June 27, 2024

♪♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

FRANCE GEARS UP FOR MACRON'S BIG GAMBLE, BAITING THE FAR RIGHT AT THIS WEEKEND'S SNAP ELECTIONS.

I SPEAK TO FINANCIAL TIMES COLUMNIST SIMON KUPER.

>>> PLUS, THE LATEST EARTH-SHAKING DECISIONS FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

>>> THEN -- >> I'M HERE BECAUSE YOU CALLED.

I'M HERE BECAUSE I AM PART OF YOUR HISTORY.

>> "FOLLOWING HARRY."

THE NEXT GENERATION CONTINUING THE WORK OF LEGENDARY MUSICIAN AND CIVIL RIGHTS ICON HARRY BELAFONTE.

I'M JOINED BY ACTIVIST CARMEN PEREZ-JORDAN AND SINGER/SONGWRITER ALOE BLACC.

>>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> ROUGHLY NOW HALF THE STATES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE SOME SORT OF ANTI-TRANS LEGISLATION ON THE BOOKS.

>> COMBATTING TRANS HATE.

AWARD WINNING JOURNALIST AND FOUNDER OF TRANSLASH MEDIA, IMARA JONES SPEAKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT HER NEW DOCUSERIES, "AMERICAN PROBLEMS, TRANS SOLUTIONS."

♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THIS WEEKEND, FRANCE HEADS TO THE POLLS AND THE FAR RIGHT LOOKS SET TO COME OUT ON TOP.

PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON THREW THE DICE WITH THIS SNAP ELECTION AFTER HIS CENTRIST PARTY WAS TROUNCED BY MARINE Le PEN'S NATIONAL RALLY IN RECENT EUROPEAN PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS.

CORRESPONDENT MELISSA BELL HAS MORE ON HOW Le PEN HAS RESHAPED THE PARTY'S DARK ORIGINS INTO AN APPARENTLY PALATABLE MAINSTREAM ALTERNATIVE.

>> Reporter: IT WAS FOR FRANCE'S NATIONAL RALLY A HISTORIC WIN.

THE EUROPEAN ELECTIONS MARK THE FIRST TIME THE HARD RIGHT HAD WON A POLL NATIONALLY.

NOW WITH THE PARTIES CAMPAIGNING FOR SEATS IN FRONT IN PARLIAMENT AND A SHOT AT GOVERNMENT.

>> Translator: THAT'S THE WORK THAT MARINE Le PEN AND HER TEAM HAVE MANAGED TO DO, TO SHOW WE ARE A PARTY CAPABLE OF GOVERNING AND A PARTY THAT IS DEMOCRATIC.

>> Reporter: NO MEAN FEAT FOR A WOMAN WHO INHERITED THE FAMILY FROM HER FATHER, THE HOLOCAUST DENIER Le PEN WHO FOUNDED THE NATIONAL RALLY OR NATIONAL FRONT AS IT WAS KNOWN WITH FORMER FRONT MEMBERS OF HITLER'S SS, A HISTORY STEEPED IN FASCISM THAT WAS CREDITED WITH LONG KEEPING THE PARTY FROM POWER, EVEN WHEN IT GOT CLOSE.

FRANCE IS A COUNTRY AFTER ALL HEAVILY MARKED BY THE HORRORS OF NAZI GERMANY.

AMONGST THOSE ATROCITIES, WHAT HAPPENED HERE 80 YEARS AGO WHEN AN ENTIRE VILLAGE WAS ROUNDED UP BY THE SS AND KILLED IN COLD BLOOD.

THE VILLAGE FROZEN IN TIME, LEFT EXACTLY AS IT WAS ON THAT FATEFUL DAY 80 YEARS AGO IN ORDER FOR THE WORLD TO REMEMBER.

BUT IN THE NEW VILLAGE REBUILT AFTER THE WAR, THE EUROPEAN ELECTIONS SAW THE NATIONAL RALLY COME FIRST HERE TOO.

>> Translator: HERE THE NATIONAL RALLY DID A BIG SCORE LIKE IN OTHER RURAL COMMUNITIES.

TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

THE MEANS OF COMMUNICATION ARE NO LONGER THE SAME.

SOCIETAL ISSUES HAVE EVOLVED TOO, AND THERE HAS BEEN A DETOXIFICATION OF THE EXTREMES OF THE FAR RIGHT.

>> Reporter: THE KEY ALSO FOR THE NATIONAL RALLY THE YOUNG, WHO VOTED MASSIVELY IN FAVOR OF A PARTY THAT FEW IN THE PAST WOULD HAVE ADMITTED VOTING FOR, BUT THAT HAS NOW GAINED SOMETHING.

>> Translator: LEGITIMACY, THAT'S IT.

WE'RE NO LONGER OSTRACIZED.

WE'RE TAKE SERIOUSLY.

THEY SAID 30% OF FRENCH VOTED FOR US.

FRENCH PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEIR COUNTRY, WHO DON'T WANT TO SEE IT CHANGE AND GET EATEN BY GLOBALIZATION.

>> Reporter: A MESSAGE THAT LOOKS SET TO RESONATE IN A PARLIAMENTARY POLL THAT COULD SEE THE NATIONAL PARTY GAIN NOT JUST LEGITIMACY, BUT POWER ITSELF.

>> NOW IN A MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEEPER DIVE INTO THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE IN FRANCE AND ACROSS PARTS OF EUROPE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON DID EARLIER THIS YEAR WAS TO ENSHRINE A WOMAN'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HER OWN REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, INCLUDING AN ABORTION IN THE CONSTITUTION, FEARING THAT IF A FAR-RIGHT GOVERNMENT EVER CAME TO POWER.

THAT WOULD TAKE THOSE RIGHTS AWAY FROM FRENCH WOMEN.

NOW, OF COURSE, THIS SCENARIO HAS BEEN PLAYING OUT IN THE UNITED STATES WITH THE LEGAL TANGLE OVER ABORTION.

AND TODAY AMERICA'S HIGHEST COURT HAS RULED ON IDAHO'S STRICT ABORTION LAW, TEMPORARILY ALLOWING THEM IN MEDICAL EMERGENCIES.

SO CONSIDER THIS LEVEL OF CONDITIONALITY THAT I'VE JUST READ OUT AND THE NEWS INTEREST IN A NATION WHERE WOMEN HAD THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO DECIDE THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH MATTERS FOR THEMSELVES FOR FIVE DECADES UNTIL JUST TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THE MAJORITY CONSERVATIVE SUPREME COURT MOSTLY APPOINTED BY THEN PRESIDENT TRUMP OVERTURNED ROE V. WADE.

LEGAL ANALYST CARRIE CORDERO JOINS ME NOW FROM WASHINGTON TO EXPLAIN THE SIGNIFICANCE OF TODAY'S RULING.

SO CARRIE, GIVE ME THE SIGNIFICANCE OF IT, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE A VERY NARROW DECISION WITH A LOT OF CONDITIONS ATTACHED TO IT.

TELL ME WHAT IT ACTUALLY MEANS.

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

SO IN TODAY'S DECISION BY THE SUPREME COURT, WHAT THEY REALLY DID IS DELAY MAKING EVENTUAL DECISIONS IF IT COMES BACK TO THEM ON THE LEGALITY OF IDAHO, ONE STATE'S LAWS THAT BANS ABORTION, UNLESS THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER IS AT RISK.

AND SO THE SUPREME COURT HAD STEPPED IN TO THIS CASE EARLIER THIS YEAR AND HAD ALLOWED THE IDAHO LAW TO GO FORWARD.

AND NOW WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS DONE IS IT SAID ACTUALLY, WE THINK WE INTERVENED TOO QUICKLY.

AND SO WE ARE GOING TO STEP BACK OUT OF THIS CASE, BUT WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO MAKE THE SUBSTANTIVE DECISIONS ABOUT IT JUST YET.

>> SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

ONE OF THE ASSOCIATE JUSTICES, KETANJI BROWN SAID THIS IS NOT A VICTORY FOR IDAHO.

IT'S NOT A VICTORY FOR THE PATIENTS IN IDAHO.

IT'S A DELAY, AS YOU LAID OUT.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE WOMEN THERE?

>> SO AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, RIGHT NOW POST THIS DECISION, THE IDAHO LAW THAT IS MORE RESTRICTIVE IS SET ASIDE.

AND IF THERE IS A WOMAN WHO NEEDS THE CARE UNDER THE PROVISION OF FEDERAL LAW THAT APPLIES, THAT SHE WILL BE ABLE TO RECEIVE THAT CARE.

THE IDAHO LAW WOULD RESTRICT THAT AND WOULD NOT ENABLE A HOSPITAL OR A DOCTOR TO PROVIDE THE CARE THAT SHE NEEDS, IF HER HEALTH IS IN DANGER, NOT NECESSARILY HER LIFE, BUT HER HEALTH IS IN DANGER.

AND SO THAT IS WHAT THE PRACTICAL IMPACT IS.

BUT AGAIN, IT WILL GO BACK TO LOWER COURTS NOW.

AND SO IT IS FORESEEABLE THAT THIS IS REALLY JUST A TEMPORARY REPRIEVE AND NOT ANY TYPE OF RESOLUTION TO THE ISSUE.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU -- I SUPPOSE SURMISE?

WAS IT THAT THE SUPREME COURT DIDN'T WANT TO DO YET ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL DECISION IN THE MIDST OF AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN, OR WHAT?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY THAT IT WAS TIED TO THE ELECTION YEAR IN PARTICULAR, BUT IT DOES SEEM THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THEY JUST DECIDED THAT IT WASN'T YET RIPE FOR THEIR DECISION MAKING, AND IT SEEMS LIKE SOME OF THE JUSTICES VIEWED THAT THEY HAD STEPPED INTO THE CASE MUCH TOO QUICKLY.

NOW JUSTICE JACKSON AND JUSTICE ALITO, IN THE PIECES THAT THEY WROTE, BOTH SAID THEY THINK THE SUPREME COURT SHOULD HAVE ACTUALLY RESOLVED WHAT THE CONFLICT IN THIS CASE WAS, WHICH WAS WHETHER OR NOT THE FEDERAL LAW PREEMPTS OR SHOULD HOLD OVER THE IDAHO LAW.

BOTH OF THEM WOULD COME TO COMPLETE OPPOSITE DECISIONS AS TO HOW THAT WOULD BE RESOLVED, BUT THEY BOTH WROTE THAT THEY THOUGHT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED, BUT INSTEAD MOST OF THE JUSTICES JUST DECIDED TO STEP OUT OF THE CASE FOR NOW AND SEND IT BACK TO THE LOWER COURTS.

>> SO CARRIE CORDERO, IT REALLY DOES SOUND SO TANGLED LEGALLY AND EACH STATE HAS DIFFERENT RULES AND REGULATIONS, LEAVING AMERICAN WOMEN IN REALLY A BIG STATE OF LIMBO.

SO I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK OF WHAT COUNTRIES LIKE FRANCE HAVE DONE IN ORDER TO PRECISELY PREVENT THIS KIND OF REMOVAL OF WOMEN'S INDEPENDENCE AND THEIR OWN HEALTH CARE RIGHTS.

>> ALSO, THE UNITED STATES OF COURSE DOES NOT HAVE THIS RIGHT TO AN ABORTION OR ANY EXPLICITLY PRIVATE RIGHT OR WOMEN'S RIGHT THAT MIGHT BE SPECIFIED IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

AND WHAT THE SUPREME COURT DID TWO YEARS AGO IN THE DOBBS DECISION IS IT TOOK WHAT HAD BEEN AT LEAST A SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT SEEMED SETTLED, AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR LEAD-UP FOR 50 YEARS IN THE UNITED STATES, AND WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID IS IT SAID ACTUALLY THAT DIDN'T ACTUALLY SETTLE IT.

WE THINK IT SHOULD GO BACK.

THE DECISION COULD GO BACK TO THE STATES ON THIS ISSUE OF WHAT THE SUPREME COURT TENDS TO DESCRIBE AS A MORAL ISSUE OR A CULTURE ISSUE.

AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, CHRISTIANE, IS THAT THE PAST TWO YEARS HAVE BEEN MORE CONFUSING AS MORE AND MORE STATES HAVE IMPLEMENTED LAWS THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO VARIOUS ASPECTS OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH OR WOMEN'S HEALTH.

IT HAS CAUSED MORE CONFUSION SINCE THEIR DOBBS DECISION, NOT LESS.

>> AND WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP ON THIS SIDE OF THE ISSUE AND PRESIDENT BIDEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE, IT IS A MAJOR ELECTION ISSUE, I GUESS.

CERTAINLY IT WAS IN THE MIDTERMS.

BUT CAN I JUST ASK YOU FINALLY, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT AS PEOPLE ARE DESCRIBING THIS, KIND OF A HALF ISSUE, OR A HALF DECISION THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAND DOWN, AND THEY'VE SO FAR AVOIDED SOME OF THE MORE DIRECT CASES IN FRONT OF THEM, OR AT LEAST THEY'VE DELAYED THEM UP UNTIL NOW INVOLVING PRESIDENT TRUMP, LIKE THE IMMUNITY CASE AND OTHER SUCH THINGS.

WHEN DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO COME DOWN?

>> WELL, IT COULD -- ON THE IMMUNITY CASE, IT COULD BE TOMORROW OR IT COULD BE EARLY NEXT WEEK.

SO I THINK -- WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT DAY THE SUPREME COURT DOESN'T ANNOUNCE IN ADVANCE WHICH SPECIFIC DAY IT'S GOING TO RELEASE OPINIONS ON.

IT DOES SEEM THAT NEXT WEEK IT WILL FINALLY WRAP UP THIS PARTICULAR TERM.

AND WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO CASES AFFECTING THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

ONE IS THE IMMUNITY CASE, WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT TO HIM AND TO THE INSTITUTION OF THE PRESIDENCY, WHETHER A PRESIDENT IS IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION.

AND THEN THERE IS ANOTHER CASE WHICH PERTAINS TO OBSTRUCTION, WHICH WOULD AFFECT NOT ONLY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, BECAUSE IF THE COURT AGREES WITH THE PETITIONER IN THAT CASE, IT COULD POTENTIALLY DISMISS TWO OF THE COUNTS AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND IT ALSO WOULD AFFECT HUNDREDS OF THE CASES OF INDIVIDUALS PROSECUTED IN CONNECTION WITH JANUARY 6th.

SO BOTH OF THOSE CASES WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR THE SUPREME COURT TO RULE ON.

IT WILL BE SOME TIME IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

>> CARRIE CORDERO, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED FOR HELPING US NAVIGATE SOME OF THESE COMPLEXITIES.

>>> AND NOW, LET'S GET BACK TO THOSE UPCOMING ELECTIONS IN FRANCE.

I'M JOINED BY THE FINANCIAL TIMES COLUMNIST SIMON KUPER.

HIS NEW TOOK IS "IMPOSSIBLE CITY: PARIS IN THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY."

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> YOU HAVE SPENT A LONG TIME -- I'VE READ YOUR WEEKEND COLUMNS -- TALKING ABOUT FOR WONT OF A BETTER WORD, CENTRIST POLITICS AND HOW THE CENTER CAN HOLD.

AND YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF TALK POST BREXIT AND THE TROUBLES AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

I JUST WONDER, AS SOMEBODY WHO SPENT SO LONG IN FRANCE, YOU'RE NOW A FRENCH CITIZEN, YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAT SORT OF LOVE LETTER TO PARIS, WHICH IS A GREAT CITY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAS CAUSED THIS MOMENT WHERE THE FAR RIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME COULD ACTUALLY WIN A PARLIAMENTARY ELECTION?

>> WELL, THE FAR RIGHT HAS BEEN LIKE A WOLF HOWLING OUTSIDE THE DOOR FOR 50 YEARS.

AND THE HOWLING HAS GOT LOUDER AND LOUDER, ESPECIALLY ON MARINE Le PEN WHO SOUGHT POWER MORE AGGRESSIVELY THAN HER FATHER, THE PREVIOUS LEADER DID.

AND I THINK THERE IS RESENTMENT AGAINST PARIS THAT IS BUILT INTO IT, IS A VERY BIG PART OF IT.

SO FRANCE, LIKE THE UK IS A COUNTRY WITH A WEALTHY CAPITAL THAT'S SUCKING IN INVESTMENTS AND JOBS, THAT SUCKS IN YOUNG AMBITIOUS PEOPLE.

AND FRANCE IS A COUNTRY WHED MILLENNIA.

THE FRENCH TERRITORY IS ABLEDED AND PEOPLE FEEL ABANDONED BY THE REPUBLIC AND THERE IS NO BUS SERVICES, NO POST SERVICES, NO DOCTOR, NO SCHOOL.

THAT'S PART OF THIS ENORMOUS RESENTMENT AGAINST PARIS.

MY COLUMN HAS BECOME THE EMBODIMENT OF THAT.

I THINK THE FRENCH ARE MORE UNCOMFORTABLE IMMIGRATION ON AVERAGE THAN THE BRITISH.

AND THE FAR RIGHT EXPRESSES THAT.

>> I WANT TO -- BECAUSE I THINK YOU WROTE IN THE PAPER LAST WEEK OR SO ABOUT THE FAMOUS FRENCH SOCCER PLAYER, FOOTBALL PLAYER KYLIAN MBAPPE AND WHAT HE SAID REGARDING THESE UPCOMING ELECTIONS.

WE KNOW THAT IN THE PARLIAMENTARY, OR RATHER IN THE EUROPEAN ELECTIONS, YOUNG PEOPLE TURNED OUT AND VOTED IN LARGE NUMBERS FOR THE Le PEN PARTY.

AND KYLIAN MBAPPE APPEARED TO BE PLAYING THIS MESSAGE.

>> Translator: WE KNOW WE ARE IN A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, AN UNUSUAL SITUATION, AND THAT IS WHY I APPEAL TO ALL THE FRENCH PEOPLE AND ABOVE ALL TO THE YOUNG GENERATION.

I THINK WE ARE A GENERATION THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

TODAY WE SEE THAT THE EXTREMES ARE KNOCKING ON THE DOOR OF POWER, AND WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHAPE THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT WILL BE A CALL THAT WILL BE HEEDED?

DOES HE HAVE INFLUENCE LIKE THAT?

>> IT'S A REMARKABLE STATEMENT.

THE CAPTAIN OF A NATIONAL TEAM THAT EXPECTED TO MAINTAIN NEUTRALITY, WHO AS A BLACK MAN IS IN FRANCE ALWAYS UNDER SUSPICION FROM A LARGE PART OF THE POPULATION OF NOT REALLY BEING FOR FRANCE, OF NOT REALLY BEING EVEN FRENCH.

HE COMES OUT, AND HE DOESN'T SAY IN SO MANY WORDS, BUT HE IS SAYING DON'T VOTE FOR THE RIGHT.

I THINK HE IS NOT APPEALING TO YOUNG PEOPLE IN GENERAL.

I THINK HE IS APPEALING ESPECIALLY TO YOUNGER PEOPLE OF IMMIGRANT ORIGIN IN THE SUBURBS OF PARIS AND OTHER BIG CITIES WHO HAVE LOW TURNOUT, WHO HAVEN'T VOTED MUCH.

AND HE IS SAYING FOR GOD'S SAKE, GET OUT AND VOTE, BECAUSE IF THE NATIONAL NOW KAUSHLGSD CALLED ESPECIALLY WITH ITS ANTI-MUSLIM ETHOS, SO MANY FRENCH PEOPLE ARE OF MUSLIM ORIGIN, THIS IS REALLY A NIGHTMARE SITUATION.

IT'S THEIR POSITION ON ISLAM IS MORE RADICAL THAN DONALD TRUMP'S.

>> WOW.

AND THAT REMINDS US OF ONE OF THE FIRST ACTS HE TOOK WHEN HE MADE THIS BAN FOR SEVERAL MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES COMING INTO THE UNITED STATES.

YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED?

HOW DID -- THERE ARE TWO QUESTIONS.

I REMEMBER COVERING THE ELECTION OF 2002 WHEN HER FATHER JEAN-MARIE Le PEN, WASN'T HE A FRENCH OFFICER?

HI, WAS THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE PARTY OF AN SS OFFICER.

JEAN-MARIE Le PEN WAS TOO YOUNG TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

>> HE CALLED THE HOLOCAUST A DETAIL OF HISTORY, AND HE GOT VERY FAR IN THOSE ELECTIONS IN 2002, AND THEN PRESIDENT CHIRAC GOT A COALITION TOGETHER TO STOP HIM.

I THINK IN FRANCE THEY CALL IT A CORDON SANITAIRE, BASICALLY A SAFETY NET.

THAT WHAT MACRON IS GAMBLING ON, THAT EVERYBODY WILL COME TOWARDS AND SAVE THE DAY?

>> IT MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE THINGS HE WAS HOPING FOR.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THE PARTY OF JEAN-MARIE Le PEN CAME FROM THAT KIND OF '40s TRADITION.

MANY OF ITS FOLLOWERS HAVE ITS ROOTS IN VICHY, THE FRENCH COLLABORATION BEFORE WORLD WAR II.

JEAN-MARIE Le PEN IS A ANTI-SEMITE.

THAT WENT TOO FAR.

THEY COULDN'T VOTE FOR PEOPLE WHO CALLED THE VICHY REGIME.

MARINE Le PEN DOESN'T DO ANTISEMITISM.

SHE SAYS SHE LOVES JEWS.

HER FOCUS IS AGAINST ISLAM.

SO SHE HAS REMOVED THAT LINK WITH THE WORLD WAR II PAST THAT WAS JUST A BRIDGE TOO FAR FOR MANY VOTERS.

SHE KIND OF IS A PARTY AGAINST ISLAM, AGAINST BROADLY AFRICAN IMMIGRATION, BUT DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF PRO-NAZI TINGE TO IT.

SO THERE ISN'T THE TERROR OF HER, OR THERE IS, BUT IT'S MUCH LESS WIDESPREAD THAN IT IS FOR HER FATHER.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK MARINE Le PEN WOULD DO IF THEY BECOME A MAJORITY IN PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF POLICIES WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE DOMESTICALLY?

>> I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GET A MAJORITY, BUT OF COURSE THEY MIGHT.

AND WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS THEY WOULD REMOVE BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP.

SO IF YOU WERE BORN IN FRANCE, OR YOUR PARENTS WERE NOT FRENCH, THEN YOU WOULD NOT BECOME A CITIZEN, EVEN IF YOU LIVED YOUR WHOLE LIFE IN FRANCE.

THEY WOULD GO BRUSSELS AND SAY ANY EUROPEAN UNION TREATY WE DON'T LIKE, WE'RE GOING IGNORE.

AND BY THE WAY, GIVE US LOTS OF MONEY BACK.

WE'RE NOT GOING LEND ANYMORE.

ASYLUM SEEKERS, WE'RE GOING TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY, KIND OF FANTASY MONEY.

WELL DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO COME FROM, BUT WE'RE GOING CUT THE AC ON ENERGY AND WE'RE GOING REDUCE THE PENSION AGE.

THIS IS A LOT OF UNFUNDED SPENDING WHICH IS GOING TO TERRIFY FINANCIAL MARKETS.

>> AND BECAUSE COST OF LIVING IN THOSE KIND OF ECONOMIC ISSUES USE MENTION IS TOP OF MIND FOR MANY VOTERS, DO YOU THINK MACRON'S GAMBLE THAT SHOULD THEY COME IN AS A PRIME MINISTER OR WHATEVER TO SHOW PEOPLE YOU VOTED FOR THEM?

LET'S SEE HOW THEY ACTUALLY GOVERN, DO YOU THINK GIVEN WHAT YOU'VE JUST SAID, COULD THEY STUMBLE IN GOVERNMENT?

>> I MEAN, EVERY GOVERNMENT IN FRANCE ENDS UP BEING DESPISED QUITE RAPIDLY.

SO THAT MAY WELL HAPPEN TO THEM AS WELL.

BUT THEY CAN ALWAYS BLAME MACRON.

THEY SAY WELL, THEY CAN ACCURATELY SAY HE CREATED SUCH A HIGH BUDGET DEFICIT, WE COULDN'T DO ALL THIS KIND OF SANTA CLAUS SPENDING THAT WE HAD PROMISED.

AND THEY'LL BLAME THE SITUATION THEY INHERITED, AND MAYBE SUCCESSFULLY.

I MEAN, GIVE THE FAR RIGHT GOVERNMENTS AND THEY'LL BE EXPOSED.

IT HASN'T WORKED FOR DONALD TRUMP.

IT HASN'T WORKED FOR GIORGIA MELONI.

I'M NOT SURE ONCE THEY FORCE OPEN THE DOOR THEY WOULDN'T LEAVE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SPEAK TOE MELONI.

SHE SEEMS TO BE PART TO HAVE ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER HOW YOU CAN BE PART OF A LEGACY FASCIST PARTY AND BE ACCEPTABLE ON THE WORLD STAGE WHILE IMPLEMENTING PRAGMATISM ON THE WORLD STAGE, BUT A LOT MORE CONSERVATIVE OR EXTREME POLICIES AT HOME.

>> YEAH.

SO ONE THING THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IS SAY TO POLICE, YOU KNOW WHAT?

IF YOU SHOOT A BLACK KID, WE'RE NOT GOING MAKE ANY TROUBLE ABOUT THAT.

JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT.

A AT DEMONSTRATION, IF YOU WANT TO HIT THE DEMONSTRATORS, WE'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO BE FUSSED ABOUT THAT.

YOU CAN TAKE AWAY MONEY FROM PUBLIC TELEVISION SO THAT YOU THEN GET THIS U.S.-STYLE SITUATION WHERE EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN TRUTH.

SOLVE THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO QUITE QUICKLY.

BUT I THINK EVEN IF THEY GET THE PRIME MINISTER ON JULY 7th, NOT THE CRUCIAL STEP.

THE CRUCIAL MOMENT WOULD BE 2027, DOES MARINE Le PEN GET ELECTED.

BECAUSE BEING THE FRENCH PRESIDENT, THAT'S THE MOST POWERFUL JOB IN EUROPE.

IT'S MUCH BIGGER THAN BEING ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER.

>> AND BIGGER THAN GERMANY WHICH ALSO HAS A RISE FAR RIGHT AFD.

>> IN GERMANY YOU ALWAYS HAVE A COALITION GOVERNMENT.

SO ANY GOVERNMENT IS CONSTRAINED.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE EXTREME LEFT IN FRANCE?

THERE IS EXTREME RIGHT AND THIS EXTREME LEFT AND THE WHOLE COALITION OF THE LEFTISTS AND SOCIALISTS, EVEN FRANCOIS ALONDON HAS JOINED YOU THINK THAT THE FN WON'T GET A MAJORITY, HOW DO YOU THINK IT WILL BREAK DOWN?

>> THE THING IS THE FAR LEFT HATES MACRON.

THE CENTRIST LEFT DOESN'T LIKE MACRON EITHER, AND MACRON IS KIND OF THE MOST DETESTED FIGURE IN FRENCH POLICY.

THE ACTION IS MOVING AWAY FROM HIM.

WHAT'S POPP POSSIBLE, IF YOU ADD UP THE MACRON PARTY PLUS THE LEFT COALITION, THEY MIGHT GET 50%.

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S FIND A COMPROMISE PRIME MINISTER.

WHO WILL THAT BE?

MAYBE FRANCOIS ALONDE.

>> WHAT ABOUT YOUR BOOK?

YOU LOVE FRANCE.

YOU LOVE PARIS.

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THERE, GIVEN THE SITUATION WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW?

>> I TRY TO DESCRIBE A CITY THAT IS NOT JUST THE POSTCARD THAT WE KNOW WITH THE EIFFEL TOWER AND NOTRE DAME.

IT'S ALL THERE AND THE FOOD IS WONDERFUL.

PARIS IS NOT THAT LITTLE CITY OF TWO MILLION.

PARIS IS 12 MILLION PEOPLE, IT INCLUDES THE SUBURBS WHICH ARE FASCINATING WORLDS WHICH ARE NOW BEING UNITED WITH THE MAIN CITY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, 68 NEW METRO STATIONS, MANY OF THEM COMING ON LINE FOR THE OLYMPICS.

I'M REALLY POSITIVE AND OPTIMISTIC ABOUT PARIS, BUT A FAR RIGHT GOVERNMENT WOULD THROW EVERYTHING OFF.

>> WOW.

THIS IS -- YOU HAVE AN INCREDIBLE ASSIGNMENT BEING THERE RIGHT NOW.

>> FASCINATING.

>> SIMON KUPER, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>>> AND NEXT, THE LONG-TIME STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM AND SOCIAL JUSTICE IN THE UNITED STATES.

FOR DECADES, THE LEGENDARY SINGER AND ACTOR HARRY BELAFONTE WORKED TIRELESSLY TO FIGHT RACISM, CARRYING ON THE LEGACY OF HIS FRIEND MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. FOR THE FINAL 12 YEARS OF HIS LIFE, BELAFONTE COLLABORATED ON A DOCUMENTARY TO PASS ON THE LESSONS HE LEARNED FROM A LIFETIME OF ACTIVISM.

THE RESULT IS "FOLLOWING HARRY," AND HERE IS A CLIP.

>> I'M HERE BECAUSE YOU CALLED.

I'M HERE BECAUSE I AM PART OF YOUR HISTORY.

YOU CALLED, AND I'M HERE TO TELL YOU THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN ON THIS CAMPAIGN, WHO HAVE BEEN IN THIS STRUGGLE FOR OVER A CENTURY ARE DELIGHTED, HAPPY TO BE PART OF THIS MOMENT.

>> WHAT I RECOGNIZED IS MR. BELAFONTE WANTED IT TO BE A BRIDGE THAT SO MANY GENERATESES OF YOUNG PEOPLE COULD WALK OVER THAT CONNECTED THEM AND US TO THE PROMISE AND THE UNFINISHED WORK OF HIS TIME.

HIS APPRECIATION AND LOVE AND BELIEF IN THE DREAM DEFENDERS AT MANY TIMES WAS THE SOLE THING FROM KEEPING MYSELF AND I THINK OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE BRINK OF QUITTING.

>> LIKE PHILLIP AGNEW SPEAKING THERE.

THE FILM INCLUDES MANY OF THE YOUNGER GENERATION BELAFONTE INSPIRED, BUT ALSO LISTENED TO INCLUDING CARMEN PEREZ-JORDAN, AN ACTIVIST WHO NOW HEADS UP THE GATHERING FOR JUSTICE, AN NGO THAT WAS FOUNDED BY BBELAFONTE, AND ALOE BLACC, WHO THIS WEEK RECEIVED THE HARRY BELAFONTE FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE AWARD.

THEY'RE JOINING ME FROM NEW YORK.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM.

IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY DOCUMENTARY.

IT'S JUST SO SORT OF REAL-TIME LIKE A TUTORIAL, LIKE A LESSON EVOLVING BEFORE YOUR EYES.

SO CARMEN, LET ME ASK YOU FIRST, WHAT MADE YOU EVEN WANT TO CONNECT WITH HARRY?

WHAT SAID TO YOU THIS IS THE PERSON I NEED TO TALK TO CONTINUE MY LIFE OF ACTIVISM?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

AND I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK I ASK MYSELF THAT QUESTION.

I WAS ACTUALLY ASSIGNED TO WORK FOR MR. BELAFONTE THROUGH HIS TEAM ALEJANDRAS WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF BARRIOS UNIDOS.

AND I WAS RUNNING THE PRISON PROJECT, AND MR. BELAFONTE WAS ONE OF THE GUESTS INSIDE TRACY PRISON.

AND WHEN I WAS INVITED TO BE PART OF WHAT IS NOW CALLED THE GATHERING FOR JUSTICE, HE CLEARLY WANTED ME TO WORK FOR HIM BECAUSE OF THE WORK I HAD DONE IN PRISONS AND THE WORK I HAD DONE IN THE COMMUNITY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS AGO I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO BE A BLESSING TO SIT AT HIS FEET AND TO LEARN FROM HIM.

AND WHAT I INITIALLY THOUGHT MR. B.

WAS AND WHO HE WAS NOT NECESSARILY ANYTHING THAT I DISCOVERED UNTIL I GOT TO SIT WITH HIM, UNTIL I GOT TO BE WITH HIM, AND I MOVED TO NEW YORK CITY TO RUN THE GATHERING FOR JUSTICE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HIM AND EVERYTHING THAT HE TAUGHT US, I USED TO WANT TO BOTTLE IT UP.

AND "FOLLOWING HARRY" NOW IS THE EXPOSURE OF WHAT I GOT FOR THE LAST 14, 20 YEARS OF MY LIFE.

>> AND ALOE BLACC, YOU ARE A YOUNG MUSICIAN.

THERE YOU WERE, YOU KNOW, LEARNING AND ALSO EXPLAINING TO THIS VETERAN OF THE ENTERTAINMENT AND THE STREET STRUGGLE WORLD, THE WORLDS OF THAT.

WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU FIRST MET HIM?

WHAT DID YOU THINK YOU WERE GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS COLLABORATION?

>> WELL, WHEN I FIRST MET HARRY BELAFONTE, I THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING MOMENT TO JUST LEARN FROM AN ELDER.

WHAT I FOUND WAS A FRIENDSHIP AND ONE WHERE HE SAW ME AS A MUTUAL FRIEND.

WE BOTH WERE ABLE TO SPEAK TO EACH OTHER ON THE LEVEL AND LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER.

AND I'D SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IN BEING WITH HARRY AND HAVING SUSAN'S CAMERA FOLLOW US AND SEE THOSE CONVERSATIONS I THINK IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR THE WORLD TO SEE IN WATCHING "FOLLOWING HARRY," TO RECOGNIZE THAT AS HE AGED, HE CONTINUED TO STAY CONNECTED TO YOUTH, CONTINUED TO STAY CONNECTED TO ACTIVISM AND MOVEMENT, AND TO INSTRUCT BUT ALSO LEARN FROM US, AND INSTRUCT US TO LEARN FROM THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SUFFERING THE MOST, THE MOST VULNERABLE AND UNDERSTAND BEST HOW WE CAN USE OUR VOICES TO EMPOWER THEM AND MAKE THE TRANSFORMATION, THE POSITIVE TRANSFORMATION.

>> I DO THINK THE TWO-WAY STREET IS SOMETHING THAT COMES ACROSS SO WELL.

IT'S SO VITAL.

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU WERE BEING LECTURED TO.

YOU WERE ALSO TELLING HIM, THIS VETERAN, WHAT IT WAS LIKE NOW FOR YOUR GENERATIONS.

I WANT TO REFER BACK TO THE COMMENT, THE GATHERING FOR JUSTICE THAT HE FOUNDED.

WE KNOW THERE IS OVERINCARCERATION OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, WHAT SOME CALL INCLUDING IN THE PROGRAM THE NEW JIM CROW.

SO IT'S LED BY THE SIX PRINCIPLES THAT WERE OUTLINED BY MARTIN LUTHER KING IN A FAMOUS ESSAY "A PILGRIMAGE TO NONVIOLENCE."

AND I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF HARRY HIMSELF IN THE DOCUMENTARY TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> THE GATHERING CAME OUT OF A DEEPER INQUIRY ON MY PART ABOUT INCARCERATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE AND THE INJUSTICE SYSTEM.

I DO A LOT OF WORK IN THE LOCKUP WITH A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE BECAUSE I REMEMBER WITH TREMENDOUS CLARITY WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO TRY TO WORK YOUR WAY OUT OF A BAD DEAL.

>> SO CARMEN, YOU SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT CAME OUT OF THOSE GATHERINGS.

BUT I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK IS BEING ACHIEVED IN AN ATTEMPT TO HAVE MORE SOCIAL JUSTICE IN THIS REGARD, AND ALSO, WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO TELL HIM AND VICE VERSA ABOUT THE MARCH THAT YOU WERE RESPONSIBLE ALSO FOR LAUNCHING WHICH IS THE WOMEN'S MARCH ON THE INAUGURATION DAY OF DONALD TRUMP IN 2017.

>> THERE WERE SO MANY LESSONS IN MY CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. BELAFONTE.

ONE OF THEM WAS PART OF THE SIX PRINCIPLES OF THE KINGIAN NONVIOLENCE.

IT WAS PRINCIPLE NUMBER THREE, ATTACK THE FORCES OF EVIL, NOT THE PEOPLE DOING EVIL.

SO WHEN WE WERE ORGANIZING THE WOMEN'S MARCH, THE ATTACK WAS NOT AGAINST TRUMP.

IT WAS ACTUALLY CREATING PATHWAYS AND ENTRY POINTS FOR ALL WOMEN TO FEEL THAT THEY WERE CONNECTED TO A MOVEMENT, TO SOMETHING LARGER THAN THEMSELVES.

AND SO MR. BELAFONTE WOULD SIT WITH ME AND GUIDE ME THROUGH THE LESSONS HE LEARNED THROUGH THE ORIGINAL MARCH ON WASHINGTON.

AND SO A LOT OF WHAT WHICH WERE ABLE TO DO WITH THE 2017 WOMEN'S MARCH WAS REALLY BASED ON HIS GUIDANCE.

HE ALWAYS SAID MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY'RE AT.

CHAMPION THEM TO YOUR CAUSE.

HE SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LANE FOR EVERYBODY TO GET INVOLVED IN THE MOVEMENT.

AND SO WHEN WE WERE THINKING ABOUT PREPARING THE AGENDA, WE NEEDED TO BRING IN AN ARTIST LIKE ALOE BLACC, ALICIA KEYS, OTHER WOMEN WHO WERE DEMANDING RIGHTS FOR WOMEN.

AND SO FOR ME IT WAS THIS EXCHANGE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT ALOE IS SAYING.

WELL ALWAYS HAD CONVERSATIONS.

HE CONSISTENTLY GAVE ME A HISTORICAL ANALYSIS.

YOU WILL SEE THAT IN "FOLLOWING HARRY" WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH HIM AND DR. KING.

AND THOSE HISTORICAL ANALYSES AND THE CONVERSATIONS HE HAD WITH NOT ONLY DR. KING BUT ELEANOR ROOSEVELT AND NELSON MANDELA HAVE ALLOWED PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF, FELLOWSHIP AGNEW, SEAN PICA, AJA MONET, OTHERS TO CONSIDER THE LEGACY OF THOSE THAT CAME FOR US.

ALSO NOT JUST THEIR LEGACY, BUT TO CONTINUE THE WORK OF HARRY BELAFONTE.

"FOLLOWING HARRY" IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT FILM.

IT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED IN THIS MOMENT.

HE DISCUSSES AND EVEN THOUGH IT TOOK PLACE IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, EVERYTHING IS RELEVANT TO THE POLITICAL CLIMATE THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY IN.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF GEMS THAT ARE BEING DROPPED.

AND LIKE I SAID, I SAT WITH HIM FOR CLOSE TO 20 YEARS.

I'M SO GRATEFUL.

BUT NOW WITH "FOLLOWING HARRY," THE INFORMATION THAT HE SHARED WITH ME IS NOW GOING TO BE SHARED WITH THE WORLD.

>> AND ALOE, I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT A PARTICULAR SPEECH THAT HARRY MADE BACK IN 2013 WHEN HE WAS -- I BELIEVE HE WAS BEING AWARDED AT THE NAACP.

HE DIDN'T JUST SAY THANK YOU.

HE PUT EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE ON NOTICE.

I'M JUST GOING PLAY AN EXTRACT.

>> QUESTION IS WHERE IS THE RAISED VOICE OF BLACK AMERICA.

WHY ARE WE MUTE?

WHERE ARE -- [ APPLAUSE ] WHERE ARE OUR LEADERS, OUR LEGISLATORS?

WHERE IS THE CHURCH?

[ APPLAUSE ] >> YOU KNOW, REALLY THROWING THE GAUNTLET DOWN.

HE WAS NOT AFRAID TO SHINE THE SPOTLIGHT AND TO TURN THE MIRROR ON HIS OWN COMMUNITY.

WHAT DID YOU THINK, ALOE, WHEN YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT SPEECH?

>> WHAT I THOUGHT WAS IT WAS MY TURN TO STAND UP AND STEP INTO THE LIGHT AND BE PART OF THE CHANGE.

HARRY WAS CALLING ON ALL OF US TO USE OUR VOICES, OUR CELEBRITY, OUR INFLUENCE, OUR ARTISTIC EXPRESSION.

SO WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING SINCE THEN, PUTTING TOGETHER AN ALBUM WITH THE SUPPORT OF AN ORGANIZATION CALLED STAND TOGETHER WHERE ALL THE SONGS ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF AND AMPLIFYING THE WORK OF PEOPLE ON THE GROUND, COMMUNITY WORKERS WHO ARE IMPROVING THEIR ENVIRONMENTS AND THE PEOPLE THAT THEY SERVE, ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE DOING THE HARD WORK TO BETTER THE LIVES OF THE MOST VULNERABLE.

SHOW UP AS ARTISTS.

AND I LOOK TO ALL OF MY PEERS WITHIN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, THE FILM INDUSTRY, AND OTHER ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRIES TO USE THEIR VOICE, USE YOUR VOICE TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HARRY BELAFONTE ALWAYS SAID IS THAT ARTISTS ARE THE GATE KEEPERS OF TRUTH.

IT WAS A QUOTE HE GOT FROM HIS HERO, PAUL ROBESON.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ALSO, BECAUSE HE WAS COGNIZANT THAT NOT ALL MOVEMENTS ARE A KUMBAHYAH.

THERE IS A LOT OF STRUGGLE WITHIN AND INTERNAL DISAGREEMENT WITHIN.

CERTAINLY IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

AND CARMEN, I THINK YOU KNOW CLEARLY, BECAUSE YOU WERE THERE, THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF CONFLICT WITHIN THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT AFTER THAT MARCH.

SO HE OFTEN SAID IN THE FILM AND THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER, WAS IT WORTH IT?

DID EVERYTHING I DO MEAN ANYTHING?

WHAT DID WE CHANGE?

I WANT TO ASK YOU THAT, CARMEN, ABOUT WHAT HE SAID AND WHAT YOU THINK YOU CAN CHANGE.

>> I ABSOLUTELY FEEL IT WAS WORTH IT.

I WANT MR. BELAFONTE AND EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT WHAT DID IS PAVE THE WAY FOR SO MANY OF US ONE OF THE THINGS HE HAD SHARED WITH ME AFTER.

THERE IS ALWAYS CONFLICT.

THERE IS CONFLICT IN EVERY MOVEMENT.

THOSE WORKING TOWARDS THE LIBERATION OF OUR PEOPLE ARE SUBJECT TO FRIENDSHIP AND SUPPORT.

THOSE WHO ARE BEING DIVISIVE ARE PLAYING THE ENEMY'S GAME.

RIGHT NOW IN THIS MOMENT, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO COME TOGETHER TO STAND UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS, TO STAND UP FOR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING IMPACTED BY HOUSELESSNESS, TO STAND UP FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE BEING IMPACTED BY POVERTY.

AND WHAT MR. BELAFONTE DID REALLY WELL IS HE GATHERED PEOPLE.

HE BROUGHT PEOPLE TOGETHER.

HE WAS A BRIDGE.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THERE IS HOPE.

IN THIS FILM, YOU WILL SEE THAT.

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ANSWERS, IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A WAY TO FEEL HOPEFUL AGAIN, "FOLLOWING HARRY" IS.

IT IS A CLARION CALL FOR EQUITY.

WE ALL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY IN THIS MOVEMENT, WHETHER WE'RE INVOLVED IN THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT, WHETHER WE'RE INVOLVED IN THE CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM MOVEMENT.

THERE IS A LANE FOR US.

AND MR. BELAFONTE JUST DIDN'T IMPACT THOSE OF US THAT ARE PART OF THIS FILM.

WE GATHERED SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE, AND THERE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, ALL OVER THE WORLD THAT ARE CONTINUING HIS LESSONS.

>> AND THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO END WITH, ALOE.

WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF AN ELECTION.

YOUNG PEOPLE HISTORICALLY DON'T TURN OUT IN THE NUMBERS THAT THEY SHOULD.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS TIME AROUND?

>> I THINK THIS TIME AROUND YOUNG PEOPLE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO.

THE WORLD DEPENDS ON THEIR ACTION RIGHT NOW.

AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE THE CHANGE.

WE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF THE FUTURE.

WE'VE GOT TO STEP UP.

>> AND WE JUST HEARD THAT MESSAGE FROM THE GREAT FRENCH SOCCER LEGEND KYLIAN MBAPPE.

THEY'RE UNDERGOING A VERY CRUCIAL PARLIAMENTARY ELECTION THIS WEEKEND.

AND I THINK A LOT OF CULTURAL LEADERS ARE TRYING TO -- ARE TRYING TO SEND THAT MESSAGE OUT.

SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY SECONDS I'VE GOT LEFT, BUT CARMEN, TWO WORDS ON WHAT HARRY BELAFONTE MEANT TO YOU.

>> MR. BELAFONTE MEANT THE WORLD.

HE WAS MY SAVING GRACE, AND I'M REALLY GRATEFUL FOR HIM AND HIS MENTORSHIP THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.

>> AND QUICKLY FROM YOU, ALOE?

>> DRAMATIC TRANSFORMATION.

FIND ONE GOOD THING.

THAT'S THE QUOTE THAT I GOT FROM HARRY, VIA BONO ACTUALLY IN THAT CONVERSATION.

ONE GOOD THING.

>> GREAT.

WELL, YOU'VE COMMUNICATED THAT AND "FOLLOWING HARRY" DOES JUST THAT.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH INDEED FOR BEING WITH US.

>>> NOW STANDING UP FOR THE MARGINALIZED COMES OF COURSE IN MANY SHAPES AND SIZES.

THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE SEEN RECORD WAVES OF LEGISLATION TARGETING THE RIGHTS OF TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.

AND NEXT TERM, THE SUPREME COURT WILL DECIDE WHETHER STATES CAN RESTRICT GENTER AFFIRMING CARE.

BUT AWARD WINNING JOURNALIST IMARA JONES HAS MADE IT HER MISSION TO FIGHT THE NARRATIVE THAT DISEMPOWERS THE TRANS COMMUNITY, AND SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN NOW TO DISCUSS HER NEW DOCUMENTARY SERIES "AMERICAN PROBLEMS, TRANS SOLUTIONS."

THIS INTERVIEW IS PART OF EXPLORING HATE, OUR ONGOING SERIES THAT DISCUSSES THE ALARMING INCREASE IN BIAS, INJUSTICE, AND DISINFORMATION THAT THREATENS DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

IMARA JONES OF TRANSLASH MEDIA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I KIND OF WANT TO DO A LITTLE UPDATE.

LAST YEAR YOU JOINED US ON THE PROGRAM.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF LEGISLATION WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH DIFFERENT STATES IN AMERICA YOU SAY THE LEGISLATION IS FOCUSED AGAINST LGBTQ PEOPLE.

I'M WONDERING, CAN YOU KIND OF UPDATE US ON WHAT THE PROGRESS HAS BEEN, WHAT THE LANDSCAPE IS ACROSS THE COUNTRY NOW.

>> YES.

AND I THINK THE INTERESTING PART OF THIS STORY IS THE WAY IN WHICH MOST OF THESE LAWS ARE TARGETED AT TRANS PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY.

AND WHILE THERE ARE FEWER THAN PASSED LAST YEAR, THAT'S FOR TWO MAIN REASONS.

THE FIRST IS THAT ROUGHLY NOW HALF THE STATES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE SOME SORT OF ANTI-TRANS LEGISLATION ON THE BOOKS.

EITHER SPORTS OR MEDICAL CARE OR SOME OTHER ASPECT.

SO THAT FIRST WAVE OF BILLS HAS BEEN LARGELY SADLY SUCCESSFUL.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS WHAT I'VE SEEN IN MY REPORTING ON THIS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS IS THAT THERE IS SOME YEARS THAT THERE IS EXPERIMENTATION ON NEW TYPES OF LAWS.

AND WE'RE SEEING THAT THIS YEAR, SUCH AS A LAW IN TENNESSEE, WHICH CRIMINALIZES PARTICIPANTS OR CARETAKERS WHO WISH TO PROVIDE GENDER AFFIRMING CARE FOR THEIR TEENS OUTSIDE OF THE STATE.

THEY NOW CAN FACE CRIMINAL LIABILITY FROM THE STATE.

OR THE FACT THAT EVEN IN MISSOURI, FOR EXAMPLE, CHOSEN NAMES AND ALSO PREFERRED PRONOUNS, EVEN IF PARENTS CONSENT TO THAT, SCHOOLS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RECOGNIZE EITHER OF THOSE.

AND IF A SCHOOL INDIVIDUAL DOES, THEY CAN BE PROSECUTED AS A FELON AND MADE TO BE PUT ON THE SEX REGISTRY LIST, AND THEN LOSE THEIR LICENSE.

SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THE LAWS BEING MORE INSIDIOUS.

AND THERE IS EVEN ANOTHER ONE IN FLORIDA THAT ALSO ALLOWS THE TRANSFER OF CUSTODY IN CASES WHERE THERE IS ONE PARENT WHO IS TRANS AFFIRMING, THE OTHER ONE IS NOT.

IT CAN BE THE BASIS TO TRANSFER CUSTODY OF THE KID TO THE PARENT WHO IS NOT TRANS SUPPORTING.

AND THAT EVEN APPLIES FOR PEOPLE VISITING OUTSIDE OF THE STATE.

SO THE LAWS ARE GETTING MORE INVASIVE AND THE MOST INTIMATE AND SACRED OF RELATIONSHIPS MOSTLY.

>> IMARA, ACCORDING TO THE DASHBOARD THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR WEBSITE, I'M READING THAT 604 ANTI-LGBTQ BILLS WERE PROPOSED IN 2024, BUT ONLY 42 HAVE PASSED.

SO ARE WE MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL?

OR SHOULD WE BE THINKING ABOUT THIS DIFFERENTLY?

>> I WISH IT WAS MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL.

IT WOULD MAKE THIS PRIDE SEASON SO MUCH EASIER AND MORE FESTIVE.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE VOLUME OF THE BILLS ACTUALLY UNDERSCORES WHERE THE MOMENTUM IS.

AND USUALLY WHAT I HAVE SEEN FROM MY REPORTING ON THIS IS THAT YOU'LL HAVE CERTAIN YEARS WHERE THERE SEEM TO BE LESS BILLS THAT ARE PASSING.

AND WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IS AN EXPERIMENTATION ABOUT THE TYPES OF BILLS THAT WILL BECOME THE MODELS FOR THE SURGE IN SUBSEQUENT YEARS, THE SURGE IN PASSAGE.

THE ENTIRE POINT IS TO ACULTUREATE TO THESE LAWS.

AT FIRST PEOPLE WILL BE SHOCKED AT SOME OF THE THINGS I SAID.

BUT TWO OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW, IF THEY KEEP HEARING ABOUT IT, IT WON'T SEEM TO BE AS SHOCKING AND THEREFORE INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF PASSAGE.

AND I HAVE HEARD THAT STATE LAWMAKERS TELL ME DIRECTLY THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT.

THEY UNDERSTAND THAT SORT OF SLOWLY TURNING UP THE TEMPERATURE OVER TIME MAKES THE FROG IN THE ANALOGY NOT JUMP OUT OF THE WATER.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THESE BILLS.

LIKE I SAID, HALF THE STATES NOW HAVE THEM.

ADDITIONALLY, A PART OF THIS ACCULTURATION AND THE PASSAGE IS SO THAT THE ISSUES WILL RISE TO THE SUPREME COURT.

BARBARA E. HART, WHO IS THE STATE LEGISLATOR FROM IDAHO WHO INTRODUCED THE FIRST SUCCESSFUL ANTI-TRANS SPORTS BILL, THAT'S BECOME THE MODEL FOR ALL OF THE OTHERS SAID TO ME CLEARLY THAT SHE KNEW THAT THIS ISSUE WAS GOING TO GO BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT, AND THAT WAS HER GOAL BECAUSE THERE WAS A RECEPTIVE, IN HER VIEW, RECEPTIVE COURT FOR THESE TYPES OF LAWS AND THIS TYPE OF LEGISLATION.

>> IMARA, WHEN YOU TALK TO PEOPLE THAT ARE DRAFTING THESE TYPES OF LEGISLATION, WHAT IS THEIR CORE CONCERN OR BELIEF?

IS IT A -- DO THEY FEEL THREATENED BY SOMETHING?

IS THIS A RELIGIOUS MOTIVATION?

WHY ARE THESE BILLS COMING UP?

>> THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT TRANS PEOPLE ARE REAL.

AND SPECIFICALLY, THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT TRANS KIDS ARE A FACT.

AND CONSEQUENTLY, THEIR POINT OF VIEW IS THAT THERE MUST BE SOMETHING UNNATURAL AND HARMFUL THAT IS MAKING KIDS BE TRANS AND MAKING ADULTS BE TRANS.

AND SO FOR THEM, WHATEVER THAT FORCE IS, AND I'VE HEARD THEM DESCRIBE IT IN VARIOUS TYPES OF WAYS.

SOME SAY IT'S THE CULTURE.

SOME SAY IT'S SCHOOLS.

SOME SAY IT'S PART OF AN INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACY TO UNDERMINE AMERICA.

AND THEY SAY THAT WITH GREAT KNOWING INSIDE OF THEMSELVES.

THEY THEN BELIEVE THAT THESE TYPES OF LAWS, NO MATTER HOW HARSH, NO MATTER HOW DISRUPTIVE, ARE JUSTIFIED.

>> WHEN YOU MENTION THE SUPREME COURT, THE VERY ACT OF CHOOSING TO HEAR A CASE IS IN ITSELF AN INKLING OF WHERE THE COURT, RIGHT?

YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST FIVE JUSTICES AGREE TO HEAR IT.

AND THERE IS AN IMPORTANT CASE THAT IS MAKING ITS WAY OR WILL MAKE ITS WAY TO THE NEXT SUPREME COURT.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH.

IT'S A CASE IN TENNESSEE WHICH ARGUES THAT TRANS KIDS SHOULDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO GENDER AFFIRMING CARE.

AND GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, FOR MOST KIDS BASICALLY MEANS -- WHO ARE UNDER THE AGE OF 16, IT BASICALLY MEANS ACCESS TO THERAPY AND THERAPISTS AND THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO BE CALLED BY THEIR PREFERRED PRONOUNS AND THEIR CHOSEN NAMES, RIGHT THAT IS AFFIRMING THE GENDER.

BUT AS THESE KIDS GET OLDER, THERE MAY BE OTHER TYPES OF THINGS THAT A COMBINATION OF THEIR DOCTOR, THEIR THERAPIST AND THEIR PARENTS ALL IN AGREEMENT SAYING ARE THE RIGHT WAY FORWARD.

AND BY THE WAY, SURGERY IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

THAT'S JUST A TROPE.

IT DOESN'T -- IT ESSENTIALLY DOESN'T HAPPEN.

AND SO THIS BILL IN TENNESSEE SAYS THAT NONE -- THAT CAN'T HAPPEN, RIGHT.

YOU CANNOT PROVIDE GENDER AFFIRMING CARE TO KIDS.

AND TENNESSEE IS A PLACE WHERE A GENDER AFFIRMING CENTER AT VANDERBILT WAS CLOSED DUE TO BOMB THREATS AND ALL TYPES OF OTHER THREATS AND PROTESTS WHERE IN EERIE ECHOES TO THE ABORTION MOVEMENT, WHAT THIS CASE POSSIBLY COULD MEAN IF THE RULING GOES AGAINST GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, IT MEANS THAT THE SUPREME COURT LIKELY IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A DEFINING RULING BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BIOLOGICAL SEX AND GENDER AND SAY THAT GENDER IS NOT PROTECTED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.

AND THAT IN ONE FELL SWOOP COULD MEAN THAT TRANS PROTECTIONS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND FAUBEL STATE LEVEL COULD BE RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

SO ANY OF THE GAINS THAT TRANS PEOPLE HAVE MADE, MINOR GAINS THAT ARE ALREADY UNDER ASSAULT COULD BE WIPED AWAY.

AND THEN THERE ARE LARGER IMPLICATIONS FOR EVERYONE IN TERMS OF GENDER AFFIRMING CARE AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

>> CAN WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THE CLIMATE OF LEGISLATION OR PENDING LEGISLATION HERE IN THE UNITED STATES IS AFFECTING THINGS AROUND THE WORLD.

I MEAN, ONE OF OUR MOST SUCCESSFUL EXPORTS IN AMERICA IS CULTURE.

AND HOW IS THIS AFFECTING WHAT HAPPENS IN EUROPE OR IN AFRICA OR ANYWHERE ELSE?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE EXPORTING IS ESSENTIALLY LEGISLATIVE TRANSPHOBIA IN A CAN.

AND THE REASON WHY THAT IS THE CASE BECAUSE THE ORGANIZATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES SUCH AS THE ALLIANCE OF PENDING FREEDOM ARE GLOBAL IN NATURE AS WELL.

THEY HAVE CHAPTERS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND HUNGARY AND ELSEWHERE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS EMERGING FOR EXAMPLE, AND I'VE HEARD PEOPLE IN THE TRANS COMMUNITY IN FRANCE TELL ME THAT INCREASINGLY THEY ARE SEEING THE EXACT SAME RHETORIC AND THE EXACT SAME APPROACH THAT'S USED IN THE UNITED STATES NOW BE PICKED UP BY FAR RIGHT FRENCH POLITICIANS IN A WAY THAT DID NOT EXIST TWO YEARS AGO, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND SO MUCH SO THAT THERE WAS ACTUALLY A NATIONWIDE PROTEST IN EVERY SINGLE DEPARTMENT IN FRANCE LAST MONTH BY TRANS PEOPLE TO UNDERSCORE THEIR VISIBILITY AND THEIR ESSENTIAL NEED FOR RIGHTS.

THE OTHER THING WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS IN OTHER PLACES SUCH AS AFRICA, A LOT OF THE ANTI--LGBTQ LEGISLATION THERE IS ALSO SUPPORTED BY RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES WHO ARE SENDING KNOW-HOW AND TALKING POINTS AND EVEN CASH TO HELP GENERATE SUPPORT AMONGST LEGISLATORS.

IN GHANA, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IS CHANGING AND TOXIFYING THE CLIMATE AROUND THE WORLD.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK WE PAY ENOUGH ATTENTION TO.

>> IS THERE A CROSSOVER OR AN OVERLAP BETWEEN WHERE THIS BECOMES MORE SUCCESSFUL AND THE TYPE OF REGIMES OR GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE IN POWER?

>> I MEAN, WE SEE THAT THE MOST ANTI-TRANS GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD ARE USUALLY ON THE RIGHT AND THE FAR RIGHT.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN VLADIMIR PUTIN MAKES SPEECHES ABOUT UKRAINE, HE GOES OUT OF HIS WAY TO DEVOTE PART OF THE TALK OF RALLYING THE NATION TO TALK ABOUT TRANS PEOPLE AND TO TALK ABOUT GENDER.

THE SAME IS TRUE FOR PRESIDENT XI IN CHINA, WHO ALSO GOES AFTER WHAT HE SAYS ARE GIRLIE MEN IN CHINA AND THAT THEY ARE BRINGING DOWN THE CHINESE STATE, AND THAT PEOPLE NEED TO ACT IN A MORE MASCULINE WAY.

AND WE ALSO HAVE TO SAY THAT THE ANTI-TRANS PUSH IN THE UNITED STATES BEGAN LEGISLATIVELY AND ADMINISTRATIVELY DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

AND WE HAVE A POLITICAL PARTY IN THE UNITED STATES NOW WHICH IS DEVOTEDLY ANTI-TRANS.

EVERY SINGLE MAJOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE MADE BEING ANTI-TRANS ONE OF THE TOP FOUR REASONS AND RATIONALES FOR THEIR PRESIDENCY, AND THAT IS NOW TRUE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

>> I WANT TO SHIFT A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS SOLUTIONS, AND I WONDER, YOU KNOW, LOOK, IF THERE IS A KIND OF RUBBER STAMP MACHINE THAT CAN CRANK OUT LEGISLATION, ANTI-LGBTQ LEGISLATION IN A CAN, IF YOU WILL, AND EXPORT IT OVERSEAS OR GO FROM STATE TO STATE, IS THERE ANY SORT OF A COUNTER TO THAT?

ARE THERE STATES OR MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE CODIFIED PROTECTIONS FOR DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT ARE ALSO KIND OF SHARING THE GOOGLE DOC IF YOU WILL AND SAYING HEY, HERE IS A WAY THAT YOU CAN -- HERE IS SOMETHING YOU CAN PROPOSE TO YOUR ELECTORATE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT THERE.

ARE STATES THAT ARE DOING THAT, AND IT'S A PART OF WHAT YOU MAY THINK OF AS THE USUAL SUSPECTS.

SO MARYLAND HAS DECLARED ITSELF AS A SANCTUARY STATE FOR TRANS PEOPLE.

MINNESOTA HAS DECLARED ITSELF THROUGH LEGISLATION A SANCTUARY FOR TRANS PEOPLE.

THAT IS TO SAY YOU COME HERE BE TREATED EQUALLY, HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, ET CETERA.

THE SAME THING ALSO HAPPENED IN SAN FRANCISCO.

THERE ARE PUSHES TO DO THAT IN EVEN MORE PLACES.

SO I THINK THAT WE ARE SEEING THAT PUSHBACK.

BUT I THINK THAT IT'S ALSO WITH A HINT OF SADNESS BECAUSE PEOPLE DESERVE TO LIVE IN PLACES THAT THEY CALL HOME.

AND YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE TURNED INTO A POLITICAL REFUGEE IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE YOUR LOCAL STATE LEGISLATURE HAS DECIDED THAT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE EQUAL ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE OR EQUAL RIGHTS OR SHARE IN THE PUBLIC SPACE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

AND SO WHILE THOSE ARE HOPEFUL SIGNS, WE ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE PAIN OF PEOPLE WHO LITERALLY I HAVE TALKED TO PARENTS WHO STARING UP AT THE CEILING AT NIGHT, WONDERING IF IT'S TIME FOR THEM TO MOVE THEIR ENTIRE FAMILY TO ANOTHER STATE WHEN THEY'VE LIVED, FOR INSTANCE, IN TEXAS FOR FIVE GENERATIONS.

>> SPEAKING OF SOLUTIONS, YOU'RE THE CREATOR OF TRANSLASH MEDIA, AND THERE IS A NEW DOCUMENTARY THAT IS GOING TO BE ON PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY THIS WEEK, AND IT'S CALLED "AMERICAN PROBLEMS, TRANS SOLUTIONS."

AND YOU LOOKED AT A FEW DIFFERENT CHARACTERS AND KIND OF THE INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS THAT THEY'RE BRINGING IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHARACTERS YOU SPOKE WITH.

>> THEY'RE AMAZING.

THEY'RE A PART OF THE HOPE THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THE LIGHTS IN THIS MOMENT.

THEY'RE THREE POWERFUL PEOPLE.

OLUCHI OMEOGA, WHO IS OF NIGERIAN DESCENT, EMIGRATED TO THIS COUNTRY, HIS ENTIRE FAMILY, WHO IS WORKING ON ISSUES OF MIGRATION.

>> WHEN I LOOK BACK ON MY LIFE, I REALLY WANT TO SAY WE SHIFTED HOW PEOPLE SEE BLACK TRANS PEOPLE, HOW PEOPLE SEE MIGRANT FOLKS.

>> WE HAVE KAYLA GORMAN WHO HAS AN ENTIRE PROGRAM TO TURN PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS INTO HOMEOWNERS BY BUILDING AND GIFTING TINY HOUSES TO TRANS PEOPLE, IMMEDIATELY GIVING THEM ACCESS TO HOUSING AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.

>> HOME FOR ME MEANS SAFETY, SCORE.

IT MEANS STABILITY.

IT MEANS COMFORT.

GROWING UP, THAT WASN'T EVEN A QUESTION OF I WOULD HAVE A PLACE TO LIKE LAY MY HEAD.

BECOMING AN ADULT, I STARTED TO FACE REALITIES OF PEOPLE NOT LIKING HOW I PRESENT IN THE WORLD, AND THAT PREVENTED ME FROM HAVING HOUSING.

>> AND LASTLY, BREANNA McREE WHO IS IN SAN FRANCISCO WHO THREW THE TRANSGENDER DISTRICT THERE HAS AN INCUBATOR PROGRAM FOR TRANS ENTREPRENEURS WHERE ONCE YOU GO THROUGH THIS PROGRAM, YOU GET $10,000 TO START YOUR BUSINESS IN A WAY TO TRY TO AVOID THE DISCRIMINATION AND THE NEED TO DO THINGS LIKEN GAUGE IN SEX WORK, IF THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO DO, BECAUSE YOU'RE ABLE TO INNOVATE AND HAVE THAT FUNDED AND FINANCED.

>> THERE SEEM TO BE SOME NEW BUILDINGS LIKE THERE IS A NEW HOTEL.

AND I WAS LIKE IS THERE A GENTRIFICATION CREEPING INTO THIS AREA?

>> GENTRIFICATION IS ALWAYS CREEPING IN SAN FRANCISCO.

BUT WE ARE TRYING TO GET CITY OFFICIALS ALSO TO GIVE OUR FOLKS SOME OF THAT MONEY.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> THROUGH GRANTS SO THEY CAN OWN STOREFRONTS ALSO.

WHY NOT HELP THE TRANS DISTRICT SUPPORT FOLKS IN THAT EFFORT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> SO I THINK THESE ARE ALL REALLY POWERFUL EXAMPLES.

AND WHAT REALLY DREW ME TO THEM IS THEY'RE NOT ONLY EXAMPLES FOR THE TRANS COMMUNITY, BUT PERHAPS FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

AND IN MANY WAYS, THE WORLD.

FINDING WAYS TO PROVIDE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY THROUGH ENTREPRENEURSHIP GRANTS AND TRAINING, GIFTING HOUSES, HUMANE MIGRATION, THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT NOT ONLY ARE NEEDED BY TRANS PEOPLE, PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT ALSO PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.

>> DRAW ON THAT CONNECTION IF YOU WILL BETWEEN THE CLIMATE THAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY AND THE WORLD THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE SPEARHEADING RIGHT NOW.

>> I THINK THAT FOR ME THE CONNECTION IS THAT WHEN THINGS FAIL FOR YOU, WHEN SOCIETY FUNDAMENTALLY IS NOT ALLOWING YOU TO PARTICIPATE, IT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE THE THINGS THAT ARE THE IMPEDIMENTS THAT AREN'T WORKING, AND THEN IF YOU HAVE AN ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT, TO FIND WAYS TO TRY TO INNOVATE AROUND THOSE.

AND I FIND WHAT'S FASCINATING IS THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST MARGINALIZED PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY.

AND ALL OF THEIR STORIES HAVE EXTREME MOMENTS OF PAIN AND DISENFRANCHISEMENT.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEY HAVE DECIDED TO NOT ONLY TRY TO INNOVATE AROUND THE EXPERIENCES THAT THEY HAD, BUT ALSO TO DO SO IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS OTHER PEOPLE TO NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT AND NOT ONLY TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE.

AND I THINK THAT'S SUCH A POWERFUL AND HOPEFUL STORY ABOUT HOW WE CAN TRANSFORM DARKNESS AND PAIN INTO WAYS TO UPLIFT EVERYONE.

>> THE DOCUMENTARY IS CALLED "AMERICAN PROBLEMS, TRANS SOLUTIONS."

IMARA JONES OF TRANSLASH MEDIA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, AS WE'VE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE PROGRAM, ACTIVISM CAN TAKE PLACE WHEREVER, WHENEVER.

FOR INSTANCE, ALONG THE OFTEN GRIMY BANKS OF THE RIVER THAMES HERE IN LONDON, STUDENTS AS PART OF THE CLIMATE ACTION WEEK.

THESE YOUNG DANCERS FROM THE ACCLAIMED CENTRAL SCHOOL OF BALLET MOVED TOGETHER ON THE SHORES TO INSPIRE HOPE AND TO URGE PEOPLE TO TAKE STEPS TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE.

NOW THE CHOREOGRAPHER DANIEL DAVIDSON SAYS IT'S BEEN REALLY INTERESTING SETTING THIS WORK IN A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT AND SEEING WHAT THAT DOZEN TO THE WORLD, BUT ALSO HOW IT ENGAGES WITH THE AUDIENCE, PASSERS BY.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT FROM LONDON.