August 14, 2024

♪♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP -- >> THE ENTIRE UNJUST WORLD DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THIS, THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY, HASSAN SAYS.

JUST NUMBERS, WE ARE JUST NUMBERS.

>> UNBEARABLE GRIEF IN GAZA, AS THE LATEST CEASE-FIRE TALKS HANG IN THE BALANCE.

THE PEOPLE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

AND -- TORTURED IN DETENTION.

AFTER CNN, ISRAEL'S CHANNEL 12, AND THE U.N. EXPOSE ABUSE OF PALESTINIANS IN ISRAELI CUSTODY, THE SEARING ISRAELI REPORT.

I'M JOINED BY YULI NOVAK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP.

>>> THEN, FIGHTING INEQUALITY.

HE MADE IT HIS LIFE'S WORK.

NOW, DARREN WALKER SAYS IT'S TIME TO LEAVE THE FORD FOUNDATION.

PLUS -- >> WE NEED THE GOOD GUYS TO STAY ON THE FIELD.

WE CAN'T ABANDON, YOU KNOW, OUR VOTING BOOTHS, WE CAN'T ABANDON THIS, JUST BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE ROCKY.

>> PRESERVES DEMOCRACY.

ELECTIONS UNDER THREAT IN AMERICA.

AND HOW TO FIGHT BACK.

♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

ON THE EVE OF CEASE-FIRE TALKS, THE MIDDLE EAST IS ON EDGE.

HAMAS SAYS IT WILL NOT TAKE PART IN THIS LATEST ROUND, BUT IS WILLING TO MEET MEDIATORS AFTERWARD.

THE U.S.

INSISTS NEGOTIATIONS WITH ISRAEL WILL STILL GO AHEAD IN QATAR TOMORROW, AND THAT A CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA IS STILL POSSIBLE.

SENIOR IRANIAN OFFICIALS ARE SAYING ONLY A CEASE-FIRE DEAL WOULD STOP THEIR RETALIATION AGAINST ISRAEL FOR THE ASSASSINATION OF HAMAS LEADER ISMAIL HANIYEH IN TEHRAN TWO WEEKS AGO.

MEANWHILE, EVERYDAY PEOPLE ARE DYING IN GAZA, AS THE DEATH TOLL THERE APPROACHES 40,000.

IT'S A STARK REMINDER OF THOSE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

THEY ARE THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES, WHO ARE HELD THERE, THEIR FAMILIES AND ORDINARY PALESTINIANS WHO FACE STARVATION AND THE BRUTALITY OF ISRAEL'S BOMBS.

AMONGST THE MANY TRAGIC STORIES OUT OF GAZA, THE DEATH OF NEWBORN TWINS AND THEIR MOTHER, AND THE EXCRUCIATING GRIEF OF THEIR FATHER.

CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND BRINGS US THIS REPORT.

>> Reporter: HOW DO YOU CONSOLE A MAN WHOSE WHOLE WORLD HAS BEEN SHATTERED?

A MAN WHO HOURS EARLIER WAS LOCKED IN THE WARM EMBRACE OF HIS WIFE AND NEWBORN BABIES.

BUT NOW, CRIES OUT IN AGONY, BEGGING TO SEE THEM ONE LAST TIME.

HIS NEW, HORRIFIC REALITY IS TOO MUCH TO BEAR.

HIS WIFE AND TWIN BABIES ARE DEAD, KILLED IN AN ISRAELI STRIKE ON THEIR APARTMENT IN CENTRAL GAZA, ACCORDING TO HOSPITAL OFFICIALS.

ISAL AND ISIR WERE JUST 3 DAYS OLD.

THE PALESTINIAN MINISTRY OF HEALTH SAYS THEY ARE AMONG 115 INFANTS BORN AND KILLED DURING THE WAR IN GAZA.

HOURS EARLIER, THEIR MOTHER, JUMANNA, A PHARMACIST, WAS BLISSFULLY RESPONDING TO CONGRATULATIONS AND WELL WISHES ON FACEBOOK.

"I FEEL LIKE IT WAS A MIRACLE.

EVERYTHING IS GOING WELL."

THE THREE NOW LIE HERE IN A ROOM CONSUMED WITHHAMMEDMOHAMMED'S INCONSOLABLE GRIEF.

THESE ARE THE BIRTHER IS TIFF KAFTS, HE SAYS.

WHILE I WAS GETTING THEM, I RECEIVED A PHONE CALL TELLING ME OUR APARTMENT WAS TARGETED AND THAT MY WIFE AND CHILDREN WERE AT THE HOSPITAL.

NEIGHBORS ARE STILL SIFTING THROUGH THE AFTERMATH OF THAT STRIKE.

HOSPITAL OFFICIALS SAY AN ISRAELI SHELL HIT THE BUILDING.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY DID NOT RESPOND TO CNN'S REQUEST FOR COMMENT.

THE VICTIMS OF SEVERAL OTHER STRIKES IN CENTRAL GAZA ALSO POUR INTO THE HOSPITAL.

WHERE MORE PARENTS GRIEVE THE DEATHS OF THEIR CHILDREN.

"HOW CAN I LIVE AFTER YOU, MY SON," THIS MOTHER CRIES.

AMID THE GRIEF, THERE IS ALSO ANGER AND EXASPERATION, INCLUDING FROM THE DEAD MAN'S FATHER.

"THE ENTIRE UNJUST WORLD DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THIS, THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY," HASSAN SAYS.

"JUST NUMBERS, WE ARE JUST NUMBERS, BUT FOR GOD, WE ARE MARTYRS."

ONE BY ONE, THEIR BO BODIES ARE BROUGHT OUT OF THE MORGUE, SO THE LIVING CAN PRAY FOR THE DEAD.

INCLUDING A 9-MONTH-OLD AND HIS FATHER.

MOHAMMED IS PERFORMING THE SAME RITUALS FOR HIS WIFE AND BABIES.

FOR A NEW FATHER WITH NO CHILDREN TO RAISE.

>> JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTING THERE WITH SUPPORT FROM PALESTINIAN JOURNALISTS INSIDE GAZA.

AS THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES CONTINUE TO BAR FOREIGN JOURNALISTS FROM ACCESSING IT.

BUT THE SUFFERING OF PALESTINIANS GOES BEYOND EVEN THIS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL ALLEGATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES INSIDE ISRAELI DETENTION CENTERS.

A CNN INVESTIGATION IN MAY EXPOSED ABUSES AT THE SDE TEIMAN DETENTION CAMP.

ISRAELI CHANNEL 12 SHOWED FOOTAGE THAT APPEARED TO SHOW A DETAINEE ALLEGEDLY SEXUALLY ASSAULTED.

AT LEAST 53 PEOPLE DYING IN ISRAELI DETENTION.

AND THE LATEST, A MAJOR REPORT FROM THE ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP HAS COLLECTED TESTIMONY FROM DOZENS OF PALESTINIAN FORMER DETAINEES ALLEGING ABUSE, STARVATION, AND MORE.

THE IDF HAS REPEATEDLY REJECTED ALLEGATIONS OF SYSTEMATIC ABUSE.

YULI NOVAK IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE GROUP, AND SHE'S JOINING ME NOW FROM TEL AVIV.

YULI NOVAK, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

HELL" MAKES VERY, VERY SHOCKING AND DISTURBING READING.

AND, OF COURSE, AFTER OCTOBER 7th, WHERE 1,200 ISRAELIS, INCLUDING CIVILIANS, WERE BRUTALLY MASSACRED.

THE ASSOCIATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS IN ISRAEL HAS ACCUSED THE GOVERNMENT OF, QUOTE, CONSCIOUSLY DEFYING INTERNATIONAL LAW.

CAN YOU TELL US THE MAJOR FINDINGS OF YOUR REPORT?

>> YEAH, SO, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THE REPORT WAS PUBLISHED LAST WEEK, AND IS BASED ON TESTIMONIES OF 55 PEOPLE, PALESTINIANS, WHO GOT RELEASED FROM ISRAELI JAILS, DIFFERENT DETENTION CENTERS, 16 DIFFERENT DETENTION CENTERS, THROUGHOUT THE LAST MONTH.

AND THEY TOLD US ON THE CONDITION, AS I SAID, IN THESE DETENTION CENTERS SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

WHAT WE HEARD AGAIN AND AGAIN, REPEATING STORIES AND DESCRIPTION OF ONGOING DAILY ABUSE, PHYSICAL AND MENTAL.

WE HEARD ABOUT SLEEP DEPRIVATION, ABOUT STARVATION OF PEOPLE.

ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT.

ABOUT INHUMANE SANITARY CONDITIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE HELD IN.

AND THOSE THINGS AND MANY MORE ARE -- BECAME WHAT WE FIGURED OUT FROM ALL THESE TESTIMONIES BECAME THE NORM IN ISRAELI PRISON SYSTEM.

>> CAN I ASK YOU HOW YOU GOT THESE TESTIMONIES, WHAT WAS THE METHODOLOGY?

>> YES, OF COURSE.

SO, WE ARE AN ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION, BUT OUR STAFF ARE COMBINED FROM JEWS AND PALESTINIANS FROM ALL OVER THE REGION, BETWEEN THE JORDAN RIVER AND THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA.

A LARGE PART OF OUR STAFF ARE FIELD RESEARCHERS, THEY ARE PALESTINIANS, AND THEY CONNECTED THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE BRAVE ENOUGH TO COME AND GIVE THEIR TESTIMONIES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM GAZA -- THE GAZA STRIP, FROM THE WEST BANK, INCLUDING EAST JERUSALEM, AND SOME ISRAELI CITIZENS.

AND THE ASTONISHING THING ABOUT IT IS THAT, AGAIN, DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER, SOME OF THEM YOUNG, SOME OF THEM OLD, WHO GOT ARRESTED IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM GOT RELEASED WITHOUT ANY CHARGES, RIGHT?

SO, THEY WERE HELD FOR A WEEK, TWO WEEKS, A MONTH, SIX MONTHS, WHATEVER, AND THEN GOT RELEASED, AND ALL OF THEM EXPERIENCED REPEATED -- THE SAME EXPERIENCE, AGAIN AND AGAIN.

SO, THESE PRACTICES, AND THE SIMILARITIES THAT WE HEARD FROM THE VARIOUS TESTIFIERS SHOW US THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PATTERN, ABOUT A POLICY, AND NOT ABOUT A SPECIFIC OCCASION.

AND IN THAT SENSE, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED SDE TEIMAN, AND WHAT WE HEARD, OR, WHAT WE KNOW HOW IS THAT SDE TEIMAN IS ACTUALLY JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG, AS MUCH AS IT CONCERNS THE TREATMENT OF ISRAEL OF ITS PALESTINIANS DETAINEES.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO SDE TEIMAN IN A MOMENT, BECAUSE CNN DID AN INVESTIGATION THERE, BUT FIRST, I WANT TO BRING SOME OF THE TESTIMONIES THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED AND THAT HAS BEEN MADE ACCESSIBLE TO US.

THIS -- AS YOU SAID, YOU SPOKE TO SEVERAL DOZEN PEOPLE.

THIS ONE NOW IS AN ISRAELI-ARAB LAWYER FROM HAIFA, AND HERE'S WHAT HE TOLD YOU ABOUT WHAT HE SAW WHILE HE WAS HIMSELF IN DETENTION.

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU BELIEVE DIED IN CUSTODY, AS IS REPORTED ON THAT PARTICULAR CASE?

>> WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW.

WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN 60 PEOPLE IN THE COURSE OF -- OF, YOU KNOW, THE LAST TEN MONTHS, BUT EITHER IN CUSTODY OR -- THEY WERE IN CUSTODY, EITHER IN JAIL OR THEY WERE TRANSPORTED TO JAIL.

SO, WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW THE ACTUAL NUMBER.

HAVE TO SAY THAT 60 IS ALREADY, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT IS HARD TO GRASP, BUT AGAIN, THE SITUATION -- YOU KNOW, ONE OTHER THING THAT WE HEARD AGAIN AND AGAIN IS THE LACK OF MEDICAL TREATMENT.

RIGHT?

SO, PEOPLE NOT ONLY BEING BEATEN UP DAILY AND -- AND GOING ON AND LIVING IN THIS UNBELIEVABLE INHUMANE, UNSANITARY CONDITION, THEY ARE ALSO GETTING NO MEDICAL TREATMENT.

ONLY IN THE EXTREME, EXTREME CASES, AND EVEN THAT, AS WE HEARD, NOT ALWAYS HAPPENS.

>> AND YULI, WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER TESTIMONY, AND THIS IS A WOMAN, I MEAN, PEOPLE MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, SURPRISED THAT WOMEN ARE ALSO BEING ROUNDED UP.

SHE, TOO, IS A PALESTINIAN CITIZEN OF ISRAEL, SHE STUDIES AT AN ISRAELI UNIVERSITY, AND SHE WAS TAKEN TO THE ANOTHER PRISON.

AND THE TESTIMONY THAT WE'RE GOING TO PLAY, SHE DESCRIBES A PUNISHMENT AFTER THEY ASKED FOR SANITARY PADS WHILE SEVERAL WOMEN HAD THEIR PERIODS.

HERE'S WHAT SHE SAID.

>> SO, HOW WERE THE WOMEN TREATED IN GENERAL?

AND HAVE YOU, IN THE PAST, SEEN THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR BEFORE?

>> SO, MAYBE I'LL START WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALL -- THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED ON THIS REPORT, IT'S THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION, WE ARE ALL VERY, LIKE, EXPERIENCED AND HAVE A BACKGROUND IN INVESTIGATION AND DOING EXACTLY THAT WORK.

AND WE WERE ALL, TO BE SINCERE, SHOCKED, WHEN WE FIGURED OUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING, AGAIN, THIS POLICY, AND THIS -- THE SIMILARITIES AND THE FACT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ORGANIZED AND SYSTEMATICALLY.

AND IN THAT SENSE, SOMETHING CHANGE AFTER OCTOBER 7th, AND, YOU KNOW, ISRAELI PRISON SYSTEM WAS NEVER UNLIKE WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT TRIED TO SAY WAS NEVER A KINDERGARTEN OR SUMMER CAMP FOR PALESTINIANS.

JUST IF -- IT WAS ALWAYS A TOOL FOR OPPRESSION AGAINST THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, JUST -- IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE NUMBERS ARE ASTONISHING.

WE KNOW OF MORE THAN 800,000 PALESTINIANS FROM THE TERRITORIES, FROM THE WEST BANK AND GAZA THAT WERE HELD IN ISRAELI PRISONS SINCE '67.

IT'S ALMOST A FIFTH OF THE WHOLE POPULATION OF THAT AREA.

SO, THINK ABOUT THAT.

HOW IT, IN FACT, THE POPULATION AND THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE, BUT NO DOUBT THINGS HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

AND IN A WAY, IT IS NOT SURPRISING.

IT IS DEVASTATING TO SEE, BUT IT IS NOT SURPRISING, WHEN YOU HEAR THE OFFICIALS RESPONSIBLE ON THE PRISONS, AND THEIR STAND AND THEIR AGENDA, THE RACIST AND VIOLENT AGENDA IN REGARD TO PALESTINIANS EVERYWHERE, BUT ESPECIALLY IN JAILS.

>> I WONDER -- WE BROUGHT UP THE, YOU KNOW, THE CONSEQUENCES OF SDE TEIMAN.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN'S INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, HAD A VERY IMPORTANT INVESTIGATION.

AND IN THIS EXCERPT THAT WE ORIGINALLY AIRED BACK IN MAY, IN THIS EXCERPT, HE TALKS TO AN ISRAELI DOCTOR WHO TOLD CNN ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS AT THIS SDE TEIMAN DETENTION CAMP, AND I'M GOING TO PLAY THIS LITTLE EXCERPT.

REMEMBER, THIS IS AN ISRAELI DOCTOR TALKING TO HIM.

>> THE PROBLEM IS, GAZANS WHO ARE BROUGHT IN ARE LABELED AS TERRORISTS, AND IT IS VERY POPULAR OPINION OVER HERE THAT TERRORISTS DESERVE TO DIE.

SO, THEY DO NOT DESERVE THE SAME MEDICAL CARE AS EVERYONE ELSE.

>> SATELLITE IMAGERY OBTAINED BY CNN SHOWS HOW THE SDE TEIMAN FACILITY WAS EXPANDED AFTER THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS.

WITH DETENTION FACIIIES AND MAKESHIFT MEDICAL BAYS BEING ADDED AFTER PUBLIC HOSPITALS IN ISRAEL REFUSED TO TREAT INJURED GAZAN SUSPECTS.

EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS DESCRIBE A FIELD HOSPITAL WITH 15 TO 20 PATIENTS, VIRTUALLY NAKED AND BLINDFOLDED, WITH HANDS AND FEET SHACKLED TO THEIR BEDS AND WEARING DIAPERS.

>> SO, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU SAY IS A SYSTEMATIC PATTERN, ESPECIALLY SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S ABOUT REVENGE, AS SOME HAVE SUGGESTED?

>> I THINK IT ALSO HAVE TO DO WITH REVENGE.

I THINK MANY OF THE FEELINGS OF THE ISRAELIS, INCLUDING ME, HAVE SINCE OCTOBER 7th, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL WALKING AROUND WITH THIS TRAUMA AND THIS ANXIETY INSIDE US.

AND WHAT I SAY NOW IS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS TAKING ADVANTAGE, SERIOUSLY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS FEAR AND ANXIETY THAT WE'RE ALL IN, IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT THEIR UNBELIEVABLE RACIST, FASCIST AGENDA TOWARDS PALESTINIANS.

AND IN THAT SENSE, YEAH, YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE HERE IS SOMETIMES VERY HARD TO HEAR, AND VERY HARD TO LISTEN.

AND I'M SURE REVENGE IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY MUCH INSTILLED INTO US.

ALMOST BY OUR GOVERNMENT, ALMOST AS A FRAMEWORK OF HOW WE ARE DOING THINGS.

THIS IS OUR -- OUR CONCEPTION OF SECURITY, THE WAY WE KEEP US SECURE IS TO ABUSE, TO KILL, TO DISTRACT AS MUCH AS WE CAN OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, AND THAT'S QUITE DEVASTATING STATE TO BE IN, AS A SOCIETY.

BECAUSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING TODAY, AND ALSO WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE AND WHERE WE ARE HEADING.

>> SO, NOW FOR THE ISRAELI RESPONSE.

OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE SOUGHT RESPONSE FROM THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES.

IN THIS CASE, WE HAVE RECEIVED RESPONSE FROM THE ISRAELI PRISON SERVICE, WHICH -- WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE DETENTION CENTERS.

HERE'S WHAT THEY TOLD US TODAY.

WE ARE NOT AWARE OF THE CLAIMS YOU DESCRIBED.

AND AS FAR AS WE KNOW, NO SUCH EVENTS HAVE OCCURRED UNDER IPS RESPONSIBILITY.

NONETHELESS, PRISONERS AND DETAINEES HAVE THE RIGHT TO FILE A COMPLAINT THAT WILL BE FULLY EXAMINED AND ADDRESSED BY OFFICIAL AUTHORITIES.

THEY WENT ON TO SAY THIS.

SINCE OCTOBER 7th, 2023, AS INSTRUCTED BY MINISTER MBENGA VEER, THE PRISON CONDITIONS OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY PRISONERS HAVE BEEN MADE STRICT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MINISTER'S POLICY OF STOPPING THE IMPROVED PRISON CONDITIONS THEY HAVE RECEIVED IN THE PAST.

NOW, AS YOU KNOW, AND PERHAPS OUR VIEWERS KNOW, THIS IS THE EXTREME RIGHT WING -- ONE OF THE AUTHORITIES THAT ARE IN COALITION THAT KEEP THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT PROPPED UP, AND HE HAS BEEN MADE MINISTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY.

HE HAS ALSO SAID SINCE OCTOBER 7th THAT HE IS PROUD THAT "DURING MY TIME, WE HAVE CHANGED ALL OF THE CONDITIONS", IE, WHERE THEY HAVE DETERIORATED SHARPLY.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THIS RESPONSE AND HOW PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE HE MIGHT BE?

>> SO, FIRST OF ALL, I'M ASHAMED AS AN ISRAELI, TO HEAR THAT.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN FILE A COMPLAINT -- TO WHO?

TO THE GUARDS THAT JUST BEAT THEM UP?

TO -- TO WHO?

WHEN?

YOU KNOW, WHEN THOSE PRISONERS ARE BROUGHT TO A JUDGE, TO A COURT, IT'S BY VIDEO.

THAT'S A LEGISLATION THAT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT MADE.

SO, IT'S BY VIDEO, AND THE GUARDS ARE STANDING HERE AND SOME TESTIMONIES WE HEAR THAT THE GUARDS ARE BEATING THEM AND THREATENING THEM JUST BEFORE THEY ARE APPROACHING THE JUDGE NOT TO SAY ANYTHING.

SO, THAT'S COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS, AND -- AND REALLY IT'S AMAZING TO SEE THEY HAVE THE BOLDNESS TO REACT THAT WAY.

AND -- BUT MORE THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIM, AND THAT'S AMAZING.

YOU SAID RIGHT WING, IT'S THE MOST EXTREME -- YOU CANNOT GO FARTHER IN THE FAR RIGHT THAN THAT.

AND THIS IS A PERSON WHO GOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OVER THE POLICE AND THE PRISON SYSTEM.

TWO OF THE STATE APPARATUS SYSTEM THAT HAS THE MOST POTENTIAL TO BE VIOLENT AND CRUEL.

AND THIS MAN STOOD UP AND SHOWED HIS AGENDA.

YOU KNOW, HIS RACIST, VIOLENT, SADISTIC AGENDA.

AND THEN JUST SEIZE THE MOMENT AND CHANGED THE WHOLE THING, ACCORDING TO THAT AGENDA, WITH THE OTHER PARTS OF, YOU KNOW, THE LEGAL GATEKEEPERS, THE PARLIAMENT, THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF, ALL BACKING HIM UP, OR TURNING A BLIND EYE AND LET THIS THING HAPPEN.

SO, I DON'T KNOW, I HAVE NO TRUST, NO -- ANY TRUST IN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE THIS, TO EVEN REACT TO THIS.

THEY HAVE PROVEN US ONCE AND AGAIN AND AGAIN IN THE LAST MONTH THAT THEY CARE NOTHING, NOT ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, AND NOT ABOUT HUMAN DIGNITY OR HUMAN LIFE.

IT'S THE SAME, YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT IT, IT GOES TO THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES.

ISRAELI CITIZENS, HOSTAGES, THAT ARE HELD IN GAZA, AND THIS GOVERNMENT DOING WHATEVER THEY CAN IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THEY WON'T BE BACK ALIVE.

AND IT GOES TO THE TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS IN ISRAELI JAILS THAT BECAME TORTURE CAMPS IN PRACTICE.

>> SO, THE IDF RESPONSE TO THIS IS THAT IT OPERATES ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW AND ISRAELI LAW, PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF DETAINEES IN ITS FACILITIES, AND WE HAVE A LIST OF WHAT IT HAS SAID, LIKE, IT CATEGORICALLY REJECTS ALLEGATIONS OF SYSTEMIC ABUSE, INCLUDE, SEXUAL ABUSE IN ITS DETENTION FACILITIES.

THEY SAY DETAINEES ARE GIVEN CLEAN CLOTHES, ADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE.

BUT I SPECIFICALLY ASKED A RETIRED MAJOR GENERAL YESTERDAY IF THESE ALLEGATIONS, PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT SDE TEIMAN WERE PROVEN, AND THERE ARE ISRAELI SOLDIERS UNDER HOUSE ARREST, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN?

AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> SOLDIER THAT DOES SOMETHING THAT IS NOT LEGAL TO A TERRORIST OR OTHER ENEMY SHOULD BE PUNISHED VERY HARD, IN ORDER TO BROKE THROUGH TO OUR SOLDIERS AND TO STRENGTH THE MORALE OF OUR SOLDIERS.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

IT'S UNBELIEVABLE THAT WE GOT TO THIS PLACES, BUT IT'S STILL A MINORITY OF EXTREMISTS THAT WE SHOULD TAKE THEM OUT OF OUR SOCIETY.

>> SO, THAT WAS THE VIEW OF AT LEAST ONE IDF RETIRED OFFICIAL WHO I SPOKE TO, AND I KNOW WHAT YOUR VIEW IS, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS, IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN INCREDIBLY INVESTIGATIVE AND FOR DECADES BEEN REVEALING ALL SORTS OF ABUSES.

YOU ONCE HAD TO LEAVE, IT WAS AFTER YOU WERE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF BREAKING THE SILENCE.

YOU'VE BEEN LABELED A TRAITOR.

HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS WORK, HOW DO YOU FACE, YOU KNOW, THE OBVIOUS ANGER, I ASSUME, FROM A LARGE PART OF ISRAELI SOCIETY, PARTICULARLY AFTER OCTOBER 7th?

>> BECAUSE I HAVE -- I MEAN, WHAT OTHER CHOICE DO I HAVE?

THIS IS MY COUNTRY, THIS IS MY HOME.

AND IT'S WHERE MY FAMILY IS, AND I THINK -- THAT GOES FOR ME AND FOR ALL MY PARTNERS AND COLLEAGUES AND TEAM, YOU KNOW, WHERE -- WE ARE JEWS AND PALESTINIANS THAT BELIEVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS AND JUSTICE AND FREEDOM, AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF US HAVE ANY OTHER CHOICE BUT TO DO WHAT WE ARE DOING.

IT IS SCARY.

IT DOES HAVE A PRICE TAG ON IT.

ESPECIALLY FOR OUR PALESTINIAN COMRADES WHO ARE SUPER BRAVELY DOING THIS WORK, INCLUDING WORKING ON THIS REPORT.

AND I CAN NEVER -- I WOULD NEVER UNDERSTAND THEIR BRAVERY AND HOW MUCH THEY ARE WILLING TO SACRIFICE FOR DOING THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT -- I THINK WE'RE ALL DOING IT JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

THIS IS OUR HOME AND WE NEED TO FIGHT OVER IT.

>> YULI NOVAK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

>>> AND OUR NEXT GUEST HAS PUT HUMAN WELFARE AND THE FIGHT FOR EQUALITY AT THE HEART OF ONE OF AMERICA'S BIGGEST PHILANTHROPIC ORGANIZATIONS.

DARREN WALKER HAS LED THE FORD FOUNDATION FOR OVER A DECADE.

DURING HIS TENURE, IT'S DISTRIBUTED OVER $7 BILLION IN GRANTS, AND HAS TRANSFORMED THE FOUNDATION FROM, QUOTE, GENEROSITY TO JUSTICE, WHICH HE ALSO TITLED HIS BOOK.

WALKER HAS ANNOUNCED RECENTLY THAT HE'LL STEP DOWN AT THE END OF 2025, AND HE'S JOINING ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

DARREN WALKER, THE FIGHT FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE IS NOT JUST AMERICAN, BUT IS GLOBAL.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT TO WEIGH INTO WHAT YOU JUST HEARD, BUT IT SEEMS THAT THESE FIGHTS FOR EQUALITY, PARTICULARLY OF MINORITIES, ARE -- IS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON.

>> IT IS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON, CHRISTIANE, AND THE GOOD NEWS IS, THIS IS A PERIOD WHEN WE HAVE OVER 50 COUNTRIES ENGAGED IN DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS, SO, THE OPPORTUNITY FOR DEMOCRACY TO GROW AND TO THRIVE IS BEFORE US.

AND THE QUESTION IS, CAN WE STEP INTO THIS MOMENT?

MY VIEW IS THAT INEQUALITY IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT MAKES IT HARDER FOR DEMOCRACIES TO THRIVE.

AS I LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WE ARE A NATION THAT IS BUILT ON THE IDEA OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM.

INEQUALITY IS THE ENEMY OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM, BECAUSE IT RENDERS HOPE AS AN IDEA THAT IS MORE AND MORE REMOTE TO THE AVERAGE AMERICAN.

AND THAT IS BAD FOR OUR POLITICS AND ULTIMATELY BAD FOR OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT TO WEIGH IN, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE AN INFUSION OF HOPE, GIVEN THE CHANGE AT THE TOP OF THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET GOING FORWARD.

DOES THAT GIVE YOU HOPE?

>> WELL, WE'RE A NONPARTISAN ORGANIZATION, BUT WHAT GIVES ME HOPE IS THE IDEA THAT MORE AMERICANS, MORE PEOPLE GLOBALLY, WILL BE ENGAGED IN THE IDEA OF VOTING AND DETERMINING THEIR LEADERS.

I AM EXCITED ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE AMERICANS TO VOTE, AS WE LOOK AT THE LANDSCAPE DOMESTICALLY.

THAT'S NOT A POLITICAL STATEMENT.

THAT'S A PATRIOTIC STATEMENT.

I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYONE NOT WANTING MORE AMERICANS TO VOTE.

THAT IS AMONG THE MOST NOBLE AND HONORABLE CALLINGS OF A CITIZEN.

>> DARREN, IT MAY SOUND STRANGE FOR ME TO BE ASKING THE HEAD OF A PHILANTHROPY THESE QUESTIONS, BUT YOU CHANGED THE DNA OF FILL LAND TROPIC GIVING BY MOVING AWAY FROM JUST GIVING, JUST PAYING BACK, AND ATTACHING THE MISSION TO JUSTICE.

IN FACT, YOU KNOW, NOT GENEROSITY, BUT JUSTIN, AS WELL.

HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT IDEA?

>> THAT IDEA CAME UP BECAUSE I WAS READING A RATHER OBSCURE SPEECH BY DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING THAT HE GAVE JUST A FEW MONTHS BEFORE HE WAS ASSASSINATED IN 1968, AND HE SPOKE TO A GROUP OF PHILANTHROPISTS AND HE SAID THE FOLLOWING.

PHILANTHROPY IS COMMENDABLE, BUT YOU SHOULD NOT OVERLOOK THE ECONOMIC INJUSTICE WHICH MAKES PHILANTHROPY NECESSARY.

SO, WHAT DR. KING WAS SAYING WAS DIFFERENT.

HE WAS SAYING, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT GENEROSITY, CHARITY, GIVING BACK, HE WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS ABOUT HUMAN DIGNITY, JUSTICE, AND THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE PRIVILEGED MIGHT, INDEED, ULTIMATELY HAVE TO GIVE SOMETHING UP IN ORDER SO THAT OUR FELLOW CITIZENS COULD LIVE WITH GREATER SHARED PROSPERITY.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED BY MANY OF THE GREAT AND THE GOOD IN THE UNITED STATES AS COMPLETELY REDEFINING THE DNA OF PHILANTHROPY.

MELISSA GATES, FOR INSTANCE, SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE LED THE ENTIRE PHILANTHROPIC COMMUNITY TO RE-EXAMINE AND REIMAGINE ITS BEDROCK ASSUMPTIONS.

BARACK OBAMA HAS SUNG YOUR PRAISES, AS WELL.

YOU ALSO DON'T STEP AWAY AND DON'T SHY AWAY FROM BEING A PROUD CAPITALIST, IF I'M GETTING THIS RIGHT.

YOU HAVE BEEN ON BOARDS OF SOME OF THE GREAT AMERICAN CORPORATIONS, AND YOU DON'T SEE ANY SORT OF DIFFERENCE, OR ANY SORT OF ISSUE WITH PHILANTHROPY AND THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I AM A CAPITALIST, BUT I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE KIND OF CAPITALISM WE'RE GENERATING TODAY IS NOT SUSTAINABLE, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ENOUGH SHARED PROSPERITY.

SO, AT THE FORD TOWN STATION, FOUNDATION, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR WAYS TO MODEL AND DEMONSTRATE HOW WE BRING ABOUT A BROADER SENSE OF OWNERSHIP IN OUR SOCIETY.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE INITIATIVES WE'RE WORKING ON, OWNERSHIP WORKS, SEEKS TO ENSURE THAT WORKERS HAVE EQUITY, OWNERSHIP IN THE COMPANIES THEY WORK FOR.

MY GRANDFATHER, WHO WAS SEMI-LITERAL, WITH A THIRD-GREAT EDUCATION, WAS A SHOE SHINE MAN AT THE OIL COMPANY WHERE HE WORKED.

HE GOT EQUITY.

HE WAS A PARTICIPANT IN A PROFIT SHARING PLAN THAT ALLOWED HIM TO RETIRE WITH DIGNITY.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE LANDSCAPE FOR RETIREMENT FOR AMERICAN WORKERS TODAY, IT'S RATHER STARK, BECAUSE WE KNOW FROM RESEARCH THAT SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF AMERICANS ARE NOT PREPARED, THEY DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH SAVINGS, AND MOST ACTUALLY ARE NOT OWNERS OF THE COMPANIES THEY WORK FOR.

>> AND DARREN, YOU'VE GIVEN AWAY, I BELIEVE UNDER YOUR TENURE, SOME $7 BILLION IN THESE KINDS OF GAME-CHANGING MISSIONS TO SORT OF, AS YOU SAY, DO WHAT YOU'VE JUST BEEN SAYING, BRING JUSTICE AND EQUALITY HIGHER UP, BUT YOU'VE ALSO INVESTED IN DIVERSIFYING THE ARTS.

YOU HELPED FUND THE MET OPERA'S FIRST PRODUCTION BY A BLACK COMPOSER, I INTERVIEWED HIM ABOUT IT.

BUT WHY IS THAT ON THE AGENDA OF A FOUNDATION LIKE YOURS?

WHAT DOES THAT DO TO FULFILL YOUR MISSION?

>> BECAUSE THE ARTS IS A PLACE WHERE INEQUALITY IN OUR SOCIETY HAS BEEN REFLECTED.

THE METROPOLITAN OPERA, LIKE MOST ARTS ORGANIZATIONS, HAD NO HISTORY OF PRESENTING ARTS REFLECTING THE BROAD SWATH OF AMERICAN SOCIETY.

INDEED, THE METROPOLITAN OPERA HAD ACCEPTED A COMMISSION IN THE EARLY 1900s ONLY TO REJECT IT WHEN THEY LEARNED THAT THE LEER CYST WAS A BLACK MAN.

BECAUSE THEY SAID AMERICAN AUDIENCES WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE IDEA OF A BLACK PERSON CREATING OPRAH.

THIS WAS HIGH ART.

WHEN WE LOOK IN THE VISUAL ARTS, THE NUMBERS OF GREAT AMERICAN ARTISTS WHO HAVE SIMPLY BEEN ERASED, WHO WERE IGNORED, BECAUSE GATEKEEPERS DEEMED THEIR WORK NOT WORTHY OF FINE ART.

THESE ARE WAYS IN WHICH THESE SYSTEMS MORE BROADLY IN SOCIETY MAN ANY FEST IN THE ARTS.

AND THE ARTS ARE IMPORTANT, CHRISTIANE, BECAUSE THEY TELL US WHO WE ARE.

THEY ARE THE SOUNDTRACK FOR WHO WE ARE AS A PEOPLE, AND UNFORTUNATELY, FOR FAR TOO LONG IN AMERICAN HISTORY, THAT SOUNDTRACK HAS NOT BEEN FULL, IT HAS NOT REFLECTED THE RICH DIVERSITY OF OUR CULTURE, OF OUR SOCIETY.

>> YOU REFLECT THE MISSION, FRANKLY.

YOU GREW UP IN LOUISIANA, PARTS OF TEXAS.

YOU WERE THE FIRST PRESCHOOL, YOU KNOW, RECRUITED FOR THE FIRST PRESCHOOL IN THE FAMOUS HEAD START MOVEMENT BACK IN THE '60s, I THINK IT WAS, PUBLICLY FUNDED STATE COLLEGE, ET CETERA.

AND IN PREVIOUS INTERVIEWS, YOU HAVE SAID, QUOTE, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT HENRY FORD WOULD BE SURPRISED THAT A BLACK GAY MAN WAS PRESIDENT OF HIS FOUNDATION.

SO, WHAT HAS ALL THIS MEANT TO YOU AND THE FACT THAT YOU'VE YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE 12 YEARS BY THE TIME YOU STEP DOWN.

>> WELL, CHRISTIANE, MY STORY, WHILE SOMEWHAT IMPROBABLE, COULD ONLY HAPPEN IN AMERICA.

AND THIS IS WHY I FEEL ON OCCASIONS LIKE THIS, WHEN WE HAVE A CHANCE TO REFLECT ON THE HISTORY WITH THE FORD FOUNDATION, WHY I BELIEVE SO MUCH IN THIS COUNTRY, WHY I BELIEVE IN AMERICAN PHILANTHROPY.

MY OWN STORY OF 0 A POOR KID IN A SMALL TOWN, FINDING THEMSELVES AS PRESIDENT OF THE FORD FOUNDATION, COULD ONLY HAPPEN IN AMERICA.

AND SO, TODAY, WE'VE GOT TO ENSURE THAT MORE PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE I DID SOME 60 YEARS AGO, WHEN THAT WOMAN APPROACHED A LITTLE SHOTGUN SHACK WE LIVED ON A DIRT ROAD IN RURAL TEXAS AND TOLD MY MOTHER ABOUT HEAD START, THE OPPORTUNITY, THE BELIEVING IN HUMAN POTENTIAL OF POOR BLACK AND BROWN, RURAL WHITE PEOPLE WHO FEEL LEFT OUT AND LEFT BEHIND, WORKING CLASS AMERICANS WHO FEEL MARGINALIZED IN AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM AND A SOCIAL SYSTEM THAT HAS PUSHED THEM ASIDE, THAT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES CAN BE REAL.

WE NEED TO BELIEVE IN HOPE AND IN THE FUTURE IN AMERICA.

THAT'S WHAT WE DO AT THE FORD FOUNDATION.

WE'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF HOPE, AND IT'S BEEN AN ENORMOUS JOY AND HONOR TO SERVE THIS INSTITUTION.

>> AND DARREN WALKER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JUST END BY YOUR QUOTE IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES", AS GEORGE WASHINGTON SAID, HE HAD IT RIGHT, YOU SHOULD LEAVE BEFORE IT'S TIME TO GO.

AND YOU ARE LEAVING WITH SUCH SUCCESS.

THE END OF NEXT YEAR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> LESS THAN 90 DAYS UNTIL THE AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, GEORGIA REPUBLICANS HAVE PASSED NEW RULES THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO CONTEST THE RESULTS IN A SWING STATE SECURING THOSE VOTES IS CRUCIAL TO BOTH KAMALA HARRIS AND DONALD TRUMP'S PATHS TO VICTORY IN NOVEMBER.

AFTER THE JANUARY 6th CAPITOL RIOTS THAT SOUGHT TO OVERTURN PRESIDENT BIDEN'S WIN IN 2020, AMANDA CARPENTER OF THE GROUP PROTECT DEMOCRACY JOINS HARI TO DISCUSS THE DETERMINATION TO SAFEGUARD THE INTEGRITY OF THE 2024 ELECTION.

THIS CONVERSATION IS PART OF OUR ONGOING INITIATIVE THAT REPORTS ON THREATS TO DEMOCRACY, THE IMPACT OF CHANGES TO VOTING LAWS, AND WHAT CITIZENS NEED TO KNOW, CALLED "PRESERVING DEMOCRACY."

>> CHRISTIANE, THANK YOU.

AMANDA CARPENTER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION PARTLY BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED THESE DAYS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ELECTION OUTCOME IS, WHETHER THOSE VOTES WILL BE COUNTED, WHETHER CERTIFIED AND WHAT KIND OF DELAYS THERE WILL BE.

THIS WEEK, THERE WAS SOME INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT ABOUT THE GEORGIA STATE ELECTION BOARD, AND THIS IS OTHERWISE A PRETTY OBSCURE, SMALL KIND OF GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WORK QUIETLY, BUT YOU KNOW, JUST RECENTLY AT A RALLY FOR THE FORMER PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT TRUMP NAME-CHECKED THREE OF THE FIVE OF THESE MEMBERS WHO, YOU KNOW, LOVE AND SUPPORT HIM.

I MEAN, I GUESS -- TELL OUR AUDIENCE, WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

AND WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

>> YEAH, SO, WHAT HAPPENED IN GEORGIA IS -- I THINK THE BEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT IS TO GO BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th, BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAW ON THAT DAY WAS A MASSIVE PRESSURE CAMPAIGN LEVIED AT FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE TO USE HIS ROLE AS VICE PRESIDENT IN CERTIFYING ELECTIONS TO SOMEHOW TAKE THAT DUTY AND USE IT AS A MEANS TO DELAY, OBSTRUCT, OR BLOCK THE CERTIFICATION OF JOE BIDEN AS PRESIDENT.

AND THE WORD THAT A LOT OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYERS LIKE TO THROW AROUND AND ULTIMATELY WERE CONVINCING WITH HIM TO GO AND DO THE RIGHT THING IS, YOU HAVE A MINISTERIAL DUTY TO JUST COUNT, OPEN UP THE RESULTS FROM THE STATES, SEE WHAT HAPPENED, AND CERTIFY THE RESULTS.

AND SO, WHAT YOU SEE HAPPENING AT A LOCAL LEVEL, NOT JUST IN GEORGIA, BUT IT HAS HAPPENED IN OTHER PLACES, AS WELL, IS THAT THERE ARE OTHER OFFICIALS WHO LOOK AT THAT CERTIFICATION, THAT MINISTERIAL ROLE AND SAY, OKAY, WELL, MAYBE THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO MORE THAN JUST COUNT THE VOTES HERE.

AND SO, WHAT HAPPENED IN GEORGIA IS THAT THIS BOARD OF ELECTIONS CREATED A RULE TO SAY THAT COUNTY OFFICIALS AT THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS CAN CONDUCT A, QUOTE, REASONABLE INQUIRY INTO THE RESULTS.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE KIND OF CHANGING THE ROLE OF WHAT A CERTIFICATION BOARD WAS SUPPOSED TO DO, I MEAN, IN A SPORTS ANALOGY, IT'S LIKE A SCOREKEEPER VERSUS A REFEREE.

BUT NOW, IF THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE INQUIRIES, THAT KIND OF ALMOST MAKES THEM THE INSTANT REPLAY ROOM, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IT'S A DIFFERENT CHANGE.

AND I WONDER, IS THAT EVEN LEGAL?

>> NO.

SO, THIS IS A THING THAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER.

SO, THE REASON WHY, LIKE, THEY DO HAVE TO TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY, BUT IT IS NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH GEORGIA STATE LAW, AND WHAT OTHER KINDS OF LAWS THAT OTHER STATES ALSO HAVE ON THE BOOKS.

AND THE REASON WHY FOR THIS IS THAT IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE ELECTION, OR JUST ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED, THERE ARE PROCESSES SET INTO PLACE TO DO THIS.

THAT'S WHERE YOU SEE THINGS LIKE RECOUNTS COME INTO PLAY.

LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THE ELECTION.

CANVASES.

THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT YOU NEED THE CERTIFICATION TO TAKE PLACE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

YOU NEED A BASELINE COUNT TO GO FROM SO THAT THEN A CHALLENGE CAN BE MADE IF THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

BUT THE THING THAT IS JUST REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER HERE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE REASON WHY WE HAVE ALL THESE PROCESSES AND DEADLINES IS SO THE RIGHTFUL WINNER OF THE ELECTION CAN TAKE OFFICE, BECAUSE IF WE OPENED UP THE CERTIFICATION, PANDORA'S BOX, YOU KNOW, AT ALL THESE COUNTY LEVELS, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANYONE TO EVER ASSUME OFFICE.

SO, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ALL THESE DEADLINES.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WHEN ALL THE STATES HAVE TO SEND THEIR RESULTS TO CONGRESS IN MID-JANUARY, AND THEN WE HAVE THAT CERTIFICATION PROCESS WITH ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6th.

I MEAN, THERE'S A VERY STREAMLINED ORDER AND CADENCE OF EVENTS THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

SO, IF PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE IDEA THAT THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS SHOULD BE A STEP WHERE YOU CAN USE IT TO DELAY THE RESULTS, IT'S A REALLY BAD IDEA.

>> THERE WAS A RECENT "ROLLING STONE" ARTICLE A WEEK OR SO AGO, AND IT TALKED ABOUT ELECTION DENIERS, PEOPLE WHO DO NOT THINK THAT JOE BIDEN IS THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, THE RIGHTFUL PRESIDENT, WHO HAVE TAKEN ROLES, HAVE BEEN APPOINTED TO ROLES IN KEY BATTLEGROUND STATES.

DOZENS OF THEM.

AND I WONDER, WHEN DID THIS SORT OF AN OTHERWISE MINISTERIAL ROLE BECOME SO POLITICALLY HEATED?

THIS WAS NOT -- THIS WAS SOMETHING PEOPLE WOULD VOLUNTEER TO DO AND WE WOULD KIND OF THANK THEM FOR DOING THEIR CIVIC DUTY, AND NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE'S JUST A LOT MORE AT STAKE.

>> YEAH, THERE'S DEFINITELY A LOT AT STAKE.

AND I THINK IT'S A LOT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, BECAUSE THEY DO OPEN THEMSELVES UP, I MEAN, THIS ISN'T A GOOD THING BY ANY MEANS, TO BECOMING TARGETS.

AND WE REALLY SAW A LOT OF THIS HAPPEN IN THE 2020 ELECTION.

YES, THERE WAS THIS PRESSURE CAMPAIGN AIMED SQUARELY AT MIKE PENCE TO GET HIM TO NOT PERFORM HIS MINISTERIAL DUTY.

WE'RE SEEING THAT PLAY OUT.

BUT YOU ALSO SAW PRESSURE CAMPAIGNS AIMED AT JUST REGULAR PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, ELECTION WORKERS THAT LATER ENDED UP TESTIFYING TO THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE, LIKE RUBY FREEMAN AND SHAYE MOSS, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST REGULAR PEOPLE DOING THEIR JOBS, OFTEN IN A VOLUNTEER CAPACITY, BEING TARGETED BY A LOT OF BAD FAITH ACTORS.

AND SO, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT HAS HAPPENED AS A RESULT OF THOSE ELECTION DENIAL CONSPIRACIES, AND I THINK -- I THINK THERE'S A BIG GAP, RIGHT?

BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED, AND THEY THINK, THERE HASN'T BEEN ACCOUNTABILITY, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THAT STEP WITH THE PERSON WHO CALLED A LOT OF THIS INTO ACTION, WHO WAS DONALD TRUMP, BUT GOING DOWN THE LINE, I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FRAUDULENT ELECTORS SCHEME, IF YOU LOOK AT PEOPLE LIKE -- I'M THINKING OF THE ATTORNEYS IN MICHIGAN THAT TRIED TO TAMPER WITH VOTING EQUIPMENT, AND THE POINT IS, YOU KNOW, THE DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS THAT THIS HAS HAD, THE PEOPLE THAT WENT DOWN THIS ROUTE, HAVE HAD A VERY HARD ROAD, RIGHT?

AND SO, THAT IS THE KIND OF DETERRENT EFFECT THAT WE NEED.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED THE RULE OF LAW TO BE IN PLACE TO UPHOLD THESE THINGS AND UPHOLD THESE PROCESSES.

SO, ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE THE LARGEST VOTER TURNOUT ELECTION EVER AGAIN, DESPITE ALL OF THIS, WE HAVE INCREDIBLE VOTER TURNOUT, SO, WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE FAITH IN THE PROCESS, WHO DO WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN IT, AND A BIG PART OF THAT IS MAKING SURE THERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WHEN PEOPLE DO GET THESE IDEAS ABOUT, WELL, MAYBE I CAN PLAY GAMES WITH THE CERTIFICATION, WE HAVE PEOPLE TALKING TO THEM, LIKE, MY COLLEAGUES AT PROTECT DEMOCRACY DO, AND JUST SAY, THIS IS WHAT THE LAW SAYS.

THIS IS A DANGEROUS GAME.

>> AMANDA, JUST THIS WEEK, THERE WAS A FORMER CLERK IN COLORADO NAMED TINA PETERS WHO WAS FOUND GUILTY BY A JURY OF HER PEERS, THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST ELECTION OFFICIALS TO BE CHARGED WITH A SECURITY BREACH AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION.

I GUESS -- WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, NUMBER ONE, I WOULD SAY, IT IS A GOOD THING THAT THE RULE OF LAW HAS HELD.

YOU THINK ABOUT HOW LONG AGO THIS HAPPENED, AND HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR THIS CONVICTION TO FINALLY BE SECURED, THAT DOES SEEM LIKE THE LAW OF JUSTICE TAKES A LONG TIME, BUT ULTIMATELY, IT DOES CATCH UP.

BUT SECONDLY, IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

THIS WOMAN WAS CLEARLY CAUGHT UP IN A CONSPIRACY OF LIES THAT WERE PROMOTED, YOU KNOW, BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND PEOPLE LIKE MIKE LINDELL, WHO SHE WAS, YOU KNOW, JUST BY ACCOUNT OF THE PROSECUTORS IN THAT CASE, SHE WAS REALLY CAUGHT IN TRYING TO FIND THIS FRAUD THAT THEY PROMISED SHE WOULD FIND, IF ONLY SHE WOULD DO THESE THINGS.

AND IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT SHE WENT THROUGH AND DID THESE THINGS.

BUT IT IS -- IT SHOULD BE A DETERRENT FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO MAY BE CONSIDERING FUTURE ACTION LIKE THIS, AND THAT YOU WILL NOT BE A HERO TO A CERTAIN CONSERVATIVE BASE.

ULTIMATELY, YOU WILL BE RISKING JAIL, WHICH IS SAD.

>> I WANT TO GET A LITTLE BIT TO THE WORK THAT PROTECT DEMOCRACY DOES.

YOU ARE -- YOU KNOW, YOU CALL YOURSELF A NONPARTISAN ORGANIZATION, AND YOU ARE STEADFASTLY ANTI-AUTHORITARIANISM, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE SORT OF ALL CAN AGREE ON.

YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ELECTION OFFICIALS RIGHT NOW.

WHAT ARE THEIR PRIMARY CONCERNS GOING INTO THIS ELECTION CYCLE?

WHAT ARE THE KIND OF THE MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, AND WHAT ARE THE ANSWERS YOU'RE GIVING THEM?

>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE WORK THAT HAPPENS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL IS JUST, YOU KNOW, NUTS AND BOLTS EDUCATION ABOUT WHAT THE PROCESSES ARE, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU ARE POSSIBLY TARGETED WITH ONE OF THESE BAD FAITH ACTORS, WHAT RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE TO YOU, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OUR DEMOCRACY DEPENDS ON, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST VOLUNTEERING THEIR TIME.

WORKING IN JOBS WHERE, YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES THEY'RE NOT FAIRLY COMPENSATED, THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE COMPENSATION, YOU KNOW, THAT THE HOURS WOULD LEAD TO.

I MEAN, WE THINK ABOUT THESE ELECTION OFFICIALS, WE THINK OF A LOT OF PEOPLE VOLUNTEERING AT THE POLLS, THEY JUST WANT RESOURCES.

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT'S HAPPENING ON YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE?

YOU KNOW, WHO CAN I GO TO FOR HELP?

WHAT ARE -- WHAT DOES THE LAW INSTRUCT ME TO DO SO THAT I CAN GO BACK TO MY COMMUNITY AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT THE RULES ARE.

THIS IS WHAT I CAN DO.

AND THIS IS HOW YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCESS.

SO, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN ANYTHING, IT'S JUST NUTS AND BOLTS EDUCATION, NETWORKING WITH EACH OTHER, LETTING THEM KNOW WHAT RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM, IF THEY ENCOUNTER PROBLEMS, AND JUST -- THE REAL BASIC KIND OF STUFF, BUT YOU CAN'T OVERLOOK IT, BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE LEARNED, WHEN YOU COME UNDER ATTACK, WHICH IS A NEW THING WITH OUR ELECTIONS, WE ARE FACING THINGS FROM THE POLITICAL CLASS AND SOCIAL MEDIA, THERE'S A LOT OF NOISE.

ONCE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ALONE IN THIS, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE HELP AND WE'RE ACTUALLY NOT ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, THAT'S WHEN IT'S EASY TO LOOK AWAY.

WE NEED THE GOOD GUYS TO STAY ON THE FIELD.

WE CAN'T ABANDON OUR VOTING BOOTHS.

WE CAN'T ABANDON THIS BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE ROCKY.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH GOOD INTENTIONS THAT WANT THE GOOD THINGS TO HAPPEN THAT KEEP THIS THING GOING.

AND SO, IT'S BEEN REALLY WE REGARDING.

>> WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THERE HAS BEEN NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD IN THE 2020 ELECTION, AND I'M WONDERING -- THIS IS A NARRATIVE THAT, AT LEAST THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SEEMS TO CONTINUE TO PUSH, THAT IT IS ALMOST, YOU KNOW, A FOREGONE CONCLUSION IN THE MINDS OF SOME CONSERVATIVES THAT THIS ELECTION WILL BE STOLEN.

IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT?

>> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW AFTER WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS IN 2016 AND 2020, I THINK PEOPLE ARE LARGELY WISE TO THE GAME THAT THIS IS POLITICAL GAMESMANSHIP IN A LOT OF RESPECTS, AND THE ONE BRIGHT SPOT OF LIGHT THAT I'VE SEEN IS THE -- I THINK THE REPUBLICANS GOING BACK TO SUPPORTING THE MAIL-IN BALLOT.

IN 2020, THERE WAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE TO MAIL-IN VOTING, WHICH IS A WONDERFUL, NECESSARY OPTION FOR PEOPLE WHO CANNOT GET TO THE POLLS ON ELECTION DAY, THAT MIGHT BE BECAUSE YOU ARE DISABLED, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO WORK, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO KIDS YOU GOT TO TAKE CARE OF AT HOME, THE PROSPECT OF DRAGGING THEM TO BOOTH AND STAND IN LINE FOR EIGHT HOURS IS REALLY TOO MUCH TO CONTEMPLATE.

OR MAYBE YOU CAN'T STAND IN LINE FOR EIGHT HOURS ON ELECTION DAY, RIGHT?

LOOK, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT ABLE TO DO THAT, LET ALONE HAVE THE TIME TO DO IT.

AND SO, I THINK THERE'S RECOGNITION NOW THAT, YES, MAIL-IN VOTING IS A SAFE AND SECURE OPTION, AND SO, THAT'S ONE POINT OF PROGRESS.

>> IT SEEMS THAT THE ATTACK BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT ON ELECTION WORKERS AND THE INSTITUTION OF HOW BOARD CERTIFIED ELECTIONS, SO FORTH, JUST KIND OF ONE PART OF IT.

WHEN HE HAS ATTACKED THE JUDICIARY REPEATEDLY, WHEN HE FINDS JUDGES TAKING DECISIONS OR LOOKING AT THINGS UNFAVORABLY TOWARDS HIM.

AND I WONDER, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT DOES OVER TIME, WHEN WE START TO LOSE FAITH IN INSTITUTIONS LIKE WHAT SECURES OUR VOTE, OR THE JUDICIARY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS A LOT OF THE WORK THAT WE DO AT PROTECT DEMOCRACY, IN TALKING ABOUT WHY A TRUMP SECOND TERM REALLY DOES POSE AN AUTHORITARIAN THREAT.

AND THAT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE OF POLICY DIFFERENCES.

IT REALLY GETS AT THE WAYS THAT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES IMAGINE IN A SECOND TERM OF SYSTEMATICALLY GUTTING THE CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT CONSTRAIN A PRESIDENCY.

AND THE REASON WHY THEY'RE SO FOCUSED ON THAT IS SO THAT THEY CAN ENACT THIS AUTHORITARIAN AGENDA.

AND I'LL JUST WALK THROUGH THAT REALLY QUICKLY, BECAUSE IT'S AN ARGUMENT THAT I TALK TO A LOT OF MY REPUBLICAN FRIENDS ABOUT, LIKE, WHY THIS IS DIFFERENT.

WHY IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF TAX POLICY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND THE WAY THAT THE MOVEMENT HAS NOW COALESCED AROUND A VERSION OF TRUMPISM THAT REALLY ADVOCATES FOR AGGRESSIVE EXPANDED EXECUTIVE POWER HINGES ON GUTTING OUR CHECKS AND BALANCES AS ENVISIONED BY THE CONSTITUTION.

AND THE TOP OF WHICH IS THE COURTS.

AND THE THING THAT IS REALLY BIG, YOU KNOW, CONCERN, IF NOT SETBACK IS THE SUPREME COURT'S RECENT RULING THAT A PRESIDENT SHOULD ENJOY IMMUNITY OVER OFFICIAL ACTS.

YOU KNOW, TBD WHAT THOSE OFFICIAL ACTS TECHNICALLY MEAN, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, IT CERTAINLY MEANS THAT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE CLEAR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR TRUMP FOR JANUARY 6th BEFORE THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

THE NEXT CHECK OUT OF TRUMP 2.0 WOULD BE THE CONGRESS.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT HOW REPUBLICANS SEEK TO ENABLE AND COVER UP AND ENCOURAGE HIS BEHAVIOR, AT LEAST IN THE TWO IMPEACHMENTS, WHEN IT CAME TO JANUARY 6th AND HIS ILLEGAL HOLDUP OF THE FUNDING FOR UKRAINE, YOU SAW THAT REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS WERE NOT WILLING TO ACT AS A MEANINGFUL CHECK ON EXECUTIVE ABUSES OF POWER, AND SO, IT'S -- REALLY OPTIMISTIC, TO SAY THE LEAST, TO THINK THAT SOMEHOW THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT BEHAVIOR IN A SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

AND THEN, THIRD, YOU SEE THE PLAN THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS THAT ARE ENCOURAGED BY HIS ALLIES AT HERITAGE FOUNDATION THROUGH THINGS LIKE PROJECT 2025 TO GUT THE CIVIL SERVICE.

THAT IS ESSENTIALLY, YOU HEAR ABOUT PROPOSALS LIKE SCHEDULE F, TO GO AFTER ANY KIND OF CAREER SERVANTS AND REPLACE THEM WITH LOYALISTS.

I MEAN, THESE ARE PEOPLE -- THIS IS -- THEY ARE OFTEN DESCRIBED IN A DEROGATORY MANNER AS THE DEEP STATE, BUT THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAKE FEMA WORK.

AND SO, THIS GOES DOWN A VERY BAD ROAD VERY QUICKLY WITH DEEP DOWNSTREAM IMPACTS, IF YOU DO SUDDENLY START WIPING OUT THE CIVIL SERVICE AND REPLACING THEM WITH LOYALISTS IN WAYS THAT IMPACT PEOPLE THAT GO BEYOND, YOU KNOW, HIS PROMISES OF RETRIBUTION TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE AND WEAPONIZE THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

>> I WONDER, WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS HEADING INTO THIS ELECTION?

DO YOU THINK WE'LL HAVE A CERTIFIED, DECLARED WINNER LATE INTO THE NIGHT THAT NIGHT OF ELECTIONS THAT WE'VE HAD KIND OF THAT EXPERIENCE OVER THE YEARS?

BUT -- OR DO YOU THINK THAT THIS COULD BE STALLED AND DELAYED BECAUSE OF INDIVIDUALS ON STATE ELECTION BOARDS OR SOMEWHERE ELSE DOWN THE LINE?

>> IF WE ARE VIGILANT, I'M OPTIMISTIC.

I MEAN, THE TRADITIONS OF OUR COUNTRY IS THAT WE DO HOLD STATES SECURE, FAIR ELECTIONS, WHERE WE HAVE CLEAR WINNERS.

2020 WAS A DISRUPTION OF THAT.

I'M NOT DOWNPLAYING THE TERRIBLE THINGS THAT HAPPENED, BUT THE SYSTEM DID HOLD.

AND AS A RESULT OF THIS -- JUST THE HORRIFYING IMAGES WE SAW, THE TESTIMONY FROM THE BRAVE CAPITOL AND WASHINGTON, D.C. POLICE OFFICERS WHO CONTINUE TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT THE ACTUAL REALITY OF WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT DAY, I -- I REALLY DO BELIEVE A LOT OF PEOPLE EYES HAVE OPENED.

THEY'VE RECONSIDERED A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT WHO THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT -- HOW THEY MAY POSSIBLY PARTICIPATE IN POLITICS IN THE FUTURE, AND SO, YES, THERE'S GOOD REASON TO BE OPTIMISTIC, BUT I WOULDN'T BE WORKING THE JOB THAT I DO TODAY IF I THOUGHT IT WAS A SURE THING.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S A SURE THING.

I BELIEVE THAT WE ALL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY IN THIS PROCESS.

WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT.

WE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT AND EDUCATE AND UPHOLD EACH OTHER ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE THE RULE OF LAW IN OUR COUNTRY.

AND WHAT KIND OF COMMITMENT IT REALLY TAKES FROM ALL OF US TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THIS GREAT, BEAUTIFUL AMERICAN EXPERIMENT WORK.

>> AMANDA CARPENTER FROM PROTECT DEMOCRACY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, 12 YEARS MISSING, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN.

TODAY MARKS A HEARTBREAKING MILESTONE FOR AUSTIN TICE, AN AMERICAN FREELANCE JOURNALIST WHO IS PRESUMED TO BE HELD CAPTIVE IN SYRIA.

TICE WAS CAPTURED IN DAMASCUS IN 2012, COVERING THE CIVIL WAR THERE FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST."

HIS PARENTS HAVE BEEN TIRELESS ADVOCATES, CALLING ON THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO COOPERATE WITH THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT TO BRING HIM HOME.

SHORTLY AFTER HIS CAPTURE, I SPOKE WITH HIS PARENTS, AND HIS MOTHER TOLD ME WHY HE UNDERTOOK SUCH DANGERS TO GIVE VOICE TO THE VOICELESS.

>> HE WANTS THEIR STORY TO BE TOLD.

HE WANTS THEM TO HAVE THEIR STORY AND TO BELIEVE -- IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO AUSTIN FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A DREAM AND TO BELIEVE THEY CAN ACHIEVE IT AND TO TAKE STEPS TO DO THAT.

>> TODAY, PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID THAT HE STOOD IN SOLIDARITY WITH AUSTIN'S FAMILY AND CALLED ON THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE HIS IMMEDIATE RELEASE.

FRESH OFF THE DEAL WITH RUSSIA THAT FREED ANOTHER AMERICAN JOURNALIST, EVAN GERSHKOVICH, THE PRESIDENT SAID, "THE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS IS ESSENTIAL," ADDING, "JOURNALISTS LIKE AUSTIN PLAY A CRITICAL ROLE INFORMING THE PUBLIC AND HOLDING THOSE IN POWER ACCOUNTABLE."

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

♪♪♪