July 23, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING ON.

>> WE HAVE WORK TO DO.

WE HAVE DOORS TO KNOCK ON.

WE HAVE PEOPLE IT TALK TO.

WE HAVE PHONE CALLS TO MAKE, AND WE HAVE AN LECH TO WIN.

>> AS DEMOCRATIC DELEGATES FLOOD KAMALA HARRIS WITH SUPPORT WE LOOK TO THE RACE AHEAD AND THE ISSUES THE V.P.

MAY FACE WITH CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN, THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO REACH THE SENATE.

THEN, NETANYAHU'S VISIT TO THE U.S. COULD BE CRUCIAL TO A CEASEFIRE DEAL, BUT DOES HE WANT ONE?

WE GET THE LATEST AND TRYING TO END AN ENDLESS WAR.

PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI PEACE ACTIVIST AZIZ ABU SARAH AND MAOZ INONJOIN ME TO DISCUSS THEIR EFFORTS TO END THE VIOLENCE DESPITE HORRIFIC PERSONAL LOSS.

ALSO AHEAD -- >> THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING CHRISTIAN SUPPORT IN THIS COUNTRY FOR DONALD TRUMP, THEY THINK HE WILL FIGHT FOR THEM AND HE WILL GIVE POWER TO THEM.

>> HISTORIAN KRISTIN KOBES DID YOU MEZ TELLS HOW WHITE EVANGELICALS HAVE CORRUPTED A FAITH AND FRACTURED A NATION.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO PROGRAM.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

IT'S ALL COMING UP, KAMALA HARRIS.

JUST TWO DAYS AFTER PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCED HE WAS DROPPING OUT OF THE RACE, THE V.P.

HAS BEEN FLOODED WITH DELEGATE SUPPORT, ALL BUT GUARANTEEING SHE'LL BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

SHE'S AMASSED A RECORD BREAKING $81 MILLION.

HARRIS LAID OUT HER VISION AND DID NOT HESITATE TO SET UP THE NEW PARADIGM IN THIS ELECTION, THE PROSECUTOR VERSUS THE CONVICTED FELON.

>> AS A COURTROOM PROSECUTOR, IN THOSE ROLES I TOOK ON PERPETRATORS OF ALL KINDS.

PREDATORS WHO ABUSED WOMEN, FRAUDSTERS WHO RIPPED OFF CONSUMERS, CHEATERS WHO BROKE THE RULES FOR THEIR OWN GAIN.

SO HEAR ME WHEN I SAY I KNOW DONALD TRUMP'S TYPE.

[ CHEERING ] >> THE GOP ISN'T WASTING ANY TIME EITHER LINING UP ATTACK ADS AGAINST THE VICE PRESIDENT AND SOME BELIEVE THAT CAMPAIGN COULD TAKE AN UGLY TURN.

PROMINENT DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRA OCASIO CORTEZ SAYS PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO BRACE THEMSELVES FROM MISOGYNISTIC AND POTENTIALLY RACIST ATTACKS.

JOINING ME IS A TRAILBLAZER WHO HAS HAD TO WALK A SIMILAR PATH.

CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN IS THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO JOIN THE SENATE IN 1992 WHENNY ELECTED BY THE STATE OF ILLINOIS.

AS THE DEMOCRATS PICK THEIR NEW NOMINEE AND SHE JOINS ME FROM CHICAGO.

CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

A LOT OF ATTENTION WILL FOCUS ON THE CITY YOU'RE IN IN JUST A FEW WEEKS, BUT LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR REACTION IN JUST THE PAST FEW DAYS AND THAT IS PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN REALLY PASSING THE TORCH TO HIS VICE PRESIDENT TO CARRY ON THE NOMINATION FOR DEMOCRATIC -- THE ELECTION THIS YEAR AS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

>> WELL FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I'M A GREAT FAN OF CHRISTIANE'S.

I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE, AND I AM GLAD I'M HERE TO SAY TO YOU THAT I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVENTION.

I HOPE IT WILL BE CALM OR AS CALM AS IT CAN BE AND CHICAGO HAS BEEN THE SITE OF CONVENTIONS BEFORE AND THEY HAVE BEEN CRAZY.

SO RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS A FUNNY KIND OF CHAOS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BUT I'M REMINDED THAT OLD WILL ROGERS WHO SAID I DON'T BELONG TO AN ORGANIZED GROUP, I'M A DEMOCRAT.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS DEMOCRATS HAVE COME TOGETHER BEHIND KAMALA HARRIS.

I SUPPORT HER WHOLEHEARTEDLY, AND SHE'S GOT THE RECORD AND SHE'S GOT THE CONFIDENCE, SHE'S GOT THE CREDENTIALS AND SHE ABSOLUTELY CAN DO THIS, BEAT DONALD, AND WE HAVE TO BRACE OURSELVES BECAUSE IT WILL BE AN UGLY CAMPAIGN.

IT ALWAYS IS, BUT I THINK SHE CAN RISE ABOVE IT AND SHE CAN WIN AND WE'LL HAVE SOMEONE IN THE MOLD OF JOE BIDEN WHO HAS SERVED HIS COUNTRY NOBLY AND ABLY FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS, AT LEAST.

>> WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM CONSTITUENTS AS YOU SEE THERE, PICTURES OF HER IN WISCONSIN, A BATTLEGROUND STATE AS SHE'S THERE WITH SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN.

NOTABLY, PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS THERE TWO WEEKS AGO CAMPAIGNING AND SENATOR BALDWIN WAS ABOUT 170 MILES AWAY AT A SEPARATE EVENT.

WHAT DOES THAT SIGNAL TO YOU ABOUT PARTY UNITY AROUND KAMALA HARRIS' CANDIDACY.

>> I THINK IT IS TO BE CELEBRATED.

I THINK IT IS A WONDERFUL THING.

THE FACT IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS COME TOGETHER, ALL OF THE FACTIONS OF IT HAVE COME TOGETHER BEHIND VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND I THINK IF WE HAVE THE UNITY WE CAN WIN THIS ELECTION.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE BECAUSE ELECTIONS ARE ALWAYS LIKE ROLLER BALL, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

FOR ALL OF THE POLLING AND EVERYTHING ELSE, WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL ELECTION DAY WHEN THE ACTUAL POLLS THAT MATTERS, E.G., THE VOTE, TAKES PLACE.

>> IT'S ALL, BUT ASSUMED SHE WILL BE THE NOMINEE JUST GIVEN THE RUSH OF SUPPORT AND THE DELEGATES SHE'S AMASSED.

THE BETTER PATH FOR HER OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO BASICALLY HAVE AN OPEN PRIMARY AND TO LET HER PROVE HERSELF AND GET HER EXPERIENCE ONCE AGAIN DEBATING.

>> THAT'S NONSENSE.

THAT'S NEGATIVISM, OKAY?

THAT IS CALLED HOW DO YOU SPLIT THIS PARTY OPEN?

WE COME TOGETHER AROUND OUR PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE AND IT IS JUST BAD.

I'M BEHIND SENATOR HARRIS FOREVER -- MY MINDSET.

>> SENATOR, VICE PRESIDENT AND THEN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

>> I WOULD FOLLOW JOE BIDEN TO THE GATES OF HELL JUST SO YOU KNOW, BUT NOW THAT HE'S PASSED THE TORCH TO KAMALA HARRIS, I'M WITH HER 1,000%, AND I AM GOING TO STICK WITH HER, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT DEMOCRATS, NOT JUST DEMOCRATS, BUT VOTERS, PERIOD, UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE THE MOST QUALIFIED, THE MOST PRUDENTIAL CANDIDATE PERSON TO DO THIS JOB, AND I THINK SHE WILL MAKE US ALL HAPPY.

>> IN TERMS OF HER MESSAGING, IT IS GOING TO BE RATHER CHALLENGING IN THE SENSE THAT SHE'S STILL ATTACHED TO THE BIDEN/HARRIS ADMINISTRATION AND HER POLICIES AND HER VIEWS ARE LIKELY IN SYNC WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, BUT SHE IS A DIFFERENT PERSON.

SHE HAS HER OWN PATH.

SHE HAS HER OWN RECORD.

SHE HAS HER OWN STRENGTHS.

WHAT WE LEARNED YESTERDAY FROM HER APPEARS TO BE A PREVIEW OF WHAT WE CAN EXPECT TO SEE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND THAT IS REALLY HONING IN ON HER ROLE AS A PROSECUTOR AND AS SHE SAID YESTERDAY GOING AFTER SOMEBODY SHE'S VERY FAMILIAR WITH, THE TYPE, ANY THAT IS A CONVICTED FELON.

>> THE FACT IS THERE WAS A JURY THAT CONVICTED HIM.

34 COUNTS.

SO HE IS A CONVICTED FELON, AND THEY CAN'T -- THEY CAN'T WISH THAT AWAY OR OBFUSCATE THE CONVERSATION AWAY.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL TRY TO DO.

THEY'LL TRY TO DEFLECT CONVERSATION SO IT'S NOT BASED ON WHAT HE'S DONE, BUT RATHER WHAT HE, QUOTE, STANDS FOR AND WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE IN THIS FANTASY WORLD THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO CREATE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

I THINK IT'S TERRIBLE.

LET'S STICK TO THE FACTS AND LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT IS, AND I THINK WE DO THAT, KAMALA HARRIS WINS.

>> AND JOE BIDEN YESTERDAY, WE HEARD FROM HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE HIS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE WILL NO LONGER BE THE NOMINEE.

I WANT TO PLAY SOUND FROM HIM YESTERDAY IN DELAWARE AS HE CALLED IN TO KAMALA HARRIS, ADDRESSING THE CAMPAIGN AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID ABOUT WHAT THIS NEXT CHAPTER MEANS AND WILL LOOK LIKE.

>> SO LET ME BE REALLY CLEAR.

WE ARE STILL FIGHTING IN THIS FIGHT TOGETHER.

I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE, AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW YOU'VE ALWAYS HAD MY BACK, AND I PROMISE YOU I WILL ALWAYS HAVE YOUR BACK, AND I AM ANXIOUS FOR ALL OF YOU TO HEAR FROM KAMALA.

>> WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR MORE FROM THE PRESIDENT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

HE ALSO SAID THAT THE NAME AT THE TOP MAY HAVE CHANGED, BUT THE VISION, THE GOAL HAS NOT.

GIVEN WHERE THE POLL NUMBERS ARE NOW, I'M WONDERING FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT, I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT JOE BIDEN AND WHAT HE'S ACCOMPLISHED ON THIS ADMINISTRATION.

FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT DO YOU THINK IT IS WISE FOR HIM TO BE ALIGNED WITH HER CLOSELY THROUGHOUT THIS CAMPAIGN?

>> WELL, TO BEGIN WITH, YOU'RE RIGHT.

JOE BIDEN HAS DONE A YEOMAN'S JOB AS PRESIDENT.

HE'S DELIVERED ON EVERYTHING HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN ONLY BE PROUD OF HIS RECORD, AND I THINK NOT JUST IN AMERICA, BUT IN THE WORLD.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT SHE IS COMING IN AS HIS -- HIS WINGMAN.

SHE'S BEEN WITH THE PRESIDENT.

SHE'S SUPPORTED HIM ALL THE WAY, AND SHE'S DONE EVERYTHING HE WANTED HER TO DO, AND SHE'S DONE WELL.

SO I THINK WE CAN'T BURY THE FACTS AND CAN'T BURY THE RECORD OF WHAT PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY DONE AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THEY SAID.

BOTH OF THEM HAVE DELIVERED.

THEY'VE DONE WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO AND THEY'VE DONE IT SO THEY CAN STAND UP AND BE PROUD OF THE FACT THEY KEPT THEIR PROMISES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, PROMISES MADE AND PROMISES KEPT AS THEY USED TO SAY.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT IS.

I THINK SHE HAS A WAY OF -- SHE'S GOT A PATH FORWARD IN TERMS OF DESCRIBING HER OWN VISION WHICH IS REALLY BASED ON THE RECORD IS NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM JOE BIDEN'S WHICH IS WHY JOE, NO DOUBT, SELECTED HER AND WHY HE ENDORSED HER FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> WE ARE GETTING A SENSE OF HOW THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WILL BE ADDRESSING THIS NEW RIVALRY AND THAT IS CALLING HER A DANGEROUS LIBERAL, GOING FROM THE BIDEN INFLATION CHARACTERIZATION TO THE HARRIS INFLATION LABEL.

THAT MAY BE FAIR GAME, BUT THERE'S ALSO CONCERN AND WE GOT A TASTE OF IT YESTERDAY, GETTING PERSONAL, PERHAPS DELVING INTO RACISM, MISOGYNY.

LET ME PLAY A CLIP FOR YOU FROM TIM -- THIS WAS A CONGRESSMAN THAT WAS SPEAKING WITH MANU RAJU, TIM BURCHET OF 10 TEN AND HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

>> BIDEN SAID FIRST OFF HE SAID HE WOULD HIRE A BLACK FEMALE FOR VICE PRESIDENT AND HE JUST SKIPPED OVER -- WHAT ABOUT WHITE FEMALES?

WHAT ABOUT ANY OTHER GROUP?

IT JUST -- WHEN YOU GO DOWN THAT ROUTE YOU TAKE MEDIOCRITIY AND THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW AS THE VICE PRESIDENT.

>> ARE YOU SUGGESTING SHE WAS A DEI HIRE?

>> 100 HIRE.

SHE WAS A DEI HIRE.

>> LET ME PLAY ANOTHER SOUNDBITE FOR YOU, ANOTHER MORE SUBTLE ATTACK LINE AND THAT IS FROM DONALD TRUMP'S VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND NOMINEE AND THAT IS J.D.

VANCE.

>> WHEN I SEE HER GIVE A SPEECH AND SHE TALKS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY, NOT WITH APPRECIATION, BUT WITH CONDEMNATION, IF YOU WANT TO LEAD THIS COUNTRY YOU SHOULD FEEL GRATEFUL FOR IT.

YOU SHOULD FEEL A SENSE OF GRATITUDE, AND I NEVER HEAR THAT GRATITUDE COME THROUGH WHEN I LISTEN TO KAMALA HARRIS.

>> OF COURSE, THAT REMINDS MANY PEOPLE OF SOME OF THE CRITICISM THAT MICHELLE OBAMA RECEIVED IN 2008.

YOU'VE CREATED A TERM FOR THIS, MISS OJ NICHL AND THAT IS A COMBINATION OF MISOGYNY AND RACISM.

WHAT MORE DO YOU THINK KAMALA HARRIS SHOULD BE EXPECTING THROWN AT HER OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE HER ON THIS FRONT, SPECIFICALLY?

>> EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK.

THEY'LL BE COMING TO HER BOTH BECAUSE OF GENDER AS WELL AS BECAUSE OF RACE AND AS WELL AS THEY'LL PICK -- THEY'RE ALREADY ATTACKING HER SMILE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ATTACK SOMEBODY'S SMILE.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THEY'LL COME AT HER WITH EVERYTHING, AND SHE, I BELIEVE, I DON'T WANT TO RESPOND TO EITHER ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE YOU HAD QUOTED BECAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T TAKE ON EVERY IDIOT ON THE PLANET.

SO I'M HAPPY TO LET THEM GO WITH WHAT THEY HAD TO SAY, BUT THE FACT IS THAT KAMALA CAN EXPECT A MIXTURE, AND I DIDN'T CREATE THE WORD.

THE WORD HAS BEEN AROUND BEFORE ME AND IT'S A MIXTURE OF RACISM AND SEXISM, AND I HAVE TO SAY THIS TO YOU AND YOUR AUDIENCE AND THAT IS THAT SEXISM, TRUMP'S RACISM ALL OF THE TIME.

SEXISM IS NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY YOU GO TO, AND I'VE BEEN AROUND THE WORLD, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT I CAN'T THINK OF A SOCIETY THAT HAS EMPOWERED WOMEN TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY DESERVE TO BE EMPOWERED.

WE ARE HALF THE POPULATION, WE DON'T HAVE HALF OF ANYTHING IN TERMS OF POSITIONS OF POWER, IN TERMS OF MONEY, IN TERMS OF INFLU HAPPENS.

WHY IS THAT SO?

>> ALL IMPORTANT ISSUES.

I'M SORRY, WE ARE PRESSED FOR TIME AND WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU BACK, IF NOT ONLY ONLY TALK ABOUT THIS, AND I AM SO SORRY FOR THE EARPIECE YOU'VE HAD.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> MEANTIME IN WASHINGTON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER BEN JAM INNETANYAHU IS IN TOWN AND HIS MEETINGS WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN AND VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HAVE BEEN POSTPONED AND THEY'LL BE BOY COTTED BY MULTIPLE LAWMAKERS.

TODAY THE U.N. IS CONDEMNING WHAT IT IS CALLING A CONFUSING EVACUATION ORDER FROM THE CITY OF KHAN YUNIS.

NEARLY 100 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED AND THOUSANDS OF OTHERS HAVE BEEN FORCED TO FLEE AS THE IDF OPERATION AROUND THE CITY ENTERS A SECOND DAY.

CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND JOINS ME NOW FROM TEL AVIV.

BEFORE WE GET TO THE PRIME MINISTER'S VISIT, TELL US MORE ABOUT THIS OPERATION INTO KHAN YUNIS, THE RISING DEATH TOLL AND WHERE THESE CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN FORCED TO GO.

>> WELL, BIANNA, THE PALESTINIAN MINISTRY OF HEALTH SAYS NEARLY A HUNDRED PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED, HUNDREDS MORE INJURED IN ISRAELI MILITARY OPERATIONS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS IN EASTERN KHAN YUNIS AND MANY MORE, THEY BELIEVE, ARE FEARED TO BE TRAPPED UNDER THE RUBBLE.

MOST OF THEM DEAD, MORE LIKELY THAN NOT.

THIS ISRAELI MILITARY OFFENSIVE HAPPENED AS THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS THAT HAMAS MILITANTS HAD BEGUN TO USE PART OF THIS AREA OF EASTERN KHAN YUNIS WHICH WAS PART OF THIS EXPANDED HUMANITARIAN ZONE OF AL MA WASY TO FIRE ROCKETS ON ISRAEL AND TO BEGIN REGROUPING, AND SO THEY EFFECTIVELY TIGHTENED THAT HUMANITARIAN ZONE AND ISSUED EVACUATION ORDERS FOR THAT VERY SAME AREA, BUT THE UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS OFFICE SAYS THAT THOSE EVACUATION ORDERS WERE CONFUSING, LEAVING PEOPLE WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT EXACTLY WHERE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO EVACUATE FROM AND WHERE THEY SHOULD GO TO AND WHAT ROUTES THEY SHOULD TAKE AND ALSO THE FACT THAT THESE EVACUATION ORDERS WERE ISSUED AT THE VERY SAME TIME AS ISRAEL WAS INTENSIFYING OPERATIONS IN THE AREA AND THAT MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO DEATH TOLL THAT WE ARE WATCHING.

IT POINTS TO A BIGGER QUESTION HERE.

NOT ONLY ARE NEWSES OF PALESTINIANS ONCE AGAIN BEING FORCED TO FLEE, DISPLACED TO OTHER PARTS OF GAZA, MANY OF THEM FOR THE SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH, FIFTH TIME HERE AND IT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT ISRAEL'S LONG-TERM STRATEGY IN GAZA AS WE'VE WATCHED THEM PLAY THIS CONSTANT GAME OF WHACK-A-MOLE AS THEY LEAVE AN AREA THAT THEY'VE BEEN LIVING IN INTENSELY FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS AND ONCE AGAIN HAVING TO RETURN AS HAMAS REGROUPS.

>> AND THE DYNAMIC IN THE U.S. HAS QUICKLY SHIFTED OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS AND THIS SPEECH BY PRIME MINISTERETTE NETANYAHU HAD BEEN PLANNED A FEW MONTHS AGO, AND WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO IS A LAME DUCK UNTIL JANUARY, AND WE HAVE WHAT APPEARS TO BE A NOMINEE, ALL, BUT CONFIRMED KAMALA HARRIS WHO IS A WELL KNOWN QUANTITY AND EVEN PRIME MINISTER IN HIS CABINET.

THEY ARE NOT EXPECTING TO MEET ON THURSDAY, BUT WHAT WILL YOU BE WATCHING BETWEEN HARRIS AND THE PRIME MINISTER?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE VICE PRESIDENT HANDLES THIS ISSUE OF THE WAR IN GAZA, OF SUPPORT IN ISRAEL.

I MEAN, BY AND LARGE SHE HAS STOOD BY THE PRESIDENT'S SIDE THROUGH MANY OF HIS POLICIES ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHERE SHE HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT QUICKER TO BE IN TUNE TO THE SUFFERING OF THE PALESTINIANS IN GAZA.

SHE MADE A CALL TO THE CEASEFIRE IN MARCH WHICH HAD MORE URGENCY THAN WHAT WE WERE HEARING FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE WHITE HOUSE AT THE TIME.

SHE'LL HAVE TO CONFRONT THIS ISSUE ELECTORALLY, AS WELL.

WE KNOW THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS FACING HUGE ISSUES WITH HIS PROGRESSIVE BASE BECAUSE OF HIS OVERARCHING SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL, HIS SUPPLYING OF WEAPONS TO ISRAEL AS IT BATTLES HAMAS IN GAZA, SO HARRIS IS GOING TO BE TIED TO MANY OF THOSE POLICIES, BUT SHE ALSO HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND DISTINGUISH HERSELF.

IT'S NOTABLE THAT SHE CHOSE, ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS BEFORE BIDEN DROP OUT SHE CHOSE NOT TO PRESIDE OVER NETANYAHU'S SPEECH TO CONGRESS.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DYNAMIC THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GOOD FOR HEAR WITH HER BASE AND WHAT EMERGES WATT PUBLIC AND THIS COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PRIME MINISTER WITH WHO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

NETANYAHU WILL SEE HOW TRUMP FEELS ABOUT THINGS.

IT IS NOT CLEAR YET ABOUT WHETHER HE WILL MEET WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT, BUT WE KNOW THAT NETANYAHU IS AN AVID AND VERY KEEN OBSERVER OF U.S.

POLITICS, AND AS HE MULLS THIS ISSUE OF A POTENTIAL CEASEFIRE DEAL, WHETHER OR NOT TO TAKE THAT LEAP, HE WILL CERTAINLY BE LOOKING TO SEE WHAT HIS OPTIONS WILL BE AFTER THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS AND HOW THAT MIGHT IMPACT THE FUTURE OF U.S. POLICY TOWARDS ISRAEL.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN OBVIOUSLY COMMITTED AS HE SAID A NUMBER OF TIMES TO SPEND AS MANY MONTHS AHEAD AND NOW WE KNOW THAT THIS WILL BE THE REMAINDER OF HIS ADMINISTRATION, SEEKING AN END TO THE WAR AND TO THE HOSTAGES AND THEY MET WITH THE FAMILIES OF THE HOSTAGES IN WASHINGTON, D.C. A FEW HAVE ACCOMPANIED HIM TO WASHINGTON, AND AS YOU KNOW BETTER THAN MOST, JEREMY, THAT THE PRESSURE IS ON THIS PRIME MINISTER AND NOT WITH THOSE A GRAUD BROUGHT, PRIORITIZE THIS WAR AND THE HOSTAGES AS TO WHAT MANY OF YOU MAY BE HIS ULTIMATE PRIORITY IS TO KEEP IT.

JEREMY DIAMOND, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HAS MET WITH THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THOSE WHO ARE HELD HOSTAGE IN GAZA.

FOR PALESTINIANS INSIDE GAZA THE WAR CONTINUES TO DESTROY ENTIRE FAMILIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS.

THINGS HAVE OFTEN FELT HELPLESS IN THE REGION ESPECIALLY SINCE OCTOBER 7th, BUT SOME RARE VOICES CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR PEACE AND COEXISTENCE EVEN IN THE FACE OF INTENSE GRIEF LIKE MY NEXT GUEST.

AZIZ ABU SARAH WHOSE BROTHER WAS ARRESTED WHEN ASSIS WAS 9 YEARS OLD AND WHO DIED SHORTLY AFTER FROM WHEN HE WAS RELEASED A YEAR LATER FROM WHAT HIS FAMILY SAY WERE INJURIES FROM BEING TORTURED IN PRISON AND MAOZ INON WHOSE PARENTS WERE MURDERED ON OCTOBER 7th.

HE TOOK PART IN A PEACE CONFERENCE IN TEL AVIV AND THEY ARE NOW IN D.C. TO SPREAD THAT MESSAGE AS NETANYAHU PREPARES TO ADDRESS CONGRESS.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

I WATCHED THE TED TALK BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU AND PART OF ME WISHES WE COULD PLAY THAT OR HAVE THE TWO OF YOU SPEAK TO EACH OTHER AS BEAUTIFULLY, AS AFFECTIONATELY, AS HUMANELY AS YOU DID VERSUS HAVING ME AS A MIDDLE MAN HERE, BUT HERE YOU ARE.

IT WAS REALLY A BEAUTIFUL MOMENT, AND I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GO WATCH THAT TED TALK, BUT DO I WANT TO BEGIN WITH YOU, AZIZ, AND TALK TO US MORE ABOUT HOW YOU TWO CAME TOGETHER.

I TAKE IT YOU DIDN'T KNOW EACH OTHER BEFORE OCTOBER 7th.

AZIZ, YOU REACHED OUT TO MAOZ TO OFFER YOUR CONDOLENCES AND THUS THIS BEAUTIFUL RELATIONSHIP BEGAN.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA.

YES, YOU ARE RIGHT.

I ONLY WANT TO SAY I HOPE WE ARE NOT AS RARE AS PEOPLE THINK WE ARE.

WE REPRESENT A BIGGER NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE US.

ON OCTOBER 7th I HEARD ABOUT MAOZ'S PARENTS.

WE MET MAYBE ONCE BEFORE BECAUSE WE BOTH WORK IN THE SAME INDUSTRY.

WE ARE ENTREPRENEURS, AND I DECIDED TO REACH OUT.

I SENT HIM A MESSAGE.

I TOLD HIM THAT I FEEL HIS PAIN.

I TOLD HIM, YOU KNOW, MY BROTHER WAS KILLED SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S GOING THROUGH, AND THAT I'M STANDING WITH HIM IN THAT MOMENT.

I THINK EMPATHY IS SOMETHING THAT ALL OF US CAN AFFORD.

I JUST WANTED TO TELL HIM THAT HE'S NOT ALONE AND THAT I CARE AND LOVE HIM AND SURPRISINGLY, HE RESPONDED.

A FEW DAYS LATER WE TALKED AND THEN WE'VE BEEN ON THIS JOURNEY EVER SINCE TRYING TO SPEAK TO OUR PEOPLE, TRYING TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE HERE IN THE U.S., EVERYWHERE PEOPLE WILLING TO LISTEN AND SAY, LOOK, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT.

I REMEMBER WHEN MAOZ THE FIRST TIME I REACHED OUT TO HIM SAYING I AM NOT ONLY CRYING FOR MY PARENTS.

I AM ALSO CRYING FOR THE CHILDREN IN GAZA AND FEELING THAT EMPATHY FROM HIM AND SAYING EVERYONE ELSE CAN HAVE THAT KIND OF EMPATHY, CAN HAVE THAT KIND OF CARE AND WE HERE MODEL THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP AND THAT KIND OF FUTURE.

>> I JUST HAVE TO SAY I AM SO SORRY, AZIZ, FOR THE LOSS YOUR BROTHER AND MAOZ, I AM SO SORRY FOR THE LOSS OF YOUR BELOVED PARENTS ON OCTOBER 7th.

IT WAS THE WORST DAY IN ISRAELI HISTORY AND TO HAVE THE POWER AS AZIZ JUST NOTED AND THE WHEREWITHAL IN THAT MOMENT, YOUR DARKEST DAY, I WOULD IMAGINE, THE LOSS OF YOUR PARENTS, AND I HOPE YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THEM, BUT TO THEN FOLLOW THAT BY SAYING THAT THEIR DEATH SHOULD NOT BE REVENGE BY THE DEATH OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN GAZA, AS WELL.

THAT IS NOT A COMMON RESPONSE WE HEAR OR WOULD EVEN EXPECT TO HEAR FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS SUFFERED AN UNIMAGINABLE LOSS LIKE YOU HAVE.

>> SO, FIRST, THANK YOU, BIANNA, FOR HAVING US ON YOUR SHOW.

IT'S NOT -- WE ARE NOT VOICES.

WE ARE REPRESENTATIVES OF A BIGGER AND GROWING MOVEMENT OF BOTH PALESTINIAN-ISRAELIS.

HE HAS BEEN WORKING FOR MANY YEARS WITH THE FAMILY CIRCLE COMMITTED FOR PEACE AND THERE ARE MANY OF THE NEWLY BEREAVED FAMILIES FROM OCTOBER 7th THAT HAVE NOW CHANGED THEIR LIFE AND NOW WE ARE ADVOCATING AND WORKING TO MAKE PEACE AND IF THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT I I WOULD BE ABLE TO SHARE IN D.C. ON YOUR SHOW IS THAT PEACE IS POSSIBLE.

PEACE IS POSSIBLE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW AND THIS IS WHAT I LOST BOTH PARENTS AND MANY OF MY CHILDHOOD FRIENDS AND THE CHILDREN THAT WERE HERE AND I WON A BROTHER.

A BROTHER AND A PARTNER, AZIZ ABU SARAH, AND PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI PEACEMAKERS AND INTERNATIONAL SUPPORTERS THAT TOGETHER WE HAVE DECIDED TO ACHIEVE WHAT'S BEEN ACHIEVED IN MANY OTHER REGIONS IN THE WORLD AND IT WAS ACHIEVED BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT AND IT WAS ACHIEVED BETWEEN ISRAEL AND JORDAN AND THE TUTSI IN RWANDA AND NOW IT'S TIME TO ACHIEVE IT BETWEEN THE RIVER AND THE SEA BETWEEN PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELIS, AND I'VE BEEN AN ENTREPRENEUR AND A BUSINESSMAN FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, AND I KNOW THE BIGGER THE CRISIS ALSO THE BIGGER THE OPPORTUNITY AND THIS IS WHAT WE CAME HERE TO D.C., TO BROAD AND STRENGTH OUR COALITION, OUR MOVEMENT AND TO GET MORE SUPPORT.

WE NEED OUR VOICES TO BE AMPLIFIED AND WE NEED TO BUILD OUR LEGITIMACY AND WE NEED POLICY CHANGE FROM TOOLS OF DISTRACTIONS TO TOOLS OF CONSTRUCTION, AND THERE WILL BE NO SECURITY AND SAFETY TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.

TO MY COMMUNITY AND FROM GAZA MAYBE FIVE KILOMETERS TO KHAN YUNIS, THERE WILL BE NO SECURITY AND SAFETY TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL IF THERE WILL BE NO SECURITY AND SAFETY TO THE PEOPLE IN GAZA, TO THE PEOPLE IN THE WEST BANK.

NOW IT'S TIME TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

>> AZIZ, THAT'S THE DIFFICULT PART TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, AND I'VE HEARD THE SAME THING FROM BOTH OF YOU AND THAT IS THAT YOU'RE REPRESENTING WHAT APPEARS IN YOUR DESCRIPTION TO BE NOT JUST A FEW VOICES, BUT MANY, PERHAPS A SILENT GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT WHAT YOU'RE DOING, WHO ARE ONBOARD WITH YOUR MESSAGE, AND I'M WONDERING HOW YOU SQUARE THAT WITH THE POLLING THAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THOSE INSIDE GAZA, INSIDE THE WEST BANK AND INSIDE ISRAEL IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE, YES, ON THE ONE HAND THERE IS POLLING THAT SHOWS THAT ISRAELIS WANT NEW LEADERSHIP.

THEY DO NOT WANT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU TO CONTINUE TO BE THEIR PRIME MINISTER, BUT THAT DOESN'T SUGGEST THAT THE COUNTRY IS TURNING FURTHER LEFT.

THE COUNTRY HAS SHIFTED MORE TO THE RIGHT AND POLLING AMONG PALESTINIANS SUGGESTS SIMILAR TRAJECTORIES.

SO WHAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THAT?

>> I THINK IN TIMES PEOPLE ARE ANGRY, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I WAS ANGRY WHEN MY OTHER BRO WAS KILLED AND IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO OVERCOME THAT ANGER AND WE SHOULDN'T LOOK AT THE POLLS AND SIGH SAY THAT PEOPLE ARE -- I THINK IT'S EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE AND WE'VE SEEN IT THROUGH HISTORY.

THAT ANGER CAN BE USED TO FUEL A SOLUTION RATHER THAN LEAD TO MORE DESTRUCTION, BUT WHAT'S NEEDED TO DO THAT IS A VISION.

AS LONG AS WE DON'T HAVE A VISION, AS LONG AS WE DON'T HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE LANGUAGE OF BOMBS AND TO THE LANGUAGE OF REVENGE, AND TO THE LANGUAGE OF THERE'S NOBODY TO TALK TO, PEOPLE ASSUME THAT THE ONLY SOLUTION IS ACTUALLY TO HATE AND TO KILL AND TO REVENGE IT FROM THE OTHER SIDE.

SO THERE IS A WAY AND THE OTHER WAY IS SHOWING THAT IF WE CAN DO IT THEN NOBODY CAN ARGUE THAT THEY CAN'T.

WE HAVE THE MOST LEGITIMATE REASONS TO HATE EACH OTHER TO WANT TO KILL EACH OTHER AND YET WE CALL EACH OTHER BROTHER.

WE LOVE EACH OTHER AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SHOW.

IN ADDITION, I WOULD SAY THE MEETING WE JUST -- THAT WE JUST HAD ON JULY 1st, THE GATHERING OF THOUSANDS OF ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS IN TEL AVIV SHOWS THERE IS A MOVEMENT AND THERE IS A MOVEMENT OF BELIEVING THAT THIS CONTINUATION AND PROMISES THAT IF WE JUST KILL ONE MORE PERSON FROM THE OTHER SIDE THEY'LL MAKE US MORE SAFE, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK AND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

>> WE JUST NEED TO BE AMPLIFIED WHETHER IT'S ON THE MEDIA AND WHETHER IT'S LEGITIMIZING THOSE VOICES AND BUILDING COALITIONS AND WORKING TOGETHER.

THERE SAY LOT OF WORK WE HAVE TO DO, BUT WE ARE CREATING EVERY DAY AND WE ARE CREATING HOPE THROUGH OUR ACTIONS AND THAT'S THE WAY FORWARD, AND WE WILL SEE JUST LIKE IN 1973, WAS THERE A WAR BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL.

NOBODY BELIEVED FIVE YEARS LATER THAT WE HAD A PEACE AGREEMENT AND YET THERE WAS.

>> SO WE CAN'T BE IN DESANTIS PAUR -- WHAT DO WE DO?

ALTERNATIVE IS JUSTITY HIT AND KILLING.

>> MANY OF US DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DREAM, AND I'M WONDERING IF DREAMING IN REGARDS TO THIS ISSUE CAN ONLY BE ESTABLISHED ONCE THIS WAR COMES TO AN END AND THE HOSTILITIES IN GAZA COME TO AN END AND THE HOSTAGES COME HOME.

>> THERE IS A PHRASE IN THE JEWISH TALMUD THAT EEN IN WAR YOU MUST CALL FOR PEACE.

SO WE CANNOT WAIT FOR THE WAR TO END AND THOSE WHO THRIVE, AND THE EXTREMIST HAMAS AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, SO NOW IS THE TIME TO CALL AND CRY FOR PEACE, AND I AM SAYING WHEN THE ISRAELIS WERE WALKING IN THE DESERT TO THE PROMISELAND THEY WERE THIRSTY AND THEY CRIED FOR WATER AND NOW THE WAR HAS BEEN WEDGED FOR NEARLY TEN MONTHS AND I FROM DAY ONE, I AND WE ARE CRYING FOR PEACE.

THERE IS NO BETTER TIME TO CRY FOR PEACE THAN DURING WAR, AND OUR POLITICAL LEADERS, POLITICIANS AND THERE ARE NO LEADERS.

OUR POLITICIANS FROM BOTH SIDE, THE PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI, THEY LOST THEIR POLITICAL IMAGINATION AND THIS IS WHEN WE COME INTO THE PICTURE AND INTO THE FIELD AND WE START IMAGINING FOR THEM AND THE REGION AND WE NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE U.S. ADMINISTRATION AND THE SUPPORT OF THE WORLD LEADER LIKE POPE FRANCIS WHO A HOLY HOG AND IT WAS VERY POWERFUL, FOR IT WAS?

>> THE THE VERONA, JOURNALISTS KEPT ASKING US, IS PEACE POSSIBLE?

IS PEACE POSSIBLE?

BUT WE ANSWER THAT ONLY EIGHT YEARS AGO THE SECOND WORLD WAR WAS RAGING IN EUROPE AND ITALIANS WERE FIGHTING AGAINST AMERICANS AND AGAINST THE BRITISH AND NOW THEY ARE ALL GATHERING IN VERONA AND THEY'RE ALL GOING TO MEET BY THE END OF THIS WEEK IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES IN PARIS AND THEY'LL HAVE A HUGE DELEGATION OF OUTLETS AND SPORTSMEN THAT WILL PARTICIPATE IN THESE OLYMPIC GAMES, BUT IF IT WAS THINKING ABOUT IT AND TALKING ABOUT IT EIGHT YEARS AGO WE WOULD BE CALLED NAIVE, BUT NAIVE ARE THOSE THAT BELIEVE THAT BOMBS BRING SECURITY AND WAR WILL BRING SAFETY.

WE ARE THE VOICES OF WISDOM.

WE ARE THE VOICES OF LOGIC AND LIKE JORDAN WHICH -- JORDAN AND EGYPT ARE THE ONLY SECURE BORDERS THAT ISRAEL HAS AND JORDAN IS NOT ONLY SECURE.

JORDAN HELPED TO SUPPORT US TO STOP THE IRANIAN ATTACK, SO WE NEED TO BRING THIS LEGACY BACK.

THE LEGACY OF THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER YITZHAK RABIN TO REALIZE THAT THE ONLY WAY TO BRING SECURITY AND SAFETY IS THROUGH PEACE AGREEMENT, AND IT'S ABOUT TIME TO DO IT AGAIN.

?

AZIZ, I KNOW YOU'VE TRAVELED TO MANY PEOPLE WITHOUT SIMPLIFYING BASIC NEEDS OF HUMANITY, OF HUMAN KIND AND THEY'RE VERY REGULAR.

DO YOU NEED TO KNOW THE OTHER SIDE'S NARRATIVE TO START THROUGH THE PROCESS AND EVEN MEANS ASKING VERY DIFFICULT QUESTIONS.

>> I YOU WILL LOOK STARTED A COMPANY WHERE WE WOULD PUT TOGETHER SOMETIMES TOUR GRADES AND A CATHOLIC AND A PROTESTANT IN NORTHERN ISLAND AND A BLACK AND WHITE IN SOUTH AFRICA BECAUSE WE CAN'T ASSUME THAT THERE IS A SINGLE STORY.

ISRAEL AND PALESTINE WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT HOW WIDE OUR STORIES HAVE BECOME STARTING IN 1948 UNTIL TODAY OUR STORIES HAVE GOTTEN WIDER AND WIDER, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN DO IS ASK EACH OTHER QUESTIONS AND SOMETIMES THOSE QUESTIONS CAN BE PAINFUL.

I'VE SEEN MY DAD GET IN A PEACE CONFERENCE AND ASK PEOPLE, WHICH I SHOULDN'T HAVE INVITED HIM BECAUSE IT WAS A VERY HARD QUESTION TO ASK.

THE QUESTION IS, DID THE HOLOCAUST QUESTION?

IF YOU DON'T ASK THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL NEVER GET THE ANSWER AND HE WAS ABLE TO GO TO THE HOLOCAUST AND THE STORY.

WHAT HAPPENED IN 1948?

>> WHAT IS THE STORY?

WHAT IS THE PALESTINIAN?

IF WE DON'T ASK THE QUESTIONS THERE IS NO DIALECT AND NO UNDERSTAND, AND WE SEE IT TODAY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN GAZA AND ISRAEL, SO LITTLE.

I HAVE NOT HEARD THE DEVASTATION, AND I'VE NOT PERIOD WHO KNOW SO LITTLER WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th.

WE NEED TO START COMMUNICATING WITH EACH OTHER AND STOP ASSUMING THAT WE KNOW WHAT THE OTHER SIDE BELIEVES AND TALK TO THEM DIRECTLY AND ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.

>> IT'S AMAZING WHEN YOU DESCRIBE IT THAT WAY BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON.

IT'S INEXCUSABLE FOR AMERICANS TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN SUDAN OR GAZA OR UKRAINE, BUT THE FACT THAT SO MANY ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS ALIKE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING LITERALLY NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER MILES AWAY IS PROBLEMATIC THAT YOU ARE -- >> KABT SAY IT.

>> HOW BEAUTIFUL THE RELATIONSHIP IS BETWEEN THE TWOI OF YOU IS AND IT COMES AT A TIME WHEN YOU CAN COME TOGETHER AND UNITHEY LIKE YOU'RE DISPLAYING RIGHT NOW.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> WE HAVE SDOOT THE TO BE HEROES OF RRGZ AND PEACE.

>> BIAN A WHO DON'T BEFORE WE GET.

WE'D LIKE TO END EVERY CONVERSATION WITH A HUNG AND WE'D LIKE TO DO IT NOW UPON.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU BOEING.

.

ARE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS VERY SPECIAL CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> RETURNING NOW BACK TO THE U.S. WHERE THE POLITICAL BLUEPRINT FOR THE NEXT REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT PROJECT 2025 HAS DRAWN CRITICISM NOT ONLY FROM THE DEMOCRATS, BUT ALSO FROM DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF CALLING THE 900-PAGE DOCUMENT SERIOUSLY EXTREME.

YET THE CONTRIBUTORS OF THE CONSERVE OF IT PLAYBOOK IN.

HISTORIAN KRISTEN KOBES DU MEZ TALKS ABOUT THE IMPACT IT COULD HAVE ON AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

>> KRISTEN KOBES DU MEZ, THANK YOU FOR TALKING TO US WITNESS AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> I WANT TO FOCUS OUR CONVERSATION ON PROJECT 2025, BUT BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT I DO WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION.

ONE OF THE REASONS WE CALLED YOU IS THAT WE LAST SPOKE WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR 2020 BOOK "JESUS AND JOHN WAYNE."

YOU ARGUED THAT MODERN EVANGELICALISM HAS REPLACED THE JESUS OF THE GOSPELS WITH A MODEL OF RUGGED MASCULINITY AND CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM.

DID YOU SEE THAT PLAYING OUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE CONVENTION WEEK?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT REALLY IS THE VISION.

IT'S NOT A DEEP, THEOLOGICAL VISION.

IT'S A VISION FOR A CHRISTIAN AMERICA, AND I PUT THAT IN QUOTES.

CHRISTIAN AMERICA AND A VISION OF THE COUNTRY WHO SAYS THIS VISION OF THE COUNTRY BELONGS TO SOME PEOPLE, BUT NOT TO ALL PEOPLE.

IT'S A VISION OF AMERICA THAT DRAWS A STARK BOUNDARY BETWEEN REAL AMERICANS, THOSE WHO ARE ON GOD'S SIDE WHO ARE TRYING TO RESTORE CHRISTIAN AMERICA AND ENEMIES AND THREATS TO AMERICA, TO THIS VISION FOR CHRISTIAN AMERICA AND THAT IS A -- AN IDEOLOGY THAT RUNS THROUGH CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICALISM.

YOU CAN SEE IT ALSO IN CONSERVATIVE CATHOLICISM IN THE PENTECOSTAL CHARISMATIC TRADITION.

THAT'S REALLY BEEN CULTIVATED FOR HALF A CENTURY NOW IF YOU LOOK BACK TO THE RISE OF THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT, YOU CAN SEE THIS A VERY US VERSUS THEM MENTALITY THAT DEPICTS KIND OF THE CHRISTIANS OUGHT TO HAVE CONTROL OF THIS COUNTRY AND ANYBODY WHO THREATENS THAT CONTROL IS SEEN AS AN ENEMY, AND THAT'S THE KIND OF THEOLOGY THAT PLAYS VERY WELL TO DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE HE HAS PROMISED TO PROTECT CHRISTIANITY, HIS WORDS.

HE HAS PROMISED TO BE THEIR ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPION AND TO BATTLE RUTHLESSLY FOR, PRESUMABLY, THEIR VISION WHICH ALIGNS WITH HIS VISION, WHICH IS AN OPEN QUESTION, BUT THAT'S WHO HE HAS PROMISED TO BE FOR THEM AND THAT IS REALLY THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING CHRISTIAN SUPPORT IN THIS COUNTRY FOR DONALD TRUMP.

THEY THINK HE WILL FIGHT FOR THEM AND HE WILL GIVE POWER TO THEM.

>> SO TELL ME ABOUT PROJECT 2025.

I MEAN, IF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE CAMPAIGN CLOSELY THEY MAY HAVE HEARD OF IT, WHAT IS IT AND WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT WE TALK ABOUT IT?

>> PROJECT 2025 IS A LENGTHY DOCUMENT, AROUND 900 PAGES PUT TOGETHER BY THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, AND SIGNED ON TO BY OVER A HUNDRED CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS WHICH ESSENTIALLY PROVIDES TRUMP OR THE NEXT TRUMP ADMINISTRATION A BLUEPRINT FOR POLICY PROPOSALS AND A CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL PLAYBOOK ALTHOUGH EXTREME AS WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT YEARS AND IT ALSO BRINGS TOGETHER A PROPOSAL TO ESSENTIALLY RESTRUCTURE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THAT'S WHAT'S KEY TO UNDERSTANDING ABOUT PROJECT 2025.

IT'S NOT JUST A POLICY PLAYBOOK.

IT'S ALSO A TOOL TO COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURE THE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE MORE POWER TO THE EXECUTIVE.

SO WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE RECENT SUPREME COURT RULING THAT GRANTS PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY AND HERE WE'RE SEEING A PLAYBOOK THAT IS ESSENTIALLY GOING TO HAND CONSIDERABLE POWER ACROSS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, ACROSS FEDERAL AGENCIES AND PLACE THAT POWER ENTIRELY IN THE HANDS OF THE NEXT PRESIDENT.

>> WHY -- WHY IS THIS A PARTICULAR CONCERN OF YOURS AS A SCHOLAR OF RELIGION AND THEOLOGY.

THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION ISN'T A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION.

WHY HAVE YOU SPENT SO MUCH FOCUS AND ATTENTION ON THIS?

>> MANY OF THE CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE EITHER CONTRIBUTED TO OR SIGNED ON TO PROJECT 2025 ARE DISTINCTLY CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS, AND YOU'VE GOT CHRISTIAN COLLEGES LIKE LIBERTY UNIVERSITY AND PATRICK HENRY COLLEGE AND YOU DO HAVE DOBBSON'S FAMILIEN STUT SIGNING ON TO THIS DOCUMENT.

SO WE HAVE TO THINK IN TERMS OF PARTNERSHIPS HERE.

A KEY PERSON HERE, A KEY FIGURE IS RUSSELL VOGT.

RUSSELL VOGT ACTUALLY IS A FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL IN THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET, AND HE ALSO WAS THE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMITTEE THAT WROTE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PLATFORM, RIGHT?

SO THERE IS VERY DEEP TIES IN A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND CLOSE CONNECTIONS TO TRUMP.

HE IS ALSO A SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST WITH VERY CLOSE TIES TO LEADING CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST VOICES IN VARIOUS DENOMINATIONS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, AND BOTH WROTE THE CHAPTER ON EXECUTIVE POWER.

SO HERE YOU CAN SEE THE CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AGENDA IS THEN GOING TO BE PLACED IN THE HANDS OF AN EXECUTIVE WITH UNPRECEDENTED POWER, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT SUR RAY DATA ON CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM YOU DO NOT IDENTIFY ME AND THEY DO NOT WANT EYE CHRISTIAN NATION ACCORDING TO THIS, BUT THIS KIND OF EXECUTIVE POWER GRAB MAY, IN FACT, ACCOMPLISH WHAT THEY ARE SETTING OUT TO DO.

>> IT ENVISIONS A TOP TO BOTTOM OVERHAUL OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT IT PROPOSES.

FIRST, A GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE AND REALLY IMPORTANT HERE IS IT PROPOSES ESSENTIALLY REDEFINING THOUSANDS, PROBABLY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FEDERAL WORKERS AS POLITICAL APPOINT SEES AND SO THE GOAL HERE IS TO INSTALL -- SOME PEOPLE SUGGEST 20,000 AND SOME AS MANY AS 50,000 FEDERAL WORKERS, CIVIL SERVANTS AND FEAR THOSE WHO ARE STACKING FEDERAL AGENCIES AND REPLACING THEM WITH TRUMP LOYALISTS.

IN FACT, PART OF PROJECT 2025 IS WHAT PEOPLE HAVE REFERRED TO AS A KIND OF CONSERVATIVE LINKEDIN, SO THERE IS A RECRUITMENT DATABASE AND ONLINE TRAINING TO TRAIN IDEOLOGICALLY AND IN TERMS OF PRACTICAL SKILLS TO STAFF A NEW GOVERNMENT WITH LOYALISTS TO TRUMP ACROSS ALL AGENCIES, AND THIS INCLUDES THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

THIS IS A REALLY KEY POINT TO UNDERSTAND IN TERMS OF THE REPERCUSSIONS HARE.

TRUMP HIMSELF HAS MADE VERY PLAIN THAT HE WANTS TO WEAPONIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND SEIZE CONTROL OVER OPERATIONS AND THEN USE THAT TO SEEK RETRIBUTION AGAINST HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES.

PROJECT 2025 GIVES HIM THE GAME PLAN TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL, AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN TERMS OF GOVERNMENT RESTRUCTURING AND THEN'S THAT FRONT.

WE ARE RESTRICTING MIFEPRISTONE AND THE COMSTOCK ACT WHICH WILL PROHIBIT THE MAILING OF ABORTION PILLS, POSSIBLY ALSO HOW FAR THEY TAKE TO CONTRACEPTIVES AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS AND ANTI-LGBTQ LEGISLATION AND ANTI-DEI PROPOSALS TO PROHIBIT THEIR USE OF LANGUAGE OF WORDS AND FEDERAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS, THINGS LIKE ABORTION, REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, GENDER IDENTITY AND GENDER EQUITY AND THESE SORTS OF TERMS ARE GOING TO BE CANCELLED AND NOT ALLOWED IN ANY FEDERAL LAWS OR REGULATIONS.

SO IT REALLY IS EXPANSIVE IN SCOPE.

>> IN SOME OF THESE PROPOSALS THERE IS AN EXPLICIT CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST TONE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES THERE IS A, QUOTE, BIBLICALLY, CHILDREN REQUIRE BOTH THE LOVE AND NURTURING OF A MOTHER AND THE PLAY AND PROTECTION OF A FATHER.

OKAY.

THAT IS A POINT OF VIEW, BUT WE HAVE A VERY LONG ESTABLISHED PRINCIPLE HERE OF -- OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STATE RELIGION.

HOW WOULD THIS PASS MUSTER IN THE COURTS?

THE COURTS HAVE STILL UPHELD THESE LONG-HELD PRINCIPLES THAT SUGGEST THAT YOU CANNOT ADVANTAGE ONE RELIGIOUS VIEW OVER OTHERS.

HOW DO THEY GET AROUND THAT?

>> I'M REALLY GLAD YOU POINTED TO THAT PARTICULAR PASSAGE WHICH COULD HAVE SOME REAL IMPLICATIONS, OBVIOUSLY, FOR SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, FOR ADOPTION AND EVEN POTENTIALLY FOR DIVORCE AND SO THAT'S REALLY KEY AND IT'S ROOTING THAT PROPOSAL IN WHAT THEY CLAIM TO BE BIBLICAL MARRIAGE, A BIBLICAL PRESCRIPTION FOR WHAT MARRIAGE IS AND IS NOT.

>> THERE'S AGO PASSAGE THAT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE FRAMEWORK HERE.

IDEA THAT THE CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES THE FRED OM OR LIBERTY TO DO WHAT ONE OUGHT TO DO, BUT DO WHAT ONE WILL DO.

YES YOU ARE FREE TO STRUCTURE FWOD'S LAWS AND THEY REDEFINE -- TO THE PURSUIT OF OF HAPPINESS.

THEY SAY IT'S ACTUALLY THE PURSUIT OF BLESSINGS AND YOU ARE BLESSED WHEN YOU OBEY THESE LAWS.

WHAT ARE THOSE LAWS?

THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN LOOK AT THE WHOLE CONSERVATIVE AGENDA HERE.

IT WILL BE ANTI-ABORTION.

IT WILL BE ANTI-LGBTQ, AND SO THESE RIGHTS DO NOT EXIST WITHIN THEIR FRAMEWORK, AND SO THEY ARE REDEFINING OUR NATION'S CONSTITUTION, REINTERPRETING IT THROUGH THIS LENS THAT THE ONLY RIGHTS THAT ARE GUARANTEED ARE THOSE THAT ALIGN WITH THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S LAW.

>> I THINK YOU STILL IDENTIFY AS A CHRISTIAN, WOULD THAT BE ACCURATE?

>> YES, I DO.

>> I'M JUST CURIOUS, WHY IS THIS THE VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY THAT IS ASCENDANT NOW WHEN SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF IT.

>> SO THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID, ARE SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE.

THIS DOES NOT ALIGN WITH HOW I UNDERSTAND JESUS' WORDS IN THE GOSPEL.

THIS DOES NOT ALIGN WITH HOW I THINK WE ARE CALLED TO BE FAITHFUL IN THIS WORLD, BUT WHEN YOU OFFER VOICES OF OPPOSITION, YOUR CHANCES ARE YOU'RE GOING TO RUN UP AGAINST SOME REAL OPPOSITION, AND MANY CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS ARE FUNDED BY POWERFUL CONSERVATIVE DONORS AND THIS IS TRUE IN HIGHER EDUCATION AND THIS IS ALSO TRUE IN THE -- IN THE CHRISTIAN NON-PROFIT WORLD.

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF PRESSURES AND THE CHRISTIAN MEDIA WORLD.

CHRISTIAN MUSIC.

IT IS VERY HARD TO FIND A CHRISTIAN RECORDING ARTIST WHO WILL PUBLICLY CALL OUT THESE THINGS BECAUSE IF THEY DO THEIR CAREER IS DONE.

AT LEAST THEY WILL NOT GET TIME ON CHRISTIAN RADIO IN TERMS OF CHRISTIAN PUBLISHING AND A MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR INDUSTRY WE'RE TALKING AND PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF CHRISTIAN SPACES OR CONSERVATIVE SPACERS NOT AWARE OF THIS MASSIVE INDUSTRY, AND SO MUCH MONEY IS CHANGING HANDS HERE, AND WITHIN THAT INDUSTRY THERE ARE POLITICAL ORTHODOXYS THAT YOU HAVE TO HOLD TO, AND IF YOU CROSS ANY OF THOSE, RIGHT?

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE BOOK CONTRACT.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE RECORD DEAL, AND SO WHAT WE HAVE IS A KIND OF INDOCTRINATION MAY NOT BE TOO STRONG OF A WORD, BUT CERTAINLY THE CULTIVATION OF ONE PARTICULAR WAY TO BE A CHRISTIAN AND CLOSING OFF MANY THESE OTHER UNDERSTANDINGS OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CHRISTIAN IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN THE WORLD TODAY.

>> THERE'S JUST ONE THING THAT I AM SORT OF JUST -- I STILL REMAIN PUZZLED BY AND THAT IS FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE.

THERE IS NO DENYING THAT HE WAS A MAN OF DEEP AND SINCERE FAITH, OKAY?

I AM JUST CURIOUS, WHY THE TREATMENT OF HIM?

IS IT MORE RESONANT AMONG OTHER EVANGELICALS?

I MEAN, HE'S MADE IT CLEAR HE WAS VERY BADLY TREATED.

THERE ARE PEOPLE CALLING FOR HIM TO BE KILLED.

>> MIKE PENCE IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE, I THINK OF HOW A LOT OF CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS AND A LARGE SWATH OF CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICALS HAVE EMBRACED A CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AGENDA AND WITHIN THAT CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM, PERSONAL PIETY IS NOT WHAT MAKES SOMEBODY A GREAT LEADER, NOT AT ALL.

IN FACT, THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK AGAINST THE PERSON IN TERMS OF THEIR LEADERSHIP CAPACITY, WHAT THEY WANT IS A FIGHTER.

THEY WANT SOMEBODY WHO WILL FIGHT THEIR BATTLES FOR THEM.

THEY WANT SOMEBODY WHO WILL TAKE ON THE LEFT, THE FEMINISTS AND THE WOKE IDEOLOGY AND WHO WILL FIGHT FOR THEM, WHO WILL PROTECT THEM AND ADVANCE THEIR AIMS AND THAT IS WHO TRUMP IS AND THAT'S WHO TRUMP PROMISED TO BE QUITE EXPLICITLY.

BACK IN 2016 IT WAS KIND OF UNPROVEN TERRITORY AT THAT TIME.

IT WASN'T QUITE CLEAR IF CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS WOULD EMBRACE A MAN LIKE TRUMP WHO SO CLEARLY DID NOT LIVE UP TO ANY OF THEIR MORAL STANDARDS THAT THEY CLAIM TO HOLD SO DEAR.

THIS IS THE MORAL MAJORITY, AFTER ALL.

THESE ARE FAMILY VALUES VOTERS, RIGHT?

AND SO MIKE PENCE WAS MAYBE A BIT OF AN INSURANCE POLICY OR IT WASN'T QUITE CLEAR THAT HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY -- THAT TRUMP DIDN'T NEED MIKE PENCE BECAUSE THEY WERE AFTER THE FIGHTER, AND PENCE DID NOT STAND UP AND FIGHT WHEN IT MATTERED OR TRUMP WHEN IT MATTERED TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION, AND SO PENCE VERY MUCH FELL OUT OF FAVOR.

A LOT OF CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN I KNOW SAY HE'S A GOOD GUY.

THOSE WHO AREN'T ROLLING THEIR EYES AT HIM FOR BEING TOO WEAK MIGHT SAY HE'S A GOOD GUY, BUT HE'S JUST NOT WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS RIGHT NOW.

WE NEED A STRONG MAN.

WE NEED SOMEBODY WHO WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PRESERVE THIS NATION AND TO RESTORE THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF CHRISTIAN AMERICA.

>> IS THIS A MOMENT IN TIME OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAS JUST BECOME SUCH A FEATURE OF AMERICAN CHRISTIANITY THAT IT IS GOING TO BE A FORCE FOR SOME TIME TO COME?

>> IT'S BOTH.

IT'S A CULMINATION IS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO ME THAT THESE -- THIS AGENDA IS NOT NEW.

THESE ASPIRATIONS, WE CAN TRACE BACK TO THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION WAS FOUNDED IN THE 1970s, AND THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT HAS BEEN ADVANCING THIS KIND OF MISSION FOR GENERATIONS NOW, BUT THIS IS VERY MUCH A MOMENT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW POISED TO ESSENTIALLY TAKE CONTROL OF THE COUNTRY AND THE VERY MECHANISMS OF OUR DEMOCRACY AND THAT IS WHAT IS NEW HERE.

THAT IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT, AND SO WE, YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST SOMETIMES YOU HAD RONALD REAGAN WINNING THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT IS CELEBRATING AND THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION OFFERS HIM A MANDATE FOR LEADERSHIP, AND WE'VE HAD THAT IN THE PAST, BUT WHAT WE HAVEN'T HAD IS THIS PLAN AND A LIKELIHOOD OF THEM ACHIEVING THIS GOAL IF THEY -- IF THEY WIN THE WHITE HOUSE OF COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURING OUR DEMOCRAT SEE, COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND IT IS NOT CLEAR WHAT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT AND IT IS NOT CLEAR IF WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER ELECTION OR IF WE CAN REVERSE THINGS AND IF WE ARE PIT AN ENTIRE TRAJECTORY IN THIS COUNTRY, AND EVERYONE LOOK AT THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

>> KRISTEN KOBES DU MEZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> BREAK DANCING AS PARIS PREPARES FOR THE OLYMPICS.

THE CITY OF LIGHTS BAKING OLYMPIC RINGS RIGHT INTO ITS OWN BREAD CRUST.

THE OWNER SAYS HE HOPES THE LOAVES BRING JOY TO HIS CUSTOMERS AS THEY GATHER FOR THE GAMES.

IN AN O FICHLIC FIRST BREAK DANCERS WILL BE IN COMPETITION INCLUDING OLEG KUZNIETSOV.

HE AND HIS FELLOW ATHLETES HOPE TO BE A VOICE FOR UKRAINE.

THAT WAS A GREAT VIDEO.

WELL, THAT DOES IT FOR NOW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING