RNC in the Wake of Trump Assassination Attempt: What Happens Next?

>>> SO THE RNC IS BEING CLOSELY WATCHED FOR ANSWERS ABOUT HOW THE GOP WILL FINE-TUNE ITS STRATEGY FOR THE OVAL OFFICE.

HOW WILL TRUMP FURTHER SHIFT THE IDEOLOGICAL FOUNDATIONS OF THE PARTY?

HOW SERIOUSLY SHOULD PROJECT 2025 BE TAKEN?

AND WHAT CAN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DO DIFFERENTLY?

TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS AND MORE HARRY ASKED STAN HERNDON, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" POLITICS REPORTER AND THE HOST OF THE RUN-UP PODCAST.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

STAN HERNDON, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM AGAIN.

HERE WE ARE IN MILWAUKEE.

I THINK THE BIG STORY FOR MOST PEOPLE IS HOW DOES DONALD TRUMP, HOW DOES THE REPUBLICAN PARTY REACT TO THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON THE FORMER PRESIDENT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT CERTAINLY LOOMS OVER THIS CONVENTION.

WE HAVE SEEN REPUBLICANS AND TRUMP TRY TO SAY THEY'LL SEEK TO STRIKE A UNIFYING TONE.

THEY'LL USE THIS MOMENT TO PIVOT THEIR MESSAGE TO BRING IT TO MORE PEOPLE AND IT REFLECTS ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND EVEN BEFORE THE EVENTS ON SATURDAY.

THEY WERE READING THE POLLING AND THEY WERE READING THE ANGST IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND FEELING LIKE THIS IS THEIR ELECTION TO LOSE, AND THAT IS ON ONE SIDE, AND WE SHOULD ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT DONALD TRUMP HAVE BEEN A PART OF RAISING THE POLITICAL TEMPERATURE AND DIVISION THROUGHOUT THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS AND THAT IS WHO TRUMP IS.

EVEN WHEN WE THINK ABOUT J.D.

VANCE USING THE MOMENT ON SUNDAY TO TARGET DEMOCRATS AND PLACE THE BLAME ON JOE BIDEN WHEN WE KNOW THAT ISN'T A CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP.

I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT THEIR POLITICAL AMBITION WILL BE TO PIVOT, IMAGINE TRYING TO STAKE A CHORD OF UNITY AND THAT'S CLEAR LEET INTENTION, AND I THINK WE'VE HAD EVIDENCE OVER THE LAST SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS TO KNOW THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS NOT MADE HIS POLITICAL CALLING CARD ONE OF BRINGING PEOPLE IN TOGETHER.

THIS WILL BE ASKING A LEOPARD TO CHANGE ITS SPOTS HERE, AND I THINK WE SHOULD BE PRETTY SKEPTICAL OF THAT.

>> ARE THERE CONCERNS ABOUT SECURITY?

THERE WERE CONVERSATIONS AS SOON AS THE SHOOTING HAPPENED.

WAS THE SECRET SERVICE PREPARED?

AND THE SECRET SERVICE CAME OUT AND SAID IN THEIR OWN PRESS CONFERENCE AND PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD SAID THAT HE'D HAD A CONVERSATION WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND MADE A STATEMENT ABOUT POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

>> IS THERE INCREASED ANXIETY ABOUT NOT JUST THE SAFETY OF THE PRESIDENT, BUT ANYBODY WHO IS THERE.

>> I CAN SAY THAT EVEN BEING HERE FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF DAYS, THE TOWN OF MILWAUKEE IS LOCKED DOWN.

THERE ARE SO MANY SECURITY CHECKPOINTS AND SUCH A PERIMETER AROUND THEM.

I WENT THROUGH FAVOR SIX CHECKS TO GET THERE WHEN I WAS GETTING THERE EARLIER TODAY.

I'M PRETTY SURE THE SECURITY WAS BEEFED UP AND IT WAS PROBABLY MORE SO SINCE THE, VENTS ON SATURDAY, BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT WE SHOULDN'T SEE POLITICAL VIOLENCE AND THE INCIDENT ON SATURDAY AS AN ISOLATED ONE.

WHEN WE LOOK BACK OVER THE LAST PRETTY CORE TO A LOT OF WHAT'S HAPPENED IN OUR COUNTRY.

WE THINK ABOUT THE TREE OF LIFE SHOOTING, EL PASO SHOOTING, THE ATTACK ON PAUL PELOSI, THE ATTACK ON STEVE SCALISE.

THESE HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT INCIDENTS OVER THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS AND IT REFLECTS THE GROWING TENOR OF DIVISION AND DISCORD THAT IS IN OUR POLITICS.

AND SO I THINK SATURDAY WAS CERTAINLY A BRACING MOMENT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WATCHED, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK IT'S AN AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT HAS COME TO EXPECT A POLITICAL SYSTEM.

I LEFT OUT JANUARY AND IT'S BEEN A STEADY DRUMBEAT OF INCREASE AND OF POLITICAL CONVENTION, AND I THINK THAT WE'LL SEE THAT GOING FORWARD FOR BOTH CANDIDATES.

>> I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING HOW POLITICIANS IS FRAMING THE EVENTS WOULD HAPPEN.

JOE BIDEN SENT THE ORDERS AND THEN YOU HAVE MATT GAETZ, FLORIDA.

THEY TRIED TO IMPEACH HIM.

THEY'RE TRYING TO IMPRISON HIM.

NOW THEY HAVE TRIED TO ASSASSINATE HIM.

HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT RHETORIC WHERE THERE'S CLEARLY SOME POLITICAL OPPORTUNITIES GOING ON WITH THE CAMPAIGN SAYING WE WANT TO TRY A UNIFYING MESSAGE.

>> PARTICULARLY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE ATTACK DOGS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THE MATT GAETZ, THE FREEDOM CAUCUS WING AND EVEN J.D.

VANCE.

THEY'VE BEEN THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN MOST EXPLICITLY TRYING TO LINK THIS TO DEMOCRATS AND FRANKLY, CREATING AN ARGUMENT THAT SAYS DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN VIOLENTLY TARGETING TRUMP FOR YEARS.

THIS PLAYS WITHIN A NARRATIVE THAT THEY'VE BEEN CREATING FOR A LONG TIME AND ONE THAT STARTED AS PRESIDENT BEING OBSTRUCTED AS DEMOCRATS AND TRYING TO INVALIDATE HIS PRESIDENCY AND CERTAINLY THE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS HAVE TAKEN PLACE SINCE HE'S LEFT OFFICE AND NOW THIS RECENT KIND OF ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT PLAYS WITHIN A SCRIPT THAT THE RIGHT WING IS TRYING TO SAY WHICH IS THAT THE LEFT AND JOE BIDEN ARE TRYING TO DO WHATEVER THEY CAN TO STOP DONALD TRUMP FROM COMING BACK INTO OFFICE.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOT CONFLATE THOSE THINGS AND THE THINGS WE KNOW ABOUT THE SHOOTER ON SATURDAY DO NOT LINK HIM DIRECTLY TO DEMOCRATS.

THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO SAY THAT THERE IS ANY KIND OF CONNECTION WITH THE PARTIES HERE AND FRANKLY, IT FITS THE PROFILE OF MIXED IDEOLOGY SCHOOL SHOOTER TYPE THAT WE'VE SEEN OFTEN IN THESE TYPE OF INCIDENTS, AND SO REPUBLICANS ARE DOING A SLIGHT OF HAND TO PLAY INTO THE POLITICAL PURPOSES AND THE SERIES OF WHAT HAPPENS DOES CAUSE TO ASK WHAT THE MESSAGE IS GOING FORWARD.

THE CLEAR MESSAGE FROM DEMOCRATS UP UNTIL THIS POINT WAS DONALD TRUMP WAS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY AND THAT CREATED AN EMERGENCY THAT FORCED PEOPLE TO ACT, AND YOU EVEN HEAR SOME DEMOCRATS NOW SAYING IS THAT TENOR A LITTLE -- A LITTLE TOO INTENSE FOR THIS MOMENT?

ARE WE CONTRIBUTING TO THE KIND OF POLARIZATION OF THIS MOMENT WITH THAT ARGUMENT?

THAT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

DO DEMOCRATS BACK OFF OF WHAT'S BEEN THE MESSAGE TO RALLY THEIR BASE?

>> WE JUST HAD JUDGE AILEEN CANNON OUTRIGHT DISMISS THE DOCUMENTS CASE.

IT WILL BE APPEALED, BUT I WONDER IF THAT IMPACTS THE OVERALL STANDING AND STRATEGY WHEN IT COMES TO HOW THE RNC FRAMES THE FORMER PRESIDENT GOING FORWARD?

>> I THINK IT WILL, PARTIALLY BECAUSE THEY'VE TRIED TO FRAME THESE CASES AS A WEAPONIZATION AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT FROM DONALD TRUMP.

IT WILL PLAY INTO THE SENSE OF THE PERSECUTION AND A REPUBLICAN VICTIMHOOD THAT'S BEEN CORE TO THAT MESSAGE.

I DON'T WANT TO CONFLATE THOSE TWO THINGS BECAUSE I DO THINK THE SHOOTING IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT IT IS THE SAME TYPE OF MESSAGE THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO PITCH.

THIS IS A CANDIDATE THAT HAS BEEN UNDER ATTACK AND I WALKED PAST THE BIG BILLBOARD IN THE PFIZER FORUM WHERE THEY'RE HOLD THIS WHICH IS ONE OF TRUMP'S QUOTES FROM HIS SPEECHES IS THEY'RE NOT COMING AFTER ME.

THEY'RE COMING AFTER YOU.

I'M JUST IN THE WAY.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE VERY LOCATION.

YOU'RE IN MILWAUKEE THAT HAS BEEN IN SOME WAYS A DEMOCRATIC STRONGHOLD, BUT YOU KNOW WISCONSIN IS A BATTLEGROUND STATE THAT'S SWUNG BEFORE?

>> WHAT'S THE ONE GOING TO START ABOUT THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION.

WHY IS THIS CONVENTION.

>> IT WAS UP ENDED BY COVID, PARTIALLY BECAUSE MILWAUKEE REMAINS A WEATHER OF THE PARTY, AND WISCONSIN IS A CLEARLY PURPLE STATE, BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN REFLECTED IN THEIR STATE POLITICS.

THEY ALOUD REPUBLICANS TO CONTROL POWER ON THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOR YEARS HERE.

I THINK THE SCOTT WALKER ERA AND THAT TIME AND WHAT DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IS SLOWLY CRAWL BACK TO THE POINT AND THE ONUS IS NOW ON REPUBLICANS TO DO BETTER.

HERE'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, IS WISCONSIN IS NOT A TRUMPY REPUBLICAN STATE AS WELL AS SUBURBS WHO DRIFTED AWAY FROM HIM.

YOU SAW NIKKI HALEY PUT UP GOOD NUMBERS IN WISCONSIN EVEN THOUGH SHE DROPPED OUT.

THEY'RE BEEN PULLED TOWARD THE TRUMP BASE AND A MORE, I WOULD SAY, A TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE TYPE IN THIS STATE AND IT'S HURT HIM.

IT'S ACTUALLY HURT REPUBLICANS WHERE.

WHERE DEMOCRATS HAVE STRUGGLE SIDE MOTIVATING IN PLACES LIKE MILWAUKEE MADISON AND THEY'VE HAD A FULL DROPOFF, WHICH IS A LOT OF REPUBLICANS TO SEIZE ON THAT.

>> IT'S IMPORTANT WHY THE WEN WENS ARE DOING HERE?

THEY'RE TRYING TO DO TWO THINGS.

THEY'RE TRYING TO LIMIT OKESHAW OUTSIDE OF MILWAUKEE AND THE BLACK, AND THAT IS A RECIPE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE UP WHAT IS SURE TO BE A MONKEY.

>> THERE'S STUFF STUFF THAT COMES OFF CAMERA AND SHALLY THE PARTY -- WHAT DO THEY STAND FOR?

I WONDER WHAT HAS THIS PARTY KNOW ABOUT ABLE TO DO?

HAVE THERE BEEN SHIFTS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND IS THERE AN EMPHASIS ON EXECUTIVE POWER AND ET CETERA?

>> THERE IS AN IMPORTANT POINT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT TRUMP HAS DONE IS YOU TAKE OVER THE LEVERS OF THE PARTY AND THE POLICY WRITING PROCESS AND THE PLATFORM PROCESS THAT WE THINK THAT HAPPENS AT THESE TYPE OF CONVENTIONS HAS BEEN TOTALLY UP ENDED BY TRUMP ALREADY.

LAST WEEK THERE WAS A LOT OF REPORTING ABOUT HOW THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN FRANKLY STEAM ROLLED A LOT OF THE TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE A PART OF THAT PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THINGS LIKE ABORTION WERE NOT MENTIONED IN THE PARTY PLATFORM BECAUSE HE WANTS TO HAVE A MUSHY POSITION ON THERE.

INSTEAD YOU HAD A SERIES OF TRUMP PRONOUNCEMENTS THAT WERE LARGELY PRETTY VAGUE THAT NOW MAKE UP THIS PARTY PLATFORM.

BRING BACK ENERGY INDEPENDENCE AND JUST KIND OF THE THINGS YOU HEAR DONALD TRUMP SAY ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, AND I THINK THIS IS PARTIALLY WHY THINGS LIKE PROJECT 2025 AND THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION'S ATTEMPTS TO MAKE UP A POLICY PLATFORM HAVE REALLY EXPLODED BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN FAIRLY VAGUE ON WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO ON THAT FRONT, AND THEY INTENTIONALLY HAVE DONE THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PUSHED INTO UNPOPULAR DECISIONS.

I THINK THIS WILL BE A BIG THING TO WATCH GOING FORWARD.

>> I WONDER, IS THERE A SPECIFIC REASON THAT YOU'VE GOT PROJECT 2025 THAT THE POLICY THEY CAN TAKE AND RUN WITH AND THEN THE FUTURE POSITION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHICH AS YOU POINT OUT, IS VERY VAGUE.

>> YEAH.

>> HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THOSE?

BECAUSE PRESIDENT HAS TRIED REPEATEDLY TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM PROJECT 2025.

>> THEY HAVE AND THE TRUTH THAT WE KNOW IS SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE HERE, BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS HAVE AN IMPORTANT POINT.

DONALD TRUMP CANNOT JUST DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM PROJECT 2025 BECAUSE THE WRITERS AND THE POLICIES COME FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, ARE CLOSE TO DONALD TRUMP AND THEY'RE VERY LIKELY TO BE INVOLVED IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IF HE WAS TO COME BACK.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS WHY TRUMP WANTS TO REMAIN VAGUE ON THESE POLICY PLATFORMS IS BECAUSE A LOT OF THINGS PROPOSED IN PROJECT 2025 ARE MASSIVELY UNPOPULAR.

THINK ABOUT ELIMINATING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND ELIMINATING GENDER IN POLICY, REGULATION OR LAW.

SOME OF THE GOALS THEY HAVE SPECIFIC TO ABORTION.

SOME OF THE GOALS THEY HAVE SPECIFIC TO LGBT RIGHTS ARE UNPOPULAR AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS PROJECT 2025 IS EXPLICIT ABOUT THE UNITARY, EXECUTIVE THEORY THAT'S AT THE HEART OF A LOT OF THIS TRUMP POLICY RHETORIC AND WHAT THAT IS IS A BELIEF THAT THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THE PRESIDENT HAS ULTIMATE POWER OVER A LOT OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THAT MORE IMPORTANTLY, OVER THE REGULATORY AND THE CIVIL SERVICE ECOSYSTEM.

SO WHEN REPUBLICANS TALK ABOUT DRAIN THE SWAMP, THIS TIME AROUND IN '24 THEY HAVE A PLAN TO DO SO.

THEY HAVE A PLAN TO UP END KIND OF THE NORMAL DRUTHERS OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND TO INSTALL LOYALISTS IN THOSE POSITIONS, AND SO I THINK THE REALITY OF THOSE PLANS IS WHY WE SEE DONALD TRUMP DISTANCING HIMSELF FROM SOMETHING LIKE 2025.

I THINK YOU ALSO HAVE THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN FOCUSING ON IT BECAUSE IT ADDS MEAT TO THE BONES OF THE REGULAR OLD, LESSER OF TWO EVILS ARGUMENT WHERE HE'S USED TO HEARING DEMOCRATS.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS.

RIGHT NOW IN THE PAST CUP OF WEEKS EVER SINCE THE DEBATE AND WHAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE STRUGGLED TO OVERCOME IS JOE BIDEN'S AGE.

WITH THE LEADERSHIP, WHERE IS THAT PROCESS AT AND THE POSSIBILITY OF HIM NOT BEING AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET?

BECAUSE DAY IN AND DAY OUT, JOE BIDEN SAYS IT WOULD TAKE THE LORD ALMIGHTY TO STOP HIM.

>> FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF-ISH WE'VE BEEN HEARING VOTERS CONSISTENTLY AND IT WOULD BE THE THING THAT WOULD COME UP.

WHEN WE TALKED TO MOST PEOPLE ABOUT HOW THEY FELT ABOUT HIM AS PRESIDENT, AND THEY THINK THE FACT OF FOUR MORE YEARS SOUNDS RIDICULOUS AND THE DOTHERING OLD MAN HAD SAT WITH THE ELECTRIC LONG BEFORE THE DEBATE.

WHEN I TOOK THIS CHOS CLOSE TO THE BEADEN CAMP CAM.

FOR THE LAST YEAR, I WAS FRANK LEIGH SHOCKED ABOUT THE WAY THAT THEY WERE DISMISSING THAT JOE BIDEN'S AGE WAS A BIG POLITICAL LIABILITY WHEN WE LOOKED AHEAD TO NOVEMBER.

WHAT THE DEBATE DID WAS NULLIFY THEIR ABILITY TO STICK THEIR HEAD IN THE STAND BECAUSE FRANKLY, THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE DOING, AND IT WAS SUCH -- IT WAS SUCH, FRANKLY, A SDAFT FOR BIDEN THAT IT SWUNG FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER FROM I CAN ACKNOWLEDGE THIS TO WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

BUT THE YEAR OF TIME BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS GAVE THEM VERY FEW OPTIONS ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH THAT, AND SO THEY WANTED TO HAVE A MORE ROBUST CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS, AND THAT TIME WAS LAST YEAR IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THAT PRIMARY.

AT THIS POINT THEY'VE BECOME KIND OF HANDSTRUNG AND I THINK YOU SEE THE REALIZATION HERE AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF THE MOVEMENT TO MAYBE REPLACE JOE BIDEN IS THAT THAT IS MUCH MORE ACCEPTABLE AMONG THE BROADER DEMOCRATIC ELECTORATE THAN IT IS AMONG THE INNER RUNGS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BUT WHEN I TALK ABOUT DEMOCRATS AND THE PROFESSIONAL DEMOCRATS AND THE IDEA -- IT WOULD TAKE ANOTHER MOMENT OF THE DEBATE TO HAVE THAT COME CLOSE TO FRUITION.

THAT DECISION WILL COME FROM JOE BIDEN AND THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A HARD HILL TO CLIMB, AND SO YOU STILL SEE SOME EVIDENCE AND YOU STILL SEE SOME REPORTING.

PEOPLE LIKE NANCY PELOSI ARE CALLING AROUND AND SEEING IF THAT TEMPERATURE IS STILL THERE, BUT I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU BECAUSE AT THIS POINT WE'LL BE IN A SITUATION WHERE 70, 75% OF THE PUBLIC MIGHT THINK HE'S NOT FIT TO SERVE A SECOND TERM.

IF YOU'RE SOMEONE RUNNING FOR SENATE IN A CLOSE RACE AND SHERROD BROWN AND JOHN TESTER, IF YOU'RE A HOUSE MEMBER TRYING TO HOLD ON TO YOUR SEAT HOW DO YOU NOT SAY -- HOW DO YOU -- HOW DO YOU ALIGN YOURSELF WITH THE PRESIDENT THAT MOST AMERICANS DO NOT THINK IS FIT FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS?

THAT WILL BECOME THE REAL TENSION HERE IS HOW DO YOU HAVE A SINGULAR MESSAGE OF UNITY BEHIND BIDEN IF THAT MESSAGE IS COMPLETELY OUT OF STEP WHERE MOST PEOPLE ARE.

I THINK THAT WILL BE THE REAL TALE FOR ME, WHICH SOMEONE STARTS A FAVOR BY THEM AND THEN THE FRONT LINE DEMOCRATS WALK BACK WHAT THEY SAY AND YOU SAY I'M WRITING AND IT BECOMES A PARTY AND AN OPEN REVOLT ACROSS THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

?

BOTH OF THOSE REMAIN ON THE TABLE.

>> NEW YORK TIMES POLITICAL REPORTER AND HOST OF THE RUN-UP, STAN HERNDON.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

ALWAYS APPRECIATE IT.