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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
♪ AND I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN ♪ ♪ WHERE AT LEAST I KNOW I'M FREE ♪ >> THE RNC ENDS WITH WRESTLERS AND RAZZ MA TAZ, BUT DID TRUMP STRIKE THE UNIFYING TONE HE PROMISED.
I ASKED REPUBLICAN POLLSTER, SARAH LONGWELL.
>>> THEN AS PRESIDENT BIDEN RECOVERS FROM COVID, WILL HE BOW OUT OF THE RACE OR DOUBLE DOWN?
I SPEAK TO FORMER DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN TIM RYAN.
>>> AND A RUSSIAN COURT FINDS AMERICAN JOURNALIST EVAN GERSHKOVICH GUILTY ON TRUMPED UP CHARGES OF ESPIONAGE.
WE HAVE THE LATEST.
>>> ALSO AHEAD, THE WOLVES OF K STREET, HARI SREENIVASAN TALKS TO REPORTER BRODY MULLINS ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK WHICH DETAILS HOW BIG MONEY TOOK OVER BIG GOVERNMENT.
>>> PLUS -- >> DONALD TRUMP HAS HIJACKED POLITICAL PARTY.
I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN.
>> LOOKING BACK TO WHERE IT ALL BEGAN.
CHRISTIANE'S CONVERSATION WITH COMEDIAN TREVOR NOAH ON THE SIDELINES OF THE 2016 RNC.
♪ "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, PROGRAM ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER, SETON J. MEDIC MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRINGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA O'HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.
WELL, THAT'S ALL, FOLKS.
THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION REACHED ITS CONCLUSION LATE THURSDAY NIGHT, VERY LATE THURSDAY NIGHT CAPPING OFF PROCEEDINGS WITH A SHIRT RIPPING WRESTLER AND A WHOPPING 90-MINUTE SPEECH FROM THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, DONALD TRUMP.
THOUGH THE FORMER PRESIDENT PROMISED TO SPEAK ON THE THEME OF UNITY AFTER HIS ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, THE TONE QUICKLY SHIFTED BACK TO HIS FAMILIAR TROPES, FALSEHOODS AND HEAD-SCRATCHING REFERENCES.
>> THE DEMOCRAT PARTY SHOULD IMMEDIATELY STOP WEAPONIZING THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.
THE FAKE DOCUMENTS CASE, DROP THESE PARTISAN WITCH HUNTS, CRAZY NANCY PELOSI.
THEY'RE DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY, CHEATING ON ELECTIONS.
WE'RE NEVER GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN.
THEY USED COVID TO CHEAT.
THE LATE, GREAT HANNIBAL LECTER.
H HE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU FOR DINNER.
>> THAT'S IN REFERENCE TO THE FILM "SILENCE OF THE LAMBS" FROM THE 1990s.
PERHAPS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STUCK OUT THE MOST, HOWEVER, IS WHAT IS MISSING.
VERY FEW DIRECT ATTACKS ON PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN HIMSELF.
MAYBE IT'S PART OF TRUMP'S PROMISE OF UNITY OR PERHAPS IT'S BECAUSE THE CURRENT PRESIDENT COULD DROP OUT OF THE RACE AS PRESSURE MOUNTS WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY.
TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN, LET'S BRING IN SARAH LONGWELL, SHE'S A LONG-TIME REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST TURNED TRUMP CRITIC WHO STILL REGULARLY SPEAKS TO AVERAGE GOP VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND THEIR STATE OF MIND.
SARAH, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU, ESPECIALLY ON A DAY LIKE THIS.
SO WALK US THROUGH -- I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A TWO-PRONG QUESTION.
ONE IS YOUR REACTION TO WHAT WE SAW FROM TRUMP'S SPEECH YESTERDAY FOLLOWING WHAT APPEARED TO BE A VERY COHESIVE, UNITED, AND DISCIPLINED CONVENTION, AND THEN WHAT AN AVERAGE GOP VOTER SAW IN THAT SPEECH.
>> SURE.
I MEAN, I'LL GIVE -- YEAH, MY TAKE FIRST, WHICH IS THAT IT WAS UTTERLY BIZARRE IN A TOTALLY PREDICTABLE WAY.
I MEAN, WE HAVE NOW BEEN HEARING FROM REPUBLICANS FOR ALMOST A DECADE THAT AT DIFFERENT INTERVALS TRUMP IS GOING TO STRIKE A NEW TONE, AND NOW OF COURSE IN THE WAKE OF AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, THERE'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY TO STRIKE A NEW TONE OF UNITY, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT IS TRUMP'S RHETORIC, HIS VIOLENT RHETORIC, HIS TELLING PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T FIGHT HARD THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A COUNTRY ANYMORE JUST BEFORE ATTACK THE CAPITOL AND OVERTURN ELECTION RESULTS.
THE WAY HE MOCKED NANCY PELOSI'S HUSBAND WHEN HE WAS ATTACKED IN HIS OWN HOME BY A VIOLENT PERSON WITH A HAMMER.
YOU KNOW, THAT TRUMP WAS STILL IN THAT SPEECH, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A SORT OF A CHUNK AT THE BEGINNING THAT WAS PREWRITTEN THAT WAS MEANT TO BE UNIFYING IN THE WAKE OF THAT ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, HE COULDN'T HELP BUT REVERT TO HIS OLD WAY OF BEING DIVISIVE.
BUT WHAT WAS ALSO INTERESTING TO ME WAS HOW LOW ENERGY HE WAS THIS DELIVERING IT.
SOMEHOW HE MANAGED TO GO 90 MINUTES, AND YET, IT WAS MEANDERING.
IT WAS STRANGE, AND IT SOUNDED LIKE HE LOST THE ROOM.
I THINK HE HAD THE ROOM IN THE BEGINNING WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, BUT BY THE END FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE, REPORTS ARE PEOPLE WERE KIND OF LOOKING AT THEIR PHONES.
THEY WERE KIND OF BORED.
AND LOOK, THE AVERAGE GOP VOTER, LOOK, THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES OF AVERAGE GOP VOTERS NOW.
THERE'S A BIG CHUNK OF THE PARTY THAT'S ALL IN ON TRUMP, AND SO WHEN HE GIVES ONE OF THOSE SORT OF TIGHT RALLY CAMPAIGN TYPE SPEECHES.
THEY'RE THERE FOR IT.
THEY'RE SPECIAL THERE FOR MORE OF THE SOCIAL ISSUES, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE SAYS THINGS LIKE WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET MEN PLAY IN WOMEN'S SPORTS, THAT KIND OF THING ALWAYS PLAYS WELL WITH THE BASE.
BUT THEN THERE'S ANOTHER C CATEGORY OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS THAT IS NOT THAT HAPPY ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BEING HIJACKED BY MAGA, AND THIS WAS A MAGA RNC CONVENTION FROM START TO FINISH.
THIS WAS ABOUT TRUMP, IT WASN'T ABOUT POLICIES OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND SO I THINK THAT THERE IS A CHUNK OF VOTERS WHO -- LOOK, THEY'RE NOT DEMOCRATS AND THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN, BUT THEY'RE ALSO NOT WILD ABOUT VOTING FOR DONALD TRUMP AGAIN AND THE CHAOS THAT HE BRINGS.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE DOUBLE HATERS IN THIS ELECTION, AND I THINK THAT IF JOE BIDEN COULD FIND IT IN HIMSELF TO STEP DOWN, THAT THAT PERSON WHO GAVE THE SPEECH LAST NIGHT IS EASILY BEATABLE BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT JOE BIDEN.
>> SO THAT COULD BE VIEWED TWO WAYS BECAUSE SARAH, WE'RE JUST GETTING NOTICE FROM JOE BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN SAYING THAT THE PRESIDENT IS LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING BACK ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL NEXT WEEK TO, QUOTE, CONTINUE EXPOSING THE THREAT OF DONALD TRUMP'S PROJECT 2025 AGENDA WHILE MAKING THE CASE FOR MY OWN RECORD AND THE VISION THAT I HAVE FOR AMERICA, ONE WHERE WE SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY, PROTECT OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS, AND CREATE OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE.
IT APPEARS THAT THE PRESIDENT DESPITE THE FACT THAT NOW I THINK WE'RE UP TO 30 ELECTED DEMOCRATIC OFFICIALS THAT ARE PUBLICLY SPEAKING OUT SAYING THAT JOE BIDEN SHOULD STEP DOWN, IT APPEARS THAT HE HAS DUG IN HIS HEELS.
PERHAPS HE SAW SOMETHING, AGAIN, A REMINDER OF DONALD TRUMP NOT BEING NECESSARILY A STRONG CANDIDATE IN SAYING I CAN BEAT THAT GUY.
BUT GIVEN WHAT'S PLAYING OUT WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY RIGHT NOW AND THE LONGER THIS GOES ON, SARAH, I THINK YOU'D AGREE WITH ME THAT THIS ONLY WEAKENS JOE BIDEN'S CANDIDACY IF HE DOES ULTIMATELY REMAIN THE CANDIDATE.
HOW DO YOU SEE THIS PLAYING OUT?
I WOULD IMAGINE THIS IS MUSIC TO REPUBLICANS' EARS.
>> YEAH, LOOK, THE REPUBLICANS REALLY WANT TO RUN AGAINST JOE BIDEN.
THAT'S -- TIM ALBERTA HAS A GREAT PIECE OF REPORTING ON THIS IN "THE ATLANTIC."
IT'S VERY OBVIOUS THAT THIS IS A CAMPAIGN THAT WAS BUILT AROUND DONALD TRUMP BEING ABLE TO BEAT JOE BIDEN.
IF YOU LISTEN TO VOTERS AND THE TRUMP TEAM IS LISTENING TO THE SAME SWING VOTERS THAT I'M LISTENING TO, JOE BIDEN'S AGE HAS BEEN AN ENORMOUS LIABILITY FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW, AND THAT DEBATE, WHICH CONFIRMED PEOPLE'S FEARS -- IT WOULD BE ONE THING IF JOE BIDEN HAD HAD A GREAT DEBATE AND HE HAD ALLAYED PEOPLE'S FEARS ABOUT HIS AGE, SORT OF LIKE HE DID WITH THE STATE OF THE UNION, BUT INSTEAD, IT CONFIRMED WHAT PEOPLE THINK.
AND WHAT I HEAR FROM VOTERS IN THE FOCUS GROUPS IS THAT THEY DON'T HATE JOE BIDEN.
THEY'RE NOT -- THEY THINK HE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMY.
DON'T LOVE IMMIGRATION, BUT THEY REALLY DISLIKE DONALD TRUMP, AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO AFFIRMATIVELY VOTE FOR, BUT THEY DON'T THINK JOE BIDEN CAN SERVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.
I MEAN, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO THEM THAT HE IS RUNNING AGAIN.
THEY DON'T THINK HE'LL SURVIVE THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.
THEY CERTAINLY DON'T THINK HE CAN IMPLEMENT A FORWARD-LOOKING AGENDA, AND SO AT THIS POINT THE VOTERS SORT OF SAY, LOOK, IF WE'RE ALREADY VOTING FOR KAMALA HARRIS ULTIMATELY, THEN WHY ISN'T THE NOMINEE JUST KAMALA HARRIS, OR WHY ISN'T IT SOMEBODY ELSE?
I MEAN, THEY'RE DESPERATE.
THE VOTERS ARE DESPERATE FOR A DIFFERENT CANDIDATE THAN JOE BIDEN, AND LOOK, THE DONALD TRUMP WE SAW YESTERDAY, THAT MAN IS ALSO VERY OLD AND VERY DIMINISHED AND GIVING AN UTTERLY BIZARRE SPEECH THAT ANY SORT OF 50, 60-YEAR-OLD DEMOCRAT WHO CAN GO AND PROSECUTE A CASE AGAINST TRUMP, GO ON OFFENSE AGAINST TRUMP, I THINK THEY COULD DO VERY WELL.
I THINK THEY COULD WIN.
I THINK JOE BIDEN CAN'T WIN.
>> YEAH, TRACK STRATEGIST PAUL BEGALA GAVE YOU A SHOUTOUT IN THE LAST HOUR WHEN I WAS TALKING TO HIM BY REFERENCING A POINT THAT YOU'VE MADE THAT THERE, IS QUOTE, NOT A PRO-BIDEN MAJORITY, BUT THERE IS AN ANTI-TRUMP MAJORITY.
THAT BRINGS US TO THE QUESTION OF KAMALA HARRIS AND THE ROLE AND THE PREDICAMENT SHE'S IN NOW IF IT APPEARS THAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE FAITH IN HIS VICE PRESIDENT IN DEFEATING DONALD TRUMP.
I MEAN, WHAT THAT MEANS FOR PERHAPS SOMETHING CHANGING DOWN THE ROAD WHERE SHE DOES ULTIMATELY BECOME THE CANDIDATE THERE, AND SHE'S REALLY MADE A NAME FOR HERSELF, I WOULD SAY, EVEN WITHIN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO, THE WEEKS FOLLOWING THAT DEBACLE OF A DEBATE, AND ON THE ISSUE PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT FOR DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AND EVEN FOR MANY REPUBLICAN WOMEN, MODERATE WOMEN, AND THAT IS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T HEAR MUCH ABOUT, I THINK, DELIBERATELY THIS WEEK AT THE RN RNC.
HERE'S WHAT SHE SAID EARLIER THIS WEEK AFTER THE NOMINATION OF J.D.
VANCE.
>> RECENTLY THE FORMER PRESIDENT SELECTED HIS RUNNING MATE, THE SENATOR VANCE, J.D.
VANCE.
UNDERSTAND THIS IS A FELLOW WHO IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE PARTICIPATED IN BLOCKING PROTECTIONS FOR IVF.
THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS SAID HE IS FOR A NATIONAL AND HAS MADE EVERY INDICATION THAT HE IS FOR A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN.
>> SO SARAH, WHAT DO YOU MAKE AND WHAT DO SOME OF THOSE NEVER TRUMP REPUBLICANS OR UNDECIDED VOTERS THINK ABOUT KAMALA HARRIS?
DO THEY VIEW HER IN A NEW LIGHT NOW?
IS THERE OPPORTUNITY FOR HER TO BE VIEWED THAT WAY?
>> YEAH, SO HERE'S WHAT'S INTERESTING.
LOOK, I HAVE ASKED VOTERS ABOUT KAMALA HARRIS FOR YEARS NOW, AND THEY'RE NOT WILD ABOUT HER.
I DON'T WANT TO -- I'LL BE COMPLETELY HONEST, BUT THEY TEND TO HAVE AN IMPRESSION OF HER, SORT OF A SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE IMPRESSION.
THE MAIN THING THAT VOTERS SAY IS I DON'T REALLY SEE HER.
WHAT IS SHE DOING?
I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HER.
AND SO WHEN YOU HEAR THAT, WHAT YOU KNOW IS THAT SHE CAN TURN THIS THING AROUND, RIGHT?
THEIR IMPRESSION OF JOE BIDEN NOW IS LOCKED IN.
THEY THINK HE'S TOO OLD.
THEY DO NOT THINK HE CAN DO THE JOB.
WITH KAMALA HARRIS, THERE IS UPSIDE IF SHE CAN GO PROSECUTE THE CASE.
DONALD TRUMP AND J.D.
VANCE -- AND J.D.
VANCE IS A STRANGE PICK FOR TRUMP IN THE SENSE THAT HE BRINGS WITH HIM A LOT OF LIABILITIES ON SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT TLURUMP WASN'T AS VULNERABLE ON LIKE ABORTION, VOTERS SEE TRUMP AS A CULTURAL MOD MODERATE.
J.D.
VANCE IS LIKE THE 2022 CANDIDATES WHO LOST UP AND DOWN THE BALLOT BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO EXTREME ON ABORTION.
PUT SOMEBODY LIKE KAMALA HARRIS IN THERE, PUT SOME OTHER DEMOCRAT IN THERE WHO CAN PROSECUTE A CASE AND MAKE THIS ELECTION ABOUT TRUMP AND HOW DANGEROUS HE IS, WHO CAN REMIND PEOPLE ABOUT JANUARY 6th.
VOTERS AREN'T JUST THINKING ABOUT JANUARY 6th RANDOMLY.
THEY'RE MOSTLY THINKING ABOUT PRICES AT THE GROCERY STORE.
IF THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS ARE IN A TOUGHER POSITION.
BUT IF YOU ARE REMINDING THEM ALL THE TIME ABOUT ABORTION, ABOUT JANUARY 6th, ABOUT TRUMP'S CHAOS, ABOUT HIS LEGAL ISSUES, ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE'S A RAPIST.
I THINK THE PROSECUTOR VERSUS THE FELON IS A GOOD FRAME.
I THINK THERE ARE EVEN BETTER PEOPLE ON THE DEMOCRATIC BENCH WHO WOULD FARE VERY WELL AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO BE FOR DEMOCRATS TO FIGURE OUT.
I DO KNOW THAT THIS -- THAT JOE BIDEN IS NOT IN A POSITION TO PROSECUTE THAT CASE.
WE'VE SEEN IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH OUR OWN EYES AND THAT'S JUST WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO BEAT TRUMP.
>> SO BACK TO REPUBLICANS AND THE TRUMP VANCE TICKET, WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE HEADED TO MICHIGAN TODAY, AND THAT IS AN IMPORTANT SWING STATE FOR THEM, A BATTLEGROUND STATE.
THERE HAD BEEN QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT, IF ANYTHING, J.D.
VANCE BRINGS TO THE TABLE REGARDING SOME OF THOSE BATTLEGROUND STATES AND WHAT HE WINS FOR DONALD TRUMP.
IT APPEARS THAT THAT MAY BE NOTHING OTHER THAN THEM HAVING CHEMISTRY AND TRUMP VIEWING VANCE AS THE FUTURE OF THE PARTY.
BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT THEIR ULTIMATE OBJECTIVES NEED TO BE GOING FORWARD TO WIN OVER MORE OF THOSE IMPORTANT STATES?
>> WELL, SO HERE'S WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT -- AND THIS WAS TRUE IN THE CONVENTION, AND IT'S BEEN TRUE, I THINK, OF HOW TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN CONDUCTING ITSELF, AND YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE CHOICE OF J.D.
VANCE.
THEY'RE DOUBLING DOWN ON MAGA.
IF HE PICKED MARCO RUBIO OR A NIKKI HALEY OR SOMEBODY THAT WOULD APPEAL TO THESE COLLEGE EDUCATED SUBURBAN VOTERS, THAT WOULD BE ONE KIND OF WAY TO EXPAND TRUMP'S COALITION.
THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.
IN LARGE PART BECAUSE A LOT OF THOSE COLLEGE EDUCATED SUBURBAN VOTERS ARE PRETTY FIRMLY PART OF THAT COALITION I TALKED ABOUT.
THE BIGGEST COALITION IN AMERICAN POLITICS IS AN ANTI-TRUMP COALITION, BUT I THINK WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO WITH J.D.
VANCE AND JUST WITH HULK HOGAN AND THEIR TIKTOK CELEBRITIES OR INFLUENCERS, THIS IS ABOUT EXPANDING THE ELECTORATE, LOW PROPENSITY VOTERS WHO MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE ENGAGED IN POLITICS, BUT ARE INTERESTED IN DONALD TRUMP.
SO THEY ARE TRYING TO EXPAND THEIR TENT, JUST NOT IN THE WAY YOU'D NORMALLY THINK ABOUT IT, AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT J.D.
VANCE IS ABOUT.
IT'S ABOUT CAN YOU FIND LOW PROPENSITY MEN WHO DON'T OTHERWISE VOTE AND GET THEM TO COME OUT FOR DONALD TRUMP?
>> WELL, THEY PUT ON QUITE A SHOW THIS WEEK IN MILWAUKEE.
SARAH LONGWELL, THANK YOU AS ALWAYS FOR YOUR EXPERTISE.
>> LET'S GET MORE ON THE GROWING PRESSURE ON PRESIDENT BIDEN TO DROP OUT OF THE RACE AND WHO WILL REPLACE HIM.
JOINING ME NOW IS TIM RYAN, A FORMER DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN.
HE ALSO RAN A TIGHT SENATE RACE AGAINST REPUBLICAN VP PICK J.D.
VANCE IN OHIO, CAME WITHIN JUST A FEW PERCENTAGE POINTS IN THAT RACE.
THE PERFECT PERSON TO HAVE ON TODAY.
TIM, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
SO QUITE THE POSITION THAT YOUR PARTY IS IN RIGHT NOW WHERE YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO DESPITE REPEATED CALLS AND GROWING CALLS, THERE'S JUST BEEN A VERY DIRECT LETTER THAT ZOE LOFGREN PUT OUT ALSO ADDING TO THE LIST OF THE ELECTED DEMOCRATIC OFFICIALS WHO ARE CALLING FOR HIM TO STEP ASIDE AS THE NOMINEE.
I BELIEVE JUST IN THE LAST FEW HOURS WE'RE HITTING 30.
PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS HE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING BACK ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL NEXT WEEK.
I MEAN, WATCHING ALL OF THIS, WHAT IS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND?
>> WELL, I'M TRYING TO REMAIN SEMI OPTIMISTIC HERE THAT -- >> IS THAT THROUGH MEDITATION?
>> THAT HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS.
MY HOT YOGA AND MEDITATION PRACTICE HAS BEEN ESSENTIAL TO SURVIVAL HERE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SURVIVE WITHOUT IT.
BUT YEAH, I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE'S TRYING TO GIVE HIM HIS SPACE.
WE HEARD ABOUT NANCY PELOSI, WHO IS THE GODMOTHER OF DEMOCRATIC POLITICS.
A CHIEF STRATEGIST, NOBODY MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN HER.
I THINK GOING DIRECTLY TO THE PRESIDENT AND SOUNDS LIKE EVEN TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT'S AIDE WHO'S GIVING THE PRESIDENT THE POLLING NUMBERS THAT NO ONE ELSE BELIEVES, AND SO THAT WAS SOME TOUGH TALK AND SOME TOUGH LOVE, AND I JUST THINK THAT THIS WEEKEND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHERE THINGS GO.
I KNOW THERE'S A BUNCH OF SENATORS WAITING TO COME OUT, DOZENS AND DOZENS OF HOUSE MEMBERS WAITING TO COME OUT, BUT EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO BE RESPECTFUL, SO I'M TRYING TO REMAIN SEMI OPTIMISTIC HERE AND HOPE THAT THINGS FALL THE RIGHT WAY.
>> BUT HOW MUCH TIME REALLY IS THERE FOR A BIG CHANGE TO OCCUR?
BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT THAT DEADLINE FOR THE ROLL CALL COMING UP I THINK AUGUST 1st.
"PUNCHBOWL NEWS" IS REPORTING THAT THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP ON CAPITOL HILL IF BIDEN DOESN'T EXIT THE RACE BY EARLY NEXT WEEK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CHUCK SCHUMERS AND HAKEEM JEFFRIES FORCED TO COME PUBLIC WITH THEIR MISGIVINGS ABOUT HIS CANDIDACY.
REGARDLESS, THE LONGER HE STAYS IN THE RACE, DOESN'T THAT JUST WEAKEN HIM AS A CANDIDATE AND WHOEVER THE CANDIDATE WOULD BE EVENTUALLY IF HE DOES ULTIMATELY DECIDE TO STEP ASIDE?
>> WELL, I THINK IT DEFINITELY WEAKENS HIM.
BUT I DO THINK KAMALA HARRIS, WHICH IS MY PICK, IF SHE EMERGES OR THERE'S A PASS OFF TO THE VICE PRESIDENT, I THINK THERE'S AN IMMEDIATE RESET.
SO I'M NOT WORRIED IF THAT'S SUNDAY, MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THAT IS GOING TO BE AN IMMEDIATE INTERJECTION OF A TON OF -- AN INJECTION OF A TON OF ENERGY INTO OUR CAMPAIGN.
I MEAN, I'M JUST GETTING TEXTS FROM PEOPLE AS I'VE BEEN ON TV OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS THAT ARE JUST EXCITED AFTER WATCHING THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION.
LIKE DEMOCRATS ARE LIKE, OKAY, THIS IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION.
LET'S GET SOMEBODY WHO CAN ACTUALLY TAKE THIS GUY ON.
PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN THE DARK AGES AGAIN AND LIVE IN THIS JUST KIND OF VERY DARK, NARROW, NEGATIVE WORLD THAT TRUMP PAINTED LAST NIGHT.
AMERICANS WANT TO BE ENERGIZED.
THEY WANT ASPIRATION, AND THAT'S THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN THAT WE NEED TO BRING, AND IF WE DO THAT, WE'RE GOING TO PULL ALL THOSE VOTERS SARAH WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IN YOUR LAST SEGMENT, THOSE INDEPENDENT VOTERS, SUBURBAN, I DON'T KNOW, YOU LIVE IN SUBURBAN COLUMBUS, OHIO, IT'S A MULTICULTURAL SUBURBAN LEANING REPUBLICAN AREA, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, AREN'T WHITE IRISH CATHOLIC LIKE ME, YOU KNOW.
AND SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MASS DEPORTATIONS, MOMS REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS, ARE THINKING, WAIT A MINUTE, HOW FAR CAN THIS GO?
AND YOU KNOW, LET'S BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN HERE, THOSE ARE GOING -- THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME VOTE FOR KAMALA HARRIS IF WE GET OUR MESSAGE RIGHT.
>> WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ALREADY TALKING ABOUT TRUMP'S AT TIMES, YOU KNOW, NONSENSICAL COMMENTS, I THINK 20 PLUS LIES THERE.
HE SORT OF VEERED INTO TRADITIONAL OLD TRUMP, DESPITE STICKING TO THE SCRIPT AND MESSAGE THEY SAID OF UNITY IN THE FIRST 30 MINUTES OF THE SPEECH.
THAT ASIDE, I DO WANT TO PLAY, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME REALLY IMPACTFUL, POWERFUL MOMENTS FROM SOME OF THE OTHER SPEAKERS THAT WE SAW THERE AT THE CONVENTION.
EVERYDAY AMERICAN VOTERS, VOTERS WHO INCIDENTALLY, QUITE A FEW OF THEM WERE FORMER DEMOCRATS THAT SAID THEY CAME OVER TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR A MYRIAD OF REASONS.
I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FROM ONE MOTHER, JUST AN ORDINARY CITIZEN WHOSE SON HAD UNFORTUNATELY DIED AT THE HANDS OF DRUG ADDICTION.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SO MANY AMERICANS HAVE FACED AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH.
LET'S PLAY SOUND FROM THAT.
>> AND ON FEBRUARY 27th, 2022, OUR LIVES WERE SHATTERED, AND OUR BABY WAS GONE.
THIS WAS NOT AN OVERDOSE.
IT WAS A POISONING.
HIS WHOLE FUTURE, EVERYTHING WE EVER WANTED FOR HIM WAS RIPPED AWAY IN AN INSTANT, AND JOE BIDEN DOES NOTHING.
>> WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE FOR DEMOCRATS HOW TO COUNTER POWERFUL MOMENTS LIKE THAT OF EVERYDAY AMERICANS SUFFERING THROUGH WHETHER IT'S THE DEATH OF A LOVED ONE DUE TO DRUG ADDICTION, WHETHER IT'S ECONOMIC CHALLENGES, WHAT IS YOUR -- WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON WHAT DEMOCRATS CAN DO TO REINFORCE THEIR ENGAGEMENT ON THESE ISSUES?
>> WELL, YOUR HEART JUST GOES OUT TO PARENTS LIKE THAT.
THAT'S THE WORST NIGHTMARE FOR ANY PARENT, SO I'M GETTING CHOKED UP JUST LISTENING.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT FOR A LARGE SWATH OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY THAT THINGS AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY WANT IT TO BE.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT -- AND THIS HAS BEEN MY KIND OF BEEF WITH DEMOCRATS A LOT.
YOU CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT THE GDP.
YOU CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT MACROECONOMIC NUMBERS BECAUSE THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING HURT BY THE HIGH PRICE OF GROCERIES OR GAS OR WHATEVER.
YOU HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO SAY, LOOK, HERE'S WHAT WE'VE DONE TO TRY TO FIX THIS, AND I THINK -- I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS A LOT TO TALK ABOUT, AND HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, AND WE CAN'T ACHIEVE ANY OF THIS IF WE'RE SO DIVIDED.
SO WE HAVE TO COME TOGETHER IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE ANY OF THIS.
LIKE, WE'RE RESHORING JOBS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 40 YEARS, CHIP MANUFACTURERS, ELECTRIC VEHICLES, MANUFACTURING JOBS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF.
OUR WHOLE ENERGY DEMAND IS GOING -- THE PROJECTIONS FOR ENERGY ARE DOUBLING BECAUSE OF DATA CENTERS AND AI AND INNOVATION THAT'S HAPPENING HERE.
THOSE ARE KIND OF REAL FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS, BUT WE WANT TO BRING EVERYBODY ALONG, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IF WE'RE DIVIDED, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IF WE'RE NEGATIVE, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IF WE'RE CALLING THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL PARTY THE ENEMY.
THAT'S -- THESE ARE COMMON ENEMIES, POVERTY, DISEASE, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC INSECURITY.
THOSE ARE OUR COLLECTIVE COMMON ENEMY THAT WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.
AND I TELL PEOPLE A LOT NOT TO GO ON TOO MUCH, BUT THE ONLY REASON WE'RE HERE AS A SPECIES RIGHT NOW AND SURVIVED EVERYTHING -- WE'RE NOT THE THE FASTEST, WE'RE NOT THE STRONGEST.
WE COOPERATED WITH EACH OTHER.
THAT'S THE ONLY -- WE LEARNED HOW TO TALK TO EACH OTHER.
WE LEARNED HOW TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE STILL HERE, SO IF WE CAN GET BACK TO THESE BASIC KIND OF FUNDAMENTAL THINGS AND GRAB THE AMERICAN SPIRIT.
THERE WAS NO AMERICAN SPIRIT THIS WEEK.
IN THAT ROOM MAYBE THEY FELT SOMETHING, BUT CLEARLY IT WAS EXCLUSIONARY.
IT WAS FULL OF BLAME.
IT WAS FULL OF NEGATIVITY, AND IT WAS FULL OF HOW BAD THINGS ARE.
YOU THINK A RONALD REAGAN, YOU THINK A JACK KENNEDY, YOU THINK A FDR, YOU THINK A BILL CLINTON, YOU THINK A BARACK OBAMA, EVEN GEORGE W. BUSH WAS SAYING WE COULD DO BETTER.
WE MAY NOT AGREE ON HOW WE GET THERE, BUT THE VIEW WAS OPTIMISTIC.
YOU KNOW, GEORGE W. BUSH TRIED TO PASS IMMIGRATION REFORM.
>> YEAH.
>> I MEAN, PEOPLE FORGET THAT, AND RUSH LIMBAUGH DEEP SIXED HIM WITH RIGHT WING TALK RADIO.
I WAS AROUND, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT.
SO THESE PRESIDENTS ARE MEANT TO BRING US TOGETHER AND HAVE ASPIRATION.
DONALD TRUMP'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE, AND SO IF WE CAN GET A CANDIDATE THAT CAN ARTICULATE THAT ASPIRATION, THAT CAN INSPIRE US TO COME TOGETHER, WE WILL BLOW HIM OUT.
WE WILL WIN THE HOUSE -- >> ARE YOU THROWING YOUR HAT IN THE RING FOR THAT CANDIDACY?
>> NO, NO, I'M NOT.
I WILL BE -- I WILL BE IN THE FIGHT AT SOME LEVEL.
I'M NOT THROWING MY HAT IN THE RING.
>> SITTING THIS ONE OUT.
>> I'M ENJOYING MY TIME DOING HOT YOGA AND TIME FOR MEDITATION.
>> WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE YOU ON FOR A SEGMENT JUST ON THAT ALONE BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF AMERICANS REALLY NEED TO FOCUS ON THAT PRACTICE RIGHT NOW ESPECIALLY.
THE LAST MINUTE WE HAVE TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, YOU OF ALL PEOPLE KNOW J.D.
VANCE QUITE WELL.
YOU RAN AGAINST HIM.
AS YOU SAID, UP UNTIL LABOR DAY YOU WERE THREE POINTS NECK IN NECK.
IT WAS REALLY ANYBODY'S BATTLE TO WIN AT THAT POINT, AND YOU ULTIMATELY LOST, BUT IT WAS EXPOSED THAT HE WAS A WEAKER CANDIDATE THAN MANY HAD EXPECTED, AND YOU BLAME THAT ON A LOT OF FUNDING FROM REPUBLICANS THAT YOU SAY YOU DIDN'T GET FROM DEMOCRATS AS WELL.
WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE NOW FOR DEMOCRATS AS WE KNOW WHO THIS TICKET IS.
WE KNOW TRUMP, WE'VE COVERED HIM A LOT, BUT J.D.
VANCE IN PARTICULAR, MOST AMERICANS D DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS PRIOR TO THIS WEEK.
WHAT IS YOUR SENSE ON HOW DEMOCRATS CAN APPROACH HIM?
>> WELL, HE'S NOT FOR FREEDOM, A FUNDAMENTAL VALUE HERE IN THE COUNTRY.
HE WANTS TO TELL WOMEN WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR BODIES, AND YOU HEARD KAMALA ARTICULATE THAT EARLIER AROUND A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN, IVF, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.
HE TOLD WOMEN THAT THEY SHOULD STAY IN VIOLENT MARRIAGES FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR KIDS, SO TOTALLY NOT FOR FREEDOM.
HE THINKS THERE SHOULD BE A CAESAR IN AMERICA TO TAKE OVER AND FIX EVERYTHING.
HE'S NOT FOR FREEDOM IN UKRAINE.
SO WE EXPOSED HIM AS A REAL EXTREMIST, AND THAT STUCK.
LIKE YOU SAID, WE WERE UP THREE POINTS GOING INTO LABOR DAY, AND THEY CAME IN, MITCH McCONNELL CAME IN WITH 40 MILLION FOR HIM.
WE DIDN'T GET ONE DOLLAR FROM THE SENATE MAJORITY PAC ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, AND THEY WERE ABLE TO BURY US IN MONEY, BUT THAT PLAN, THAT STRATEGY WORKS.
IT WILL WORK AGAINST TRUMP AND J.D.
VANCE, AND WE JUST GOT TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT AND GET THE CAMPAIGN GOING, BUT YOU GOT TO HAVE SOMEBODY THAT CAN ARTICULATE THAT MESSAGE, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE KEY FOR US.
>> THAT IS THE KEY IS TO FIGURE OUT WHO THAT CANDIDATE WILL BE.
IN THE MEANTIME, GO GET YOUR YOGA MAT, ENJOY YOUR HOT YOGA AND MEDITATION.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.
YOU LOOK WELL-RESTED.
IT'S DOING SOMETHING FOR YOU.
>> THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.
>>> NOW WE TURN OUR FOCUS TO A SMALL COURT ABOUT A THOUSAND MILES EAST OF MOSCOW WHERE AMERICAN JOURNALIST EVAN GERSHKOVICH HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF ESPIONAGE BY A RUSSIAN COURT AND SENTENCED TO 16 YEARS IN A PENAL COLONY.
NOW HIS FRIENDS, FAMILY, HIS EMPLOYER, T"THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" AND THE WHITE HOUSE HAVE ALL SLAMMED THE TRIAL AS A SHAM.
AND MANY BELIEVE GERSHKOVICH IS BEING USED AS A BARGAINING CHIP BY THE KREMLIN.
CORRESPONDENT MATTHEW CHANCE WHO HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN IN THE COURTROOM DURING THIS CASE HAS THE LATEST WITH THIS REPORT.
>> AHEAD OF THE VERDICT IN THE RUSSIAN COURT AS CAMERAS JOSTLED FOR A KBGLIMPSE OF THE U.S.
JOURNALIST IN HIS GLASS CAGE, AF AFTER FINDING HIM GUILTY OF ESPI ESPIONAGE, THE JUDGE ASKED HIM IF HE HAD ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE 16-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE HE'D BEEN HANDED.
LOOKING THIN AND TIRED, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTER ANSWERED NO.
THE CRITICS SAY HIS GUILTY VERDICT WAS INEVITABLE AND UNDERLINES HOW POLITICIZED RUSSIA'S JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS BECOME.
STRONGLY WORDED STATEMENT FROM GERSHKOVICH'S EMPLOYERS CALLED IT A DISGRACEFUL AND SHAM CONVICTION THAT COMES AFTER HIS 478 DAYS IN PRISON WRONGFULLY DETAINED AND AWAY FROM HIS FAMILY.
>> YOU CAN SEE EVAN GERSHKOVICH IS IN THERE, MATTHEW FROM CNN, ARE YOU HOLDING UP ALL RIGHT?
>> IT'S BEEN A SAGA WHICH HAS SEEN EVAN GERSHKOVICH NOW 32 MAKE SEVERAL TIGHTLY CONTROLLED COURT APPEARANCES SINCE BEING DETAINED AND ACCUSED OF GATHERING SECRET INFORMATION ON A RUSSIAN TANK FACTORY FOR THE CIA.
ALLEGATIONS DENIED BY GERSHKOVICH AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
THERE ARE OTHER U.S. CITIZENS HELD IN RUSSIA.
>> I'M INNOCENT OF ANY CHARGES.
>> LIKE PAUL WHELAN, A FORMER MARINE SENTENCED IN 2020 TO 16 YEARS FOR SPYING AND ALSO DESIGNATED BY WASHINGTON AS WRONGLY DETAINED.
DUAL CITIZEN SEN YA AND AM TA BALLERINA FROM L.A. AND JOURNALIST AL SUE KERR MACHE VA ARE ALSO IN CUSTODY.
GORDON BLACK, A STAFF SERGEANT IN THE U.S. ARMY, AND U.S. SCHOOL TEACHER, MARK FOGEL.
CRITICS SUSPECT THE KREMLIN HAS BEEN COLLECTING U.S. CITIZENS AS BARGAINING CHIPS FOR A FUTURE DEAL.
BUT EVEN NOW THAT DEAL COULD STILL BE MONTHS OR PERHAPS YEARS AWAY.
>> WE'LL CONTINUE TO COVER THIS STORY, MATTHEW CHANCE REPORTING THERE.
>>> WE RETURN HERE TO THE U.S. WHERE THERE'S GOING TO BE ONE BIG WINNER THIS NOVEMBER, AND OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES IT'S NOT GOING TO BE REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS, BUT LOBBY GROUPS.
PULITZER PRIZE WINNING INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER BRODY MULLINS JOINING HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS HIS NEW BOOK WHICH CHRONICLES HOW LAWMAKERS HAVE BROUGHT IN A NEW ERA OF PUBLIC POLICY TO THE BENEFIT OF CORPORATE AMERICA.
>> BRODY MULLINS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
YOU ARE A CO-AUTHOR WITH YOUR BROTHER ON A NEW BOOK CALLED "THE WOLVES OF K STREET: THE SECRET HISTORY OF HOW BIG MONEY TOOK OVER BIG GOVERNMENT."
THANKS FOR BEING WITH US, AND I WONDER WHY THIS BOOK, WHY NOW?
>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON, OUR REPORTING IF YOU TALK TO REPUBLICANS AND SAY WHAT'S WRONG WITH WASHINGTON, THEY BLAME DEMOCRATS.
AND IF YOU TALK TO DEMOCRATS, THEY BLAME REPUBLICANS, AND WHAT WE'RE REALLY IDENTIFYING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, CORPORATE AMERICA IS A LOT OF THE PROBLEM IN WASHINGTON.
CORPORATE AMERICA WIN WHETHER REPUBLICANS ARE IN CHARGE OR DEMOCRATS ARE IN CHARGE, AND WE EXPOSE SORT OF HOW THEY USE THEIR POWER, INFLUENCE, AND MONEY TO CHANGE PUBLIC POLICY TO HELP BIG COMPANIES AND EXECUTIVES AND NOT THE REST OF US.
>> GIVE ME AN IDEA, WHAT KINDS OF LAWS OR LEGISLATION HAVE LOBBYISTS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN EITHER CREATING OR TWEAKING OR STOPPING?
>> WELL, ONE, HOW MUCH TAME DO WE HAVE HERE?
WE COULD GO ON FOREVER.
BUT TO TAKE A RECENT EXAMPLE.
THINK ABOUT THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WHERE JOE BIDEN, ELIZABETH WARREN, EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT RUNNING FOR CONGRESS OR FOR THE PRESIDENCY WAS SAYING THEY WERE GOING TO ROLL BACK THE TRUMP CORPORATE TAX CUTS, THE $1.3 TRILLION TAX CUT TRUMP ENACTED.
DEMOCRATS WERE ELECTED TO GET RID OF THAT TAX CUT, AND CORPORATE AMERICA AND THEIR LOBBIES HAD SO MUCH INFLUENCE, THERE WAS NEVER A VOTE ON THAT.
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY BROUGHT THAT UP AND DEMOCRATS WERE NOT ABLE TO GET THE VOTES.
THEY COULDN'T EVEN BRIDNG A VOT TO IT.
THAT'S HOW MUCH POWER THE CORPORATE LOBBY HAS.
>> WHAT YOU POINT OUT AND YOU GO KIND OF FASCINATINGLY INTO THE HISTORY OF THIS IS THAT LOBBYING IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER HAS BEEN AROUND.
IN FACT, THE FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION EVEN KNEW THAT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE STATE WE'RE RIN TODAY.
>> ONE OF THE FASCINATING THINGS WE LEARNED IN OUR REPORTING WE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, IN THE FEDERALIST PAPERS, THE FRAMERS OF THE GOVERNMENT SAID, FIRST OF ALL, THERE WOULD BELOBBYING.
THEY DIDN'T CALL IT LOBBYING.
THEY CALLED IT INFACTIONS.
THEY FORESAW THERE WOULD BE AN INDUSTRY FACTION, BUSINESS OWNERS WOULD HAVE AN INTEREST GROUP ESSENTIALLY, AND THAT WORKERS WOULD HAVE AN INTEREST GROUP OR WHAT THEY CALLED A FACTION, WHICH BASICALLY BECAME LABOR UNIONS.
WHAT THEY THOUGHT IS THAT THOSE TWO FACTIONS WOULD BE SORT OF EQUAL SIZE AND STRENGTHS AND THEY WOULD BATTLE EACH OTHER TO MAKE -- COMPROMISE LEGISLATION.
AND THAT BASICALLY WORKED FOR MOST OF THE NEXT 200 YEARS.
THE PROBLEM NOW IS THAT CORPORATIONS HAVE SO MUCH MONEY AND SO MUCH INFLUENCE THEY BASICALLY DESTROY THE OTHER FACTIONS OR INTEREST GROUPS.
AS WE KNOW, LABOR UNIONS DON'T HAVE THE INFLUENCE THEY USED TO HAVE.
THE RALPH NADERS AND CONSUMERS GROUPS DON'T HAVE THE INFLUENCE THEY USED TO HAVE.
REALLY IT'S THE BIG COMPANIES PUTTING THEIR WHOLE HAND ON THE SCALE FOR A POLICY TO HELP COMPANIES AND NOT EVERYONE ELSE.
>> SO WHAT HAPPENED?
IF THIS IDEA THAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS HAD -- OKAY, THERE'S GOING TO BE THIS MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE THESE COMPETING FACTIONS, THIS TENSION WILL BALANCE ITSELF OUT.
IF THAT LASTED WELLISH FOR 200 YEARS, WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE GET TO THE 1970s?
>> YEAH, A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS HAPPENED IN THE 1970s.
THAT'S SORT OF THE KEY MOMENTUM.
BEFORE THE '70s, COMPANIES HAD RELATIVELY LITTLE INFLUENCE IN WASHINGTON.
RALPH NADER WAS THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSON ON PUBLIC POLICY MATTERS.
FROM THE NEW DEAL TO THE GREAT SOCIETY, THE GOVERNMENT REALLY GREW VERY QUICKLY, LOTS OF NEW RULES AND REGULATIONS AND ADMINISTRATION AGENCIES, AND COMPANIES FOR THE MOST PART DID NOT OPPOSE THOSE, THE GROWTH OF THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MONEY AND THINGS WERE FINE.
THEY WERE SPONSORING THE LITTLE LEAGUE TEAMS AND SUPPORTED THEIR EMPLOYEES.
WHAT CHANGES IN THE 1970s, THE ECONOMY TANKED.
COMPANY PROFITS EVAPORATED AND COMPANIES LOOKED AROUND FOR WHO TO BLAME FOR HOW TO GET BACK MAKING MONEY, AND THEY REALIZED THAT ALL THESE NEW RULES AND REGULATIONS WERE REALLY HINDERING THEIR ABILITY TO COMPETE IN THE MARKETPLACE AND TO MAKE MONEY AND COST THEM SO MUCH MONEY TO COMPLY WITH.
SO LIKE ANY GOOD BUSINESS PEOPLE, THEY INVESTED IN THEIR PROBLEM AND THEIR PROBLEM WAS THE GOVERNMENT, SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, THEY STARTED POURING MONEY INTO LOBBYING, INTO CAMPAIGN DONATIONS AND TO REALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME TAKING ACTION IN WASHINGTON AND GAINING THE POWERS THEY HAVE NOW.
>> YOU'VE GOT A STATISTIC IN THERE THAT I JUST WANT TO CITE HERE.
IT SAYS BY 2012 FOR EVERY DOLLAR SPENT BY CONSUMER GROUPS OR ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVISTS TO INFLUENCE FEDERAL POLICY, CORPORATIONS AND THEIR ALLIES WERE SPENDING $86.
EXPLAIN THAT TO US.
>> YEAH, AND THAT WAS MORE THAN A DECADE AGO, AND ALSO, THAT'S ONLY THE MONEY THAT WE KNOW THAT'S BEING SPENT.
SO MUCH OF LOBBYING IS NOW BEING SPENT OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON TO GET CONSTITUENTS AND BUSINESS GROUPS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO SUPPORT PRO-BUSINESS POLICIES, AND THAT MONEY IS NOT INCLUDED IN THAT TOTAL.
THE IDEA HERE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF BIG U.S. COMPANIES, AND THEY'RE ALL SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO IMPACT LEGISLATION, AND THEY'RE OVERWHELMING THE OPPOSITION, THE OPPOSITION BEING LABOR UNIONS OR CONSUMER GROUPS.
>> CAN YOU GIVE ME THE IDEA OF THE SCALE OF WHAT KIND OF MONEY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT?
WHO ARE THE BIGGEST PLAYERS?
HOW MUCH ARE THEY SPENDING?
>> RIGHT NOW THE BIG TECH COMPANIES DOMINATE THE LOBBYING GAME, BUT SO DOES THE U.S. CHAM PER OF COMMERCE, WHICH SPENDS $100 MILLION LOBBYING AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.
BUT MORE TO THE POINT HERE, ONE COMPANY, GENENTECH AND ONE OF THEIR LOBBYISTS, THEIR INTERNAL LOBBYING FIGURES THAT I GOT SHOW THAT ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO THEY WERE SPENDING ABOUT $50 MILLION LOBBYING WASHINGTON, BUT ONLY 5 MILLION OF THAT WAS IN THE DISCLOSE CATEGORY.
SO IF YOU TAKE THAT ACROSS EVERYONE ELSE, 1 OUT OF EVERY $10 IS BEING DISCLOSED AND 9 OUT OF 10 IS NOT DISCLOSED AND THAT'S THE ISSUE.
>> SOME OF LOBBYING AS YOU POINT OUT, YOU AND I CAN GO TO OPENSECRETS.GOV, AND YOU CAN START TO SEE WHO GOT A CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION FROM A COMPANY FOR HOW MUCH MONEY, RIGHT?
YOU CAN -- WE CAN EVEN GO INTO DIFFERENT DATABASES AND SEARCH FOR WHICH LOBBYIST MIGHT HAVE REGISTERED A VISIT TO A MEMBER OF CONGRESS OR THE WHITE HOUSE, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT, EVEN THOUGH THOSE ARE STAGGERING SUMS OF MONEY, THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE.
>> EXACTLY.
ONE THING WE WRITE ABOUT IN OUR BOOK IS HOW LOBBYING HAS MOVED FROM SORT OF A SMOKE FILLED ROOM WHERE LOBBYISTS GET SPECIAL FAVOR FAVORS AND GET ACCESS TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, USING OLD SCHOOL TACTICS LIKE STATE DINNERS AND ROUNDS OF GOLF.
SO MUCH OF LOBBYING NOW TAKES PLACE OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON.
AND LOBBYING OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON IS NOT DISCLOSED.
WHEN I SAY LOBBYING, WHAT WE REALIZED IS THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET REELECTED AND TO GET REELECTED YOU NEED 51% OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS TO SUPPORT YOU.
LOBBYISTS KNOW THAT.
LOBBYISTS NOW GO TO CONSTITUENTS AND COMPANIES AND EMPLOYEES AND TO THE INDUSTRY GROUPS AND OTHER CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS AND TRY TO GET THEIR SUPPORT FOR A TRADE POLICY OR AN R&D TAX CREDIT OR SOME IMMIGRATION REGULATION, AND IF YOU CAN GET THE SUPPORT OF CONSTITUENTS, THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WILL FOLLOW BECAUSE THE MEMBER OF CONGRESS WANTS TO GET REELECTED.
ALL OF THAT LOBBYING THAT'S TAKING PLACE NOW IS NOT DISCLOSED AT ALL.
TO GIVE YOU A STATISTIC, IN 2007 THE LAST TIME THERE WAS A MAJOR LOBBYING REFORM BILL IN D.C., THERE WERE ROUGHLY 12,000 REGISTERED LOBBYISTS IN D.C. TODAY 15 YEARS LATER, WITH CORPORATIONS HAVING SO MUCH INFLUENCE IN WASHINGTON SPENDING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO INFLUENCE WASHINGTON, THERE ARE STILL ONLY 12,000 REGISTERED LOBBYISTS IN WASHINGTON.
YOU KNOW, AND THAT MEANS THAT STATISTIC IS NOT ACCURATE.
I MEAN, THERE'S WAY MORE LOBBYISTS THAN THE 12,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE UNDER THE LAW.
>> MICROSOFT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST TECH COMPANIES AND ONE OF THE BIG TECH LOBBYISTS NOW, BUT THAT WASN'T ALWAYS THE CASE.
YOU POINT OUT THAT BILL GATES DIDN'T CARE MUCH FOR LOBBYING IN THE BEGINNING.
>> WHEN MICROSOFT GOT STARTED, BILL GATES SMARTLY, YOU KNOW, FOCUSED JUST ON HIS COMPANY AND MAKING THE BEST -- BEING THE BEST SOFTWARE COMPANY IN THE WORLD, WHICH HE SUCCEEDED AT, BUT THE PROBLEM THAT HE IGNORED WASHINGTON.
HE DIDN'T HIRE LOBBYISTS.
HE DIDN'T HAVE LAWYERS IN D.C.
HE DIDN'T HAVE -- WASN'T MAKING BIG PAC CONTRIBUTIONS AND HIS IDEA WAS THAT HE WAS SORT OF THE SMARTEST PERSON IN THE ROOM.
HE KNEW THE BEST WAY TO RUN HIS COMPANY, HE DIDN'T WANT PENNS WASHINGTON MEDDLING IN HIS BUSINESS.
THE MISTAKE CAME WHEN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OVER TIME DECIDED TO SUE MICROSOFT FOR BEING AN ANTITRUST MONOPOLY BECAUSE BILL GATES DIDN'T HAVE LOBBYISTS, HE DIDN'T HAVE EYES AND EARS, HE DIDN'T HAVE FRIENDSHIPS AND RELATIONSHIPS IN D.C., THEY WERE SORT OF CAUGHT BY SURPRISE, AND WEREN'T ABLE TO DO ANYTHING TO HEAD THAT OFF OR NIP IT IN THE BUD EARLY ON.
AS A RESULT, MICROSOFT AND BILL GATES SPENT TEN YEARS FIGHTING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S ANTITRUST LAWSUIT.
THAT'S TEN YEARS WHERE THEY WEREN'T FOCUSED ON INNOVATION, WEREN'T FOCUSED ON DEVELOPMENT, WEREN'T FOCUSED ON THEIR COMPANY.
THEY WERE DISTRACTED BY WASHINGTON.
SO WHEN GOOGLE CAME TO D.C. NTS EARLY 2000s, THEY REALIZED IN ORDER TO BE THE BIGGEST, MOST DOMINANT COMPANY IN THE COUNTRY, YOU REALLY NEED TO INVEST IN WASHINGTON, AND THEY HAVE, AND BY CONTRAST, YOU KNOW, IN THE 15 YEARS THAT GOOGLE HAS BEEN AN ENORMOUS -- AN ENORMOUS U.S. COMPANY AND ENORMOUS FORCE IN WASHINGTON, NOTHING BAD HAS HAPPENED.
THEY'VE DEFEATED EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT AT ANTITRUST INVESTIGATION OR ANY LEGISLATION ON CAPITOL HILL THAT COULD HARM THEM.
>> SO IF YOU ARE KIND OF A FORBES 500 COMPANY, CORPORATE LOBBYING IS JUST PART OF THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS LIKE HUMAN RESOURCES IS OR MARKETING IS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SURPRISED ME ABOUT WRITING THIS BOOK IS THAT I THOUGHT THAT SO MUCH OF LOBBYING WAS THE GOVERNMENT IS MAKING SOME NEW RULE OR REGULATION THAT AFFECTS AN INDUSTRY, SO AN INDUSTRY HIRES LOBBYISTS TO TRY TO BEND THAT REGULATION OR BLOCK THAT REGULATION OR CHANGE IT IN SOME SUBTLE WAY.
IN FACT, LOBBYING IS MUCH MORE ON THE OFFENSIVE WHERE COMPANIES HIRE LOBBIES TO COME TO D.C. TO CREATE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO BLOCK COMPETITORS OR TO CREATE BARRIERS TO ENTRY SO THEY ARE THE ONLY COMPANYS THAT CAN EXPAND IN THAT INDUSTRY.
>> GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.
>> WELL, LOOK AT DODD-FRANK AFTER THE HOUSING CRISIS.
YOU KNOW, WE CREATED THE BIG BANKS CAME TO D.C., THE LARGE BANKS AND CREATED THESE NEW CAPITAL REQUIREMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN RESERVE IN ORDER TO ENTER THESE MARKETPLACES.
GUESS WHAT, ONLY FIVE COMPANIES CAN AFFORD TO DO THAT, AND GUESS WHAT, THOSE ARE THE COMPANIES THAT LOBBIED TO CREATE THE LAW.
>> IS THERE A DIFFERENCE, A PARTISAN DIFFERENCE, I'M ASSUMING THAT LOBBYISTS WHO WORK FOR WHOEVER PAYS THE CHECK, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ACROSS YOUR RESEARCH, ACROSS DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS OF WHO'S IN POWER OR WHICH CONGRESS IS KIND OF IN CONTROL, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHEN IT COMES TO LOBBYING?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S FASCINATING.
THE ANSWER IS NO, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE FASCINATING THINGS.
LIKE WE SAID IN THE BEGINNING, COMPANIES AND CORPORATE LOBBYISTS WIN WHETHER DEMOCRATS ARE IN CONTROL OR WHETHER REPUBLICANS ARE IN CONTROL, AND YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE STATISTICS WE FOUND IS THAT YOU WOULD THINK THAT CORPORATE AMERICA WOULD WANT REPUBLICANS TO WIN AND WOULD SUPPORT REPUBLICANS, YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR CAMPAIGN DONATIONS.
IN FACT, CORPORATIONS JUST WANT TO BE WITH THE WINNER.
WE LOOKED AT CAMPAIGN FINANCE DATA AND THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE DATA SHOWS WHEN REPUBLICANS ARE IN CHARGE, WHEN THEY CONTROL THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONTROL CONGRESS, CORPORATIONS AND THEIR PACS DO GIVE ABOUT 60% OF THEIR MONEY TO REPUBLICANS.
BUT THEY STILL GIVE 40% OF THEIR MONEY TO DEMOCRATS, EVEN WHEN REPUBLICANS ARE IN CHARGE.
MORE FAS THCINATING WHEN DEMOCR ARE IN CHARGE, WHEN DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, CORPORATIONS GIVE 60% OF THEIR MONEY TO DEMOCRATS AND 40% TO REPUBLICANS.
SO THEY REALLY JUST WANT TO BE WITH THE WINNER.
THEY DON'T CARE WHO THE WINNER IS.
>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLITICS OF THE PREVIOUS COUPLE OF ADMINISTRATIONS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ANIMATED THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN EARLY ON THE FIRST TIME AROUND WAS TO DRAIN THE SWAMP, TO, YOU KNOW, GET THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY OUT OF WASHINGTON, AND WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IN THE BOOK IS THAT IT WASN'T AS SUCCESSFUL, AND IT MAYBE WOULD HAVE CHANGED -- IT CHANGED THE SCOPE AND WHERE THE POWER RESTED IN WASHINGTON FROM CONGRESS BACK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.
EXPLAIN THAT.
>> YEAH, SO THE WAY OUR GOVERNMENT HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST CENTURY IS THAT -- OR REALLY SINCE WATERGATE BACK IN THE 1970s, POWER HAS BECOME MORE DIFFUSE IN WASHINGTON.
BEFORE WATERGATE AND BEFORE NIXON OR THROUGH THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION, MOST GOVERNMENT POWERS HELD BY THE PRESIDENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS HAD, YOU KNOW, A ROLE IN CREATING RULES AND REGULATIONS AND LAWS, BUT REALLY THE WHITE HOUSE DOMINATED.
AFTER WATERGATE, WASHINGTON WAS REFORMED AND POWER WAS TAKEN FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, GIVEN TO CONGRESS, AND TAKEN FROM CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS AND GIVEN TO COMMITTEES AND SUBCOMMITTEE CHAIRS IS REGULAR MEMBERS.
SO POWER WAS DEMOCRATIZED.
TRUMP IS A REVERSAL FROM THAT.
TRUMP TOOK POWER BACK TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
HE REALIZED CORRECTLY THAT CONGRESS IS DYSFUNCTIONAL AND WOULD NOT PASS THE THINGS THAT HE WAS PROPOSING IN PART BECAUSE THE HOUSE AND SENATE ARE SO NARROWLY DIVIDED BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.
BUT EITHER WAY, TRUMP REALIZED IN ORDER TO GET THINGS DONE BECAUSE HE'S AN IMPATIENT GUY, IN ORDER TO GET THINGS DONE QUICKLY, HE HAD TO DO THINGS HIMSELF.
SO HE STARTED BASICALLY GOVERNING THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDER.
AN EXECUTIVE ORDER IS SOMETHING HE COULD SIGN THAT WOULD LAST THROUGH HIS ADMINISTRATION.
SO HE PASSED MORE EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAN ANYONE ELSE OR ANY MODERN PRESIDENT.
AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, IF COMPANIES WANTED SOMETHING, IT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT CONGRESS DID OR DIDN'T DO.
WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO IS GET TO TRUMP, AND THE THING ABOUT TRUMP IS THAT BECAUSE HE WAS AN OUTSIDER WHEN HE WAS ELECTED, MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SUPPORTED OTHER CANDIDATES AND DID NOT WANT TRUMP TO WIN THE ELECTION.
NOT MANY PEOPLE KNEW HIM WHEN HE CAME TO D.C., BUT THE FEW PEOPLE WHO DID KNOW HIM BECAME LOBBYISTS AND BECAME FABULOUSLY WEALTHY BECAUSE OF THEIR ACCESS TO HIM.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU POINT OUT IS THAT IF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP BECOMES PRESIDENT AGAIN, PAUL MANAFORT STANDS TO BECOME ONE OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL HUMANS ON THE PLANET.
WHY IS THAT?
>> YEAH, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE JUST SAID.
THERE'S ONLY A FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE TO TRUMP.
TRUMP VALUES LOYALTY ABOVE ANYTHING ELSE, AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONE PERSON IN AMERICA WHO HAS GONE TO JAIL FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND THAT IS PAUL MA MANAFORT, AND PAUL MANAFORT WORKED FOR DONALD TRUMP'S FIRST CAMPAIGN.
HIS PLAN BACK THEN WAS TO START A LOBBYING FIRM HAD TRUMP WON.
INSTEAD HE GOT WRAPPED UP IN THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION, WAS SENT TO JAIL AND LATER PARDONED BY TRUMP.
MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER PAUL MANAFORT A BIG LOSER RIGHT NOW WHO'S BEEN CHEWED UP AND SPIT OUT BY WASHINGTON POLITICS.
IF TRUMP WINS, PAUL MANAFORT WILL BE BACK AND I THINK HE WILL BE PAID FOR HIS LOYALTY WITH TONS OF LOBBYING CONTRACTS FROM U.S. COMPANIES AND FOREIGN COMPANIES.
I THINK HE'LL BE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL LOBBYIST WE'VE EVER SEEN.
>> THESE RELATIONSHIPS NOW SEEM TO MATTER KIND OF MORE THAN EVER, AND IT SEEMS LIKE A SAD REFLECTION THAT AT THE SAME TIME SO MANY PEOPLE FEEL DISCONNECTED FROM THE POLITICAL PROCESS.
THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICE COUNTS.
THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEIR VOTE COUNTS.
THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEIR IMPACT WOULD EVER BE ANYTHING MEANINGFUL ABOUT LEGISLATION OR POLICY, AND YET, YOU WERE POINTING OUT THAT THERE ARE THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO STILL HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO PEDDLE POWER.
>> THAT'S KIND OF ONE OF THE MAIN POINTS OF OUR BOOK.
THERE'S ESTABLISHMENT IN WASHINGTON, CORPORATE ELITE ESTABLISHMENT THAT BENEFITS WHETHER DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS WIN.
NO MATTER WHO WINS THE NEXT ELECTION, CORPORATIONS WILL BE THE WINNER.
THEY'VE GOT THEIR HOOKS INTO BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES, BOTH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES, AND THESE LOBBIES AND COMPANIES THEY EMPLOY REPUBLICAN LOBBYISTS AND DEMOCRAT LOBBYISTS.
IF TRUMP WIN THEY'LL REPORT THEIR REPUBLICAN LOBBIES, AND THOSE RELATIONSHIPS AND IF BIDEN WINS OR WHOEVER ELSE BECOMES THE NOMINEE, THEY'LL PROMOTE THEIR TRACK LOBBIES.
EITHER WAY THE COMPANIES THAT EMPLOY THEM WILL BE THE BIG WINNERS.
I FEEL LIKE THAT IS DISCONNECTING MANY PEOPLE FROM WASHINGTON, AND I DO THINK WE SEE AN INCREASING NUMBER OF POPULIST REPUBLICANS THESE DAYS, SORT OF ANTIESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS LIKE JOSH HAWLEY IN MISSOURI AND J.D.
VANCE FROM OHIO WHO ARE SAYING, HEY, THIS SYSTEM IS RIGGED, AND THEY'RE FIGHTING OUT AGAINST SOME OF THESE BIG COMPANIES AND THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY'RE SAYING THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED.
THESE BIG COMPANIES CAN AFFORD TO HIRE THESE LOBBYISTS TO MAKE THESE CAMPAIGN DONATIONS AND TO COME TO WASHINGTON AND CHANGE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS TO HELP BIG COMPANIES AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE.
>> THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE WOLVES OF K STREET: THE SECRET HISTORY OF HOW BIG MONEY TOOK OVER BIG GOVERNMENT," BRODY MULLINS, THANKS SO MUCH.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>>> AND NOW DONALD TRUMP CLOSED THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION IN FULL CONTROL OF HIS PARTY.
VOICES OF DISSENT HARDER TO FIND THAN EVER.
BUT IT WASN'T ALWAYS THAT WAY.
EIGHT YEARS AGO, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S BEEN EIGHT YEARS ALREADY, A NEWLY NOMINATED TRUMP FOUND HIMSELF ON A DIVIDED CONVENTION FLOOR FACING DOUBT, INFIGHTING AND ANGER WHILE THE NATION CONFRONTED SPIRALING CIVIL UNREST.
CHRISTIANE WAS THERE IN 2016 WHERE SHE SPOKE TO THE THEN HOST OF OF "THE DAILY SHOW," TREVOR NOAH AS THEY LOOKED TOWARDS A POSSIBLE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
>> TREFRP TREVOR NOAH, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT?
YOU COME FROM SOUTH AFRICA, YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS GIG, AMERICAN POLITICS FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO, HOW DOES THIS STACK UP FOR YOU?
>> I MEAN, THE CONVENTION IS NOT THE CRAZIEST THING.
YOU SEE POLITICAL CONVENTIONS IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, SOUTH AFRICA HAS SOMETHING SIMILAR WHERE THE PARTY GETS TOGETHER, AND YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DISCUSS AND VOTE FOR THE LEADER, BUT I GUESS THE RHETORIC AND THE EMOTION THAT IS AROUND THIS ELECTION, I GENUINELY HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
>> WHAT IS IT PARTICULARLY THAT YOU HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE?
I MEAN, WHAT IS THE MOST SURPRISING?
>> I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS IS THE FACT THAT TRUMP HAS HIJACKED POLITICAL PARTY.
I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN.
I'VE NEVER SEEN SOMEBODY TAKE A PARTY FROM OTHER PEOPLE AND THEN FORCE THEM TO COME TO THEIR OWN EVENT AND I GUESS RATIFY THAT DECISION.
COME OUT AND SAY, YES, WE'RE MAKING THIS OFFICIAL.
WE CHOOSE YOU.
THEY CAN'T EVEN SAY IT.
>> I MEAN, LOOK, THIS ONE IS NOTABLE.
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, FOR THE WHO ARE NOT COMING.
NO FORMER PRESIDENTS, NO FORMER REPUBLICAN NOMINEES.
VERY FEW, IF ANY OF HIS CHALLENGERS DURING THE CAMPAIGN.
HE DID GET 13 MILLION VOTES IN THE PRIMARY SEASON.
>> HE DID.
>> APPARENTLY A RECORD.
WHAT SHOULD WE TAKE FROM THAT?
>> I THINK THE FACT THAT POPULIST POLITICS IS REALLY GROWING IN THE WORLD.
THE FA ACCOUCT THAT PEOPLE ARE FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, AND THAT'S THE TIME WHEN I THINK DEMAGOGUES LIKE DONALD TRUMP CAN TAKE THE MOST ADVANTAGE BECAUSE WHAT YOU DO IS WHEN PEOPLE ARE AFRAID, YOU JUMP OUT AND YOU GO, I CAN ASSUAGE YOUR FEARS.
I HAVE THE SOLUTIONS.
NOBODY HAS A SOLUTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, WHETHER IT BE TERRORISM, THE SHRINKING MIDDLE CLASS.
NOBODY HAS A SOLUTION ON HAND.
REFUGEES AS WELL, EVERYONE HAS TO THINK OF A VARIETY OF FACTORS.
DONALD TRUMP SAYS THERE'S ONE SOLUTION, AND I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU, AND THAT SEEMS MORE CONFIDENT.
THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO GO, YOU KNOW WHAT?
I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR THAT BECAUSE IT SEEMS SURE.
>> THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONTROVERSY ABOUT THIS CANDIDACY.
THE PRESS HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF NOT HOLDING HIM TO ACCOUNT SUFFICIENTLY.
I MEAN, THE THING IS NOTHING SEEMS TO HAVE DENTED HIM.
>> HOW DO YOU DENT SOMETHING THAT IS IN AND OF ITSELF A GIANT DENT.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
EVERYONE'S TRYING TO SHAME DONALD TRUMP, AND HE IS SHAMELESS.
I REALIZED THE ONE DAY WHAT DONALD TRUMP DOES THAT NOBODY BEFORE HIM HAS DONE HE GOES IN HEAD FIRST.
YOU SAY HERE'S A STATEMENT, HERE'S A CONTROVERSY, AND HE SAYS I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER ONE, AND I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER ONE AND I'LL GIVE YOU -- HE GIVES YOU SO MANY.
>> HE DOUBLES DOWN.
>> THAT YOU CAN'T -- THINK ABOUT IT, HIS TAX RETURNS WERE THE BIGGEST NEWS.
NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.
THE WALL HAS JUST BECOME ACCEPTED AS A POLICY POSITION.
WE'RE NO LONGER HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HIS CHARITYS THAT HE HASN'T GIVEN MONEY TO AND WHERE THE MONEY IS FROM HIS FUNDRAISERS.
HE'S TALKING US TO THE NEXT THING.
NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PENCE.
WE HAVEN'T COMPLETED ANY OF THE THINGS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE BEFORE THIS.
WHAT HE DOES IS HE'S NOT AFRAID, DOUBLING DOWN IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT, A GROSS UNDERSTATEMENT.
HE'S QUADRUPLED DOWN, HE'S EVERYTHING DOWN.
>> WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?
YOU'RE THE ONLY LATE NIGHT SHOW HERE IN AMERICA WHO'S ACTUALLY COMING TO CLEVELAND, AND YOU'RE GOING TO BE LIVE BOTH HERE AND AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION THE FOLLOWING WEEK.
WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO BE ABLE TO DO, AND HOW ARE THEY, BY THE WAY, RECEIVING YOU?
YOU'VE PRETTY MUCH BEEN SPIKING THEM AND ALL POLITICIANS FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.
>> YOU KNOW WHAT'S FUNNY IS WHEN YOU BUMP INTO REPUBLICANS, I'VE NEVER SEEN PEOPLE BE MORE UNDERHANDED OR LIKE GIVE YOU MORE COMPLIMENTS ON THE SLY THAN I HAVE HERE WHERE PEOPLE GO GOOD JOB, GOOD JOB AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
I MEAN, I CAN'T SAY THIS IN PUBLIC, BUT THANK YOU.
GOOD JOB, BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONE YEAR WHERE THEY DON'T SUPPORT THEIR NOMINEE.
THEY WANT THE JABS.
THEY WANT SOMEONE POINTING THAT OUT.
THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN FACE, THOUGH.
SO WHAT'S REALLY FUN FOR US IS WE'RE IN CLEVELAND.
WE'RE GOING TO BE IN CLEVELAND.
WE'RE GOING TO BE IN PHILLY AS WELL, AND IT'S JUST FUN BECAUSE THIS IS MY FIRST CONVENTION.
THIS IS MY FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THIS.
YOU KNOW, NORMALLY WE'RE REPORTING ON WHAT PEOPLE ARE REPORTING ON.
NOW WE GET TO BE THERE.
WE GET TO EXPERIENCE IT.
WE GET TO FEEL.
I WAS AT THE PROTEST YESTERDAY.
I WAS JUST FEELING THE TENSION, YOU KNOW, WALKING THROUGH THE STREET, SEEING THE SECRET SERVICE.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE TOUGH TO I THINK RELATE TO AN AUDIENCE WHEN YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY THERE.
>> WE'RE IN A VERY, VERY DIVISIVE PERIOD OF NOT JUST AMERICAN HISTORY BUT GLOBAL HISTORY AT THE MOMENT.
LET'S JUST TAKE THE POLICE KILLINGS IN THIS COUNTRY.
YOU HAVE HAD A HUGE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE OF A PIECE YOU DID RIGHT AFTER THE KILLINGS IN LOUISIANA AND MINNESOTA OF THE TWO BLACK GUYS BY WHITE POLICE.
LET ME JUST PLAY A LITTLE BIT.
>> IF YOU'RE PRO-BLACK LIVES MATTER, YOU'RE ASSUMED TO BE ANTI-POLICE, AND IF YOU'RE PRO-POLICE, THEN YOU SURELY HATE BLACK PEOPLE.
IT SEEMS THAT IT'S EITHER PRO-COP AND ANTI-BLACK OR PRO-BLACK AND ANTI-COP WHEN IN REALITY, YOU CAN BE PRO-COP AND PRO-BLACK.
WHICH IS WHAT WE SHOULD ALL BE.
[ APPLAUSE ] >> HOW DOES A SATIRIST, A COMEDIAN LIKE YOURSELF DEALING WITH THE MOST IMPORTANT AND HEATED POLITICS OF THE MOMENT, LIKE PEOPLE SAY THEY'VE NEVER SEEN AMERICA LIKE THIS, AT LEAST NOT FOR DECADES, RIGHT?
HOW DO YOU NAVIGATE THAT IN A RESPONSE WAY WHILE YOU'RE STILL TRYING TO HAVE LAUGHS?
>> I THINK YOU -- IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE USING THE LAUGHS FOR.
I'VE COME TO REALIZE MORE AND MORE THAT THE LAUGHTER IS NOT ME POKING FUN OR ENJOYING THE MOMENT.
YOU'RE USING THE LAUGHTER AS CATHARSIS.
YOU'RE USING THE LAUGHTER AS A RELEASE VALVE.
THAT'S WHAT LAUGHTER IS.
THAT'S WHAT COMEDY IS, YOU KNOW.
PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK ME, HOW CAN YOU LAUGH AT A TIME LIKE THIS?
LOOK, I GREW UP IN A PLACE WHERE NELSON MANDELA WAS IN PRISON FOR 27 YEARS.
AND NOT ONLY WAS HE TELLING JOKES IN PRISON, HE WAS LAUGHING WHEN HE CAME OUT OF PRISON.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THE 27 YEARS WAS EASY.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE WASN'T ANGRY AND HE WASN'T TRYING TO EFFECT CHANGE, BUT IT ALSO MEANT YOU CAN'T REMOVE THAT FROM YOURSELF.
YOU CANNOT FORGET HOW TO LAUGH BECAUSE ONCE YOU FORGET THAT, YOU ONLY REMEMBER HOW TO CRY, AND SO THAT'S WHAT YOU DO.
IN TERMS OF RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S THE HONESTY OF THE SITUATION.
SOMETIMES THERE ARE SITUATIONS THAT ARE LUDICROUS, YOU KNOW.
HOW DOES A NATION AND A WORLD RALLY AROUND THE SHOOTING OF A GORILLA AND THE ZOO CHANGES ITS WHOLE STRUCTURE AND SAYS WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS GORILLA, YET WITH ACTUAL PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING SHOT IN THE STREETS, PEOPLE ARE GOING, OH, WELL, WHAT DID THEY DO WRONG, AND MAYBE IT'S THE WAY THEY CARRIED THEMSELVES.
THAT IS THE WORLD WE'RE LIVING IN, AND THAT FOR ME IS LUDICROUS.
IT'S SO CRAZY THAT YOU HAVE TO LAUGH AT IT.
>> SO YOU CAME HERE NOT NECESSARILY INTENDING TO BE JUST ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS, BUT THIS OBVIOUSLY CAMPAIGN HAS CAPTIVATED EVERYTHING.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO AFTER THE ELECTION?
>> I THINK I'M DEFINITELY INTENDING TO SPREAD THE SCOPE OF THE DAILY SHOW.
WE NEED TO LOOK TO THE WORLD.
A LOT OF THE TIME THE WORLD CAN GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS YOU NEED.
BREXIT IS ONE OF THOSE.
IF PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT BREXIT -- AND EVEN NOW IF YOU LOOK AT THE RAMIFICATIONS OF BREXIT, IT CAN TELL YOU A LOT ABOUT WHAT MAY HAPPEN IN THE U.S. YOU HAVE PEOPLE AFTER BREXIT GOING I DON'T KNOW WHY I VOTED.
I THOUGHT WE WERE VOTING FOR THE IMMIGRANTS TO LEAVE AND WE WANTED MORE JOBS, AND NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE NOT GETTING THAT MONEY AND I REALLY REGRET MY DECISION.
LIKE, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
YOU WERE ILL-INFORMED.
YOU WERE MISINFORMED AND NOW YOUR DECISION IS GOING TO IMPACT YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
I FEEL LIKE BY LOOKING AT THE WORLD YOU CAN LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF.
>> FANTASTIC.
TREVOR NOAH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>>> FINALLY FOR US, FROM SHAPING THE RULES OF POLITICS TO THE MAN WHO CHANGED THE RULES OF COMEDY.
AFTER A PROLIFIC CAREER FILLED WITH LAUGHTER, NINE EMMY NOMINATIONS AND MULTIPLE TV APPEARANCES, BOB NEWHART WHO GRACED SO MANY OF OUR TELEVISION SCREENS GROWING UP HAS PASSED AWAY AT THE AGE OF 94.
BELOVED FOR HIS STAMMERING DEAD PANNED HUMOR, WHICH SHOT HIM TO STARDOM IN THE 1960s, HIS PHONE CALL SKETCHES PLAYING A REASONABLE MAN DEALING WITH ABSURD REQUESTS MARKED HIS FLAVOR OF COMEDY.
>> YOU FOUND A SHELL ON THE BEACH?
YOU THINK THAT'S UNUSUAL.
FINDING A SHELL ON THE BEACH?
[ LAUGHTER ] IT ISN'T THAT KIND OF SHELL.
WHAT'S THE MATTER?
DOESN'T IT SOUND LIKE THE OCEAN WHEN YOU HOLD IT UP TO YOUR EAR?
OH, THAT KIND OF SHELL.
>> THE FORMER ACCOUNTANT TURNED COMEDIAN, HE'S BEEN KNOWN FOR THE BOB NEWHART SHOW IN THE '70s.
LATER APPEARANCES IN THE BIG BANG THEORY AND MOVIES LIKE ELF IMMORTALIZED HIS PLACE IN POP CULTURE.
HE WILL BE SORELY MISSED AMONG MANY GENERATIONS.
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