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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
ISRAEL STRIKES A SAFE ZONE IN GAZA KILLING DOZENS.
THE IDF SAYS THEY WERE TARGETING HAMAS.
WE BRING YOU THE LATEST FROM THE REGION.
WITH NO END IN SIGHT TO THIS WAR AND HOSTAGES STILL IN GAZA, I'M JOINED BY ISRAELI LEADER YAIR GOLAN.
>>> THE DEAL IS SIMPLE, FIGHT, SURVIVE, AND BECOME FREE MEN.
>> CONVICTS FIGHTING FOR THEIR COUNTRY.
A REPORT ON THE UKRAINIAN PRISONER BATTALION IN POKROVSK.
>>> IT FEELS A LITTLE DRAMATIC FOR AN ACCIDENTAL DROWNING.
>> A MURDER MYSTERY IN HIGH SOCIETY AMERICA.
THE CONVERSATION WITH THE FILMMAKER SUSANNE BIER ON HER NEW SHOW "THE PERFECT COUPLE "CAN THE STARRING NICOLE KIDMAN.
>>> WE HAVE HAD THIS DROP NATIONWIDE OF 1 MILLION KIDS.
>> THE DEATH OF SCHOOL 10.
ALEC MacGILLIS TELLS US HOW ENROLLMENT IS THREATENING AMERICAN EDUCATION.
♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
SETON J. MELVIN.
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
IT'S BEEN MORE THAN 11 MONTHS SINCE THE BRUTAL ATTACK ON ISRAEL BY HAMAS ON OCTOBER 7th.
STILL, THE WAR GRINDS ON.
HEALTH OFFICIALS ARE COUNTING THE MANY DEAD AFTER AN ISRAELI STRIKE ON A DESIGNATED HUMANITARIAN ZONE IN SOUTHERN GAZA.
THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS IT STRUCK TERRORISTS IN A COMMAND AND CONTROL CENTER.
HAMAS DENIES PLACING FIGHTERS IN THE AREA.
LIVING CONDITIONS WITHIN THE ENCLAVE ARE INTOLERABLE.
DISEASES SPREADING, INCLUDING POLIO, AS SANITARY CONDITIONS COLLAPSE.
WOUNDS INFESTED BY MAGGOTS IN GAZA LO HOSPITALS ARE BECOMING ROUTINE.
MORE THAN 100 HOSTAGES REMAIN IN CAPTIVITY.
WE BEGIN OUR COVERAGE OF ALL OF THIS WITH MATTHEW CHANCE FOR MORE ON THE ISRAELI STRIKE ON GAZA.
>> Reporter: AS RESCUE WORKERS SCRAMBLE FOR SURVIVORS, EYEWITNESSES SAY THE ISRAELI STRIKES TARGETED WHAT WAS MEANT TO BE A SAFE ZONE IN THE SOUTHERN GAZA STRIP.
LEAVING CRATERS AND DOZENS OF KILLED AND INJURED.
THEY TOLD US THIS AREA WAS SAFE, SAYS THIS MAN.
I SWEAR THE PEOPLE HERE WERE JUST NORMAL, HE SAYS.
NOT FIGHTERS.
BY DAYLIGHT, YOU CAN SEE THE EXTENT OF THE DESTRUCTION.
ISRAEL'S MILITARY SAYS IT CONDUCTED A PRECISE STRIKE ON HAMAS TERRORISTS, OPERATING A COMMAND AND CONTROL CENTER INSIDE THIS HUMANITARIAN ZONE.
PRIOR TO THE STRIKE, NUMEROUS STEPS WERE TAKEN TO MITIGATE THE RISK OF HARMING CIVILIANS.
THIS IS A HEAVILY POPULATED AREA.
CIVILIANS WERE CAUGHT UP IN THE POWERFUL BLAST.
THIS MAN SAYS HIS TWO DAUGHTERS WERE COMPLETELY BURIED UNDER THE ONLY ONE SURVIVED, HE SAYS.
HE SAYS HE FOUND THE BODY PARTS OF HIS NEIGHBORS STREWN AROUND.
THIS 12-YEAR-OLD GIRL IS NURSING A BROKEN SHOULDER, SUFFERED WHEN HER TENT COLLAPSED, SHE SAYS, TRAPPING HER AND HER MOTHER INSIDE.
I WAS SCARED BECAUSE THE STRIKES WERE SO CLOSE, SHE SAYS.
ISRAEL ACCUSES HAMAS OF USING CIVILIANS AS HUMAN SHIELDS.
IT INSISTS THE ISRAELI MILITARY TAKES MEASURES TO ENABLE CIVILIANS IN GAZA TO AVOID COMBAT ZONES.
THERE'S LITTLE REAL SECURITY.
IN THIS BRUTAL WAR.
>> MATTHEW CHANCE REPORTING THERE FROM TEL AVIV.
>>> TODAY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN CALLED ON ISRAELI SECURITY FORCES TO MAKE CHANGES.
HIS STRONGEST STATEMENT YET IN RESPONSE TO THE KILLING OF AN AMERICAN TURKISH CITIZEN IN THE WEST BANK.
ON OCTOBER 7th, YAIR GOLAN, A FORMER MAJOR GENERAL SAW A VACUUM IN LEADERSHIP AND TOOK ACTION.
HE PUT ON HIS OLD ARMY UNIFORM AND DROVE SOUTH TO DEFEND PEOPLE THERE.
NOW AS LEADER OF A NEW CENTRAL LEFT COALITION PARTY CALLED THE DEMOCRATS, HE IS TRYING TO FILL ANOTHER VACUUM.
AS WAR CONTINUES IN GAZA AND AS TENSION RATCHETS UP ON THE NORTHERN BORDER AND WEST BANK, HE IS WORKING TO UNITE THE OPPOSITION TO PRESENT A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE TO NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT.
YAIR GOLAN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
AS WE HAVE NOTED, YOU ARE THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATS.
THAT'S A MERGER.
YOU CALLED ON LEADERS OF THE OPPOSITION TO COME TOGETHER FOR, QUOTE, IMMEDIATE COORDINATION ON WHAT YOU HAVE CALLED FIVE BURNING ISSUES.
THEY INCLUDE A HOSTAGE AND CEASE-FIRE DEAL.
AN UPDATED REPORT ON THE IDF'S BUILT TO FACE AN ALL ENCOMPASSING REGIONAL CONFLICT INTO WHICH YOU SAY NETANYAHU IS LEADING THE COUNTRY.
AND PUSHING FOR AN INQUIRY INTO THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS.
HOW IS THAT COMING ALONG?
>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, UP TO NOW, WE DIDN'T MANAGE TO UNIFY ALL OUR EFFORTS IN ORDER TO CONVINCE THE PUBLIC AND CONVINCE THE GOVERNMENT, THE COALITION AT THE SAME TIME THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME FOR NEW ELECTIONS.
I TRULY BELIEVE THAT IN ORDER TO MOVE IN ANY POSITIVE DIRECTION CONCERNING THE FUTURE AND THE DESTINY OF ISRAEL, WE NEED NEW ELECTIONS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
>> NEW ELECTIONS AREN'T SET, AS YOU KNOW, UNTIL OCTOBER 2026.
YOU SAID IN JUNE ON THIS VERY PROGRAM THAT WHAT WOULD TRIGGER NEW ELECTIONS, WHAT IS REQUIRED IS MASS PROTESTS ON THE SCALE OF 1 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE DAY.
SINCE THEN, TRAGICALLY, WE HAVE SEEN THE BRUTAL MURDER OF SIX ISRAELI HOSTAGES REALLY CRIPPLE THE NATION THERE AND A LOT MORE OUTRAGE, SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THIS GOVERNMENT, AGAINST PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU WHO MANY INCLUDING THOSE IN HIS DEFENSE ESTABLISHMENT HAVE ACCUSED OF TRYING TO SABOTAGE A HOSTAGE DEAL.
WE HAVE SEEN A TURNOUT OF A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND PROTESTERS.
THE LARGEST WE HAVE SEEN SINCE OCTOBER 7th.
NOWHERE NEAR THE 1 MILLION YOU SAY IS REQUIRED ON A DAILY BASIS.
WHAT IS IT THAT WILL GET ISRAELIS TO THAT POINT IN YOUR VIEW?
>> WE NEED TO PROTEST EVERY DAY, ALL DAY.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO PROTEST DURING WEEKENDS.
IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO DO IT HERE AND THERE.
IT SHOULD BE A CONSTANT PRESSURE ON THE GOVERNMENT.
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE CONVINCED THAT THE BEST SOLUTION FOR THEM, THE BEST POLITICAL SOLUTION FOR THEM IS TO CONDUCT NEW ELECTIONS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
>> AND YET, THEY'RE NOT MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.
MINISTER HAS REALLY -- >> IT'S A STRUGGLE.
>> IT IS A STRUGGLE.
I KNOW IT'S ONE THAT YOU DISAGREE ON OTHER OPPOSITION LEADERS WITH IN TERMS OF HOW TO ADDRESS.
THEY HAVE OFFERED TO GIVE PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU A LIFE LINE IN ORDER TO SEAL A HOSTAGE DEAL IF YOU DO HAVE FAR RIGHT COALITION MEMBERS LEAVE AS THEY ARE THREATENING TO DO.
YOU SAY THAT'S COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO BE OFFERING A LIFE LINE.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE WHO THINK THAT APPROACH SUGGESTS YOU CARE MORE ABOUT GETTING PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU OUT OF OFFICE THAN BY SOLIDIFYING OR COMING CLOSER TO A CEASE-FIRE DEAL?
>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THE FOLLOWING.
WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ANY POLITICAL CONSIDERATION RIGHT NOW.
IT'S MUCH MORE ABOUT NATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS AND MORAL CONSIDERATIONS.
WE NEED TO FREE ALL THE HOSTAGES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
FREEING THE HOSTAGES, THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF A PROCESS OF REACHING A CEASE-FIRE IN THE SOUTH, BY REACHING A CEASE-FIRE IN THE SOUTH, WE WILL BE ABLE TO REACH A CEASE-FIRE IN THE NORTH.
BY ENDING THE WAR, WE COULD START THE MOST DESIRABLE PROCESS, THE RECOVERY OF ISRAEL.
THEREFORE, I THINK THAT ALL OPPOSITION LEADERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED TO UNIFY ALL OUR EFFORTS TOGETHER.
WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.
WE NEED TO COORDINATE ALL OUR MEASURES IN ORDER TO CONVINCE THE PUBLIC AND CONVINCE THE GOVERNMENT THAT WITHOUT NEW ELECTIONS, WE CANNOT SAVE ISRAEL OUT OF THIS MISERABLE SITUATION WE EXPERIENCE RIGHT NOW.
>> AS YOU KNOW, EARLY POLLING SUGGESTS THAT YOUR PARTY COULD WIN APPROXIMATELY 10 OR 11 OF THE 120 SEATS.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT PER THIS POLLING, NETANYAHU WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO BRING IN ABOUT 22 SEATS?
THAT'S LESS THAN THE 32 THEY HAVE.
BUT THAT'S MORE THAN YOU ARE EXPECTED OR PROJECTED TO BRING IN AFTER EVERYTHING THAT THE COUNTRY HAS GONE THROUGH THIS YEAR AFTER THE MASS PROTESTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN, AFTER THE FACT THAT 100 ISRAELIS STILL REMAIN HELD HOSTAGE IN GAZA.
WHY IS HE ABLE TO HOLD SUCH A HIGH NUMBER OF SEATS?
>> I WOULD SAY THE FOLLOWING.
FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, THE CLUSTERS.
THE CLUSTERS OF PARTIES, THE ONE OF THE OPPOSITION AND ONE OF COALITION AND NO DOUBT ACCORDING TO ALL POLLS FOR THE LAST -- SINCE THE WAR ERUPTED, THAT THE COALITION HAS VERY LOW NUMBER OF SEATS IN THE NEXT KNESSET ACCORDING TO THE POLLS.
WE NEED TO CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT.
IT HAS NO LEGITIMACY TO KEEP ITS RULE OVER ISRAEL.
THE OTHER PART IS THE TRAUMA.
THE ISRAELI PUBLIC IS UNDER TERRIBLE TRAUMA.
THINK ABOUT IT.
THE SCALE OF THE HAMAS ATTACK ON OCTOBER 7th COMPARING TO THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, COMPARING TO THE EVENT OF THE SEPTEMBER 11th, IS MUCH, MUCH BIGGER.
IT'S A DIFFERENT SCALE.
ISRAEL IS UNDER TERRIBLE TRAUMA.
PEOPLE IN TIME OF TRAUMA TEND TO ADOPT MORE, I WOULD SAY, VIGOROUS STANCE.
THIS IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW, WE NEED TO KEEP THINKING FROM OUR MINDS AND OUR BRAINS RATHER THAN FROM OUR STOMACH.
NO DOUBT THAT THE MOST DESIRABLE SITUATION FOR ISRAEL IS TO FREE ALL THE HOSTAGES, BECAUSE FREEING ALL THE HOSTAGES, THAT SYMBOLIZS THE ABILITY OF THE ISRAELI PEOPLE TO KEEP A SENSE OF SOLIDARITY.
I THINK ABOUT THE DAYS AFTER THE WAR.
IN ORDER TO RECOVER, WE NEED SOLIDARITY, A STRONG SENSE OF SOLIDARITY.
THERE'S NO OTHER THING, NO OTHER ISSUE LIKE THE HOSTAGES QUESTION WHICH SYMBOLIZES THE IMPORTANCE OF SOLIDARITY.
>> THAT I HAVE TO TELL YOU -- I'VE BEEN TO ISRAEL A NUMBER OF TIMES SINCE OCTOBER 7th.
I HAVE INTERVIEWED AND GOTTEN TO KNOW MANY OF THE FAMILIES QUITE WELL.
THAT'S THE ONE CONSTANT I HEAR.
THAT THE COUNTRY CANNOT PROPERLY HEAL UNTIL THESE HOSTAGES ARE ALL BROUGHT HOME.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS APPEAR TO BE IN ALLIANCE ON.
ON THE ISSUE THOUGH OF CHANGE, WHERE YOU SEEM TO DIFFER FROM AT LEAST THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS IS WHILE THEY ARE OPEN AND PERHAPS MOST NOW WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CHANGE AT THE TOP IN LEADERSHIP, THE COUNTRY -- YOU KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE -- HAS SHIFTED FURTHER TO THE RIGHT.
YOU CONTINUE TO REMAIN STEADFAST IN YOUR VIEW THAT THE BEST WAY TO ISRAEL'S SECURITY AND THE PALESTINIANS IS A SEPARATION, A DIVORCE BETWEEN THE TWO, AS MANY DESCRIBE IT.
AND A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO ISRAELIS WHO ARGUE THAT LEAVING GAZA IS WHAT GOT ISRAEL IN THIS PLACE TO BEGIN WITH ON OCTOBER 7th?
WHEN YOU LOOK AT ANYBODY THAT IS LIKELY SEEN AS A REPLACEMENT FOR BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, IT'S NOT ANYONE ON THE CENTER LEFT.
IT'S THOSE WHO PERHAPS COULD BE EVEN FURTHER TO THE RIGHT THAN HE IS POLITICALLY.
>> I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT I'M HERE.
I'M READY TO LEAD ISRAEL IF IT'S HOPEFULLY, IT WILL BE NEED.
THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE.
THERE'S ALWAYS AN ALTERNATIVE.
I THINK WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW IS TO COMBINE TOGETHER ON THE ONE HAND A STRONG SENSE OF SECURITY AND WILLINGNESS TO IMPLEMENT ALL MILITARY MEASURES IN ORDER TO KEEP THE SECURITY OF ISRAEL.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE DON'T DO RIGHT NOW IN THE NORTH, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO CONCERNING THAT, I'M MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE COMPARING TO THE POLICY OF THE GOVERNMENT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT WITHOUT HAVING SOME SORT OF INTERNATIONAL AND REGIONAL MEASURES IN ORDER TO SECURE ISRAEL AND ESPECIALLY CONCERNING THE RISING THREAT FROM IRAN, WE CANNOT DO IT ALONE.
ISRAEL NEEDS TO WORK WITH OTHER FORCES IN THE REGION.
ISRAEL TRULY NEEDS THE BACKING OF THE WEST AND ESPECIALLY THE BACKING OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
WE CANNOT MOVE FORWARD IN ORDER TO HAVE THIS ALLIANCE WITHOUT ENDING THE WAR, WITHOUT PROMISING SOME SORT OF A POSITIVE FUTURE TO OUR TROUBLED REGION.
THEREFORE, WE NEED TO WORK HAND IN HAND WITH THE AMERICANS AT LEAST.
>> YOU MENTIONED NEEDING THAT ALLIANCE WITH THE UNITED STATES.
IT IS NOTABLE THAT YOU SAID YOU HAVE HAD A MUCH MORE HAWKISH VIEW ON THE SITUATION IN THE NORTH.
YOU SERVED AS COMMANDER OF ISRAEL'S NORTHERN COMMAND.
YOU SAID THIS IN AN INTERVIEW.
THAT'S NOT THE POSITION OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
I DO WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
MORE SO THAN THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION UNDER PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU.
THAT IS WITH THE DAY AFTER IN GAZA.
YOU SAID, YES, YOU DO NEED TO FIGHT ALL MILITANTS THERE AND BUILD AN ALTERNATIVE THAT INCLUDES WORKING WITH THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HAS NOT SIGNED OFF ON.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS VITAL?
>> BECAUSE LOOK AT THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY.
THERE ARE TWO BASIC ELEMENTS.
HAMAS AND THE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE NOT WILLING TO HAVE ANY CONCESSION WITH ISRAEL AND WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY THAT WILL AT LEAST FORMALLY SUPPORT THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION AND PRACTICALLY WORK WITH ISRAEL FOR HAND IN HAND FOR MANY YEARS.
WHAT IS BETTER FOR ISRAEL?
WORKING WITH THE ONE WHO WANT TO KILL US OR WORKING WITH SOME SORT OF A MODERATE ELEMENT, NOT ZIONIST IN THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY.
IN OUR REGION, YOU NEED TO WORK WITH THE PEOPLE WHO YOU ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU.
NO DOUBT, FROM ANY PERSPECTIVE, NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE, REGIONAL PERSPECTIVE, INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVE, WE NEED TO WORK HAND IN HAND WITH THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IN ORDER TO STABILIZE THE SITUATION AND IN ORDER TO SECURE THE LIVES OF ISRAELI CITIZENS.
>> WE HAVE 30 SECONDS LEFT.
I WANT TO ASK WHETHER YOU THINK SECRETARY OF STATE BLINKEN'S CRITICISM IN KILLING A TURKISH AMERICAN CITIZEN IN THE WEST BANK LAST WEEK -- HE CALLED IT UNACCEPTABLE.
THE IDF SAID IT'S LIKELY THIS WAS INDIRECT AND UNINTENTIONAL.
YOUR RESPONSE?
>> I TAKE THE STAND OF THE IDF.
IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE EVENT.
I FEEL MUCH SORROW ABOUT EVENTS LIKE THAT.
WE ARE IN A VERY COMPLICATED SITUATION.
THEREFORE, THERE'S NO OTHER WAY BUT TO FIGHT TERRORISM INSIDE THE GAZA STRIP AND INSIDE JORDAN AND SOMALIA.
>> I BET YOU WOULD AGREE 11 MONTHS AGO WHEN YOU WENT TO RESCUE ISRAELI CITIZENS AFTER THE WORST ATTACK ON THE COUNTRY IN ITS HISTORY, YOU DIDN'T IMAGINE 11 MONTHS LATER WE WOULD BE IN THIS PLACE.
YAIR GOLAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.
>> THANK YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>>> WE TURN NOW TO ANOTHER CONFLICT THAT FEELS NEVER ENDING.
THAT IS RUSSIA'S WAR ON UKRAINE.
OVERNIGHT, KYIV CARRIED OUT ITS BIGGEST DRONE ATTACK ON RUSSIA'S CAPITAL TO DATE, KILLING AT LEAST ONE WOMAN, WRECKING DOZENS OF HOMES AND FORCING 50 FLIGHTS TO BE DIVERTED AROUND MOSCOW.
RUSSIA SAYS THEY THWARTED THE ATTACK.
ZELENSKYY'S TROOPS REMAIN UNDER IMMENSE PRESSURE AFTER THE EASTERN EARN CITY OF POKROVSK.
FRED PLEITGEN HAS THE STORY.
>> Reporter: THIS MAN, 41 YEARS OLD, TEN YEARS IN JAIL FOR THEFT AND VIOLENT ASSAULT, NOW ASSAULTING VLADIMIR PUTIN'S ARMY.
>> THE EX-CONVICTS OF PART OF UKRAINE'S 59th BRIGADE.
THEIR CAMP RUDIMENTARY.
>> MANY ARE DYING ON BOTH SIDES.
THE 59th BRIGADE GAVE US THIS VIDEO SHOWING RUSSIANS FLEEING A BURNING HOUSE.
BUT THEY ADMIT THEY ARE SUFFERING CASUALTIES AS WELL.
>> THEIR DEAL IS SIMPLE.
FIGHT, SURVIVE, AND BECOME FREE MEN.
>> THE COMPANY COMMANDER SAYS HIS MEN PERFORM SOME OF THE MOST DANGEROUS ASSAULTS AROUND HERE.
HE WAS A JAIL WARDEN.
MANY OF THOSE HERE, HIS INMATES.
HE RECRUITED THEM AND SAYS THE TRAITS THAT PUT THEM IF JAIL NOW KEEP THEM ALIVE.
>> THIS UNIT IS PART OF UKRAINE'S FORCE DEFENDING THE KEY LOGISTIC HUB POKROVSK.
THE STREETS HERE ARE VIRTUALLY DESERTED.
THE RUSSIANS ARE HITTING THIS PLACE WITH HEAVY MUNITIONS.
EVERYTHING FROM ARTILLERY SHELLS TO LARGE ROCKETS.
AFTER MAJOR ADVANCES, THE RUSSIANS ARE KNOCKING ON THE DOOR HERE.
SHELLS AND ROCKETS CONSTANTLY IMPACTING, ESPECIALLY IN THE EVENING.
THAT'S WHEN THE MEN START RECEIVING MOST OF THE HEAVY CASUALTIES.
THEY SHOW US THIS VIDEO OF A ARMORED VEHICLE HIT BY A RUSSIAN DRONE.
TWO KILLED, FOUR INJURED.
CASUALTIES UKRAINE'S MILITARY ALREADY BADLY OUTMANNED CANNOT AFFORD.
THE MEDIC WHO GOES BY BARBARIAN TELLS ME.
>> RUSSIAN DRONES ARE ALSO LETHAL AT NIGHT.
SO WE LEAVE POKROVSK AS DARKNESS FALLS.
UKRAINIAN TROOPS HEADING TOWARDS THE FRONT.
HOING TO KEEP PUTIN'S ARMY AWAY FROM THIS KEY CITY.
>> THANKS TO FRED FOR THAT REPORT.
>>> WE TURN NOW TO THE NOT SO PERFECT COUPLE.
SUSANNE BIER IS KNOWN FOR DIRECTING "THE UNDOING," "THE UNDOING" AND "THE BIRD BOX."
NOW SHE'S DOING "THE PERFECT COUPLE."
>> IS THIS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO TELL ME?
>> IT FEELS A LITTLE DRAMATIC FOR AN ACCIDENTAL DROWNING.
>> WHY DO YOU ASK PEOPLE TO SIGN NDAs?
>> THEY ARE RICH.
KILL SOMEONE AND GET AWAY WITH IT.
>> HELLO.
>> I SEE YOU, BITCH.
>> STOP.
ENOUGH.
STOP.
>> SUSANNE BIER JOINED CHRISTIANE JUST BEFORE THE PROGRAM DROPPED.
HERE SAY MURDER MYSTERY SET IN HIGH SOCIETY, IN A BEACH HOUSE.
THE EPITOME OF AMERICAN UPPER CLASS VACATION.
IT'S CALLED "A PERFECT COUPLE."
WHAT MAKES A PERFECT COUPLE?
>> I THINK IT'S -- THIS IS KIND OF OBVIOUSLY NOT A PERFECT COUPLE.
IT'S A MURDER MYSTERY.
BUT IT'S ALSO -- IT HAS CLEAR COMEDIC ASPECTS, WHICH IS A LITTLE WHAT DREW ME TO IT.
ALL THE CHARACTERS, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, IS SORT OF A LITTLE BIT OFF.
WONDERFUL BUT A LITTLE BIT -- NOTHING ISN'T QUITE WHAT IT SEEMS.
>> EXACTLY.
HONESTLY, I HAVE, LIKE MANY OF THE REVIEWERS, HAVE SEEN IT.
IT'S EDGE OF YOUR SEAT STUFF.
I'M PROBABLY STUPID, BUT I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT.
MAYBE IT'S A WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF.
IT'S FUN AS WELL.
IT'S DARK BUT IT'S LIGHT AND FUN.
>> IT IS DARK IN ITS UNDERCURRENT.
IT DOES HAVE -- IT DOES SUGGEST THAT MAYBE THE UPPER CLASS ARE NOT -- THE TIGHT ENTITLEMENT IS NOT ALL LIKEABLE AND IS INCREDIBLY DISRESPECTFUL TO OTHER PEOPLE.
>> NOT SO GOOD FOR THEM.
YOU SEE SOME OF THE CHARACTERS KIND OF DISSATISFIED BECAUSE OF THEIR PRIVILEGE.
>> BECAUSE OF THE EXPECTATIONS THEY HAVE BECAUSE OF THEIR PRIVILEGE.
ESSENTIALLY, IT'S FUN.
ESSENTIALLY, YOU ARE KIND OF ENJOYING THAT THEY ARE ALL AT VARIOUS TIMES FRYING A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK AT VARIOUS TIMES YOU DO THINK, MAYBE HE OR SHE DID IT.
>> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
I'M CONSTANTLY THINKING I KNOW.
LET'S GO TO ALMOST ONE OF THE FIRST SCENES, IF NOT THE FIRST IN THE FIRST EPISODE.
THAT IS THE WEDDING PHOTO.
IT'S THE PRE-WEDDING DINNER.
THEY ARE DOING THIS VIDEO.
WE WILL PLAY IT.
>> WE ARE SO, SO THRILLED FOR BOTH OF YOU.
>> ANY WORDS OF WISDOM FOR THE BRIDE AND GROOM?
>> COME ON.
>> YES.
IF YOU ARE HALF AS LUCKY AND YOUR MOTHER AND I, YOU WILL HAVE A LONG AND HAPPY MARRIAGE.
>> WE LOVE YOU.
WE LOVE YOU.
>> THE BRIDE AND GROOM.
>> HAPPY WEDDING EVE.
>> HI.
>> HAPPY WEDDING EVE.
>> I LOVE THIS WOMAN TO DEATH.
TO DEATH.
>> TO DEATH NOT SUCH A SUBTLE PIECE OF DIALOGUE.
I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE THIS IS BASED ON A SERIES BY A NOVELIST, A BESTSELLING AUTHOR.
FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK, DO PEOPLE NEED TO READ THE BOOK?
WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A -- >> HERE IS THE THING, I DIDN'T PURPOSELY NOT READ THE BOOK UNTIL A COUPLE OF WEEKS BEFORE WE STARTED SHOOTING.
I WAS SO INVOLVED IN THE SCRIPT.
I DID ASSUME THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE WATCHING THE SHOW HAD NOT READ THE BOOK.
I THOUGHT, I BETTER STAY IN THAT POSITION.
I HAVE THOSE GLASSES ON WHERE I CAN ASSESS WHETHER THINGS WORK WITHOUT HAVING READ THE BOOK OR NOT.
THEN I READ THE BOOK.
WHAT ELLEN DOES MAGNIFICENTLY IS THAT SHE HAS GOT SO MUCH TEXTURE INTO A SOCIETY.
SHE'S GOT SO MUCH -- SORT OF THAT BEACHY SORT OF PRESUMABLY LAID-BACK UPPER CLASS AMERICAN THINK.
I UNDERSTOOD SO MUCH ABOUT THAT TEXTURE WHEN I READ THE BOOK.
I WAS ALSO PLEASED THAT I HAD NOT READ IT.
THE SERIES ARE VERY DIFFERENT, ALTHOUGH THE SOUL OF THE BOOK -- IT'S VERY LOYAL TO THE BOOK.
THE STRUCTURE AND STORYLINE IS VERY DIFFERENT.
>> WE SEE THEY ARE THE PERFECT COUPLE.
NICOLE KIDMAN PLAYING THE AUTHOR, WIFE, MOTHER, MARRIED TO LIEV SCHREIBER.
YOU THINK THEY ARE THE PERFECT UNTIL -- WELL, SOMETIMES, YOU DON'T.
MAYBE THEY ARE.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE WORKING WITH HER AGAIN?
HOW COME YOU CHOOSE HER TO PLAY THESE MURDER MYSTERY ROLES?
THE LAST WAS WITH "THE UNDOING" THAT YOU DIRECTED WITH HUGH GRANT.
IT WAS HUGELY SUCCESSFUL.
>> SHE'S VERY -- SHE'S VERY ENIGMATIC.
SHE HAS A -- I THINK NICOLE, SHE'S SO ENIGMATIC.
SHE PROBABLY HAS SECRETS SHE DOESN'T KNOW HERSELF.
>> IN REAL LIFE?
>> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
SHE HAS SO MANY LAYERS.
SHE'S TOTALLY FEARLESS.
SHE WEIRDLY IS DEVOID OF VANITY.
YOU HAVE THIS AMAZINGLY STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL WOMAN.
YOU LITERALLY -- WHEN I STAND NEXT TO HER, I KIND OF REACH HER MID-WAIST.
I'M LOOKING UP TO THIS BEAUTIFUL GIRAFFE-LIKE CREATURE.
SHE DOESN'T CARE.
SHE'S MUCH MORE OF A TOMBOY THAN SOMEBODY WHO REALLY CARES ABOUT HER LOOKS.
I FIND THAT REALLY INTERESTING.
I FIND THAT KIND OF MIX REALLY FASCINATING.
IT DOESN'T -- YOU DON'T -- YOU DON'T KIND OF RUN OUT OF INTERESTING FACETS TO HER, BECAUSE IT SEEMS ENDLESS.
>> ALL THE WOMEN ARE ACTUALLY INTERESTING.
THE MEN ARE MORE KIND OF FUNNY AND A LITTLE BIT WEAK, A LITTLE BIT, I THINK, MOST OF THEM.
SOME OF THEM ARE QUITE FUNNY.
SOME ARE ANGRY.
SOME ARE WOUNDED.
THE WOMEN ARE REALLY QUITE STRONG.
IT'S NOT AN ACCIDENT.
THE WRITER, SHE SAID -- YOU HAVE NICOLE KIDMAN.
YOU HAVE EVE HOUSTON.
YOU HAVE DAKOTA FANNING.
WHEN I WATCHED THE FIRST FIVE SEGMENTS, THEY SEEMED TO BE MUCH MORE BUTTING HEADS.
A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THE END THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT -- >> I DON'T CONSIDER THEM ALLIES IN THIS.
I DO THINK THAT THEY ARE VERY STRONG.
I DO THINK THAT THE MEN -- PART OF WHAT I THOUGHT WAS FUN ABOUT THIS WAS THAT THERE IS A KIND OF SENSE THAT THE MEN ARE WAY WEAKER AND THE FEMALE ARE MUCH STRONGER.
I'M GOING TO BE FOREVER CANCELED IF I ASK THE QUESTION WHETHER THAT POSSIBLY REFLECTS THE REAL LIFE.
>> YOU WILL GET CANCELED.
>> I WILL GET CANCELED.
>> DOES THAT INTEREST YOU, THE BALANCE OF POWER BETWEEN THE -- >> YES.
I ALSO THINK THAT PART -- I THINK PART OF THE CONFLICT IS SOMEHOW AN ARTIFICIAL CONFLICT.
I THINK POTENTIALLY THESE WOMEN COULD BE ALLIES.
YOU BETTER FINISH THE SHOW.
>> POTENTIALLY, THEY COULD BE.
THAT'S WHY I SAY, YOU SORT OF CREEP UP TO A POINT WHERE YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME REVELATION OR SOME SORT OF EMPATHY, SYMPATHY SHOWN.
THEN THEY PLUNGE BACK INTO THEIR ROLES THERE.
YOU SAID ONCE -- WHAT IN THIS CASE WERE THE BORN MATTERS FOR YOU IN THIS STORY?
>> I THINK BY DOING SOMETHING REALLY SEXY AND DELICIOUS AND FUN AND NOT HOMEWORK LIKE AT ALL, I DO THINK YOU COULD KIND OF SNEAK IN A POLITICAL COMMENTARY MIGHT BE PRETENTIOUS TO SAY.
THERE'S A MORAL, SOCIAL COMMENTARY IN TERMS OF THE WORLD OF WEALTH, THE ENTITLEMENT, THE CONCEIT THAT THE RULES DON'T APPLY TO YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WEALTHY AND PRIVILEGED.
THAT WHOLE THING I FOUND IMPORTANT, INTERESTING, AND WORTHWHILE DESCRIBING.
I'M MORE KEEN TO DESCRIBE IT IN A SORT OF LIGHTWEIGHT MANNER THAN IN HEAVYWEIGHT.
I THINK IT WORKS BETTER.
>> CAN I ASK YOU WHETHER THAT MAY COME FROM PERHAPS YOUR OWN LIFE, YOUR OWN HISTORY?
I MEAN, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY ALL ABOUT WASPY AMERICA.
COULDN'T BE MORE WASPY.
YOU GREW UP A JEW IN DENMARK.
WHAT WAS YOUR FAMILY STORY BEFORE THE WAR, DURING THE WAR?
DO YOU THINK THAT MAY HAVE -- MAY INFLUENCE SOME OF WHAT YOU FIND INTERESTING IN MOVIE MAKING TODAY?
>> FOR SURE.
FOR SURE.
MY BACKGROUND AND FOR SURE I'M A SECOND GENERATION.
MY FATHER WAS STATELESS A BIG PART OF HIS LIFE.
FOR SURE, THAT HISTORY HAS IMPACTED WHAT I WANT TO TELL.
BUT I THINK ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT YOU DON'T NECESSARILY TELL IMPORTANT STUFF BY SIGNALING, THIS IS IMPORTANT.
IT HAS BEEN REALLY CRUCIAL TO ME, BECAUSE I DO FEEL THAT A LOT OF THE SIGNALING, THIS IS IMPORTANT, GETS LOST.
>> PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE BASHING THEM OVER THE HEAD.
>> YES.
>> YOU HAVE HAD INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL MOVIES.
YOU WON AN OSCAR AND YOU CAME CLOSE ANOTHER TIME.
ANOTHER MOVIE IS A MOTHER TRYING TO PROTECT HER CHILDREN.
WAS THAT FROM YOUR FAMILY EXPERIENCE?
DID YOU DRAW UPON ANYTHING IN YOUR OWN LIFE FOR THAT?
>> I WANT TO SAY EVERYTHING I HAVE DONE HAS DEALT WITH FAMILIES IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
FOR SOME REASON, I ALWAYS FEEL THAT FAMILIES ARE WHO WE ARE, EVEN IF WE -- EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CONTACT WITH THEIR FAMILIES.
IT STILL DEFINES THEM.
IT HAS ALWAYS INTERESTED ME.
AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH MY HISTORY.
IT HAS TO DO WITH MY FAMILY HISTORY.
IT HAS TO DO WITH, QUITE FRANKLY, HAVING AN INCREDIBLY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS FAMILY.
I THINK IT'S WHO I AM AND WHAT I WANT TO DO.
>> YOU MUST HAVE BEEN CHORTLING INSIDE IF YOU HAVE SUCH A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP AND THE CAST, THE FAMILY THERE IS DYSFUNCTIONAL.
THAT MUST HAVE BEEN INTERESTING.
>> IT'S A LOT OF FUN.
IT'S A LOT OF FUN.
THE WEIRD THING IS THAT YOU CAN LOOK IN YOUR OWN FAMILY AND YOU CAN LOOK AT WAYS OF TALKING AND THEN YOU CAN APPLY IT TO SOMETHING WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT.
IT STILL HAS SIMILARITIES.
IT'S VERY, VERY INTERESTING.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> ALL EPISODES OF "THE PERFECT COUPLE" ARE STREAMING ON NETFLIX.
>>> UP NEXT, AMERICA'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE FACING A CRISIS.
ENROLLMENT HAS PLUMMETED WITH AROUND A MILLION FAMILIES OPTING FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR HOMESCHOOLING.
THE RESULT, CLOSURES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
IT'S PREDOMINANTLY IMPACTING BLACK AND LATINO COMMUNITIES.
ALEC MacGILLIS JOINS US TO DISCUSS HIS LATEST ARTICLE FOR "THE NEW YORKER," THE DEATH OF SCHOOL 10 AND THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN PUBLIC EDUCATION.
>> THANKS.
ALEC, THANKS FOR JOINING US.
YOUR STORY FOCUSES ON SCHOOL 10 IN ROCHESTER.
WHY SCHOOL 10?
WHY ROCHESTER?
>> I WANTED TO LOOK INTO THIS PROBLEM I WAS HEARING ABOUT.
THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT PLUNGED SINCE THE PANDEMIC, DONE BY ABOUT A MILLION STUDENTS NATIONWIDE.
THIS CAUSES A CHALLENGE FOR CITIES THAT HAVE LOTS OF EMPTY SCHOOLS.
I SAW THAT ROCHESTER, NEW YORK, WAS FACING ANTICIPATE ESPECIALLY STARK DROP.
THEY LOSS ABOUT 10% OF THEIR STUDENTS SINCE 2019.
AS A RESULT, WERE HAVING TO THINK ABOUT CLOSING SCHOOLS.
HAD EMBARKED ON THAT PROCESS.
WERE INTO THIS PROCESS THAT OTHER CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE GOING TO BE FACING.
I WENT TO ROCHESTER A COUPLE TYPES TO REPORT ON WHAT THEY WERE DOING THERE AND HOW WRENCHING THIS PROCESS WAS GOING TO BE FOR THIS CITY AND FOR OTHER CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY AS THEY FACE THIS STEEP DROP IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
>> CONNECT THE DOTS.
WHAT WAS IT THAT PRECIPITATED THE DROP IN ENROLLMENT?
HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE BUDGET FOR THE SCHOOL CLOSURE?
>> IT'S STRAIGHTFORWARD.
WE CLOSE THE SCHOOLS FOR A LONG TIME IN LOTS OF DISTRICTS AROUND THE COUNTRY.
MANY CITIES STAYED CLOSE FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, UNTIL SEPTEMBER OF '21.
YOU JUST HAD A LOT OF FAMILIES THAT CHOSE TO LEAVE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS DURING THAT PERIOD.
THEY LEFT FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS, PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS, MANY OF WHICH STAYED OPEN.
THEY LEFT FOR HOMESCHOOLING.
EVEN AFTER SCHOOLS REOPENED, MANY OF THE DISTRICTS, WHEN FAMILIES CAME BACK AND SOME KIDS CAME BACK, THEY FOUND THAT THINGS WERE SO UNRULY, A LOT OF SCHOOLS ARE WRESTLING WITH CRAZY BEHAVIORS, KIDDING BEING UNSOCIALIZED.
FAMILIES MADE THE DECISION THAT THEY WERE GOING TO MOVE THEIR KIDS OUT OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
WE HAVE HAD THIS UNPRECEDENTED DROP NATIONWIDE.
1 MILLION KIDS OFF OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL ROLL.
THAT LEAVES MANY CITIES WITH MORE SPACE, STAFF, BUILDINGS THAN THEY NEED.
THEY NEED TO CONSIDER THIS DIFFICULT UPHEAVAL THAT'S INVOLVED IN CLOSING SCHOOLS IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS.
>> IF ROCHESTER IS NOT ALONE, IF THIS IS A NATIONAL TREND OF PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT DECLINE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE ARE LIKELY TO SEE IN OTHER CITIES WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ROCHESTER, THIS BELT TIGHTENING WHERE IF YOU HAVE BUILDING COSTS AND TEACHER COSTS, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE STUDENT CHECKS THAT COME IN WITH THEM, YOU WILL HAVE TO DO THIS?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
MY ARTICLE MENTIONED OTHER CITIES THAT ARE ALSO EMBARKING ON THIS.
IT'S NOT JUST CITIES THAT WE THINK OF AS BEING HEAVILY DISADVANTAGED LIKE ROCHESTER, NEW YORK.
WEALTHIER CITIES ARE GOING THROUGH THIS.
YOU SAW WHEREVER SCHOOLS STAYED CLOSED, YOU SAW -- YOU SEE THIS CHALLENGE BEING ACUTE.
SEATTLE IS FACING THE CLOSURE OF MANY OF ITS ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.
ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN.
THEY LOST ABOUT 1,000 STUDENTS.
COLUMBUS, OHIO, IS LOOKING TO CLOSE A LOT OF SCHOOLS.
SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA, IN SILICON VALLEY, THEY FACED A HUGE DROP IN ENROLLMENT.
THIS IS HAPPENING IN LOTS OF PLACES.
BUT ESPECIALLY IN THE BLUE CITIES AND COUNTIES THAT HAD THEIR SCHOOLS CLOSED, ESPECIALLY LONG-TERM.
>> IF THE SCHOOLS ARE HAVING TO BE CLOSED, IS THERE A PATTERN ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF SCHOOLS GET CLOSED MORE OFTEN OR WHAT THE STUDENT POPULATION IS OF THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED?
>> YES.
UNFORTUNATELY, THERE IS.
TO THE EXTENT CLOSURES WERE LONG IN MANY CITIES, MANY HEAVILY BLACK AND BROWN AND LOW-INCOME DISTRICTS, AND IT IS THOSE DISTRICTS THAT ARE HAVING TO CLOSE SCHOOLS, YOU ARE SEEING BECAUSE OF THIS ENROLLMENT DECLINE, YOU SEE AN AFFECT IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.
ON TOP OF THAT, THERE'S RESEARCH THAT HAS SHOWN EVEN IN PRIOR YEARS, WHEN DISTRICTS SET OUT TO CLOSE SCHOOLS BECAUSE OF UNDER ENROLLMENT, THAT FALLS ON BLACK AND BROWN SCHOOLS, BEYOND WHAT ONE WOULD EXPECT FROM ENROLLMENT NUMBERS AND PERFORMANCE NUMBERS.
IT SEEMS TO CUT THAT WAY.
IT SEEMS TO BE THE WAY THAT DISTRICTS END UP CLOSING SCHOOLS.
THE RESEARCH ALSO SHOWS THAT KIDS WHOSE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN CLOSED, WHO HAVE TO MOVE TO OTHER SCHOOLS, THAT THAT HAS A CONSEQUENCE -- A LASTING CONSEQUENCE ON THEIR ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A MISTAKE TO CLOSE THE SCHOOLS.
IN MANY CASES IT'S UNAFFORDABLE.
IF YOUR NUMBERS ARE SO LOW, IT'S HARD TO JUSTIFY KEEPING SCHOOLS OPEN.
IT DOES HAVE A LASTING CONSEQUENCE ON THE KIDS WHOSE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN CLOSED.
>> YOU TAKE THE READER THROUGH THIS STORY WITH THE HELP OF A COUPLE OF CHARACTERS.
ONE IS A MOM WHO SOUNDS AMAZING.
TELL US ABOUT HER.
>> I DECIDED TO FOCUS ON HER BECAUSE SHE WAS ESPECIALLY COMMITTED TO TRYING TO KEEP HER SCHOOL OPEN.
A SCHOOL CALLED SCHOOL 10.
IT'S IN A REALLY LOVELY SORT OF WORKING CLASS, MIDDLE CLASS, MAJORITY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD IN SOUTHWEST ROCHESTER.
IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.
IT'S A BEAUIFUL OLD SCHOOL BUILT IN 1916.
TTACHED TO IT.
IT'S A WARM, WELCOMING SCHOOL.
IT HAS HAD CHALLENGES WITH TEST SCHOOLS, LIKE MANY SCHOOLS IN ROCHESTER.
IT'S BELOVED.
WHEN IT ENDED UP ON THE LIST TO BE CLOSED, THERE WAS AN UPROAR.
THE MOTHER BECAME VERY ENGAGED IN TRYING TO SAVE THE SCHOOL.
IT WAS MORE PAINFUL BECAUSE THE SCHOOL WAS NOT -- THE BUILDING WAS NOT GOING TO BE CLOSED.
SCHOOL 10 WAS SHUT DOWN BUT THE PUBLIC WAS USED FOR A PUBLIC MONTESSORI PROGRAM THAT HAD A DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC THAN SCHOOL 10.
IT WAS VERY PAINFUL.
SHE WAS ENGAGED FOR MONTHS IN TRYING TO KEEP THE SCHOOL OPEN AND WAS NOT ABLE TO.
SHE WAS ELOQUENT IN TALKING ABOUT HOW WRENCHING THIS PROCESS IS FOR FAMILIES LIKE HERS.
>> WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT EVEN IF THIS SCHOOL THAT YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT DIDN'T KIND OF MEASURE UP ON TEST SCORES OR WHATEVER IT IS THE THRESHOLDS WERE, IT SEEMS THERE WAS A SENSE OF COMMUNITY HERE.
THAT PEOPLE STILL -- A SCHOOL DID BRING THESE FAMILIES TOGETHER.
>> YEAH.
IT WAS SO CLEAR.
I SPENT THE LAST COUPLE DAYS OF THE SCHOOL YEAR THERE IN LATE JUNE.
GOT TO SEE VARIOUS CEREMONIES THAT THEY WERE HOLDING.
IT WAS SO POIGNANT AND REALLY AFFECTING TO SEE JUST HOW STRONGLY STUDENTS, KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE REACTING TO THE END OF THIS PARTICULAR SCHOOL.
THEY HAD A BIG CEREMONY IN THE GYM AUDITORIUM WHERE THE PRINCIPAL WAS CALLING UP EVERY EDUCATOR, EVERY TEACHER, EVERY AIDE, EVERY STAFFER BY NAME.
THE KIDS JUST SHRIEKING WITH JOY AND GRATITUDE.
YOU COULD TELL WHO WAS MOST BELOVED.
IT WAS A REMINDER THAT EVEN A SCHOOL LIKE THIS THAT HAD BY SOME METRICS SUBPAR SCHOOLS WAS STILL A BELOVED PLACE AND WAS A VERY IMPORTANT INSTITUTION.
THAT WAS GOING TO BE LOST.
JUST LIKE IN MANY OTHER PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY HAVE TO CLOSE DOORS.
>> I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE -- I THINK IT WAS CHRISSY MILLER, THE PARENT OF A SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD.
WHAT HAPPENS TO KIDS LIKE HERS?
>> YOU HAVE CITIES THAT HAVE -- AS THE ENROLLMENT DECLINED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, NOT THE SAME SPEED AS RECENTLY.
THIS DISTRICT YOU SEE A LOT OF FAMILIES LEAVING FOR SUBURBS, LEAVING FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS.
THE DISTRICT -- THE KIDS THAT REMAIN ARE VERY DISPROPORTIONALLY HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS.
YOU HAVE A HIGH SPECIAL NEEDS POPULATION.
FOR THESE KIDS, THESE CLOSURES WERE ESPECIALLY PAINFUL, DIFFICULT.
THEY ARE USED TO ROUTINES.
THE STABILITY, THE RELIABILITY OF THEIR EDUCATORS AND THEIR FELLOW CLASSMATES MEANS SO MUCH TO THEM.
THERE WAS THIS PLEA COMING OUT FROM THOSE PARENTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE KIDS AND THEIR EDUCATORS TOGETHER AS THE SCHOOL REMAINS AND WAS BEING SHUT DOWN.
IT WAS VERY HARD FOR THE DISTRICT TO DO THAT WHEN IT CAME TIME TO MAKE ASSIGNMENT.
A LOT OF THE PARENTS LEAVE FOR HOMESCHOOLING OR MOVE ELSEWHERE.
THAT'S GOING TO FURTHER EXACERBATE THE FALLING ENROLLMENT.
>> YOU WRITE ABOUT A PROGRAM THAT ROCHESTER HAS.
IS THAT UNIQUE?
IS THAT CONTRIBUTING TO ALMOST URBAN FLIGHT?
>> ROCHESTER HAS -- YEARS AGO THEY SET UP A PROGRAM THAT WAS INTENDED TO INCREASE MOVEMENT BETWEEN SUBURBS AND THE CITY SO IT'S EASIER TO MOVE ACROSS LINES.
OVER THE YEARS, NOT SURPRISINGLY, MOST MOVEMENT HAS GONE TO THE SUBURBS.
KIDS IN THE CITY CAN APPLY TO GO TO SUBURBAN SCHOOLS AND THE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHO THEY WANT TO TAKE.
THAT'S PULLING SOME OF THE MOST ENGAGEDD KIDS OUT OF THE CITY SCHOOLS.
YOU HAVE DYNAMICS THAT MADE TOUGH FOR URBAN SCHOOLS.
NOW THE PANDEMIC CLOSURES AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT HAVE JUST WILDLY EXACERBATED THIS PRE-EXISTING TREND.
IN SOME CITIES, YOU START TO WONDER, IS THIS INSTITUTION GOING TO SURVIVE?
ROCHESTER NOW, MORE THAN HALF OF THE KIDS BORN IN ROCHESTER, ARE EXPECTED TO ATTEND DISTRICT SCHOOLS.
AT WHAT POINT DOES THE SYSTEM GET SO SMALL THAT IT'S HARD TO SUSTAIN ITSELF?
>> THERE'S A STUDY OUT BY A GROUP CALLED LEARNING COUNCIL THAT PREDICTED PUBLIC EDUCATION IS SET TO LOSE 16 MILLION ENROLLMENTS BY 2030.
THAT'S JUST SIX YEARS AWAY.
BY THAT TIME, PUBLIC SCHOOLING IS PREDICTED TO BE AT OR JUST ABOVE 50% OF THE MARKET.
WHERE ARE THE GROWTH RATES HERE?
IS IT AUTOMATICALLY GOING FROM PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PRIVATE SCHOOL?
HOW MUCH IS HOMESCHOOLING INCREASING?
>> IT'S BOTH OF THOSE.
YOU HAVE A HUGE MOVEMENT TO HOMESCHOOLING SINCE THE START OF THE PANDEMIC.
THE CONCERN THERE IS THAT IN SO MANY STATES, IT'S UNREGULATED.
IN SOME FAMILIES, IT CAN BE A VERY SERIOUS, SUBSTANTIVE THING WHERE THE FAMILY COMMITS ITSELF AND IT MAKES THE -- THE ASSIGNMENT MAKES SENSE.
IN OTHER CASES, UNFORTUNATELY, HOMESCHOOLING CAN REALLY LOOK NOT ALL THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN TRUANCY.
THERE'S NOT A LOT GOING ON.
WE HAVE LITTLE WAY OF KNOWING WHAT'S HAPPENING.
PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE SEEING A BOOM IN MANY STATES, PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE MASSIVE EXPANSION IN SCHOOL VOUCHERS THAT WE SEE IN MANY MOSTLY RED AND PURPLE STATES WHERE VOUCHERS HAVE BECOME UNIVERSAL.
IT USED TO BE THEY WERE TARGETED TOWARD LOWER INCOME KIDS IN DISADVANTAGED SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
NOW THEY ARE AVAILABLE IN A DOZEN STATES, TO ANY FAMILY, REGARDLESS OF INCOME, REGARDLESS WHERE THEY ARE IN THE STATE.
>> HOW MUCH DOES POLITICS PLAY INTO THIS?
WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN A HEATED ELECTION CYCLE.
EVEN THOUGH THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS DISTANCED HIMSELF FROM PROJECT 2025.
ONE OF THE PLANS THAT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION LAID OUT WAS AN EVISCERATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.
>> THE PROJECT 2025 PLANS FOR EDUCATION COULD HAVE SOME REAL IMPACT.
THERE'S PLENTY OF FUNDING THAT COMES FROM THE FEDS TO SCHOOLS, ESPECIALLY MONEY INTENDED FOR LOWER INCOME SCHOOLS.
MOST OF THE EDUCATION FUNDING AND POLICY SETTING IN THIS COUNTRY HAPPENS AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.
THAT'S WHY YOU ARE SEEING WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AROUND THE COUNTRY.
YOU HAVE THE ENROLLMENT DROP, ESPECIALLY IN STATES THAT KEPT THEIR SCHOOLS CLOSED A LONG TIME.
YOU HAVE GOT THE VOUCHER MONEY FLOWING IN STATE.
IT REALLY IS -- THAT'S WHERE THE REAL ACTION IS AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.
THIS ENROLLMENT DECLINE IS HAPPENING MOST OF ALL IN THE BLUE STATES THAT KEPT SCHOOLS CLOSED FOR SO LONG.
THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN THIS PARTICULAR DYNAMIC.
IT'S NOT REALLY SOMETHING THAT'S -- IT'S NOT DRIVEN BY THE CONSERVATIVE THINK TANKS HOPING TO UNDERMINE PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR YEARS.
IT IN SOME SENSE HAPPENED AT THE VOLITION OF THE BLUE STATE AND CITIES THEMSELVES.
>> HOW DO YOU -- YOU HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF THE PARENTS.
IS THERE A WAY TO STOP THE SPIRAL?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THIS IS THE TIPPING POINT THAT THIS ARTICLE IS WARNING ABOUT.
TO STOP THAT, TO ARREST THAT CYCLE, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A RECOGNITION BY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE IMPORTANT AND FOUNDATIONAL IN OUR COUNTRY TO RECOGNIZE THE EXTENT OF THE CRISIS RIGHT NOW AND TO RECOGNIZE WHAT HAPPENED COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC AND TO BE HONEST ABOUT THAT AND TO REALLY SOMEHOW JUST CONFRONT IT DIRECTLY AND TRY TO AT LEAST SLOW OR POSSIBLY REVERSE SOME OF THE TRENDS.
IT IS THE CHANCE OF THAT KIND OF SPIRAL.
>> I WONDER HOW MUCH IS ALSO AN ISSUE OF PUBLIC PERCEPTION.
THERE WAS A STUDY OUT BY PEW THAT SHOWED JUST OVER HALF OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH FAITH IN THE INSTITUTION OF K THROUGH 12 EDUCATION.
IT'S MORE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE THAN THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.
HOW DO YOU REBUILD THAT TRUST?
>> IT'S DIFFICULT.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT I SPOKE ABOUT WITH THE HEAD OF THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS BACK IN SEPTEMBER OF 2020 WHEN I WAS REPORTING ON THE SCHOOL CLOSURES AND WHEN IT WAS BECOMING CLEAR THE SCHOOLS WERE NOT GOING TO BE REOPENING THAT FALL.
ESPECIALLY IN HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC AREAS.
I PUT THE QUESTION TO HER, ARE YOU WORRIED AS SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AS SOMEONE -- THE EDUCATORS WHO ARE IN YOUR UNION, THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON THIS INSTITUTION.
ARE YOU WORRIED A LOT OF FAMILIES ARE NOT GOING TO COME BACK AND THAT YOU WILL LOSE SUPPORT FROM TAXPAYERS AFTER THE CLOSURES?
SHE EXPRESSED CONFIDENCE THAT THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.
IT WAS CLEAR THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR COUNTRY, OF COMMUNITIES THAT THEY WOULD SURVIVE THIS HIATUS.
I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THAT THAT MAY HAVE PROVED OVER OPTIMISTIC.
>> ALEC MacGILLIS, THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>>> REMEMBERING A GIANT OF THE STAGE AND SCREEN.
>> EVERYTHING THE LIGHT TOUCHES IS OUR KINGDOM.
>> WOW.
>> THAT IS THE VOICE OF ICONIC ACTOR JAMES EARL JONES WHO DIED ON MONDAY AT THE AGE OF 93.
FROM MUFASA TO DARTH VADER, UNKNOWN FOR VOICING LEGENDARY CHARACTERS.
SOME AUDIENCES MIGHT RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE MAN BEHIND THESE ICONIC THREE WORDS.
>> THIS IS CNN.
>> NOW, WE WILL END ON A REFLECTION FROM THE ACTOR HIMSELF, JUST AS HE WON THE HONORARY LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD AT THE 2011 OSCARS.
>> I READ SOMETHING THIS MORNING ABOUT SOMEONE WISHING TO NOT BEING ABLE TO CHANGE SOMEONE'S MIND IN THE WORLD, TO CHANGE THEIR HEARTS.
I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT AN ACTOR LOOKS OUT OVER THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE THAT HE CAN HOPE FOR.
YOU HAVE TO REALLY FOCUS ON THAT AND NOT THE STORIES BUT THE HEARTBEAT OF THE STORY.
HOPE TO CONNECT WITH THE HEARTBEAT OF THE AUDIENCE.
>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO." ON PBS.
JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDE SON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
SETON J. MELVIN.
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.