How the Democratic Party Lost Its Way and What It Means for This Election

>>> NOW, ONE CHALLENGE THAT FACES DEMOCRAT IS SECURING WORKING-CLASS VOTES.

THE PARTY IS INCREASINGLY VIEWED AS BEING FOR THE EDUCATED AND ELITE, BUT THIS WASN'T ALWAYS THE CASE.

SO, HOW DID THEY GET THERE?

SHANK PROVIDE SOME ANSWERS IN HIS NEW BOOK, "LEFT ADRIFT," WHICH EXPLORES HOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS EVOLVED OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS.

HE SPEAKS TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT ITS IMPACT ON THE UPCOMING ELECTION.

>> Reporter: THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

TIM SHANK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOUR BOOK IS VERY MUCH AN ARGUMENT AGAINST WHAT YOU SEE AS THE PREVAILING NARRATIVE ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

SO, JUST TO GET US STARTED, WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOU THINK THAT DOMINANT NARRATIVE IS, AND THEN, I'M GOING TO OBVIOUSLY ASK YOU WHY YOU THINK IT IS WRONG.

>> SO, THE CORE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW DEMOCRATS GOT TO WHERE THEY ARE TODAY --WHICH IS A PARTY THAT IS REALLY WELL WITH EDUCATED PROFESSIONALS, AND OFTEN WITH CORE VOTERS --BUT STRUGGLES WITH THE WORKING AND LOWER-MIDDLE-CLASS --I THINK THE COURT STORY OFTEN ARGUES THAT THIS HAPPENED --LOSS OF SUPPORT WITH WORKING-CLASS VOTERS --TOOK PLACE BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WANTED IT TO, THAT SOMEWHERE IN THE '60s OR '70s, DEMOCRATS WIN AN EDUCATED, EPIC --AFFLUENT COLLEGE SUBURBANITES COME IN TODAY, THERE ALMOST BEING PUTMON -- PUNISHED FOR THEIR SINS.

THAT MADE SENSE TO ME BEFORE STARTED DIGGING INTO THE RESEARCH FOR THIS BOOK.

THAT BEGAN TO FALL APART RIGHT AWAY ALMOST.

>> Reporter: WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT?

IF THAT IS WRONG, WHAT IS CORRECT INTERVIEW?

>> WHAT I FOUND --THE CHARACTERS WITH THE BOOK FOCUSES ON ARE STAN GREENBERG AND DOUG SHOWN, BOTH PUBLIC ADVISORS AT THE UPPER LEVELS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

BOTH OF THEM WERE ADVISORS, ESPECIALLY TO BILL CLINTON DURING HIS TWO PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS.

GREENBERG AND SHOWN MIGHT NOT BE HOUSEHOLD NAMES, BUT THEIR PARTNERS ON.

GREENBERG, JAMES CARVILLE.

TWO OF THEM WERE TOGETHER FOR THE CLINTON '92 CAMPAIGN, THEY GOING TO BUSINESS AFTER THAT.

AND THEN, MARK PENN FOR PENN AND SHONE, THEN HE BECOMES A SLIPPERY FIGURE AFTER THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.

INTERESTING THING ABOUT HIM AND GREENBERG, BOTH WERE DOCTORATE DISSERTATIONS FOR THE '60s AND '70s LOOKING AT STRUGGLES WITH VOTERS, DEMOCRATS AND OTHERS LIKE LABOR IN THE UK, LOOKING AT THOSE STRUGGLES TAKING PLACE IN REAL TIME.

THEY COME UP WITH THEORIES TO EXPEND WHAT IS HAPPENING, BIG EXPLANATIONS OF THE TYPE YOU DON'T NORMALLY GET FROM CONSULTANTS.

GREENBERG AND SCHOEN DISAGREED ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.

TO THE EXTENT OF THEIR DISAGREEMENT, ONE AREA WHERE THEY DID CONVERGE WAS A SENSE THAT COMING OUT OF THE 1960'S, WITH A RISE OF A WHOLE HOST OF CULTURALLY POLARIZED, REALLY DIVISIVE SOCIAL ISSUES MOVING INTO THE CENTER OF POLITICS, THAT THIS PUT DEMOCRATS IN A REALLY AWKWARD POSITION WITH A LOT OF THEIR HISTORIC WORKING- CLASS --NEITHER OF THEM TOOK WORKING-CLASS POOR FOR GRANTED, IN FACT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE ESSENTIAL FOR DEMOCRATS TO WIN.

THE FACT OF THESE ADVISORS TO CLINTON, WHO IS OFTEN CAST AS A KEY FIGURE IN THE NEOLIBERAL TRANSLATION OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY, THE FACT THAT THERE STRATEGIST ARE SAYING, NO, WORKING-CLASS VOTERS OVER THE CRUCIAL, TO ME, THIS INDICATED SOMETHING A LOT MORE COMP LOCATED THAN JUST DEMOCRATS SAY, FAREWELL TO THE WORKING CLASS, THEREFORE, THEY LOSE WORKING-CLASS VOTES, SOMETHING MORE COMP LOCATED WAS GOING ON.

>> YOUR BOOK WAS REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT DOES REVISIT SOME OF THE GROUND THAT WE ARE SORT OF PLOWING NOW, IN THE CURRENT CAMPAIGN.THE THING, THOUGH, THAT REALLY STANDS OUT IS THE WAY THAT THE REPUBLICANS REALLY HAVE LEANED IN ON THESE CULTURAL ISSUES.

RIGHT?

I SEE YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL -- BUT IS THE CONCLUSION HERE REALLY THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE TO GET LEFT ON SOME OF THESE CULTURE WAR ISSUES, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP COALITIONS TOGETHER?

>> ONE IMPORTANT POINT TO KEEP IN MIND, I THINK, IS ONE REASON WHY THE TRUMP APPEALS -- LEANING INTO THE CULTURE WAR -- ONE REASON WHY HE HAS AN OPENING TODAY IS BECAUSE THERE WERE REAL FAILURES IN THE BIDEN YEARS.

A LOT OF AMERICANS, REAL INCOMES FELL IN THOSE TWO YEARS.

THE TRANSITION FROM PANDEMIC LIFE WAS REALLY HARD FOR LOTS OF PEOPLE.

A LOT OF BIDEN FOLKS WERE SAYING, AT THE SAME TIME, THIS IS THE BEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, ECONOMIC RECOVERY IS THE GREATEST STORY NEVER TOLD, THAT SORT OF TONE DEAFNESS COST THEM A LOT.

I THINK THE OTHER POINT TO KEEP IN MIND IS, POLITICS, IF THIS BOOK IS PARTLY ABOUT HOW, ONCE UPON A TIME, THE DEMOCRATIC RACE WAS IN UNIONS, NOW IT IS UNIVERSITIES --LISTEN, I'M A COLLEGE PROFESSOR.

I HAVE ALL OF THE --COLLEGE AMERICA, BLUE OPINIONS, BUT ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS IN THE BOOK THAT I GOT TO BY SEEING HOW STAN GREENBERG AND DOUG SCHOEN --FOR ALL OF THEIR FAULTS -- AT THEIR CORE, THEY WERE TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ORDINARY VOTERS THINK ABOUT THE WORLD.

ONE REASON WHY THEY DID WAS AN FOR THE GOOD LIFE FROM THEIR CONSULTANTS WAS THE GOOD ARGUMENT THEY HAD.

IN A DEMOCRACY, WHATEVER HAS TO BE, IT SHOULD BE A SYSTEM FOR TURNING PUBLIC OPINION TO PUBLIC IN THE LONG RUN, THERE IS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE.

IF YOU IGNORE THE PUBLIC LONG ENOUGH, EVENTUALLY, SOMEONE WILL COME ALONG WHO RESPOND TO VOTERS ON AN ISSUE THEY CARE ABOUT.

IF YOU ARE SOMEONE OF PROGRESSIVE POLITICS, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE IT WILL BE SORE FROM THE RIGHT, A LOT OF POSITIONS YOU DON'T LIKE.

I THINK A LOT OF PROGRESSES FALL INTO A TRAP WHERE IT IS EITHER CAPITULATION TO THE WORST PARTS OF POLITICS, OR STANDING UP BOLDLY IN DEFENSE OF IDEALS AND MAYBE THEY WON'T BE SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLIC AT LARGE NOW THE WAY THAT IT WAS INDICATED EVENTUALLY.

I THINK THE EITHER/OR FRAMINGS OFTEN DO THE VERY THING WE WANT TO HELP A DISSERVICE.

IF, FOR INSTANCE, ON IMMIGRATION, YOU ADOPT MORE OF A BOTH/AND PERSPECTIVE AND ASSUME THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DON'T WANT THE OLD DRACONIAN MEASURES OF DEPORTATION CAMPS, ARMED TROOPS ROAMING CITIES, BUT THEY WANT ORDER AT THE BORDER.

I DON'T THINK IT IS AN INSANE POSITION, BUT IT IS A WAY FOR PROGRESSIVE POLITICIANS TO MEET VOTERS NOW ON THEIR CONCERNS SO THEY CAN PERSUADE THEM OVER THE LONG RUN EVEN IF IT IS NOT MY >> LET'S GO BACK TO CIVIL RIGHTS.

THAT IS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD AS SORT OF THE FIRST GREAT REALIGNMENT.

RIGHT?

IT WAS AN EXPLICIT STRATEGY OF RICHARD NIXON AND HIS SUPPORTERS TO PERSUADE WORKING-CLASS WHITES THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE GONE ON AND ON CIVIL RIGHTS, AND THOSE AREN'T YOUR PEOPLE.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, CAN YOU LOOK BACK AT CIVIL RIGHTS AS, LIKE, FIRST REALIGNMENT AND SAY, IS THERE SOMETHING DEMOCRATS SHOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY, IS UGLY, WITH INSTRUCTORS MORE TODAY AROUND THESE ISSUES THAT ARE SO, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE SO EMOTIONAL AND SO DEEPLY INGRAINED FOR SOME PEOPLE, EVEN IF THOSE AREN'T YOUR POLITICS?

>> ONE IMPORTANT POINTS YOU TO KEEP IN MIND, EVEN IF 1968 IS THE ELECTION WHEN YOU SEE THE NEW COALITION TAKING PLACE, WITH RICHARD NIXON AND GEORGE WALLACE RUNNING AS A THIRD- PARTY CANDIDATE THIS YEAR, COMBINED, WIN 57% OF THE VOTE.

THAT IS A SIGN OF THIS NEW COALITION, SOMETHING IS GOING WRONG THERE.

ANOTHER POINT TO KEEP IN MIND, 19 64 CIVIL RIGHTS ACTS PASSAGE, IMMEDIATELY AFTER, LYNDON JOHNSON SIGNED THE ACT, WINS ONE OF THE BIGGEST MAJORITIES IN AMERICAN HISTORY WITH THE SUPPORT OF MOST OF THE SOUTH.

THEY PICK UP DEEP SOUTH STATES, BUT LYNDON JOHNSON TURNED IN A HISTORICALLY STRONG PERFORMANCE THAT YEAR.

COMING OUT OF THAT EXPERIENCE, THE GREAT BYRON RUSTIN WROTE AN ARTICLE CALLED "FROM PROTESTS TO POLITICS."

HIS ARGUMENT IS WITH MAJOR GAINS OF THE FIRST WAVE OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAVING BEEN ACHIEVED BECAUSE OF LEGISLATION THAT THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, NOW THE MOVEMENT HAS TO MOVE ON TO THE HARDER BUT ULTIMATELY MORE --WORK OF BASICALLY REDISTRIBUTING ECONOMIC RESOURCES FROM CIVIL ISSUES AS OPPOSED TO ECONOMIC ISSUES.

THE ONLY WAY, HE ARGUES, THAT THE MOVEMENT CAN PULL THIS OFF IS BY EMBRACING ELECTORAL POLITICS, WORKING TO CREATE A MAJORITY THAT IS GROUNDED IN WORKING-CLASS VOTERS, A BOTTOM- UP COALITION THAT CROSSES RACIAL LINES, THAT WILL BE DEVOTED TO LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD IN A GAME TILTED.

VISION THAT INFLUENCES AMONG OTHERS, DAN REHBERG, A GRAD STUDENT AT HARVARD AT THE TIME, VOLUNTEERS FOR BUDDY KENNEDY EYE '68 CAMPAIGN AND WRITE A REPORT ABOUT HOW HE SEES THAT THE WORKING-CLASS COALITION IS TAKING KICK --SHEEP -- FROM BOBBY KENNEDY AND ALSO INFLUENCE ON BARACK OBAMA, WHO KEMPIN GENGE IN 28 --2008 AND 2012 HAS A RUSTIC VISION OF HOW TO CAMPAIGN WHICH I THINK IS OFTEN RECOGNIZED.

THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN REALLY IS A DEPARTURE FROM THIS STRATEGY THAT UNITED FIGURES AS DIFFERENT AS STAN GREENBERG, ARCHITECT OF THE IS THE ECONOMY STUPID '92 CAMPAIGN ALL THE WAY THROUGH BARACK OBAMA.

ONE ARE GIVEN FOR THE BOOK, AND MY TAKE ON POLITICS, IF WE ARE THINKING ABOUT WAYS WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY FOR WORKING-CLASS AND POOR PEOPLE, IT IS REFORMS THAT ALLOW GREATER ACCESS AND QUALITY FOR JOBS, HOUSING, EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE.

THIS BATTLES --MATTERS AND THE WAY YOU GET THERE IS WITH A BIG MAJORITY COALITION THAT CAN PUSH THROUGH ALL THE RESTRAINTS THAT EXIST IN THE LAWMAKING PROCESS OF THE UNITED STATES AND REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE IS SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AT THIS POINT IN OUR HISTORY?

IS THERE A FUNDAMENTAL CRITIQUE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT YOU WOULD MAKE?

>> ONE REASON WHY THE BOOK IS CALLED "LEFT ADRIFT," AND NOT "LEFT IN A DITCH SOMEWHERE WHERE HOPE CAN NEVER PENETRATE," IT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK EITHER ELECTORALLY SPEAKING THAT DEMOCRATS ARE IN THIS DISASTROUS STATE.

NO, THEY HAVE ONE THE POPULAR VOTE --IF KAMALA HARRIS HAS WON AFTER 8 OF THE LAST 9 ELECTIONS, THAT IS A HISTORIC RUN THEY MIGHT BE WRITTEN OFF AS THE RED OF RED IN KENTUCKY, ELECTING OTHER GOVERNORS.

WE SEE THIS WITH ABORTION RIGHTS POLICIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

PARTY IS AN ELECTORAL SHIPWRECK.

I'M A BIG IT IS THE CASE THAT THE LEFT IS IN RUINS EITHER.

I THINK ADRIFT CAPTURES THE STATE OF THE PARTY IN THE STATE OF THE LEFT, BECAUSE TO ME, IT IS JUST THAT BOTH A PARTY AND A MOVEMENT THAT HAVE MANY, MANY COMPETING GOALS THAT IT VALUES, BUT NO SENSE OF REAL PRIORITIES.

WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A DEMOCRAT, THE VERY SIMPLE ANSWER.

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, I THINK WHAT IT MEANS MORE THAN ANYTHING I WAS ASSISTANCE.

EVER SINCE DONALD TRUMP GOT ON THAT GOLDEN ESCALATOR, DEMOCRATS HAVE BECOME THE PARTY OF RESISTANCE.

THEY HAVE BEEN OPPOSED TO WHATEVER TRUMP IS, WHICH MEANS YOU END UP LIKE TRUMP SAID, THE AGENDA.

I THINK A PARTY LIKE THAT, NO MATTER WHAT ITS STRUCTURAL AMBITIONS ARE, ONE, IT WILL HAVE A HARD TIME WINNING THE BIG MAJORITIES YOU NEED TO PUSH THROUGH, STRUCTURAL CHANGE, AND TWO, I THINK IT'S KIND OF AN INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE PARTY, WHERE YOU ARE GIVING UP ON THE ENERGY THAT COMES FROM TAKING ON THE STATUS QUO WHEN YOU SAY, STATUS QUO MUST BE DEFENDED AGAINST DONALD TRUMP AT ALL TIMES.

RATIONALE BEHIND THIS KIND OF LIZ CHENEY COALITION RIGHT NOW, A THINK THE FUTURE OF A STRONGER DEMOCRATIC PARTY WOULD BE ONE WITH A MUCH CLEARER VISION OF WHAT IT STOOD FOR, WHICH WOULD BE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT COULD EXPAND WHERE, WITH STRENGTHS OF BIDEN EARS, PRESIDING OVER THESE --SORRY --THIS SPIKE IN INFLATION THAT RESULTED IN THIS DOWN-TICKET STANDARD OF LIVING FOR SO MANY AMERICANS.

THE FAILURE FOR HARRIS TO CLEARLY SINGLY EXPLAIN WHY SHE WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM BIDEN, WHY WOULD IT FEEL SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW --I THINK YOU CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT ANGER UNLESS YOU REALIZE THERE ARE MORE THINGS THAT HAVE GONE ASTRAY IN OUR POLITICS DENTIST DONALD TRUMP.

UNTIL DEMOCRATS GET THAT RIGHT, I THINK THEY WILL BE FACING A BIG PROBLEM.

>> WANTING YOU SAY IN THE BOOK IS, TODAY, SPEAKING MORE GENERALLY ABOUT THE LEFT, YOU SAY, TODAY, IF THERE WAS MORE TO UNIVERSITIES THAN HUMANS, THAN THE CAUSE LOOKS LIKE AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN PROFESSIONALS AND THE POOR WITH VIRTUES OF DIVERSITY OBVIOUS, BUT SOLIDARITY IS HARDER TO COME BY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE MIDDLE OF THE ELECTORATE.

OKAY, I KNOW IT IS GOING TO SOUND LIKE --WHAT IS SO THAT CARES A LOT ABOUT WHAT EDUCATED PEOPLE THINK?

>> AS ONE OF THOSE EDUCATED PEOPLE, I AM IN NO POSITION TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD BE COMPLETELY IGNORED, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY TO MY FELLOW COLLEGE- EDUCATED LIBERAL-LEANING PROFESSIONALS IS THAT WE GET TO BE ON THE BUS, AND IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE A WINNING DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT DOES NOT HAVE A VOTE AT THIS POINT.

YET, WE CAN BE ON THE BUS, BUT WE DON'T GET TO DRIVE THE BUS.

WE DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS TO JUSTIFY THIS.

AND THAT IT IS VERY EASY FOR US TO FORGET THAT OUR GOOD INTENTIONS MIGHT NOT MAP ONTO A LOT OF PEOPLE'S DAILY LIVES, AND THAT IF WE ARE AS EMPATHETIC AND EDUCATED AND UNDERSTANDING AS WE SAY WE ARE, THEN HAVING EMPATHY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE DAILY LIFE WORKINGS IS REALLY HARD FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND FOR THOSE AMERICANS WHO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE PLAYING A GAME THAT IS RIGGED AGAINST THEM.

IF YOU BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY, THAT IS, THAT IS REALLY NOBLE TOO.

HAVING PROGRESSIVE COLLEGE- EDUCATED AMERICANS GET OUT OF OUR OWN HANDS ON THIS STUFF.

THAT IS ALSO PART OF WHAT IT MEANS OKAY.

BUT WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THIS DRIFT TOWARDS UNIVERSITIES OR PROGRESSIVE COLLEGE-EDUCATED AMERICANS IS LEAVING THE PARTY ASTRAY?

GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ONE POINT IS WE DO SEE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING AROUND MUCH OF THE WORLD TODAY.

THAT, AS THE LEFT HAS PICKED UP GROUND WITH COLLEGE-EDUCATED VOTERS, IT OFTEN STRUGGLES WITH WORKING-CLASS VOTERS.

FOR INSTANCE, YOU CAN SEE THE CLIMATE CHANGE BILL RECENTLY.

WHILE THIS IS GOOD, IMPORTANT, LONG-TERM LEGISLATION ON, CHANGE, IT IS ALSO A FACT THAT, FOR A LOT OF DISPROPORTIONALLY WORKING-CLASS AMERICANS, WHAT THEY CARE MOST ABOUT IS THE PRICE OF GAS AT THE PUMP, THE COST OF ELECTRICITY, BECAUSE PAYING THE HEATING BILL, ESPECIALLY FAMILY TO FEED, THAT IS DIFFICULT STUFF.

I THINK FORGETTING TO DEAL WITH THE COST OF ENERGY IN THE SHORT TERM IS ONE CASE, WHILE YOU ARE BUILDING UP CLIMATE POLICY OVER THE LONG-TERM, AGAIN, IT IS ABOUT DELIVERING IN THE IMMEDIATE RUN, THAT THOSE OF US WHO DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT IN IGNORE.

>> AS YOU AND I ARE SPEAKING NOW, THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE, EVEN IF THE ELECTION IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE DECIDED NOVEMBER 5th.

LET'S ASSUME, FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, KAMALA HARRIS DOES WIN.

WHAT SHOULD SHE DO TO GET THE SHIP RIGHT, AS IT WERE, TO PUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON COURSE FOR A MORE LASTING ELECTORAL VICTORY, NOT JUST AS THE PRESIDENCY, BUT IN THE STATE LEGISLATURES, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THE CONGRESS, WHERE THINGS -- YOU KNOW --THINGS HAVE REAL MEANING FOR PEOPLE AS WELL?

>> I THINK, KEEPING UP SOME OF THOSE IN PORT AND BIDEN ADMINISTRATION MEASURES THAT ARE BUILDING UP POWER OVER THE LONG RUN, SORT OF KEEPING UP THE TURN TOWARDS A MORE PROLABOR POLITICS, FOR INSTANCE, I THINK THAT IS ESSENTIAL FOR A LONG-TERM HEALTH OF THE PARTY.

I THINK IT IS ALSO CRUCIAL FOR DEMOCRATS TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THOSE PRICES OF COST OF LIVING EVOLVING AROUND RISING COSTS OF HOUSING AND HEALTHCARE, RISING COSTS OF CHILDCARE, MAKING SURE THAT YOU CAN SHOW THAT YOU CAN MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S THAT THE MACROECONOMIC CONDITIONS, KEEPING LOW UNEMPLOYMENT, MAKING TRANSLATION REALLY IS BEHIND US.

LOOK, WE HAVE A PARTY THAT CAN DO THAT, WHILE ALSO DELIVERING ON THE IMPROVEMENTS IN IMMIGRATION THAT THEY CAN PLACE THE LAST YEAR, THAT THE SHORTER RATE OF IMMIGRATION, IN PARTICULAR, HAS FALLEN UNDER BIDEN.

ONE REASON WHY I THINK REPUBLICANS AREN'T IN A STRONGER POSITION NOW IS, REALLY, THEY ARE RUNNING AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF 2021, AND ALLOWING DEMOCRATS TO CONSOLIDATE THE GAMES THAT THEY HAVE MADE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS COULD BE A FRESH FACE ON THE POLICIES.

LIVING WITH SERIOUS SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THE COST OF LIVING CRISIS.

NO GUARANTEES IN POLITICS.

A LOT CAN GO WRONG.

BUT THOSE ISSUES, I THINK, CAN MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE FOR THE PARTY.

>> OKAY.

THE OTHER THOUGHT EXERCISE, LET'S SAY THAT DONALD TRUMP IS ELECTED PRESIDENT AGAIN.

WHAT DO THE DEMOCRATS DO THEN?

>> ONE ADVANTAGE THAT THEY WILL HAVE IS JUST THE NATURE OF THE WHEN, IF THAT OPPOSITION --YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, AND I THINK YOU ARE --IF HE COMES INTO OFFICE WITH A TEAM OF BUREAUCRATS BEHIND THEM WHO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO GET STUFF DONE, BASICALLY, NOW THEY WILL OVERREACH.

THAT WILL PUT DEMOCRATS IN A REALLY STRONG POSITION TO SPEAK FOR, I GET THE MIDDLE GROUND OF OPINION, ISSUES LIKE IMMIGRATION, NOT HAPPY ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENED AT THE BORDER UNDER BIDEN, BUT ALSO, DOESN'T WANT TO GO BACK TO FAMILY SEPARATION.

BEING ABLE TO POINT TO THE EXCESS OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY STICK OUT, DEMOCRAT POLITICIANS, WHEN THEY SPEAK OUT FOR THE CONCERNS OF THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY, AS OPPOSED TO JUST ASSUMING THAT WHATEVER DONALD TRUMP SAYS, THE MAXIMALLY OPPOSITE POSITION IS ALWAYS RIGHT, AND THAT, IF THE ELECTORATE --IF VOTERS DIDN'T GET WHAT WE WANTED THIS TIME -- THEN THE ANSWER IS RAMPING UP ON THE LAW FOR PURSUIT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

GO AFTER TRUMP ILLEGALITIES WHEN THEY ARE AMPLIFIED, BUT MAKE IT CLEAR TO AMERICANS THAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE THEIR CONCERNS, AND THAT YOUR POSITION MEETS THEM WHERE THEY ARE.

YOU WANT TO SEE?

WE HAVE A CONVERSATION OF WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT THAT CONVERSATION TO BE?

>> A PARTY THAT HAS MORE BEYOND JUST THE PARTY OF RESISTANCE, AND THAT HAS GONE AGAINST THIS NATURAL TENDENCY TO JUST FURTHER DOUBLE DOWN ON WINNING THE SUBURBS TO MAKE UP FOR LOSSES WITH WORKING-CLASS VOTERS.

YES, RURAL AMERICA, BUT ALSO INCREASINGLY WITH AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HISPANIC WORKING CLASS VOTERS IN CITIES WHERE, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTING DONALD TRUMP, THEY ARE NOT SHOWING UP AT THE POLLS.

SO, A PARTY THAT HAS NOT JUST ON FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD TO THIS SUBURBANITE, GENTRIFIED COALITION OF OPPOSITION TO WHATEVER A TRUMPAFIED PARTY HAS DONE, BUT WITH A BROAD SWATH OF THE FORMER ELECTORATE.

>> TIM SHANK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.