June 19, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> Translator: BOTH COUNTRIES DENOUNCE POLITICALLY MOTIVATED SANCTIONS AND RESTRICTIONS, WHICH ONLY DESTABILIZE THE GLOBAL AND ECONOMIC SYSTEM.

>> A MEETING OF DESPOTS AND AN ANTI-WEST AXIS.

ANALYSIS, AND PUTIN AND KIM STRIKE A DEFENSE DEAL.

THEN -- >> AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT FEELS MORE LIKE FREEDOM, MORE LIKE EQUALITY, MORE LIKE JUSTICE, AND I YOU THIS IT'S WAITING FOR US.

>> JUNETEENTH.

AS AMERICA CELEBRATING THE END OF SLAVERY, THE ONGOING STRUGGLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE.

CHRISTIANE SPEAKS TO BRYAN STEVENSON.

PLUS -- >> WE KNOW THAT FOOD HAS ALWAYS PLAYED A CENTRAL ROLE IN CULTURAL EXPRESSION, COMMUNITY BUILDING AND SURVIVAL.

>> THE EVOLUTION AND DIVERSITY OF AFRICAN AMERICAN CUISINE, WITH THE AWARD-WINNING CHEF BRIAN TERRY.

♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> HI, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

A PACT BETWEEN DICTATORS.

VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS WRAPPED UP HIS TRIP TO NORTH KOREA, WHERE HE WAS GREETED WITH MUCH FANFARE.

THERE, HE SIGNED A COMPREHENSIVE DEFENSE DEAL WITH KIM JONG-UN.

SPEAKING AFTER LENGTHY TALKS, PUTIN DID NOT RULE OUT, QUOTE, THE PROVISION OF MUTUAL ASSISTANCE IN THE EVENT OF AGGRESSION AGAINST ONE OF THE PARTIES TO AGREEMENT.

HERE'S THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT.

>> Translator: TODAY, WE HELD SUBSTANTIVE NEGOTIATIONS ON A WHOLE RANGE OF PRACTICAL COOPERATION.

THIS INCLUDES POLITICAL, TRADE, INVESTMENT, CULTURAL SPHERES, AND THE SECURITY FEAR, AS WELL.

I AGREE THAT THIS IS TRULY A BREAK-THROUGH DOCUMENT, REFLECTING THE DESIRE OF BOTH COUNTRIES NOT TO STOP AT THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS, BUT TO RAISE OUR ACHIEVEMENTS AT A NEW LEVEL.

>> KIM SAID THE EYES OF THE WORLD WERE ON PYONGYANG, VOWING HIS FULL SUPPORT FOR PUTIN'S AND PUTIN CERTAINLY WANTS ARMS FROM NORTH KOREA.

THE QUESTION IS, WHAT HE IS WILLING TO GIVE IN RETURN.

AND WHAT IS THIS STRENGTHENING OF AN ANTI-WEST AXIS MEAN FOR AMERICA AND ITS ALLIES?

FIRST, LET'S BRING IN CORRESPONDENT MIKE VALERIO FROM SEOUL IN SOUTH KOREA FOR MORE ON THIS VISIT.

MIKE, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT HOW THIS WAS ALL VIEWED FROM SEOUL IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT FIRST, LAY OUT WHAT WE SAW, THE FIRST TIME THAT RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN VISITED PYONGYANG IN 24 YEARS.

A LOT OF POMP IN THESE PAST 48 HOURS.

>> SURE, ABSOLUTELY, BIANNA.

I THINK REALLY THERE WAS AN INDELIBLE IMAGE, AND INDELIBLE POLICY MOMENT THAT FOLLOWED A COUPLE HOURS AFTER THAT POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE REALLY STARTED TO PLAY OUT IN THE CENTRAL SQUARE.

KIM IL-SUNG SQUARE, THAT COULD HOLD 100,000 PEOPLE.

THE INDELL EBEL IMAGE IS REALLY CONVEYING THAT THESE TWO LAIDERS OF SANCTIONS COUNTRIES CAN GO THEIR OWN WAY, SURVIVE ON THEIR OWN.

AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KIM JONG-UN, VLADIMIR PUTIN, IN AN OPEN AIR, SLEEK, BLACK LIMO, TO THE THRONGS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WATCHING IN KIM IL-SUNG SQUARE, TRYING THE PROTECT THIS IMAGE, THAT, YEAH, WE GOT THIS, WE'RE STANDING STRONGER TOGETHER, AND WE CAN GO OUR OWN WAY, AS EQUAL PARTNERS IN THIS NEW ALLIANCE THAT KIM JONG-UN USED THAT POINTED WORD OF ALLIANCE LATER ON IN THE DAY, WHEN THIS MEETING WAS ALL SAID AN DONE.

SO, THAT IS THE VISUAL THAT WE HAVE HERE.

AND THEN THEY GO AND MEET BEHIND CLOSED DOORS FOR ABOUT 3 1/2 HOURS.

AND VLADIMIR PUTIN COMS OUT, BIANNA, AND SAYS, WE'VE MADE PROGRESS ON ECONOMIC, TRADE, PEOPLE TO PEOPLE ISSUES, BUT WE ALSO HAVE MADE PROGRESS IN THE SPHERE OF MUTUAL DEFENSE.

SAYING THAT THERE IS A PROVISION OF MUTUAL ASSISTANCE IN THE EVENT OF AGGRESSION.

SO, WE'RE ALL STANDING HERE AS OBSERVERS AND PEOPLE IN DIPLOMATIC QUARTERS SAYING, OKAY, WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN?

MUTUAL ASSISTANCE IN MOMENTS OF AGGRESSION?

AND, OF COURSE, WE HAVE A 1961 TREATY, NO LONGER IN EFFECT, CLEARLY, BETWEEN THE USSR AND NORTH KOREA, SIGNED BY KIM IL-SUNG AND KHRUSHCHEV, JULY 1st OF 1961, SAYING THAT IF EITHER COUNTRY WAS TO COME UNDER ATTACK, THAT BOTH WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATE MILITARY ASSISTANCE.

THE LANGUAGE HERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE AS STRONG, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE FULL TEXT OF THIS AGREEMENT, AND PERHAPS, BIANNA, THAT IS THE POINT.

TO BE INCREDIBLY VAGUE ABOUT THIS, TO SHAKE THINGS UP, CREATING, YOU KNOW, A PATH TO THIS NEW WORLD ORDER THAT RUSSIA WANTS TO SHAPE, TO COUNTER THE EXISTING RULES-BASED, LAWS-BASED ORDER THEIR THE UNITED STATES AND THE WEST ARE THE VANGUARDS OF.

SO, THAT'S WHERE WE FIND WE'RE GOING TO WATCH THIS SPACE, BECAUSE THERE IS SUPPOSEDLY ANOTHER MEETING, SUMMIT OF SOME SORT, IN A SIMILAR VEIN, HAPPENING IN MOSCOW, IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE, BUT YOU KNOW, THE RAMIFICATIONS, THE IMPLICATIONS HERE ARE, WILL WE START TO SEE MILITARY DRILLS?

MILITARY COOPERATION, AS YOU MENTIONED, IN THE INTRODUCTION TO THIS SEGMENT, BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA, PERHAPS DRILLS NEAR SOME OF THESE DISPUTED ISLANDS ON THE BORDER OF NORTH AND SOUTH KOREA?

SO, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THIS NEW CLOSER RELATIONSHIP, BIANNA.

>> AND HOW IS THIS ALL BEING CONSUMED IN SOUTH KOREA, MIKE, WHERE WE'VE SEEN AN INGLEES PROVOCATIONS VIA BALLOONS BETWEEN THESE TWO SIDES, SOUTH KOREA HAD BEEN SENDING BALLOONS INTO THE NORTH WITH ANTI-NORTH KOREA LEAFLETS AND IN RESPONSE, WE SAW NORTH KOREA OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS SENDING GARBAGE-FILLED BALLOONS, ABOUT 1,000 OF THEM, TO THE SOUTH.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE OVER THE BALLOONS, YOU KNOW, DON'T EVEN GET WE STARTED ON THAT SUBJECT, BUT I THINK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DIPLOMACY, AND RUSSIA ENTERING THE CHAT OF THIS CONVERSATION, IT'S BEING MET WITH DEEP CONCERN, THAT IS THE EXACT VERBIAGE THAT SOUTH KOREAN SECURITY OFFICIALS ARE LENDING TO THIS TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, WHEN THEY WERE MEETING WITH THEIR CHINESE COUNTERPARTS YESTERDAY TO DISCUSS THEIR COLLECTIVE SECURITY CONCERNS.

EFFECTS BOTH CHINA AND SOUTH KOREA.

SO, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, WE HAVE PRESIDENT YOON SUCK YOOL, WHO WAS ASKED MAY 9th, HOW HE WOULD FEEL IN VLADIMIR PUTIN VISITED PYONGYANG, AND HAD THIS BROMANCE MOMENT WITH NORTH KOREA'S LEADER, AND HE WAS VERY CAREFUL.

HE SAID THAT SOUTH KOREA ACTUALLY, IN THE RELATIVE SCHEME OF THINGS, HAS PRETTY GOOD RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA, AND RUSSIA, IN FACT, SAYS THAT, OF ALL THE NOT SO FRIENDLY NATIONS, SOUTH KOREA IS ONE OF THE BEST.

SOUTH KOREA, NOTABLY, IS NOT SENDING LETHAL MUNITIONS TO UKRAINE, VLADIMIR PUTIN WENT OUT OF HIS WAY LAST WEEK TO SAY -- MAKE IT KNOWN THAT HE APPRECIATES SOUTH KOREA NOT SENDING THOSE LETHAL MUNITIONS.

SO LONG STORY LONG, THE PRESIDENT HERE IN SOUTH KOREA IS TRYING TO WALK A FINE LINE.

HE'S SAYING A LOT OF THESE RUSSIAN MOVES ARE MAKING HIM UNCOMFORTABLE.

THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO WORK WITH RUSSIA IN AREAS WHERE THEY CAN COOPERATE, SO, A LOT OF DEEP CONCERN, A LOT OF TIGHT ROPE WALKING.

WE'RE WAITING FOR THE DUST TO SETTLE FOR PERHAPS SOME MORE CLARIFY ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A NEW AUTOCRATIC VERSION OF NATO ARTICLE V, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE HOW THIS IS RECEIVED.

>> MIKE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND LETTING US KNOW WE ARE OVER BALLOONGATE THERE.

>>> LET'S BRING IN SUE MI TERRY, SHE WORKED FOR THE CIA AND THEN FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL.

AND SHE'S NOW A SENIOR FELLOW FOR KOREA STUDIES AT THE COUNCIL FOR FOREIGN RELATIONS.

SUE MI TERRY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

IT'S BEEN 24 YEARS SINCE VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS VISITED THE HERMIT STATE, AND, YET, WE HAVE NO READOUT OF WHAT THIS MUTUAL DEFENSE PLEDGE REALLY ENTAILS, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL PAST IT IS RATIONS OF A SIMILAR TYPE OF PLEDGE, THE MOST RECENT IN 2000, AND THAT ONE, THOUGH, THE ONLY CLAUSE IS THAT THEY WOULD BE CALLING EACH OTHER AND CONTACTING EACH OTHER IN CERTAIN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.

TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU MAKE OF WHAT WE SAW SIGNED TODAY.

>> I THINK THIS NEW TREATY IS SIGNIFICANT.

PUTIN VISITING NORTH KOREA IS SIGNIFICANT.

THIS BURGEONING MILITARY ALLIANCE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA IS SIGNIFICANT.

YOU KNOW, THIS SHOWS THAT PUTIN IS VERY DESPERATE, AND HE HAS NOW ABANDONED ALL HOPES, OR ANY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, NO MORE JOINING THE WEST, AND WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO MAKE SURE THE U.S.-LED INTERNATIONAL ORDER COLLAPSES.

IT'S A VERY CONCERNING DEVELOPMENT.

WE'VE HAD NORTH KOREANS SENDING MUNITIONS, ARTILLERY SHELLS, AND OTHER MILITARY EQUIPMENT TO -- FOR RUSSIA'S WAR EFFORT IN UKRAINE.

WE HAVE SOME 10,000 CONTAINERS OF, YOU KNOW, EQUIPMENT THAT THE NORTH KOREANS HAVE SENT TO RUSSIA.

BUT THE KEY QUESTION ALWAYS WAS, HOW MUCH IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH WILLING IS PUTIN, IN TERMS OF HELPING NORTH KOREA, WHAT WAS HE GOING TO DO?

WAS HE GOING TO HELP NORTH KOREA WITH MILITARY-SENSITIVE TECHNOLOGIES THAT'S GOING TO HELP NORTH KOREA'S WMD PROGRAM?

AND NOW WITH THIS SECURITY CLAUSE, IT'S NOW VERY CONCERNING THAT THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS NO LONGER JUST MARRIAGE OF, YOU KNOW, CONVENIENCE FOR A LITTLE BIT, WHERE PUTIN IS JUST RELYING ON SOME EQUIPMENT COMING TO UKRAINE.

IT -- NOW THERE ARE BIGGER CONCERNS IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH RUSSIA CAN HELP NORTH KOREA ON NORTH KOREA'S WMD PROGRAM.

>> IT DOES APPEAR THAT HE'S CROSSED THE RUBICON IN TRYING TO REHABILITATE HIMSELF, EVER, WHEN THE WAR WITH UKRAINE DOES END, GIVEN THIS NEW ALLIANCE WITH NORTH KOREA.

AS YOU MENTIONED, 10,000 CONTAINERS OF MUNITIONS HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED ALREADY.

AS YOU NOTE, THE REAL CONCERN HERE IS, YES, THAT IS A SHORT-TERM BENEFIT FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN, NOW ON THE BATTLEFIELD, BUT LONGER-TERM, DO YOU THINK, AT THIS POINT, AT THIS STAGE, VLADIMIR PUTIN IS WILLING TO TRANSFER TECHNOLOGICAL INSIGHT AND KNOW-HOW TO NORTH KOREA?

NORTH KOREA RIGHT NOW IS IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING HYPER SONIC MISSILES, AS WELL, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT RUSSIA HAS ALREADY BOASTED OF ACHIEVING BEFORE.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONCERNING FOR WASHINGTON?

>> I THINK WASHINGTON -- THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, AS THE SOUTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW MUCH, REALLY, WHAT PUTIN WAS WILLING TO DO, AND THERE'S SOME ARGUMENTS AGAINST IT, RIGHT?

THE MUNITIONS, THE ARTILLERY SHELLS THAT NORTH KOREA IS PROVIDING RUSSIA ARE ARCHAIC, THEY ARE NOT THE MOST SOPHISTICATED KIND OF SHELLS, SO, IS PUTIN REALLY WILLING TO GO AS FAR AS PROVIDING MILITARY TECHNOLOGY, SEND TECHNOLOGY TO NORTH KOREA IN RETURN FOR THIS, BUT IT IS INCREASINGLY LOOKS LIKE HE'S DESPERATE.

AND SO, WE CANNOT RULE IT OUT.

AND IF YOU REMEMBER, IF YOU RECALL, AFTER KIM JONG-UN VISITED RUSSIA, MET WITH PUTIN IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR, ONLY TWO MONTHS LATER, NORTH KOREA SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHED A SATELLITE WHEN NORTH KOREA FAILED TO DO SO THE PREVIOUS TWO TIMES IN THE PAST YEAR.

SO, EVEN IF RUSSIANS DID NOT DIRECTLY HELP WITH TECHNOLOGY, THEY WERE CERTAINLY INVOLVED IN TERMS OF GIVING GUIDANCE AND ADVICE AND SHARING THEIR KNOW-HOW.

SO, THIS IS A DEFINITELY A CONCERN.

I THINK IT WAS INTENTIONAL THAT THE RUSSIANS AND NORTH KOREANS HAVE NOT EXPLICITLY STATED WHAT KIND OF HELP AND AID THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, OR TRANSFER OF TECHNOLOGY, BUT PUTIN HIMSELF SAID, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL SHARE MILITARY TECHNOLOGY.

I THINK HE'S -- THAT WAS HIS PHRASE.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW SENSITIVE, WHAT KIND OF SENSITIVE TECHNOLOGY, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY A CONCERN, AND I'M SURE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ONE OF THE TOP CONCERNS RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH, AND PUTIN'S AEROSPACE CHIEF ACCOMPANIED HIM ON THIS VISIT, AS DID HIS ENERGY MINISTER, AS WELL.

I'M CURIOUS, SUE MI, WHAT DOES CHINA FEEL ABOUT THIS VISIT?

HOW CLOSELY IS BEIJING WATCHING?

BECAUSE THERE WASN'T -- THERE WAS A TIME NOT SO LONG AGO WHERE NOT ONLY CHINA, BUT RUSSIA, TOO, WAS WORKING WITH THE UNITED STATES, HOPING TO CONTAIN NORTH KOREA TO SOME DEGREE IN THEIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM.

HOW IS CHINA WATCHING ALL OF THIS, INTERPRETING IT?

>> CHINA IS WATCHING THIS VERY WARILY.

THEY HAVE -- THEY'RE VERY CONFLICTED ABOUT THIS.

THERE'S ALSO LOOSE ALIGNMENT BETWEEN CHINA, RUSSIA, NORTH KOREA, AND EVEN IRAN, BUT FROM CHINA'S PERSPECTIVE, ONLY ONE HAND, IT'S OKAY FOR NORTH KOREA TO GET SOME ECONOMIC AID AND SO ON FROM RUSSIA, BECAUSE CHINA IS LITERALLY THE ONLY REMAINING PATRON, 90% OF NORTH KOREA'S TRADE IS WITH CHINA, SO, IT COULD USE, YOU KNOW, RUSSIA COULD HELP NORTH KOREA STABILIZE NORTH KOREA AND HELP BRING IT UP ECONOMICALLY AND DEFINITELY CHINA DOES NOT INSTABILITY OF THE KOREAN PENINSULA OR COLLAPSE OF THE KIM REGIME.

BUT CHINA IS DEFINITELY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS -- THIS BURGEONING MILITARY ALLIANCE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA, AND IT'S NOT IN CHINA'S INTEREST FOR NORTH KOREA TO REALLY ADVANCE THEIR WMD CAPABILITY AND PERFECT THEIR WEAPONS, BECAUSE LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE REGION.

RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE SOUTH KOREA, JAPAN, UNITED STATES, STRENGTHENING THEIR TRI-LITERAL RELATIONSHIP, RIGHT?

SOUTH KOREA AND JAPAN HAD ALWAYS HISTORICALLY HAD DIFFICULT AND TROUBLED RELATIONSHIP, BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE WORKING VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER.

THE YOON SUK-YEOL ADMINISTRATION, THE KISHIDA ADMINISTRATION, AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, AND FROM CHINA'S PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S ALSO NOT A GOOD DEVELOPMENT.

SO, I THINK THERE'S -- IT'S VERY COMPLICATED MIXED PICTURE.

CHINA, NORTH KOREA RELATIONSHIP ITSELF IS COMPLICATED.

EVEN THOUGH CHINA IS NORTH KOREA'S MAIN ALLY AND PATRON, IT'S -- IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S A LOVE AFFAIR THERE, EITHER.

THERE IS A LOT OF SUSPICION AND MUTUAL DISTRUST.

SO, I THINK IT'S VERY COMPLICATED PICTURE FOR CHINA AND THEY ARE WATCHING IT VERY, VERY CLOSELY.

>> AS YOU NOTED, SEOUL IS WATCHING THIS CLOSELY, AS WELL.

JUST LAST YEAR THAT A NEW NUCLEAR DETERRENCE AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED BETWEEN SEOUL AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

SOUTH KOREA, NOT FOR A LACK OF TECHNOLOGY, BUT HAS NOT PURSUED NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM.

ARE THEY GOING TO BE THINKING TWICE ABOUT THAT AND QUESTIONING REAL SECURITY PROMISES FROM THE UNITED STATES IF WE DO SEE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT AND ALIGNMENT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA ON THIS FRONT?

>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THERE'S ALREADY BEEN A TALK, INCREASING TALK, WHETHER SOUTH KOREA KNEE TO DEVELOP THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS, TOO, OR BRING TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO SOUTH KOREA.

THERE ARE CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE NORTH KOREA'S WMD THREAT HAS BEEN GROWING IN THE PAST FEW YEARS.

EVER SINCE THE COLLAPSE OF THE HANOI SUMMIT, NORTH KOREA HAS NOT BEEN INTERESTED IN RETURNING TO DIALOGUE, AND THEY'VE BOON MODERNIZING THEIR MISSILE CAPABILITY AND SO ON.

SO, NOW, YOU ADD THIS DEVELOPMENT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA, AND NOW LET'S ADD ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT IN NOVEMBER THIS YEAR, THERE'S A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND IF WE HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION, SOUTH KOREANS ARE VERY CONCERNED.

YOU HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP TALKING ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE U.S.

FORCES IN SOUTH KOREA, NEED TO REDUCE OUR TROOP PRESENCE IN SOUTH KOREA, IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE TO KEEP THEM THERE.

HE MADE OVER 120 TIMES SINCE HIS 1990 "PLAYBOY" INTERVIEW WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT POTENTIALLY REDUCING TROOPS, OUR TROOP PRESENCE IN SOUTH KOREA.

SO, I THINK SOUTH KOREANS ARE VERY NERVOUS FOR A WHOLE HOST OF REASONS AND IT HAS TO BE IN THE BACK OF THEIR MIND, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THEY SAY FOR NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PURSUE THEIR OWN NUCLEAR WEAPONS CAPABILITY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE ON THE TABLE FOR THE SOUTH KOREAN GOVERNMENT.

>> THIS IS A COMMON THING WE HEAR NOW, OBVIOUSLY, IN ASIA, WE FOCUS A LOT ABOUT THIS SAME CONCERN ABOUT TRYING TO TRUMP-PROOF U.S. POLICY WITH REGARDS TO ALLIANCES IN NATO, SPECIFICALLY, AS IT RELATES TO UKRAINE, AS WELL.

YOU BROUGHT UP DONALD TRUMP.

I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FOR YOU FROM HIS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER THAT SPOKE WITH CHRISTIANE YESTERDAY, WHO WAS REALLY PROMOTING THE STRENGTH THAT TRUMP BROUGHT TO THIS ISSUE, IN HIS VIEW, AND SITTING DOWN WITH KIM JONG-UN, VIEWING THAT AS A POSITIVE.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> WE HAD SOME CORDIAL DIPLOMACY WITH THEM.

AND KEEP IN MIND, THEY PROMISED TO DENUCLEARIZE.

THEY PROMISED TO END THEIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM ON THE PENINSULA.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD TO WALK AWAY WITH THE HANOI SUMMIT, WHEN KIM JONG-UN TRIED TO GO BACK ON THAT DEAL, SO, WE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH AFTER THAT, BUT KEEP IN MIND, THERE WAS NO NUCLEAR TESTING DURING THE ENTIRE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BECAUSE WE SHOWED STRENGTH, COUPLED WITH SOME TOUGH DIPLOMACY.

>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HIS COMMENTS?

>> I'LL SAY, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SHOWED STRENGTH IN 2017 WHEN HE WAS PURSUING MAXIMUM PRESSURE POLICY AND WE ACTUALLY GOT CHINA AND RUSSIA TO IMPLEMENT SANCTIONS IN 2017, BUT NORTH KOREA NEVER AGREED TO DENUCLEARIZE.

THEY TALKED ABOUT THE SINGAPORE SUMMIT, THIS ASPIRATIONAL STATEMENT, WHERE NORTH KOREA SAID THEY WOULD WORK TOWARDS DENUCLEARIZATION OF THE KOREAN PENINSULA.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT SOUTH KOREA, TOO.

IN ANY CASE, THE WHOLE THING FELL APART.

THEY WERE WILDLY MISUNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER WHEN THEY SHOWED UP AT THE HANOI SUMMIT.

THAT WHOLE THING FELL APAERT THERE WAS NO DEAL TO BE HAD.

AND SINCE THEN, NORTH KOREA HAS BEEN JUST ADVANCING THEIR PROGRAM.

AND NOW, 2024 IS NOT 2017, WHERE HE PURSUED MAXIMUM PRESSURE POLICY.

IT'S NOT EVEN 2018 WITH SOME DIPLOMACY.

IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT ERA, DIFFERENT PERIOD.

EXTERNAL ENVIRONMENT NOW, THIS WHOLE GEOPOLITICAL ENVIRONMENT IS FAVORABLE FOR NORTH KOREA, BECAUSE CHINA, RUSSIA, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT HELPING UNITED STATES, CERTAINLY, CURB NORTH KOREA'S WMD PROGRAM.

AND RUSSIA, BY THE WAY, JUST EVEN RECENTLY, EVEN CHINA AND RUSSIA, THEY COULDN'T EVEN CONDEMN INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILE LAUNCH AT THE UNITED NATIONS.

SO, WE HAVE A COMPLETE IMPASSE AT THE UNITED NATIONS, AS WELL.

SO, THIS GEOPOLITICAL ENVIRONMENT IS VERY CONCERNING FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR ALL OF US, OBVIOUSLY.

>> SUE MI TERRY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR EXPERTISE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> TURNING NOW TO THE UNITED STATES, WHERE PEOPLE ARE CELEBRATING JUNETEENTH.

A DAY MARKING THE END OF SLAVERY.

AND WHILE IT'S ULTIMATELY A TIME OF CELEBRATION, IT ALSO GIVES US A CHANCE TO REFLECT ON THE ONGOING FIGHT FOR RACIAL JUSTICE AND EQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

CHRISTIANE SAT DOWN WITH ACCLAIMED CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND ACTIVIST BRYANT STEVENSON.

HE JOINED CHRISTIANE FROM MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA.

>> BRYANT, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> SO, ON THIS DAY, I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WHERE YOU ARE, BECAUSE YOU'VE CREATED A LOT OF IMPORTANT SPACE, PUBLIC MEMORIAL.

WHERE ARE YOU NOW?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> WELL, I'M IN MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA, AT THE ORIGINAL LEGACY MUSEUM, WHICH IS A SPACE WE CREATED IN 2018 TO HONOR AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY.

THIS SPACE I'M IN IS ON THE SITE OF A WAREHOUSE WHERE ENSLAVED PEOPLE WERE HELD BEFORE THEY WOULD BE TAKEN UP THE STREET AND SOLD IN AUCTIONS, AND I DO THINK IT'S BEEN GREAT TO HAVE JUNETEENTH HELP US BEGIN TO RECON WITH THIS LONG HISTORY THAT HAS SO PROFOUNDLY SHAPED AMERICA.

I SEE JUNETEENTH AS SITTING BETWEEN TWO OTHER AMERICANS HOLIDAYS, MEMORIAL DAY AND INDEPENDENCE DAY, AND FOR ME, JUNETEENTH IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REMEMBER AND HONOR THE 10 MILLION BLACK PEOPLE WHO WERE ENSLAVED IN THIS COUNTRY, BETWEEN 1619 AND 1865, AND TO ALSO CELEBRATE THE EMANCIPATION OF 4 MILLION PEOPLE WHO FINALLY WON FREEDOM FOLLOWING THE CIVIL WAR.

THERE'S SO MUCH WE HAVE TO RECKON WITH ABOUT THIS HISTORY, THAT WE REALLY HAVEN'T DONE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND SO, I'M THRILLED TO HAVE SPACES LIKE THIS TO HELP BEGIN THAT PROCESS.

>> AND JUST -- JUST TELL US, AND LAY IT OUT FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW, PARTICULARLY FOR OUR INTERNATIONAL AUDIENCE, WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF JUNETEENTH, AND THE FACT THAT ENSLAVED PEOPLE WERE STILL ENSLAVED, EVEN AFTER, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE -- THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR IN TEXAS.

>> SURE.

SO, IN 1863, ABRAHAM LINCOLN ANNOUNCED THE EMANCIPATION PROCK LA MAKE, THAT FREED SLAVES, BUT ONLY IN THE REBELLING STATES OF THE CONFEDERACY.

AND OF COURSE, BECAUSE THESE STATES WERE AT WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES, MOST OF THE 4 MILLION PEOPLE WHO WERE IMPACTED BY THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION DIDN'T ACTUALLY GET FREE.

THEY WERE BEHIND ENEMY LINES.

THEY WERE STILL CAPTIVE BY THOSE TRYING TO PRESERVE SLAVERY.

AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION SHOULD HAVE TAKEN EFFECT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

THE PASSAGE OF THE 13th AMENDMENT FURTHER CONFINED THAT, BUT THERE WERE STILL PLACES IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE ENSLAVERS REFUSED TO TELL ENSLAVED PEOPLE THAT THEY WERE FREE.

WHEN FEDERAL TROOPS GOT TO TEXAS, THE WORD FINALLY GOT OUT AND PEOPLE CELEBRATED THEIR FREEDOM, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS MONTHS AFTER THE WAR HAD ENDED, AND ALMOST TWO YEARS AFTER THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION HAD BEEN DECLARED.

THE TERM JUNETEENTH HAS BECOME A WAY TO CELEBRATE THAT DELAYED ANNOUNCEMENT OF FREEDOM.

AND I THINK IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, IT HAS BECOME A DAY OF REMEMBRANCE FOR EMANCIPATION, NOT JUST FOR THOSE THAT GOT THE WORD LATE IN TEXAS, BUT FOR ALL OF THE NEARLY 4 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN HELD IN BONDAGE, WHO HAD SUFFERED IN THESE FORCED LABOR CAMPS, WHO HAD BEEN CONSTRAINED AND ABUSED BY SLAVERY, TO NOW FINALLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE TOWARD SOMETHING THAT COULD BE IDENTIFIED AS FREEDOM.

>> AND, OF COURSE, IT WAS ONLY AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD THAT THE GOVERNMENT THEN FINALLY CREATED JUNETEENTH AS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY, RIGHT?

BUT I WANT TO BRING BACK, REFER BACK TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

YOU KNOW, YOU SEE IT IN THE PANTHEON OF GREAT AMERICAN NATIONAL HOLIDAYS.

CAN I JUST READ TO YOU WHAT JELANI COBB WROTE IN "THE NEW YORKER," HE'S THE DEAN OF THE COLUMBIA JOURNALISM SCHOOL.

HE WROTE, "JUNETEENTH EXISTS AS A COUNTERPOINT TO THE FOURTH OF JULY.

THE LATTER HERALDS THE ARRIVAL OF AMERICAN IDEALS, AND THE FORMER STRESSES JUST HOW HARD IT HAS BEEN TO LIVE UP TO THEM."

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

IS HE RIGHT AND THEREFORE, IS JUNETEENTH SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE?

OR STILL BE TROUBLED BY?

>> I ACTUALLY THINK IT IS A TIME TO REFLECT ON THE TRAGIC AND PAINFUL HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN AMERICA.

WE HAD 246 YEARS IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE WERE HELD IN BONDAGE.

THEY WERE SUBJECTED TO UNBELIEVABLE ABUSE AND DEGRADATION.

WE CREATED NARRATIVES ABOUT ENSLAVED BLACK PEOPLE, WHERE WE SAID THAT BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T AS GOOD AS WHITE PEOPLE.

WE CREATED A NARRATIVE OF RACIAL HIERARCHY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WAS DEFINED BY SLAVERY.

SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES WAS A PERMANENT HEREDITARY CONDITION.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING TO MOURN.

6 MILLION BLACK PEOPLE DIED ENSLAVED.

THEY NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE FREE LIKE OTHER IMMIGRANTS THAT CAME TO THIS COUNTRY.

THAT'S SOMETHING TO MOURN.

THE ABUSE, THE SELLING OF HALF OF ALL ENSLAVED PEOPLE FROM THEIR FAMILIES, THE SEXUAL VIOLENCE, THE HUMILIATION, THE HORRIFIC PHYSICAL VIOLENCE, ALL OF THAT IS SOMETHING TO MOURN.

BUT EMANCIPATION WAS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.

THAT 4 MILLION PEOPLE PERSEVERED, DESPITE THE HARDSHIP OF SLIFRY.

THAT 4 MILLION PEOPLE FOUND FAITH AND JOY IN THE MIDST OF SO MUCH AGONY IS AN INCREDIBLE LEGACY, AND THEN, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT ENSLAVED PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY LEARNED TO LOVE IN THE MIDST OF SORROW.

AND DESPITE THE HORRORS OF ENSLAVEMENT, CREATED GENERATIONS OF FAMILY AND KINSHIP.

I'M THE DESCENDANT OF ENSLAVED PEOPLE.

I WOULD NOT BE HERE IF MY GREAT-GRANDPARENTS HADN'T FOUND A WAY TO LOVE, DESPITE ALL OF THE HORRORS OF SLAVERY, AND CREATE A NEW GENERATION.

AND WE ARE THE HEIRS OF THAT TRAUMA AND ABUSE, BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE HEIRS OF PEOPLE WHO LEARNED TO PERSEVERE.

PEOPLE WHO WERE RESILIENT.

PEOPLE WHO FOUND A WAY TO RESIST.

PEOPLE WHO KNEW THEIR HUMANITY AND THEIR DIGNITY, DESPITE WHAT THE LAW SAID ABOUT THEM.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.

THE STRENGTH AND POWER OF ENSLAVED PEOPLE, I FEEL, EMPOWERS ME, ENERGIZES ME.

AND I THINK BOTH OF THOSE REALITIES CAN BE CONTAINED WITHIN THIS HOLIDAY.

THE GRIEF, THE MOURNING OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TREATED HORRIFICALLY, ABUSED AND DENIED FREEDOM.

BUT ALSO THE POWER, THE CAPACITY OF PEOPLE TO LOVE, DESPITE ALL OF THOSE HURDLES.

THAT'S SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.

>> SO, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MORE HURDLES THAT SEEM TO BE, I MEAN, JUST RUSHING TO GET PUT UP.

BY THE SUPREME COURT VOTES, BY, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

SO, IF CONGRESS WON'T PASS VOTING RIGHTS LEGISLATION, SUPREME COURT WON'T UPHOLD CURRENT LAWS, OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S BEEN PROGRESS, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE SO MUCH PUSH-BACK.

>> NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF A REALLY IMPORTANT NARRATIVE STRUGGLE IN THE UNITED STATES, FOR WHAT IT MEANS TO ACTUALLY ACHIEVE FREEDOM.

AND I DO THINK THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT.

AFTER EMANCIPATION, OUR CONGRESS PASSED THE 14th AMENDMENT, WHICH GUARANTEED EQUAL PROTECTION TO FORMERLY ENSLAVED PEOPLE.

THEY PASSED THE 15th AMENDMENT WHICH GUARANTEED THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

BUT THOSE RIGHTS WERE NOT ENFORCED, BECAUSE WE WERE MORE COMMITTED IN AMERICA TO MAINTAINING RACIAL HIERARCHY, TO MAINTAINING WHITE SUPREMACY, THAN ENFORCING THE RULE OF LAW.

AND SO, WE'VE KNOWN FOR A VERY LONG TIME THAT LAW ALONE WILL NOT ACHIEVE THE KIND OF JUSTICE, THE KIND OF EQUALITY THAT WE SEEK IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT TOOK 100 YEARS.

BETWEEN THE LATE 1860s, UNTIL THAT HORRIFIC AND CHALLENGING, BUT TRIUMPHANT STRUGGLE IN THE 1960s TO CREATE A VOTING RIGHTS ACT, ANOTHER LAW DESIGNED TO ENFORCE THESE RIGHTS.

BUT THE NARRATIVE OF MAINTAINING RACIAL HIERARCHY, IT WAS STILL WITH US.

THOUGH WE PASSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS IN 1965 AND THE VOTING RIGHTS LAWS, THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT RESISTED AND REJECTED THE IDEA THAT BLACK PEOPLE SHOULD BE EQUAL TO WHITE PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THE GREAT CHALLENGE WE FACE IN THIS COUNTRY IS A NARRATIVE CHALLENGE.

YES, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE RULE OF LAW, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THESE IDEAS WE HAVE INHERITED, THAT SOMEHOW BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS WHITE PEOPLE.

THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS CAPABLE, LESS WORTHY, LESS TRUSTWORTHY.

AND THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL CHALLENGE THAT I BELIEVE WE HAVE TO APPROACH.

WE NEVER REALLY HAD THE TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE THAT OTHER COUNTRIES THAT DEAL WITH HORRIFIC HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES HAVE HAD.

IN SOUTH AFRICA, THERE WAS A PROCESS OF TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION AFTER APARTHEID COLLAPSED.

THEY GAVE VOICE TO THE VICTIMS OF APARTHEID, TO SPEAK TO THEIR HARM AND INJURIES, AND THE PERPETRATORS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE VOICE TO THEIR WRONG DOING.

IN BERLIN, IN GERMANY, YOU SEE A COUNTRY AND A CITY THAT ENGAGED IN TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE.

NOW IN BERLIN, YOU CAN'T GO 200 METERS WITHOUT SEEING MARKERS AND STONES PLACED NEXT TO THE HOMES OF PEOPLE THAT WERE KILLED DURING THE HOLOCAUST.

THERE'S A LANDSCAPE THAT IS TRYING TO RECKON WITH THE HORRORS OF THAT.

EVERY STUDENT IN GERMANY IS REQUIRED TO STUDY THE HOLOCAUST.

YOU CAN'T GRADUATE WITHOUT THAT.

BUT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE STATES PASSING LAWS TRYING TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL, IMPERMISSIBLE, FOR PEOPLE TO STUDY THESE HISTORIES.

AND THAT JUST SPEAKS TO THE CHALLENGE THAT WE FACE.

AND SO, WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, WHICH IS WHY I AM PERSUADED THAT WE NEED AN ERA OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE, TRUTH AND REPAIR, TRUTH AND RESTORE RATION, TRUTH-TELLING ABOUT THIS HISTORY.

>> AND ALSO, ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR.

DONALD TRUMP IS DESPERATELY TRYING TO COURT THE BLACK VOTE, AND HE KEEPS SAYING THAT HE WAS AND HE WILL BE MUCH BETTER FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS THAN BIDEN.

BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS GOT 92% OF THE BLACK VOTE NATIONALLY BACK IN 2020, BUT AS YOU KNOW, THESE FIGURES HAVE BEEN SLIPPING DRAMATICALLY.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

TALKING ABOUT THE NARRATIVE.

>> YEAH.

WELL, I'M NOT SURE I EMBRACE THAT FRAMING, BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW -- IF A CANDIDATE GETS 92% OF THE BLACK VOTE, A WHOLE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS MUCH MORE DIVERSE THAN IT'S EVER BEEN IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY.

WE HAVE BLACK IMMIGRANTS FROM AFRICA, WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM THE WEST INDIES, WE HAVE PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT ECONOMIC SITUATIONS.

SO, IF A CANDIDATE GETS 92% OF THAT VOTE, YOU'D HAVE TO SAY THAT CANDIDATE IS DOING VERY WELL WITH THAT COMMUNITY.

I CAN'T THINK OF A WHITE CANDIDATE THAT COULD CLAIM THAT KIND OF SUCCESS WITH ANY OTHER COMMUNITY, ETHNIC COMMUNITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

THERE IS SHIFTING, BECAUSE I THINK THE COMMUNITY IS SHIFTING.

WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN WHO ARE AFFLUENT.

BUT I'M STILL ACTUALLY PRETTY AMAZED THAT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY STILL VOTES WITH LARGELY ONE VOICE.

THERE IS AN ALIGNMENT WITH THE VALUES AND THE NORMS THAT EMPHASIZE EQUALITY AND FREEDOM AND OPPORTUNITY.

THERE IS STILL A REALLY POWERFUL INSTINCT IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY IN THIS COUNTRY TO HELP THE POOR.

TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE MARGINALIZED, TO RESPOND TO THE -- TO THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE WHEN WE THROW PEOPLE AWAY.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE REALLY OVERWHELMING MARRIVE.

THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT.

AND I THINK WHAT ANY CANDIDATE HAS TO DO TO MAINTAIN SUPPORT, TO GET SUPPORT FROM THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, AND, AGAIN, IT'S NOT A SINGLE PERSPECTIVE, IS TO REINFORCE THESE VALUES AND NORMS THAT WE TALK SO MUCH ABOUT.

WE'RE STILL NOT FREE YET.

THERE'S A PRESUMPTION OF GUILT THAT GETS ASSIGNED TO BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE, AND IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW WEALTHY YOU ARE, HOW KIND YOU ARE, HOW TALENTED YOU ARE, YOU CAN GO TO PLACES WHERE YOU HAVE TO NAVIGATE DANGEROUSNESS AND GUILT.

AND OUR POLITICAL AND ELECTED OFFICIALS NEED TO HELP US ERADICATE, ELIMINATE THAT BURDEN, BECAUSE IT'S UNFAIR.

I'M A LAWYER, I'M A MIDDLE AGED BLACK MAN, I'VE GOT ALL OF THESE DEGREES, I'VE WON CASES AT THE SUPREME COURT, AND I STILL GO TO PLACES WHERE I'M VIEWED AS LESS THAN, WHERE I'M PRESUMED TO BE THE DEFENDANT, OR PRESUMED TO BE DANGEROUS, JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY I APPEAR.

AND THAT'S A HEAVIED BURDEN, I CAN TELL YOU, BECAUSE I'M GETTING OLDER, WHEN YOU'RE CONSTANT LIP NAVIGATING THESE PRESUMPTIONS OF DANGEROUSNESS AND GUILT, IT'S EXHAUSTING.

AND WE WANT SOMETHING BETTER.

AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT FEELS MORE LIKE FREEDOM, MORE LIKE EQUALITY, MORE LIKE JUSTICE, AND I THINK IT'S WAITING FOR US.

AND SO, WE WANT CANDIDATES THAT ARE GOING TO HELP US ADVANCE THAT.

AND TO BE HONEST, I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH, FRANKLY, FROM -- FROM DONALD TRUMP, AND MANY OTHERS IN THAT CAMP, THAT SPEAKS TO THAT HISTORY.

SO, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE ELECTION, BUT I FRANKLY THINK WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CRITICAL ISSUES IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I DON'T SEE THE DYNAMIC AROUND WHO CHAMPIONS THOSE ISSUES SHIFTING VERY MUCH OVER THE NEXT SIX MONTHS.

>> AND JUST A FINAL PERSONAL QUESTION, YOU MENTIONED YOU'RE A LAWYER.

AND YOU'VE DONE SO MUCH IN THIS LEGAL FIELD.

YOU'VE ALWAYS, SINCE 2018, STEPPED OUT INTO THE PUBLIC ART AND PUBLIC MEMORIAL SPACE.

WHAT HAS INSPIRED YOU TO DO THAT?

DO YOU THINK YOU NOW CAN ACCOMPLISH MORE, DOING THAT KIND OF THING, THAN, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO LITIGATE IN THE COURTS?

>> YEAH, I DEFINITELY NOW BELIEVE THAT IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE BOTH.

ACTIVITY IN THE LAW, I STILL BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW AND ADVANCING THE RULE OF LAW, CREATING RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DISFAVORED AND MARGINALIZED.

I'M A PRODUCT OF BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION, THE SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT STRUCK DOWN SEGREGATION IN EDUCATION.

BUT I HAVE BECOME WORRIED THAT WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO WIN BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION TODAY.

BECAUSE THIS NARRATIVE HAS EMERGED THAT EQUALITY ISN'T -- ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT.

ELIMINATING RACIAL BIAS AND ADDRESSING THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE ARTS AND TRUTH-TELLING, HAS BECOME SO IMPORTANT.

THAT'S WHY WE'VE CREATED THESE LEGACY SITES, THE LEGACY MUSEUM, THE NATIONAL MEMORIAL FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE, WHICH DOCUMENTS THE LYNCHING OF THOUSANDS OF BLACK PEOPLE WHO WERE PULLED OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND TORTURED AND BEATEN AND KILLED.

OUR NEW FREEDOM MONUMENT SCULPTURE PARK, WHICH TRIES TO ADDRESS THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY.

THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT TO ME NOW, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE THAT NARRATIVE WORK TO MOVE US FORWARD.

WHEN YOU'RE ENSLAVED, YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON FREEDOM.

YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON EMANCIPATION.

WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH LYNCHING, YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON SECURITY.

WHEN YOU'RE DISENFRANCHISED AND EXCLUDED, YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON CIVIL RIGHTS.

NOW IN THE 21st CENTURY, I THINK WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON THIS NARRATIVE STRUGGLE, LIFTING UP THESE IDEAS OF EQUALITY AND FREEDOM AND MAKING THEM MEANINGFUL TO EVERYONE.

PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS IDEA THAT THIS HIERARCHY AND STRATIFICATION HAS ANY PLACE IN A SOCIETY THAT CLAIMS TO BE THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.

AND I'M HOPING THESE SITES CAN PLAY A CRITICAL ROLE IN THAT.

AND, YOU KNOW, AS THE GREAT-GRANDSON OF PEOPLE THAT WERE ENSLAVED, MY GREAT-GRANDFATHER WAS ENSLAVED IN VIRGINIA.

THERE WERE ANTI-LITERACY LAWS THAT PREVENTED HIM FROM LEARNING TO READ OR WRITE.

HE LEARNED TO READ OR WRITE, AND WHEN EMANCIPATION CAME, HE READ THE NEWSPAPER TO PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO READ.

HE TAUGHT MY GRANDMOTHER, WHO WORKED AS A DOMESTIC HER WHOLE LIFE, TO VALUE READING AND EDUCATION, SHE GAVE THAT TO MY MOTHER, WE GREW UP POOR, IN A RACIALLY SEGREGATED COMMUNITY, BUT OUR MOM BOUGHT US BOOKS TO SEE A BIGGER WORLD.

AND I'M THE HEIR OF A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE, PUSHING PAST THESE THINGS, AND WHETHER THAT'S IN COURT, WITH THE LAW, OR IN THESE NARRATIVE SPACES, I THINK THE GOAL IS THE SAME.

WHICH IS TO LET TRUTH AND JUSTICE REALLY FINALLY BE SEEN IN THIS COUNTRY.

BECAUSE I THINK IT'S THE PATH TO LIBERATION, THE KIND OF SOCIETY MOST OF US WANT TO LIVE IN.

>> BRYANT STEVENSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US FOR JUNETEENTH.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>>> AND A LAST NOTE ON BRYANT STEVENSON'S FOCUS ON HISTORICAL NARRATIVE.

THE EQUAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE'S LEGACY SITES PROJECT CONTINUES TO GROW.

WITH THE OPENING OF THE FREEDOM MONUMENT SCULPTURE PARK OPENING IN MONTGOMERY THIS SPRING.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURE THROUGH FOOD.

BRYANT TERRY IS AN AWARD-WINNING VEGAN CHEF AND AUTHOR OF SIX BOOKS.

IN HONOR OF JUNETEENTH, HE JOINED MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE EVOLUTION OF HIS ANCESTOR'S QUESTION SEEN THROUGH THE LENS OF MIGRATION, IDENTITY, AND RESILIENCE.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

BRYANT TERRY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON, MICHEL.

GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU.

YOU ARE AN AWARD-WINNING CHEF, AUTHOR, COOKBOOK AUTHOR, YOU KNOW, ACTIVIST, AND ONE OF YOUR SIGNATURES IS TO KIND OF CONNECT FOOD, NOT JUST WITH HEALTH AND WITH ENJOYMENT, BUT WITH THE CULTURE.

JUNETEENTH CELEBRATES THE END OF SLAVERY, AND MORE BROADLY, KIND OF AFRICAN AMERICAN RESILIENCE AND RESISTANCE.

HOW DO YOU THINK FOOD FITS INTO THAT?

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, AS YOU MENTIONED, WE KNOW THAT JUNETEENTH COMMEMORATES THE ENDING OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES, AND IT HAS A SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC CONTEXT IN TEXAS, BUT IT'S MOVED BEYOND THERE, AND SINCE IT'S A NATIONAL HOLIDAY NOW, IT HAS EVOLVED INTO A DAY OF REFLECTION, CELEBRATION, AND EDUCATION ABOUT BLACK HISTORY AND CULTURE, AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE WORK THAT I DO AROUND FOOD AND FARMING ISSUES, AND BECAUSE I JUST LOVE TO EAT, I'M ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT DIFFERENT CULTURAL HOLIDAYS, OUR CULTURE HOLIDAYS, THROUGH THE LENS OF FOOD.

AND WE KNOW THAT FOOD HAS ALWAYS PLAYED A CENTRAL ROLE IN COMMUNITY BUILDING AND SURVIVAL IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

WE CAN GO BACK TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, WE THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF THE RESTAURANTS AND HOME COOKS WHO SUPPORTED BLACK ACTIVISTS, IN FACT, SO MANY OF -- SO MUCH OF THE STRATEGIZING, THE ORGANIZING HAPPENED IN HOME KITCHENS.

WE THINK ABOUT SOMEONE LIKE FANNY LOU HAMER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T AWARE THAT SHE STARTED THE FREEDOM FARM IN MICHIGAN, WHICH HAD OVER 600 ACRES OF LAND, THEY HAD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ACRES AND ACRES OF FARMLAND, AND EDUCATIONAL WORKSHOPS TO EMPOWER THE COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, BUT -- I WANT TO JUST MENTION ONE OF MY BIGGEST INSPIRATIONS, AND THAT WAS THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY FOR SELF-DEFENSE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHILE THE POPULAR MEDIA OFTEN PAINTS THEM AS KIND OF ANGRY MILITANTS, THEY HAD A NUMBER OF MEANINGFUL AND POWERFUL PROGRAMS THAT WERE AIMED AT MEETING THE BASIC NEEDS AND COMMUNITIES, AND A NUMBER OF THEM LOOKED AT HEALTH.

SPECIFICALLY FOOD.

THEIR GROCERY GIVEAWAYS, AND THEIR FREE BREAKFAST FOR CHILDREN PROGRAM, IN WHICH THEY WERE FEEDING CHILDREN HOT BREAKFASTS EVERY SINGLE MORNING.

SO, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE THINGS THAT PREDATE THE TYPE OF ACTIVISM THAT I CURRENTLY DO AROUND THESE ISSUES, IT ONLY MAKES SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE THINK ABOUT JUNETEENTH AND JUST ALL THE CONNECTIONS WITH THE KIND OF TRANSFER OF INGREDIENTS FROM THE AFRICAN CONTINENT TO THE NEW WORLD, AS WELL AS COOKING TECHNIQUES -- SO, I USE IT AS A TIME TO CELEBRATE FOOD.

>> YOU KNOW, PEOPLE OFTEN THINK OF AFRICAN AMERICAN CUISINE, OR TRADITIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN CUISINE AS SLAVE FOOD, RIGHT?

WHAT WAS CREATED FROM THE REMNANTS, THE LEFTOVER, THE LEAST DESIRABLE PORTIONS, AS IT WERE.

YOU REALLY -- TALK ABOUT RESISTANCE, YOU REALLY RESIST THAT NARRATIVE.

YOU WANT TO SAY MORE ABOUT THAT, WHY YOU THINK THAT'S NOT REALLY QUITE RIGHT, AND WHY YOU PUSH HARD AGAINST THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK, IN GENERAL, AND THE POPULAR IMAGINATION, THERE ARE THESE WAYS WE THINK ABOUT BLACK FOOD, SPECIFICALLY FOOD IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND SO, AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE ARE KIND OF THESE TWO STRAINS THAT I'VE SEEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT.

THEY EITHER TALK ABOUT THE ANTEBELLUM SURVIVAL FOOD, WHERE MANY ENSLAVED AFRICANS RELIED, AND PEOPLE OFTEN TALK DISPARAGINGLY ABOUT THAT FOOD.

AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE ARE -- THIS KIND OF HISTORY OF OFTEN PLANTATION OWNERS GIVING ENSLAVED AFRICANS THE WORST PARTS OF THE ANIMALS, THE DISCARDED PARTS OF THE VEGETABLE, AND ONE, YOU KNOW, LET'S NOT MENTION THE FACT THAT THERE WERE FREED BLACK PEOPLE, EVERY BLACK PERSON IN THE UNITED STATES, A PERSON OF AFRICAN DECENT, WASN'T ENSLAVED, BUT THE OTHER THING IS, THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY WASN'T A MONOLITH.

SO, MAYBE IN THE DEEP SOUTH, THE BLACK BELT, IT WAS MORE OF A PATERNALISTIC SYSTEM IN WHICH EVERY YEAR OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS WAS PROVIDED BY PLANTATION OWNERS, BUT THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY LOOKED DIFFERENT.

THE WAY THAT ENSLAVED AFRICANS MIGHT GROW FOOD, COOK IT AND EAT IT IN THE COASTAL CAROLINAS LOOKED DIFFERENT THAN IT DID IN MISSISSIPPI, ALABAMA, AND TENNESSEE.

AND THAT LOOKED DIFFERENT THAN IT DID IN LOUISIANA, THAN IT DID IN BRAZIL.

AND SO, TO REDUCE IT TO JUST SLAVE FOODS ERASES THIS HISTORY OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS MAYBE HAVING A GARDEN IN WHICH THEY COULD GROW THEIR OWN FOOD FOR THEIR FAMILIES OR HAVING A DAY OFF WHERE THEY COULD HUNT FOR PROTEIN.

BUT THE OTHER STRAND THAT I SEE ARE THE KIND OF BIG FLAVORED MEATS THAT WE MIGHT FIND IN A SOUL FOOD RESTAURANT, OR THE SUGARY DESSERTS OR OVERCOOKED VEGETABLES.

I'M NOT DENYING ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

CHITLINS AND MACARONI AND CHEESE, ALL THESE THINGS ARE PART OF THIS VERY DIVERSE CUISINE THAT WE HAVE, BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE TYPE OF FOOD THAT MY GRANDFATHER AND HIS PARENTS AND, YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF OUR ANCESTORS, THEY WERE GROWING AND EATING THINGS LIKE NUTRIENT-RICH COLLARDS, KALE, BEANS, SWEET POTATOES, BLACK EYED PEAS.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF FOODS THAT ANY WESTERN-TRAINED PHYSICIAN OR DIETITIAN OR NUTRITIONIST WOULD SAY, WE SHOULD ALL EAT.

AND SO, I SIMPLY WANT TO UPLIFT AND HIGHLIGHT THOSE FOODS THAT ARE PART OF OUR TRA SITUATION SO WE HAVE A MORE WHOLISTIC UNDERSTANDING OF THE TYPE OF FOODS THAT WE'VE GROWN AND EATEN HISTORICALLY.

>> HOW DID IT START FOR YOU?

>> WELL, I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE PERIOD WHEN I -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS STEREOTYPE, I'M SURE YOU'VE KIND OF HEARD OR SEEN THE STEREOTYPE OF THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS, DOGMATIC, THE PEOPLE WAGGING THE FINGER AT YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT EATING A VEGAN DIET.

SO, THAT WAS ME IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE POWERFUL THINGS THAT REALLY HELPED TRANSFORM MY HABITS AND ATTITUDES IN POLITICS REGARDING FOOD WAS A HIP HOP SONG.

THE SONG "BEEF" BY THE HIP HOP GROUP BOOGIE DOWN PRODUCTIONS.

♪ BEEF ♪ ♪ WHAT A RELIEF ♪ ♪ WHEN WILL THIS POISONOUS PRODUCT CEASE ♪ ♪ THIS IS ANOTHER PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ♪ ♪ YOU CAN BELIEVE IT ♪ ♪ OR YOU CAN DOUBT IT ♪ ♪ LET US AGAIN NOW WITH THE COW ♪ >> IT JUST REALLY BLEW ME AWAY, AND JUST TRANSFORMED EVERYTHING FOR ME, BECAUSE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT FACTORY FARMING.

I HAD NO IDEA THAT ANIMALS IN OUR INDUSTRIALIZED FOOD SYSTEM HAD TO ENDURE SO MUCH VIOLENCE.

IT HAD SUCH AN IMPACT ON ME.

AND, THE THING IS, I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT JUST THAT KIND OF ABRASIVE PERIOD THAT I WENT THROUGH, AND I THINK IT'S JUST NATURAL FOR A YOUNG PERSON TO HAVE A SHIFT IN WORLD VIEW, AND TO FEEL VERY ZEALOUS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CHANGE THE WORLD.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHAT I'VE SEEN IS THAT RATHER THAN PROSTLY TIZING, THE WAY I'VE ENGAGED PEOPLE IS DOING PRACTICAL THINGS, TEACHING PEOPLE COOKING SKILLS, WRITING COOKBOOKS, PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH DELICIOUS FOOD, AND THEN, THAT IS SUCH A POWERFUL WAY TO KIND OF TRANSFORM PEOPLE'S HEARTS, MINDS, AND SPIRITS.

>> WHAT MADE YOU BECOME A CHEF?

>> IT WAS REALLY THE POLITICS OF FOOD THAT MOVED ME TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, JUST GOING TO CULINARY SCHOOL AND THINKING ABOUT USING FOOD AS A KIND OF TRANSFORMATIVE TOOL AND IT STARTED WHEN I WAS A DOCTORAL STUDENT IN HISTORY AT NYU WHEN I WAS DOINGER ARE SEARCH ON THE BLACK PANTHERS.

THEY WERE DOING ALL THESE PROGRAMS AROUND HEALTH, DOING TESTING FOR SICKLE CELL ANEMIA, BUT THE ONE THAT TRANSFORMED ME THE MOST WAS THE FREE BREAKFAST FOR CHILDREN PROGRAM.

THIS WAS STARTED IN 1969, AND BY THE END OF THE YEAR, IT HAD SPREAD TO EVERY MAJOR CITY THAT HAD A BLACK PANTHER CHAPTER, AND THEY WERE FEEDING 10,000 CHILDREN EVERY SINGLE DAY.

AND I JUST REMEMBER THIS KIND OF, LIKE, MOMENT OF CLARITY, I WAS ON THE SUBWAY ONE MORNING GOING TO THE VILLAGE TO TEACH A CLASS, AND I SAW THESE KIDS ON THE SUBWAY EATING RED HOT CHEETOS AND CANDY BARS AND SUGARY DOUGHNUTS AND DRINKING SODAS, AND ENERGY DRINKS, AND I REALIZED THAT THESE KIDS, AS MY MENTOR RAJ PATEL WOULD SAY, THEY ARE BEING STUFFED AND STARVED.

THEY ARE EATING EMPTY CALORIES.

WE NEEDED THE SPIRIT OF THE ACTIVISM FROM THE '60s.

I WANTED TO MAKE AN INTERVENTION.

BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO JUST, YOU KNOW, BE IN THE REALM OF, LIKE, IDEAS AND POLITICS.

I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT FELT PRACTICAL, THAT FELT LIKE IT WAS GIVING YOUNG PEOPLE SKILLS, AND SO, I STARTED AN ORGANIZATION, BE HEALTHY, THAT USED COOKING AS A WAY TO WAKE UP THESE YOUNG PEOPLE TO THE REALITIES OF OUR FOOD SYSTEM, BUT ALSO, GIVE THEM THE SKILLS SO THAT WHEN THEY WERE ADULTS, THEY COULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE MEALS FOR THEMSELVES, GO SHOPPING, PREPARE THE FOOD, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, REALLY HAVE THIS KIND OF SUSTENANCE-BASED APPROACH TO TAKING CARE OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.

>> HAVE YOU SEEN A CHANGE OVER THE TIME, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN WORKING AS A CHEF AND ALSO AS A COOKBOOK AUTHOR, HAVE YOU SEEN A CHANGE?

I KNOW, LIKE, THINKING ABOUT -- ONE OF YOUR FIRST BOOKS, "AFRO-VEGAN," YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SURPRISED THAT SOMEONE LIKE YOU EVEN EXISTS.

>> THAT BOOK WAS PUBLISHED A DECK CAUSE AGO.

WE JUST CELEBRATED THE TEN-YEAR ANNIVERSARY.

AND IT'S BEEN SO ENCOURAGING, I HAVE TO SAY, TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE, I'LL SAY OPEN TO EATING MORE PLANT-BASED FOODS.

EVEN PEOPLE WHO AREN'T NECESSARILY TRYING TO EMBRACE A FULL-ON VEGAN OR PLANT-BASED DIET.

I'VE SEEN PEOPLE ARE OPEN TO DOING MEATLESS MONDAYS, OR OPEN TO DOING ONE MEAL A DAY THAT HAS JUST, YOU KNOW, A VEGAN MEAL, WITH NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS.

AND WHAT THAT SAYS TO ME IS THAT MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE -- I MEAN, LOOK, THE DATA IS OUT.

WE KNOW THAT HAVING A MORE PLANT-CENTERED DIET, IT'S -- MORE NUTRIENT-DENSE, IT TENDS TO BE MORE HELPFUL, AND PEOPLE JUST FEEL LIGHTER.

AND YOU'VE SEEN ME ON THIS JOURNEY FOR A DECADE, AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THAT HAS BEEN MY APPROACH.

YOU CAN START WITH THE HEADY, INTELLECTUAL IDEAS OR THE POLITICS, BUT A LOT OF TIMES, WHEN YOU START THERE, PEOPLE RUN AWAY, BUT MY APPROACH HAS BEEN STARTING WITH THE FOOD.

BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE THESE NEGATIVE PERCEPTIONS OF WHAT PLANT-BASED CUISINE IS, AND WHAT I'VE SEEN IS, WHEN YOU SERVE PEOPLE DELICIOUS FOOD THAT'S DEVOID OF ANIMAL PRODUCTS, THEY ARE OFTEN SURPRISED, AND IT MAKES THEM MORE OPEN TO EATING THIS TYPE OF FOOD.

I WILL SAY THAT ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN A LITTLE FRUSTRATING TO ME IS THAT IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, SPENDING THEIR DOLLARS IN ALIGNMENT WITH THEIR VALUES IS ENOUGH.

YOU KNOW, IF I JUST GO TO THE BIG CORPORATE MARKET AND I BUY ALL THIS, YOU KNOW, VEGAN AND ORGANIC FOOD, THEN I'M DOING MY JOB.

AND I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT TO SPEND OUR DOLLARS IN ALIGNMENT WITH OUR VALUES, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE LARGER STRUCTURAL REASONS THAT MANY COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTHY, FRESH FOOD.

THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO SUPERMARKETS, SO, I ALWAYS ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT, WELL, HOW CAN YOU GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR COMMUNITY TO ENSURE THAT EVERYONE HAS A HUMAN RIGHT TO HEALTHY, FRESH, AFFORDABLE, AND, YOU KNOW, PLANT-CENTERED FOOD?

>> DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE MAKING HEADWAY?

>> OH, FOR SURE.

I -- YOU KNOW THE THING THAT LETS ME KNOW THAT I'M MAKING HEADWAY IS THIS GENERATION OF YOUNG COOKBOOK AUTHORS AND CHEFS AND FOOD JUSTICE ACTIVISTS WHO ARE IN THE STREETS DOING IT BIG.

I TURNED 50 THIS YEAR.

I'M AN OLD MAN NOW.

AND JUST AS I'M STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF SO MANY OF MY ANCESTORS WHO COME BEFORE ME, ACTIVISTS LIKE DICK GREGORY, OR THE, YOU KNOW, MC KARA IS ONE, VERTA MAE SMART GROSSER.

I HOPE MANY SEE THEMSELVES STANDING ON MY SHOULDERS, AND I IMAGINE THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS SO MUCH FURTHER THAN I COULD IMAGINE.

SO, I'M HOPEFUL.

I'M SO HOPEFUL.

>> ONE OF YOUR LATEST BOOKS, YOUR 2021 BOOK, WON A BUNCH OF AWARDS, IT WAS HAILED AT ONE OF THE MOST CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED AMERICAN COOKBOOKS THAT YEAR.

ARE THERE ONE OR TWO STORIES OR ESSAYS THAT REALLY STAND OUT TO YOU, OR RECIPES, FOR THAT MATTER, THAT REALLY STANDS OUT TO YOU?

>> WE PUT THAT BOOK TOGETHER IN NINE MONTHS, AND WE STARTED WORKING ON IT IN 2020, WHEN THE U.S. WAS KIND OF RECKONING WITH THE WAYS IN WHICH WE'VE TREATED AFRICAN AMERICANS HISTORICALLY AND CONTEMPORANEOUSLY.

I SAW AN ANTHOLOGY, LIKE BLACK FOOD THAT BROUGHT TOGETHER SCHOLARS AND CHEFS AND ARTISTS AND ACTIVISTS FROM AROUND THE GLOBE, AS SOMETHING THAT I DO LATER IN MY CAREER.

BUT IN THAT MOMENT, I REALIZED THAT THERE WAS A SENSE OF URGENCY TO DO IT THEN, BECAUSE IT WAS REVEALED -- THERE WAS A LOT OF RACISM WITHIN THE PUBLISHING INDUSTRY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LOT OF HIGHLIGHTING OF THE WAYS IN WHICH AUTHORS OF COLOR AND BLACK AUTHORS WERE HAVING A HARDER TIME GETTING THEIR WORK PUBLISHED.

SO, I JUST FELT LIKE THIS WAS THE MOMENT, AND I REACHED OUT TO FRIENDS AROUND THE GLOBE TO BE APART OF THIS BOOK, AND I COULDN'T BE MORE PROUD.

MY FAVORITE ASPECT OF THE BOOK IS THE ARTWORK.

EVERY CHAPTER STARTS WITH A PIECE OF ART THAT I GOT PERMISSION OR EITHER HAD ARTISTS KIND OF CREATE ORIGINAL PIECE THAT REALLY ENCAPSULATED THE IDEAS AND THE CONTENT WITHIN.

AND, YOU KNOW, I -- I JUST -- AS AN EDUCATOR, I'M ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT THE MULTIPLE WAYS THAT PEOPLE LEARN.

SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FORMALLY EDUCATED, THEY CAN DUG DEEPLY INTO, YOU KNOW, A HEADY, INTELLECTUAL ESSAY, BUT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE MORE MOVED BY AN IMAGE THAT REALLY JUST SPEAKS TO, YOU KNOW, THESE ISSUES THAT WE'RE COVERING.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE MOVED BY THE POETRY IN THE BOOK.

OTHERS ARE JUST GOING TO SEE IT KITCHEN.

SO, WHEN I WROTE THE BOOK, WHEN I CONCEIVED OF IT, I SAID, I WANT THIS TO BE A BOOK THAT MOVED FROM ONE'S KITCHEN TO THEIR NIGHT STAND TO THEIR COFFEE TABLE.

AND THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN SO TREMENDOUS, AND, YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE, WHAT, THREE YEARS LATER, AFTER THE BOOK PUBLISHED, AND WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT, AND I HOPE WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT 30 YEARS FROM NOW.

>> OKAY, WELL, FOR THE MOMENT, THOUGH, SOME PEOPLE DO WANT THOSE RECIPES.

SO, WHILE PEOPLE ARE PLANNING THEIR JUNETEENTH GET-TOGETHERS, WHAT -- WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?

ANY RECOMMENDATIONS?

>> OH, MY GOSH.

MY FAVORITE RECIPE IN THE BOOK IS THIS BLUEBERRY VEGAN CHEESECAKE BY THIS BRILLIANT PASTRY CHEF, MALCOLM LIVINGSTON.

AND TO BE CLEAR, THIS RECIPE, THIS COOK BOOK HAS, YOU KNOW, DOZENS OF RECIPES, BUT THEY AREN'T ALL VEGAN.

AND IT WAS A DECISION I HAD TO MAKE AS AN EDITOR TO REALLY GIVE THE CONTRIBUTORS A SPACE TO, YOU KNOW, WRITE OR CONTRIBUTE THE RECIPE THAT MADE SENSE FOR THEM, OR TOLD THEIR FAMILY'S STORY.

I LOVE NICOLE TAYLOR, A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, WHO ACTUALLY HAS A BOOK ABOUT JUNETEENTH THAT'S BRILLIANT, "WATERMELON AND RED BIRDS," SHE DOES THIS COCOA-BASED FISH RECIPE, AND PEOPLE WOULD THINK, COCOA AND FISH?

BUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT AND SCRUMPTIOUS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD DRINK RECIPES.

TONY TIPTON MARTIN DOES A RECIPE, I THINK IT'S A WHISKEY SOUR.

SO, THERE ARE JUST SO MANY GREAT RECIPES IN THERE, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN TERMS OF MENU-PLANNING FOR JUNETEENTH OR OTHERWISE, THIS IS A POWERFUL RESOURCE.

>> THIS WILL HELP YOU OUT.

ALL RIGHT, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, I HAVE TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT.

WHAT IS YOUR CELEBRATION FOOD?

WHAT IS YOUR KIND OF GO-TO FOR A GET-TOGETHER DAY LIKE JUNETEENTH?

>> IF I HAVE TO MAKE A DISH, IF IT'S ONE THING THAT'S EMBLEMATIC OF MY LOVE, IT'S BLACK EYED PEAS, RICE, RICH TOMATO SAUCE.

THAT'S HANDS DOWN MY FAVORITE DISH.

>> THAT'S GOT TO BE THERE.

ALL RIGHT.

BRYANT TERRY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US, AND HAPPY JUNETEENTH.

>> HAPPY JUNETEENTH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> AND FINALLY, WE REMEMBER A GIANT IN MORE THAN ONE WAY.

WILLIE MAYS HAS DIED AT 93 YEARS OLD.

KNOWN AS THE SAY HEY KID, FOR THE WAY HE ENTHUSIASTICALLY GREETED OTHERS, HE WAS AMONG THE FIRST GENERATION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.

HE DOMINATED THE GAME FOR DECADES, PLAYING 23 SEASONS, MOSTLY FOR THE NEW YORK, THEN SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS.

HIS FAMOUS OVER THE SHOULDER CATCH DURING THE WORLD SERIES IN 1954 REMANES ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC MOMENTS EVER SEEN IN BASEBALL.

FINISHING WITH 660 CAREER HOME RUNS, AND WINNING 12 GOLD GLOVE AWARDS, HE WAS A FORCE BOTH AT BAT AND IN THE FIELD.

HERE HE TELLS LARRY KING HOW HE OVERCAME PREJUDICE WITH HIS TALENT FOR THE GAME.

>> ONLY TIME I HAD A PROBLEM WAS HAGERSTOWN, MARYLAND, I HAD A VERY, VERY -- ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON, THEY CALLED ME ALL KINDS OF NAMES THERE.

BUT BY SUNDAY, THEY WAS ALL CLAPPING.

>> HIS LEGACY ON AND OFF THE FIELD ENSPIRED GENERATIONS AND WILL CONTINUE TO.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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