11.04.2024

November 4, 2024

NY Magazine writer Rebecca Traister offers a last look at what could happen on election day in America. Co-directors Yuval Abraham and Basel Adra tell the story of villages being subject to forced evictions and demolitions in the West Bank in their documentary “No Other Land.” Russian Opposition Politician Vladimir Kara-Murza on being released in a Russian prisoner swap and fighting for democracy.

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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

THE U.S. ELECTION AND WHAT'S AT STAKE ON THESE CRUCIAL ISSUES.

>> BECAUSE A VOTE FOR HIM IS A VOTE AGAINST US.

AGAINST OUR HEALTH.

AGAINST OUR WORK .

>>> FIRST, AS MICHELLE OBAMA ARTICULATES WHAT MANY WOMEN APPEAR TO BE THINKING.

AUTHOR REBECCA TRICKSTER SAYS WOMEN'S RIGHTS MAY BE THE DECISIVE IN THIS ELECTION.

>>> THEN THE MIDDLE EAST PERIOD IT'S WRONG, PALESTINIANS DESERVE TO BE FREE.

>> AND A POWERFUL DOCUMENTARY CALLED NO OTHER LAND , AND ISRAELI AND A PALESTINIAN COME TOGETHER TO DOCUMENT THE DESTRUCTION OF WEST BANK VILLAGES.

>>> AND DEMOCRACY AND DICTATORS .

>> WHAT MORAL RIGHT WHAT I HAVE TO CALL FOR MY FELLOW RUSSIAN CITIZENS TO STAND UP AND RESIST PUTIN DICTATORSHIP THEN TRY TO DO IT MYSELF?

>> Reporter: CONFRONTING VLADIMIR PUTIN, POISONED, JAILED, NOW FREE, VLADIMIR KERR MODES OF TALKS ABOUT KEEPING RESISTANCE ALIVE.

>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WHERE, SYLVIA A AND SIMON B PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS MARK J GLESSNER, THE FILAMENT AND D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION .

CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

XXXX >>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

IN THESE FINAL HOURS IN THE U.S.

RESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, THE HEADLINES LOOK A LOT LIKE THEY HAVE ALL ALONG.

BUT POLLS SUGGEST A DEAD EVEN RACE.

BUT COULD POLLSTERS BE MISSING A CRITICAL VOTING BLOC THAT COULD DETERMINE THE OUTCOME OF THIS ELECTION AGAIN?

THAT QUESTION LURKS BEHIND THIS BOMBSHELL HEADLINE FROM THE DES MOINES REGISTER.

KAMALA HARRIS LEAPFROGS DONALD TRUMP TO TAKE THE LEAD NEAR ELECTION DAY.

THIS IN RUBY RED IOWA.

THE WIDELY ESTEEMED IOWA POLLSTER , ANN SELZER, SAYS WOMEN ARE DRIVING THE LATE SHIFT TOWARD DEMOCRATS.

AGE AND GENDER ARE THE TWO MOST DYNAMIC FACTORS THAT ARE EXPLAINING THESE NUMBERS IS WHAT SHE CONCLUDES.

AND HERE IS THE FORMER FIRST LADY, MICHELLE OBAMA SPEAKING IN MICHIGAN, WARNING THAT WHEN WOMEN LOSE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS, MEN LOSE , AS WELL.

>> IF YOUR WIFE IS SHIVERING AND LEADING ON THE OPERATING ROOM TABLE DURING A ROUTINE DELIVERY GONE BAD , HER PRESSURE DROPPING AS SHE LOSES MORE AND MORE BLOOD OR SOME UNFORESEEN INFECTION SPREADS AND HER DOCTORS AREN'T SURE IF THEY CAN ACT, YOU WILL BE THE ONE PRAYING THAT IT'S NOT TOO LATE .

YOU WILL BE THE ONE PLEADING FOR SOMEBODY, ANYBODY TO DO SOMETHING.

SO I AM ASKING Y'ALL FROM THE CORE OF MY BEING TO TAKE OUR LIVES SERIOUSLY .

PLEASE .

DO NOT .

IN THE HANDS OF POLITICIANS.

MOSTLY MEN WHO HAVE NO CLUE OR DO NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT WE AS WOMEN ARE GOING THROUGH.

WHO DON'T FULLY GRASP THE BROAD REACHING HEALTH IMPLICATIONS THAT THEY ARE MISGUIDED POLICIES WILL HAVE ON OUR HEALTH OUTCOMES .

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE STANDING TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS ARE WOMEN WITH THE ADVICE OF THEIR DOCTORS.

WE ARE THE ONES WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE TO KNOW WHAT WE NEED.

>> Reporter: THAT IS A POWERFUL PLEA AND AN IMPORTANT STATEMENT.

AND JUST TO NOTE, THERE IS A BIG GENDER GAP.

YOUNG WOMEN BREAKING FOR HARRIS, YOUNGMAN RAKING FOR TRUMP DURING THE SELECTION.

NOW JOURNALIST REBECCA TRACED AND WRITES ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND WOMEN'S VOICES FOR NEW YORK MAGAZINE.

SHE COVERED OBAMA'S SPEECH SAYING NO ONE HAS ARTICULATED THE STAKES IN THE SELECTION LIKE MICHELLE OBAMA.

AND REBECCA TRACED HER IS WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO LOOK, ANYBODY COULD SEE ANYBODY WHO LISTENED TO THE SPEECH, WHO READ THE OP-ED THAT WAS MADE OUT OF THE SPEECH REALIZES HOW INCREDIBLY POWERFUL IT WAS.

BUT WHY DID YOU FEEL MOVED TO ACTUALLY WRITE A WHOLE ARTICLE ABOUT IT?

>> WELL, IN PART BECAUSE I THINK THE MESSAGE WAS SO SIMPLE AND DIRECT.

IT WAS AND SHOULD BE SO BASIC.

THE CORE OF WHAT MICHELLE OBAMA WAS SAYING IS WOMEN ARE HUMAN .

WOMEN ARE PEOPLE .

AND THAT SHOULD BE THE VERY BASIC BOTTOM LINE OF WHAT WE UNDERSTAND.

BUT WHEN YOU HEAR WHAT HAS BEEN COMING AT US FROM THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN RHETORICALLY AND ALSO FROM THE AMERICAN RIGHT WING IN TERMS OF HIS POLICIES , THIS DENIAL OF HEALTHCARE TO MILLIONS OF WOMEN IN SO MANY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES, WHEN YOU COMBINE THAT WITH THE LANGUAGE, THE LITERALLY DEHUMANIZING LANGUAGE .

THE RACIST AND MISOGYNIST LANGUAGE THAT DONALD TRUMP AND MEMBERS OF HIS PARTY HAVE BEEN USING IN THESE RECENT YEARS AND GETTING EVER MORE INTENSE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, SALT SORT OF CULMINATING WITH THE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN RALLY THAT TOOK PLACE THE NIGHT AFTER MICHELLE OBAMA'S SPEECH.

THAT COURSE SIMPLE MESSAGE, THAT ARGUMENT THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE, THAT THEIR LIVES HAVE VALUE .

TO THE WOMEN THEMSELVES AND TO THE MEN WHO LOVE AND LIVE WITH THEM .

THIS IS SUCH A CORE MORAL CALL THAT I THINK IS AT THE HEART OF HOW WE HAVE SEEN WOMEN ORGANIZING NOW SINCE THE DOBBS DECISION AND IN FACT GOING BACK TO DONALD TRUMP'S FIRST WIN IN 2016.

WE HAVE SEEN WOMEN ORGANIZING IN WAYS THAT ARE PRETTY UNPRECEDENTED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

I THINK MICHELLE OBAMA'S SPEECH >> YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO A JUST NOW, I COULD HAVE BEEN IN AFGHANISTAN LISTENING TO THAT PLACE, LISTENING TO THAT SPEECH.

I COULD'VE BEEN ANYWHERE WHERE WOMEN'S RIGHTS ARE SIMPLY NOT ALLOWED.

CAN GET THIS IS BEING SAID BY A FORMER FIRST LADY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND I AM SURE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD LISTENING TO THAT IT PUNCHES A VERY, YOU KNOW, POWERFUL SORT OF NOTE.

BUT EVERYBODY ALSO WILL BE ASKING, THOSE WHO ARE SITTING ON THE EDGE OF THEIR SEATS WONDERING HOW THIS IS GOING TO GO, WHAT ABOUT THIS I WILL PULL SUGGESTING, AS I PUT IT, THAT KAMALA HARRIS IS AHEAD OF TRUMP BY THREE POINTS IN IOWA , WHICH IS, I THINK, A RELIABLY REPUBLICAN STATE, RIGHT?

>> YES, IT'S A VERY REPUBLICAN STATE.

IT IS A VERY UNEXPECTED POLLING RESULT AND I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S GOING TO TURN OUT TO BE ACCURATE BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK ARE INCREASING RELIANCE ON POLLS AS ADDICTIVE IN THE NEWS MEDIA, I THINK IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC AS WE HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT FOR YEARS.

BUT I WANT TO SAY THAT ANN SELZER IS ONE OF THE MOST IF NOT THE SINGLE MOST RELIABLE POLLSTER BASED ON HER PAST RECORD THAT WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES POLITICS.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I AM SAYING THAT WHAT SHE FOUND IS DEFINITELY GOING TO BE RIGHT TOMORROW.

IT WOULD BE A SHOCKING RESULT BUT I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE BEEN LIVING THROUGH YEARS IN WHICH THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF SHOCKING RESULTS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE POLLS WITH OUR ELECTORAL CHOICES, ESPECIALLY SINCE DOBBS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT POLLSTERS FIGURED OUT HOW TO PULL WELL SINCE THE DOBBS DECISION .

SCRAMBLED SO MANY PEOPLE'S ENGAGEMENT WITH ELECTORAL POLITICS AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT TOO GOES BACK BEFORE DOBBS.

SO YES, SULSER'S POLL IS AN OUTLIER.

IF IT WERE TO I THINK IT WOULD FORECAST A LANDSLIDE IN A LOT OF PLACES BESIDES IOWA IF OTHER PATTERNS ARE MOVING THAT WAY.

I SHOULD NOTE THAT IOWA ITSELF , HER POLL REFLECTED A MASSIVE SWING TOWARD HARRIS AND TOWARD THE DEMOCRATS.

FROM A POLE THAT SHE TOOK THIS SUMMER.

BUT IN IOWA, A VERY STRICT ABORTION BAN WENT INTO EFFECT THIS SUMMER.

AND LIVING WITH THOSE RESULTS, AGAIN, THE DEHUMANIZING RESULTS OF DENYING WOMEN BASIC HEALTHCARE , OPS DECK REPRODUCTIVE CARE , HAS A REAL IMPACT ON HOW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND POLICY AND THE WEIGHT AND IMPORT OF ELECTORAL CHOICES AND THEIR VOTES SO WE WILL SEE WHETHER IT TURNED OUT TO BE AN ACCURATE POLL OR NOT.

BUT I WILL SAY THAT I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE ALL THE OTHER POLLING IS MORE ACCURATE THE.

THE POLLING THAT SHOWS NECK AND NECK OR WITH TRUMP AHEAD BECAUSE POLLSTERS HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO PULL IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.LET ME JUST ADD , SO WHAT SULSER DISCOVERED IS THAT THERE WAS A SURPRISINGLY HIGH NUMBER OF WOMEN OVER 65 YEARS OLD IN THIS POLL AND AS I SAID EARLIER, IT APPARENTLY , IF POLLSTERS ARE THE BELIEFS, THERE'S A BIG GENDER GAP.

SO THE OLDER DEMOGRAPHIC IS REALLY INTERESTING.

WHERE ARE YOU COMING TO US FROM?

DO YOU HAVE ANY ANECDOTAL REPORTORIAL STORIES THAT COULD, I DON'T KNOW, INFORM A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT WOMEN ARE THINKING?

>> YEAH, I HAVE SOME PURE ANECDOTES, WHICH YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO REALLY AVOID, I GUESS, AS A JOURNALIST.

I THINK THEY ARE INDICATIVE OF CERTAIN KIND OF PATTERNS AND ENTHUSIASM.

SO I LIVE IN MAINE AND MY MOTHER'S FAMILY COMES FROM A RURAL COMMUNITY THAT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN VERY CONSERVATIVE .

AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT ANECDOTALLY, THE SHIFT THAT I HAVE SEEN UP THERE.

AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY REPUBLICAN COMMUNITY.

VERY RURAL, QUITE REMOTE.

AND I HAVE GENUINELY COUNTED MORE HARRIS SCIENCE IN THAT COMMUNITY THAN TRUMP SIGNS WHICH IS A SHOCK .

I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BE SAYING THAT.

I ALSO HEARD FROM SOMEBODY WHO WORKS IN A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY FOR OLDER PATIENTS THAT EVERY RESIDENT THAT SHE HAD SPOKEN TO WAS PLANNING ON VOTING FOR HARRIS.

THAT MADE MY JAW HIT THE FLOOR.

I HAD HEARD FROM FRIENDS WHOSE PARENTS WHO ARE REPUBLICAN, SOME OF THEM VOTED FOR TRUMP IN 2016 AND 2020, THAT THEIR PARENTS IN FLORIDA ARE VOTING FOR HARRIS.

SIMILAR STORIES COMING OUT OF PENNSYLVANIA.

I AM NOT ADDICTING HERE .

I DON'T NECESSARILY BELIEVE IN POLITICAL PREDICTION BUT WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THE FINDINGS IN SULSER'S POLL ABOUT OLDER AMERICANS AND OLDER WOMEN MATCH ANECDOTALLY A LOT OF THINGS THAT I AM HEARING AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT OLDER WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES LIVED IN A PRE-ROE WORLD WHERE THEY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT DENIAL OF HEALTHCARE MEANT FOR WOMEN'S WELL-BEING.

AND IN A TIME WHEN , BEFORE ROE V WADE, THE PARTISAN DIVIDE ON ABORTION WAS NOT NEARLY AS CLEAR AS IT IS NOW.

THERE WERE LOTS OF REPUBLICANS WHO WERE ADVOCATES FOR LEGAL AND A LOT OF WOMEN CAME OF AGE IN THAT WORLD, WHETHER THEY WERE REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS, BELIEVING IN ABORTION RIGHTS AND THE PROTECTIONS OF ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE.

WE COULD BE SEEING THAT IN SOME OF THE OLDER WOMEN WHO NOW ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF ROE V WADE, IN A POST DOBBS UNIVERSE.

>> SO NO ACCIDENT THAT MICHELLE OBAMA APPEALED NOT JUST TO WOMEN BUT TO THE MEN, AS WELL.

SO I SPOKE TO A TRUMP SUPPORTER, THE TEXAS CONGRESSMAN DAN CRENSHAW.

THIS WAS LAST WEEK AND THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

>> I UNDERSTAND THE PITFALLS POLITICALLY BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DOING WHAT IS RIGHT AND STANDING FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.

AND IT'S NOT EXACTLY TRUE THAT THIS IS SUCH A LOSING ISSUE.

TRUMP'S POSITION IS WIDELY HELD BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

COMING, ANY POLL THAT YOU SEE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS SHOWS THAT ABOUT 60, 70% OF PEOPLE THINK THAT ABORTION PAST 12 WEEKS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED.

IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.

TRUMP'S POSITION HAS BEEN ACTUALLY CANNOT EVEN DO THAT BUT TO SAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO FEDERAL BAN AND THAT IT SHOULD BE LEFT TO THE STATES.

SO TRUMP IS A FAR MORE MODERATE CANDIDATES IF PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY BEING OBJECTIVE ABOUT WHAT MODERATION IS.

HE IS SAYING TRUMP IS BEING MODERATE.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, HE WOULD SAY THAT BECAUSE TRUMP HAS ALSO SAID I WANT TO VOTE FOR A FEDERAL BAN.

BUT, OF COURSE, WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY OF THESE STORIES, PROPUBLICA HAS BEEN DOING INCREDIBLE REPORTING ABOUT YOUNG WOMEN WHO HAVE DIED, WHO HAVE GOTTEN ILL, WHO HAD LIFE- THREATENING SITUATIONS BECAUSE OF THIS CRISIS OF NOT BEING ABLE TO GET THEIR HEALTHCARE.

SO WHAT DO YOU MAKE?

IS THAT A SELLING POINT TO A TRUMP AUDIENCE?

BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN WIN SOME WOMEN ON THIS ISSUE.

>> NO, THEY ARE NOT.

NO, IT'S NOT , IT'S NOT ACCURATE.

IT IS NOT A TRUE REPRESENTATION.

DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF AS AN INDIVIDUAL IS ALL OVER THE I DON'T THINK ANYBODY BELIEVES THAT HE IS A DEEP MORAL STAKE IN A ANTIABORTION LEGISLATIVE AGENDA.

BUT IT IS WHAT HIS PARTY'S BASE HAS BUILT ITS POWER ON AND THUS FROM WHICH HE GOT HIS BASE POWER AND HIS POLITICAL RISE.

HE APPOINTED A SUPREME COURT , HIS PARTY STOLE A SEAT FROM BARACK OBAMA WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO POINT TO JUSTICE AND WAS DENIED THAT OPPORTUNITY IN 2016.

HE STACKED A COURT WITH JUSTICES .

HE KNEW, HE BRAGGED ABOUT OVERTURNING ROE V WADE .

ABOUT APPOINTING THE JUSTICES WHO DID THE WORK THAT HIS PARTY HAD BEEN WORKING TOWARD FOR DECADES.

SO WHETHER OR NOT NOW THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT HIS MODERATE POSITIONS AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO DO A BAND.

THAT IS EXACTLY WITH THE BASE OF HIS PARTY WANTS TO DO AND THEY ARE TRYING TO COVER THE NOTION THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY SHARES A POSITION WITH A DONALD TRUMP IS EASILY DISPROVEN BY THE FACT THAT MAJORITIES, HUGE MAJORITIES HAVE WON IN EVERY ABORTION REFERENDUM THAT HAS BEEN ON A STATE BALLOT SINCE THE OVERTURN OF DOBBS .

PLUS, A NUMBER OF STATE LEGISLATIVE ELECTIONS , STATE SUPREME COURT ELECTIONS IN WISCONSIN AND PENNSYLVANIA, THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT WANT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IMPOSING LIMITS ON THEIR ABILITY TO GET SAFE , QUALITY REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE AND THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING, AS YOU KNOW .

>> YEAH, I WANT TO FIT IN ONE MUST QUESTION VERY QUICKLY BECAUSE HIS PRIMARY RIVAL, FORMER GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY SAYS SHE WILL VOTE FOR HIM BASICALLY, HE IS NOT PERFECT BUT HE IS BETTER.

BUT SAYS YES HE HAS GOT FLAWS, HE WILL MAKE MISTAKES AND HE, BASICALLY SAYS HE IS NOT PROPERLY APPEALING TO WOMEN.

THE THINGS HE IS DOING IN HIS CAMPAIGN ARE NOT THE WAY TO APPEAL TO WOMEN VOTERS.

>> I THINK NIKKI HALEY IS CORRECT ON THIS.

I THINK IT IS REALLY NOTABLE THAT IN AN ELECTION WHERE THERE'S ALL KINDS OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE AND REPORTING ABOUT SOME REPUBLICANS WHO FORMERLY VOTED FOR HIM MOVING TO VOTE FOR HARRIS AND TRUMP HIMSELF NOT INVITING HALEY, NOT HAVING HALEY CAMPAIGNING WITH HIM.

YOU KNOW, SHE WAS A PERSON WHO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN HIS PARTY PREFERRED.

HE IS NOT ACTUALLY INVITING WOMEN , OR HE IS HOLDING THESE HORRIBLE RALLIES AND SAYING TERRIBLE THINGS ABOUT WOMEN.

HE IS NOT WORKING TO APPEAL TO THEM.

SHE IS RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

>> REBECCA TRACED HER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>>> DESCENDANT, OF COURSE, DONALD TRUMP RISLEY SAID HE WILL TAKE CARE OF WOMEN, HE WILL PROTECT THEM WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.

NOW IN THE BATTLEGROUND STATE OF MICHIGAN, ANGER AT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S HANDLING OF ISRAEL'S WAR COULD CAUSE KAMALA HARRIS CRUCIAL MUSLIM AMERICAN VOTES .

AFTER MORE THAN A YEAR OF BRUTAL FIGHTING, THE WHITE HOUSE HAS FAILED TO PRODUCE A LASTING CEASE-FIRE AND INNOCENT CIVILIANS CONTINUE TO SUFFER.

NOW A POWERFUL NEW DOCUMENTARY, NO OTHER LAND TELLS THE STORY OF A GROUP OF VILLAGERS IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK WHICH FOR YEARS HAVE BEEN SUBJECT OF FORCED EVICTIONS AND DEMOLITIONS BY SETTLERS AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

IT IS CODIRECTED BY PALESTINIAN WHO GREW UP IN AND ABRAHAM, A JOURNALIST DETERMINED TO EXPOSE INJUSTICE AND BOTH JOINED ME RECENTLY FROM PARIS TO DISCUSS THE FILM >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> YOU KNOW I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST.

HOW YOU CAME TOGETHER.

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF CONNECTION THAT THEN LET YOU TO MAKE THIS FILM TOGETHER?

>> WE MET TOGETHER IN MY VILLAGE FIVE YEARS AGO THROUGH OTHER COMMON ACTIVIST .

IN BETWEEN US, THE CODIRECTOR TO DO JOURNALISM WORK AND ME TIME IN THE FIELD COMMENTING WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THEN THEY START TO COME MORE AND MORE TO YUVAL ABRAHAM AND WE WERE BACK IN THE SAME AGE DOING JOURNALISM TOGETHER.

AND FROM THERE THE IDEA CAME OF DOING THIS DOCUMENTARY.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE DOING OUR OWN FILM BEFORE.

OTHER THAN ACTIVISM AND FILMING AND TAPING.

AND WE DECIDED TO GO THROUGH THIS EXPERIENCE TOGETHER.

>> SO I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD WANT TO FILM WHAT IS HAPPENING TO YOUR OWN VILLAGES FROM THE SETTLERS AND THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION FORCES, BUT YUVAL, WHAT WAS IN YOUR INTEREST, WHY DID YOU DECIDE?

WHAT WAS THE STORYTELLING PARTS THAT ATTRACTED YOU AS AN ISRAELI?

>> WELL, I LEARNED ARABIC WHEN I WAS YOUNGER.

IT REALLY CHANGED MY LIFE.

WHEN I MET BASEL I WAS INTERESTED IN WRITING BY THE POLICY OF HOUSE DEMOLITIONS WHICH I FELT WAS VERY UNDERCOVERED IN THE ISRAELI MEDIA BECAUSE PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK IN THE LAND BETWEEN THE RIVER AND THE CUC IS REALLY BULLDOZERS DESTROYING PALESTINIAN HOMES.

WHEN I GREW UP, THEY TOLD ME IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE BUILDING ILLEGALLY BUT WHEN I BEGAN RESEARCHING AS A JOURNALIST I UNDERSTOOD QUITE QUICKLY THAT THIS IS BEING USED AS A TOOL TO PUSH PALESTINIANS OUT OF THEIR LAND .

THE MILITARY REFUSES 99% OF BUILDING PERMITS FOR PALESTINIANS IN THE WEST BANK SO IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN A PERMIT AND I WAS INTERESTED IN WRITING ABOUT THAT AND THAT IS WHEN I MET BASEL.

AND IF YOU ASKED ME WHY I WAS INTERESTED IN DOING THIS, I THINK IT IS FOR TWO REASONS.

FIRST OF ALL, I AM OPPOSED TO THE MILITARY OCCUPATION AND I FEEL IT IS A GRAVE INJUSTICE THAT IS BEING DONE IN MY NAME .

AND I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, MY PEOPLE CANNOT EVER BE SECURE, FREE OF PALESTINIANS OR NOT, FREE AND FOR ME I THINK IT IS IN A WAY, WHAT I SEE IS THE RIGHT PATH FORWARD.

>> OBVIOUSLY THIS IS ALL BEING DONE , AT LEAST WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT NOW, IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th AND HOW ISRAEL WAS TRAUMATIZED AND HOW THERE HAS BEEN A HUGE AMOUNT MORE ACTIVITY FROM SETTLERS AND, AGAIN, THE OCCUPATION FORCES AGAINST THE PALESTINIAN VILLAGERS IN THE WEST BANK, NOT TO MENTION WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GAZA.

I THINK 60 MORE VILLAGES HAVE BEEN EVICTED VILLAGES.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST, BASEL, BECAUSE THIS IS CALLED NO OTHER LAND.

AND WE HAVE A CLIP THAT ESSENTIALLY , IT IS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE FILM OR YOU ARE NARRATING YOURSELF AS A YOUNG CHILD WATCHING THIS TRAUMA AND BASICALLY TELLING THE WORLD HOW YOU BECAME TRAUMATIZED WE WILL PLAY THIS FIRST CLIP GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> SO BASEL, WE SEE HER FATHER THERE AND IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING THAT HE IS AN ACTIVIST.

HER FAMILY ARE ACTIVISTS AND YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY AN ACTIVIST BUT WITH A CAMERA IN HAND.

WHEN DID YOU START FILLING YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR VILLAGES EXPERIENCE?

>> SO I GREW UP, AS YOU SAID, WHERE ACTIVISM AND PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO OPPOSE OCCUPATION AND CONFRONT THEIR CONDITIONS THAT OCCUPATION TRYING TO PUT US UNDER IT POINT SO GOOD FOR EXAMPLE THE STORY OF MY MOTHER, HOW THEY BUILT THE SCHOOL, MY PARENTS DIDN'T HAVE THE CHANCE TO GO TO SCHOOL BECAUSE IT WAS FORBIDDEN BUT MY MOTHER AND THE COMMUNITY FIGHT TO BUILD A SCHOOL AND I HAD THE CHANCE TO BE EDUCATED.

AND I LEARNED ENGLISH AND I CAN SPEAK TO YOU TODAY IN ENGLISH.

AND ALSO I LEARNED THE CAMERA, THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND ALMOST THE ONLY TOOL WE HAVE BESIDES OURS STEAD FASTNESS IN OUR LAND FROM OUR HOME.

>> YUVAL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES THIS SO COMPELLING AS WE GET TO SEE ORDINARY VILLAGERS AND THEIR EMOTIONS , THE MEN, THE WOMEN, THE THE HOUSES ARE BEING DEMOLISHED.

THIS IS THE FOCUS, AS YOU SAID, THE DEMOLITION OF HOUSES WHICH IS A REGULAR THING.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW, WHEN YOU SAW THAT, IF YOU DID IN REAL , HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

YOU SAID THAT YOU WON'T DO THINGS IN YOUR NAME BUT YOU ACTUALLY RIGHT THERE.

>> YEAH, IT IS A REALLY GOOD POINT.

BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, WE HAVE SEEN IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I THINK THEY KNOW THE FACTS AND I JUST SPOKE ABOUT FACTS BEFORE, ABOUT 99% AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT FACTS ARE ONLY ONE PART OF THE TRUTH.

THERE IS A MUCH DEEPER EMOTION IN TRUTH, WHAT IT MEANS LIKE TO LIVE UNDER THIS MILITARY CONTROL AND YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO BASEL, I INTERVIEWED HIM AND IN FIVE MINUTES WE HAD TO RUN BECAUSE THERE WAS A STRUCTURE IN HIS VILLAGE THAT WAS BEING DEMOLISHED AND STANDING THERE AND LOOKING AT THE FACES OF THE FAMILY THAT IS HOUSE.

I REMEMBER I HEARD MY FIRST HAND GRENADE.

THE SENSE OF DREAD THAT YOU GO TO SLEEP AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE NEXT DAY YOUR HOUSE WILL BE DEMOLISHED.

ALL OF THAT IS AN EMOTIONAL FEELING IN A TRUTH THAT I FEEL JOURNALISM IS OFTEN NOT ABLE TO PORTRAY.

WHICH REALLY MOVED ME.

I THINK IT IS PART OF WHAT WE TRY TO DO IN THE FILM , A WAY TO SPEAK FOR THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF ALL OF IT.

>> SO ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT IS A COMMON THEME THROUGHOUT THIS IS THE NOTION OF IMPUNITY.

FOR INSTANCE, FOR INSTANCE, POLICE SHOT AND PARALYZED A YOUNG BOY CALLED HER ROOM, HE LATER DIED.

THIS WAS AS A HOUSE WAS BEING DEMOLISHED AND A GENERATOR WAS BEING REMOVED AND THAT IS VERY, YOU KNOW, VISCERALLY PORTRAYED IN THE MOVIE.

WAS THIS , WAS HIS DEATH EVER HELD ACCOUNTABLE ?

DID ANYBODY EVER ANSWER TO THAT?

>> SO THERE WAS NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE SOLDIER THAT SHOT HIM IN THE NECK.

FOR US.

NOBODY SHOULD BE KILLED OR MASSACRED FOR GETTING OUT OF THE CITY OR BUILD A HOME OR TO HAVE THOSE BASICS LIKE HUMAN RIGHTS LIKE EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD SHOULD HAVE .

AND WITHOUT FIGHTING FOR IT.

THIS IS BASICS THAT NOBODY, THIS IS WHY WE PUT HIS STORY, THE PRICES WE PAY JUST TO STAY ON OUR LAND, TO HAVE A SCHOOL, TO BUILD A CLINIC OR A WATER PIPE OR TO CONNECT OUR HOME WITH AN EXTRA CITY.

>> SO AS YOU KNOW, THE ISRAELIS BASICALLY SAY AND IT IS SAY IN THE EARLY 1980s THAT THIS PARTICULAR AREA, INCLUDING YOUR VILLAGE, WAS DESIGNATED AS A RESTRICTED MILITARY ZONE.

THEY THEN SAID THAT PALESTINIANS NEVER LIVED THERE PERMANENTLY, ONLY SEASONALLY.

AND THE COURT, APPARENTLY, AGREED.

SO HERE'S WHAT THE MILITARY TOLD THE NEW YORK TIMES.

OVER THE YEARS, THE CLOSURE PALESTINIANS WHO BEGAN BUILDING ILLEGALLY IN THE AREA.

THE COURT RULED THAT THE PETITIONERS ACTED IN BAD FAITH AND ILLEGALLY BUILT IN THE AREA WHILE AND INTERIM ORDER WAS ISSUED AND REJECTED ANY ATTEMPT TO COMPROMISE TO THEM.

I AM GOING TO ASK YOU, YUVAL, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> FIRST OF ALL I THINK IT IS RIGHT THAT YOU TELL YOUR VIEWERS THAT THE JUDGE WROTE THIS VERDICT.

HE LIVE 20 MINUTES AWAY.

AND WE SHOULD ALSO THINK ABOUT HOW LUDICROUS AND OUTRAGEOUS IT IS TO BELIEVE.

PALESTINIANS SHOULD EVEN BE RULED UNDER THE SYSTEM OF LAWS THAT THEY CANNOT AFFECT.

SO THE JUDGES AND THE MILITARY LAWS THAT YOU HAVE NOW REFERRED TO ARE ALL BEING CREATED BY JEWISH ISRAELIS WELL PALESTINIANS ARE LIVING UNDER MILITARY APPLICATION WITH NO ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THE LAWS WHICH CONTROL THEIR LIVES AS YOU KNOW VERY WELL, ACCORDING TO THE FIRST GENEVA CONVENTION, TRANSFER OF PUBLISHER FROM OCCUPIED TERRITORY IS ILLEGAL, THE MILITARY CAN COME UP WITH.

AND TO DIRECTLY RESPOND TO THE CLAIM, THERE ARE SECRET STATE DOCUMENTS THAT MAGAZINE HAS UNCOVERED THAT SHOW VERY CLEARLY THAT THE MILITARY TRAINING GROUND WAS DESIGNED IN 1982 PUSH PALESTINIAN FARMERS OFF OF THEIR LANDS AND 20% OF THE WEST BANK ARE THESE MILITARY TRAINING GROUNDS AND THEY ARE USED AS A TOOL, USED AS A TOOL TO PREVENT PALESTINIAN FROM OBTAINING VOTING PERMITS AND TO EXPAND ISRAELI PERMITS IN THE AREA.

LIKE MAGICALLY THE MILITARY TRAINING GROUNDS ONLY FALLS ON THE PALESTINIAN VILLAGES IN THE AREA WHILE ISRAEL BUILDS SETTLEMENT.

ALL OF THIS IS CLEARLY ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, AS FOR THE RECENT ICJ RULING.

I REALLY THINK THAT WE SHOULD NOT TAKE THESE CLAIMS SERIOUSLY WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FACTS AND WE LOOK AT INTERNATIONAL LAW.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY THE CLIP AT THIS POINT.

THIS , FOR WANT OF A BETTER WAY TO EXPLAIN IT, IS GREEN AND YELLOW.

LICENSE PLATES IN THEIR COLLARS BETWEEN IS REALLY VEHICLES AND PALESTINIAN VEHICLES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO USE THE ROADS AND DRIVE AROUND THE WEST BANK.

>> [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> BASEL, HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

>> LIKE BEING FOREIGN AND GREW UP AND RAISED UNDER THE SITUATION OF INJUSTICE AND DIRECT RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION AND ALL THE TIME WHEN TO FIGHT ALMOST EVERY DAY WE HAVE TO BE HARASSED BY EITHER SOLDIERS, SOMETIMES THERE IS A BIG ATTACKS WOULD BE THERE BY SOLDIERS AND SOMETIMES IT IS FRUSTRATING TO BE LIVING THIS LIFE, TO BE HONEST.

AND WHEN ON THE OTHER HAND SEE THAT NOBODY IS, AS YOU SAID BEFORE, NOBODY IS HELD ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS >> HOW HAVE THINGS CHANGED FOR YOU, BASEL, AND EVEN WHAT YOU HAVE NOTICED, YUVAL ON THE WEST BANK SINCE OCTOBER 7th ?

>> THEY TOOK ADVANTAGE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GAZA.

THE GOVERNMENT BUT THE MILITARY AND THE SETTLERS.

SO IN THE AREA WHERE I LIVE IN THE SOUTH, THERE IS SIX COMMUNITIES THAT FLED BECAUSE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

SOLDIERS AND SELLER WITHOUT STOPPING, COMING IN THE NIGHT AND THE DAY ATTACKING THEM.

THEY BURNED HOMES, THEY BULLDOZER DID HOUSES AND WATERWORKS AND DESTROYING PROPERTIES.

ARRESTING PEOPLE AT MIDNIGHT AND TORTURING THEM AND THREATENING THEM AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN 24 HOURS, WE WILL COME BACK INTO DUE TO DEATH.

BEING ARRESTED IS HORRIBLE SENSE THE WAR STARTED AND THE KILLING ALSO IN THE WEST BANK, KILLING OF PALESTINIANS BOTH BY SETTLERS AND IS REALLY SOLDIERS.

IN HIGH NUMBERS.

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HEARD SEVERAL TIMES FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAT ESPECIALLY IN THE MOST EGREGIOUS CASES THEY ALWAYS SAY THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE LOOKED INTO.

THIS VIOLATES OUR CODES OF CONDUCT, ET CETERA.

YUVAL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THOSE STATEMENTS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I LOOK AT THE STATISTICS BECAUSE I'M A JOURNALIST.

THERE IS A AND IS REALLY HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION AND THEY LOOKED AT THOUSANDS OF CASES OF SETTLER VIOLENCE ATTACKS AGAINST PALESTINIANS FROM 2005 UNTIL 2023.

AND THE CHANCES FOR PALESTINIANS TO RECEIVE ACCOUNTABILITY OR A SETTLER TO BE ACTUALLY INDICTED IS LESS THAN 3%.

FOR SOLDIERS THAT ATTACK PALESTINIANS IT IS LESS THAN 1%.

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE THAT THE POLICE OR THE UNITS INVESTIGATING THE ARMY FIND OUT THAT NO WRONGDOING HAPPENED, IT IS BECAUSE THEY FAILED TO INVESTIGATE ACCORDING TO THEM.

SO I THINK, AGAIN, I NOTE THIS IS A CLAIM THAT THE ISRAELI STATE IS MAKING BUT I FIND IT TO BE FACTUALLY FALSE.

THERE IS VERY VERY LITTLE ACCOUNTABILITY.

I THINK ACCOUNTABILITY CANNOT COME WHEN A MILITARY IS INVESTIGATING ITSELF OR WHEN A SYSTEM IS, YOU KNOW, PREDICATED ON THE DOMINANCE OF ONE GROUP OVER THE OTHER.

AND I REALLY THINK THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE SO WE CAN BUILD A IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES AND DECADES.

YOU DON'T START, ME AND BASEL ARE THE SAME AGE BUT WHEN OUR GRANDPARENTS WERE BORN.

IF YOU WANT TO REACH THE PLACE WHERE BOTH PEOPLE CAN HAVE POLITICAL AND INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS IN THE LAND WE HAVE TO END THIS OCCUPATION AND IT HAS BEEN WAY TOO LONG.

>> ONE OF THE ASKED ORDINARY FACTS AROUND YOU BOTH COLLABORATING TO DO THIS FILM IS THAT YOU ARE BOTH TOGETHER DOING THIS FILM.

IT IS AN AREA OF CORPORATION BETWEEN AND ISRAELI AND A PALESTINIAN.

FRIENDSHIP, IT IS AN AREA OF UNDERSTANDING.

YOU KNOW, IT IS WHAT EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SEE, I THINK, IN SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION FOR THE FUTURE.

BUT YUVAL, YOU HAVE COME UNDER CRITICISM FOR THIS WORK FROM YOUR OWN FELLOW CITIZENS AND EVEN WHEN YOU PRESENTED THIS FILM AT THE BERLIN FILM FESTIVAL WHERE YOU WON BEST DOCUMENTARY , YOUR SPEECH WAS IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNED BY ONE OR MORE GERMAN OFFICIALS AS BEING ANTISEMITIC.

HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THAT?

>> I WAS VERY OUTRAGED BY THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE WORD ANTISEMITISM CARRIES A LOT OF WEIGHT FOR ME.

LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER WAS BORN IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP AND MOST OF MY FAMILY WAS MURDERED IN THE HOLOCAUST.

TODAY, SADLY, ANTISEMITISM IS ON THE RISE.

IT IS ON THE RISE ON THE WHITE --RIGHT WING AND ON THE LEFT.

BECAUSE OF THAT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THIS WORD NOT BE USED TO SILENCE REAL AND LEGITIMATE CRITICISM OF ISRAEL'S OCCUPATION OR ISRAEL'S HORRENDOUS POLICIES ALL AROUND THE LAND.

AND WHEN PEOPLE USE THIS WORD, NOT ONLY TO SILENCE PALESTINIAN CRITICS BUT ALSO ISRAELIS LIKE ME WHO BELIEVE THAT WHAT IS GOING ON IS WRONG , THEY ARE EMPTYING IT OUT OF MEETING AND PRECISELY BECAUSE WE SHOULD CARE ABOUT ANTISEMITISM, THIS IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS AND I THINK IT IS LITERALLY PUTTING JEWISH LIVES, AS WELL, IN DANGER.

THIS FILM IS CALLED NO OTHER LAND.

YOU HAVE NO OTHER LAND TO LIVE ON.

SO WHAT IS YOUR FUTURE?

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF YOUR VILLAGE RIGHT NOW?

>> MY VILLAGE , SO MANY PALESTINIAN VILLAGES IN SO- CALLED AREA C, IT IS UNDER SO MUCH ATTACKS AND COMMUNITY AFTER ANOTHER, COMMUNITY THIS IS NOT STOPPING EVEN WITH THE VERY VERY SMALL SANCTIONS THAT THE U.S. AND OTHER GOVERNMENTS ARE DOING AGAINST THIS TERRORIST SETTLERS.

I THINK THE U.S. ON THIS SHOULD STOP THIS FROM GOING ON, STOP AND PUT LIMITS AND REDLINES FOR THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO STOP THIS ACTIONS AND THIS ATTACKS AGAINST PALESTINIAN COMMUNITIES.

AGAINST THE WAR IN GAZA WHICH IS SO HORRIBLE.

AS PALESTINIANS TODAY, VERY WORRIED AND AFRAID FOR OUR FUTURE WITH WHAT WE ARE FACING TODAY FROM ALL OF THIS STAND FOR RESPONSIBILITY AND SHOULD DEFEND THE LAW AND SHOULD STOP THIS FROM GOING ON.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR OWN RELATIONSHIP, HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT?

>> WE WERE FRIENDS AND WE ARE ALLIES.

WE ARE DOING A FORM OF RESISTANCE, WE HAVE SHARED VALUES AND WE, AS I SAID, WE THINK THAT THE CURRENT SITUATION OF OCCUPATION IS WRONG AND PALESTINIANS DESERVE TO BE FREE.

WE BELIEVE IN A FUTURE WHERE BOTH PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS HAVE INDIVIDUAL AND POLITICAL RIGHTS.

IN ACCORDANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL LAW.

AND YEAH, THIS IS, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW BASIL, HOW WOULD WE DESCRIBE THIS?

>> I AGREE, YEAH.

>> BASEL ADRA AND YUVAL ABRAHAM, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> SHARED VALUES, THE FILM OPENS HERE IN THE UK THIS WEEKEND.

IT IS STILL LOOKING FOR A DISTRIBUTOR IN THE UNITED STATES.

>>> NOW RUSSIAN POLITICS AND THE PRICE FOR THOSE THAT DARE IN APRIL, 2022, SOON AFTER RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE, THE OPPOSITION LEADER, VLADIMIR CARDOZO WAS ONE OF MANY CITIZENS ARRESTED OF SPEAKING OUT.

BY CHANCE HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO AN INTERVIEW WITH OUR CALLER, WALTER ISAACSON.

HE FOUND HIMSELF AFTER BARS.

HE WAS RELEASED AFTER MORE THAN TWO YEARS IN A PRISONER SWAP WHICH INCLUDED THE AMERICAN JOURNALIST EVAN GERSHKOVICH.

A VERY UNIQUE EXCUSE HE HAD FOR MISSING OUT ON HIS LAST INTERVIEW.

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> VERY GOOD TO BE ON YOUR PROGRAM.

I'M SORRY I MISSED OUR APPOINTMENT LAST TIME IN 2022 BUT I'M GLAD I WAS ABLE TO MAKE IT.

>> AND I JUST SAID WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW BUT APRIL, 2022, I WAS SITTING HERE WAITING FOR YOU AND YOU WERE ABOUT TO COME ON THE SHOW AND THEN YOU DIDN'T.

TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED.

>> WELL, I WAS COMING HOME TO MY MOSCOW APARTMENT FROM A MEETING.

I WAS DRIVING.

INTERVIEW I HAD SCHEDULED WITH YOU, SUPPOSED TO DO THIS FROM MY APARTMENT IN MOSCOW.

AS I WAS APPROACHING MY HOUSE, I SAW A BRIDGE.

I NOTICED A SURVEILLANCE CAR FOLLOWING ME IN MY REARVIEW MIRROR .

DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A RUSSIAN POLITICIAN IN THE ERA OF THE VLADIMIR PUTIN, THAT IS NOT A SURPRISE, YOU GET IT ALL THE TIME.

SO OKAY, ONE SURVEILLANCE CAR.

BUT AS I WAS APPROACHING MY HOUSE , MY APARTMENT BLOCKS , I NOTICED A SILVER MINIVAN STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENTRANCE.

AGAIN, DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION BECAUSE I LIVE IN DOWNTOWN MOSCOW.

IT IS ALWAYS BUSY WITH CARS AROUND.

AS I STOPPED TO PRESS THE BUTTON TO OPEN THE GATE TO GO AND PARK IN MY COURTYARD, I SAW OF MY CAR, 506 POLICE OFFICERS .

BLACK UNIFORMS.

WHO GOT OUT OF THE MINIVAN AND STARTED RUNNING BEHIND MY CAR.

SO OF COURSE AT THAT MOMENT I UNDERSTOOD EVERYTHING SO I JUST IN TIME TO PARK MY CAR AND TEXT I WAS BEING ARRESTED.

IN THAT MOMENT, THE COMMANDING POLICE OFFICER TOLD ME TO COME FOLLOW THEM.

I SAW THE PHONE RINGING I GUESS FROM THE PRODUCERS, AS WELL.

THEY WERE DRIVING ME TO THE POLICE STATION.

THEY SEIZED MY PHONE SO I WAS NO LONGER ALLOWED TO USE IT.

SO I FELT VERY BAD BECAUSE IT WAS AN IMPOLITE WAY TO NOT TURN UP TO OUR SCHEDULED INTERVIEW BUT I HAVE HAD SOME CIRCUMSTANCES FEEL OUT OF CONTROL SO I HOPE YOU WILL FORGIVE ME FOR THAT.

>> THE BEST EXCUSE WE HAVE EVER HEARD.

BUT YOU HAD BEEN, I THINK, POISONED TWICE , ALLEGEDLY THEY TRIED TO POISON YOU TWICE.

AND YET YOU STILL WENT BACK TO MOSCOW TO FIGHT AGAINST , PROTEST AGAINST THE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

WHY DID YOU FEEL THE NEED TO GO BACK?

>> WELL, I AM A RUSSIAN POLITICIAN.

RUSSIA IS MY COUNTRY.

A POLITICIAN HAS TO BE BEHELD TO THE CITIZENS OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

WHAT MORAL RIGHT WHAT I HAVE TO CALL FOR MY FELLOW RUSSIAN CITIZENS TO STAND UP AND RESIST PUTIN'S DICTATORSHIP IF I DIDN'T DO IT MYSELF?

SO THERE WAS NEVER ANY QUESTION IN MY MIND AS TO LEAVING RUSSIA.

TO ME THIS IS A RESPONSIBILITY THAT TRANSCENDS ANY CONSIDERATIONS OF PERSONAL SAFETY AND PERSONAL COMFORT.

IF I AM CALLING ON MY FELLOW RUSSIAN CITIZENS TO ADD TO THIS DICTATORSHIP I HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DO IT MYSELF.

>> IN ADDITION TO PROTESTING THE RUSSIAN INVASION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GOT YOU IN TROUBLE WITH THE PUTIN REGIME IN RUSSIA IS THAT YOU COME ALONG WITH BILL BROWDER, OUR FRIEND AND THE LATE SENATOR JOHN McCAIN HELPED PUSH THE ACT BOTH IN THE UNITED STATES AND THEN SOME OF THE SANCTIONS AROUND THE WORLD.

WHEN WHAT THAT WAS AND WHAT IT HAS DONE.

>> THE ACT WAS AN ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT REVOLUTION LEGISLATION.

WAS FIRST INTRODUCED IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS BACK IN 2010.

BY SENATOR JEN CARDONE, DEMOCRAT FROM MARYLAND.

CHAIR OF THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE.

REPUBLICAN OF ARIZONA WHO IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL AND PROMINENT VOICES ON CAPITOL HILL FOR DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS.

AND PUT FORWARD A VERY SIMPLE PREMISE .

THOSE PEOPLE, THOSE WHO GET A CHANCE WHO ARE KNOWN BASED ON EVIDENCE, NEEDLESS TO SAY , TO BE PERSONALLY IMPLICATED IN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS OR CORRUPTION WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO GET AMERICAN VISAS OR AMERICAN ASSETS AND USE THE FINANCIAL BAKING SYSTEM OF THE UNITED STATES.

SOUNDS VERY SIMPLE TODAY BUT AT THE TIME IT WAS A REVOLUTIONARY CONCEPT BECAUSE BEFORE IN PREVIOUS ERAS , SANCTIONS WERE IMPOSED GENERALLY, ON EVERYBODY, ON WHOLE COUNTRIES BUT THE RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE INDIVIDUAL.

IT SHOULD BE ASSIGNED TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE AND I HAD THE HONOR AND PRIVILEGE TO WORK ALONGSIDE FIRST OF ALL, MY FRIEND, MY MENTOR, THE LEADER OF THE RUSSIAN DEMOCRATIC OPPOSITION.

AND ADVOCATING FOR THIS LAW, COMMENCING THE AMERICAN CONGRESS TO PASS THIS LAW.

I SHOULD ADD SIGNIFICANT RESISTANCE FROM THE THEN U.S. ADMINISTRATION.

THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OF THE TIME.

A RECENT POLICY WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN SO THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS LEGISLATION.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, BOTH U.S. CONGRESS ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS PAST THIS LEGISLATION OVERWHELMINGLY.

AND I CONTINUE THIS WORK AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER COUNTRIES.

AND I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT TODAY, THERE ARE LAWS ON THE BOOKS AND 35 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND JURISDICTIONS AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT INCLUDES THE UNITED STATES, CANADA, GREAT BRITAIN, AUSTRALIA, ALL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION AND MANY OTHER PLACES.

THIS IS A VERY CERTAIN STATEMENT FROM DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.

TO PRIDE THEMSELVES ON ADHERING TO SUCH NOTIONS AS RULE OF LAW, DEMOCRACY AND RESPECT TO HUMAN RIGHTS.

PEOPLE WHO ARE VIOLATING THOSE LAWSUITS ARE NO LONGER WELCOME.

BUT OF COURSE YOU CAN GUESS WHAT THE ATTITUDE OF THE KREMLIN REGIME WAS BECAUSE THIS LEGISLATION, THEY LOST THEIR COVETED ASSETS TO THE DEMOCRATIC WEST.

SO THESE TWO POISONINGS THAT WERE ORGANIZED AGAINST ME BY 2016 AND 2017, THAT WAS RESPONSE TO THE MAGNITSKY ACT.

AGAIN, WHEN I WAS TRIED IN MOSCOW CITY COURT FOR MY PUBLIC OPPOSITION TO THE PUTIN REGIME AND THE WAR IN UKRAINE, THE JUDGE WHO HANDED ME MY 25 YEAR PRISON SENTENCE , SO-CALLED HIGH TREASON, WAS THE VERY SAME JUDGE, HIS NAME IS SERGEI, WHO JAILED BACK IN 2008.

THE SAME JUDGE WHO WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BE SANCTIONED BY THE UNITED STATES MAGNITSKY ACT, FOR WHICH I APPLIQUED IT.

SO THE KREMLIN DELIBERATELY, VERY DEMONSTRABLY APPOINTED THAT SAME JUDGE TO TRY ME AND TO CONVICT ME AND TO HAND ME MY 25 YEAR PRISON SENTENCE JUST TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR AND OBVIOUS.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

TO ME THIS IS VERY CLEAR PROOF OF JUST HOW EFFECTIVE THE MAGNITSKY ACT IS AND JUST HOW FEARFUL THESE CROOKS AND MURDERERS AND HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES ARE OF THIS LEGISLATION.

I WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY ONCE AGAIN TO THANK THOSE LEADERS AND THE AMERICAN VOTERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHO WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING THAT LEGISLATION PASSED.

>> YOU SAID THAT THE MAGNITSKY ACT WHICH SANCTIONS INDIVIDUALS HAS BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE.

WE HAVE ALSO PUT WHAT WE HAVE SAID WILL BE CRIPPLING SANCTIONS ON THE RUSSIAN AM NOT SURE THAT SANCTIONS HAVE DONE ALL THAT MUCH.

THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY SEEMS TO BE OKAY.

EXPLAIN TO ME WHY HAVE SANCTIONS NOT WORKED BETTER OVERALL?

>> THE SANCTIONS MECHANISMS OPPOSED ON PUTIN'S RUSSIA SINCE THE START OF THE FULL-SCALE WAR IN UKRAINE ARE NOT WORKING EFFECTIVELY AND THEY ARE NOT WORKING EFFECTIVELY FOR TWO VERY DIFFERENT REASONS.

I WILL BE OUT OF PRISON FOR THREE MONTHS AFTER THE PRESUMED ON AUGUST FIRST.

AND DURING ALL THIS TIME CATCHING UP ON 2 1/2 YEARS WORTH OF REALLY READING AND YEARNING AND SORT OF LISTENING TO ANY NEW THINGS AND ONE OF THE MAIN AREAS I HAVE BEEN SORT OF EDUCATING MYSELF IN THE WAY THAT ALL THESE NEW SANCTIONS HAVE BEEN IMPOSED IN THE WAY THEY ARE OPERATING SINCE FEBRUARY OF 2002 SINCE THE OCCUPATION OF UKRAINE.

AND THERE ARE TWO NATURE PROBLEMS OVER THESE SANCTIONS THE FIRST PROBLEM IS THE FACT , THAT IS THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THERE ARE MANY GLARING HOLES IN THESE SANCTIONS MECHANISMS THAT ALLOW THE PUTIN REGIME TO GO AROUND IT.

IT IS A SHOCKING FACT THAT TO THIS DAY , ALMOST THREE YEARS INTO THE FULL-SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE, UP TO 30% OF THE MILITARY EQUIPMENT AND MILITARY TECHNOLOGIES USED BY THE RUSSIAN ARMY AGAINST UKRAINE STILL COME FROM WESTERN ALLIED FORCES .

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

THE FACT IS THAT THE RUSSIAN MISSILE HIT A CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL IN KYIV ON JULY, EIGHTH OF JULY THIS YEAR, CONTAINS SEVERAL WESTERN PRODUCED MICROCHIPS, INCLUDING U.S.

PRODUCED MICROCHIPS.

>> EXPLAINED TO ME WHY THAT IS POSSIBLE, THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW.

>> TO ME IT SPEAKS TO THE FACT TO ENFORCE EXPORT CONTROLS, TO ENFORCE ALL THESE COMPLIANT RULES.

THEY ALL EXIST, THEY ARE ALL BUT WE SEE THAT THERE ARE STILL GLARING HOLES IN THESE SANCTIONS.

MECHANISMS THAT BY THE WAY, THESE GENERAL MEASURES BUT ALSO PERSONAL TARGETED SANCTIONS WHICH HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE MAGNITSKY ACT, UP UNTIL WE RECENTLY FELT WIFE OF PUTIN'S MINISTER OF DEFENSE WAS STILL LIVING IN HER APARTMENT IN PARIS.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

SO WE SEE THAT THERE IS STILL TOO MANY HOLES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN THE SANCTIONS MECHANISM.

THEY'RE NOT EFFECTIVE ENOUGH AND REALLY PUSHING AGAINST PUTIN'S WAR MACHINE.

AGAINST PUTIN'S WAR ECONOMY .

BECAUSE TO ME THE GOAL THE SANCTIONS TO BE MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT AND AN IDEAL, IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE PUTIN REGIME TO CONTINUE CONDUCTING THIS WAR .2 THE REST OF THE WORLD WHICH WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO LINE UP AGAINST RUSSIA, MEANING INDIA, CHINA, IRAN .

IS THERE SOME OTHER MECHANISM THAT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN SANCTIONS?

>> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE SUPPORTING UKRAINE.

VLADIMIR PUTIN AND THE PUTIN REGIME CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO EMERGE VICTORIOUS FROM THIS CRIMINAL WAR OF AGGRESSION THAT INITIATED.

CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO EMERGE VICTORIOUS.

THIS WAR HAS TO END IN A WAY THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO UKRAINE.

THAT IS NOT HUMILIATING FOR UKRAINE.

IN WHICH UKRAINE EMERGES WITH GUARANTEES AND STATUSES AS SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT AND DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY.

I UNDERSTAND THE FATIGUE.

THIS WAR HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS.

I UNDERSTAND THE FATIGUE BUT THOSE PEOPLE ARE ADVOCATING FOR SOME SORT OF A SHORT-TERM DEAL WITH UKRAINE.

THEY ARE ADVOCATING FOR PEACE, JUST PUSH THE PROGRAM DOWN THE LINE AND IN FACT, WE HAVE THE APPEASEMENT ONLY MAKES THE AGGRESSOR MORE AGGRESSIVE.

AND SO CONTINUING TO SUPPORT UKRAINE AND RESISTING THESE CALLS TO CUT DEALS WITH PUTIN IS VERY IMPORTANT.

NUMBER TWO IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE WEST , DEMOCRATIC NATIONS OF THE WORLD TO CONTINUE SPEAKING , MESSAGING, COMMUNICATING WITH RUSSIAN SOCIETY.

BECAUSE AGAIN, NOT ALL RUSSIANS SUPPORT PUTIN AND THE WAR.

THERE ARE MANY WHO DON'T.

AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THOSE PRO-DEMOCRACY AND ANTIWAR RUSSIANS ARE SEEN BY THE WESTERN WAR WORLD AS ALLIES IN THE STRUGGLE.

PROPAGANDA IS TRYING TO PRESENT, THIS IS NOT A BETWEEN THE CONNECTIVE WEST, AS THEY SAY, AND RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

NOT AT ALL, THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN CIVILIZATION AND BARBARISM THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND TYRANNY AND MANY RUSSIANS ARE ALLIES OF US IN THIS WAR.

AND THE SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD AND THIS SHOULD BE EDUCATED BY THE WESTERN WORLD.

THERE HAVE TO BE WAYS TO MESSAGE FOR FREE WORLD MESSAGE AND COMMUNICATE FOR THE PEOPLE OF RUSSIA, TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT THIS WAR IS NOT FOR THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

THE PUTIN DICTATORSHIP AND THAT THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR A DIFFERENT CHANGE , DEMOCRATIC RUSSIA AND INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU, I'M SURE YOU HAVE CONTACTED PEOPLE IN RUSSIA.

SO WHAT EXTENT IS THERE AND IS IT BIG ENOUGH THAT IT'S GOING TO HAVE ANY IMPACT?

>> THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN RUSSIA WHO OPPOSE HIS REGIME AND THIS WAR.

I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU PERCENTAGE NUMBERS BECAUSE IN A TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIP IT IS MEANINGLESS TO TALK ABOUT , IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO JUDGE THE TRUE STATE OF PUBLIC OPINION IN THE COUNTRY THAT IMPRISONED YOU FOR EXPRESSING IT.

WHAT IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO ME IS THAT SOMETIMES FROM TIME TO TIME WE GET WHAT I WOULD CALL GLIMPSES OF THE REALITY.

GLIMPSES INTO HOW MANY RUSSIANS ACTUALLY FEEL ABOUT PUTIN AND ABOUT THIS WAR.

ONE OF THESE GLIMPSES CAME IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR WHEN, YOU KNOW, AMID THE STAGED START OF OUR SO-CALLED PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WHEN IT WAS PUTIN AND A COUPLE OF HAND PICKED CLOWNS ON THE BALLOT, THERE WAS ONE CANDIDATE, A LAWYER BY THE NAME OF BORIS WHO NOW SAID HE WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA ON AN ANTIWAR PLATFORM.

YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE THE PUBLIC RESPONSE.

WAS UNIMAGINABLE.

SUDDENLY ALL OVER RUSSIA IN LARGE CITIES AND SMALL TOWNS, THERE WERE THESE LONG LINES, HOURS LONG LINES FORMED OF PEOPLE GOING TO SIGN PETITIONS .

BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY COLLECT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SIGNATURES TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

NOMINATING PETITIONS TO GET THIS ANTIWAR CANDIDATE ON THE BALLOT AND MOST OF THOSE WERE ABOUT THOSE LINES AND HOW IMPORTANT PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT THE PUTIN TROPICANA TRIES TO CREATE THIS IMAGE THAT THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY IS A MONOLITH.

ALL RUSSIANS SUPPORT PUTIN, ALL RUSSIANS SUPPORT THE WAR AND OF COURSE THAT IS A LIE AND PEOPLE KNOW THIS IS A LIVE.

BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SEE VISIBLY BECAUSE THESE LONG LINES OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN RIG ELECTION RESULTS BUT YOU CANNOT RIG THESE PHOTOS OF THESE LONG LONG LINES OF PEOPLE AND I REMEMBER, NEEDLESS TO SAY THAT CANDIDATE WAS NOT ALLOWED ON THE BALLOT.

PEOPLE TO SEE THAT THEY ARE NOT ALONE.

THIS WAS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS.

I WILL NEVER FORGET THE LETTER I RECEIVED FROM A YOUNG WOMAN IN THE BLACK SEA TOWN SOUTH OF RUSSIA AND SHE DESCRIBED HOW SHE WAITED IN THE LINE OF LIKE- MINDED PEOPLE AND YOUNG PEOPLE FOR TWO OR THREE HOURS TO PETITION FOR THE ANTIWAR CANDIDATE AND AT THE END OF THE LETTER SHE WROTE I HAVE NEVER REALIZED HOW ANY OF US THERE ARE.

I WANT THE FREE WORLD, I WANT THE WEST TO SEE AND HEAR THAT RUSSIA, NOT THE RUSSIA OF MURDERERS AND WAR CRIMINALS SITTING IN THE KREMLIN BUT THE RUSSIA OF GOOD, DECENT, KINDHEARTED PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THIS DICTATORSHIP, WHO OPPOSE THIS WAR BECAUSE WE ARE RUSSIANS, TOO AND THERE AREN'T MANY OF US.

>> WE OFTEN THINK THAT AUTHORITARIANS COME TO POWER THROUGH FORCE .

BUT A LOT OF TIMES, INCLUDING TO SOME EXTENT IN RUSSIA, IT HAPPENS TO DEMOCRACY AND WE ARE KIND OF SEEING AROUND THE WORLD PERHAPS SOME YEARNING FOR STRONGER LEADERS FOR NATIONALISM.

WE LOOK AT THE SUPPORT FOR ORBAN IN HUNGARY AND OTHER PLACES.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO DEMOCRACY?

>> WELL, THERE ARE ALWAYS THESE WEIGHTS, RIGHT?

THESE WAVES, THE PENDULUM, BACK AND FORTH.

BUT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND THE BIG PICTURE WILL TELL US NOT AT ALL.

THAT WHATEVER THE SHORT-TERM CHALLENGE IS OR PROBLEMS, NOT EVEN THREATS , THAT THE WORLD AS A WHOLE MAY ENCOUNTER.

THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE GENERAL DIRECTION IS ALWAYS TOWARDS PRO-DEMOCRACY.

IF WE LOOK AT THE MAP OF EUROPE, LET'S SAY 35 YEARS AGO, THAT IS NOTHING BY HISTORICAL STATUS.

WE WILL SEE THAT HALF OF THE EUROPEAN CONTINENT WAS SOME SORT OF AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES.

TODAY, YOU WILL PROBABLY SEE TWO DICTATORSHIPS LEFT.

THAT IS RUSSIA AND BELARUS.

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT WE WILL HAVE A STABLE FUTURE WHEN EUROPE IS DICTATORSHIP FREE.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THESE CHALLENGES.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY THIS IS NOT SERIOUS, IT IS.

AND IT IS VERY WORRYING TO SEE THESE TRENDS IN DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.

I THINK JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, THERE WAS A SERIES OF REGIONAL ELECTIONS IN GERMANY, FOR EXAMPLE .

BUT WERE WON , AT LEAST WITH SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS WAS ACHIEVED BY FAR RIGHT PARTIES.

STILL SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS.

AND THESE ARE WORRYING TRENDS THAT THE PEOPLE SHOULD THINK ABOUT.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO A SIGN OF THAT OF THE BIG PICTURE.

THE BIG PICTURE BELONGS TO FREEDOM.

THE FUTURE LONGS TO DEMOCRACY.

OPPRESSIVE REGIMES.

ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE IN RUSSIA TODAY WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN AND I HAVE NO DOUBT IN THE VERY FORESEEABLE FUTURE WE WILL SEE THE DEMISE.

>> VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA , THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, THE ENTERTAINMENT LAW AS APPLIED TO ONE OF ITS GREATEST.

QUINCY JONES HAS DIED AT THE AGE OF 91.

HIS CAREER SPANNING SEVEN DECADES KNOWN AS A COMPOSER, CONDUCTOR, AND THE PRODUCER OF SOME OF THE WORLD'S TOP-SELLING ALBUMS LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON'S THRILLER.

>> HE WORKED WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYONE FROM FRANK SINATRA TO DOMINATED THE MUSIC INDUSTRY FOR DECADES.

IN 1985 HE CALLED ON MICHAEL JACKSON, LIONEL RICHIE, AND A HOST OF OTHER STARS FOR A CHARITY SINGLE, WE ARE THE WORLD WHILE SUCCESSFULLY READING IN THE EGOS OF SOME OF THE BIGGEST SINGERS OF ALL TIME FOR THE COURSE OF AFRICAN FAMINE RELIEF.

AND WE WANT TO LEAVE YOU NOW WITH THAT SONG, PRODUCED AND CONDUCTED BY THE ONE AND ONLY QUINCY JONES.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

>>> ON IMPORTING COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WE ARE, SYLVIA A AND SIMON B PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT BY ANTISEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS.

MARK J BLACKNER.

THE FILM AND AND D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SEATON J MELVIN.

THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

COUP AND PATRICIA YOU AND, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.