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>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.
HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP .
>> IF THERE WERE ANY -TRAPS THEY WILL EXPLODE ON AS .
>> ISRAELI SOLDIERS ADMIT FORCING PALESTINIAN HOSTAGES TO ACT AS SHIELD AND IN GAZA.
AN EXCLUSIVE REPORT >>> AS MAINSTREAM REPUBLICANS REACT TO REPORTS OF TRUMP EXTREMISM, THE FORMER EU AMBASSADOR SWINGS AND SUPPORTING TRUMP AND BACK AGAIN.
>> THE FIGHT WE ARE IN IS OVERWHELMING.
>> IN LOUDER, THE SOUNDTRACK OF CHANGE, WELCOME MELISSA ETHERIDGE AND STACY ED ROOMS AND THEY SHOW THE POWER OF MUSIC TO SPREAD A MESSAGE.
>> THERE IS NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT WOULD RATHER HAVE OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE , OUR BIRTH RATE RIGHT NOW .
>> WE TALK WITH FORMER OBAMA ADVISOR ABOUT POLITICS AND THE ECONOMY.
>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD, LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR .
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM .
THE LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST.
MARK J. BLECHNER .
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
SETON J. MELVIN .
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
CHARLES ROSENBLUM , KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN , BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ, AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU .
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.
I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK .
IN LEBANON AND GAZA THE HUMAN TOLL OF THE WAR IN GAZA GROWS MORE SHOCKING.
OVERNIGHT AT LEAST ONE PERSON WAS KILLED AND FIVE WERE INJURED IN A SERIES OF AIRSTRIKES.
THE LEBANESE HEALTH MINISTRY CALLS THEM THE MOST VIOLENT SINCE FIGHTING BEGAN AS WELL AS REPORTING HOSPITALS BEING TARGETED AND GAZA IS AT THE BREAKING POINT.
THAT IS ACCORDING TO A U.N. REPORT THAT CLAIMS THAT ISRAEL IS --STANDARD OF LIVING BACK TO 1955 LEVELS.
THE IDF IT JUSTIFIES THIS CLAIMING THAT HAMAS AND HEZBOLLAH ARE DEEPLY EMBEDDED AMONGST CIVILIANS WHICH MAKES A CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND INVESTIGATES CLAIMS THAT THEY ARE FORCING PALESTINIANS TO ACT AS HUMAN SHIELDS IN GAZA TO AVOID PUTTING THEIR OWN TROOPS IN HARMS WAY.
>> Reporter: THEY WALKED THROUGH THE RUBBLE AT GUNPOINT INTO POTENTIALLY -TRAPPED BUILDINGS AND DOWNED --DOWN DARKENED TUNNELS.
SOME WERE TEENAGERS LIKE 17- YEAR-OLD MOHAMMED.
OTHERS WERE GRANDPARENTS.
THESE FIVE PALESTINIANS , ALL CIVILIANS, SAY THE ISRAELI MILITARY DETAIN THEM AND USE THEM AS HUMAN SHIELDS.
>> LANGUAGE ] >> Reporter: NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, AN ISRAELI SOLDIER IS COMING FORWARD WITH HIS OWN ACCOUNT.
SAYING THEY USED PALESTINIANS AS HUMAN SHIELDS.
>> WE TOLD THEM TO ENTER THE BUILDING BEFORE US AND IF THERE WERE -TRAPS IT WOULD EXPLODE ON THEM AND NOT US.
>> Reporter: WE BLURT HIS FACE AND CHANGED HIS VOICE BECAUSE OF REPRISALS.
BREAKING SILENCE, A WATCHDOG GROUP PROVIDED PHOTOGRAPHS AND FACILITATED THE INTERVIEW.
THE SOLDIERS SAYS A 16-YEAR-OLD BOY AND A 20-YEAR-OLD MAN WERE BROUGHT TO HIS UNIT THIS SPRING.
>> THEIR HANDS WERE TIED BEHIND THEIR BACK AND A CLOTH OVER THEIR EYES.
>> Reporter: THE INSTRUCTIONS FROM AN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER WORK CLEARED.
>> HE TOLD ME TO USE THEM AS A HUMAN SHIELD.
HE SAID THAT THEY HAVE A CONNECTION TO HAMAS.
>> Reporter: HIS UNIT FOLLOW THOSE ORDERS FOR TWO DAYS.
THIS PHOTO CAPTURES THE SCENE.
THE SILHOUETTE OF A PALESTINIAN MAN FLANKED BY TWO SOLDIERS ORDERING HIM FORWARD.
>> WHEN WE WENT TO THE ATTACK, WE TOOK THE CLOTH OFF SO THEY COULD SEE.
ONE OF THE SOLDIERS NEW ARABIC AND HE SAID OPEN THE DOOR .
THEY WERE USING THEM BECAUSE THEY THINK THIS BUILDING MIGHT BE -TRAPPED?
>> YES.
SOLDIERS DID NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL AND THEY REFUSED TO DO IT.
>> Reporter: THE SOLDIERS TOOK THEIR CONCERNS TO THE SENIOR COMMANDER TELLING THEM BUT THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL LAW.
>> THE COMMANDER SAID THE SOLDIER DOES NOT NEED TO THINK ABOUT INTERNATIONAL LAW.
>> HE DID NOT SAY YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING THIS.
THE SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING.
>> HE SAID WE NEED TO DO THIS AND OUR LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT.
>> SO HE SAID KEEP DOING IT?
>> YES .
>> Reporter: EVENTUALLY THE COMMANDER RELENTED TELLING THEM THEY COULD RELEASE THE PALESTINIANS.
>> SUDDENLY YOU WERE ALLOWED TO RELEASE.
>> YES.
>> Reporter: THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS THE DIRECTIVES AND GUIDELINES PROHIBIT THE USE CIVILIANS FOR MILITARY OPERATIONS.
THE RELEVANT PROTOCOLS AND INSTRUCTION ARE ROUTINELY CLARIFIED TO THE SOLDIERS IN THE FIELD DURING THE CONFLICT.
BUT THE ISRAELI MILITARY USE OF HUMAN SHIELDS APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN WIDESPREAD.
SO COMMON IT EVEN HAD A NAME, MOSQUITO PROTOCOL.
BOTH ISRAELI AND INTERNATIONAL LAW AND THE USE OF CIVILIANS IN COMBAT.
ISRAEL ACCUSES HAMAS OF USING THEM AS SHIELDS.
TUNNELS DUG BENEATH HOMES AND ROCKETS FIRED FROM RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
>> FOR ME IT IS MORE PAINFUL WITH MY OWN ARMY.
HAMAS IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.
THEY SHOULD NOT USE THOSE PRACTICES.
>> Reporter: WHEN YOU HEAR SPOKESPEOPLE FOR THE ISRAELI MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT SAYING THE ISRAELI MILITARY IS THE MOST MORAL ARMY IN THE WORLD.
>> THAT IS --.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT.
>> Reporter: ONE DOCTOR KNOWS MONTHS AFTER HE SAYS ISRAELI SOLDIERS FORCED HIM TO RISK HIS LIFE HE CANNOT SHAKE THIS TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE.
>> THE SOLAR SERGEANT ASKED ME TO COME AND HE SAID HE WOULD KILL ME IF I DIDN'T.
I WAS THINKING I WOULD DIE WITHIN MINUTES .
>> Reporter: HIS BRUSH WITH DEATH AND THE DAY HE FEARED HE WOULD NEVER AGAIN SEE HIS FAMILY.
>> JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTING ON A DEEPLY DISTURBING DEVELOPMENT.
WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST LOOMS OVER THE AMERICAN ELECTION IN A TOWN HALL LAST NIGHT, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE KAMALA HARRIS SAID, "FAR TOO MANY PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED HERE" SHE CALLED FOR RENEWED EFFORTS TOWARDS A TWO STATE RESOLUTION.
SHE TALKED ABOUT WARNINGS FROM TRUMP DEVOTEES AND THEY 911 CALL TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
THE AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPEAN HIS SUPPORT FOR TRUMP WAS OFF THE TABLE AND NOW HE SAYS HE WILL VOTE FOR TRUMP.
I ASKED ABOUT THAT IN NEW YORK.
>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
>> NICE TO BE WITH YOU.
>> YOU HAVE BEEN PRO-, ANTI-, AND NOW PRO TRUMP AGAIN.
YOU SAID THAT YOU WOULD NOT SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS REELECTION BECAUSE OF JANUARY 6 AND YOU TOLD THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, "WE ARE THE MOST ADMIRED AROUND THE WORLD FOR THE WAY WE TURN OVER POWER AND I WILL SUPPORT HIM."
BUT NOW YOU ARE SUPPORTING HIM.
>> IT WAS NOT ANYONE'S FINEST HOUR BUT I HAVE TO PUT JANUARY 6 INTO % OF COMPARED TO FOUR YEARS UNDER THE BIDEN AND HARRIS ADMINISTRATION.
IT QUARTERS FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT TO A NATIONAL SECURITY STANDPOINT.
CONFIDENCE OF OUR ALLIES AND THE WAY THEY HAVE TREATED ISRAEL.
I CAN GO DOWN THE LIST.
IT PALES IN COMPARISON TO WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6.
>> YOU SAY THAT BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE SAND WASHING.
THAT WAS A FULL-SCALE ASSAULT ON THE CENTER OF DEMOCRATIC POWER AND THE REFUSAL TO ACCEPT LOSS AND HER REFUSAL TO HANDOVER PEACEFULLY AS TRADITION AND LAW STATES.
YOU CAN'T REALLY SAY IT WAS NOTHING IN COMPARISON.
CAN YOU?
YOU MIGHT SUPPORT HIM BUT YOU CAN'T PLAY DOWN SOMETHING THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS SO AWFUL AT THE TIME AND THAT SO MANY THINK IS AWFUL AROUND THE WORLD.
>> I AM NOT PLAYING IT DOWN IN ANY WAY, CHRISTIANE.
IT WAS NOT A GOOD DAY AND TRUMP LOST THE ELECTION IN 2020.
WERE THERE ANOMALIES AND VOTING ERRORS?
WAS THERE FRAUD?
OF COURSE THERE WAS.
DID IT CHANGE THE OUTCOME?
IT DID NOT.
JOE BIDEN SALLY BECAME THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
>> YOU SAY SADLY.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR ISSUE WHICH IS THE ECONOMY.
YOU SAID THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A BETTER ECONOMY AND YOU THINK THAT TRUMP WILL DO BETTER.
RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE 23 NOBEL PRIZE-WINNING ECONOMISTS CALLING THE KAMALA HARRIS PLANS APPEAR YEAR.
IT WILL IMPROVE SUSTAINABILITY, EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND FAIRNESS WILL BE -- COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO THE TRUMP AGENDA.
THE ECONOMY, --THE ECONOMIST SAYS, "THE U.S. ECONOMY IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD.
WILL QUOTE INSIDE THE HEADLINE SAYS THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IS BIGGER AND BETTER THAN EVER .
THEN THEY GO ON TO SAY TRUMP AND HIS TARIFFS WILL POSE A BIGGER THREAT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THEIR ECONOMIC HEALTH AND SPIKE INFLATION.
WHAT ABOUT THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH?
>> I DISAGREE WITH THE WHOLE THING.
I THINK PEOPLE MISUNDERSTAND HOW TRUMP HAS USED THE TARIFFS AND HOW HE WILL LIKELY CONTINUE TO USE THE TARIFFS.
HE USES IT THE WAY THAT A DOG USES A SHOCK COLLAR.
THEY PUSH THE BUTTON TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THE DOG AND IN THE CASE OF TARIFFS THERE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS NO MORE IMMEDIATE IMPACT WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO GET A THIRD PARTY TO THE TABLE TO DISCUSS AN ISSUE OF VITAL IMPORTANCE TO THE U.S. INTEREST THAN TO THREATEN TARIFFS AND IN FACT TEMPORARILY IMPOSE THEM, IF NECESSARY, IN ORDER TO EXTRACT THE BEHAVIOR THAT YOU WANT.
I SAW A FIRST-HAND EXAMPLE OF THAT WITH THE AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURERS IN EUROPE WHEN WE THREATENED TARIFFS AND THEY CAME TO THE TABLE WITHIN DAYS.
NORMALLY THROUGH NORMAL ECONOMIC DIALOGUE, SOMETIMES THIS CAN TAKE DECADES SO TARIFFS ARE EFFECTIVE WHEN USED CORRECTLY.
>> THAT IS THE QUESTION.
WILL THEY BE USED CORRECTLY?
-- DISAGREES 100% ON TARIFFS AND TOLD TRUMP SO DURING A WEEKEND INTERVIEW.
HE SAYS IT IS THE LOVELIEST WORD IN THE DICTIONARY BUT IT MEANS A TAX ON THE AMERICAN CONSUMER AND IT IS, ACCORDING TO ALL OF THESE ECONOMISTS, AN INFLATION BOOSTER.
THAT IS ONE THING BUT THE NEXT THING IS, THE HUGE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION, EVIDENCE, AND FAX COMING OUT ABOUT TRUMP AND HIS ANTIDEMOCRATIC LEANINGS.
HE DOES PRAISE PEOPLE LIKE VLADIMIR PUTIN AND XI JINPING.
THEY RULED BY DICTATE.
YOU JUST HEARD A FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL UNDER TRUMP AND THE LONGEST- SERVING CHIEF OF STAFF SAY THAT HE FEARS THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF IT AND HE ALSO SAID TRUMP HAS AN AFFINITY FOR ASPECTS OF HITLER.
LISTEN TO THIS.
>> HE COMMENTED MORE THAN ONCE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT TAYLOR DID SOME GOOD THINGS TOO.
AND OF COURSE, IF YOU KNOW HISTORY, AGAIN, I THINK HE'S LACKING IN THAT, BUT IF YOU KNOW WHAT HITLER WAS ALL ABOUT, IT WOULD BE PRETTY HARD TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT HE DID ANYTHING GOOD."
>> SERIOUSLY, AMBASSADOR, THE PLACES THAT YOU WERE AMBASSADOR, ENCODE GERMANY AND IN THE INTERNATIONAL ALLIED GROUP, HOW DO YOU EVEN EXPLAIN THIS?
YOU CAN'T DISMISS THAT AS NOT A BIG DEAL .
>> I NEVER DISMISS ANYTHING AS NOT SUCH A BIG DEAL THAT IS I AM JEWISH AND THE SON OF HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS.
MY RADAR IS ALWAYS UP WHEN I SENSE ANTI-SEMITISM JUST AS AFRICAN-AMERICAN OR BLACK PEOPLE SENDS WHEN SOMEONE IS PREJUDICE, EVEN IF THEY DON'T SAY IT OUT LOUD.
PEOPLE GET A SPIDEY SENSE.
IN THE SITUATION WITH TRUMP I HAVE BEEN AROUND HIM AND I KNOW ONE OF HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS FOR 40 YEARS THAT IS JEWISH.
HE HAS A JEWISH DAUGHTER AND A JEWISH SON-IN-LAW.
IF I SENSED EVEN A SCINTILLA OF ANTI-SEMITISM IN TRUMP I WOULD NOT HAVE SERVED WITH HIM.
>> I AM NOT NECESSARILY TALKING ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM.
I AM TALKING ABOUT HIS AFFINITY FOR TOTAL LOYALTY FOR LIKE HE SAID, HITLER'S GENERAL SHOW.
>> LET'S LEAVE HITLER OUT OF IT.
>> NO, BECAUSE HE SAID IT .
>> THIS IS JOHN KELLY WHO HAS AN ASK TO GRIND.
>> JOHN KELLY IS A CONSERVATIVE AND AN OFFICIAL OF HOMELAND SECURITY.
HE WAS AN OFFICIAL AT A TOP LEVEL IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
WHAT ACTS DOES HE HAVE TO GRIND?
TRUMP HAS SAID THESE THINGS AND HE DINED WITH NICK ONE TEZ.
>> HE HAS SOME --SCHEDULERS BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT JOHN KELLY.
I HAVE THE HIGHEST RESPECT FOR JOHN KELLY AND HIS SERVICE AND I BELIEVE HE SERVED WITH DISTINCTION.
FOR JOHN KELLY TO COME OUT TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE ELECTION I THINK IS A BIT DISINGENUOUS.
THAT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY MY ADMIRATION FOR HIS SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT I AM GOING TO PUSH BACK.
HE SAID IT IS IN THE PAST.
HE SAID AND MARK MILLIE, DOES HE WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS AND HE SAID WE ARE AFRAID --SO THAT TRUMP CAN FULFILL HIS RETRIBUTION PROMISE AND COURT-MARTIALED LESS.
HE ALSO SAYS HE IS FASCIST TO THE BONE.
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY TOP SERVING PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY ARE SCARED OF TRUMP 2.0.
>> MY OWN EXPERIENCE WITH TRUMP IS THERE WAS TRUMP THE PRESIDENT AND TRUMP THE SHOW.
I HAD ENOUGH PERSONAL INTERACTION WITH HIM THROUGH PHONE CALLS, THROUGH MEETINGS ON SERIOUS MATTERS WHERE THE SHOW WAS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.
HE WAS FOCUSED AND DECISIVE.
IT DID HE ALWAYS GIVE THE RIGHT ANSWER?
NO .
HE IS NOT PERFECT.
HE IS HUMAN.
WHEN THAT WAS OVER THE SHOW WOULD BEGIN.
CONFERENCES, THE ALLUSIONS TO PEOPLE'S GENITALIA.
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO PUT ON THE LIST.
THAT IS PART OF THE TRUMP BRAND AND THAT IS WHAT GIVES HIM THE TEFLON COATING TO BE ABLE TO SAY THINGS TO PEOPLE THAT NO ONE ELSE WOULD SAY BUT, DO I BELIEVE DOWN TO HIS CORE THAT HE IS FASCIST OR ANTI-SEMITIC?
ABSOLUTELY NOT OR I WOULD NOT BE SITTING HERE.
>> I WOULD STILL LIKE YOU TO EXAMINE AND THINK ABOUT WHY HE BUYERS AT VLADIMIR PUTIN SO MUCH?
>> I HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT .
HE IS VERY COUNTERINTUITIVE.
MOST PRESIDENTS, WHETHER DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, CONDEMN THOSE PEOPLE AND THOSE PEOPLE, XI JINPING, PUTIN, THEY SIT BACK IN THEIR CAPITAL AND THEY LAUGH.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES CONDEMNED ME AND I GUESS I WON'T SLEEP TONIGHT .
IN TRUMP'S CASEY DOES THE COUNTERINTUITIVE THING.
VLADIMIR, YOU ARE SMART, TOUGH, PEOPLE DO WHAT YOU TELL THEM TO DO AND HE SAYS THAT IN PUBLIC AND IT PUTS THEM ON THEIR HEELS BUT IN PRIVATE HE WILL SAY, VLADIMIR, YOU ARE GREAT BUT DON'T TAKE UKRAINE BECAUSE I WILL HAVE TO BOMB THE CRAP OUT OF YOU.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT UKRAINE AND I AM NOT SURE HE MEANS IT.
WHEN I RUN ATTACKED SAUDI ARABIAN AIRFREIGHT --OIL FIELDS, DONALD TRUMP DID NOT GO TO THE RESCUE AND HELP SAUDI ARABIA AND THAT IS AN ALLIANCE.
WHAT I WANT TO ASK IS THIS.
YOU ARE A BIG SUPPORTER OF UKRAINE.
DO YOU THINK THAT UKRAINE CAN EXPECT ACTUAL HELP FROM A DONALD TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO FIGHT AGAINST PUTIN?
HE FULLY TORPEDOED AND DELAYED THE DELIVERY OF WEAPONS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE RESULT APPARENTLY COMING TO RUSSIA TO HELP FIGHT UKRAINE.
>> I BELIEVE HE WILL SUPPORT UKRAINE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
HE ACTUALLY SHOWED A LITTLE CUFF TO YOUR COLLEAGUE WHEN -- WAS TALKING TO ZELINSKI AND HE SAID HE HAD HEARD FROM TRUMP RECENTLY.
WE HAD A TELEPHONE CALL AND PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID, ESSENTIALLY, DON'T WORRY, I HAVE YOUR BACK AND I BELIEVE THAT.
I THINK HE WANTS TO BE THE ONE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND THAT IS PART OF HIS PERSONA.
HE WANTS TO BE THE PROBLEM SOLVER AND NOT GIVE ANYONE ELSE CREDIT.
>> SO I HAVE NOT SEEN MANY INTERNATIONAL PROBLEMS SOLVED UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AT I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE NORTH KOREAN SOLDIERS.
THAT IS A REAL WORRY.
>> WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THE NORTH KOREAN SOLDIERS, YOU ARE A SOLDIER DESPERATE TO GET OUT.
YOU ARE STARVING AND NOT BEING PAID WELL AND THEY SAY YOU GET TO GO TO RUSSIA AND YOU GET TO FIGHT FOR THE RUSSIANS AND BECOME PART OF THE RUSSIAN MEAT GRINDER AND LOOK WHO IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
UKRAINE, WESTERN DEMOCRACY.
A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE LAYING DOWN ARMS AND EFFECTING TO UKRAINE AND I THINK THERE WILL BE AN INTELLIGENCE TROVE DELIVERED TO US THROUGH UKRAINE BY DEFECTING NORTH KOREAN SOLDIERS.
>> THAT IS SO INTERESTING.
THIS IS THE FIRST WE ARE HEARING OF THAT AND IT IS AN INTERESTING COUNTERINTUITIVE POINT.
THANK YOU FOR TELLING US ABOUT THAT .
I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE SHOW MAN AND THE REAL MAN.
HE HAS A DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT AUDIENCES ABOUT SENDING THE MILITARY AGAINST HIS ENEMIES FROM WITHIN.
ON FOX HE HAS DOUBLE DOWN TWICE AND TO THE WALL STREET JOURNAL HE SAID HE WOULD NOT DO IT SO WE DON'T KNOW.
CERTAINLY HIS OPPONENTS ARE CONCERNED.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT , I AM GOING TO PLAY FOR YOU THIS THING THAT TUCKER CARLSON IN THE TRUMP CAMP SAID RECENTLY THIS WEEK ABOUT TRUMP COMING BACK.
JUST LISTEN.
IT WAS AT THE INTRODUCTION OF A RALLY.
>> THERE HAS TO BE A POINT AT WHICH DAD COMES HOME.
DAD COMES HOME.
AND HE IS TOO.
>> WHEN HE GETS HOME, YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAYS?
YOU HAVE BEEN A BAD GIRL AND YOU ARE GETTING A VIGOROUS SPANKING RIGHT NOW.
>> A BAD GIRL?
WHAT IS THIS?
>> I KNOW TUCKER.
HE IS A FRIEND AND WHAT CAN I SAY.
IT WAS A PERFORMANCE.
HERE'S THE SITUATION.
YOU HAVE A MASSIVE FEDERAL BUREAUCRACY THAT IS ACCOUNTABLE RIGHT NOW TO NO ONE.
YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF NAMELESS FACELESS GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES WHO WERE NOT ELECTED BY ANYONE VERY IMPORTANT POLICY DECISIONS AND WHETHER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS RE-ELECTED OR VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IS, I HOPE THAT THEIR OWN PERSONAL AGENDAS FOR THE COUNTRY, WHICH IS WHY THEY WERE ELECTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, IS FOLLOWED BY THIS VAST GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY AND IT WON'T BE WITHOUT SOME VERY TOUGH LOVE.
>> FINALLY, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IF HE LOSES THAT TRUMP WILL ACCEPT THE RESULTS, NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE?
>> I THINK IF HE LOSES FAIR AND SQUARE, HE WILL.
>> THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF CHEATING NOT THEN AND NOT NOW.
>> I HAVE SAID THAT BEFORE.
>> AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU.
>>> AS FOR TRUMP'S PROCLIVITIES HE TOLD HUGH HEWITT THAT HE WOULD FILE A SPECIAL COUNSEL JACK SMITH WITHIN TWO SECONDS IF RE-ELECTED.
NEXT TO HOW CULTURE AND THE ARTS TRANSFORM SOCIETY.
A NEW DOCUMENTARY LOUDER, THE SOUNDTRACK OF CHANGE TAKES A LOOK AT HOW MUSIC HAS HELPED INSPIRE ACTIVISM AND DRIVE POLITICAL MOVEMENT ESPECIALLY ONE POWERED BY FEMALE MUSICIANS.
HERE IS SOME OF THE TRAILER.
>> MUSIC IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL WAYS TO GET A MESSAGE OUT THERE.
>> IT IS A PAINFUL THING TO TELL A DARK STORY .
>> WE HAVE LEARNED THAT THE LOUDER YOU ARE, THE MORE THE FORCES OF SUPPRESSION TRY TO SILENCE YOU.
>> EARLIER I SPOKE WITH PRODUCER AND VOTING RIGHTS ACTIVIST SIDNEY ABRAMS --STACY ABRAMS AND MELISSA ETHERIDGE.
>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> STACY, THIS IS CALLED LOUDER AND IT IS ABOUT WOMEN MAKING CHANGE IN MUSIC.
I GET WHY MELISSA IS DOING THIS.
WAS THERE A MOMENT IN MUSIC AND ACTIVISM THAT TRIGGERED YOU TO MAKE YOU FEEL THIS WAY?
>> I GREW UP IN THE DEEP SOUTH WHERE MUSIC IS PART OF THE HERITAGE OF PROTEST AND HOW WE UNDERSTOOD OUR RIGHT TO EXPAND OUR RIGHTS BUT A SIMILAR MOMENT FOR ME WAS TRACY CHAPMAN AND LISTENING TO HER TALKING ABOUT A REVOLUTION .
THAT SOLIDIFIED THE CONNECTION BETWEEN MUSIC AND ACTION AND THE POWER OF A SINGLE VOICE TO ARTICULATE WHAT CAN SOMETIMES FEEL OVERWHELMING AND TO GIVE YOU THIS VERY CHISELED SENSE OF DIRECTION.
>> MELISSA, SO MANY GROUNDBREAKING FEMALE ARTISTS ARE IN THIS DOCUMENTARY AND WE HAVE SHOWN MANY OF THEM IN THE TRAILER.
DOLLY PARTON, LINDA RONSTADT, TRACY CHAPMAN AND BEYONCÉ .
YOU HAVE SAID MUSIC HAS THE ABILITY TO BYPASS THE BRAIN.
>> THAT MEANS THAT A SONG CAN OBVIOUSLY IMPACT YOUR FEELINGS AND CAN IMPACT YOUR THOUGHTS EVEN BUT MOSTLY, HOW YOU FEEL WITHOUT FIRST ANALYZING IT .
MUSIC CAN GO RIGHT INTO YOUR SOUL AND CAN LIFT YOU UP OR MAKE YOU THINK OR REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING AND IT IS AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL TOOL FOR CHANGE.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT THE PERSONAL IMPACT THAT YOU BOTH HAVE HAD.
THE SINGER LORETTA LYNN IN 1975, THE GREAT COUNTRY SINGER WROTE A SONG ABOUT A BIRTH CONTROL PILL.
MANY PEOPLE WERE NOT HAPPY AND THE DOCUMENTARY, YOU SAY, THE U ARE THE MORE THAT FORCES OF OPPRESSION WILL TRY TO SILENCE YOU.
WHAT KIND OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE DO YOU HAVE WITH BEING SHUT DOWN ?
>> I AM A WOMAN OF COLOR IN THE POLITICAL SPACE THAT IS NOT WELCOME BUT PART OF THE RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT JUST TO THINK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE BUT WHO WILL FOLLOW.
WHO ELSE IS NOT BEING HEARD ?
WHO ELSE DOESN'T KNOW THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHOW UP AND THAT IS WHY THIS DOCUMENTARY AND THE SONGS ARE SO TRANSFORMATIVE.
AT WOMEN LIKE LORETTA LYNN USED HER POSITION AND PRIVILEGE TO SAY I AM JUST LIKE THE REST OF YOU AND I WILL SAY OUT LOUD WHAT SOME OF YOU ARE EITHER AFRAID OF OR RIGHTLY, TOO OPPRESSED TO SAY YOURSELF.
TO ME IT IS EVERY TIME THAT I SPEAK UP ABOUT AN ISSUE, EVERY TIME I FACE A CHALLENGE AND EVERY TIME SOMEONE SAYS YOU SHOULD NOT SAY THAT BECAUSE IT COULD BE CONTROVERSIAL, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE RIGHT.
OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO SAY THAT OUR OWN PERSONAL POSITION A LADY IS IRRELEVANT.
IT IS WHAT CAN WE DO FOR OTHERS AND HOW CAN WE USE OUR STORIES AND OUR MOMENT TO EXPAND OPPORTUNITIES FOR OTHERS?
>> MELISSA I THINK THE MUSIC WORLD IS MORE FORGIVING.
YOU CAN BE MORE LOUD WITH MORE ACCEPTANCE.
DO YOU FIND THAT ?
OR ARE YOU PUT DOWN FOR BEING LOUD?
>> YOU CAN BE LOUD TO A POINT IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS.
I WAS RAISED IN THE 60s AND 70s AND BY THE TIME I WAS MAKING MUSIC PROFESSIONALLY IT WAS THE 80s AND EARLY 90s AND THIS WAS A GREAT TIME OF CHANGE AND A TIME OF FEAR AND OF COURSE, I CAME OUT PUBLICLY AS A LESBIAN AND THAT WAS DEFINITELY NOT TO BE SPOKEN OF ALLOWED OR LOUDLY AND ALTHOUGH I CAN'T SAY I FELT A LOT OF PRESSURE NOT TO I KNEW THAT THIS WAS OUT OF THE NORM AND IT WAS GOING TO MAKE SOME PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE.
>> INDEED YOU SAID ONCE YOU HAD DONE THAT, ALL ANY INTERVIEWER WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WAS THAT, YOU COMING OUT .
THEN LATER ON YOU WROTE A SONG BASICALLY, I AM THE ONLY ONE.
THE MUSIC VIDEO SHOWCASED TWO WOMEN AND IT WAS NOT AS DRAMATICALLY RECEIVED AS YOU MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT.
>> THEY WERE LOOKING AT EACH OTHER AND I THOUGHT I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEY SAY THEY WON'T PLAY IT BUT IT WAS A HUGE VIDEO.
>> I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU VIEW YOUR SELF IN THE ARK OF THE ACCEPTANCE OF MANY SINGERS IN THE MUSIC WORLD?
>> I CAME OUT AT A TIME WHEN THE GAY COMMUNITY NEED TO BE HEARD BECAUSE WE WERE DYING OF AIDS AND THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT NEEDED TO BE PUSHED TO THE FRONT BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY OF MY FRIENDS WORKING IN THE POLITICAL SPACE THAT WERE DOING SO MUCH INSIDE IN WASHINGTON TRYING TO BRING THIS TO THE FOREFRONT.
AND, FINALLY, COMING OUT, I THINK IT WAS EVERYONE WAS KIND OF WAITING TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND WHEN, WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS FELT IS IF I MAKE MUSIC THAT MOVES PEOPLE.
IF I MAKE GOOD MUSIC THAT PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR THEY ARE GOING TO OVERLOOK OR GO WELL, SHE IS GAY BUT MAYBE THAT IS NOT SO BAD BECAUSE I REALLY LIKE THE MUSIC.
I BELIEVE THE MUSIC REALLY CARRIED THAT AND THIS WAS BEFORE SOCIAL MEDIA SO SOME PEOPLE HEARD THE MUSIC FIRST AND THEN THEY READ THE NEWSPAPER LATER THAT SAID I WAS SO IT WAS A DIFFERENT SORT OF SLOW , KIND OF A SLOW BURN INTO THE PUBLIC THAT THIS ACCEPTANCE WAS SLOWLY COMING ALONG.
I REMEMBER A MAN BROUGHT HIS DAUGHTER TO MY SHOW AND ONCE THEY FOUND OUT I WAS GAY THEY WEREN'T SURE THEY WOULD GO AND AFTER THEY WENT THEY SAID THEY WERE SO GLAD THEY CHANGED THEIR MINDS AND THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.
YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE THAT GREAT EXPERIENCE.
>> STACY I WANT TO ASK ABOUT CHANGING MINDS AND THE CURRENT ELECTION.
WITH ALL OF THE GAPS AND THE DIVIDING LINES, THE NEW YORK TIMES SAYS THAT TRUMP LEADS HARRIS AMONG YOUNG MEN, 58-37 WHERE IS HARRIS LEADS AMONG STACY, IS THAT A GOOD THING FOR SOCIETY?
IS IT OBVIOUS THAT THERE WOULD BE SUCH A GENDER GAP OR NOT?
HOW DO YOU ASSESS AND ASSIMILATE THOSE NUMBERS?
>> I BEGIN WITH A LARGE GRAIN OF SALT.
THESE ARE SURVEYS OF COMMUNITIES TRYING TO ASSESS LONG-TERM BASED ON SHORT-TERM QUESTIONS.
WE HAVE ONE CANDIDATE IN KAMALA HARRIS THAT IS RESPONDING DIRECTLY TO WOMEN LOSING THE RIGHT TO CONTROL THEIR BODIES.
WE HAVE 28 STATES WITH IT GESTATIONAL BANDS AND WE KNOW THAT FOR WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY THEIR LIVES ARE AT STAKE AND THERE ARE WOMEN DYING EVEN IN GEORGIA , MY HOME STATE, BECAUSE OF THESE LAWS.
WE KNOW FOR YOUNG MEN THERE HAVE BEEN STRONG CHALLENGES PARTICULARLY FOCUSED ON THE TO NAVIGATE IN A TIME WHEN SOMEONE LIKE DONALD TRUMP IS PITTING PEOPLE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER AND UNDERMINING THE POTENTIAL THAT MOST OF US HAVE SO WHAT I LOOK TO IS THAT THE GENDER ISSUES ARE GROUNDED AND WHAT IS POSSIBLE AND WHO IS WILLING TO THINK ABOUT THAT POSSIBILITY.
KAMALA HARRIS HAS BEEN MORE ARTICULATE AND INTENTIONAL ABOUT THIS SO WHERE PROTEST MUSIC ENTERS THE CONVERSATION, IT SAYS WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO PARTICIPATION .
WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO OPPORTUNITY AND INCLUSION AS MELISSA TALKS ABOUT.
I HEAR ABOUT THE GENDER GAP BUT WHAT I DO IS I HAVE A LIVED REALITY WHERE OFTEN THE QUESTIONS OF HOUSING, HEALTHCARE, STARTING YOUR OWN BUSINESS, THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT RESONATE ACROSS THE BOARD AND IT IS A QUESTION OF WHO CAN PROVE IT.
THIS IS WHEN A WOMAN CAN PROVE THAT WE CAN GET THE JOB DONE AND FOR ME THAT IS A TRANSFORMATIVE MOMENT AND I WANT TO BE LOUDER ABOUT THAT.
>> BEFORE I GET BACK TO THE PROTEST MUSIC, STACY, I WANT TO ASK YOU --YOU ARE HEAVILY CREDITED WITH MAKING GEORGIA FOR THE DEMOCRATS IN 2020 -- HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT COME ALLAH HARRIS'S CHANCES ?
>> LET'S BE CLEAR I WAS JUST LOUDER THAN A LOT OF FOLKS ABOUT WHAT WAS POSSIBLE IN GEORGIA BUT WE ARE A PURPLE STATE.
THIS IS A COMPETITIVE RACE AND YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE BOTH CANDIDATES ARE COMING HERE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
WE ARE EXCITED TO HAVE VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS AND FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA COMING TO THE STATE.
WE KNOW THAT ATTEMPTED VOTER SUPPRESSION IS NOT WORKING.
OR VOTERS WHO WERE TOLD THEY CANNOT VOTE BY MAIL ARE FINDING OTHER WAYS TO CAST BALLOTS DESPITE WHAT REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS EVERYONE IN THE STATE IS EXCITED ABOUT TURNING OUT AND BEING ENGAGED AND THEY KNOW THAT THIS ELECTION MATTERS BECAUSE GEORGIA MATTERS AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO SEE.
>> MELISSA, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN SHY ABOUT POLITICAL ENDORSEMENTS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MAKE OF THE IMPACT OF A, LET'S SAY CELEBRITY POLITICAL ENDORSEMENT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE IMPACT OF SAY, TAYLOR SWIFT, WHO HAS SUCH A DEVOTED FOLLOWING, WROTE WHY SHE IS ENDORSING KAMALA HARRIS.
THE OPPOSITE TO THAT IS, CHAPEL ROAN WON'T ENDORSE WHO SHE WILL VOTE FOR.
SHE GOT A WHOLE LOAD OF PUSHBACK FROM FANS FOR REFUSING TO ENDORSE.
>> IT IS REALLY A FINE LINE BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF ENTERTAINMENT AND THAT IS AND MAKING THEM FORGET THEIR TROUBLES AND ENTERTAINING THEM AND WHEN YOU PERSONALLY STEP OUT AND SAY THIS ELECTION MEANS A LOT TO ME AS A WOMAN, AS A GAY PERSON AND THIS IS WHY .
I THINK USE AND FEAR HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THAT .
HER COMING FROM THE MIDWEST, AND I AM ALSO FROM THE MIDWEST, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
IT IS VERY HARD TO BREAK OUT OF THAT POLITICS AND PERSONAL.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY THIS ELECTION.
THE IMPACT ON SO MANY WOMEN AND YOU GET THESE ARTISTS WHO IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS RIGHT NOW, WOMEN ARE BY FAR THE TOP ARTISTS.
>> LET ME ALSO ASK YOU, LOOKING AT THE TRAILERS AND THE DOCUMENTARY, ALL OF THE WOMEN ARE PROGRESSIVE WOMEN.
WHAT ABOUT WOMEN WHO MIGHT BE MORE CONSERVATIVE OR WHO MAY EVEN SUPPORT TRUMP?
WHY ARE THEY NOT FEATURED?
>> PROTEST MUSIC INHERENTLY IS ABOUT PUSHING AGAINST A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR YOU .
A SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT SEE YOU AND IT DOES NOT RESPECT YOU.
TRADITIONALLY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT SYSTEM HAS BEEN CONSERVATIVE SO MOST OF THE PROTEST MUSIC HAS BEEN IN RESPONSE TO CONSERVATIVE LAWS AND BELIEF SYSTEMS.
THE CHALLENGE WITH DOING PROTEST MUSIC THAT HAS A CONSERVATIVE VOICE IS THAT WE HAVE NOT CREATED A SPACE WHERE PROTEST HAS COME FROM.
BY AND LARGE PROTEST MUSIC FOR WOMEN HAS BEEN ABOUT HOW DO WE FULLY INSERT OURSELVES INTO THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF THE COUNTRY .
HOW DO WE HAVE FULL ACCESS TO THE PROMISES OF THE COUNTRY.
AMERICAN DREAM?
TO DATE THAT HAS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY COME FROM A PLACE OF PROGRESS.
WE WANT TO MOVE FROM WHERE WE ARE TO WHERE WE CAN GO AND PROGRESS BEYOND THE POLITICAL IS ABOUT CHANGE AND SAYING WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING MORE OR ADDITIVE SO IF YOU ARE LOOKING THROUGH THE PANTHEON OF SINGERS WHO HAVE DONE PROTEST MUSIC YOU WERE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY GOING TO FIND WOMEN WHO ARE PROTESTING IN A SPACE CONSIDERED PROGRESSIVE BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT BETTER FOR EVERYONE.
>> STACEY ABRAMS, MELISSA ETHERIDGE, LOUDER .
THANK YOU.
>>> LET'S RETURN NOW TO THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND THE ECONOMY.
FROM INFLATION TO TARIFFS AND THE IMPACT OF IMMIGRATION.
WHICH WOULD EACH CANDIDATE APPROACH LOOK LIKE IN PRACTICE AND WHAT WOULD IT MEAN FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?
WALTER ISAACSON SPOKE WITH --, CHIEF EXECUTIVE --.
>> A FEW MONTHS AGO WE THOUGHT WE MIGHT HAVE TO GET ABOVE 6% UNEMPLOYMENT BUT NOW, ON AND -- INFLATION SEEMS TO BECOME TAMED.
HOW DO WE PULL THAT OFF?
>> WE ARE IN BETTER SHAPE THAN I THOUGHT WE WOULD BE.
INFLATION IS STILL A BIT HIGHER THAN IT SHOULD BE BUT I HOPE IT IS PAINLESS TO GET THE REST OF THE WAY AND A LOT OF THIS IS A COMBINATION OF THE FED ACTING DECISIVELY AND GETTING A LITTLE BIT LUCKY AND HAVING JUST A CREDIBLE SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE BELIEVE THERE WILL BE 2% INFLATION.
>> WHEN YOU LOOK BAD AT BACK AT IT WAS THIS INFLATION CAUSED BY OVERSPENDING OR WAS IT SUPPLY CHAIN AND OTHER ISSUES THAT WERE TRANSITORY?
>> IT IS BOTH.
SOME OF THE SPENDING ITSELF WAS TRANSITORY.
LARGE CHECKS WENT OUT TO PEOPLE IN 2020 AND 2021 AND NO ONE HAS GOTTEN CHECKS SINCE THEN AND ALSO THE BIG SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS FADED AND SOLVED THEMSELVES AS WELL AND THE LABOR MARKET IS LOOSER.
THERE IS A HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT RATE TODAY THAN WAS THE CASE TWO YEARS AGO.
>> BUT IN GENERAL WE HAVE INFLATION PRETTY WELL TAMED OR DOWN.
UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN AND THE STOCK MARKET IS WAY UP.
IT SEEMS GOOD BUT PEOPLE DON'T FEEL GOOD.
WHY IS THAT?
>> THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD.
THERE IS NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE OUR INFLATION RATE AND INTEREST RATE AND UNEMPLOYMENT RATE THAN WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.
SOME OF THIS IS WE WENT THROUGH A TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE WITH INFLATION.
WHOEVER'S FAULT IT WAS, IT WAS BAD FOR PEOPLE.
IT WAS HARD FOR PEOPLE.
WE ARE ONLY DIGGING OUT FROM IT NOW AND WHEN PEOPLE SAY THE ECONOMY THEY MEAN SOMETHING MUCH BROADER.
THEY WERE THINGS THAT THEY ARE UPSET ABOUT THAT ARE NOT QUITE THE SAME.
>> BUT YOU LOOK AT ONE OF THE FACTORS, WHICH IS HOUSING COST AND THE NEWS THIS WEEK IS EXISTING HOME SALES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE GONE DOWN MORE THAN ANY TIME IN THE PAST 40 YEARS.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE HAD A DECLINE IN HOME SALES AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A PART OF THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.
>> IT IS NO ACCIDENT THAT HOUSING IS A BIG ISSUE .
HOUSE PRICES ARE UP QUITE A LOT AND AS YOU JUST SAID, THE SALES IS DOWN.
WE ARE NOT MAKING AS MANY HOUSES AS WE WOULD I DAILY BE MAKING.
THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE TODAY THAN IT HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME.
>> YOU TEACH ECONOMICS 10 AT HARVARD AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
WHY ARE HOUSE PRICES AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND?
>> SUPPLY AND DEMAND IS A BIG PART OF IT.
IN SOME OF THE PLACES THAT PEOPLE MOST WANT TO LIVE, WHICH IS A LOT OF THE COASTAL CITIES, IT IS HARD TO BUILD.
YOU CAN'T BUILD AS HIGH AND MAYBE YOU NEED EXTRA PARKING SPACES OR EXTRA PERMITS.
PLACES LIKE --INCLUDING MINNEAPOLIS THAT HAVE MADE IT EASIER TO BUILD --THEY HAVE NOT SEEING THE HUGE INCREASE IN RENTS.
SUPPLY IS A BIG PART OF THE ANSWER AND A LOT OF THAT >> WHEN YOU SAY SUPPLY REFLECTING LOCAL CHOICES, IS AT THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION OR THAT WE HAVE TOO MUCH NOT IN MY BACKYARD TYPE REGULATION AND TOO MANY BUILDING CODE REGULATIONS AND IT GETS TOO COMPLICATED TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING?
>> A LITTLE BIT ON THE COST SIDE.
SOME, WE MAKE IT WITH MANY FEWER PEOPLE WHERE THERE ARE ENORMOUS PRODUCTIVITY INCREASES.
TO MAKE A HOUSE WILL BE ABOUT THE SAME AND TOOLS WILL -- SO ON THE COST SIDE THERE IS EFFICIENCIES THAT WE HAVE NOT HAD AND MAYBE THINGS LIKE MORE PREFABRICATED HOMES OR -- FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING COULD PLAY A ROLE BUT THE BIG THING IS THE NOT IN MY BACKYARD.
THE GOVERNMENT CREATING CONSTRAINTS.
>> WHAT CONSTRAINTS WOULD YOU TAKE OFF IF YOU WERE THE HOUSINGS ARE.
>> IN CAMBRIDGE CITY COUNCIL IS DOING TERRIFIC REFORM .
THEY ARE GOING TO HOPEFULLY MAKE IT SO YOU CAN BUILD UP TO SIX STORIES ANYWHERE IN THE CITY AND YOU CAN BUILD MULTIFAMILY HOUSING.
IF YOU BELIEVE BUILD 10 OR MORE UNITS 20% OF IT WILL NEED TO BE AFFORDABLE AND THEY WILL GET RID OF ROLES LIKE SETBACKS AND THE LIKE AND I HOPE WE DO THAT IN CAMBRIDGE AND GET MORE HOUSES THAT ARE AFFORDABLE AND MORE PEOPLE CAN COME LIVE HERE.
>> KAMALA HARRIS HAS A VERY DETAILED PLAN FOR HOUSING IN AMERICA AND EVEN I GOT CONFUSED.
$25,000 CREDIT HERE FOR FIRST- TIME HOMEBUYERS AND YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS A FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYER THEN IT GOES UP IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
DO YOU THINK THAT PLAN IS TOO COMPLEX?
>> I THINK THE CORE MOTIVATION IS WE NEED 3 MILLION HOUSES AND I AGREE WITH THAT.
SHE HAS A $40 BILLION FUND TO GIVE INCENTIVES TO CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO DO WHAT HOPEFULLY CAMBRIDGE IS DOING RIGHT NOW.
ALL OF THE DIFFERENT TAX CREDITS I AGREE WITH.
I THINK THEY ARE QUITE COMPLICATED AND SOME CAN BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE IF THEY RAISE DEMAND TOO MUCH.
THEY COULD INCREASE PRICES AND NOT LOWER THEM.
>> GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF HER SUGGESTIONS THAT COULD BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE?
>> I THINK THAT FIRST TIME BUYER CREDIT WOULD BE GREAT.
YOU ARE HANDING MONEY TO HOMEOWNERS AND NOT HOMEBUYERS AND EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY CAN USE MONEY AND I AM NOT AGAINST THAT THAT WE HAVE A LARGE BUDGET DEFICIT AND SCARCE RESOURCES.
I THINK THEY ARE POORLY SPENT .
IT IS JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN AFFORD GIVEN THE PRIORITIES.
>> I WAS LOOKING AT THE TRUMP POLICY ON HOUSING AND IT WAS NOT VERY SPECIFIC LIKE KAMALA HARRIS BUT PART OF IT WAS JUST GET IMMIGRANTS OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
SEND THEM OUT AND THAT WILL OPEN UP HOUSING.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
OR ARE THERE PROPOSALS FROM THE TRUMP SIDE THAT ARE REASONABLE?
>> I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING FROM TRUMP ON HOUSING OTHER THAN THE ASSERTION OF IMMIGRANTS.
WHEN YOU HAVE IMMIGRANTS IT DOES DRIVE UP HOUSE PRICES BUT IMMIGRANTS ALSO PLAY A ROLE IN THE BUILDING INDUSTRY AND CONSTRUCTING HOUSES.
OVERALL, EVEN IF IT WAS THE CASE THAT EXPELLING IMMIGRANTS WOULD LOWER THE HOUSE PRICES, IT WOULD ONLY LOWER THEM BY A WOULD BE AT AN UNACCEPTABLE COST.
>> IMMIGRATION AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IMMIGRANTS AND ASYLUM SEEKERS AND UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS IS A HUGE ISSUE.
PRETTY MUCH DRIVING A LOT OF THIS.
YOU WROTE THAT IMMIGRATION IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE HAD A STRONG ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE.
EXPLAINED THAT.
>> WE HAVE HAD 3% GROWTH AND WE HAVE HAD TONS AND TONS OF JOBS EVERY MONTH.
THAT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT THIS BIG INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS.
THE REASON IS THAT THE AMERICAN POPULATION WOULD BE SHRINKING WERE IT NOT FOR IMMIGRATION BECAUSE OF THE FERTILITY RATE BEING BELOW THE REPLACEMENT RATE AND BECAUSE THE POPULATION IS AGING AND MORE PEOPLE ARE RETIRING.
WE ARE AN ECONOMY THAT BENEFITS FROM IMMIGRANTS AND WE ALL RELY ON THEM THAT I DO NOT THINK IT IS AN IDEAL SYSTEM THAT YOU ARE RELYING ON SOMETHING AND NEED SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A FORMAL LEGAL PROCESS TO DO .
THERE IS A SET OF LAWS THAT IF THEY WERE FULLY ENFORCED THEY WOULD BE INHUMANE AND NOT ECONOMICAL BUT, NOT ENFORCING THE LAW IS NOT A GOOD ANSWER EITHER.
>> YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT HOW IMMIGRATION IS HELPING TO PROPEL THE ECONOMY AND OF COURSE, DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE TAKING YOUR JOBS.
IS IT TRUE THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE TAKING PEOPLES JOBS?
>> NO.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMPLOYMENT RATE FOR PEOPLE BETWEEN THE AGES OF 25 AND 54, AND THE REASON ECONOMISTS LIKE TO LOOK AT THEM, YOU MIGHT BE IN SCHOOL BELOW THAT SO WE LOOK AT 25-54 MEASURE THESE THINGS.
THEY EMPLOYMENT RATE IS A DECENT AMOUNT HIGHER THAN IT WAS BEFORE COVID .
IT IS THE HIGHEST IT HAS BEEN IN 25 YEARS SO IMMIGRANTS, IF ANYTHING MIGHT'VE BEEN CREATING JOBS BY INCREASING DEMAND AND WORKING WELL TOGETHER AND THE LIKE.
WE HAVE A VERY HIGH EMPLOYMENT RATE RIGHT NOW AND WE MIGHT BE WORSE WITHOUT IMMIGRANTS.
>> THE OTHER BIG ECONOMIC ISSUE IS THE GREAT DIVIDE BETWEEN TRUMP WHO SEEMS TO LIKE TERRORISTS ALMOST FOR THEIR OWN SAKE.
NOT JUST AS A WEAPON TO TRY TO PROTECT SMALL SEGMENTS OF THE ECONOMY BUT THINKING TARIFFS ARE GENERALLY GOOD.
I THINK HE IS RIGHT TO SAY THAT HARRIS IS PART OF THE MAINLINE CONSENSUS THAT FREE TRADE IS GOOD.
DO YOU THINK WE HAVE TO RETHINK OUR RESISTANCE THAT THE A RESISTANCE TO TERRORISTS?
>> I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO THINK RETHINK IT MUCH AT ALL.
THERE ARE ASPECTS OF THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM THAT YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH IN A TARGETED AND FOCUSED WAY.
TARIFFS MIGHT BE PART OF THE ANSWER BUT MORE BROADLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUYING STUFF FROM AUSTRALIA, GERMANY, THE MAJORITY OF WHAT WE BUY FROM CHINA, THE BENEFITS OF FREE TRADE ARE THAT YOU GET BETTER VARIETY AND LOWER PRICES FOR CONSUMERS AND YOU END UP WITH MORE EXPORTS AND MORE HIGHER PAID JOBS IN THE EXPORT SECTOR AND I AM NOT SURE HOW MUCH WE NEED IN TERMS OF MANUFACTURING BEYOND A DEFENSE BASE BUT TERRORISTS ACTUALLY HAVE NOT HELP MANUFACTURING JOBS BECAUSE IF YOU PUT A TARIFF ON STEEL YOU MIGHT HELP SOME STEELWORKERS BUT THEN YOU HURT AUTOWORKERS BECAUSE IT MAKES AMERICAN CARS MORE EXPENSIVE.
WE CANNOT SELL AS MANY OF THEM AROUND THE WORLD SO TERRORISTS ARE JUST A TERRIBLE WAY TO PROTECT MANUFACTURING JOBS AND A LOT OF THEM HAVE INTERMEDIATE INPUTS THEMSELF .
>> A LITTLE BIT OF PUSHBACK .
EVEN ECONOMISTS LIKE DAVID -- TALK ABOUT THE CHINA SHOCK THAT WE LOST HALF 1 MILLION MANUFACTURING JOBS WHEN WE BROUGHT CHINA INTO THE WT L. MAYBE IN THEORY TARIFFS ARE BAD AND FREE TRADE MAKES SENSE THAT, TO A GUY IN A FACTORY THAT IS NOW GONE, ISN'T THAT A BLOW TO OUR ECONOMY?
>> THERE IS A STUDY ABOUT THE CHINA SHOP.
THERE IS A STUDY THAT USES THE SAME TECHNIQUE BY A GREAT TRADE ECONOMISTS AND HE FOUND A SIMILAR NUMBER OF JOBS WERE CREATED IN EXPORTING SO WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT CHINA, AND MOSTLY CHINESE GROWTH THAT WAS MATTERED HERE, THEY CREATED JOBS IN SOME AREAS AND LOST THEM IN OTHERS AND WHAT DOES THAT ON A BIGGER SCALE IS TECHNOLOGY.
ALL OF THE TIME TECHNOLOGY IS DESTROYING SOME JOBS AND IF WE KEPT THE WORLD FROZEN THE WAY IT WAS 15 YEARS AGO OR 100 YEARS AGO, WE WOULD BE MUCH POORER.
WE NEED TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP PEOPLE BUT, IF THE ANSWER IS TARIFFS, YOU WILL END UP HELPING SOME JOBS AND HURTING OTHER JOBS AND THAT WILL BE A NEGATIVE.
>> ONE OF THE OTHER PROPOSALS THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HAS MADE IS A WEALTH TAX AND IT HAS NOT BEEN TOTALLY CLEAR HOW THAT WOULD BE DONE .
IF YOU TAX UNREALIZED CAPITAL GAINS.
HOW WOULD YOU STRUCTURE A WEALTH TAX?
OR WOULD YOU JUST SAY IT IS A BAD IDEA?
>> I THINK THERE IS ROOM TO RAISE HIGH TAXES ON HIGH INCOME HOUSEHOLDS BUT THERE IS A LIMITED AMOUNT OF ROOM.
THERE ARE NOT OF ENOUGH TAXES THAT WE COULD RAISE TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HARRIS WOULD LIKE TO DO AND EVERY DEMOCRATIC PARTY WOULD LIKE TO DO.
BUT THERE IS SOME MONEY THERE.
THE EASIEST THINGS ARE RAISING THE TAX RATE ON CAPITAL GAINS AND PLUGGING UP SOME OF THE LOOPHOLES LIKE THE WAY THAT PEOPLE PAY THEMSELVES THROUGH PASS-THROUGH ENTITIES TO GET A LOWER TAX RATE.
I THINK THERE IS SOME MERIT AND IT IS WORTH CONSIDERING BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PLACES YOU CAN GO BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT.
>> ONE OF DONALD TRUMP'S IDEAS FOR DEALING WITH THE DEFICIT IS REALLY A SLASHING OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND GETTING RID OF THE --DEPARTMENT.
HE HAS TALKED TO ELON MUSK WHO IS USED TO FIRING 85% OF THE WORKFORCE AT HIS COMPANIES WHEN THINGS HAVE GOTTEN TO FLABBY.
DO YOU THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WHAT THE PRESIDENT IN OUR CHENA -- ARGENTINA IS DOING?
>> I DON'T THINK HIS APPROACH TO THAT WILL WORK AND IF IT DID WORK I THINK THE CONSEQUENCES WOULD BE TERRIBLE.
MOST OF OUR GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS ON THINGS LIKE HEALTHCARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY AND HE HAS BASICALLY TAKEN ALL OF THAT OFF THE TABLE SO HE IS STARTING NEED TO GO.
THERE IS FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE IN GOVERNMENT AND IT IS HARD TO TACKLE THAT WITHOUT GETTING TO WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CARE ABOUT.
EDUCATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, MEDICAL RESEARCH.
THESE THINGS HAVE INCREDIBLY HIGH RETURNS AND IT WOULD BE A TRAGEDY TO SEE THEM --.
>> WHEN IT COMES TO FOREIGN POLICY THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT ACTED AS GUARDRAILS.
CHIEF OF STAFF JOHN KELLY AND MILLIE.
PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT IF THEY WERE TO BE GONE, THAT THE PEOPLE THAT PROVIDED SORT OF THE WHEELS OF STABILITY WOULD NOT BE THERE?
>> I AM VERY WORRIED.
FRIENDS OF MINE THAT ARE WILLING TO SERVE HIS ADMINISTRATION AND EVEN WITH HIS FIRST TERM, THE DIRECTION OF ECONOMIC APPOINTMENTS WENT TOWARDS ONES THAT WERE LESS CONSTRAINED ON THE RAW INSTINCTS OF TRUMP AND I AM AFRAID WE COULD SEE THE SAME THING ON THE ECONOMIC SIDE THIS TIME AROUND.
>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, JASON FURMAN .
>>> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
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