October 30, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> DONALD TRUMP HAS SPENT A DECADE TRYING TO KEEP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DIVIDED AND AFRAID OF EACH OTHER.

>> IT'S THE FINAL SPRINT, AS BOTH CANDIDATES MAKE THEIR CLOSING PITCH.

I ASKED REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN AND FORMER NAVY SEAL DAM CRENSHAW WHY HE THINKS TRUMP CAN REUNITE THE COUNTRY.

>> NEXT TUESDAY, YOU HAVE TO STAND UP AND TELL KAMALA THAT YOU HAVE HAD ENOUGH.

>> AS POWER IN WASHINGTON HANGS IN THE BALANCE, A DEMOCRAT ON HIS CONGRESSIONAL RACE, WHICH COULD DETERMINE WHO CONTROLS THE HOUSE >>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> EVER SINCE TRUMP GO ON THE GOLDEN ESCALATOR, DEMOCRATS HAVE BECOME A PARTY OF RESISTANCE.

>> LEFT DRIFT, WHAT HAPPENED TO LIBERAL POLITICS?

TIMOTHY SICK ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK EXPLORING THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WIER, THE SYLVIA CAPITAL A AND SIMON B. ENDOWMENT AGAINST AN SOME, THE FOUNDATION OF WILL AND MICKEY STRAUSS, MARK J. BLESHNER, THE OLDEST FOUNDATION, PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANCE COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITY'S.

BARBARA HOPE SUMMER BREAK, JEFFREY KATZ, BETH ROGERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

IN THIS MOST NAILBITING AMERICAN ELECTION, CANDIDATES MAKING THEIR SO-CALLED CLOSING ARGUMENTS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

SPEAKING FROM THE WASHINGTON, D.C. LAST NIGHT WHERE DONALD TRUMP RALLIED SUPPORTERS JANUARY 6th, KAMALA HARRIS REMINDED VOTERS OF THE CAPITOL INSURRECTION AND TRUMPET'S OUTSPOKEN THREATS TO DEMOCRACY.

MEANTIME, THE GOP IS FEELING BULLISH, LOOKING AT THE NUMBER OF BALLOTS RETURNED BY REGISTERED REPUBLICANS, WITH FAR MORE VOTING EARLY THEN FOUR YEARS AGO.

YET, DONALD TRUMP CONTINUES TO STOKE FEARS OF WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD, MAKING UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS TO ASSERT THAT IF HE DOESN'T WIN, THE WHOLE THING IS RIGGED.

CONGRESSMAN DAN CRENSHAW WAS AMONG A HANDFUL OF TEXAS REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED TO CERTIFY THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

TODAY, THOUGH, HE IS SITTING FIRMLY IN TRUMP'S CAMP AND PROMOTING HIS VISION FOR AMERICA.

HE IS JOINING US FROM TEXAS RIGHT NOW.

CONGRESSMAN CRENSHAW, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE VICE PRESIDENT, LAST NIGHT, BASICALLY OF HIS OR RECENTLY --HELD A RALLY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, IN TEXAS, IN HOUSTON OFFICE WAS WHEN I WAS NOT ABOUT GO STATE --SHE CALLED TEXAS GROUND ZERO IN THE FIGHT FOR REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.

GIVEN THE FACT THAT THIS A BIG GENDER GAP --AS YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE --IN THIS ELECTION, HOW IS THAT MESSAGE MOVING THE NEEDLE, AND FOR REPUBLICANS?

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE STATE.

IT IS NOT GOING TO MOVE THE NEEDLE IN TEXAS.

WE HAVE HAD MULTIPLE STATEWIDE ELECTIONS SINCE WE PUT INTO PLACE ONE OF THE STRONGEST PRO- LIFE POLICIES IN THE COUNTRY, AND REPUBLICANS, STATEWIDE, CONTINUED TO WIN BY 10 POINTS.

YOU KNOW, AND I THINK MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP TO THE FACT THAT REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN KILL A BABY.

LET'S BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

LET'S NOT USING EUPHEMISMS FOR THE ACTIONS BEING TAKEN.

LOOK, REPUBLICANS LIKE MYSELF WILL CONTINUE TO BE PRO-LIFE AND CONTINUE TO FIGHT FOR THAT, BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST COMMON SENSE AND TO DO, THE HUMAN THING TO DO, THE RIGHT AND MORAL THING TO DO OR DOES IT AFFECT TEXAS?

NOT SO SURE DOES IT AFFECT OTHER STATES?

IT DEPENDS.

IT IS STATE-BY-STATE.

OFTENTIMES, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT IS ON THE BALLOT.

DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN CLEVER IN GETTING THIS QUESTION PUT ON THE BALLOT, THEN THEY COMPLAINED THAT ROE V. WADE IS OVERTURNED, BUT ALL ROE V. WADE DID BEING OVERTURNED --A TERRIBLE REASON TO BEGIN WITH --ANY LAWYER WOULD ADMIT THAT --IT ONLY DEMOCRATIZED THE ISSUE, WHICH IS WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO IN AMERICA, POLICY DEBATES ABOUT ISSUES AND THEM AT THE STATE LEVEL, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

>> AS YOU KNOW, WHAT TRUMP DID, PUT THE FEAR OF --I WILL USE A PHRASE, BUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY -- AND HAS CAUSED A LOT OF ANXIETY, HARDSHIP, EXPENSE, AND EVEN HEALTH DANGERS TO THE POINT THAT CONSERVATIVE LIZ CHENEY HAS SAID SHE BELIEVES THAT WOMEN WILL BE THE DECIDING FACTOR FOR KAMALA BECAUSE OF THIS ISSUE.

I GUESS I WANT TO ASK YOU WHETHER, GENERALLY --YOU ARE A POLITICIAN --GENERALLY --THE REPUBLICANS HAVE AN ANSWER TO WHAT HAS BEEN A LOSING VOTE FOR YOUR PARTY THE LAST SEVERAL CYCLES.

>> YEAH.

LOOK I UNDERSTAND THE PITFALLS POLITICALLY, BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DOING WHAT IS RIGHT, STANDING FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.

IT IS NOT A CREATURE THAT THIS IS SUCH A LOSING ISSUE.

TRUMP'S POSITION IS WIDELY HELD BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

20 YEARS, 60 OR 70% OF PEOPLE THINK ABORTION PAST 12 WEEKS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED, SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.

TRUMP'S POSITION HAS BEEN TO NOT EVEN DO THAT BUT SAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO FEDERAL BAN AND IT SHOULD BE LEFT TO THE STATE.

TRUMP IS A FAR MORE MODERATE CANDIDATE.

PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY BEING OBJECTIVE ABOUT WHAT MODERATION IS --THE EXTREME POSITION IN THIS CASE IS TO BE IN FAVOR OF WHAT JUST ABOUT EVERY DEMOCRAT IS IN FAVOR OF, WHICH IS ABORTION ON DEMAND AT ANY TIME IN A PREGNANCY.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN EUROPE --JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY IN EUROPE WOULD SCOFF AT THAT IDEA --SINCE EUROPEAN LAWS ARE USUALLY PREVENT ABORTION PAST 12 WEEKS.

ONLY HERE DO WE HAVE THESE EXTREME ABORTION MEASURES THAT DEMOCRATS SUPPORT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS.

>> LET ME ASK YOU --BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT PRINCE WILLIAM PRAGMATISM.

AS YOU KNOW, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE PROBE THEIR RIGHTS UNDER ROE VERSUS WADE.

AS I SAID, DEVOTED TO CERTIFY -- >> DON'T MOVE ON FROM THAT.

DON'T BE CLEVER ABOUT IT.

>> I'M NOT BEEN CLEVER, AND I'M NOT DEBATING.

I MERELY ACTUALLY -- >> WITH THEIR ANSWERS -- WHEN PEOPLE ARE ASKED, DO YOU SUPPORT ROE V. WADE, THEY ARE NOT SURE WHAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING.

>> OKAY.

>> YOU KNOW THIS, PEW RESEARCH, 67% OF PEOPLE DO NOT AGREE WITH ABORTION PAST 12 WEEKS.

WE ARE NOT THE CRAZY ONES HERE.

>> NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT CRAZY.

I SAY, THEY SUPPORT ROE VERSUS WADE.

LET US MOVE ON.

BECAUSE THAT IS A FACT.

THE PRINCIPLES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT --FOR INSTANCE --LET'S TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY, WITH PEOPLE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD WATCHING -- AS YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN MADE A BIG ISSUE BY THE DEMOCRATS, BY THIS ADMINISTRATION --SO, YOU JOINED A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS IN TEXAS TO ACTUALLY CERTIFY THE 2020 ELECTION.

YOU DIDN'T VOTE TO IMPEACH TRUMP, BUT I WONDER WHETHER YOU WOULD STILL CERTIFY AN ELECTION IF TRUMP DOESN'T WIN, GIVEN THAT, ALREADY, THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF GROUNDWORK BEING LAID -- AT LEAST IT APPEARS SO, GIVEN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S OWN WORDS AT HIS RALLIES AND ELSEWHERE -- THEY ARE ALREADY LAYING THE GROUNDWORK TO CRY FOUL IF THEY DON'T HEAD.

>> YEAH.

WE FIRST HAVE TO START WITH A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT, WHICH IS THAT THE ENTIRE CERTIFICATION PROCESS --I HAVE TO PUT THAT IN QUOTATION MARKS --CERTIFICATION PROCESS IS COMPLETELY ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL IT WAS AN CONTRIBUTION OF THE LAST THREE TIMES WHEN DEMOCRATS DID IT, IT WAS AN ADDITIONAL LAST TIME, WHEN REPUBLICANS DID IT.

IT IS A BIT UNCONSTITUTIONAL THIS ENTIRE TIME.

THE WORD CERTIFICATION IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

THERE WAS NO POWER FOR THE VICE PRESIDENT OR CONGRESS TO CERTIFY OR DECERTIFY AN ELECTION.

WE HAVE TO START THERE.

I THINK ANYBODY SHOULD KNOW THAT.

DEMOCRATS STARTED THIS AND IT HAS BECOME THIS ACCEPTED PROCESS EVER SINCE, WHICH IS REALLY, REALLY BAD FOR OUR REPUBLIC.

SO, LET ME START WITH THAT.

TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU DON'T CERTIFY --YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ASKING ME HYPOTHETICALS IN A SITUATION THAT I CAN'T PROTECT.

BUT, I CAN SAY THAT THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS LONG TO BEGIN WITH, AND WE SHOULD HAVE DONE SINCE THEN IS CLARIFY THE LAW, BECAUSE THAT PARTICULAR LOT, THE PROCESS THAT WE ARE FOLLOWING, IS ACED ON THE BEACON SECTION ERA, WHEN THERE WAS ACTUAL SHUTTLE GOVERNMENTS AND SHADOWY LETTERS BEING SENT TO WASHINGTON, AND THERE HAD TO BE A METHODOLOGY FOR SORTING THAT OUT.

THAT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CASE RIGHT NOW.

SO, I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK IN TIME A LITTLE BIT AND TELL SOME TRUTHS ABOUT WHAT THE ACTUAL PROCESS IS, AND WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS.

>> AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WORRIES A LOT OF PEOPLE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO ASKING YOU ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE DONE THAT, YOU HAVE A REPUTATION FOR SOMETIMES BUCKING PARTY ORTHODOXY.

"THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE" HIGHLIGHTED THAT WHEN THEY GIVE YOU THEIR ENDORSEMENT.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU WORK ACROSS THE AISLE WITH A VERY PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT REPRESENTATIVE, ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ --ON LEGISLATION TO INCREASE THE SHIRT FOR FUNDING OF VETERANS WITH PTSD.

YOU WERE ALSO VOCAL COURTING REPUBLICANS THAT TORPEDOED THE SENATE'S BIPARTISAN IMMIGRATION BILL BEFORE THE BILL WAS RELEASED.

YOU REMEMBER THAT AS THE HEIGHT OF STUPIDITY.

THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID.

SO, HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO ACTUALLY DO PRINCIPLED LEGISLATION WHEN, ON SOME OCCASIONS LIKE THIS ONE, YOUR PARTY WOULDN'T EVEN READ IT OR BRING IT TO THE FLOOR BEFORE KILLING IT?

>> THOSE ARE TWO SUCH DIFFERENT SCENARIOS.

THEY CAN IMPACT BOTH.

YEAH.

ELECTION NUMBERS LIKE AOC COSPONSORED MY LEGISLATION.

SAYING WE WORK TOGETHER IS A LITTLE BIT OF A STRETCH.

BUT YES, MORE TIMES THAN PEOPLE REALIZE -- WHEN WE ARE PASSING BIPARTISAN BILLS FROM CONGRESS, MOST LAWS THAT GET ACTUALLY SIGNED INTO LAW ARE BIPARTISAN, KIND OF BY NECESSITY.

SO, IT HAPPENED A LOT MORE THAN PEOPLE REALIZE.

WE SHOULD APPLAUD THAT.

WE SHOULD MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER.

AS FAR AS BUCKING YOUR OWN PARTY, I DON'T EVEN THINK THIS IS THE CASE.

I HAVE BOOKED MY OWN PARTY OF IS MY OWN NARRATIVES --PRETTY HANDEDLY.

IN THIS STATE, I SIMPLY STATE WHAT I THINK IS THE OBVIOUS.

HOW DO YOU THINK YOU CAN HAVE AN OPINION ON SOMETHING BEFORE YOU HAVE READ IT?

THAT IS THE HIGHEST STUPIDITY.

I STILL FEEL THAT WAY.

DOES IT GET YOU IN TROUBLE?

A LITTLE BIT.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

THE TRUTH CAN, OFTEN DOES, AND PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR TRUTH AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY THE STATE WE ARE IN, IN AMERICA, AND FRANKLY ACROSS THE WORLD.

WHERE EMOTION IS THE PRIMARY LANGUAGE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO SPEAK, AS OPPOSED TO OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS.

I THINK THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM.

>> LOOK, I WONDER --YOU ARE A VET, YOU HAVE BEEN A NAVY S.E.A.L., YOU HAVE SERVED YOUR COUNTRY.

I THINK DONALD TRUMP'S USE OF THE MILITARY, THE LANGUAGE HE USES FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN INJURED OR BEEN KILLED IN COMBAT, LOSES --LOSERS, ET CETERA --AND AS IMPORTANTLY -- WHEN HE THREATENS TO USE THE MILITARY AND THE NATIONAL GUARD AGAINST WHAT HE CALLED THE ENEMY WITHIN, AREN'T YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT?

THIS IS ACTUALLY VERY BIG RUSSIAN IN A DEMOCRACY WHETHER YOU ACTUALLY SET YOUR MILITARY AGAINST YOUR OWN PEOPLE, WHICH, AS FAR AS I KNOW, I THINK IS ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> YEAH.

IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT QUOTE YOU ARE REFERRING TO.

I KNOW TRUMP SPEAKS OFF THE CUFF, AND FIRES BEFORE HE THINKS ABOUT IT.

THAT HAPPENS A LOT.

DOESN'T MEAN HE'S GOING TO DO IT?

OF COURSE NOT.

THOSE FEARS A LITTLE BIT MORE IF YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM GOVERN, BUT YOU SAW HIM GOVERN FOR FOUR YEARS.

IT TURNED OUT THAT, IN THOSE FOUR YEARS, WE HAD PRETTY NORMAL LIVES.

WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD ECONOMY, ACTUALLY PRETTY GOOD FOREIGN- POLICY TOO, DESPITE MANY OF THE FEARS ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO DO IN THE FOREIGN POLICY REALM.

HE ACTUALLY GOVERNED WELL.

TRUMP TEND TO UNDERSTAND THE WEIGHT OF THE OFFICE THAT HE HOLDS, AND HE DOES LISTEN TO ADVISORS.

HE HAS SMART PEOPLE.

SO, FOUR YEARS TO OBSERVE, AND ALSO OBSERVE THE OUTCOMES ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE FOUR YEARS, MAYBE I WOULD BE MORE WORRIED, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THOSE FOUR YEARS COMPARED TO KAMALA HARRIS' FOUR YEARS, THEY ARE NIGHT AND DAY.

THE OUTCOMES ASSOCIATED WITH EACH OF THE FOUR YEARS -- ESPECIALLY ON THE ECONOMY -- ARE NIGHT AND DAY, ESPECIALLY ON THE FOREIGN-POLICY.

THEY ARE NIGHT AND DAY.

TRUMP WON IS BETTER.

THAT IS WHAT THIS ELECTION IS FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT.

AGAIN, I AM ALL FOR OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS.

WE CAN THROW ARROWS AT EACH OTHER TALKING ABOUT WHO IS THE WORST PERSON, WHO SAID WHAT YESTERDAY ABOUT SO-AND-SO, AND HOW MEAN THEY ARE BECAUSE OF IT.

LOOK, IN THE END, I WANT PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT ONE THING, WHICH IS WHAT MATTERS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AT THE KITCHEN TABLE.

THOSE THINGS ARE THE BASICS.

RIGHT?

IT IS HOW EXPENSIVE IS YOUR FOOD AT THE GROCERY STORE.HOW FAST ARE YOUR WAGES INCREASING UNDER TRUMP.

THE LOWEST QUINTILE OF LEARNERS' WAGES INCREASED 13%.

UNDER BIDEN, 0 BECAUSE INFLATION CANCELED IT ALL OUT.

MORTGAGE RATES TUMBLED UP AS DOUBLED UNDER BIDEN.

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

ALL OF THIS IS, INDEED, CONNECTED TO POLICIES THAT THEY PUT IN PLACE.

>> CAN I JUST DO A LITTLE BIT YOU PROBABLY SAW THE ECONOMIST, A VERY CENTRIST ECONOMIC NEWSPAPER HERE HAD A FRONT PAGE, COVER, SAY, THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD, THE STRONGEST IN THE WORLD.

WE KNOW THAT THE ECONOMY ADDED NEARLY 60 MILLION JOBS, 6.3 MILLION HIGHER THAN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC UNDER BIDEN.

THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE DROPPED, STAYED LOWER, CRUDE OIL HAS INCREASED PRODUCTION, THE U.S. ECONOMY CONTINUED TO EXPAND UNDER BIDEN, GROWING AT 2.8% THE 2nd QUARTER.

ACCORDING TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, CLEARLY, PEOPLE ARE HURTING FROM THE ECONOMY, BUT IN GENERAL, THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY IS THE GENERAL ENVY OF THE WORLD.

I WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.

I ACTUALLY WANT TO ASK ABOUT -- YOU SAY THAT HE SAYS THINGS HE DOESN'T MEAN OTHERS SAY, HE SAYS IT, LISTEN TO HIM, BECAUSE HE DOES MEAN IT.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, I WANTED TO ASK YOUR FEELING ABOUT, OKAY, LAST TIME, YOU SAY WE GOT THROUGH IT.

YOU'RE USING WE AS THE UNITED STATES GOT THROUGH IT, AND NOBODY WENT OFF A CLIFF.

LAST TIME, PEOPLE WILL SAY, THERE WERE SOME EXTREMELY EXPERIENCED PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION AROUND HIM ACTING AS GUARDRAIL.

THIS TIME, THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY WON'T BE THERE.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE THAT THERE WILL BE EXPERTS AND GUARDRAILS TO, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY STOP TRUMP FROM HIS WORST INSTINCTS?

>> LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE AMERICAN FIRST POLICY INSTITUTE.

I THINK YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF THE SAME NAMES FROM THE LAST ADMINISTRATION, PROBABLY THIS NEXT ADMINISTRATION.

I DON'T HAVE THE INSIDER SCOOP ON WHO EXACTLY WILL BE DOING WHAT, BUT I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA.

THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR FOREIGN-POLICY.

LET'S SAY, YOU WILL HAVE A PRETTY NORMAL SO THE PEOPLE THERE.

LOOK, ON THE ECONOMY, I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING.

YOU HAVE TO CONNECT POLICIES TO GOOD ECONOMIC OUTCOMES.

YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, LOOK, SOMEBODY IS PRESIDENT NOW, ECONOMY IS DOING BETTER --AND I APPRECIATE YOU AT LEAST SET IT RIGHT, BITING DIDN'T CREATE THOSE JOBS, THE ECONOMY DID.

THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

WE HAVE THAT FOR A COUNTERFACTUAL MULTI-VERSE WHERE WE CAN SAY, OKAY, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OR WORSE HAD HE NOT DONE THIS, THIS, OR THIS DEMOCRATS AT LEAST HAVE TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT WE INCREASE THESE JOBS BECAUSE OF X, Y, AND Z POLICIES BIDEN PUT IN PLACE.

REALITY IS, WHAT PUT IN PLACE, BIDEN AND HARRIS, OR TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF COSTS IN REGULATIONS, INCREASES IN TAXES.

THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING PROGROWTH.

WE ARE GROWING IN MANY WAYS, WE ARE DOING BETTER, BUT THAT IS DESPITE THOSE POLICIES.

I CAN MAKE THE EXACT OPPOSITE ARGUMENT UNDER TRUMP, WHEN YOU HAVE TEXT CUTS AND LESS REGULATIONS, ALL OF THESE ARE PRO-BUSINESS POLICIES.

THE OUTCOMES ARE ANTICIPATED TO BE GOOD, AND EXACTLY THAT, THEY WERE.

BIDEN INHERITED A RECOVERING ECONOMY FROM COVID, IN THE QUARTERS PREVIOUS TO BIDEN TAKING OFFICE, THE GDP WAS THEN 6%, 5%, MOST OF THE GAINS AND IMPLEMENT WERE HAPPENING BECAUSE IT WAS IN RECOVERY MODE.

SO, YOU HAVE TO TAKE ALL THAT INTO CONTEXT IF YOU ARE GOING TO PROPERLY ANALYZE WHO IS DOING A BETTER JOB ON THE ECONOMY, AND MAKING SURE THAT YOU HAVE AN EASIER TIME STARTING YOUR SMALL BUSINESS.

>> FROM WHAT I GATHER, YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A REAGAN REPUBLICAN.

SO, I GUESS, IN TODAY'S LANDSCAPE, THAT IS MORE MODERATE THAN THE MAGA REPUBLICANS, THAT IS FOR SURE.

I WONDER WHETHER YOU ARE COMFORTABLE, THEN, SO MANY -- LIKE SCORES, I GUESS, OF NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNING AND OTHER EXPERT ECONOMISTS WHO HAVE SAID THAT TRUMP'S TARIFFS AND TAXES, AND OTHER POLICIES, WOULD CAUSE A HUGE INFORMATIONAL SPIKE, AND THAT IS A TAX ON AMERICA, AS WE KNOW, ON AMERICANS, BUT ALSO THAT THESE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR HIM, FROM MILLIE, YOU KNOW, McMASTERS TO MASTERS, TO KELLY, TO ALL THESE NAMES, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO SERVE THEIR COUNTRIES, THEY ARE ALL COMING OUT AGAINST HIM.

I'M STILL TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOU THINK THIS IS THE BEST CAUSE FOR THE FUTURE.

LIZ CHENEY, CHENEY, THESE ARE STALWARTS OF THE PARTY VOTING FOR KAMALA HARRIS.

>> LOOK, WHEN I GET MY BALLOT --I WILL VOTE SOMETIME THIS WEEK PROBABLY --EARLY VOTING --HERE IS WHAT MY BALLOT IS GOING TO SAY.

IT IS NOT GOING TO SAY, WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE REAGAN.

THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS GOING TO SAY.

IT IS NOT GOING TO SAY, DO YOU THINK TRUMP IS THE MOST PERFECT LEADER EVER.

THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS GOING TO SAY.

IT IS GOING TO SAY, DO YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR TRUMP, OR DO YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR KAMALA HARRIS.

THAT IS WHAT THE BALLOT IS GOING TO SAY.

THAT IS WHY IT IS SO EASY TO VOTE FOR TRUMP, BECAUSE, LOOK, AND I MENTIONED THIS BEFORE, THIS IS A UNIQUE ELECTION, IN THAT WE HAVE TWO CANDIDATES, WHERE WE HAVE FOUR YEARS FROM EACH, AND THE OUTCOMES ASSOCIATED WITH EACH OF THOSE POLICIES FOR FOUR YEARS --WE CAN COMPARE THEM SIDE-BY-SIDE, BECAUSE THE FOUR YEARS WERE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER.

THAT IS QUITE THE A OPPORTUNITY FOR AMERICANS TO BE OBJECTIVE ABOUT HOW THEY ARE GOING TO VOTE.

ON EVERY MEASURE --YOU CAN PICK WHATEVER TOPIC YOU WANT -- I'M HAPPY TO DISCUSS IT -- TRUMP WINS OUT ON EACH OF THOSE, WHETHER IT IS FOREIGN- POLICY OR DOMESTIC/ECONOMIC POLICY.

IMMIGRATION POLICY, FOR SURE.

THESE ARE THE TOP OF THE LIST FOR AMERICAN VOTERS ON POLICY ISSUES.

>> OKAY.

>> EXTRICATE MYSELF FROM THE PERSONALITY WARS, AND I OBJECTIVELY LOOK AT WHAT THE POLICIES ARE AND HOW THEY ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTING MY CHILDREN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

>> RICHMOND DAN CRENSHAW, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I WILL PUT SOME OF THAT OUR NEXT GUEST, THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS PERSON RUNNING FOR CONGRESS IN NEW YORK, JOHN AVALON.

CRUCIAL TO WHOEVER WINS THE OVAL OFFICE, OF COURSE, IS WHICH PARTY CONTROLS CONGRESS.

RIGHT NOW, REPUBLICANS HOLD A SLIM MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE OF PLAY, AND HOPING TO SWING THE BALANCE OF POWER TO THE DEMOCRATS, AS I MENTIONED, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE JOHN AVALON.

FORMERLY CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, NOW TURNED TO POLITICS, RUNNING FOR NEW YORK'S FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN LONG ISLAND.

AND UP AGAINST INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, NICK LODOLO.

JOHN AVLON IS JOINING ME NOW FROM --WHERE ARE YOU FROM?

YOU ARE JOINTLY FROM NEW YORK, LONG ISLAND.

JOHN, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HEARD MY PREVIOUS GUEST, DAN CRENSHAW, SAID, YOU GOT YOUR BALLOT, IF IT SAYS, TRUMP, KAMALA HARRIS, FOR SURE, YOU PUT THE TWO OF THEM UP AGAINST EACH OTHER ON IMMIGRATION, ECONOMY, FOREIGN POLICY AND THE LIKE, AND NO CONTEXT, TRUMP WINS.

WHAT IS YOUR COUNTERARGUMENT -- ARGUMENT?

>> I THINK THAT WAS PARTISAN OBLIGATIONS FROM THE CONGAS MEN, MUCH OF HIS RECORD I RESPECT.

CHARACTER COUNTS.

THE IDEA THAT WE WERE LIVING IN SOME NIRVANA FOUR YEARS AGO, OUR NATION, AS WITH MUCH OF THE WORLD, ON THE WAVE OF MILLIONS OF COVID DEATHS, A SKYROCKETING OF UNEMPLOYMENT.

ARE YOU BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE FOUR YEARS AGO?

NO QUESTION, BETTER OFF THAN FOUR YEARS AGO.

MORE TO THE POINT, THE IDEA THAT TRUMP WASN'T ABLE TO DO MUCH DAMAGE --PUT ON YOUR HISTORY LESSON LENS --HAD AN ATTACK ON OUR CAPITOL FROM WHAT TRUMP PROPAGATED.

IF A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT AND TRY TO OVERTURN IT THAT LED TO AN ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, I THINK DAN CRENSHAW WOULD BE CONDEMNING THAT PERSON, AND HE WOULD BE RIGHT TO DO THAT.

WE NEED TO STOP THE SITUATIONAL ETHICS AT THE COUNTRY OVER PARTY PRINCIPLES OVER PARTY.

THE FACT IS, AS YOU POINTED OUT, 40/44 CABINET OFFICIALS WHO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP ARE WARNING THAT HE IS A THREAT TO THE REPUBLIC.

TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY.

TAKE THAT REAL SERIOUSLY.

THAT IS THE PRISM WITH WHICH I SELECTION --THE MESSAGE AMERICA SENDS TO THE WORLD -- TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION ON THE BACK OF A LIE THAT LED TO AN ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL.

THEN, EVERYTHING ELSE, QUESTIONS OF FREEDOM TO REBUILDING THE MIDDLE AND REBUILDING THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND THE POLICIES AND ACTION, AND WHY WE NEED TO MAKE THAT CHANGE, BECAUSE ONE OF THE MANY ARGUMENTS THIS ELECTION, IT SEEMS TO ME, IF, GOT FOR ME, FROM MY SPECTER, TRUMP IS REELECTED, DEMOCRATS CONTROLLING THE HOUSE IS A VITAL CHECK AND BALANCE.

>> LET ME ASK ABOUT THAT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU BRING UP THE DEMOCRACY PIECE.

OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS WHAT KAMALA HARRIS IS, YOU KNOW, DOING.

DO VOTERS --LET'S SAY, WHERE YOU ARE, TRYING TO GET --WIN THIS SEAT --DO THEY FEEL THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR THIS ELECTION, OR IS IT ABOUT THE ECONOMY, AND, YOU KNOW, I EXCITED A LOT OF STATISTICS FROM ECONOMISTS AND OTHERS, WHICH BASICALLY SAY THAT BY THE MIKEY ECONOMY HAS BEEN VERY STRONG, EVEN THOUGH PRICES HAVE GONE UP FOR PEOPLE, AND IT IS VERY PAINFUL FOR A CERTAIN SECTOR OF THE POPULATION.

IN ANY EVENT, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT MATTER MOST RIGHT NOW?

>> FIRST OF ALL, DEMOCRACY IS FOUNDATIONAL.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTED BY THE CHAOS.

THEY WANT TO MOVE TOWARDS COMMON GROUND.

BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY KITCHEN TABLE ISSUES THAT HAVE MORE IMMEDIACY, ISSUES ON AFFORDABILITY.

YOU POINTED OUT, THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD.

I WOULD SAY, THE DINER CONVERSATION AROUND THE ECONOMY HAS CHANGED, BUT THERE IS STILL A LOT OF FRUSTRATION AROUND AFFORDABILITY, PARTICULARLY ON LONG ISLAND HERE, WHERE WE TALK ABOUT RESTORING THE STATE AND LOCAL TAX REDUCTION TRUMP BUYBACK --OR TOOK AWAY --IN EXPANDING THE CHILD TAX CREDIT, BUT ALSO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.

THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE, VERY HIGH TURNOUT FOR WOMEN IN PARTICULAR FOR EARLY VOTING PRETTY FRIENDLY POINTED OUT, THIS IS A 75-80% ISSUE.

I BELIEVE THE -- GOVERNMENT --FOR EXAMPLE, MY OPPONENT SUPPORTS A 12-WEEK ABORTION BAN, OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE.

THAT IS CREDIBLY OUT OF STEP WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF VOTERS HERE, EVEN A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS HERE, IN NEW YORK'S FIRST DISTRICT THAT IS A DRIVING ISSUE AS WELL, AND THERE IS FRUSTRATION ABOUT BORDER SECURITY AS WELL.FOR SURE.

AS YOU POINTED OUT, TRUMP PULLED THE PLUG ON A BIPARTISAN BORDER BILL THAT I WOULD VOTE ON FROM DAY ONE.

THAT IS TOP OF PEOPLE'S MIND, BUT DON'T DISMISS DEMOCRACY FOR PEOPLE.

OUR COUNTRY IS SOMETHING PEOPLE OF AND THEY ARE TIRED OF THE CHAOS I WANT TO MOVE TOWARDS COMMON GROUND.

>> JOHN, I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK --YOU ARE A RETAIL POLITICIAN NOW, HAVING, AS I SAID, A CNN COLLEAGUE, HAVING BEEN EDITOR AND CHIEF, AN AUTHOR, YOU KNOW, AN INDEPENDENT, A REGISTERED INDEPENDENT AT THAT TIME.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, ON THESE BIG ISSUES, THE ECONOMY, AND ON IMMIGRATION, THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS ACTUALLY TOLD A SUCCESSFUL STORY AROUND LOOK, TRUMP CLAIMS AT LEAST 21 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE ILLEGALLY CROSSED THE BORDER DURING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

WE CHECKED THE FACTS.

THROUGH SEPTEMBER, THE COUNTRY HAS REPORTED UNDER 11 MILLION NATIONWIDE ENCOUNTERS NATIONWIDE WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, INCLUDING MILLIONS RAPIDLY EXPELLED FROM THE COUNTRY.

THAT IS ONE SET OF FACTS ON MIGRATION AND IMMIGRATION THEN, OF COURSE, VIOLENT CRIME HAS GONE DOWN IN CITIES.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT IS GETTING OUT YOU TELL ME WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

AND AS WE SAID, THE ECONOMY, AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE HURT, BUT IN GENERAL, THE MacROECONOMY IS DOING BETTER THAN IN MOST PARTS OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD.

>> YES.

THAT IS COMPARED TO WHAT PEOPLE CAN'T FEEL.

I THINK A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE LAGGING INDICATORS.

I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION CAN TELL THAT STORY, PARTICULARLY AROUND IMMIGRATION.

WE HAVE SEEN BORDER CROSSINGS BUT THEY WERE TOO HIGH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

WE NEED A BIPARTISAN BORDER SECURITY BILL.

ON THE ECONOMY, I THINK WE ARE MOVING THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT IT WILL NEVER BE FAST ENOUGH.

THAT IS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT HAVING A FAX-BASED DEBATE AROUND CRIME, ON THE TOUGH ON CRIME GUYS LIKE ME, WORKED FOR RUDY GIULIANI ONCE UPON A TIME.

THE FACT IS THAT VIOLENT CRIME ROSE UNDER DONALD TRUMP AND HAS FALLEN UNDER JOE BIDEN.

NARRATIVES ARE STUBBORN, ESPECIALLY IN AN ERA OF HYPER- PARTISAN MEDIA ECOSYSTEMS, WHERE PEOPLE GET THEIR TALKING POINTS.

YOU SEE PEOPLE BECOME CAPTIVE TO THOSE TALKING POINTS, PARTICULARLY IN PARTISAN STRUCTURES.

YOU HEARD DAN CRENSHAW DOING A MOMENT AGO, WHERE HE CAN IT CONFRONT CERTAIN FACTS BECAUSE HE HAS GOT A PARTY TO ANSWER TO, EVEN THOUGH HE CAN BE INDEPENDENT ON SOME ISSUES.

THE OTHER NIGHT, IN MY DEBATE, MY OPPONENT COULDN'T EVEN BRING HIMSELF TO CRITICIZE DONALD TRUMP'S RAISE --PRAISE OF HITLER --NICK LaLOTA --WHICH I THOUGHT WAS THE LOWEST BAR IN AMERICAN POLITICS, BUT IT IS OF FEAR.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE SICK OF THAT.

I'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON THE BUILDING THE MIDDLE OF OUR POLITICS AND ECONOMY.

WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION ON AREAS THAT ARE OF DEEP CONCERN, LIKE BORDER SECURITY, SO, JUST LIKE DEMOCRATS IN PARTICULAR NEED TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME, BECAUSE PEOPLE FEEL UNSAFE, THEY WILL PUT OTHER THINGS --BUT THE FACT IS THAT MORE UNITES US THAN DIVIDES US.

POLL TOOK SO US.

POLITICS DOESN'T REFLECT THAT, BUT THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO SEE.

WHEN REPUBLICANS TAKE POSITIONS OUTSIDE OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICAN COLLECTORS, THEY ARE ON THE WRONG SIDE.

LIKE MIKE JOHNSTON, TAKING A SHOT ACROSS AT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT TODAY.

HE COVERS PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS.

THAT IS GOING TO HURT.

>> I MEANT TO ASK PRESENTED OF CRENSHAW THIS --YOU MENTIONED THE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN RALLY, TRUMP SAID SOMETHING LIKE WE HAVE A SECRET OR SOMETHING, DON'T WE, MIKE.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO?

>> WELL, OF COURSE, I CAN'T GET IN HIS HEAD.

AN ATTEMPT --WHICH WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN --REMEMBER, THIS IS WHY ACCOUNTABILITY IS IMPORTANT.

WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY, TIMES TO OVERTURN ELECTIONS OUT OF PRACTICE.

ALREADY, WE HAVE SEEN DONALD TRUMP DO WHAT HE HAD DONE IN THE PAST, WHICH SOWS SEEDS OF DOUBT IN THE ELECTION PROCESS UNLESS HE WINS.

WE PASSED AN ELECTORAL COUNT REFORM, AND CRENSHAW WAS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BOAT, BUT 139 HOUSE REPUBLICANS VOTED TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION AFTER THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL.

THE EFFECT OF THE ELECTION LIE HAS BEEN USED AS A LITMUS TEST FOR LOYALTY SHOULD BE CHILLING TO ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN A FACT-BASED DEBATE.

THE CONCERN IS THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE UNCERTAINTY FOR THREATS OF VIOLENCE AROUND THE ELECTION, AS WE SAW LAST TIME.

THAT IS WHAT WE CAN'T PERMIT.

THAT IS WHY THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY AND OBLIGATION TO BUILD A BROAD BIPARTISAN COALITION.

A COALITION BIG ENOUGH, HE SAID, WITH CHENEY AND LIZ CHENEY, TO BERNIE SANDERS THAT IS THE BIGGEST POLITICAL TENT I'VE SEEN, BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT PUTTING COUNTRY OVER PARTY AND PUTTING OUR DEMOCRACY FIRST.

THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW.

THE INABILITY TO CALL OUT TRUMP, SAY, HE USED THE MILITARY AGAINST AMERICAN CITIZENS, TALKING ABOUT THE ENEMY WITHIN, HE HAS HEARD THOSE TALKS.

HE CAN'T JUST DISMISS THEM.

THAT IS A WILLFUL ATTEMPT TO IGNORE SOMETHING WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN AND EXPERIENCED.

THAT IS WHY WE ALL NEED TO BE WIDE-AWAKE IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.

>> TRUMP DID GO SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT THE ENEMY WITHIN IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN KIM JONG- UN.

IN ANY ATTEMPT --YVETTE -- HE'S THE DICTATOR OF NORTH KOREA.

CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN RACE?

AS WE SAID, NOT TO BECAUSE I'M INTERVIEWING YOU, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THESE DISTRICTS IN YOUR DISTRICT COULD BE AMONGST THOSE THAT HAVE A BIG RIPPLE EFFECT, AND MIGHT LEAD TO FLIPPING HOUSE IF YOU WIN.

SO, YOU HAVE GOTTEN VERY CLOSE.

YOUR DISTRICT HAS BEEN A REPUBLICAN DISTRICT, RED FOR 10 YEARS.

THE POLLS SAY, THE "NEWSDAY SEATTLE COLLEGE MONDAY --" POLL SAYS, YOUR OPPONENT, 47%, LaLOTA, 44%.

PRESENTED OF STEVE ISRAEL SAYS THE FACT THIS IS EVEN IN PLACE PLEASANT AND SURPRISING FOR NATIONAL DEMOCRATS.

TALK TO ME ABOUT IT.

>> THIS IS A SWING DISTRICT THAT WAS HELD BEFORE LIZ HELTON, TIM BISHOP, A DEMOCRAT, IT HAS BEEN HELD BY DEMOCRATS MAJORITY OF THE TIME.

THIS IS A CLASSIC SWING, PURPLE DISTRICT IN A BLUE STATE.

I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE WE CAN MAKE SOME GAINS, BECAUSE IT DEMANDS THE POLITICS OF ADDITION, NOT DIVISION.

THERE ARE MORE INDEPENDENT VOTERS IN OUR DISTRICT THAN ANY OTHER DISTRICT IN NEW YORK STATE.

I THINK YOU'RE SEEING THE ENTHUSIASM FOR DONALD TRUMP HAS FALLEN.

THE COURT SUPPORTERS ARE STILL INTENSE, BUT NOT A BROAD-BASED SUPPORT THAT THERE WAS.

INSTEAD, REPUBLICANS FOR APPLE HAS BEEN AN IMPORTANT PART OF BUILDING THAT ISSUE, BECAUSE PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE REAGAN OR BUSH REPUBLICAN, WANT TO TURN THE PAGE ON THIS CRAZINESS AND MOVE PAST THIS TRIBAL DIVIDE.

I THINK THAT IS ONE REASON WE ARE SEEING MOMENTUM.

THAT HOLE YOU SHOWED WAS A WEEK AGO, BUT IT SHOWED CLEAR MOMENTUM AND DIRECTION.

THAT IS NECK AND NECK WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR.

I VERY MUCH LIKE WHERE WE ARE.

I BELIEVE WE ARE FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT, AND IT IS REALLY ABOUT PUTTING COUNTRY OVER PARTY.

AS YOU MENTIONED, I'M NOT A PARTY FIRST PERSON, I AM A COUNTRY OVER PARTY GUY.

I WAS AN INDEPENDENT AS A JOURNALIST, AND I SEE THIS AS A CONTINUITY OF THE FACT-BASED -- I'VE TRIED TO WAGE THIS AGAINST HYPER-PARTISANSHIP, WARNING ABOUT THE DANGERS THAT ARE SO CLEAR AND PRESENT NOW.

ON THE EASTERN END OF LONG ISLAND, WE ARE SEEING THE BROAD PATRIOTIC COALITION COMING TOGETHER, THE ENERGY AND MOMENTUM IS ON OUR SIDE.

I THINK THAT IS WHERE WE CAN HELP RESET AMERICAN POLITICS, OR REBUILD THE MIDDLE AND RESTORE FAITH THAT WE CAN REASON TOGETHER AGAIN USING COMMON FACTS TO PURSUE THE COMMON GOOD.

THE CORE OF THIS CAMPAIGN.

THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE WE WILL WIN HERE.

>> THIS IS A LITTLE BIT TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, LAST NIGHT, KAMALA HARRIS SOUGHT TO PORTRAY, YOU KNOW, TRUMP AS A CERTAIN WAY, AND SOUGHT TO SORT OF TRY TO SAY THAT SHE WAS THERE TO TRY TO BRING AMERICANS TOGETHER, AS OPPOSED TO DIVIDING THEM.

LET'S JUST PLAY THIS.

>> AMERICA, THIS IS NOT A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT WHO IS THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO IS UNSTABLE, OBSESSED WITH REVENGE, CONSUMED WITH REASONS, AND OUT FOR UNCHECKED POWER, AND TO PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME, UNLIKE DONALD TRUMP, I DON'T BELIEVE EVIL WHO DISAGREE WITH ME ARE THE ENEMY.

HE WANTS TO PUT THEM IN JAIL.

I WILL GIVE THEM A SEAT AT THE TABLE.

>> ON THE ONE HAND, TALKING ABOUT TRUMP, ON THE OTHER HAND, TALKING ABOUT A BIG TENT, AS YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING.

HOW DOES THAT KIND OF RHETORIC LAND IN YOUR DISTRICT?

>> I THINK IT RESONATES WELL, BECAUSE IT HAS THE ADDED ADVANTAGE OF BEING TRUE.

SHE IS COMMITTED TO PUTTING REPUBLICANS IN HER CABINET.

THERE ARE PERMANENT REPUBLICANS SUPPORTING HER INTENSELY DOWN THE STRETCH.

LIZ CHENEY, ADAM KINSINGER, ON WAS MEAGER JUST TODAY.

I THINK AMERICA HAS YEARNED FOR THAT KIND OF UNITY GOVERNMENT.

IT IS UP TO HER --SHOULD SHE WIN, AND I BELIEVE SHE WILL -- THAT TO BUILD THE KIND OF A BROAD COALITION, THAT IS WHAT OUR TIMES DEMAND FOR WHAT SHE DESCRIBED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT HYPERBOLE.

IT IS WHAT IS ALL CABINET MEMBERS ARE SAYING ABOUT HIM.

THAT IS THE DANGER AND DISCONNECT.

WHEN I THINK IT'S WE NEED TO GET PAST THE SITUATIONAL ETHICS AND SEEK TO EXCUSE WHAT YOU WOULD CONDEMN IN FRONT OF ANYBODY ELSE EVEN, THINK ABOUT IT IN MORE SIMPLE TERMS.

LAST NIGHT, I WAS SPEAKING IN FRONT OF A MEET THE CANDIDATES PTA HIGH SCHOOL, AND I LOOK AT THE KIDS IN THE ROOM AND THEIR PARENTS.

I THOUGHT, WHAT MESSAGE WOULD WE BE SENDING TO OUR CHILDREN ABOUT JUST CHARACTER, ABOUT BASIC VIRTUES, BUT NOT LYING, DIVIDING AND THREATENING, BUT INSTEAD, REALLY LEANING INTO THE BELIEF THAT THERE IS MORE THAT UNITES US THAN DIVIDES US, AND TRYING TO GOVERN THAT WAY IS THE CHALLENGE.

THE DANGERS TO DEMOCRATIC REPUBLICS ALWAYS COME FROM HYPER-PARTISANSHIP.

THAT IS WHY WE NEED TO POLICE OUR OWN EXTREMES ON OUR RESPECTIVE SIDE AND NEED TO REALLY REBUILD THE MIDDLE.

RESTORE THE SENSE THAT WE CAN SOLVE LIMBS TOGETHER AGAIN, ESPECIALLY FACING THE AUTOCRATIC THREATS THAT WANT TO DENIGRATE OUR DEMOCRACIES AND DIVIDE US.

THE STAKES COULDN'T BE HIGHER.

OUR KIDS ARE ALSO WATCHING.

>> IN DEEPER LET ME ASK ABOUT THE GENDER DIVIDE, AS I ASKED REPRESENTED OF CRENSHAW.

MICHELLE OBAMA APPEALED TO WOMEN, BUT ALSO TO MEN ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S HEALTH, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ET CETERA.

HOW IS THE GENDER DIVIDE PLAYING IN YOUR DISTRICT?

>> WE ARE SEEING IT IN EARLY WE ARE SEEING TURNOUT AMONG WOMEN HIGHER THAN AMONG MEN.

I THINK THAT IS A REFLECTION OF THE UNDERLYING FRUSTRATION.

IT MAY BE HARD TO CAPTURE IN A POLL, WITH THE YOUNG WOMEN ARE DIFFICULT TO POLL OR REPUBLICAN WOMEN WHO ARE STANDING UP AND SENDING A MESSAGE.

I THINK IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN.

IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE, AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE GREAT STORIES OF THIS ELECTION.

THIS ISN'T A CHANCE FOR US TO COME TOGETHER AND GET PAST ALL OF THIS, BUT WOMEN MAY BE LEADING THE WAY RIGHT NOW.

DADS ARE PART OF THAT COALITION.

>> REALLY INTERESTING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

RUNNING FOR CONGRESS, JOHN AVLON, FIRST DISTRICT OF NEW YORK FOR THE DEMOCRATIC ALREADY.

>>> NOW, ONE CHALLENGE THAT FACES DEMOCRAT IS SECURING WORKING-CLASS VOTES.

THE PARTY IS INCREASINGLY VIEWED AS BEING FOR THE EDUCATED AND ELITE, BUT THIS WASN'T ALWAYS THE CASE.

SO, HOW DID THEY GET THERE?

SHANK PROVIDE SOME ANSWERS IN HIS NEW BOOK, "LEFT ADRIFT," WHICH EXPLORES HOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS EVOLVED OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS.

HE SPEAKS TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT ITS IMPACT ON THE UPCOMING ELECTION.

>> Reporter: THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

TIM SHANK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOUR BOOK IS VERY MUCH AN ARGUMENT AGAINST WHAT YOU SEE AS THE PREVAILING NARRATIVE ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

SO, JUST TO GET US STARTED, WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOU THINK THAT DOMINANT NARRATIVE IS, AND THEN, I'M GOING TO OBVIOUSLY ASK YOU WHY YOU THINK IT IS WRONG.

>> SO, THE CORE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW DEMOCRATS GOT TO WHERE THEY ARE TODAY --WHICH IS A PARTY THAT IS REALLY WELL WITH EDUCATED PROFESSIONALS, AND OFTEN WITH CORE VOTERS --BUT STRUGGLES WITH THE WORKING AND LOWER-MIDDLE-CLASS --I THINK THE COURT STORY OFTEN ARGUES THAT THIS HAPPENED --LOSS OF SUPPORT WITH WORKING-CLASS VOTERS --TOOK PLACE BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WANTED IT TO, THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE '60s OR '70s, DEMOCRATS WIN AN EDUCATED, EPIC --AFFLUENT COLLEGE SUBURBANITES COME IN TODAY, THERE ALMOST BEING PUTMON -- PUNISHED FOR THEIR SINS.

THAT MADE SENSE TO ME BEFORE STARTED DIGGING INTO THE RESEARCH FOR THIS BOOK.

THAT BEGAN TO FALL APART RIGHT AWAY ALMOST.

>> Reporter: WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT?

IF THAT IS WRONG, WHAT IS CORRECT INTERVIEW?

>> WHAT I FOUND --THE CHARACTERS WITH THE BOOK FOCUSES ON ARE STAN GREENBERG AND DOUG SHOWN, BOTH PUBLIC ADVISORS AT THE UPPER LEVELS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

BOTH OF THEM WERE ADVISORS, ESPECIALLY TO BILL CLINTON DURING HIS TWO PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS.

GREENBERG AND SHOWN MIGHT NOT BE HOUSEHOLD NAMES, BUT THEIR PARTNERS ON.

GREENBERG, JAMES CARVILLE.

TWO OF THEM WERE TOGETHER FOR THE CLINTON '92 CAMPAIGN, THEY GOING TO BUSINESS AFTER THAT.

AND THEN, MARK PENN FOR PENN AND SHONE, THEN HE BECOMES A SLIPPERY FIGURE AFTER THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.

INTERESTING THING ABOUT HIM AND GREENBERG, BOTH WERE DOCTORATE DISSERTATIONS FOR THE '60s AND '70s LOOKING AT STRUGGLES WITH VOTERS, DEMOCRATS AND OTHERS LIKE LABOR IN THE UK, LOOKING AT THOSE STRUGGLES TAKING PLACE IN REAL TIME.

THEY COME UP WITH THEORIES TO EXPEND WHAT IS HAPPENING, BIG EXPLANATIONS OF THE TYPE YOU DON'T NORMALLY GET FROM CONSULTANTS.

GREENBERG AND SCHOEN DISAGREED ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.

TO THE EXTENT OF THEIR DISAGREEMENT, ONE AREA WHERE THEY DID CONVERGE WAS A SENSE THAT COMING OUT OF THE 1960'S, WITH A RISE OF A WHOLE HOST OF CULTURALLY POLARIZED, REALLY DIVISIVE SOCIAL ISSUES MOVING INTO THE CENTER OF POLITICS, THAT THIS PUT DEMOCRATS IN A REALLY AWKWARD POSITION WITH A LOT OF THEIR HISTORIC WORKING- CLASS --NEITHER OF THEM TOOK WORKING-CLASS POOR FOR GRANTED, IN FACT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE ESSENTIAL FOR DEMOCRATS TO WIN.

THE FACT OF THESE ADVISORS TO CLINTON, WHO IS OFTEN CAST AS A KEY FIGURE IN THE NEOLIBERAL TRANSLATION OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY, THE FACT THAT THERE STRATEGIST ARE SAYING, NO, WORKING-CLASS VOTERS OVER THE CRUCIAL, TO ME, THIS INDICATED SOMETHING A LOT MORE COMP LOCATED THAN JUST DEMOCRATS SAY, FAREWELL TO THE WORKING CLASS, THEREFORE, THEY LOSE WORKING-CLASS VOTES, SOMETHING MORE COMP LOCATED WAS GOING ON.

>> YOUR BOOK WAS REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT DOES REVISIT SOME OF THE GROUND THAT WE ARE SORT OF PLOWING NOW, IN THE CURRENT CAMPAIGN.THE THING, THOUGH, THAT REALLY STANDS OUT IS THE WAY THAT THE REPUBLICANS REALLY HAVE LEANED IN ON THESE CULTURAL ISSUES.

RIGHT?

I SEE YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL -- BUT IS THE CONCLUSION HERE REALLY THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO GET LEFT ON SOME OF THESE CULTURE WAR ISSUES, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP COALITIONS TOGETHER?

>> ONE IMPORTANT POINT TO KEEP IN MIND, I THINK, IS ONE REASON WHY THE TRUMP APPEALS -- LEANING INTO THE CULTURE WAR -- ONE REASON WHY HE HAS AN OPENING TODAY IS BECAUSE THERE WERE REAL FAILURES IN THE BIDEN YEARS.

A LOT OF AMERICANS, REAL INCOMES FELL IN THOSE TWO YEARS.

THE TRANSITION FROM PANDEMIC LIFE WAS REALLY HARD FOR LOTS OF PEOPLE.

A LOT OF BIDEN FOLKS WERE SAYING, AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS THE BEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, ECONOMIC RECOVERY IS THE GREATEST STORY NEVER TOLD, THAT SORT OF TONE DEAFNESS COST THEM A LOT.

I THINK THE OTHER POINT TO KEEP IN MIND IS, POLITICS, IF THIS BOOK IS PARTLY ABOUT HOW, ONCE UPON A TIME, THE DEMOCRATIC RACE WAS IN UNIONS, NOW IT IS UNIVERSITIES --LISTEN, I'M A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

I HAVE ALL OF THE --COLLEGE AMERICA, BLUE OPINIONS, BUT ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS IN THE BOOK THAT I GOT TO BY SEEING HOW STAN GREENBERG AND DOUG SCHOEN --FOR ALL OF THEIR FAULTS -- AT THEIR CORE, THEY WERE TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ORDINARY VOTERS THINK ABOUT THE WORLD.

ONE REASON WHY THEY DID WAS AN FOR THE GOOD LIFE FROM THEIR CONSULTANTS WAS THE GOOD ARGUMENT THEY HAD.

IN A DEMOCRACY, WHATEVER HAS TO BE, IT SHOULD BE A SYSTEM FOR TURNING PUBLIC OPINION TO PUBLIC IN THE LONG RUN, THERE IS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE.

IF YOU IGNORE THE PUBLIC LONG ENOUGH, EVENTUALLY, SOMEONE WILL COME ALONG WHO RESPOND TO VOTERS ON AN ISSUE THEY CARE ABOUT.

IF YOU ARE SOMEONE OF PROGRESSIVE POLITICS, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE IT WILL BE SORE FROM THE RIGHT, A LOT OF POSITIONS YOU DON'T LIKE.

I THINK A LOT OF PROGRESSES FALL INTO A TRAP WHERE IT IS EITHER CAPITULATION TO THE WORST PARTS OF POLITICS, OR STANDING UP BOLDLY IN DEFENSE OF IDEALS AND MAYBE THEY WON'T BE SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLIC AT LARGE NOW THE WAY THAT IT WAS INDICATED EVENTUALLY.

I THINK THE EITHER/OR FRAMINGS OFTEN DO THE VERY THING WE WANT TO HELP A DISSERVICE.

IF, FOR INSTANCE, ON IMMIGRATION, YOU ADOPT MORE OF A BOTH/AND PERSPECTIVE AND ASSUME THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DON'T WANT THE OLD DRACONIAN MEASURES OF DEPORTATION CAMPS, ARMED TROOPS ROAMING CITIES, BUT THEY WANT ORDER AT THE BORDER.

I DON'T THINK IT IS AN INSANE POSITION, BUT IT IS A WAY FOR PROGRESSIVE POLITICIANS TO MEET VOTERS NOW ON THEIR CONCERNS SO THEY CAN PERSUADE THEM OVER THE LONG RUN EVEN IF IT IS NOT MY >> LET'S GO BACK TO CIVIL RIGHTS.

THAT IS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD AS SORT OF THE FIRST GREAT REALIGNMENT.

RIGHT?

IT WAS AN EXPLICIT STRATEGY OF RICHARD NIXON AND HIS SUPPORTERS TO PERSUADE WORKING-CLASS WHITES THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE GONE ON AND ON CIVIL RIGHTS, AND THOSE AREN'T YOUR PEOPLE.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, CAN YOU LOOK BACK AT CIVIL RIGHTS AS, LIKE, FIRST REALIGNMENT AND SAY, IS THERE SOMETHING DEMOCRATS SHOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY, IS UGLY, WITH INSTRUCTORS MORE TODAY AROUND THESE ISSUES THAT ARE SO, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE SO EMOTIONAL AND SO DEEPLY INGRAINED FOR SOME PEOPLE, EVEN IF THOSE AREN'T YOUR POLITICS?

>> ONE IMPORTANT POINTS YOU TO KEEP IN MIND, EVEN IF 1968 IS THE ELECTION WHEN YOU SEE THE NEW COALITION TAKING PLACE, WITH RICHARD NIXON AND GEORGE WALLACE RUNNING AS A THIRD- PARTY CANDIDATE THIS YEAR, COMBINED, WIN 57% OF THE VOTE.

THAT IS A SIGN OF THIS NEW COALITION, SOMETHING IS GOING WRONG THERE.

ANOTHER POINT TO KEEP IN MIND, 19 64 CIVIL RIGHTS ACTS PASSAGE, IMMEDIATELY AFTER, LYNDON JOHNSON SIGNED THE ACT, WINS ONE OF THE BIGGEST MAJORITIES IN AMERICAN HISTORY WITH THE SUPPORT OF MOST OF THE SOUTH.

THEY PICK UP DEEP SOUTH STATES, BUT LYNDON JOHNSON TURNED IN A HISTORICALLY STRONG PERFORMANCE THAT YEAR.

COMING OUT OF THAT EXPERIENCE, THE GREAT BYRON RUSTIN WROTE AN ARTICLE CALLED "FROM PROTESTS TO POLITICS."

HIS ARGUMENT IS WITH MAJOR GAINS OF THE FIRST WAVE OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAVING BEEN ACHIEVED BECAUSE OF LEGISLATION THAT THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, NOW THE MOVEMENT HAS TO MOVE ON TO THE HARDER BUT ULTIMATELY MORE --WORK OF BASICALLY REDISTRIBUTING ECONOMIC RESOURCES FROM CIVIL ISSUES AS OPPOSED TO ECONOMIC ISSUES.

THE ONLY WAY, HE ARGUES, THAT THE MOVEMENT CAN PULL THIS OFF IS BY EMBRACING ELECTORAL POLITICS, WORKING TO CREATE A MAJORITY THAT IS GROUNDED IN WORKING-CLASS VOTERS, A BOTTOM- UP COALITION THAT CROSSES RACIAL LINES, THAT WILL BE DEVOTED TO LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD IN A GAME TILTED.

VISION THAT INFLUENCES AMONG OTHERS, DAN REHBERG, A GRAD STUDENT AT HARVARD AT THE TIME, VOLUNTEERS FOR BUDDY KENNEDY EYE '68 CAMPAIGN AND WRITE A REPORT ABOUT HOW HE SEES THAT THE WORKING-CLASS COALITION IS TAKING KICK --SHEEP -- FROM BOBBY KENNEDY AND ALSO INFLUENCE ON BARACK OBAMA, WHO KEMPIN GENGE IN 28 --2008 AND 2012 HAS A RUSTIC VISION OF HOW TO CAMPAIGN WHICH I THINK IS OFTEN RECOGNIZED.

THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN REALLY IS A DEPARTURE FROM THIS STRATEGY THAT UNITED FIGURES AS DIFFERENT AS STAN GREENBERG, ARCHITECT OF THE IS THE ECONOMY STUPID '92 CAMPAIGN ALL THE WAY THROUGH BARACK OBAMA.

ONE ARE GIVEN FOR THE BOOK, AND MY TAKE ON POLITICS, IF WE ARE THINKING ABOUT WAYS WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY FOR WORKING-CLASS AND POOR PEOPLE, IT IS REFORMS THAT ALLOW GREATER ACCESS AND QUALITY FOR JOBS, HOUSING, EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE.

THIS BATTLES --MATTERS AND THE WAY YOU GET THERE IS WITH A BIG MAJORITY COALITION THAT CAN PUSH THROUGH ALL THE RESTRAINTS THAT EXIST IN THE LAWMAKING PROCESS OF THE UNITED STATES AND REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE IS SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AT THIS POINT IN OUR HISTORY?

IS THERE A FUNDAMENTAL CRITIQUE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT YOU WOULD MAKE?

>> ONE REASON WHY THE BOOK IS CALLED "LEFT ADRIFT," AND NOT "LEFT IN A DITCH SOMEWHERE WHERE HOPE CAN NEVER PENETRATE," IT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK EITHER ELECTORALLY SPEAKING THAT DEMOCRATS ARE IN THIS DISASTROUS STATE.

NO, THEY HAVE ONE THE POPULAR VOTE --IF KAMALA HARRIS HAS WON AFTER 8 OF THE LAST 9 ELECTIONS, THAT IS A HISTORIC RUN THEY MIGHT BE WRITTEN OFF AS THE RED OF RED IN KENTUCKY, ELECTING OTHER GOVERNORS.

WE SEE THIS WITH ABORTION RIGHTS POLICIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

PARTY IS AN ELECTORAL SHIPWRECK.

I'M A BIG IT IS THE CASE THAT THE LEFT IS IN RUINS EITHER.

I THINK ADRIFT CAPTURES THE STATE OF THE PARTY IN THE STATE OF THE LEFT, BECAUSE TO ME, IT IS JUST THAT BOTH A PARTY AND A MOVEMENT THAT HAVE MANY, MANY COMPETING GOALS THAT IT VALUES, BUT NO SENSE OF REAL PRIORITIES.

WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A DEMOCRAT, THE VERY SIMPLE ANSWER.

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, I THINK WHAT IT MEANS MORE THAN ANYTHING I WAS ASSISTANCE.

EVER SINCE DONALD TRUMP GOT ON THAT GOLDEN ESCALATOR, DEMOCRATS HAVE BECOME THE PARTY OF RESISTANCE.

THEY HAVE BEEN OPPOSED TO WHATEVER TRUMP IS, WHICH MEANS YOU END UP LIKE TRUMP SAID, THE AGENDA.

I THINK A PARTY LIKE THAT, NO MATTER WHAT ITS STRUCTURAL AMBITIONS ARE, ONE, IT WILL HAVE A HARD TIME WINNING THE BIG MAJORITIES YOU NEED TO PUSH THROUGH, STRUCTURAL CHANGE, AND TWO, I THINK IT'S KIND OF AN INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE PARTY, WHERE YOU ARE GIVING UP ON THE ENERGY THAT COMES FROM TAKING ON THE STATUS QUO WHEN YOU SAY, STATUS QUO MUST BE DEFENDED AGAINST DONALD TRUMP AT ALL TIMES.

RATIONALE BEHIND THIS KIND OF LIZ CHENEY COALITION RIGHT NOW, A THINK THE FUTURE OF A STRONGER DEMOCRATIC PARTY WOULD BE ONE WITH A MUCH CLEARER VISION OF WHAT IT STOOD FOR, WHICH WOULD BE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT COULD EXPAND WHERE, WITH STRENGTHS OF BIDEN EARS, PRESIDING OVER THESE --SORRY --THIS SPIKE IN INFLATION THAT RESULTED IN THIS DOWN-TICKET STANDARD OF LIVING FOR SO MANY AMERICANS.

THE FAILURE FOR HARRIS TO CLEARLY SINGLY EXPLAIN WHY SHE WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM BIDEN, WHY WOULD IT FEEL SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW --I THINK YOU CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT ANGER UNLESS YOU REALIZE THERE ARE MORE THINGS THAT HAVE GONE ASTRAY IN OUR POLITICS DENTIST DONALD TRUMP.

UNTIL DEMOCRATS GET THAT RIGHT, I THINK THEY WILL BE FACING A BIG PROBLEM.

>> WANTING YOU SAY IN THE BOOK IS, TODAY, SPEAKING MORE GENERALLY ABOUT THE LEFT, YOU SAY, TODAY, IF THERE WAS MORE TO UNIVERSITIES THAN HUMANS, THAN THE CAUSE LOOKS LIKE AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN PROFESSIONALS AND THE POOR WITH VIRTUES OF DIVERSITY OBVIOUS, BUT SOLIDARITY IS HARDER TO COME BY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE MIDDLE OF THE ELECTORATE.

OKAY, I KNOW IT IS GOING TO SOUND LIKE --WHAT IS SO THAT CARES A LOT ABOUT WHAT EDUCATED PEOPLE THINK?

>> AS ONE OF THOSE EDUCATED PEOPLE, I AM IN NO POSITION TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD BE COMPLETELY IGNORED, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY TO MY FELLOW COLLEGE- EDUCATED LIBERAL-LEANING PROFESSIONALS IS THAT WE GET TO BE ON THE BUS, AND IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE A WINNING DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT DOES NOT HAVE A VOTE AT THIS POINT.

YET, WE CAN BE ON THE BUS, BUT WE DON'T GET TO DRIVE THE BUS.

WE DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS TO JUSTIFY THIS.

AND THAT IT IS VERY EASY FOR US TO FORGET THAT OUR GOOD INTENTIONS MIGHT NOT MAP ONTO A LOT OF PEOPLE'S DAILY LIVES, AND THAT IF WE ARE AS EMPATHETIC AND EDUCATED AND UNDERSTANDING AS WE SAY WE ARE, THEN HAVING EMPATHY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE DAILY LIFE WORKINGS IS REALLY HARD FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND FOR THOSE AMERICANS WHO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE PLAYING A GAME THAT IS RIGGED AGAINST THEM.

IF YOU BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY, THAT IS, THAT IS REALLY NOBLE TOO.

HAVING PROGRESSIVE COLLEGE- EDUCATED AMERICANS GET OUT OF OUR OWN HANDS ON THIS STUFF.

THAT IS ALSO PART OF WHAT IT MEANS OKAY.

BUT WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THIS DRIFT TOWARDS UNIVERSITIES OR PROGRESSIVE COLLEGE-EDUCATED AMERICANS IS LEAVING THE PARTY ASTRAY?

GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ONE POINT IS WE DO SEE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING AROUND MUCH OF THE WORLD TODAY.

THAT, AS THE LEFT HAS PICKED UP GROUND WITH COLLEGE-EDUCATED VOTERS, IT OFTEN STRUGGLES WITH WORKING-CLASS VOTERS.

FOR INSTANCE, YOU CAN SEE THE CLIMATE CHANGE BILL RECENTLY.

WHILE THIS IS GOOD, IMPORTANT, LONG-TERM LEGISLATION ON, CHANGE, IT IS ALSO A FACT THAT, FOR A LOT OF DISPROPORTIONALLY WORKING-CLASS AMERICANS, WHAT THEY CARE MOST ABOUT IS THE PRICE OF GAS AT THE PUMP, THE COST OF ELECTRICITY, BECAUSE PAYING THE HEATING BILL, ESPECIALLY FAMILY TO FEED, THAT IS DIFFICULT STUFF.

I THINK FORGETTING TO DEAL WITH THE COST OF ENERGY IN THE SHORT TERM IS ONE CASE, WHILE YOU ARE BUILDING UP CLIMATE POLICY OVER THE LONG-TERM, AGAIN, IT IS ABOUT DELIVERING IN THE IMMEDIATE RUN, THAT THOSE OF US WHO DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT IN IGNORE.

>> AS YOU AND I ARE SPEAKING NOW, THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE, EVEN IF THE ELECTION IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE DECIDED NOVEMBER 5th.

LET'S ASSUME, FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, KAMALA HARRIS DOES WIN.

WHAT SHOULD SHE DO TO GET THE SHIP RIGHT, AS IT WERE, TO PUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON COURSE FOR A MORE LASTING ELECTORAL VICTORY, NOT JUST AS THE PRESIDENCY, BUT IN THE STATE LEGISLATURES, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THE CONGRESS, WHERE THINGS -- YOU KNOW --THINGS HAVE REAL MEANING FOR PEOPLE AS WELL?

>> I THINK, KEEPING UP SOME OF THOSE IN PORT AND BIDEN ADMINISTRATION MEASURES THAT ARE BUILDING UP POWER OVER THE LONG RUN, SORT OF KEEPING UP THE TURN TOWARDS A MORE PROLABOR POLITICS, FOR INSTANCE, I THINK THAT IS ESSENTIAL FOR A LONG-TERM HEALTH OF THE PARTY.

I THINK IT IS ALSO CRUCIAL FOR DEMOCRATS TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THOSE PRICES OF COST OF LIVING EVOLVING AROUND RISING COSTS OF HOUSING AND HEALTHCARE, RISING COSTS OF CHILDCARE, MAKING SURE THAT YOU CAN SHOW THAT YOU CAN MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S THAT THE MACROECONOMIC CONDITIONS, KEEPING LOW UNEMPLOYMENT, MAKING TRANSLATION REALLY IS BEHIND US.

LOOK, WE HAVE A PARTY THAT CAN DO THAT, WHILE ALSO DELIVERING ON THE IMPROVEMENTS IN IMMIGRATION THAT THEY CAN PLACE THE LAST YEAR, THAT THE SHORTER RATE OF IMMIGRATION, IN PARTICULAR, HAS FALLEN UNDER BIDEN.

ONE REASON WHY I THINK REPUBLICANS AREN'T IN A STRONGER POSITION NOW IS, REALLY, THEY ARE RUNNING AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF 2021, AND ALLOWING DEMOCRATS TO CONSOLIDATE THE GAMES THAT THEY HAVE MADE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS COULD BE A FRESH FACE ON THE POLICIES.

LIVING WITH SERIOUS SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THE COST OF LIVING CRISIS.

NO GUARANTEES IN POLITICS.

A LOT CAN GO WRONG.

BUT THOSE ISSUES, I THINK, CAN MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE FOR THE PARTY.

>> OKAY.

THE OTHER THOUGHT EXERCISE, LET'S SAY THAT DONALD TRUMP IS ELECTED PRESIDENT AGAIN.

WHAT DO THE DEMOCRATS DO THEN?

>> ONE ADVANTAGE THAT THEY WILL HAVE IS JUST THE NATURE OF THE WHEN, IF THAT OPPOSITION --YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, AND I THINK YOU ARE --IF HE COMES INTO OFFICE WITH A TEAM OF BUREAUCRATS BEHIND THEM WHO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO GET STUFF DONE, BASICALLY, NOW THEY WILL OVERREACH.

THAT WILL PUT DEMOCRATS IN A REALLY STRONG POSITION TO SPEAK FOR, I GET THE MIDDLE GROUND OF OPINION, ISSUES LIKE IMMIGRATION, NOT HAPPY ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENED AT THE BORDER UNDER BIDEN, BUT ALSO, DOESN'T WANT TO GO BACK TO FAMILY SEPARATION.

BEING ABLE TO POINT TO THE EXCESS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY STICK OUT, DEMOCRAT POLITICIANS, WHEN THEY SPEAK OUT FOR THE CONCERNS OF THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY, AS OPPOSED TO JUST ASSUMING THAT WHATEVER DONALD TRUMP SAYS, THE MAXIMALLY OPPOSITE POSITION IS ALWAYS RIGHT, AND THAT, IF THE ELECTORATE --IF VOTERS DIDN'T GET WHAT WE WANTED THIS TIME -- THEN THE ANSWER IS RAMPING UP ON THE LAW FOR PURSUIT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

GO AFTER TRUMP ILLEGALITIES WHEN THEY ARE AMPLIFIED, BUT MAKE IT CLEAR TO AMERICANS THAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE THEIR CONCERNS, AND THAT YOUR POSITION MEETS THEM WHERE THEY ARE.

YOU WANT TO SEE?

WE HAVE A CONVERSATION OF WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT THAT CONVERSATION TO BE?

>> A PARTY THAT HAS MORE BEYOND JUST THE PARTY OF RESISTANCE, AND THAT HAS GONE AGAINST THIS NATURAL TENDENCY TO JUST FURTHER DOUBLE DOWN ON WINNING THE SUBURBS TO MAKE UP FOR LOSSES WITH WORKING-CLASS VOTERS.

YES, RURAL AMERICA, BUT ALSO INCREASINGLY WITH AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HISPANIC WORKING CLASS VOTERS IN CITIES WHERE, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTING DONALD TRUMP, THEY ARE NOT SHOWING UP AT THE POLLS.

SO, A PARTY THAT HAS NOT JUST ON FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD TO THIS SUBURBANITE, GENTRIFIED COALITION OF OPPOSITION TO WHATEVER A TRUMPAFIED PARTY HAS DONE, BUT WITH A BROAD SWATH OF THE FORMER ELECTORATE.

>> TIM SHANK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, ALL EYEBALLS ON BASEBALL.

CERTAINLY, THAT IS THE CASE IN JAPAN.

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE GLUED TO THE WORLD SERIES TO WATCH THE NEW YORK YANKEES THE L.A. DODGERS.

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WHAT HAS DRIVEN THIS CRAZE?

HOMEGROWN HERO AND DAUGHTERS PLAYER SOHAIL OTANI.

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THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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