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>>> HELLO, WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
>> I GOT MORE WORK TO DO.
WE GOT MORE WORK TO FINISH.
>> JOE BIDEN REMAINS RESOLUTE AMID MOUNTING CALLS FOR HIM TO DROP OUT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.
HOW CAN DEMOCRATS RESOLVE THIS CRISIS AND MOVE ON?
I ASK POLITICAL STRATEGIST PAUL BEGALA.
>>> REUNITED AFTER EIGHT MONTHS OF CAPTIVITY.
IN AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW I SPEAK TO RESCUED ISRAEL HOSTAGE ANDREY KOZLOV ABOUT BEING TAKEN BY HAMAS FOLLOWING THE OCTOBER 7 MUSIC FESTIVAL ATTACK.
>>> I HAVE TO SAY THAT I CAN'T RECALL A TIME WHEN REPUBLICANS WERE FEELING MORE OPTIMISTIC THAN THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.
WALTER ISAACSON TALKS TO CHARLIE SYKES ABOUT THE UPCOMING REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION.
>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
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THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
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KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
PRESSURE IS BUILDING FOR JOE BIDEN TO QUIT THE RACE.
HE MADE IT CLEAR, HE IS NOT GIVING UP.
HERE IS WHAT HE SAID IN THE MUCH ANTICIPATED NATO PRESS CONFERENCE LAST NIGHT.
>> THERE WERE FIVE PRESIDENTS RUNNING OR INCUMBENT PRESIDENTS RUNNING WHO HAD LOWER NUMBERS THAN I HAVE NOW LATER IN THE CAMPAIGN.
THERE'S A LONG WAY TO GO IN THIS CAMPAIGN.
I'M JUST GOING TO KEEP MOVING.
KEEP MOVING AND BECAUSE, LOOK, I GOT MORE WORK TO DO.
WE GOT MORE WORK TO FINISH.
>> SPEAKING FOR ALMOST AN HOUR, THE PRESIDENT PUT ON A COMPETENT SHOW.
HIS BLUNDERS REMAIN THE MOST MEMORABLE TAKEAWAY.
LIKE ACCIDENTALLY REFERRING TO HIS VICE PRESIDENT, KAMALA HARRIS, AS VICE PRESIDENT TRUMP, COMPOUNDED BY AN EARLIER MISTAKE CALLING UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY PRESIDENT PUTIN.
NOW AT LEAST 18 DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS ARE CALLING FOR THE PRESIDENT TO WITHDRAW FROM THE WHITE HOUSE RACE, INCLUDING JIM HIMES, THE RESPECTED RANKING MEMBER OF THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE.
WHAT NOW FOR JOE BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?
STRATEGIST PAUL BEGALA WAS A COUNSELOR TO BILL CLINTON AND IS A POLITICAL ANALYST.
HE IS WRESTLING WITH THIS UNPRECEDENTED CHALLENGE.
PAUL, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.
AS WE HEARD FROM CONGRESSMAN HIMES YESTERDAY, CLEARLY, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THAT STATEMENT WAS WRITTEN BEFORE THE PRESS CONFERENCE.
HE SENT IT ONCE IT FINISHED.
HE SAID AS MUCH AFTERWARDS IN INTERVIEWS, THAT IT DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH TO DO WITH HIS PERFORMANCE IN THAT ONE NIGHT.
HE WAS LOOKING AT ALL OF THE OTHER EVIDENCE, ALL OF THE OTHER POLLING, THE MONTHS OF CONCERNS SURROUNDING THE PRESIDENT'S MENTAL ACUITY AND OBVIOUSLY HIS AGE.
LET'S PLAY WHAT HE SAID.
I WANT TO GET YOUR RESPONSE.
>> NOW I WANT TO HAND IT OVER TO THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE, WHO HAS AS MUCH COURAGE AS HE HAS DETERMINATION, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PRESIDENT PUTIN.
PRESIDENT PUTIN?
GOING TO BEAT PRESIDENT PUTIN.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.
LOOK, I WORNTULDN'T HAVE PICKED VICE PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BE PRESIDENT IF I DIDN'T THINK SHE WAS QUALIFIED TO BE PRESIDENT.
LET'S START THERE.
>> ALL I CAN DO IS LOOK AT THE NUMBERS RIGHT NOW.
NO PRESIDENT HAS EVER WON WITH A 37% APPROVAL RATING.
LOOK AT THE SWING STATES.
THIS ISN'T A RACE THAT'S DECIDED IN FIVE OR SIX STATES.
IMAGINE THREE MONTHS FROM NOW WE GET ANOTHER PERFORMANCE LIKE THERE WAS IN THE DEBATE.
RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION.
DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT RISK?
I DON'T.
>> PAUL BEGALA, A LONGTIME DEMOCRAT, LOYAL DEMOCRAT ST STRATEGIST, ADVISOR.
DO YOU AGREE WITH JIM HIMES?
DO YOU AGREE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT SAYS HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN DO THIS JOB?
>> THERE'S ONLY ONE VOTE.
IT'S NOT MINE.
IT'S JOE BIDEN'S.
I HOPE HE IS LISTENING TO HIS CRITICS.
WHEN I WORKED FOR PRESIDENT CLINTON, HE WOULD SAY, BEN FRANKLIN SAID YOU SHOULD THANK YOUR CRITICS BECAUSE THEY POINT OUT YOUR FLAWS.
I THINK HE NEEDS TO LISTEN.
I THOUGHT HE SHOWED SUBSTANTIVE MASTERY AT THAT PRESS CONFERENCE LAST NIGHT.
HE CLEARLY IS UP TO THE JOB OF BEING LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.
I THOUGHT HE LED THE FREE WORLD WONDERFULLY.
AS SOON AS IT ENDED, HE LOST THREE MORE OF HIS MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY FOR HIS OWN RE-ELECTION.
WHY?
BECAUSE IT WAS A TACTICAL SOLUTION TO AN EXISTENTIAL PROBLEM.
RIGHT?
THE CONCERN THAT CONGRESSMAN HIMES, WHO YOU KNOW THIS, BUT HE IS THE RANKING MEMBER, TOP DEMOCRAT ON THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE.
SO THE ISSUES HE IS RAISING ARE EXISTENTIAL.
NANCY PELOSI SAID IT BEST TEN DAYS AGO.
SHE SAID, IS THIS AN EPISODE, THE DEBATE PERFORMANCE, OR IS IT A CONDITION?
GEORGE CLOONEY SAYS IT'S A CONDITION.
CLOONEY SAYS HE HOSTED HIM AT A FUND RA FUND FUND-RAISER.
YOU ARE SEEING DEMOCRATS MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.
WILL JOE BIDEN LISTEN TO THEM?
I HAVE NO IDEA.
>> CONGRESSMAN HIMES AND GEORGE CLOONEY ARE NOT PHYSICIANS.
THE PRESIDENT SAID HE SPOKE AND MET WITH PHYSICIANS AND NEUROLOGISTS IN THE PAST.
THAT HE WOULD BE OPEN FOR ANOTHER EXAMINATION IF THEY CAME TO HIM AND SAID THAT HE SHOULD HAVE ONE.
HE SAID, THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.
NANCY PELOSI AND REPRESENTATIVE CLYBURN SAID HE IS ALL IN FOR BIDEN AND HIS SUPPORT REALLY HELPED SAVE HIS LAST CAMPAIGN IN 2020, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CRUCIAL BLACK VOTE.
THEN HE WENT ON TO SAY, JUST LIKE NANCY PELOSI, THAT JOE BIDEN SHOULD MAKE HIS OWN DECISIONS ABOUT HIS FUTURE.
WHAT I'M STUMPED ON, PAUL, IS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS MADE HIS DECISION.
HE HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR.
HE IS NOT SAYING I'M LISTENING, I'M THINKING ABOUT IT, I'M DEBATING, I'M OPEN TO CHANGING MY MIND.
HE SAID, I AM ALL IN.
HOW SHOULD WE BE READING, HOW ARE YOU READING AND PARSING THESE WORDS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE REAL JOE BIDEN SUPPORTERS, PEOPLE THAT HAVE LOVED HIM AND VIEWED HE DID A VERY GOOD JOB THESE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THERE'S NO WAY JOE BIDEN BECOMES PRESIDENT WITHOUT JIM CLYBURN.
THERE'S NO WAY JOE BIDEN BECOMES A SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENT WITHOUT NANCY PELOSI.
THESE ARE NOT SWING VOTERS.
THESE AREN'T REPUBLICANS.
THESE ARE THE MOST LOYAL PEOPLE IN JOE BIDEN'S PRESIDENCY.
THEY CLEARLY OPENING THE DOOR.
YOU ARE RIGHT.
YOU PARSE WHAT NANCY PELOSI SAID.
HE HAS AN IMPORTANT DECISION TO MAKE.
AFTER HE HAD SAID HE MADE A DECISION.
SHE'S ESSENTIALLY GIVING HIM PERMISSION.
IN ADDITION TO BEING THE GREATEST LEGISLATIVE LEADER IN ALL OF AMERICAN HISTORY, NANCY PELOSI RAISED FIVE KIDS.
I RAISED FOUR.
WHEN THEY BECOME ADULTS, YOU START TO LEARN THAT PERMISSION IS MORE POWERFUL THAN PRESSURE.
I THINK VERY WISELY, MR. CLYBURN, NANCY PELOSI, INSTEAD OF PUSHING THIS PROUD, POWERFUL MAN, IN WHICH HE WOULD DIG HIS HEELS IN, THEY ARE REMINDING HIM OF WHAT A SUCCESS HE HAS BEEN AND THEY ARE REMINDING HIM OF THE STAKES THAT MORE AND MORE -- GRASS-ROOTS DEMOCRATS, THE MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS THINK HE IS TOO OLD TO CARRY THE FIGHT TO DONALD TRUMP.
IT'S THE FEAR OF TRUMP THAT'S DRIVING OUR POLITICS TODAY IN MY PARTY.
>> THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN OUTSPOKEN, AGGRESSIVE AND DEFENSIVE THIS WEEK GOING OUT ON TELEVISION INTERVIEWS AND SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE ELITE IN THE PARTY.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GRASS-ROOTS AND THE EVERYDAY VOTERS.
THE VOTERS ARE SPEAKING AS WELL.
A LOT OF THE CONCERN FROM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS COMES FROM THESE VOTERS, PARTICULARLY IN VULNERABLE AREAS, VULNERABLE DISTRICTS IN SWING STATES THE PRESIDENT HAS TO WIN.
HE IS TRAVELING TO MICHIGAN TODAY.
HE WILL GO TO TEXAS NEXT WEEK.
I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU SOME SOUND FROM A FOCUS GROUP LAST NIGHT IN RESPONSE TO FOLLOWING THAT PRESS CONFERENCE AND SOME VOTERS' CONCERNS AND VIEWS ON THE PRESIDENT TODAY.
>> WHAT EMOTION DOES HE EVOKE IN YOU WHEN YOU SEE HIM ON TV?
FILL IN THE BLANK.
WHEN I SEE PRESIDENT BIDEN ON TV I FEEL X.
>> WORRIED.
>> RESPECT AND SADNESS.
>> SCARED.
>> EMBARRASSES.
>> PITY AND DISGUST ROLLED INTO ONE.
>> THE PRESIDENT, LIKE ALL OF US, CAN'T AGE BACKWARDS.
ALL OF THOSE CONCERNS THAT THEY HAVE JUST LAID OUT, I WOULD IMAGINE WOULD ONLY EXACERBATE AS TIME GOES BY.
CAN THE PRESIDENT CHANGE THAT?
>> I DON'T THINK HE CAN, TO BE CANDID.
IT IS EXISTENTIAL.
I WORKED FOR BILL CLINTON.
VOTERS IN HIS FIRST TERM THOUGHT HE HAD GOTTEN TOO LIBERAL.
SO HE PIVOTED TO THE CENTER.
JOE CAN'T PIVOT TO BEING 45 AGAIN.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
MOST OF US HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THESE IMPORTANT NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES WHERE HE HAS LED SO MASTERFULLY OR THE DOMESTIC ISSUES.
ALL OF US LOVE SOMEONE WHO HAS AGED OR WHO IS AGING.
WE HAVE ALL HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH OUR GRANDPA, MOM, UNCLE FRED.
THIS IS A UNIVERSAL EXPERIENCE, AGING.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
DEMOCRATS' OPPONENT IS DONALD TRUMP.
JOE BIDEN'S OPPONENT IS FATHER TIME.
FATHER TIME IS UNDEFEATED.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM HE FACES.
>> WE ALSO KNOW ONCE THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING HAD WITH YOUR GRANDFATHER OR YOUR GRANDMOTHER, IT SORT OF -- THE GAME IS OVER AT THAT POINT.
RARELY DO YOU HEAR THEM GIVING THEM AND ALLOWING THEM TO TAKE THE CAR KEYS AND NOT BEING CONCERNED ANYMORE ABOUT THEIR ABILITY TO DRIVE.
THE PRESIDENT REMAINS DEFIANT.
IT SEEMS HE IS FOCUSED ON CERTAIN POLLING THAT BENEFITS HIM.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A POLL THAT JUST CAME OUT TODAY THAT DOES JUST THAT, AN NPR POLL THAT SAID -- IT'S A NATIONAL POLL.
WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR.
BUT IT SHOWS THE PRESIDENT LEADING DONALD TRUMP 50% TO 48%.
IN RESPONSE TO THAT, A VERY CLOSE ALLY AND CONFIDANTE TO PRESIDENT BIDEN, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, HAS HELPED HIM OVER THE YEARS AND IN HIS DEBATE PREP FOR THE DEBATE TWO WEEKS AGO, HE TWEETED IN RESPONSE TO THIS, WITH YESTERDAY'S PRESS CONFERENCE AND THIS POLL, IT'S TIME TO END THE FREAKOUT AND UNITE BEHIND THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE AND THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS EVER BEATEN TRUMP.
HOW DO YOU READ THESE CONFLICTING POLLS?
>> THEY ARE CONFLICTING.
I LOVE RON.
HE IS A DEAR FRIEND.
BUT HE KNOWS THAT'S NOT GOING TO END ANYTHING.
THESE ARE GOOD POLLS FOR BIDEN.
HE IS TIED ESSENTIALLY IN AN ABC POLL AND THIS POLL FROM NPR.
HERE IS THE THING.
FOUR YEARS AGO HE WAS AHEAD BY TEN.
HE WON THE ELECTION BY THREE.
POLLING HAS NOT BEEN ACCURATE IN THE AGE OF TRUMP, WHEN TRUMP IS ON THE BALLOT.
WHEN HE IS NOT, POLLSTERS GET IT RIGHT.
THERE'S VERY OFTEN -- NOT VERY OFTEN, ALWAYS THIS CUSHION OF LOW PROPENSITY VOTERS WHO WE DON'T CATCH IN OUR POLLS WHO TURN OUT FOR MR. TRUMP.
BIDEN WAS LEADING BY TEN FOUR YEARS AGO.
HE WON BY THREE.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT SAME CUSHION IS THERE.
WE DON'T KNOW IS THE HONEST ANSWER.
IF IT'S PLUS ONE OR MINUS ONE, PLUS TWO OR MINUS TWO NATIONALLY, IT'S CLOSER IN THE SWING STATES.
DEMOCRATS REALLY BELIEVE, ALL OF THEM FROM THE GRASS-ROOTS UP TO GEORGE CLOONEY AND NANCY PELOSI, THAT DONALD TRUMP IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY.
THEY DON'T THINK HE HAS BAD TAX POLICY.
THEY THINK HE WILL END THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT.
I THINK THEY ARE RIGHT.
THAT'S WHY THIS IS SO DIRE FOR DEMOCRATS.
THERE'S THESE TERRIBLY CONFLICTING EMOTIONS.
THERE'S THIS TERRIBLE FEAR OF TRUMP AND CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE IN THEIR VIEW THAT HE WILL END THE DEMOCRACY.
THEN THERE'S THIS DEEP LOVE AND AFFECTION FOR BIDEN.
BIDEN HAS BEEN THIS A LONG TIME.
HE IS A REALLY GOOD PERSON.
EVERY DEMOCRAT HAS HAD AN INTERACTION WITH HIM THAT HAS BEEN WONDERFUL AND LOVING AND EMPATHETIC.
HE HAS BEEN VERY IMPRESSIVE IN HIS PERFORMANCE AS PRESIDENT.
THIS IS THE WAR GOING ON IN EVERY DEMOCRATS' HEART.
PRESIDENT BIDEN IS LISTENING TO HALF OF THOSE EMOTIONS AND NOT THE OTHER HALF.
>> YEAH.
LAST REMAINING 20 SECONDS OR SO, PAUL, THE LONGER THIS GOES ON, THE MORE -- THE PARTY IS GOING TO KNEECAP THEIR OWN PRESIDENT IF THIS CONTINUES.
HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THAT THIS HEMORRHAGING CAN CONTINUE BEFORE A FINAL DECISION IS MADE?
ON EITHER SIDE.
>> EVEN -- LET'S SAY A FINAL DECISION IS MADE AND PRESIDENT BIDEN CONTINUES TO RUN, WHICH IS WHERE HE WANTS TO GO.
CONFIRMATION BIAS IS THE MOST POWERFUL DRUG THERE IS.
SO EVERY TIME ANYBODY SEES EVEN A NORMAL STUMBLE OR GAFFE, RIGHT, VOTERS ARE GOING TO USE THAT AS CONFIRMATION BIAS FOR THEIR FEAR THAT HE IS TOO OLD FOR THE JOB.
THAT WILL NEVER GO AWAY.
THAT'S THE EXISTENTIAL CRISIS THE BIDEN N CANDIDACY FACES.
>> A LOT IS WHAT BIDEN HAS ALWAYS DONE THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER IS FUMBLE WORDS.
PAUL BEGALA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
GREAT TO SEE YOU.
>> THANKS.
GREAT TO SEE YOU, TOO.
>>> WE TURN TO GAGA, WHERE 120 HOSTAGES ARE STILL BEING HELD BY HAMAS.
THEIR FATE IN LIMBO.
IN HIS OPENING REMARKS, PRESIDENT BIDEN SPOKE OF HIS DETERMINATION TO GET A CEASE-FIRE DEAL, SAYING, THERE ARE GAPS TO CLOSE, WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS.
BEHIND AT LEAST SOME OF THE GAPS IS BELIEVED TO BE BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, WHO REPORTEDLY HARDENED HIS DEMANDS FOR A HOSTAGE DEAL ONCE AGAIN.
THIS WEEK, I SPOKE WITH RESCUED H HOSTAGE ANDREY KOZLOV.
HE HAD BEEN IN ISRAEL FOR ABOUT A YEAR WHEN HE WAS TAKEN FROM THE MUSIC FESTIVAL ON OCTOBER 7.
ALONG WITH THREE OTHERS, HE WAS RESCUED FROM GAZA'S NUSEIRAT CAMP ON JUNE 8.
HE SHARED HIS EXPERIENCE WITH ME.
I STARTED BY ASKING HOW HE WAS FEELING AFTER JUST ONE MONTH OF FREEDOM.
>> EVERY DAY I FEEL MUCH BETTER THAN THE LAST ONE.
I APPRECIATE ALL THAT I HAVE RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T FORGET NOTHING.
BUT SOME DAY, EVEN I FEEL GOOD, AND SOME -- I CAN START TO CRY.
IF I HEAR SOME SONG THAT I REMEMBER, IF I SEE SOME PHOTOS FROM MY PREVIOUS LIFE BEFORE GAZA THAT I REMEMBER, OF COURSE, WHEN I WAS IN GAZA, IT'S LIKE MAIN REASONS OF MY TEARS.
>> ONCE YOU GOT INTO GAZA, WHAT HAPPENED?
>> WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE WALL, THROUGH THE GATE, WE SAW BIG FIELD.
THIS FIELD WAS FULL OF PEOPLE, CIVILIAN PEOPLE PROBABLY.
I DON'T KNOW.
THEY WERE REALLY HAPPY.
THEY HAD SAVAGE ENERGY.
THEY WERE REALLY LIKE, ROAR.
I HOLD HANDLE OF THE CAR.
SOMEBODY STARTED TO ROAR.
>> WERE YOU SCARED?
>> IT WAS CONDITION OF SHOCK.
I WAS NOT SCARED.
I DIDN'T REALIZE WHAT'S GOING ON.
THEY TOOK US.
THEY TIED UP HANDS LIKE THIS, PUT US ON THE FLOOR.
I STARTED TO EXPLAIN, I'M RUSSIAN.
I DON'T SPEAK HEBREW.
I SPEAK RUSSIAN AND ENGLISH TO EXPLAIN THEM.
WHAT CAN WE DO?
SOME GUY FROM THE LEFT SIDE OF ME.
HE HAS GUN.
I TRIED TO TOUCH HIM AND ASK HIM, YOU, US, KILL US?
>> YOU ASKED HIM IF THEY WERE PLANNING TO KILL YOU?
>> YEAH.
I ASK HIM.
IT'S ONLY THOUGHT I HAD.
WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH US?
IN COUPLE OF HOURS, THEY BROUGHT -- THE SAME DAY, SOME MOMENT, ONE GUY HE WAS -- I WAS REALLY SCARED ABOUT HIM.
I WAS REALLY AFRAID.
HE TOOK FABRIC FROM MY EYES.
SHOWED ME WITH SIGNS, I, TOMORROW, YOU.
I WILL FILM YOU.
I WILL KILL YOU.
IT WAS THURSDAY OF OUR BEING IN GAZA.
>> YOUR MOM SAID YOU WERE TIED UP LIKE THAT FOR TWO MONTHS.
>> THE FIRST THREE DAYS WAS ROPES.
UNTIL MIDDLE OF DECEMBER, WE WERE IN CHAINS.
>> YOU WERE TIED WITH CHAINS?
>> WITH CHAINS.
THEY WERE AFRAID THAT WE WILL RUN AWAY.
MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IN DECEMBER, THEY TOOK OFF AND WE WERE FREE.
>> ALWAYS THE THREE OF YOU TOGETHER?
>> YEAH.
SOME DAYS, IN THREE DAYS, THEY STARTED TO TREAT US LITTLE BIT BETTER.
THEY STARTED TO GIVE US FOOD.
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT PROBABLY THEY ARE NOT GOING TO KILL US.
WE ARE KIDNAPPED.
THEY EXPLAIN TO US, WE WANT TO CHANGE.
WITH SIGNS.
YOU ARE GOING TO ISRAEL.
OUR PEOPLE GO TO GAZA AND TO WEST BANK.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
WHEN WE WILL GO HOME.
YOU ASK THEM, WHAT'S GOING ON OUTSIDE?
THEY TOLD US SOME NEWS THAT IS GOING ON BETWEEN GAZA AND ISRAEL, BETWEEN USA AND ISRAEL.
THIS EIGHT MONTHS WE HAD WAVES OF OUR MOOD.
WE HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS.
AFTER, NOTHING.
THE DEAL BROKEN.
SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED.
BUMP.
SHOOTING OUTSIDE.
A LOT OF BOMBS.
IN THE NIGHT, YOU WAKE UP LIKE IT WAS A LOT OF TIMES IN DIFFERENT PLACES.
YOU WOKE UP, YOU WAKE UP, AND BECAUSE OF THE REALLY BIG BOMB, FALL DOWN 50 METERS, MAYBE 100.
IT'S SOUND FROM HELL.
YOU WAKE UP, YOU HAVE HEART RATE, PULSE, MAYBE 200.
YOU HAVE EYES LIKE THIS.
EVERYBODY WOKE UP AND WE DON'T TALK.
ONLY ONE THOUGHT WE HAVE -- I HAD, PROBABLY EVERYBODY HAD, MAYBE THE NEXT BOMB WILL BE OURS.
>> OBVIOUSLY, YOU WERE AWARE THERE WAS NOW A WAR GOING ON.
THESE WERE THE IDF BOMBS THAT YOU WERE HEARING.
IT GAVE YOU HEART PALPITATIONS.
WERE YOU AFRAID YOU WERE GOING TO DIE ANY ONE OF THOSE DAYS?
>> FIRST THREE MONTHS WE WERE AFRAID OF EVERY BOMB THAT WE HEARD.
EVERY TIME YOU STARTED TO HIDE IN THE CORNERS OF OUR ROOM.
TERRORISTS, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID?
BUT WE UNDERSTOOD IT.
>> THE DOCTORS, YOUR MOM SAID THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE CONDUCTED AND ABUSE.
HOW OFTEN WOULD YOU HEAR THINGS LIKE THAT?
HOW DID IT MAKE YOU FEEL?
>> NOT FROM EVERYBODY.
SOME OF THEM, THE LAST ONE, THE LAST MAIN BAD GUY WHO WAS WITH US IN THE LAST OUR PLACE, HE TOLD US A LOT LIKE, ISRAEL WANTS TO KILL US.
WE ARE PROBLEM FOR ISRAEL.
THEY TRY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM WITH THE WAY OF BOMB.
YOUR FAMILY DOESN'T TRY TO FIND YOU.
THEY SAID THAT YOUR WIFE IS PROBABLY LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE.
>> DID YOU EVER BELIEVE IT?
>> I TRY NOT TO BELIEVE IN THIS.
I WAS SURE THAT MY FAMILY IS LOOKING FOR ME.
I WAS SURE THAT WIFE KEEP GOING AND TRY TO FIND.
I WAS SURE ISRAEL DOESN'T WANT TO KILL US.
BUT THEY TOLD US THIS A LOT.
>> DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER HOSTAGES IN YOUR EIGHT MONTHS THERE?
>> I SAW.
I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
>> TOO PAINFUL OR BECAUSE YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THEM?
>> IT'S PAINFUL.
IT CAN BE DANGEROUS FOR THEM.
I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
>> WERE THEY IN WORSE SHAPE THAN YOU WERE?
>> YES, THEY WERE.
>> MANY?
>> NOT MANY.
>> WHEN DID YOU MOVE?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
IF YOU MEAN THE LAST PLACE, IT STARTED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DECEMBER.
THIS APARTMENT WAS REALLY BIG.
MAYBE 180 AND ONE HALF -- IN ONE OF THE HALF WE WERE, WE TOOK PLACE, AND ANOTHER HALF IT WAS FOR FAMILY.
REALLY DIDN'T SEE FACES, BECAUSE WE WERE SEPARATED WITH THE DOOR.
>> YOU NEVER SAW THEM?
>> WE DIDN'T SEE THEM NEVER.
>> TELL ME ABOUT THAT DAY OF THE RESCUE, JUNE 8.
>> WE WERE SURE IN THAT DAY, IN 8 OF THE JUNE, THAT IT WAS REGULAR MORNING.
I WAS READING SOME BOOK ABOUT MARCO POLO.
>> THEY GAVE YOU BOOKS?
>> A COUPLE.
THEY GAVE US BOOK ONLY IN APRIL.
THEY GAVE US STORIES.
YOU CAN READ.
YOU CANNOT READ.
WE DON'T CARE.
WE READ IT.
OF COURSE, WE READ BECAUSE IT'S TO TAKE OUR MIND WITH SOMETHING.
SOMETIMES, SUDDENLY, LITTLE EXPLOSIONS.
THEY ALREADY INSIDE.
I WAS -- WHAT'S GOING ON?
WHAT'S GOING ON?
A LITTLE FREEZED.
YOU ARE IN SHOCK.
YOU ARE AFRAID, OF COURSE, OF COURSE.
IF IT'S ISRAEL ARMY, I THOUGHT THAT THEY TOLD US THAT IF THEY COME TO RESCUE, WE WILL KILL YOU.
DON'T THINK THAT WE WILL GIVE THEM THE RESCUE.
I UNDERSTOOD THAT.
I PRAYED.
THEY HAD COUPLE OF SECONDS TO KILL US.
>> THEY WERE IN THE ROOM WITH YOU?
>> NOT IN THE SAME ROOM.
THEY HAVE FIVE METERS.
ONE SHOOT.
BUT THEY DIDN'T DO THIS.
THEY WERE KILLED MAYBE IN FIVE SECONDS.
THEY STARTED TO ASK OUR NAMES.
>> ANDREY, ANDREY.
THIS IS REAL ARMY.
SOME GUY, HE WAS RUSSIAN SPEAKER, HE ASKED ME, ANDREY, ANDREY?
HE TOLD ME IN RUSSIAN, I WILL TRANSLATE YOU.
I WILL GO WITH YOU.
YOU WILL GO WITH ME, ONLY WITH ME.
TWO METERS MAXIMUM FROM ME.
WE WILL RESCUE.
TODAY, YOU WILL BE AT HOME.
AT HOME?
TODAY?
TODAY?
REALLY?
YES, YES.
OKAY.
LET'S GO.
LET'S DO IT.
LET'S DO IT.
AFTER THEY DID WHAT THEY DID, WHAT I CAME TO SAY THAT I SMOKE.
IT WAS LIKE, SMOKE.
>> YOU SMOKED A CIGARETTE?
>> YEAH.
>> DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO OF YOUR RESCUE?
>> A LOT OF TIMES.
A LOT OF TIMES.
EVEN TODAY.
>> WHY?
>> IT'S SOMETHING GREAT.
IT WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL FOR ME.
IT'S MY THIRD BIRTHDAY.
FIRST ONE WAS ON 7 OF OCTOBER.
THIRD ONE IN THE 8 OF JUNE.
OF COURSE, I REMEMBER.
I MADE THIS TATTOO.
IT'S SCARS I GOT FROM 7 OF OCTOBER WHEN I FALL FROM THE CLIFF AND SOME BUSHES CUT MY SKIN.
>> WE SAW THE VIDEO OF WHEN YOU WERE REUNITED WITH YOUR MOTHER AT THE HOSPITAL.
AS A MOTHER, IT BROUGHT TEARS TO MY EYES TO SEE HOW YOU FELL DOWN ON YOUR KNEES, HUGGING HER.
DO YOU KNOW DIFFICULT -- I WOULD IMAGINE YOU DO -- THOSE EIGHT MONTHS WERE FOR THEM?
>> I WAS SO AFRAID NOT TO SEE THEM.
>> YOU THOUGHT YOU WOULD NEVER SEE THEM AGAIN?
>> I WAS AFRAID.
I IMAGINED HOW -- THAT MY MOTHER AND FATHER AND BROTHER, THEY WILL NOT HEAR THE WORDS I LOVE YOU ANYMORE.
I KNOW THAT 120 HOSTAGES ARE STILL THERE.
FORTUNATELY, FOR ME, I WAS LUCKY.
UNFORTUNATELY FOR THEM, THEY ARE STILL IN GAZA.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY WILL COME BACK.
IT'S ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING AND TERRIBLE FEELINGS.
I DON'T IMAGINE HOW IT -- HOW TO LIVE IN TUNNELS.
WE NEED TO BRING THEM HOME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
THEY CAN DIE THERE AFTER MONTS.
THEY ARE WAITING.
THEY KEEP GOING AND THEY -- ALL OF THEM, THEY ALREADY STRONG.
BUT SOME OF THEM, THEY DON'T HAVE TIME.
SO WE NEED DEAL.
>> ANDREY TOLD ME HE THINKS ABOUT THE REMAINING HOSTAGES EVERY DAY.
HE IS SO GRATEFUL HE HAD TWO OTHERS WITH HIM THROUGHOUT THE EIGHT MONTHS.
I ASKED IF HE HAS SPOKEN TO THEM IN THIS PAST MONTH NOW THAT HE HAS BEEN HOME.
HE SAID NO.
THEY ARE GIVING EACH OTHER THEIR WELL-DESERVED SPACE RIGHT NOW.
>>> NOW BACK TO THE UNITED STATES, AND THE EXPECTED POLITICAL DRAMA SET TO UNFOLD AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION IN WISCONSIN NEXT WEEK.
IN MANY WAYS, THE BATTLEGROUND STATE TELLS THE STORY OF THE EVOLUTION OF THE GOP THERE.
REPUBLICANS SWINGING MORE AND MORE TO THE RIGHT TO A FULL-ON EMBRACE OF DONALD TRUMP'S MAGA POLICIES.
A CLOSE OBSERVER HAS BEEN CHARLIE SYKES, FOUNDER OF THE BULWARK AND A RESPECTED VOICE AMONG NEVER-TREMORS.
>> THANK YOU.
CHARLIE SYKES, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.
>> THANK YOU.
>> RIGHT AFTER THE DEBATE THAT BIDEN HAD IN ATLANTA, YOU SAID -- YOU WROTE THAT THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE NEEDS AN INTERVENTION BECAUSE THIS CAN'T GO ON.
YOU SAID, THERE'S NO WAY TO SPIN IT AWAY.
IT WASN'T JUST A BAD NIGHT, IT WAS A DISASTER.
DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT WAY?
>> YES, I DO.
OF COURSE, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED SINCE THEN.
AT THAT MOMENT, IT WAS CLEAR THAT JOE BIDEN HAD TO DO SEVERAL THINGS.
HE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO CONVINCE HIS PARTY AND THE PUBLIC THAT HE WAS UP TO IT, THAT HE WAS UP TO ACTUALLY BEATING DONALD TRUMP IN NOVEMBER, WHICH I THINK IS CLEARLY THE PRIORITY, BUT ALSO I THINK HE HAS TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER HE IS FIT TO SERVE FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.
TO DO THAT, HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE MORE LONG-FORM INTERVIEWS LIKE WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS.
HOLD LIVE PRESS CONFERENCES LIKE ON THURSDAY.
ALSO, HAVE TRANSPARENT AND CREDIBLE MEDICAL INFORMATION.
I GUESS, MY TAKE ON ALL OF THIS IS THAT IF, IN FACT, DEMOCRATS BELIEVE AS I DO THAT DONALD TRUMP POSES AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLICAN SYSTEM, THEN THEY NEED TO ASK REALLY TOUGH QUESTIONS ABOUT JOE BIDEN.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S BEEN WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING FOR THE LAST TWO WEEKS.
>> YOU ARE UP THERE IN MILWAUKEE.
YOU STARTED YOUR POLITICAL JOURNALISM CAREER 50 YEARS AGO IN WISCONSIN.
YOU ARE KIND OF A WISCONSIN GUY.
REPUBLICAN CONVENTION NEXT WEEK WILL BE IN THIS TOWN OF MILWAUKEE.
TELL ME RIGHT NOW, WOULD BIDEN BE ABLE TO WIN WISCONSIN?
>> THINGS ARE IN FLUX.
I REMEMBER OCTOBER 7, 2016, WHERE HILLARY CLINTON WAS CLEARLY ON PATH TO A LANDSLIDE VICTORY.
THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
RIGHT NOW, IN A SNAPSHOT, REPUBLICANS ARE COMING TO MILWAUKEE SUPREMELY CONFIDENT.
THEY THINK DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO WIN.
THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT JOE BIDEN CAN WIN.
A LOT CAN HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER.
BUT I HAVE TO SAY THAT I CAN'T RECALL A TIME WHEN REPUBLICANS WERE FEELING MORE OPTIMISTIC THAN THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.
ADDING TO THE BIZARRE NATURE OF THIS BIZARRE POLITICAL YEAR.
>> WHAT'S MAKING IT SO BIZARRE?
>> EVERYTHING.
LOOK, WE KEEP SAYING TO OURSELVES THAT THERE'S NOTHING NORMAL ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.
THERE CERTAINLY IS NOT.
THERE'S NO NORMS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN SHATTERED OR THAT ARE BEING CHALLENGED.
THE FACT THAT WE ARE SITTING HERE TODAY HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT A PRESIDENTIAL RACE BETWEEN A CONVICTED FELON, A TWICE IMPEACHED, DISGRACED MAN WHO HAS BEEN FOUND LIABLE FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HE IS FACING A MAN WHOSE OWN PARTY IS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS COGNITIVE ABILITIES.
THIS IS A GREAT NATION THAT DOES FEEL LIKE IT'S SORT OF ON THE PRECIPICE.
WE ARE DEALING WITH THESE TWO MEN THAT ARE SO SUPREMELY CHALLENGED.
AGAIN, WHAT DONALD TRUMP REPRESENTS IS SOMETHING VERY MUCH OUTSIDE THE MAINSTREAM OF AMERICAN POLITICS.
>> TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
YOU WERE A REPUBLICAN.
YOU HAVE BEEN PART OF THE REPUBLICAN NEVER-TRUMP FACTION.
HOW IS IT THAT THE PARTY AND THE PARTY IN WISCONSIN, WHICH USED TO BE LED BY PEOPLE LIKE PAUL RYAN AND PRIEBUS.
HOW DID THIS HAPPEN IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?
>> YOU AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS IN THE PAST.
I HAVE TO SAY AFTER NINE YEARS, IT'S STILL CRAZY TO WATCH WHAT HAPPENED.
THE WISCONSIN REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS VERY SKEPTICAL OF DONALD TRUMP IN 2016.
YOU WILL REMEMBER HE WAS DEFEATED IN THE PRIMARY.
HE LOST BY DOUBLE DIGITS TO TED CRUZ OF ALL PEOPLE.
BECAUSE THEY SAID, THIS IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE IN MIND.
THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF CONSERVATISM THAT WE HAVE.
THERE WAS A MOMENT BACK IN 2015, I BELIEVE, WHEN WISCONSIN REPUBLICANS REALLY THOUGHT THEY WERE THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE.
PRIEBUS WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE.
PAUL RYAN WAS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
SCOTT WALKER WAS A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT.
THINK ABOUT WHERE THEY HAVE COME SINCE THEN.
WE HAVE SEEN THIS TRANSFORMATION EVERYWHERE.
IT'S REALLY DRAMATIC HERE IN WISCONSIN.
>> WHY DID THE REPUBLICAN VOTERS -- WHY DID THE PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN SO STRONGLY END UP BEING IN TRUMP'S, YOU CALL IT, TRIBE?
>> THAT OBVIOUSLY IS THE MOST DIFFICULT QUESTION.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE ELECTORATE IN PLACES LIKE WISCONSIN?
THIS IS A REASONABLE PLACE.
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PLACES THAT HAD BEEN MAGA FOR YEARS.
THIS IS A STATE THAT HAS SEEN REFORM REPUBLICANS THAT HAS NOT ALWAYS GONE ALONG.
THIS IS A STATE THAT BARACK OBAMA WON TWICE.
WHAT DID THEY SAY?
I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF PUSH AND PULL.
IT WAS A COMBINATION OF DISILLUSIONMENT AND DISAFFECTION FROM WHAT THEY SAW AS A DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT WAS NO LONGER TALKING TO THEM.
BUT ALSO, THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP'S APPROACH TO IMMIGRATION AND OTHER ISSUES THAT APPEALED TO THEM.
HE TOUCHED SOMETHING THAT I THINK HAD BEEN LATENT IN REPUBLICAN CONSERVATISM FOR A LONG TIME.
I WILL ADMIT THAT I DID NOT NECESSARILY SEE THAT COMING.
I THOUGHT THAT THE PARTY WAS GOING IN A VERY, VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
DONALD TRUMP HAD A LIZARDLY INSTINCT THAT HE COULD TAP INTO THESE RESENTMENTS AND THIS FEAR, THIS SENSE THAT THE FORGOTTEN AMERICAN WAS BEING VICTIMIZED, WAS BEING EXPLOITED.
HE TAPPED INTO THAT IN A VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL WAY.
>> YOU WROTE ABOUT IT A BIT.
YOU HAVE A SENTENCE THAT'S VERY STRIKING.
YOU WROTE THAT, ON THE STUMP, TRUMP FREELY REWRITES HISTORY, PEDDLES BIZARRE CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND MEMORY-HOLES THE DARKER PARTS OF HIS RECORD.
THUS FAR, IT'S BEEN WORKING.
IS THAT BECAUSE IT RESONATES WITH RESENTMENTS AMONG PEOPLE YOU HAVE COVERED FOR 50 YEARS IN WISCONSIN AS WELL AS AROUND THE COUNTRY?
>> WALTER, LET ME SAY SOMETHING THAT I KNOW IS SOMEWHAT UNCOMMON.
I AM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT.
I THINK THIS IS THE MOST BIZARRE QUESTION OF OUR BIZARRE TIMES.
WHY IS THIS WORKING?
IT'S ONE THING FOR POLITICIANS TO LIE TO PEOPLE AND MISLEAD PEOPLE.
WE ARE ALSO SEEING A POLITICIAN WHO LIES SO EASILY.
A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE ELECTORATE EITHER DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THEY ARE BEING LIED TO OR, FRANKLY, THIS IS MORE DISTURBING, DOESN'T CARE ABOUT IT.
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN AMERICAN CULTURE IN OUR INFORMATION ECOSYSTEM?
WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE WAY THAT WE PROCESS INFORMATION?
OR THAT WE APPROACH POLITICS THAT THIS IS HAPPENING.
I STILL FIND IT AMAZING EVERY DAY.
FOR PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY HAVE TAKEN CRAZY PILLS, YOU ARE NOT THE CRAZY ONES.
LOOK AT DONALD TRUMP AND HE IS SPOUTING THESE THINGS.
TURN THE CAMERA TO THE CROWD.
THEY ARE EATING IT UP.
THEY LIKE IT.
DONALD TRUMP UNDERSTANDS THIS.
HE UNDERSTOOD SOMETHING THAT NONE OF US SAW COMING WHEN HE SAID, I COULD SHOOT SOMEBODY IN THE MIDDLE OF 5th AVENUE AND I WOULDN'T LOSE ANY VOTES.
WHAT DID HE SEE THAT I THINK A LOT OF MAINSTREAM OBSERVERS DID NOT SEE?
THERE IS SOMETHING BROKEN IN THE AMERICAN POLITICAL CULTURE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING.
I THINK PART OF IT IS THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME, PROBABLY PEOPLE LIKE YOU THOUGHT POLITICS WAS ABOUT IDEAS, POLICIES, LEGACIES, WHEN, IN FACT, TURNS OUT POLITICS FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS IS ABOUT IDENTITY.
IT'S ALSO PERHAPS ABOUT JUST GIVING A BIG MIDDLE FINGER TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY THINK DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM OR LOOK DOWN ON THEM.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE DRIVING BOTH IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT EVEN ARNDT WORLD, THE POPULIST BACKLASH HAS BEEN A REACTION TO IMMIGRATION.
I NOTICE THAT IN THE REPUBLICAN PLATFORM, WHICH IS TONED DOWN A BIT, ONE OF THE THINGS NOT TONED DOWN IS YOU SEAL THE BORDER AND MASSIVE DEPORTATIONS.
LEAVING ASIDE CANADA, WISCONSIN IS FARTHEST YOU CAN BE FROM A BORDER STATE.
HOW DOES THAT RESONATE IN WISCONSIN AND WHY?
>> THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION, BECAUSE UP UNTIL 2016, IMMIGRATION WAS NEVER A BIG ISSUE HERE IN WISCONSIN.
IN FACT, I USED TO HAVE A RADIO TALK SHOW.
I REMEMBER ONE DAY OPENING UP THE PHONE LINES AND SAYING, I WANT TO TALK TO DAIRY FARMERS IN WISCONSIN, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IMMIGRATION?
THE REACTION IS, WE NEED IMMIGRATION.
WE NEED PEOPLE ON OUR FARMS.
WE'RE NOT A BORDER STATE.
THERE IS THIS SENSE -- IT'S BEEN FED BY DONALD TRUMP AND HIS SUPPORTERS AND THEIR ALLIES IN THE MEDIA -- THAT THIS COUNTRY IS UNDER ATTACK.
THAT IT'S UNDER INVASION.
THAT YOU HAVE BROWN PEOPLE COMING ACROSS THE BORDERS AND COMING FOR YOUR JOBS AND YOUR WOMEN, CAUSING CRIME.
IT'S A SENSE OF MENACE.
THEY CREATED IMMIGRATION FROM BEING AN ENGINE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND OPPORTUNITY TO A THREAT.
THAT IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR THEME OF THE CAMPAIGN.
IT'S ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND DONALD TRUMP RIGHT NOW.
>> ONE OF THE DISCUSSIONS WE HAVE HAD FOR A WHILE IS WHETHER THE BORDER OR A BOBORTION WOULD THE MOST SALIENT ISSUE.
ABORTION HELPING THE DEMOCRATS SOME.
YOU RAN ON A PRO-LIFE PLATFORM IN WISCONSIN.
TELL ME, HOW DOES ABORTION PLAY BOTH IN WISCONSIN AND WILL IT BE A FACTOR AROUND THE COUNTRY IN THIS ELECTION?
>> YEAH, I WAS VERY MUCH PART OF THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT BUT HAVE BEEN DISILLUSIONED BY THE WAY THAT THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT HAS HANDLED ROE VERSUS WADE.
THEY WERE THE DOG THAT CAUGHT THE CAR.
THE FACT THAT THEY WERE NOT PREPARED FOR CREATING A CULTURE OF LIFE THAT WOULD ENCOURAGE FAMILIES AND MOTHERS AND CHILDREN I THINK IS A MAJOR LAPSE ON THE PART OF THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT.
INSTEAD, THEY EMPHASIZED EXTREME AND PUNITIVE MEASURES.
I THINK THAT IN WISCONSIN, ABORTION WILL PLAY THE WAY IT PLAYS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.
IT'S ALREADY HAD A TREMENDOUS IMPACT HERE.
THIS IS A VERY EVENLY DIVIDED STATE.
A LIBERAL SUPREME COURT CANDIDATE WHO RAN ON ROE V. WADE WON BY A LANDSLIDE IN WISCONSIN.
THAT SHOULD BE A SALIENT ISSUE.
IN A STATE LIKE WISCONSIN, I DO THINK ABORTION IS GOING TO BE MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN IMMIGRATION.
AGAIN, WE ARE A VERY EVENLY DIVIDED STATE.
CAN I JUST SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE THAT I THINK HAS BEEN UNDER APPRECIATED?
I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS PLAYS IN WISCONSIN.
BUT I THINK THAT IF THE ISSUE IS SHOULD WE TOUGHEN THE BORDER AND HAVE MORE ENFORCEMENT, I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR THAT.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE NECESSARILY A MASSIVE WEDGE ISSUE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DONALD TRUMP IS PLEDGING AND THAT IS IN THE PROJECT 2025 AND IN THE REPUBLICAN PLATFORM AND HAS BEEN ENDORSED BY OTHER REPUBLICANS IS THE MASS DEPORTATION OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
THERE'S SO MUCH GOING ON, IT'S EASY TO PASS THAT OVER.
WAIT.
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FORCEFULLY DEPORTING 10 MILLION PEOPLE FROM THIS COUNTRY.
I GUESS, IF PEOPLE BEGIN TO FOCUS ON THAT, IF THEY BEGIN TO ASK, EXACTLY HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?
WHAT KIND OF ROUND-UPS ARE WE GOING TO HAVE?
WILL POLICE OFFICERS DO THAT?
WILL THERE BE DETENTION CAMPS?
WILL WE PUT PEOPLE IN BUSES, IN TRAINS?
HOW DO YOU MOVE 10 MILLION PEOPLE?
POTENTIALLY, THAT WILL BE ONE OF THE GREAT HUMANITARIAN DISASTERS OF OUR TIME.
YET, WE REALLY HAVEN'T LITIGATED THAT AND DEBATED THAT VERY MUCH.
PERHAPS IT'S JUST DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING IT BECAUSE IT'S THE SYMBOLISM.
IT'S LIKE THE WALL.
THIS HAS REAL WORLD CONSEQUENCES.
I JUST DON'T FEEL IT'S GOTTEN AS MUCH ATTENTION AS IT DESERVES.
>> WHO DO YOU THINK TRUMP SHOULD CHOOSE AS HIS RUNNING MATE?
>> I AM INTERESTED IN THIS QUESTION.
IF YOU WOKE UP DONALD TRUMP AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING AND SAID, WHO DO YOU WANT YOUR VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE TO BE, I THINK HE WOULD SAY IVANKA OR DON JUNIOR.
HE UNDERSTANDS THAT THAT PERSON IMMEDIATELY BECOMES A POWER CENTER IN THE SECOND TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
IN THEORY, HE IS A LAME DUCK PRESIDENT.
HE ALSO KNOWS THAT THAT IS THE ONE PERSON HE CANNOT FIRE.
DONALD TRUMP IS HAUNTED BY THE GHOST OF MIKE PENCE, THAT MIKE PENCE, WHO WAS LOYAL UNTIL HE WASN'T LOYAL, WHO ACTUALLY HAD ENOUGH PRINCIPLE AND A STREAK OF INDEPENDENCE THAT HE WAS WILLING TO SAY NO.
SO DONALD TRUMP IS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO WILL NEVER SAY NO TO HIM, WHO WILL NEVER THREATEN HIM, WHO WILL NEVER OVERSHADOW HIM.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO.
IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY REVEALING CHOICE.
OBVIOUSLY, GIVEN THE FACT THAT HE WOULD BE TERM LIMITED OUT, THAT PERSON BECOMES AN IMMEDIATE CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT, WHICH AGAIN, DONALD TRUMP MAY SEE AS SOMETHING OF A THREAT.
I'M EXPECTING THAT HE WILL NAME SOMEONE LOW KEY.
I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN DONALD TRUMP'S HEAD?
AS A LONGTIME CONSERVATIVE, IN JOE BIDEN REMAINS THE NOMINEE, ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM?
>> I MADE IT CLEAR I WILL WALK THROUGH FIRE AND CRAWL THROUGH GLASS TO VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD BEAT DONALD TRUMP.
YES, I'M GOING TO DO THAT.
LET ME TELL YOU WHERE I COME FROM ON THAT.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT 2024 IS ABOUT RE-ELECTING JOE BIDEN.
LET'S CONCEDE THAT HE HAS HAD A SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENCY.
RENOMINATION OR RE-ELECTION IS NOT A GOLD WATCH.
2024 IS ABOUT PREVENTING DONALD TRUMP FROM REGAINING POWER.
I WILL VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO WILL PREVENT DONALD TRUMP FROM GETTING BACK IN THE WHITE HOUSE, WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, NO MATTER HOW RELUCTANTLY.
I THINK THAT THAT IS THE KEY.
I THINK THAT'S THE WAY THAT VOTERS NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT.
IF, IN FACT, DONALD TRUMP DOES POSE THIS EXISTENTIAL THREAT, THEN IT WILL BE A BINARY CHOICE.
IT MIGHT FEEL GOOD TO INDULGE ONE'S SELF BY WRITING SOMEONE IN.
BUT LIKE A STATE IN WISCONSIN, THAT ELECTION WILL BE WON EITHER BY DONALD TRUMP OR BY JOE BIDEN OR WHOEVER THE DEMOCRATS NOMINATE.
THAT'S NOT A HARD CHOICE FOR ME.
>> THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION STARTS NEXT WEEK.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE WATCHING FOR?
>> FOR ME, THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF WATCHING THIS WILL BE WATCHING REPUBLICANS BOW THEIR KNEES OR APPLAUD FOR THE MOST EXTREME AND OUTLANDISH POSITIONS, POSITIONS THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY A REPUBLICAN PARTY.
A REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT CLAIMED IT WAS FOR LAW AND ORDER, THAT IS NOW GOING TO EMBRACE A CONVICTED FELON.
THE PARTY OF RONALD REAGAN THAT IS GOING TO BE CHEERING SPEAKERS WHO WILL TALK ABOUT ABANDONING UKRAINE.
I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL STAND UP AND SAY, OKAY, WE WILL SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP, BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO ABANDON NATO OR WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO ALONG WITH SOME OF THE EXTREME POSITIONS HERE.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN THE MOST DISILLUSIONING OVER THE LAST NINE YEARS HAS NOT JUST BEEN THE BOWING OF THE KNEE TO DONALD TRUMP, BUT IT'S BEEN THE WILLINGNESS TO CHANGE PRINCIPLES, TO CHANGE POSITIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE HELD FOR THEIR WHOLE LIVES BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY NEED TO CONTINUE TO BE WITH THE TRIBE.
WILL THERE BE ANY INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT THIS PARTY WANTS TO REACH OUT TO CENTRIST VOTERS, OR WILL THIS JUST BE A DOUBLING DOWN?
UNFORTUNATELY, THIS CONVENTION TAKES PLACE IN THE SHADOW OF THE TURMOIL THAT'S GOING ON IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
THIS IS, AGAIN, GOING TO BE A VERY OPTIMISTIC, VERY AGGRESSIVE, VERY TRIUMPHALISTIC REPUBLICAN PARTY.
THIS IS A PARTY THAT IS CONFIDENT THEY WILL BE IN POWER NEXT YEAR.
IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THEY RESPOND.
DO THEY FIGURE THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A POSITION TO WIN THIS ELECTION, THEY SHOULD MODERATE AND REACH OUT TO SWING VOTERS IN PLACES LIKE WISCONSIN?
OR WILL THEY SEE THIS AS A RATIFICATION OF EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING SINCE JANUARY 6th AND DOUBLE DOWN?
I'M GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTED TO SEE HOW MUCH AND HOW WILLING THEY ARE TO LITIGATE THE 2020 ELECTION, HOW THEY WILL REACT TO ALL OF THAT, AND HOW MUCH THEY WILL TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW THEY WILL BALANCE THAT.
>> CHARLIE SYKES, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>>> A REMINDER OF THE HIGH STAKES AT NEXT WEEK'S REPUBLICAN CONVENTION.
>>> FINALLY FOR US, TENSION WILL BE PALPABLE ON WIMBLEDON'S CENTER COURT.
THAT'S WHEN JASMINE PAOLINI AND BARBORA KREJCIKOVA WILL BATTLE IT.
THEY WILL STAND ON THE SHOULDERS OF BILLIE JEAN KING.
SHE FOUGHT FOR EQUAL RIGHTS FOR WOMEN.
LAST SUMMER, KING SPOKE WITH CHRISTIAN ABOUT THE AFTERMATH OF HER WIN AT WIMBLEDON AND THE EMOTIONAL CHALLENGES ATHLETES FACE ON AND OFF THE COURT.
>> I JUST WON WIMBLEDON.
I ANNOUNCED MY RETIREMENT.
EVERYONE AROUND ME -- I WAS LISTENING TOO MUCH TO OTHERS AND NOT MY OWN HEART AND SOUL.
THAT IS, THEY SAID YOU SHOULD GO OUT ON TOP.
ATHLETES HEAR THIS.
GO OUT ON TOP.
THAT'S THE WAY TO GO.
I COULD HAVE WON, ACTUALLY, SOME MORE SINGLES AS WELL.
I WAS PRACTICING WITH MARTINA AND CHRISSY.
WHY DID YOU RETIRE?
YOU ARE BEATING US IN PRACTICE.
YOU ARE RIDICULOUS.
I SHOULD HAVE PLAYED ONE OR TWO MORE YEARS OF SINGLES.
I DID COME BACK AND PLAY DOUBLES AND SINGLES AS WELL.
>> GOT MORE TITLES WHEN YOU CAME BACK.
>> NOT REALLY IN SINGLES.
>> IN DOUBLES.
>> I CAME BACK IN '77 AND '78.
IN' 76 I COULD HAVE WON MORE.
>> HOW DIFFICULT IS IT FOR WOMEN ON THE TOUR?
YOU HAD ISSUES, EVERYTHING.
EVEN EATING DISORDERS AND THE WHOLE THING.
YOU HAD A LOT OF PRESSURE ON YOU AS WELL.
TODAY WE ARE HEARING AND SEEING AND LISTENING TO MORE AND MORE FEMALE PLAYERS -- MEN DON'T -- >> WOMEN ARE ALWAYS ASKED A LOT MORE PERSONAL QUESTIONS THAN THE MEN, WHICH GETS IRRITATING.
85% OF THE MEN ARE IN COMMUNICATIONS AND MEDIA, THEY TEND TO HOLD BACK FOR THE GUYS.
THEY FEEL IT'S ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL AS A MAN.
>> THE MALE JOURNALISTS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THEY DON'T MEAN TO.
>> IT'S A NATURAL BIAS?
>> RIGHT.
THE WAY WE ARE SOCIALIZED.
WE ARE ALWAYS ASKED ABOUT OUR SEXUALITY, ALL OUR PERSONAL STUFF.
THE MEN NEVER WERE.
I WOULD ALSO LIKE MEN, IF THEY ARE GAY TO COME OUT.
I WISH THEY WOULD HAVE THE COURAGE TO DO THAT.
DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS FOR GUYS IF YOU COME OUT LIKE THAT?
THINK OF THE LOCKER ROOM.
IT'S RELENTLESS.
>> MEN ARE COMING OUT.
>> DO YOU THINK -- >> WHAT ABOUT TENNIS?
ARE .
>> ONE OR TWO MUST BE.
I HAVE NO IDEA.
>> DO YOU THINK -- DO YOU KNOW THAT MALE TENNIS PLAYERS HAVE THE KIND OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM NAOMI OSAKA AND RECENTLY FROM -- >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> NOW IT'S OKAY TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.
THAT'S WONDERFUL.
I THINK THAT'S FANTASTIC.
DURING THE TOUR, I WAS TOLD BY SPONSORS IF I SAID ANYTHING -- I WAS GOING THROUGH -- I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHO I WAS.
IF YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR CONFUSION OR WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR HEART AND SOUL THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE A TOUR.
WHEN I'M GIVEN THAT TYPE OF INFORMATION, DO YOU THINK I'M GOING TO SAY ANYTHING?
OF COURSE I'M NOT.
WE HAVE THE TOUR.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME.
THIS IS ABOUT EVERYBODY.
>> EMMA, WHO SHOT TO FAME, YOU AWARDED HER HER TROPHY AT THE U.S. OPEN.
>> SUCH AN HONOR.
>> SHE WAS ONLY 18.
SHE STRUGGLED SO MUCH SINCE TOI.
SHE DESCRIBED THE TOUR AND COMPLETELY BRUTAL.
"I REALIZED IN THE PAST TWO YEARS, THE TOUR AND EVERYTHING THAT COMES WITH IT IS NOT VERY NICE, TRUSTING OR SAFE SPACE.
YOU HAVE TO BE ON GOUARD.
THERE ARE A LOT OF SHARKS OUT THERE.
IT'S REALLY HARD.
IT'S HARDER WHEN YOU MAKE MISTAKES IN FRONT OF EVERYONE AND EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT IT."
DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE BRUTAL TOUR?
>> BEING A PRO ATHLETE IS HARD.
THE WTA HAS BEEN FANTASTIC WITH MENTAL HEALTH.
PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WHY AREN'T YOU DOING ANYTHING?
WE HAVE TO KEEP IT PRIVATE.
THIS IS ABOUT PRIVATE ISSUES WITH EACH PLAYER.
I USED TO TALK TO THE HEAD OF HEALTH SERVICES, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, HOW DO WE MAKE IT BETTER, HOW DO WE HELP?
BELIEVE ME, SINCE THE '80s AND '90s, THEY HAVE BEEN ON THIS.
WE HAVE PSYCHOLOGISTS.
WHATEVER YOU NEED, THEY ARE THERE.
YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT PRIVATE.
>> WHY?
>> BECAUSE WHATEVER THE PERSON WANTS.
>> YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT PRIVATE.
>> THE WTA DOES.
I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT IT.
I ENCOURAGE IT.
I WENT TO AN EATING DISORDER PLACE.
I HAVE A PSYCHOLOGIST.
I TOTALLY BELIEVE IN ALL OF THIS.
I WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW, WTA HAS BEEN AWARE OF IT.
>> WHY DOES SOMEBODY LIKE EMMA SAY IT'S BRUTAL OR NAOMI OSAKA?
A LOT GOES TO THE HARANGUING IN THE PRESS ROOM AFTERWARDS.
>> IS THAT WHAT THEY SAY?
>> I HAVE HEARD THAT.
>> WHAT DO THEY EXPECT?
OKAY.
IS IT GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.
YOU ARE CHOSEN TO BE A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE.
WITH THAT GOES CERTAIN THINGS YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT.
IT'S COMPETITIVE.
I DON'T THINK A LOT OF ATHLETES -- WE ARE USED TO STIFF UPPER LIP, BE TOUGH.
NO.
ON THE COURT MAYBE.
OFF THE COURT, YOU NEED HELP.
ASK FOR WHAT YOU WANT AND NEED.
GIRLS ARE SOCIALIZED NOT TO DO THAT.
HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT?
GIRLS HAVE A HARD TIME TO ASK FOR WHAT THEY WANT AND WHAT THEY NEED.
THEY NEED TO STEP UP AND ASK FOR IT.
>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.COM/AMANPOUR.
JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.