November 18, 2024

♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> MISSILES WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

>> UKRAINE GETS THE GREEN LIGHT, LONG-RANGE U.S. MISSILES CAN BE USED TO STRIKE INSIDE RUSSIA.

WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>>> THEN -- >> WE FACE AN URGENT QUESTION.

DO WE SECURE SUSTAINABLE PROSPERITY FOR OUR COUNTRIES OR DO WE CONDEMN OUR MOST VULNERABLE TO UNIMAGINABLE CLIMATE DISASTERS.

>> THE MESSAGE FROM COP29, IS ANYONE LISTENING?

WE'LL HAVE THE LATEST IN THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE.

>>> PLUS -- >> IF I'M DYING, WILL YOU HELP ME?

>> I WAS GOING TO GIVE BIRTH TO A CHILD THAT WASN'T GOING TO LIVE.

>> WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS?

>> "THE A WORD," A JOURNALIST JOINS ME WITH DISPATCHES ACROSS AMERICA.

>>> AND -- >> THE GREAT RESPONSIBILITY WAS TO INTERROGATE THE UNIVERSE AND ASK EVERY QUESTION.

>> WE SPEAK TO KEN AND SARAH BURNS ABOUT BRINGING LEONARDO DA VINCI TO LIFE.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M IN NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

THE STAKES OF UKRAINE HAVE BEEN AGAIN HIT BARE.

A RUSSIA MISSILE HIT ODESSA TODAY, CHILDREN AMONG THE INJURED.

THE NEWS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL ALLOW THE USE OF LONG-RANGE AMERICAN WEAPONS INSIDE RUSSIA WILL SEEM TITLE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST RAISED THE STAKES IN THE WAR.

WILL THE MISSILES MAKE ANY REAL DIFFERENCE?

WE'LL ASK OUR GUEST, A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE RUSSIA AND EURASIAN PROGRAM.

ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

FIRST, YOUR REACTION TO PRESIDENT BIDEN FINALLY GREEN LIGHTING THE USE OF LONG-RANGE ATTACK MISSILES.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MILITARY EXPERTS HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR.

GOES WITHOUT SAYING, THE UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN MAKING THE SAME ASK.

HOW SIGNIFICANT IS THIS DEVELOP?

>> I THINK IT'S A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT AND A BIT OVERDUE.

THEY WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE, EVERY SUCCESSFUL STRIKE DOES, BUT I THINK THE MAXIMUM EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE TYPE OF SYSTEMS IS PROBABLY PAST.

THE RUSSIANS HAVE ALREADY ADAPTED WITH ELECTRONIC WARFARE OR JAMMING AND AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

BUT I DO THINK WILL ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE PRESSURE IN THE PROBLEMATIC PARTS OF THE FRONT.

JUST DEPENDS HOW MANY MISSILES THEY'RE GIVEN.

>> HOW MUCH DOES IT DEPEND ON THE QUANTITY OF MISSILES?

IS THIS MORE SYMBOLIC GESTURE OR SOMETHING YOU COULD SEE INROADS MADE, SPECIFICALLY IN KURSK WHERE THE U.S. IS LIMITING THE USE OF WEAPONS.

RUSSIA HAS BEEN GAINING GROUND IN THE BATTLE THERE.

SINCE THE LAST FEW WEEKS, WE KNOW THAT NORTH KOREAN FORCES HAVE JOINED RUSSIAN FORCES IN KURSK.

DO YOU SEE THIS AS A GAME CHANGER TO GIVE UKRAINE THE ABILITY TO GAIN THE UPPER HAND IN THE BATTLE?

>> I THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE BENEFITS FOR KURSK.

RUSSIA WAS THE FIRST ONE TO ESCALATE THAT CONFLICT BY INTRODUCING COMBATANTS FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY.

WHAT THEY CAN DO IN THAT REGION IS TAKE PRESSURE OFF AN INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT PROPOSITION FOR UKRAINIAN FORCES.

THEY CAN TARGET ARTILLERY OR ROCKET DEPOTS SUCCESSFULLY.

BUT THE RUSSIANS HAVE MOVED THEIR FIGHTER JETS WELL BEYOND THE RANGE OF ATTACKEMS.

I THINK IT WILL ALLOW THE UKRAINIANS TO TAKE PRESSURE OFF THE RUSSIAN ON THE GROUND COUNTEROFFENSIVE RIGHT NOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THE NUMBERS SUPPLIED TO THE UKRAINIANS IS ENOUGH TO GIVE THEM FULL BREATHING SPACE IN KURSK.

>> WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THE U.S. HAS ALLOWED THE HUES OF HEIMAR MISSILES BY UKRAINE INSIDE RUSSIA.

EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO WEAPONS SYSTEMS AND WHY IT WAS ATTACKEMS SPECIFICALLY THAT UKRAINE WAS PRESSING FOR.

>> SURE, THE CHANGE IS A CHANGE OF RANGE.

PREVIOUSLY THEY'VE BEEN ALLOWED TO SHOOT THE SHORTER-RANGE WEAPONS INTO RUSSIA AND THE FRONT LINES.

THAT'S A RANGE OF 50 KILOMETERS OR SO.

THIS NEW RANGE IS OUT TO AROUND 190 MILES.

GIVES THEM THE ABILITY TO LOOK FURTHER INTO RUSSIA AND TARGET THINGS PREVIOUSLY OUT OF RANGE.

AND THE HEIMARS LAUNCHERS CAN BE PULLED BACK FURTHER FROM THE FRONT LINES TO HELP THEM SURVIVE.

THE RUSSIANS ARE QUITE SUCCESSFUL TARGETING HIGH VALUE ASSETS AND TRYING TO STRIKE THEM.

THERE'S TWO BENEFITS HERE.

FLIP SIDE IS THIS WEAPONS FAMILY HAS BEEN IN UKRAINE NOW FOR A YEAR AND THE RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TWEAK THEIR AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS AND JAMMING SYSTEMS, AND MANY WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH TOLD US THE JAMMING IS QUITE EFFECTIVE.

THIS IS NOT A GAME CHANGER PER SE, BUT IT'S ALLEVIATING SOME PRESSURE.

>> GIVE US MORE INSIGHT INTO YOUR VISIT TO UKRAINE.

YOU WERE THERE AT THE END OF OCTOBER WITH OTHER MILITARY ANALYSTS AND EXPERTS SPEAKING TO OFFICIALS IN UKRAINE.

TELL US ABOUT SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS.

IN A SENSE, THE FACT THEY'RE HAVING TO FIGHT THIS BATTLE WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND THEIR BACK WITH LIMITED USE OF CAPABLE WEAPONRY GIVEN THEIR OPPONENT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME RESTRICTIONS IS IN FACT AS YOU NOTED BRINGING THIS MILITARY FROM -- AND SOLDIERS FROM A THIRD PARTY.

>> IT'S TRUE.

IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY TIME TO MEET WITH THEM.

WE MET WITH OFFICIALS IN KYIV AND WENT FORWARD TO PARTS OF THE FRONT LINE TO MEET WITH DIFFERENT GROUPS THERE.

SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THEY ARTICULATED TO US WAS A MANPOWER CHALLENGE.

THERE ARE MANY UNITS NOT FILLED TO THEIR FULL CAPACITY.

THERE'S SOME FORCE EMPLOYMENT ISSUES I THINK IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY AT DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE FRONT.

KUBYANSK IS UNDER STRAIN AND OTHER AREAS ARE UNDER STRAIN FROM RUSSIAN ATTACKS RIGHT NOW.

THERE WAS A DEGREE OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF WESTERN SUPPORT AT THE TIME.

BUT I FOUND THEY ARE INCREDIBLY INNOVATIVE AND RESOURCEFUL.

AND I KNOW THEY'LL USE THIS EXPANDED CAPABILITY TO THE BEST OF THEIR CAPABILITIES.

THEY'LL JUST BE RUNNING UP AGAINST RUSSIAN COUNTERMEASURES TO TRY TO REDUCE THE IMPACT OF THE EXPANDED STRENGTH.

ALL IN ALL AN EXPERIENCE.

>> MOMENTUM HAS NOT BEEN ON UKRAINE'S SIDE FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS OR SO.

RUSSIA HAS BEEN MAKING GROUND STEADILY OVER THE SUMMER AND UKRAINE HAS BEEN LOSING POSITIONING IN THE EAST, IN THE AREA.

>> THE RUSSIANS HAVE ADAPTED THEIR TACTICS A LITTLE BIT AND INSTEAD OF RUSHING HEAD-ON AT A CITY OR OBJECTIVE, THEY TRY TO ENCIRCLE IT AND FLANK IT, DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS.

MULTIPLE SMALL ATTACKS, SOMETIMES INTERSPERSED WITH ARMOR TO EXHAUST THEM AND WEAR THEM DOWN.

THIS STRATEGY IS EFFECTIVE ON PARTS OF THE FRONT LINE.

THE RUSSIANS ARE ABLE TO FIND WEAK SEAMS.

THEY'RE PUSHING SOUTH NOW.

THE FEAR OR CONCERN SOME OF US HAVE LOOKING AT THAT, IF THEY'RE ABLE TO ENCIRCLE THAT CITY, IT OPENS UP THE SOUTH PART OF DONYEST AND POSSIBLY ZAPORIZHZHIA AS WELL.

WE'RE TRACKING IT CLOSELY.

>> ONE THING WORTH NOTING, NOW THAT THE U.S. HAS GREENLIT THE USE OF ATTACKEMS, CAN WE SEE THE SAME FROM EUROPEAN ALLIES, PARTICULARLY THE BRITS AND GERMANS, WILL THEY ALLOW FOR THE USE OF THEIR LONG-RANGE WEAPON SYSTEMS?

>> IT CERTAINLY DOES PAVE THE WAY AND OPEN UP OPPORTUNITIES TO SAY THE AMERICANS ARE DOING IT, WE'RE PART OF IT AS WELL.

I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE GERMANS ON THAT FRONT, BUT I WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT SCALP AND STORM SHADOW MIGHT BE ANOTHER OPTION.

THE MORE LAUNCHERS AND MORE MISSILES, MORE LIKELY SOME OF THESE WILL GET THROUGH RUSSIAN JAMMING AND AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

>> THE MILITARY OFFICIALS, UKRAINIANS YOU MET WITH, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT POLITICIANS BUT I'M SURE THEY'RE ABSORBING AND HAVING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE BATTLE LOOKS LIKE FOR THEM, THE LANDSCAPE GOING FORWARD UNDER A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT WERE THEY ABLE TO SHARE WITH YOU ABOUT ANY CONCERNS THEY HAVE?

BUT ALSO WHAT WE KEEP REPORTING, PERHAPS THIS IS JUST A WAY OF HAVING A BETTER FACE PUBLICLY FROM THE UKRAINIANS, BUT THERE IS SOME COMFORT KNOWING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, LOOKS LIKE A RESOLUTION COULD COME SOONER IN THE WAR IN A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> YEAH.

WE WERE THERE A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION TOOK PLACE.

BUT BASICALLY WHAT WAS CONVEYED TO US, THEY SEEK CLARITY, A CHANGE TO SUPPORT, A DIMINISHMENT OR CHANGE IN WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE TO THEM, THEY JUST WANT CLARITY AND HAVE IT VOICED IN CLEAR TERMS.

OF COURSE THEY WANT THE BEST DEAL POSSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES.

THEY KNOW THE STAKES OF THIS IF RUSSIA IS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO RELOAD AND TRY AGAIN IN THREE OR FOUR YEARS.

RUSSIA IS ALSO WORKING HARD RIGHT NOW TO MAKE SURE IT SETS THE TERMS AS BEST AS IT CAN FOR ITSELF RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT INCLUDES TRYING TO TAKE THE KURSK OFF THE TABLE BY PUSHING UKRAINIAN FORCES OUT BEFORE THE 20th OF JANUARY.

>> ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> NO LONGER FIT FOR PURPOSE.

THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF A GROUP OF PROMINENT GLOBAL CLIMATE LEADERS, TALKING ABOUT COP, THE U.N.'S CLIMATE CONFERENCE MEANT TO TACKLE THE PRESSING ISSUE.

THAT LANGUAGE WAS EVENTUALLY REMOVE ADDS THE SUMMIT ENTERS THE SECOND WEEK IN BAKU.

THE DIRECTOR OF POTSDAM INSTITUTE FOR CLIMATE RESEARCH WHERE HE PROVIDES ADVICE FOR POLICY DECISION MAKERS.

HE JOINS US FROM POTSDAM IN GERMANY.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THE MOOD OF COP GIVEN THE RAMIFICATIONS GLOBALLY BUT SPECIFICALLY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM THE NUMBER OF ELECTIONS WE'VE HAD?

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, SO EVEN BEFORE THE ELECTIONS IN THE U.S., OUR EXPECTATIONS ON COP29 IN BAKU WERE LIMITED.

WE HAVE NOT EXPECTED LARGE OUTCOMES.

THE WHOLE DISCUSSION ON FINANCE HAS NOT BEEN VERY WELL PREPARED, AND THEN WITH THE U.S.

ELECTIONS AND FURTHERMORE, THE INSTABILITY IN THE GERMAN POLITICAL LANDSCAPE, AND THEN ALSO WITH ARGENTINA SIGNALING QUESTIONING THEIR ENGAGEMENT.

OF COURSE THIS CREATES DEEP, DEEP CONCERN ON THE ABILITY OF THE COP THIS YEAR TO DELIVER NECESSARY DECISIONS ON FINANCE.

>> AND THE FOCUS OF THIS YEAR'S COP IS FINANCING, SPECIFICALLY SOME OF THE UNDERDEVELOPED AND POOR NATIONS AS THEY'RE ADJUSTING TO CLIMATE CHANGE AS WELL.

WHERE DOES THAT MISSION EVEN STAND AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE SIGNING OF THE LEGALLY BINDING GLOBAL PARIS AGREEMENT THAT ALL COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD INCLUDING THE U.S.

SIGNED ON TO, WE HAVE NOW ALMOST TEN YEARS OF LACK OF PROGRESS.

GLOBAL EMISSIONS ARE INCREASING, WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF A CLIMATE CRISIS HITTING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO LEVELS FACING UNMANAGEABLE HEAT, DISEASE, FLOODS, DROUGHTS, FOOD INSECURITY.

AND ALL OF THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE COMPENSATED THROUGH LOSS AND DAMAGE, A COST RISING EXPONENTIALLY.

ONLY THING WE HAVE FROM THE PARIS AGREEMENT IS THE GREEN CLIMATE FUND WITH $100 BILLION U.S.

PER YEAR AS PROMISED FUNDING THAT'S BARELY BEEN FILLED.

IT'S MANY MAGNITUDES LOWER THAN IS REQUIRED TO HELP DEVELOPING COUNTRIES PHASE OUT OIL, COAL AND GAS, AND TO ADAPT AND COMPENSATE FOR DAMAGE.

WE'RE IN A DIRE SITUATION.

EVERY YEAR WE FAIL TO REDUCE EMISSIONS, COSTS WILL INCREASE.

>> YOU HAVE SIGNED AN OPEN LETTER, AS WE NOTED IN THE INTRODUCTION, WITH PROMINENT GLOBAL LEADERS THAT SAYS THE U.N.

CLIMATE PROCESS NEEDS A FUNDAMENTAL OVERHAUL.

I'LL QUOTE.

COPs HAVE DELIVERED US WITH THE POLICIES TO ACHIEVE THIS, BUT CAN'T DELIVER AT THE SPEED AND SCALE ESSENTIAL TO SECURE A SAFE CLIMATE LANDING FOR HUMANITY.

THAT'S WHAT COMPELS OUR CALL FOR A FUNDAMENTAL OVERALL OF THE COP.

WHAT SHOULD IT LOOK LIKE?

>> TO BEGIN WITH, URGENCY IS WELL RECOGNIZED.

THE WORLD GATHERED ALREADY IN 2009 IN COPENHAGEN TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

SIX YEARS LATER, THE WORLD GATHERED AGAIN, 2015 IN PARIS, AND FINALLY WE GOT THE PARIS AGREEMENT.

THAT WAS THE MOMENT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO SOLVE ONCE AND FOR ALL THE GLOBAL CLIMATE CRISIS WE CAUSED FROM OUR FOSSIL FUEL BURNING AND DEGRADATION OF NATURE.

TEN YEARS LATER, WE MEET IN BAKU AND HAVE STILL NOT MADE PROGRESS.

OF COURSE THE URGENCY IS RIGHT HERE.

WE HAVE TO REDUCE GLOBAL EMISSIONS 7.5% PER YEAR.

WE HAVE TO REMOVE 3 BILLION TONS OF CARBON DIOXIDE FROM THE GLOBAL ECONOMY NEXT YEAR.

THIS IS EXPONENTIAL AND TRANSFORMATIVE AND IT'S AN UNMANAGEABLE CHALLENGE.

WE CAN'T GO ON NEGOTIATING PROMISES AND COMMITMENTS WE'RE NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO.

WE'RE SUGGESTING TO SHIFT GEARS, IT'S TIME TO CELEBRATE.

WE HAVE ALL THE LEGAL COMPONENTS WE NEED TO DELIVER AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT PERFECT BUT WE HAVE WHAT WE NEED.

1.5 DEGREES CELSIUS AS THE LIMIT, FINANCE IN PLACE, THE ARTICLE SIX ON CARBON TRADING, EVEN SUPPORTED BY THE DUBAI STATEMENT OF TRANSITIONING AWAY FROM OIL, COAL AND GAS AND UPDATE NATIONAL PLANS.

NOW WE NEED TO SHIFT GEARS, HAVE MORE FREQUENT MEETINGS, ALL INCLUSIVE, ALL STAKEHOLDERS ON BOARD, INCLUDING INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES TO BE PART OF THE REPORTING ON PROGRESS TO DELIVER WHAT WE'VE AGREED UPON.

>> TALK ABOUT THE U.S.

COMMITMENT SPECIFICALLY UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HIS LEGACY ON THIS FRONT.

HISTORY WAS MADE WITH HIS INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, INVESTING HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN CLEAN CLIMATE POLICY.

HE SPOKE ABOUT HIS LEGACY AT THE AMAZON -- FROM THE AMAZON OVER THE WEEKEND.

LET'S PLAY SOME SOUND.

>> IT'S NO SECRET, I'M LEAVING OFFENSE IN JANUARY, I WILL HAVE -- I WILL LEAVE MY SUCCESSOR AND COUNTRY IN A STRONG FOUNDATION TO BUILD ON IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO.

IT'S TRUE SOME MAY SEEK TO DENY OR DELAY THE CLEAN ENERGY REVOLUTION THAT'S UNDER WAY IN AMERICA.

BUT NOBODY, NOBODY CAN REVERSE IT.

NOBODY.

>> IS HE RIGHT?

DID HIS LEGACY PUT IN PLACE IRREVERSIBLE CLIMATE CHANGE LEGISLATION, EVEN IF ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION WHO DOESN'T SHARE THE SAME POLICY VIEWS ATTEMPTS IT CAN'T WALK BACK?

>> TO BEGIN WITH, IT'S NOT UP TO U.S. TO DECIDE.

THE WORLD HAS ALREADY STARTED THAT.

WE'RE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THE FOSSIL FUEL DRIVEN WORLD ECONOMY.

WE'RE MOVING FROM WHAT HAS POWERED THE GLOBAL ECONOMY FOR 150 YEARS -- COAL, OIL, AND GAS -- INTO A MORE SECURITY, HEALTHIER AND COMPETITIVE GREEN RENEWABLE ENERGY FUTURE.

THAT'S WELL UNDERSTOOD.

TECHNOLOGY ADVANCEMENTS, COMPETITIVENESS, MORE ADVANCED JOBS OF TOMORROW.

PRESIDENT BIDEN, THE FIRST DAY IN OFFICE, REJOINED THE U.S.

IN THE PARIS CLIMATE AGREEMENT AND THE WHOLE CLIMATE NEGOTIATION.

THAT WAS A REAL ACCOMPLISHMENT, AND THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT WHICH IS INTERESTINGLY BENEFITTING TO THE LARGEST EXTENT THE REPUBLICAN STATES IN THE U.S. IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST INVESTMENT PROGRAM FOR GREEN TECHNOLOGY.

SO THERE IS SUPPORT FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN'S LEADERSHIP.

BUT ALSO HE APPOINTED A CLIMATE ENVOY, FIRST TIME IN THE U.S. HISTORY, JOHN KERRY, WHO HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS DIPLOMAT, CLIMATE DIPLOMAT IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE U.S. AND CHINA ON PUSHING THE CLIMATE AGENDA.

WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE DUBAI AGREEMENT LAST YEAR OF STARTING THE TRANSITIONING AWAY FROM COAL, OIL AND GAS WITHOUT THAT.

>> WHEN YOU HEAR THE INCOMING PRESIDENT OF ONE OF THE TWO LARGEST CARBON EMITTERS IN THE WORLD, PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP, SAY HIS TERM IS ALL ABOUT DRILL, BABY DRILL IN TERMS OF ENERGY POLICY, YOUR REACTION IS WHAT?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY IT'S A DISASTER AND VIOLATES NOT ONLY WHAT SCIENCE SAYS BUT WHAT BILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM AND WHAT WE'VE AGREED UPON IN THE PARIS CLIMATE AGREEMENT.

WHAT ALSO WORRIES ME, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY AND U.S. COMPETITIVENESS?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR U.S. BUSINESS?

THIS MEANS THAT THE U.S. WILL GO BACKWARDS INTO THE FUTURE RATHER THAN MOVE ALONG THE TECHNOLOGICAL PATH WITH LARGER PARTS OF SOUTHEAST ASIA, THE EUROPEAN UNION IS NOW ACCELERATING ALONG.

THEREFORE IT IS ALSO A DOUBLE MISTAKE FROM THE U.S.

LEADERSHIP.

>> ARE YOU PREPARING FOR TRUMP TO TAKE THE U.S. OUT AGAIN OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR.

NOT ONLY THAT, TRUMP'S LACK OF CLIMATE LEADERSHIP LEADS TO SPILLOVER EFFECTS WHICH MAY AFFECT OTHER MORE POPULIST GOVERNMENTS IN THE WORLD.

SEE WHAT HAPPENED WITH MALAY AND ARGENTINA ALREADY.

THIS IS A REAL WORRY.

THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THE GLOBAL CLIMATE CRISIS IS COLLECTIVE ACTION WHERE WE TRUST EACH OTHER AND WORK TOGETHER AS ONE GLOBAL COMMUNITY.

THE U.S. IS A LEADING NATION, THE LEADING NATION IN THESE TERMS, WE NEED STRONG CLIMATE LEADERSHIP FROM THE U.S. TO HAVE A CHANCE OF REALLY GETTING ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF ACCELERATING THE PHASE OUT OF FOSSIL FUELS.

>> APPRECIATE YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO JOIN US TODAY.

THANK YOU.

>>> NOW MANY BELIEVED THAT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS WOULD BE THE DEFINING ISSUE IN THE U.S. ELECTION.

IT PROVED NOT TO BE THE CASE.

THE ISSUE TOP FOR VOTERS WAS THE ECONOMY.

AND THE STARK REALITIES OF POST ROE AMERICA ARE BEING FELT.

IN TEXAS, A DRAMATIC RISE IN PREGNANT WOMEN DYING AFTER THE ABORTION BAN WENT INTO EFFECT.

INFANT MORTALITY INCREASED FOLLOWING THE DECISION.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY TAKES AN UNFLINCHING LOOK AT THE LIVES IMPACTED.

HERE'S A PREVIEW.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT HISTORIC DECISIONS IN MODERN TIMES.

>> IT MEANT THE DEATH OF THE WHOLE ARCHITECTURE AND EDIFICE OF WOMEN'S HEALTH CARE.

>> AMERICA DOESN'T WANT MORE ABORTIONS.

AMERICA WANTS LESS ABORTIONS.

>> THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING WHEN THEY PASSED THESE LAWS.

>> DON'T HURT YOUR CHILD.

>> MOTHER, FATHER, GRANDFATHER, WHOEVER, WE WANT THEM CHARGED WITH MURDER.

>> THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN WAR IS HOLY WAR.

>> "THE A WORD" PRODUCED BY A CORRESPONDENT IN THE UK.

SHE JOINS ME NOW.

IT'S A POWERFUL DOCUMENTARY, ONE FILMED PRIOR TO THE U.S. ELECTION.

FIRST, TELL US WHAT LET YOU TO ULTIMATELY MAKE THIS FILM.

AND NOW WE'VE SEEN THE RESULTS OF THE U.S. ELECTION, MAYBE JUST YOUR THOUGHTS AS A JOURNALIST ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AS YOU SAID, AHEAD OF THE ELECTIONS WE REALLY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A DEFINING VOTER ISSUE THAT MIGHT FLIP CERTAIN STATES.

AS I WAS LOOKING INTO THIS, I LOOKED AT MANY DIFFERENT SUBJECTS TO EXPLORE, BUT THE ABORTION BANS HAD JUST HAPPENED COMPARATIVELY RECENTLY AND I REALIZED HOW MUCH IT WAS IMPACTING EVERYTHING ACROSS THE BOARD.

I STARTED THE JOURNEY WITH A CERTAIN LEVEL OF NAIVETY.

I THOUGHT ABOUT A PARTICULAR ITERATION OF ABORTION.

I LEARNED IT'S INTEGRAL TO MATERNAL HEALTH CARE, IT WAS IMPACTING HEALTH CARE DESERTS IN AMERICA, WOMEN WERE DYING, INFANT MORTALITY RATES WERE RISING AND IT HAD BECOME A HUGELY IMPORTANT ISSUE LEADING UP TO THE ELECTIONS.

FOR ME IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE JOURNEY TO LEARN WHAT WAS REALLY HAPPENING.

AND I SPOKE TO THOSE WOMEN LIVING THIS EVERY SINGLE DAY, WHO NEARLY DIED FROM THESE ABORTIONS.

OB-GYNS FACING POSSIBLY 15 YEARS IN JAIL, AND THE ANTIABORTION MOVEMENT, WHAT THEY WANTED.

IT WAS A LEARNING CURVE AND INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE TO BE ALLOWED INTO THE LIVES OF THESE PEOPLE.

>> AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, AND EVEN AS JOURNALISTS, WE COVERED THE MIDTERMS IN 2022, AND YOU SAW WHAT A MAJOR ROLE THIS ISSUE HAD IN TURNOUT.

IT'S NO SURPRISE THAT MANY WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THE SAME IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IN 2024.

BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FILM ITSELF.

YOU START AT AN ABORTION CLINIC IN BRISTOL, VIRGINIA, REALLY AT THE BORDER WITH TENNESSEE, WHERE ABORTIONS -- THERE'S A NEAR COMPLETE BAN ON ABORTIONS IN TENNESSEE.

NOT THE CASE IN VIRGINIA.

OUTSIDE, YOU SEE AS PROTESTERS THERE ARE BASICALLY HOUNDING ANY WOMEN MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO COME INTO THE PARKING LOT.

LET'S PLAY A CLIP FOR VIEWERS SO THEY GET A SENSE OF WHAT THEY ENCOUNTER.

>> WHERE ELSE IN MEDICAL FIELD DO YOU NOT KNOW YOU'RE SAFE COMING TO THE DOCTORS.

GOOD MORNING, MAY I HELP YOU?

>> DEMAND IS SO GREAT, THEY'RE OPENING ON EVENINGS AND WEEKENDS, AND ONLY MADE THEM MORE OF A TARGET FOR THE ANTIABORTION MOVEMENT.

>> YOU GIVE BIRTH TO THAT CHILD AND IF IT DIES IN YOUR ARMS, IT'S IN THE ARMS OF A LOVING MOTHER, NOT RIPPED TO PIECES AND THROWN AWAY LIKE COMMON GARBAGE.

>> WE'RE BEGGING YOU NOT TO MURDER YOUR CHILD.

>> HAS ANYONE GIVEN YOU -- OVER THIS.

>> ANYONE INVOLVED IN THE MURDER OF THE CHILD, MOTHER, FATHER, GRANDFATHER, WHOEVER, WE WANT THEM CHARGED WITH MURDER.

>> YOU CAN UNDERSTAND HOW ANY WOMEN COMING IN FOR CARE WOULD BE INTIMIDATED BY THE NUMBER OF PROTESTERS WHO DRESS SIMILARLY TO THE EMPLOYEES AT THE FACILITY THEMSELVES WHO DESCRIBE THEMSELVES AS TRYING TO BE WELCOMING AS POSSIBLE AS WALMART GREETERS, I BELIEVE ONE DESCRIBED THEMSELF.

TALK ABOUT YOUR VIEWS THERE.

>> AS SOON AS I DROVE UP, THE PROTESTERS ASSUMED I WAS COMING FOR AN ABORTION.

SOMEONE THREW THEMSELVES ON MY CAR AND I WAS WORRIED I WOULD INJURY SOMEONE.

FIRST THEY TRIED TO TALK ABOUT AN ABORTION REVERSAL PILL, LARGELY UNPROVEN AND CONDEMNED BY MANY MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS IN THE U.S. AND THEY DRESS SIMILARLY TO THE CLINIC VOLUNTEERS WHO MAN THE PARKING LOT AND HELP THE WOMEN GET TO THE CLINIC.

30 METER WALK TO KEEP THEM SHIELDED FROM THE PROTESTERS, WHO WEAR SIMILAR CLOTHING TO INTERCEPT PEOPLE BEFORE THEY GET TO THE CLINIC.

CLINIC VOLUNTEERS HAVE COPYRIGHTED VESTS NOW DESIGNED SPECIFIC TO THEMSELVES SO NO ONE CAN DIRECTLY COPY WHAT THEY'RE WEARING SO THEY CAN BE IDENTIFIED BY THE PEOPLE COMING IN.

IT IS INTIMIDATING.

PEOPLE ARE SHOUTING, THROWING THEMSELVES ON CARS.

ONE OB-GYN WHO WAS AN ABORTION PROVIDER IN THE CLINIC AND HE WAS CARRYING A FIREARM WHILE PERFORMING ABORTIONS.

TUCKED INTO HIS SCRUBS.

I KNEW IT WAS CONTENTIOUS BUT DIDN'T REALIZE THE PROVIDERS WERE SERIOUSLY WORRIED ABOUT THEIR LIVES.

>> IT WAS SHOCKING TO SEE THE DOCTOR CARRYING A PISTOL.

ONE OF THE PROVIDERS SAYING SHE DRIVES A CAR THAT DOESN'T STAND OUT FOR THIS REASON, TAKES DIFFERENT PATHS HOME, MAKES SURE SHE'S NOT FOLLOWED.

IF SHE GOES TO A RESTAURANT, WANTS NOBODY TO RECOGNIZE HER.

IT'S STUNNING THE LENGTHS THEY HAVE TO GO TO.

AND ALSO NOTABLE, THE MAJORITY, ALMOST 95% OF THE WOMEN WHO VISIT THIS CLINIC IN BRISTOL ARE NOT FROM VIRGINIA, SOME DRIVE AS FAR AS TEN HOURS JUST TO GET HERE FOR TREATMENT.

THE CONSEQUENCES OF SOME OF THESE REALLY DRACONIAN LAWS, MOST WOMEN DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY'RE PREGNANT AT SIX WEEKS.

BUT THE IMPACT ON WOMEN WITH UNVIABLE FETUSES, THEIR FETUS AT RISK, THEIR LIVES THEMSELVES ARE, TOO.

YOU'VE ENCOUNTERED AND SPOKE WITH SOME.

NICOLE BLACKWELL IS ONE.

LET'S PLAY SOUND.

>> I WAS GOING TO GIVE BIRTH TO A CHILD THAT WASN'T GOING TO LIVE.

I DID ASK THE NURSE TO PUT A SHEET IN BETWEEN ME AND HER SO WHEN I DID GIVE LABOR, I WOULDN'T SEE THE DEAD BABY COMING OUT.

HOW DO YOU PREPARE YOURSELF?

THERE WAS NO WAY OF TRYING TO PREPARE MYSELF.

I WAS IN LABOR FOR 32 HOURS.

THAT'S HOW COMPLICATED THE SITUATION WAS.

>> YOU STILL COULD HAVE DIED.

>> ANY OF THOSE HOURS.

KNOWING YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE BIRTH TO A CHILD THAT'S NOT GOING TO LIVE.

HOW CAN ANYONE JUST BE OKAY WITH THAT?

>> THAT WAS SO DIFFICULT TO WATCH, BELLE, ESPECIALLY KNOWING THAT NICOLE HAD FACED ANOTHER TRAGEDY IN HER LIFE, LOST HER YOUNG SON DUE TO GUN VIOLENCE IN 2023 AND 2024 IN AMERICA, OF ALL PLACES, A WOMAN IS FORCED TO DELIVER A STILLBORN FETUS KNOWN TO NOT BE VIABLE.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU TO BE SITTING THERE WITH THESE WOMEN TELLING YOU HEARTBREAKING STORIES?

>> I MEAN, I HONESTLY WAS SPEECHLESS.

NICOLE HAD BEEN THROUGH HELL.

14-YEAR-OLD WAS SHOT DEAD AS A RANDOM BYSTANDER TO A DRIVE-BY SHOOTING.

SHE GOT PREGNANT, CALLED IT HER MIRACLE CHILD.

THEN TOLD THE PREGNANCY WAS NONVIABLE, THE BABY WOULDN'T MAKE IT AND THE PREGNANCY WAS LIFE-THREATENING.

SHE COULDN'T AFFORD TO MOVE OUT OF THE STATE TO GET AN ABORTION.

ONLY AGENCY SHE HAD WAS TO PUT THE SHEET BETWEEN HER AND THE BITS OF THE BABY SHE WAS GIVING BIRTH TO.

SHE'S SO FRIGHTENED, SHE'S UNDERGONE A STERILIZATION.

WE'VE SEEN A RISE IN VASECTOMIES AND TUBAL LIGATIONS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SCARED.

NO ONE SHOULD BE TOO FRIGHTENED TO BE PREGNANT, FEEL THEY CANNOT BE TREATED.

NICOLE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE.

PEOPLE WHO DESPERATELY WANTED CHILDREN, THAT'S WHAT I REALIZED, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE MOTHERS OR PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO BE MOTHERS DESPERATELY.

D&C IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF MATERNAL HEALTH CARE AND WHAT I REALIZED IN MAKING THE FILM.

>> THE DEBATES ON THE BILLS BEFORE THEY WERE PASSED, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS WERE RAISED, WE COVERED THEM, HOW DRACONIAN THEY WERE, IMPACT ON THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER, RAPE, INCEST, UNVIABLE FETUS, ALL THE SCENARIOS THAT MEDICAL EXPERTS SAID DO AND WILL EXIST IF THE LAWS ARE PASSED, LAWMAKERS, MANY SAID IT'S HYPERBOLE, OVER EXAGGERATING AND FEAR-MONGERING, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

YOU SPOKE WITH A LAWMAKER IN TENNESSEE WHO VOTED FOR THIS LAW, A DOCTOR HIMSELF, ONLY TO REGRET IT AFTER THE FACT.

WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION LIKE?

>> IT WAS A REALLY FRANK CONVERSATION.

HE'S A REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR WHO VOTED FOR THE TRIGGER BAN IN 2019 BEFORE ROE V. WADE WAS OVERTURNED AND WAS HONEST, SAID I DIDN'T THINK THAT ROE V. WADE WOULD BE OVERTURNED, DIDN'T WANT THERE TO BE A VACUUM, AND ALSO HE ADMITTED THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM THE ANTIABORTION MOVEMENTS.

SO HE SIGNED THE TRIGGER BAN, HAD NO IDEA ROE WAS GOING TO FALL.

WHEN IT DID, THAT CAME INTO PLACE AND A TOTAL BAN AT THE BEGINNING, EVEN ECTOPIC PREGNANCIES.

HE REGRETS IT SO MUCH HE'S WORKING ON LEGISLATION FOR MEDICAL EXCEPTIONS, TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO HAVE ABORTIONS IN LIFE-THREATENING SITUATIONS, HAPPENING ALMOST EVERY DAY.

EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE AGREE WITH HIM, THEY WON'T VOTE FOR IT BECAUSE THE MOVEMENT IS SO STRONG AND STATE SENATORS ARE WORRIED ABOUT LOSING THE ABILITY TO BE VOTED IN AGAIN.

THERE'S IMMENSE PRESSURE.

IN THE MIDDLE, PREGNANT PEOPLE, WOMEN WHO ARE SUFFERING.

THIS IS THE DAILY REALITY NOW IN THE U.S. >> ON THE BALLOT THIS YEAR WAS ALSO THE QUESTION OF ENSHRINING ABORTION RIGHTS INTO A NUMBER OF STATE CONSTITUTIONS.

AND THAT IN FACT DID HAPPEN FOR SEVERAL STATES.

ONE NOTABLY DID NOT GET THE SUPER MAJORITY REQUIRED, FLORIDA.

HAD ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE LARGEST DESTINATIONS FOR THOSE SEEKING ABORTIONS AMONG THE SOUTH IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE IMPACTS ARE ALREADY BEING FELT.

WE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE SIX WEEK ABORTION LAW THERE.

YOU SPENT TIME IN THE STATE, WHAT DID YOU SEE THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY, THAT PARTICULAR AMENDMENT FOUR IN FLORIDA WAS 57%, JUST 3% SHORT OF PASSING.

BUT I WAS MEETING WOMEN THERE WHO WERE TERRIFIED.

MOST WOMEN DON'T KNOW THEY'RE PREGNANT AT SIX WEEKS.

AND THERE'S A 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD.

YOU HAVE TO GO TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD, THEN BE WITHIN THE SIX WEEK PERIOD AND 24 HOURS.

WOMEN WERE ON THE CUTOFF POINT GETTING ABORTIONS.

ONE SAID SHE MIGHT HAVE KEPT THE BABY WITH MORE TIME TO PLAN.

WASN'T SURE SHE'D HAVE THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT TO LOOK AFTER THE CHILD AND WAS PANICKING.

TALKING TO OB-GYNS, THEY SAID IT HAD A DIRECT IMPACT ON HEALTH CARE.

A LOT OF OB-GYNS WANT TO LEAVE OR RETIRE EARLY AND THERE'S CONCERN OF MEDICAL STUDENTS NOT WANTING TO PRACTICE THIS FORM OF MEDICINE OR IN ABORTION BANNED STATES.

THAT'S PROVEN IN REPORTS.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PHYSICIANS LEAVE STATES?

THAT'S HEALTH CARE DESERTS, ALREADY A PROBLEM IN THE U.S.

THERE'S MATERNAL HEALTH CARE DESERTS ACROSS PLACES LIKE FLORIDA, SO HEALTH CARE PLACES WILL CLOSE, FEWER DOCTORS, FEWER HOSPITALS, LESS HEALTH CARE.

>> RIPPLE EFFECTS ARE SO CONSEQUENTIAL.

I COMMEND YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO MAKE THIS FILM AND FOR THE BRAVE WOMEN WHO SPOKE WITH YOU.

BELLE TRUE, APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE PROGRAM.

>>> UP NEXT, A DEEP DIVE INTO THE LIFE WORK OF PROMINENT RENAISSANCE GENIUS LEONARDO DA VINCI.

HE WAS AN INFLUENTIAL PHILOSOPHER AND INVENTOR OF HIS TIME.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY DIRECTED BY FATHER/DAUGHTER DUO, KEN AND SARAH BURNS.

>> THE MOST CURIOUS MAN IN HISTORY, HE WAS ALWAYS CURIOUS, NEVER TOOK NO FOR AN ANSWER.

>> THERE ARE CERTAIN SUPREME FIGURES IN THE LIFE OF OUR SITUATION, SEEM TO BELONG TO TWO WORLDS AT ONCE.

>> IMPRESSIVE ACHIEVEMENT, VOLUMES OF PERSONAL NOTE BOOKS AND A SERIOUS OF INTERVIEWS.

THEY SAT DOWN TO TALK ABOUT IT.

>> WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> KEN, OVER THE YEARS, YOU'VE MADE ALMOST 40 FILMS ALL SET IN AMERICA.

NOW YOU'RE DOING DA VINCI, WHY?

>> IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, WALTER, WORKING ON A FILM ABOUT BENJAMIN FRANKLIN TOGETHER, YOU HAD GIVEN US A GOOD INTERVIEW, AND WE WERE HAVING DINNER IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND ALL EVENING LONG YOU WERE PUSHING ME TO CONSIDER LEONARDO DA VINCI.

IN AMERICA, THE GREATEST SCIENTIST WAS BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, IF NOT THE WORLD, AND THE COMPROMISES THAT CREATED THE UNITED STATES ARE HIS.

BUT I KEPT SAYING I DON'T DO NON-AMERICAN PROJECTS.

BUT TALKING TO MY DAUGHTER AND -- HAD CONTRIBUTED ON SEVERAL THINGS AND THEY LOVED THE IDEA OF LEONARDO.

SARAH AND DAVE PICKED UP MY GRANDCHILDREN, MOVED TO ITALY FOR A YEAR, DID THE RESEARCH, WROTE THE SCRIPT, DID MOST OF THE INTERVIEWS AND BROUGHT BACK ALL THE RAW MATERIAL WHICH WE HAD THE LUXURY AT PBS TO PORE OVER AND CREATE THIS PORTRAIT.

MANY OF THE THEMES WE GO FOR ARE UNIVERSAL IN THE AMERICAN STORY.

HERE IS A GUY SPEAKING TO THE UNIVERSEALITY OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

>> THE PEOPLE CONNECT THE ARTS TO THE SCIENCES, PEOPLE WHO CONNECT ENGINEERING TO THE HUMANITIES.

TALK ABOUT THAT THEME.

>> IT'S SPECIAL TO WHO LEONARDO WAS, HE HAD INTERESTS ACROSS A WIDE SPECTRUM AND DIDN'T SEE IT AS SEPARATE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS WERE RELATED AND PART OF HIS LARGER EFFORT TO UNDERSTAND THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING HE COULD ABOUT THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE, THE HUMAN BODY, HOW ALL THE THINGS ARE CONNECTED.

WE WERE INSPIRED BY LEONARDO'S INTEREST TO FIND WAYS TO TELL THE STORY IN WAYS THAT SHOWED THE INTERCONNECTEDNESS BETWEEN NATURE, ART, SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING, ALL THE THINGS THAT FASCINATED LEONARDO, HOW COULD WE SHOW THEM ALL AS RELATED AND CONNECTED.

>> THE ANCIENTS DESCRIBED MAN AS THE WORLD IN MINIATURE.

AS MUCH AS MAN IS COMPOSED OF EARTH, WATER, AIR AND FIRE, HIS BODY RESEMBLES THAT OF THE PLANET.

AS MAN HAS IN HIM BONES, THE SUPPORTS AND FRAMEWORK OF HIS FLESH, THE WORLD HAS ITS ROCKS, THE SUPPORTS OF THE EARTH.

AS MAN HAS IN HIM A POOL OF BLOOD, IN WHICH THE LUNGS RISE AND FALL IN BREATHING, SO THE BODY OF THE EARTH AS ITS OCEAN TIDE WHICH LIKEWISE RISES AND FALLS EVERY SIX HOURS AS IF THE WORLD BREATHES.

>> ANOTHER THING THAT CONNECTS DA VINCI TO FRANKLIN, THEY'RE TWO OF THE PEOPLE IN HISTORY WHO MOST TRIED TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU COULD KNOW ABOUT EVERY SUBJECT KNOWABLE.

HOW DOES THAT HELP THEM FIGURE OUT THE PATTERNS OF NATURE?

>> THIS IS THE KEY TO THE WHOLE THING.

WHAT'S SO INTERESTING WITH REGARD TO LEONARDO, HE'S BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK, HE'S NOT ABLE TO TAKE A TRADITIONAL TRAJECTORY THAT HIS FATHER, A WELL-KNOWN NOTARY IN FLORENCE, WOULD HAVE PERMITTED HIM TO DO, GO TO UNIVERSITY.

HE ENDS UP KNOWING MORE THAN ANY SCHOLAR IN ANY PARTICULAR DISCIPLINE, AND HE DOESN'T SEE THE BORDERS BETWEEN THE DISCIPLINES.

HIS FIRST TEACHER IS NATURE, AND AS GUILLERMO DEL TORO SAID AT THE OPENING, HIS RESPONSIBILITY WAS INTEGRATE THE UNIVERSE, ASK IT EVERY QUESTION ABOUT ITS NATURE.

HE'S STUDYING WATER DYNAMICS, BOTANY, ATMOSPHERE, ROCKS AND GEOLOGY AND FOSSIL DISTRIBUTION.

HE'S INVENTING, LOOKING AT FLIGHT AND GRAVITY BEFORE GALILEO, AND DOESN'T HAVE A TELESCOPE OR MICROSCOPE, BUT UNDERSTANDS A FUNDAMENTAL THING THAT THE SOLAR SYSTEM AND ATOM SHARE A SIMILAR AND ONE COULD SAY PROFOUND ARCHITECTURE.

THERE'S SOMETHING INCREDIBLY COMPELLING, HE'S ABLE TO ESCAPE THE SPECIFIC GRAVITY, NO PUN INTENDED, OF HIS UPBRINGING TO BECOME A PERSON WHO KNOWS ALMOST EVERYTHING.

THE MONA LISA IS A GREAT WORK OF SCIENCE AND HIS ANATOMIES ARE GREAT WORKS OF ART, AND I CAN HEAR HIM IN MY HEAD SAYING DON'T MAKE THE DISTINCTION.

I HAVE TO MAKE THE MONA LISA BY UNDERSTANDING THE BONE STRUCTURE, HOW HAIR AND THINGS DRAPE, THE ATMOSPHERES IN THE BACKGROUND.

I HAVE TO KNOW THE CIRCULATORY SYSTEM AND HOW THE HEART WORKS.

ALL OF THAT IS SO AMAZING, ABSOLUTELY WHY THIS IS THE MOST FAMOUS PAINTING ON EARTH.

WE MAY HAVE ENCRUSTED IT WITH POP SYMBOLISM, BUT THAT SMILE IS -- IN HER SMILE IS THE WHOLE HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

AND HE'S ABLE TO TAKE AND NOT ONLY MAKE A THREE DIMENSIONAL PORTRAIT BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE HAD DONE, BUT THE INTENTIONS OF THEIR MIND, WHAT THEY'RE THINKING, FEELING, SUFFERING AND JOY.

AND HIS LIFE IS THIS JOYOUS, INQUISITIVE INTEGRATION OF EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW.

FRANKLIN IS IN THAT REALM BUT TRAILING WAY BEHIND THE GUY I THINK IS THE MAN OF THE LAST MILLENNIUM.

>> SARAH, YOUR FATHER IS TALKING ABOUT THE INTERCONNECTION FOR LEONARDO OF ART AND SCIENCE AND DIDN'T MAKE THE DISTINCTION.

I REMEMBER THE DELUGE DRAWINGS HE MADE AT THE END OF HIS LIFE AT WINDSOR CASTLE.

I ASKED THE CURATOR IF HE MADE THE SPIRALS AS WORKS OF ART OR SCIENCE, AND THE CURATOR LOOKED AT ME WITH A HAUGHTY AIR AND SAID I DON'T THINK LEONARDO WOULD HAVE MADE THAT DISTINCTION.

HOW DID YOU SEE THE WAY HIS EXPERIMENTALISM, HIS LOVE OF SCIENCE AFFECTS HIS ART AND VICE-VERSA.

>> I THINK THAT CURATOR IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THESE THINGS ARE NOT DIFFERENT FOR LEONARDO, IT'S ALL PART OF THE SAME PROCESS OF EXPERIMENTATION, EXPLORATION AND PROCESS.

HE'S INTERESTED IN UNDERSTANDING ALL THESE THINGS AND HOW DO WE GET THERE.

HOW DO YOU STUDY THEM, HOW DO YOU EXPERIMENT WITH THEM, WHERE DO WE GO?

ALL OF THAT, HE'S MAKING THESE CONNECTIONS AND SEEING PATTERNS, HE'S LOOKING FOR PATTERNS ACROSS NATURE AND TYING ALL OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER.

FOR HIM, AS MY DAD WAS SAYING, THIS IS PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER.

PAINTINGS ARE A REFLECTION OF ALL HE'S LEARNED IN STUDYING ATMOSPHERE, THE CIRCULATORY SYSTEM, EVERY ASPECT OF THE HUMAN BODY, AND HE WANTS TO COMBINE IT ALL INTO THESE PIECES OF KNOWLEDGE.

ALL OF HIS WRITING REFLECTS THAT.

THERE ARE MORE THAN 4,000 PAGES LEFT BEHIND BY HIM.

FEW PAINTINGS, MANY UNFINISHED.

BUT THE NOTEBOOKS ARE AN INCREDIBLE WINDOW INTO A VERY UNIQUE MIND, FOR THAT CURIOSITY AND ABILITY TO SEE THE INTERCONNECTEDNESS OF ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING.

>> KEN, YOU USUALLY USE STILL PHOTOGRAPHS AND CALL IT THE KEN BURNS EFFECT, CIVIL WAR AND JAZZ.

HOW DO YOU DO IT IN A PERIOD WHERE THERE'S NO STILL PHOTOGRAPHS AND VIDEO?

>> WHAT WAS GREAT ABOUT WHAT SARAH AND DAVE WERE ABLE TO SUGGEST, BECAUSE OF LEONARDO'S LATERAL THINKING, IT SUGGESTED WE COULD SPLIT THE SCREEN, WHICH IS RISKY FOR US.

MY PROJECT IS TO SAY A PAINTING IS ALIVE, THREE DIMENSIONAL, YOU CAN GO INTO IT AND DO A CLOSE-UP AND LANDSCAPES ARE THE PAINTING.

WE REVERSED IT.

TO DO A SPLIT SCREEN, NOT JUST TWO FRAMES, MAYBE FOUR, SIX, NINE, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

INCLUDE MODERN FOOTAGE AND PHOTOGRAPHS ALL ACROSS THE 20th CENTURY WAS TO ENCOMPASS THE CAPACIOUSNESS OF HIS MIND AND HIS CURIOSITY.

WE RISKED RETURNING THOSE IMAGES TO THEIR PLASTICITY, THEIR TWO DIMENSIONALITY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME HONORING THE RANGE OF HIS WORK.

>> THE IDEA OF SPLIT SCREENS USED TO CONNECT THE PAST TO THE PRESENT SOMETIMES.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> IT'S LEONARDO'S LATERAL THINKING, WE WANT TO BE IN HIS BRAIN, THINK ABOUT WHAT HE'S SEEING AND THINKING AND PROCESSING THE INFORMATION.

ALSO THINKING ABOUT HIS IMAGINATION.

HE'S AN INCREDIBLE SCIENTIST AND THINKER, ALSO HAS EXTRAORDINARY IMAGINATION AND CREATIVITY.

THERE ARE ALL THESE THINGS, INVENTIONS, THINGS HE DRAWS, IDEAS HE HAS, THAT ARE AS YOU SAID INCREDIBLY MODERN.

IN MANY WAYS ARE THROWING US INTO THE FUTURE, INTO THE PRESENT.

HE DOESN'T INVENT THE HELICOPTER, BUT HE IMAGINES THAT SOMEDAY WE COULD CREATE MACHINES TO ALLOW US TO FLY.

ALL OF THAT GIVES US PERMISSION AND OPPORTUNITY TO USE MATERIAL FROM ACROSS THE CENTURIES TO REFLECT THAT MODERNITY AND REFLECT HIS IMAGINATION.

THESE THINGS THAT WE WILL EVENTUALLY ACHIEVE THAT HE PROFESSIZED.

WE CAN SEE HELICOPTERS AND CARS AND WHETHER HE'S PLANTING A SEED OR JUST IMAGINING THE POSSIBILITY OF THEM, IT GIVES US LICENSE TO EXPAND WHAT WE CAN THINK ABOUT AND SHOW.

FOR US, THAT WAS REALLY EXCITING.

IT WAS VERY DIFFERENT.

AND IT CREATED THIS CREATIVE OPPORTUNITY FOR US AND FOR OUR EDITORS TO PULL IN ALL KINDS OF MATERIALS WE WOULD NORMALLY NEVER CONSIDER.

EXPERIMENTAL FILMS, ALL KINDS OF STUFF.

>> YOU HAVE HIM AS THE INVENTOR OF MODERNITY.

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> YEAH.

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO INVENT THE HELICOPTER EXACTLY TO BE THE INVENTOR OF MODERNITY.

>> INVENTING AN ATTITUDE AND RELATIONSHIP TO LIFE, CREATION, ALL OF HISTORY, TO POSSIBILITY.

IN SO DOING, IT KEEPS HIS MOMENT AND VIEWPOINT UTTERLY ALIVE FOR US.

WITHIN HIS PURVIEW ALL OF THIS HAS TAKEN PLACE.

IT'S WONDERFUL.

IT'S NOT SAYING THERE'S A DIRECT LINE BETWEEN LEONARDO AND SIKORSKY, WHOEVER INVENTED THE HELICOPTER, BUT THERE IS IN THE SPIRIT OF TIME THE OPENING UP OF SPACES.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS, NOT HAVING THE CLASSICAL EDUCATION, FORMAL UNIVERSITY EDUCATION IS GREAT, BEING LIBERATED FROM THAT.

BUT ALSO HE DOESN'T LEAVE AS MUCH PERSONAL TABLOID INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT HE'S FEELING.

WE DON'T HAVE DIARIES.

4,000-PLUS PAGES THAT SARAH SAID ARE HIS PHILOSOPHY.

WE GET INSIDE HIS HEAD AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT HIS RELATIONSHIP.

FINALLY IMPORTED BY THE KING OF FRANCE TO BE HIS ARISTOTLE, YOU GO TO THE PRESUMPTION THAT IT'S ALEXANDER.

ARISTOTLE IS A GREAT PHILOSOPHER AND THINKER AND WRITER, BUT SO IS LEONARDO.

HE'S JUST NOT PUBLISHED IN HIS DAY.

IT ACCRETES OUT.

ALSO A BOTANIST, ANATOMIST, ARTIST AND CREATOR OF THE TWO MOST FAMOUS PAINTINGS IN THE WORLD.

>> MONA LISA AND THE LAST SUPPER.

>> WE HAD A LAST SUPPER IN OUR HOUSE.

THE MONA LISA IN IN EVERYONE'S IMAGINATION.

TO BE ABLE RESET THEM, TAKE OFF THE LAYERS OF POPULAR CONSIDERATION AND REBUILD A MONA LISA, VIRGIN IN THE ROCKS, LADY WITH THE ERMINE OR THE LAST SUPPER AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT ADDS VALUE THAT I THINK HE WOULD APPRECIATE.

WE MAKE JOKES ABOUT HER SMILE, WE COULD GO BACK TO A TIME WHEN THERE WAS A STUNNING REVELATION IN ALL OF HUMANITY IN THE 24-YEAR-OLD WIFE OF A WELL-TO-DO SILK MERCHANT.

>> HE PAINTS 14 OR 15 TOTALLY FINISHED PAINTINGS, HE LEAVES MOST OF HIS ART UNFINISHED.

LIKEWISE, DESIGNS HELICOPTERS THAT DON'T FLY AND WEAPONS OF WAR THAT ARE NEVER BUILT.

AS YOU LOOK AT HIS UNFINISHED WORK, WHAT DO YOU LEARN?

I KNOW YOU PROBABLY STOOD IN FRONT OF THE ADORATION OF THE MAGI, MY FAVORITE UNFINISHED PAINTING OF ALL TIME.

>> ALL TIME.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE THAT AS A FAILURE, AND I DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY AT ALL.

I THINK HE WAS INTERESTED IN PROCESS AND SAW THOSE WORKS AS EXPERIMENTS, SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS EVEN IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT THAT WAY.

FOR HIM IT WAS ABOUT WHAT HE COULD LEARN FROM THAT PROCESS AND HOW ALL OF WHAT HE'S LEARNED COULD BE DEPICTED IN THIS WAY.

I THINK WE'RE VERY LUCKY AS WITH THE ADORATION THAT HE DIDN'T FINISH IT.

IT'S SPECTACULARLY BEAUTIFUL EVEN IN THE PARTIALLY UNFINISHED STATE, AND IT GIVES US A SENSE OF WHAT HIS PROCESS WAS, HOW HE LAYERED THESE WORKS AND UNDERDRAWINGS AND UNDERPAINTINGS AND HOW HE SAW THE WORK, THE PAINTING ITSELF, AS AN EXPERIMENT.

AND THAT HE WAS MAKING CHANGES ON THE PANEL AS HE WENT, REARRANGING WHERE THIS THING WAS, MOVING SOMETHING AROUND, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY THE WAY HE WANTED TO TELL THIS STORY.

BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE PAINTINGS IN THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR ARE TELLING A STORY, AND REFLECTING ALL THESE DIFFERENT EXPRESSIONS AND IDEAS, THINKING ABOUT HOW ALL THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE REACTED IN THAT SCENE.

INCREDIBLY AMBITIOUS, MAY TOO AMBITIOUS TO FINISH.

>> IT'S A NARRATIVE, JUST LIKE THE LAST SUPPER, EMOTIONAL MOVEMENT.

>> EXTRAORDINARY, IT UNFOLDS OVER TIME.

THE FACT IT'S UNFINISHED IS THIS WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY TO SEE EVERYTHING HE PUT INTO A PAINTING AND THAT'S SORT OF UNIQUE.

>> YOU CALL HIM THE INVENTOR OF MODERNITY, WHAT WOULD IT BE LIKE IF HE CAME BACK TODAY?

>> SARAH, DAVE AND I TALK ABOUT THIS A LOT.

I THINK OF ALL THE PEOPLE OVER THE LAST 50 OR SO YEARS I'VE TOUCHED, TRIED TO WAKE UP, HE WOULD BE THE PERSON LEAST, SORT OF, URBED BY ARRIVING IN THE PRESENT MOMENT.

I THINK HE WOULD GO YOU DID THIS, YOU GOT THAT DONE.

YOU GOT TO THE MOON?

HOW DID YOU HANDLE THE GRAVITY THING.

HE WOULD BE THERE AND WOULD BE A FILM FILMMAKER AND PUT US ALL OUT OF BUSINESS, DOING IT BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

HE COULD DO IT.

HE'S ROOTED CLEARLY IN THIS TIME, LOOKING BACK TO THE ANCIENTS AND PROFESSIZING WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BECOME.

THERE'S AN AUTOMATIC MODERNITY AND MEANINGFULNESS HE WILL ALWAYS HAVE.

>> SARAH BURNS, KEN BURNS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US, WALTER.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" ON PBS.

THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.