Controlling the Weather and Eating Pets: Expert Breaks Down Disinformation

>>> WITH THE STAKES OF COMMUNICATION AND PUBLIC MESSAGING HIGHER THAN EVER, THE SPREAD OF MISINFORMATION ONLINE IS A REAL WORLD CONCERN.

16 ELECTORS FOR DONALD TRUMP THIS YEAR DENY THE 2020 RESULT.

TO DISCUSS HOW FALSE INFORMATION SPREADS AND WAYS TO COMBAT IT, WE SPEAK TO AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR.

>> YOU STUDY MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION AND HOW INFORMATION SPREADS.

SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN SO DISCONCERTING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IS IN THE WAKE OF THE TWO HORRIBLE STORMS AND DISASTERS THAT WENT THROUGH FLORIDA AND THE SOUTHEAST, WE SAW SO MUCH FAKE NEWS, FALSE INFORMATION, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO FRAME IT.

WHY DID IT TAKE OFF SO FAST?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IN ANY CRISIS SITUATION IS THAT RUMORS BEGIN TO SPREAD ABOUT THE RESPONSE, ABOUT THE SITUATION, THE REALITY ON THE GROUND.

THEY EVOLVE OVER TIME AS MORE ACTUAL INFORMATION COMES OUT ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS TODAY, A LOT OF PEOPLE GET INFORMATION FROM SOCIAL MEDIA.

SOCIAL MEDIA IS A PLACE WHERE SOMETIMES YOU GET REAL PEOPLE TALKING, ACTUALLY THERE ON THE GROUND AND ABLE TO COMMUNICATE.

IN THESE PARTICULAR SITUATIONS A LOT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING, PROMINENT INFLUENCERS HAD A PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW AND SAID A FRIEND OF A FRIEND TOLD ME, AND THAT KIND OF RUMOR TENDS TO GO VIRAL ON SOCIAL MEDIA, PARTICULARLY IF THEY'RE SAYING SOMETHING THAT SOUNDS SCARY, SCANDALOUS OR IMPLIES A GOVERNMENT INSTITUTION IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG OR FAILING.

THAT'S HAPPENING MORE AND MORE LATE LATELY.

>> X SEEMS TO BE A PLATFORM WHERE MISINFORMATION SPREADS BECAUSE THE OWNER, ELON MUSK, AS TAKEN OFF THE GUARDRAILS AND REMOVED MODERATION.

THEY'VE TRIED TO REPLACE WITH COMMUNITY NOTES, WE COULD ALL CROWDSOURCE A BETTER TRACK OF INFORMATION.

WE COULD SEE SOMETHING FALSE, FLAG IT.

ENOUGH PEOPLE FLAG IT, MAYBE THE ALGORITHM SAID WE SHOULDN'T SPREAD IT AS FAR.

IS IT WORKING?

>> COMMUNITY NOTES IS A REALLY GOOD IDEA.

ONE THING THAT'S GREAT, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T TRUST FACT CHECKS FROM MEDIA, PEOPLE DON'T LIKE CNN, FOX.

BUT TWITTER USED TO HAVE FACT CHECK LABELS, WITH THE CONTENT WRITTEN BY A MEDIA OUTLET.

WOULD BE RELIABLE, TAKE A LITTLE TIME BUT GENERALLY RELIABLE.

BUT WHAT BEGAN TO HAPPEN IS THE ENTERPRISE OF FACT CHECKING WAS GRADUALLY DELEGITIMIZED.

MEDIA WANTS YOU TO THINK THIS AND THE PLATFORM IS CENSORING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF PEOPLE BY PUTTING A FLAG ON IT.

I THINK THAT'S NUTS.

BUT THE IDEA IS CAN THE COMMUNITY HELP MODERATE ITSELF?

MODERATE THE PLACE WHERE WE ARE?

WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN ON COMMUNITY NOTES, PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT AND PEOPLE ON THE LEFT AS THE ALGORITHM INTUITS IT HAVE TO BOTH AGREE THAT THE COMMUNITY NOTE IS FAIR AND THE SOURCES REPUTABLE.

IF THAT HAPPENS, THEN THE COMMUNITY NOTE APPEARS.

BUT WHAT'S BEGUN TO HAPPEN IS TWO THINGS.

ONE, OFTENTIMES THE COMMUNITY CAN'T ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING IN THE MOMENT.

YOU REALLY SEE THIS HAPPEN IN CRISIS SITUATIONS.

ME SITTING ON MY COUCH IN CALIFORNIA, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S HAPPENING TO SOMEBODY IN NORTH CAROLINA.

I CAN'T COMMUNITY NOTE FACT CHECK A RUMOR.

IT TAKES TIME TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

OTHER DYNAMIC IS A LOT OF THE TIME ONCE THE RUMOR BECOMES A SOURCE OF POLITICAL PROPAGANDA, IT GETS TIED INTO PEOPLE'S IDENTITY.

THEY DON'T WANT TO ADMIT THE RUMOR WAS FALSE AND THEIR POLITICIAN PICKED IT UP.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT AGREEMENT HAPPEN, SO THE NOTE DOESN'T APPEAR OR DOESN'T STAY.

UNFORTUNATELY THIS IS A FAILING OF COMMUNITY NOTES.

WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE IS BOTH THINGS HAPPENING, FACT CHECK AND THE NOTE, SO HOWEVER QUICKLY YOU GET IT THERE, THE INFORMATION GOING VIRAL HAS CONTEXT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE SO PEOPLE CAN BE INFORMED.

>> HOW MUCH DOES AUTHORITY FACTOR INTO IT?

ASKING IN THE CONTEXT OF POLITICIANS THAT SPREAD MISINFORMATION OR CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

A COUPLE HERE, REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE FROM GEORGIA TWEETED OUT QUOTE -- GOING TO SAY THIS BEFORE AND AFTER THE QUOTE, THIS IS NOT TRUE.

YES, THEY CAN CONTROL THE WEATHER, IT'S RIDICULOUS FOR ANYONE TO LIE AND SAY IT CAN'T BE DONE.

DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF THAT ANYONE CAN CONTROL THE WEATHER, AND IT'S UNCLEAR IN THIS STATEMENT WHO THE THEY IS, AND SHE HAS A HISTORY OF SPREADING THIS.

THE FACT SHE'S AN AUTHORITY, NOT A COMMONER LIKE YOU AND ME, DOES THAT SUPERCHARGE OR GIVE GREATER REACH TO THIS?

>> TWO THINGS HAPPEN.

ONE, IT DOES GET GREATER REACH.

SHE HAS A GREATER AUDIENCE.

POLITICAL ELITES HAVE THAT POWER TO MAKE A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE A MESSAGE.

BUT ONE LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ELITE AND INFLUENCER AND ELECTED OFFICIAL IN PARTICULAR, SHE DOES HAVE THE IMPRIMATUR OF BEING AN AUTHORITY.

HER WORDS CARRY WEIGHT.

SHE'S AN ELECTED OFFICIAL OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.

IT'S REMARKABLE TO SEE THE EXTENT TO WHICH PARTICULAR POLITICAL ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE BEHAVING IN THIS INFLUENCER LIKE WAY.

JUST SAY I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS, JUST SAYING THIS THING, TOSS AN IDEA OUT THERE.

IT NORMALIZES THE IDEA FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW HER, SEE HER AS -- HER OR ANYBODY ELSE, ELECTED OFFICIALS SEEN AS ARBITERS, THESE ARE THE OPINIONS THAT GOOD REPUBLICANS HOLD, PEOPLE OF MY POLITICAL TRIBE HOLD.

ONE OF THE THINGS YOU START TO SEE HAPPEN IN SOME SITUATIONS, YOU HAVE TO SEE THE CORRECTION COME THEN FROM OTHER PEOPLE ALSO SEEN AS LEGITIMATE AND AUTHORITATIVE WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY.

IT HAS TO BE A FELLOW REPUBLICAN WHO PUSHES BACK AGAINST THESE "THEY'RE CONTROLLING THE WEATHER" LIES.

IT HAS TO BE RIGHT-WING MEDIA AND INFLUENCERS SEEN AS AUTHORITATIVE AND RELIABLE.

IF IT'S FROM A SOURCE OUTSIDE, IT'S EASY TO SAY THE LEFT-WING MEDIA, MAINSTREAM MEDIA LIES, THEY'RE FOOLING YOU.

THAT'S THE CONTEXT WE'RE OPERATING.

>> IS IT STILL TRUE THAT THE LIE GOES FARTHER AND FASTER THAN THE CORRECTION, RESPONSE, TRUTH.

EVEN IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE SAID, CARLOS GIMENEZ, REPUBLICAN OF FLORIDA, SAID SHE SHOULD GET HER HEAD EXAMINED, ADDING THERE'S NO PLACE FOR MISINFORMATION, ESPECIALLY ON PURPOSE IN TIMES LIKE THIS.

A FEW OTHER GOP MEMBERS AND LOCAL OFFICIALS SAID THIS MISINFORMATION NEEDS TO STOP, ET CETERA.

BUT IS IT TOO LITTLE TOO LATE?

BECAUSE THE PLATFORM SHE HAS, THE RUMORS SHE'S ABLE TO SPREAD, WILL THIS KIND OF RESPONSE GET TO EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY THAT THE ORIGINAL TWEET WENT TO?

>> IN THE CASE OF MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, I DON'T GET THE SENSE SHE HAS A WIDE BASE OF SUPPORT EVEN AMONG THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

SHE'S A PARTICULAR NICHE.

SEEING OTHER REPUBLICANS COME OUT, SAY THESE ARE THE FACTS AND THIS IS THE INFORMATION IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.

IT HAPPENED IN SPRINGFIELD, GOVERNOR MIKE DeWINE, THE REPUBLICAN, SAID NO ONE IS EATING THE PETS.

BUSINESS LEADERS CAME OUT AND DID INTERVIEWS TO EXPLAIN HOW THE HAITIAN COMMUNITY WORKED IN THEIR FACTORIES, THINGS LIKE THIS.

IT HAS TO BE THE TRUSTED COUNTER SPEAKERS PUSHING BACK AGAINST IT.

>> IF YOU'RE A FAN OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT, THERE'S NO HIGHER AUTHORITY THAN HIM.

AND RECENTLY IN THE WAKE OF THESE STORMS, HE SAID, QUOTE, THEY'RE OFFERING THEM $750 TO PEOPLE WHOSE HOMES HAVE BEEN WASHED AWAY.

YET WE SEND TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES MOST OF US HAVE NEVER HEARD OF.

THE $750 PUCKS IS A DIRECT PAYMENT FOR EMERGENCY SUPPLIES, NOT THE VALUE OF THEIR HOME OR SUM TOTAL OF WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT WHAT DID HAPPEN IN THE WAKE OF THAT?

HOW DID THAT MISINFORMATION TAKE ON A DIFFERENT LIFE?

>> IT'S SEEN AS A AUTHORITATIVE STATEMENT FROM A POLITICAL LEADER.

FOR MANY PEOPLE, A HERO.

THIS IS THE STATEMENT HE PUTS OUT ON TRUTH SOCIAL AND IT'S SCREENSHOTTED AND MOVED TO TWITTER BY HIS SUPPORTERS.

SOMETIMES HE POSTS DIRECTLY TO TWITTER, TOO.

BUT YOU SEE THAT DYNAMIC OF THE PERSON WHO THEY TRUST IS CONVEYING A CERTAIN TYPE OF INFORMATION, IN THIS CASE VERY MISLEADING.

IT'S NOT WRONG, IT'S NOT FALSE, THEY'RE GETTING $750, BUT IT'S COMPLETELY DECONTEXTUALIZED.

$750 HAS YOU THEN APPLY FOR ALL THE OTHER AID YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE.

IT'S A CHALLENGING DYNAMIC.

EXPLAINING IT REQUIRES NUANCE.

THERE'S A SAYING IN POLITICS, IF YOU'RE EXPLAINING, YOU'RE LOSING.

BUT THE HARRIS CAMPAIGN AND OTHERS IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAVE TO SAY HE GOT IT WRONG, HERE ARE THE ACTUAL FACTS.

YOU SEE THE EFFORT TO GET FACTS OUT, TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE, MANY OF WHOM HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES AND REALLY HAVE LOUSY INTERNET, POWER OUT, WATER NOT WORKING, THEY HAVE MANY OTHER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT.

HEARING THIS INFORMATION DOES IMPACT HOW THEY THINK ABOUT THE RESPONSE.

YOU SEE THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF MISLEADING CLAIMS THAT TRUMP SPREAD ABOUT FEMA.

THEY'RE NOT HELPING TRUMP SUPPORTERS IS A THING THAT HE SAID AT ONE POINT.

YOU HAVE THIS DYNAMIC OF A TRUSTED OFFICIAL, TRUSTED LEADER AMPLIFYING THESE CLAIMS FOR POLITICAL ADVANTAGE, JUST TO BE CLEAR.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN MOTIVATING FACTORS HERE.

>> THERE IS A GROUP THAT LOOKED INTO THIS.

JUST 33 POSTS ON X WERE ALREADY DEBUNKED BY VARIOUS DIFFERENT SOURCES ARE 160 MILLION VIEWS.

WHAT AS ALSO INTERESTING TO ME IN SOME OF THEIR ANALYSIS, 30% OF THESE POSTS CONTAINED ANTI-SEMITIC HATE, AND SOME OF THE LARGE ACCOUNTS WITH MILLIONS OF FOLLOWERS THAT WERE SHARING THE LIES ABOUT THE STORM WERE ALSO PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN OTHER FORMS OF MIS- AND DISINFORMATION.

LIKE A VENN DIAGRAM OF PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO DO THIS ABOUT HURRICANE MILTON OR THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.

>> THEY'VE BUILT UP AN AUDIENCE BASE THAT FEELS A CERTAIN WAY TOWARDS THE GOVERNMENT OR AUTHORITY FIGURES.

EVENTS DON'T HAPPEN IN A VACUUM.

ONCE YOU'VE BUILT UP A VILLAIN, FEMA, JEWISH PEOPLE, BIDEN, TRUMP, WHOEVER IT IS, YOU CAN REFER BACK TO THEM CONSTANTLY AND CONNECT THE DOTS FOR YOUR AUDIENCE.

THERE'S A PHRASE I'VE COME TO APPRECIATE -- CONSPIRACY WITHOUT THE THEORY.

THERE'S NO ACTUAL ARGUMENT FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING.

NO COHESIVE WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING THIS THING, WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE.

BUT THERE ARE COMPLICATED THEORIES THAT GO VIRAL BECAUSE THEY'RE PHRASED IN WAYS THAT CONNECT THE DOTS TO A DIFFERENT CONSPIRACY THEORY.

GREAT REPLACEMENT, QANON.

THEY HAVE A LIFE ONLINE NOW.

IT'S NOT JUST CLOUT AND GROWING FOLLOWERS TO MONETIZE ON A DIFFERENT PLATFORM, IT'S THAT YOU CAN DIRECTLY MAKE MONEY FROM YO YOUR ENGAGEMENTS.

THE PLATFORM SETS AN INCENTIVE OFFERING PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE MONEY ON IT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS HAPPENING.

FIRST PERSON OUT OF THE GATE WITH A WILD THEORY ABOUT A HURRICANE, NATURAL DISASTER OR MASS SHOOTING, UNFORTUNATELY THE ATTENTION GOES TO YOU, WHETHER YOU HAVE THE FACTS OR NOT.

AND THE FINANCIAL PERK ALSO GOES TO YOU.

IT CREATES A SERIES OF MISGUIDED INCENTIVES IN SOME WAYS.

>> THE OTHER MAJOR CRISIS POTENTIALLY LOOMING WHEN IT COMES TO MISINFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION IS THE ELECTION CYCLE.

THE INTERNET HAS EVOLVED, NEW PLATFORMS AND TECHNOLOGIES EMERGE ALMOST EVERY FOUR YEARS.

WHAT ARE THE THREATS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHEN IT COMES TO THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS?

>> SINCE 2020, THE INTERNET HAS FRAGMENTED QUITE A BIT.

MULTIPLE NEW ENTRANTS, TRUTH SOCIAL, BLUESKY, THREADS, MASTODON.

PEOPLE HAVE LEFT TWITTER ON THE LEFT, IT'S MORE RIGHT-WING PLATFORM AT THIS POINT OR SEEN THAT WAY BY PEOPLE USING IT FOR POLITICAL COMMUNICATION.

THERE'S A FRAGMENTING OF AUDIENCES, GENERATIVE A.I.

IT'S AN ENHANCER.

NOT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE PROPAGANDA BEFORE, AND CAN'T BE JUST AS EFFECTIVE SPREADING MISLEADING INFORMATION WITHOUT GENERATIVE A.I., BUT IT IS A VERY INTERESTING TOOL UNFORTUNATELY FOR THINGS LIKE CREATING EVIDENCE TO BACKSTOP A RUMOR OR CLAIM.

SO YOU HAVE SOME SHIFTS.

ULTIMATELY IT IS GOING TO BE VERY MUCH THIS PROCESS OF RUMORS AND ELECTION OFFICIALS AND POLITICAL LEADERS AND POLITICAL INFLUENCERS IN THEIR COMMUNITIES TAKING THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND TAKING THE INSTITUTION OF DEMOCRACY SERIOUSLY AND BEING OUT THERE SPEAKING THE TRUTH, CORRECTING RECORDS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, REBUTTING RUMORS AS SOON AS INFORMATION IS KNOWN, PROACTIVE, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO SEE IN THE ELECTION AS WELL.

>> YOU WERE AT THE STANFORD INTERNET OBSERVATORY, A RESEARCH GROUP STUDYING THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU'RE NOW AT GEORGETOWN.

BUT FOR FOLKS WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT THE POLITICAL PRESSURE WAS, WHY THAT ORGANIZATION IS IN EFFECT NO LONGER AROUND, WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WE RAN A PROJECT LOOKING AT ELECTION RUMORS, IRONICALLY.

AND VACCINE RUMORS.

2020, 2021.

ELECTIONS AGAIN IN 2022, AND TRACED RUMORS.

ABOUT VOTING.

NOT HUNTER BIDEN'S LAPTOP, WHAT CANDIDATE A SAID ABOUT CANDIDATE B.

BUT WE LOOKED AT RUMORS ABOUT VOTING, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT ALLEGED FRAUD.

IN AGGREGATE, A STEADY DRUMBEAT OF RUMORS PROPELLED BY POLITICAL INFLUENCERS ON THE RIGHT TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, WHICH WAS NOT TRUE AND LED TO THE VIOLENCE OF JANUARY 6th.

REAL WORLD IMPACT.

WE DID WORK TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WAS HAPPENING.

COMMUNICATED WITH LOCAL ELECTION OFFICIALS, TO TECH PLATFORMS.

30% OF THE TIME THEY LABELED IT, 10% OF THE TIME THEY TOOK IT DOWN.

BUT IT WAS REFRAMED BY THE SITTING CONGRESSMEN WHO DENIED THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 ELECTION.

WHEN THEY GOT THEIR GAVELS, THEY LAUNCHED INVESTIGATIONS INTO US, SUBPOENAED OUR DATA AND INFORMATION, DEMANDED INTERVIEWS AND THEN THERE WERE REPORTS ALLEGING OUR RESEARCH PROJECT HAD IN FACT BEEN SOME SORT OF CABAL, A VAST CONSPIRACY THEORY TO TAKE DOWN TENS OF MILLIONS OF TWEETS.

UTTER NONSENSE BUT FOR THE BETTER PART OF A YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF NOW, GOSH, THE INSTITUTION WAS UNDER SUBPOENA AND IT DECIDED IT WAS NO LONGER GOING TO DO THE RAPID RESPONSE ELECTION RUMOR WORK.

I THINK THAT'S VERY SAD BECAUSE IT IS THAT NEED TO HAVE DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS WITH DIFFERENT INFORMATION UNDERSTANDING THE INFORMATION ENVIRONMENT TO TRY TO GET THE CORRECTIONS OUT THERE AND GET GOOD INFORMATION OUT THERE TO THE PUBLIC.

IT'S ACTUALLY TO ENHANCE COUNTER SPEECH, ENHANCE AND INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT THE PUBLIC HAS.

MY HOPE, EVEN AS THIS CONTINUES, THAT INSTITUTIONS STAND UP AND SAY NO, WE HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO DO PROTECTIVE RESEARCH AND STUDYING RUMORS TARGETING AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS IS INCREDIBLY WORTHWHILE THING FOR ACADEMIA TO PURSUE.

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.