“A Trump Foil:” Inside Kamala Harris’ Political Evolution

>>> AND WE RETURN NOW TO OUR TOP STORY, WITH DEMOCRATS GETTING READY TO OFFICIALLY NOMINATE KAMALA HARRIS AS THE PARTY'S PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

IN A RECENT ARTICLE, "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER LIZ GOODWIN EXPLORED HOW THE VICE PRESIDENT'S ROLE ON SEVERAL POWERFUL SENATE COMMITTEES SHAPE HER TODAY.

SHE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO EXPLAIN ALL OF THAT.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

LIZ GOODWIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU STARTED COVERING KAMALA HARRIS WHEN SHE FIRST WENT TO THE SENATE.

WHAT ABOUT HER CAUGHT YOUR EYE?

WHY DID YOU START FOCUSING ON HER IN PARTICULAR?

>> SHE REALLY STOOD OUT AT THE TIME.

A LOT OF TIMES FRESHMEN SENATORS, THEY'RE SORT OF NERVOUS.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE BEEN ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

AND THAT WAS TRUE OF KAMALA HARRIS AS WELL, BUT SHE JUST DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME CAUTION OR NERVES THAT A LOT OF FRESHMAN SENATORS HAD.

SHE IMMEDIATELY SPOKE AT THE WOMEN'S MARCH.

SHE HAD THIS VERY HIGH PROFILE FROM DAY ONE, AND PEOPLE WERE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT HER AS A POTENTIAL PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER.

SO JUST THAT AURA OF SORT OF GLAMOUR AND DISCUSSION AROUND HER MADE HER REALLY STAND OUT.

>> I'M WONDERING IF IN PART SHE STOOD OUT BECAUSE SHE WAS ELECTED TO THE SENATE THE SAME YEAR DONALD TRUMP WAS ELECTED TO THE PRESIDENCY.

BUT I'M WONDERING IF IN PART THE ATTENTION WAS FOCUSED ON HER BECAUSE SHE WAS SEEN EVEN THEN AS THE ANTI-TRUMP.

SHE WAS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT -- OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP PRESENTED HIMSELF AS WHEN HE BECAME PRESIDENT.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S KIND OF PART OF IT?

>> FOR SURE.

I THINK KAMALA HARRIS GETTING ELECTED THE SAME DAY AS DONALD TRUMP REALLY WHEN SHE WAS EXPECTING TO BE SERVING WITH THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT, RIGHT?

SHE BECAME THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN ELECTED IN CALIFORNIA TO THE SENATE, AND SHE THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE THIS OTHER BARRIER-BREAKING LIBERAL WOMAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND INSTEAD DONALD TRUMP IS ELECTED.

LIBERALS ARE SHOCKED.

I MEAN EVERYONE WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THE POLLING HAD PREDICTED.

BUT LIBERALS WERE ALSO VERY CONCERNED.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS GOING TO BE LIKE.

AND THEY WERE REALLY LOOKING TO NEW LEADERS IN THE PARTY TO GUIDE THEM THROUGH THAT MOMENT.

AND KAMALA HARRIS BECAME ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE INCREDIBLY QUICKLY.

>> SO HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

>> SO I THINK ONE THING THAT HARRIS CAME EQUIPPED WITH AS A FRESHMAN SENATOR WAS HER RHETORICAL ABILITY, HER SPEAKING SKILLS.

THEY WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, ABOVE AVERAGE, TO SAY THE LEAST, FOR SOMEONE SO NEW TO THE NATIONAL STAGE.

AND IN THE SENATE, SHE REALLY MADE HER NAME WITH THESE COMMITTEE HEARINGS WHERE SHE WOULD BE QUESTIONING TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS IN A VERY AGGRESSIVE STYLE THAT SHE LEARNED IN COURTROOMS, RIGHT.

AND IT REALLY MADE HER STAND OUT.

SO EVEN THOUGH SHE WOULD BE THE LAST PERSON TO ASK QUESTIONS BECAUSE SHE WAS THE NEWEST SENATOR, BY THEN IT'S VERY HARD TO MAKE ANY NEWS.

EVERYONE HAS ALREADY ASKED ALL THE GOOD QUESTIONS.

BUT SHE REALLY MADE A POINT TO THINK ABOUT HOW SHE COULD ATTACK SOME QUESTIONS THAT HADN'T BEEN ASKED YET.

SHE PREPARED VERY LENGTHY PREPARATION SESSIONS.

SHE REALLY TOOK THAT PART OF THE JOB SERIOUSLY, AND IT PAID OFF BECAUSE IT WOULD LEAD TO THESE SORT OF VIRAL CLIPS OF HER QUESTIONING PEOPLE LIKE JEFF SESSIONS OR BRETT KAVANAUGH.

AND I THINK THAT ALSO KIND OF LAUNCHED HER MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN YOUR AVERAGE SENATOR OR POLITICIAN.

>> WHAT WAS HER REPUTATION WHEN SHE WAS SAN FRANCISCO DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL?

>> YEAH, I THINK PEOPLE THOUGHT OF HER AS, YOU KNOW, A FORCE AND HAVING A LOT OF CHARISMA.

SHE ALREADY HAD THAT REPUTATION RUNNING STATEWIDE IN CALIFORNIA.

HER CHIEF OF STAFF IN THE SENATE CAME WITH HER FROM THE AG'S OFFICE.

AND HE SAID SOMETHING THAT REALLY STOOD OUT TO HIM ABOUT HER ALWAYS IS THAT SHE CAN REALLY READ A ROOM.

SO SHE HAS A LOT OF EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE, WHICH NOT ALL POLITICIANS DO, SURPRISINGLY.

IT WAS A BIG CHANGE FOR HER FROM BEING AG, BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING THIS BIG OFFICE.

YOU'RE IN CHARGE.

YOU'RE MAKING THESE DECISIONS, VERY HIGH-LEVEL DECISIONS.

AND IN THE SENATE, YOU'RE ONE OF 100.

AND EVERYONE SORT OF SEES THEMSELVES AS A STAR.

THERE IS A LOT OF BIG PERSONALITIES, AND YOU'RE THE LOWEST ON THE TOTEM POLE AS A FRESHMAN IN PARTICULAR.

AND THAT WAS A TOUGH SHIFT FOR HER FROM BEING AN EXECUTIVE TO A LEGISLATOR.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WAS REALLY INSIGHTFUL IF YOUR PIECE IS YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW SHE WAS USED TO A VERY HIGH LEVEL OF PREPARATION FOR BEING IN COURT.

AND GIVEN ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE THROWN AT YOU IN THE CONGRESS, THE SCHEDULE, THE COMMITTEES, THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING THAT SHE FOUND THAT A SOURCE OF FRUSTRATION.

BUT BEYOND THAT, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER WAYS THAT SHE ADAPTED TO THAT?

>> YEAH, SHE DEFINITELY STRUGGLED WITH WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THIS LEVEL OF PREPARATION.

THE FACT THAT YOU COULDN'T KNOW EVERYTHING ANYMORE, BECAUSE THE ISSUE SET THAT YOU'RE GIVEN AS A SENATOR IS JUST ENDLESS.

SHE TOOK MORE NATURALLY TO BEING IN THESE COMMITTEES AND ASKING QUESTIONS AND DEMANDING ACCOUNTABILITY, BECAUSE THAT WAS REALLY ALREADY IN HER SKILL SET.

WHEN IT CAME TO LEGISLATING, SHE WAS ONLY IN THE SENATE FOR FOUR YEARS, AND SHE WAS IN THE MINORITY THE WHOLE TIME.

SO THAT'S USUALLY NOT A GOOD ATMOSPHERE FOR PRODUCING BIG BIPARTISAN DEALS OR THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

BUT EVEN FOR THAT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, SHE DIDN'T SEEM AS INTERESTED IN LEGISLATING.

, AIDES SAY AND FELLOW SENATORS SAY.

SHE DID MANAGE TO GET THROUGH SOME PIECES OF LEGISLATION AND PUT OUT HER OWN AGENDA, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE HER PASSION, ESSENTIALLY, IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR HER SAY.

>> WHAT WAS HER PASSION?

WHAT IS HER PASSION, AT LEAST AS FAR AS YOU CAN GLEAN FROM THE WORK SHE DID IN THE SENATE?

>> I WOULD SAY THESE MOMENTS OF HOLDING TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE WAS MUCH MORE HER PASSION.

LIKE THE AMOUNT OF PREP THAT SHE WOULD PUT INTO IT WAS REALLY ABOVE AND BEYOND EVEN FOR THE SENATE, FOR THE BRETT KAVANAUGH HEARING SHE HAD HER USUAL STAFFERS PREPPING HER.

AND THEN THEY ALSO BROUGHT IN SUPREME COURT CLERKS, BECAUSE SHE KNEW THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO REALLY VET QUESTIONS AND THINK ABOUT HOW SOMEONE LIKE BRETT KAVANAUGH WOULD ANSWER THEM.

SO SHE REALLY SPENT A TON OF ENERGY IN MAKING SURE THAT SHE WAS COMING TO THOSE COMMITTEES READY, AND READY TO SORT OF MAKE NEWS AND BREAK GROUND.

I THINK SHE ALSO FORMED RELATIONSHIPS WITH FELLOW SENATORS THAT IS HELPING HER NOW.

A LOT OF THEM, MOST OF THEM CAME OUT IMMEDIATELY AFTER PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID HE WAS STEPPING ASIDE TO SUPPORT HER.

AND I THINK THAT HAVING THAT WELL OF SUPPORT IS HELPING HER NOW.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT WITH HER REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES?

THEY KIND OF IMPLIED THAT SHE WASN'T REALLY INTERESTED IN LEGISLATING.

THAT WAS KIND OF THE THROUGH-LINE OF THE COMMENTS THAT REPUBLICANS MADE ABOUT HER.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO SAY?

>> YEAH, I THINK JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS THERE FOR SUCH A SHORT TIME BEFORE SHE RAN FOR PRESIDENT, THAT GAVE PEOPLE THE IMPRESSION THAT WHAT SHE WAS DOING THOSE FIRST TWO YEARS WAS MORE POSITIONING FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL RUN THAN TRYING TO GET THINGS DONE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SHE HAD SIGNED ON TO BERNIE SANDERS' MEDICARE FOR ALL BILL WHICH SHE LATER SAID SHE DID NOT SUPPORT.

SHE BACKED OFF OF THAT.

BUT THERE WERE KIND OF THESE LITMUS TEST ISSUES THAT WERE GOING ON THAT WERE LATER GOING TO FEED INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AND THE DEMOCRATS WERE VERY MUCH IN A CONVERSATION WITH THEMSELVES ABOUT CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM, ABOUT HEALTH CARE, ABOUT IMMIGRATION THAT HAD NO BEARING IN REALITY AT ALL BECAUSE IT WAS A UNIFIED REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT AT THE TIME.

SO I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF FAIR TO SAY THAT SHE WAS LOCKED IN THAT KIND OF CONVERSATION FOR MUCH OF HER TIME IN THE SENATE AND DIDN'T REALLY -- IT WASN'T GOING TO LEAD TO ANY LEGISLATION BECAUSE OF THE DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.

>> SO NOW GOING TO WHERE HER STINT AS VICE PRESIDENT.

THE CRITICISM OF HER AS VICE PRESIDENT, AND THAT'S NOT JUST ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, YOU KNOW, AS SORT OF ATTACK LINES, BUT ALSO SOME OF THE REPORTERS WHO KIND OF COVERED HER AS VICE PRESIDENT HAVE SAID THAT SHE NEVER REALLY LOCKED IN TO ANYTHING THAT SHE COULD IDENTIFY AS A SUCCESS.

THE ARGUMENT IS THAT SHE HASN'T REALLY IDENTIFIED WHAT SHE WOULD DO AS AN EXECUTIVE.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR, BASED ON YOUR COVERAGE OF HER IN THE SENATE?

>> I DO THINK THAT WOULD BE A FAIR WAY THE DESCRIBE SOME OF HER SENATE YEARS AS WELL.

BUT IT'S ALSO WITH THE BIG CAVEAT THAT IT WAS ONLY FOUR YEARS.

SO MOST PEOPLE DEVELOP A SENATE RECORD AT LEAST OVER SIX YEARS, RIGHT.

AND MUCH LENGTHIER THAN THAT FOR MOST OF THE PEOPLE I COVER.

AND IT REALLY TAKES A WHILE TO GET SETTLED YOUR HONOR COMMITTEE AND FIND YOUR INTEREST AREAS AND BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

IT REALLY TAKES A LOT OF RELATIONSHIP BUILDING TO GET ANYTHING LIKE SUBSTANTIVE DONE BIPARTISAN.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S FAIR TO SAY SHE DIDN'T REALLY DO MUCH.

SHE DIDN'T GET ANY MAJOR LAW PASSED DURING HER TIME, BUT I WAS ALSO FOUR YEARS WHEN SHE WAS IN THE MINORITY.

SO IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT THAT WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE HAD SHE HAD A FULL SENATE CAREER.

THAT SAID, HER AIDES SAID IT WASN'T REALLY HER HAPPY PLACE ANY WAY.

SHE KIND OF WANTED TO BE BACK IN THE EXECUTIVE CHAIR WHICH SHE WAS AS VICE PRESIDENT.

AND WHEN YOU'RE VICE PRESIDENT IT'S MORE ABOUT BEING PRAGMATIC, TRYING TO MANAGE THINGS WELL, TRYING TO MAKE SMALL IMPROVEMENTS ON THE MARGINS AS AN EXECUTIVE.

AND I THINK THAT'S A BETTER FIT FOR HER SORT OF STYLE.

>> WAS HARRIS EVER FRUSTRATED BY WHAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD SEE AS HER LACK OF VISIBILITY IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION?

JUST OVERALL, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A SENSE THAT SHE WAS NOT THE KEY PLAYER THAT SHE COULD HAVE BEEN, OR THAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE JOE BIDEN WAS IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION?

>> TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I DON'T THINK SHE FELT THAT SHE WANTED TO PLAY MORE OF A ROLE ON THE HILL SPECIFICALLY, THAT SHE WANTED TO BE, YOU KNOW, MORE OF THAT ROLE THAT BIDEN HAD WHERE HE WOULD GO OVER THERE AND NEGOTIATE THESE BIG BILLS.

I DON'T GET THE SENSE SHE WANTED TO BE THERE HASHING OUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND SHE WAS ABLE TO KIND OF PICK HER SPOTS WHEN IT CAME TO BEING THE VOICE OF RESPONDING TO ROE V. WADE, WHICH NOW, EVEN THOUGH SHE WASN'T GETTING THAT MUCH ATTENTION FOR IT, YOU SEE IT NOW THAT HER MESSAGE ON THAT IS SO SHARP, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHE'S BEEN DOING FOR TWO YEARS IS OWNING THAT ISSUE.

SO, YEAH, MY SENSE IS SHE DIDN'T FEEL OVERSHADOWED WHEN IT CAME TO THE HILL IN PARTICULAR.

I DON'T KNOW IF SHE FELT OVERSHADOWED IN OTHER WAYS, IF SHE FELT SHE COULD BE BETTER UTILIZED ON OTHER FRONTS, THOUGH.

>> YOU KNOW, HER OWN PRESIDENTIAL RUN WAS WIDELY SEEN AS A BUST.

AND PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF WHY.

BUT IN THE COURSE OF YOUR REPORTING, DID THAT COME UP?

>> YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE ISSUE WITH THAT PRIMARY WAS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER WHERE DEMOCRATS WERE TRYING TO KIND OF RACE TO THE LEFT IN A LOT OF WAYS TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES FROM EACH OTHER AND FROM TRUMP.

LIKE WHO CAN BE THE MOST ANTI-TRUMP DEMOCRAT, WHO CAN HAVE THE HEALTH CARE PLAN THAT'S THE MOST LIBERAL, SO YOU'RE THE BEST LIBERAL.

AND JOE BIDEN SORT OF NEVER ENGAGED IN THAT GAME BECAUSE HE WAS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, I'M THE VICE PRESIDENT.

I AM WHO I AM.

AND HE ALSO BEGAN TO SEEM SORT OF LIKE THE SAFE CHOICE.

I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF ANXIETY ABOUT THE IDEA OF PICKING ANOTHER WOMAN AFTER 2016, MUCH LESS A BLACK WOMAN BECAUSE HILLARY HAD LOST AND SOME PEOPLE HAD FELT MAYBE THAT WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS TOO MUCH OF A GAMBLE JUST ON THE GENDER PORTION ALONE.

SO I THINK DEMOCRATS WERE ALSO GOING THROUGH A LOT OF FEAR AND RATIONALIZATIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN 2016 AND WANT KIND OF A SAFE SURE THING.

AND KAMALA HARRIS NEVER REALLY SEEMED LIKE SHE WAS THAT.

>> AND NOW, I MEAN, IT'S BEEN A REMARKABLE COUPLE OF WEEKS, AS YOU AND I ARE SPEAKING NOW.

THE FUNDRAISING HAS BEEN REMARKABLE.

THE SENSE OF ENERGY ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

AND WHAT DO THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'VE INTERVIEWED IN THE SENATE MAKE OF THE RESPONSE TO HER AND TO THE TICKET SO FAR?

>> I ASKED CHUCK SCHUMER ABOUT A THAT ACTUALLY WHEN I WAS TALKING TO HIM FOR THIS PIECE.

AND HE BASICALLY SAID THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO JUST RISE TO A CHALLENGE.

LIKE THIS IS JUST A CRUCIBLE, AND SHE'S JUST SORT OF CRUSHING IT.

AND THAT'S WHO SHE IS.

SHE RISES TO A CHALLENGE.

SO I THINK THAT'S ONE INTERPRETATION, BUT YOU COULD ALSO SAY HER FIRST PRESIDENTIAL RUN WAS A CHALLENGE, AND SHE DIDN'T RISE TO IT, RIGHT.

SO I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT JUST MAKE THIS MOMENT RIGHT FOR HER.

ONE PIECE OF IT IS JUST THE RELIEF AMONG A LOT OF DEMOCRATS THAT IT'S NOT JOE BIDEN, AND THE SURPRISE OF THAT, AND HER SEEMING SO FRESH IN COMPARISON GIVEN CONCERNS ABOUT HIS AGE.

AND THAT'S REALLY BOOSTING HER RIGHT NOW.

AT THE SAME TIME, YOU'RE STARTING TO HEAR PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT YOUR POLICIES.

WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IN?

CAN YOU SHOW US EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD DO?

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT DID TRIP UP HER EARLIER PRESIDENTIAL RUN, WHEN SHE HAD TO FLESH OUT POLICIES AND IT BECAME THIS RACE, YOU KNOW, AMONG DEMOCRATS FOR WHOSE POLICIES COULD BE MORE LIBERAL.

SO I THINK THAT REMAINS A CHALLENGE FOR HER.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW SHE TACKLES IT.

>> HOW WILL SHE TACKLE?

THERE ARE GROUPS THAT EVALUATE DIFFERENT POLITICAL FIGURES AND WHERE THEY SORT OF FIT ON THE IDEOLOGICAL SPECTRUM.

ACCORDING TO ONE OF THOSE, SHE WAS CONSIDERED THE SECOND MOST LIBERAL SENATOR.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS SEIZED ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, SAYING THAT SHE WAS ALMOST AS LIBERAL AS VERMONT SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS, WHO IS A SELF-DESCRIBED SOCIALIST WHO CAUCUSES WITH SORT OF THE DEMOCRATS.

IS THAT -- HOW DO YOU SEE THAT?

>> I THINK SHE WAS DEFINITELY ONE OF THE MOST LIBERAL SENATORS WHEN SHE WAS IN THE SENATE.

AND THE ISSUE THAT SHE REALLY LAUNCHED HER CAREER ON WAS IMMIGRATION AND THIS IDEA OF TRUMP'S RHETORIC AGAINST UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS BEING DEHUMANIZING.

AND SHE INTRODUCED A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE GIVEN IMMIGRANTS THE RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY AT THE BORDER.

HER MAIDEN SPEECH IN THE SENATE WAS DEFENDING UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING NOW WITH POLLS SHOWING THAT A LOT OF AMERICANS ARE VERY CONCERNED ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, THAT SHE IS NOT REALLY EMPHASIZING AS MUCH.

AND THERE IS OTHER ISSUES LIKE THAT AS WELL WHERE SHE HAS REVERSED HER POSITION, LIKE WANTING TO BAN FRACKING.

AND THAT DOES OPEN UP THE RISK OF BEING LABELLED A FLIP-FLOPPER OR BEING INAUTHENTIC IN SEEM WAY, WHICH REPUBLICANS ARE MAKING THAT ARGUMENT.

IF YOU ASK HER PEOPLE AROUND HER, THEY SAY THAT HER TIME AS VICE PRESIDENT HAS SHIFTED HER OPINIONS BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN DEALING WITH REAL WORLD ISSUES.

AND SHE'S KIND OF LEARNING AS SHE GOES AND CHANGING HER MIND, WHICH PEOPLE DO.

SO IT JUST -- I THINK THE WHOLE WORLD AROUND HER POLICY ISSUES AND WHERE DOES SHE STAND AND HOW LIBERAL DOES SHE WANT TO BE, THAT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN IN THE AIR FOR HER FOR YEARS NOW.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS SHE HAS TO TACKLE BEFORE THE ELECTION.

>> BUT IF THERE IS AN ACHILLES HEEL FOR HER AS A CANDIDATE, WOULD BIT THAT, THE FACT THAT SHE DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE STAKED OUT AN IDENTITY FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE, OR IF SHE HAS, IT'S ONE THAT MAY PLAY WELL IN CALIFORNIA, HER HOME STATE, BUT ISN'T NECESSARILY AS ATTRACTIVE TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S DEFINITELY WHAT REPUBLICANS ARE BANKING ON, THAT SHE -- HER INSTINCTS ARE MORE LIBERAL THAN THE AVERAGE AMERICAN'S, AND ARE GOING TO TURN OFF THE VOTERS SHE NEEDS TO WIN OVER IN STATES LIKE MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, PENNSYLVANIA, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO KIND OF SEE THROUGH THIS ACT THEY WOULD SAY OF SEEMING MORE MODERATE, MORE DOWN THE MIDDLE.

AND THERE IS ALSO THE RISK OF PEOPLE ON THE FAR LEFT BEING ANGRY THAT SHE IS NOT WITH THEM, RIGHT.

SO THAT'S ALWAYS THE TIGHTROPE ANY CANDIDATE HAS TO WALK.

DO VOTERS REALLY GET WORKED UP ABOUT POLICY?

HOW MUCH ARE THEY THINKING ABOUT FRACKING, FOR EXAMPLE, VERSUS DOES THIS PERSON SEEM LIKE THEY HAVE A STEADY HEAD ON THEIR SHOULDERS?

DO THEY SEEM LIKE SOMEONE WHO IS NICE, THAT I TRUST.

A LOT OF TIMES DECISIONS DO COME DOWN TO CANDIDATE KIND OF QUALITIES VERSUS POLICY PAPERS.

SO I THINK TO ME THE MOST POTENTIALLY POTENT ATTACK REPUBLICANS COULD HAVE ON HARRIS IS IF THE POLICY SWITCHING BECOMES A CHARACTER ISSUE.

IT INAUTHENTIC?

DOES IT MEAN SHE DOESN'T STAND FOR ANYTHING.

THINGS LIKE THAT TEND TO BE MORE POWERFUL THAN JUST THE POLICIES THEMSELVES.

>> AND BEFORE I LET YOU GO, LIZ, WHAT IS HER NORTH STAR?

FROM WHAT YOU CAN DETERMINE, BASED ON YOUR FOLLOWING HER CAREER AND BASED ON YOUR REPORTING, WHAT IS HER NORTH STAR?

WHAT DRIVES HER?

>> I MEAN, SHE OFTEN TALKS ABOUT HER PARENTS BEING INVOLVED IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT GROWING UP IN OAKLAND.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHEN SHE TELLS HER OWN ORIGIN STORY ABOUT WHAT MADE HER WANT TO BECOME A LAWYER, GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS, TRY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, THAT'S WHERE SHE REALLY LOCATES IT.

SO I DO THINK HER NORTH STAR IS BELIEVING IN AN AMERICA THAT YOU HAVE TO GET INVOLVED IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE IT, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE HAS THE PROMISE OF EQUALITY HERE, OF OPPORTUNITY.

AND THAT'S WHY SHE GOT INVOLVED.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT SHE WOULD SAY TODAY AS WELL.

>> LIZ GOODWIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WAS.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.