE, THAT WASN'T ON THE TOP OF THEIR AGENDA.

IT HAS DEFINITELY MOVED UP.

BUT THERE HAS TO BE A CASE MADE TO THOSE VOTERS THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE THINGS THAT BENEFIT THEM, AND IT HAS TO MAKE THE CASE THAT THE PLANS FOR THE FUTURE ALSO INCLUDE THEM.

AND THIS IS A CHALLENGE THAT I THINK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS HAD, WHICH IS, TAKING GROUPS OF VOTERS FOR GRANTED.

YOU KNOW, BLACK WOMEN VOTERS HAVE BEEN THE BACKBONE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THEY HAVE BEEN THE GROUP THAT HAS BEEN MOST CONSISTENT, MOST THERE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND GOTTEN CANDIDATES ELECTED ACROSS THE BOARD.

BUT BLACK WOMEN VOTERS ARE DEMANDING, AS THEY SHOULD, TO SEE ACTUAL BENEFIT FROM THAT VOTE.

YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR US?

AND THAT'S WHAT THE CAMPAIGN HAS TO BE ABOUT.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT THE -- THE DEMOCRATS AND THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN IN PARTICULAR, HAVE SPOKEN ENOUGH ABOUT THE FUTURE?

I MEAN, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS, HE SAID WHAT HE PLANS TO DO, HE'S GOING TO TRY TO PURGE THE FEDERAL BUREAUCRACY OF PEOPLE WHO HE THINKS ARE OBSTRUCTIONIST.

HAVE THE DEMOCRATS ANSWERED THAT WITH ANYTHING?

>> I THINK THAT THE CHALLENGE THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE HAD IS CLEARLY ANNUNCIATING WHAT HAS BEEN DONE OVER THESE FOUR YEARS, AND THE WAYS IN WHICH IT'S BENEFITED PEOPLE.

IN DAY-TO-DAY LIFE, EVEN IF INFLATION SEEMS TO BE COMING DOWN AND THE ECONOMY SEEMS TO BE ON A BETTER FOOTING, THE GENERAL PUBLIC ISN'T FEELING IT, AND IF THEY DON'T FEEL IT, IT'S NOT REAL FOR THEM.

BUT I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, I THINK THERE HAS TO BE STATEMENTS ABOUT WHAT'S COMING IN THE FUTURE.

AND IT CAN'T JUST BE, BE VERY AFRAID OF DONALD TRUMP.

IT AS HAS TO BE ABOUT THE VALUE ADDED THAT FOUR MORE YEARS OF THE DEMOCRATS HOLDING THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND POSSIBLY GAINING CONTROL OF THE HOUSE, WHAT THAT WILL MEAN IN THEIR LIVES.

AND THAT HAS TO BE ARTICULATED IN A VERY CLEAR WAY.

SO THAT FOLKS FEEL THAT IT'S TO THEIR ADVANTAGE TO HAVE DEMOCRATS IN CONTROL.

>> I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DRILL DOWN AGAIN AS WOMEN AS VOTERS, RECOGNIZING THAT WOMEN ARE CERTAINLY NOT A MONOLITH, BUT IS THERE SOMETHING THAT HAS CHANGED FOR WOMEN IN THE WAY WOMEN SEE ELECTIONS?

>> I WOULD SAY THAT EVEN -- EVEN IN THE UPSIDE DOWN WORLD, WHERE THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS OUT THE WINDOW, WE STILL SEE, WHEN YOU AGGREGATE THE WOMEN'S VOTE, A GENDER GAP.

WE STILL SEE WOMEN VOTING IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAN MEN.

WE SEE THAT WOMEN OVERALL ARE MORE LIKELY TO SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE THAN MEN.

LESS LIKELY TO SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE THAN MEN.

AND EVEN WITHIN THE SUPPORT THAT DONALD TRUMP GETS, IT IS LESS THAN IT IS MORE FROM MEN THAN FROM WOMEN.

SO, THERE IS STILL -- THERE IS STILL THAT GENDER GAP.

AND WE STILL HAVE SEEN WOMEN OUTVOTING MEN.

IN THE LAST ELECTION, YOU KNOW, 10 MILLION MORE WOMEN VOTED THAN DID MEN.

SO, AT THE END OF THE DAY, EVEN IN ALL THE CHAOS, EVEN IN ALL OF THE UPSIDE DOWNESS OF THE WORLD, WE ARE STILL SEEING THAT PATTERN OF WOMEN VOTING DIFFERENTLY THAN MEN, AND SEEING WOMEN OUTVOTING MEN.

>> SO, THE PROBLEM THEN FOR THE DEMOCRATS IS THE ENTHUSIASM GAP.

THAT IS THEIR BIG -- >> THAT IS A BIG CHALLENGE FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THAT TURNING OUT THOSE WOMEN FROM VARIOUS DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS, FROM VARIOUS EDUCATION BACKGROUNDS, GETTING THEM TO SHOW UP AT THE POLLS TO FEEL THEY HAVE A STAKE IN THIS ELECTION, THAT THEY ARE NOT SO TURNED OFF, COMPLETELY FROM POLITICS,.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DONALD TRUMP DID DO BY GETTING ELECTED WAS HE ENERGIZED WOMEN, RIGHT?

WE SAW WOMEN RUNNING AT RECORD NUMBERS IN 2018, WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT THIS TIME.

WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NOT NOT SEEING WOMEN RUNNING, BUT WE'RE NOT BREAKING RECORDS.

WE'RE -- WE SAW WOMEN ENGAGING IN ACTIVISM IN WAYS THAT WE HAD NOT SEEN IN A LONG TIME.

YOU KNOW, WOMEN WHO, I THINK, FELT LIKE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN POLITICS SUDDENLY FELT LIKE THEY NEEDED TO BE INVOLVED IN POLITICS.

BUT I THINK THERE'S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF EXHAUSTION FROM POLITICS, I THINK THERE'S WATCHING CONGRESS LOOK BROKEN, LOOKING LIKE THIS SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK, AND THEY'RE TIRED.

AND THEY'RE JUST TIRED OF IT.

AND SO, MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE TAPPING INTO SOME ISSUES THAT ARE REALLY KEY, AND, AGAIN, MAKING VOTERS FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A REAL STAKE IN THE OUTCOME, THAT IT MATTERS TO THEIR LIVES, WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THIS ELECTION IS.

REGARDLESS OF, YOU KNOW, YOUR POSITION ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AND THE ISSUES HE CARES ABOUT, HE HAS MADE HIS VOTERS BELIEVE THAT THEIR FUTURES ARE DEPENDENT ON HIM GETTING ELECTED.

THAT THEIR LIVES AND THEIR LIVELIHOODS AND THEIR FUTURES HINGE ON HIS ELECTION.

AND IN SOME WAY, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS TO -- THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN, HAS TO -- AND THE DEMOCRATS, HAVE TO MAKE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AND INDEPENDENT VOTERS BELIEVE THAT ABOUT ELECTING DEMOCRATS.

>> AS PART OF YOUR WORK AT THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN WOMEN IN POLITICS, YOU KEEP TRACK OF WHAT WOMEN VOTERS ARE DOING, BUT YOU ALSO KEEP TRACK OF WHAT WOMEN CANDIDATES ARE DOING.

WHAT ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO?

WHAT ARE YOU KEEPING YOUR EYE ON AS WE HEAD TO NOVEMBER?

>> WELL, WE'RE KEEPING OUR EYE ON CANDIDATES ACROSS THE BOARD.

OUR STATE LEGISLATIVE NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN OUR FEDERAL CANDIDATES, AND I THINK WE MAY BE SEEING RECORD NUMBERS THERE, WE'RE STILL -- THERE'S STILL LOTS OF PRIMARIES LEFT TO HAPPEN.

BUT WE'RE LOOKING PARTICULARLY AT THE STATES NOW, BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT'S GOING ON IS HAPPENING AT THE STATES.

AND I THINK FOR A LOT OF WOMEN WHO MAY HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT RUNNING, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LOOKING, AGAIN, AT CONGRESS IS A PLACE THAT'S BROKEN, BUT STATE LEGISLATURES HAVE A REAL IMPACT ON PEOPLE'S LIVES, PARTICULARLY AROUND THESE ISSUES AROUND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, RIGHT?

WE'RE ALSO LOOKING NOW IN WAYS THAT WE HAVEN'T IN THE PAST, LOOKING AT WOMEN AS DONORS TO CANDIDATES, AND ALSO THE MONEY THAT FLOWS INTO WOMEN'S CANDIDACIES, AND REALLY TRYING TO DO SOME DEEP DIVE ANALYSIS AND UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WOMEN AS DONORS, WHO ARE THEY?

WE MAY NOT LOVE THE FACT THAT MONEY PLAYS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART IN POLITICS, BUT THAT IS THE REALITY.

SO, HOPING THAT WOMEN ARE -- ARE HELPING GET THE CANDIDATES THEY CARE ABOUT ELECTED BY SUPPORTING THEM FINANCIALLY, AS WELL.

>> DEBBIE WALSH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.