December 9, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & CO.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

WHO IS LEADING THE NEW SYRIAN GOVERNMENT AFTER THE AL-ASSAD DICTATORSHIP FINALLY FALLS.

WE HEAR FROM SYRIAN JOURNALIST ABOUT THE JOINT OF LIBERATION AND THE SUDDEN COLLAPSE THAT CAUGHT ALMOST EVERYONE BY SURPRISE.

WHAT CHANCE OF AN ORDERLY TRANSITION?

YOU AND SPECIAL ENVOY FOR SYRIA JOINS US.

THEN -- >> IT IS A HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY FOR THE LONG SUFFERING PEOPLE OF SYRIA.

>> WHAT OF THE U.S. ROLE IN THE REGION?

I SPEAK TO DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JOHN FEINER.

>>> ALSO AHEAD.

>> AUSTIN TICE IS A LIFE AND TREATED WELL.

>> A MOTHERS HOPE FOR AN AMERICAN HOSTAGE IN DAMASCUS.

HIS SIBLINGS JOINED ME TO SPEAK ABOUT JOURNALISTIC AUSTIN TICE, WHO HAS BEEN HELD SINCE 2012.

>> AMANPOUR & CO IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS , CANDACE KING WEIR , THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

GOSTINO THE FILOMEN M. D FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND .

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COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS .

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THERE IS A NEW REALITY IN SYRIA AND THE ROAD AHEAD IS UNCLEAR AFTER REBELS SWEPT INTO THE CAPITOL, DAMASCUS, WITH LIGHTNING SPEED AND ENDED HALF A CENTURY OF OPPRESSIVE RULE BY THE AL-ASSAD FAMILY.

THE COMMONS IS A VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS PERSONALLY GRANTED BASSA ROLLOUT SAID SAFE HAVEN IN RUSSIA.

IN DAMASCUS, THESE WERE THE SCENES INSIDE ASSAD'S OFFICIAL RESIDENCE OVER THE WEEKEND, REBELS AND CIVILIANS WERE SEEN RANSACKING WHILE CROWDS GATHERED TO CELEBRATE IN THE MAIN SQUARE OF THE CAPITOL.

NOW, BACK IN 2005, SHORTLY AFTER AMERICA DEPOSED PRESIDENT SADDAM HUSSEIN IN NEIGHBORING IRAQ, I WENT TO DAMASCUS TO SPEAK TO ASSAD ABOUT CLOUDS GATHERING OVER HIS OWN HEAD EVEN THEN.

MR. PRESIDENT, THE RHETORIC OF REGIME CHANGE IS HEADED TOWARD YOU FROM THE UNITED STATES.

THEY ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR A NEW SYRIAN LEADER.

THEY ARE GRANTING VISAS AND VISITS TO SYRIAN OPPOSITION POLITICIANS.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ISOLATING YOU DIPLOMATICALLY AND PERHAPS A COUP D'ITAT OR YOUR REGIME CRUMBLING.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT THAT?

>> I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT FOR ONE REASON.

I WAS MADE IN SYRIA, NOT THE UNITED STATES.

I'M NOT WORRIED.

THIS IS A SYRIAN DECISION AND IT SHOULD BE MADE BY THE SYRIAN PEOPLE, NOBODY ELSE IN THIS WORLD.

>> WELL, IT TOOK 19 YEARS AND A TERRIBLE CIVIL WAR BUT THE SYRIAN PEOPLE HAVE INDEED MADE THEIR DECISION.

AND, THE REST OF THE WORLD TAKEN TOTALLY BY SURPRISE IS ALSO WELCOMING THE SUDDEN TURN OF EVENTS.

BUT, WHO EXACTLY ARE THESE REBEL LIBERATORS WHO INCLUDE HARD-LINE ISLAMIC MILITANTS FORMALLY ASSOCIATED WITH AL QAEDA AND ISIS, AS WELL AS MORE MODERATE FACTIONS?

MY FIRST GUEST IS A REPORTER WHO HAS REPORTED FOR YEARS ON THE HUMAN TOLL OF THE VIOLENCE IN HIS COUNTRY, OFTEN UNDER A PSEUDONYM FOR HIS OWN SAFETY.

HE IS JOURNALIST RAMI JARA, JOINING ME FROM BERLIN IN SELF- IMPOSED EXILE.

SPOKEN SEVERAL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THE CIVIL WAR.

AS A SYRIAN, SOMEONE WHO WAS FORCED TO LEAVE THE ASSAD CIVIL WAR, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING NOW?

>> I HAVE BEEN ASKED THAT QUESTION A LOT OVER THE PAST TWO DAYS.

HONESTLY YOU DO NOT HAVE A COHERENT ANSWER THAT I CAN GIVE RIGHT NOW.

OBVIOUSLY, I AM AT JOY BUT AT THE SAME TIME GIVEN THE EXPERIENCES, I SPEAK FOR MANY SYRIANS, FOR THE PAST 14 YEARS, WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HOPEFUL.

EVEN WHEN EVENTS SEEM TO LOOK LIKE THEY WERE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, WE WOULD BE SIGNED WITH A SERIES OF VERY UNFORTUNATE EVENTS.

AND I THINK MAYBE SYRIANS GENERALLY ARE TRAUMATIZED AND CAN'T JUST ACCEPT THAT THIS ONE ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE IT IS HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

JUST UNDER TWO WEEKS AGO SYRIAN TO ME, THIS WON'T BE A POPULAR THING TO SAY, SYRIA TO ME WAS A DISTANT MEMORY.

IT WAS A SUBJECT, A TOPIC I WANTED TO AVOID.

THAT WAS THE RESULT OF MANY THINGS THAT WENT WRONG.

AND, THE BASIC, BLEAK FUTURE THAT MYSELF AND MANY SYRIANS I THINK PERCEIVED THE FUTURE WOULD BRING.

>> CERTAINLY THE UNITED STATES, OTHERS IN THE REGION, THEY HAD PRETTY MUCH DECIDED THAT ASSAD HAD WON THIS CIVIL WAR AND THERE WERE ALL SORTS OF INTERVENTIONS TO TRY TO REHABILITATE HIM IN THE MIDDLE EAST REGION, TO TRY TO BRING HIM ON-SIDE, BY THE U.S., FOR INSTANCE, POTENTIALLY SEPARATING HIM FROM HIS MAIN BACKER, I RAN.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING - WHY HAS IT BEEN SUCH A SURPRISE?

HOW DID THIS REBEL COALITION NOT TOO FAR FROM INSIDE THE BORDER FROM TURKEY DO THIS?

PARTICULARLY SINCE THE LEADER, ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, SINCE THEY HAVE BEEN PLANNING FOR A YEAR.

>> IT WAS, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT I KNEW THAT THIS PLANNING WHAT'S GOING ON BUT ONCE THIS OFFENSIVE STARTED AND GIVEN THE LINKS THAT IN GENERAL SOMEONE HAS WITH THOSE INVOLVED, IT BECAME VERY CLEAR TO ME AND I THINK MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE ABLE TO REACH OUT AND GET INFORMATION THAT THIS EFFORT HAD BEEN PREPARED FOR QUITE A WHILE.

ANYONE CLAIMING AT THIS STAGE THAT THE GOAL WAS TO TAKE SYRIA AND BRING DOWN THE ASSAD REGIME IS JUST TAKING ADVANTAGE OF BEING ABLE TO SAY THAT IN HINDSIGHT.

I THINK THE REALITY IS THE AMBITION WAS TO TAKE BACK SOME TERRITORY.

THE NAME OF THE OFFENSIVE INDICATES THAT.

IT WAS TO BASICALLY REPEL A, AND OFFENSIVE BY THE GOVERNMENT .

THAT IS THE NAME OF THE MOVEMENT.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE ACTUALLY EXPECTED THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

I DEFINITELY SPEAK FOR MYSELF INSIDE AND I NEVER DREAMED THIS WOULD HAPPEN.

BUT, WHAT HAS BEEN I MEAN, IF I COULD JUST GIVE A QUICK BACK STORY.

ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI WAS OBVIOUSLY , HAD HIS LINKS TO THE ISLAMIC STATE AND OBVIOUSLY WITH AL QAEDA BUT HE HAS VERY PRAGMATICALLY, OVER THE YEARS, CREATED THESE LINKS AND DEFECTED FROM THEM.

WHEN HE PLEDGED ALLEGIANCE TO AL QAEDA, IT WAS BASICALLY TO PROTECT HIMSELF FROM THE ISLAMIC STATE BECAUSE HE HAD BASICALLY CROSSED AFTER THEY HAD SENT HIM TO ALEPPO.

SORRY, TO NORTHERN SYRIA TO ESTABLISH THE ISLAMIC STATE THERE.

THEN, HE BROKE TIES WITH AL QAEDA.

FIRST IT WAS JUST PUBLICLY, THEN IT BECAME AN OFFICIAL BREAK OF TIES.

WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT WAS THAT, MAINLY IN THE PAST FOUR, FIVE YEARS, ABU MOHAMMAD AL- JOLANI HAS WORKED WITH CIVIL SOCIETY TO BUILD A DEMONSTRATION OF 11 MINISTRIES AND WORK WITH CIVIL SOCIETY.

WHAT I AM SAYING NOW MIGHT SOUND LIKE I AM DEFENDING HIM.

I'M NOT.

I AM ACTUALLY VERY SKEPTICAL.

I DON'T TRUST ABU MOHAMMAD AL- JOLANI.

I THINK WHAT HE'S DOING NOW IS VERY PROMISING.

WE JUST HEARD OUT OF DAMASCUS TODAY I THINK DAMASCUS, THAT A NUMBER OF LAWS AND GUIDELINES HAVE BEEN SET FOR THE FACTORS, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO INTERFERE IN SOMETHING LIFE, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TELL WOMEN WHAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO WEAR AND NOT WEAR.

THESE THINGS ARE PROMISING.

ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI PLEDGING HE'S CONSIDERING DISSOLVING HTS IS A PROMISING THING TO SAY.

I THINK WHAT WE NEED MOVING FORWARD IS ACTION.

AND, I DON'T THINK THAT I DON'T THINK IT IS UP TO ME TO DECIDE OR SUGGEST THAT ABU MOHAMMAD AL- JOLANI SHOULD BE FORGIVEN FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE IN THE PAST.

I THINK THE FIRST STEP HE CAN TAKE IN ACTUALLY PROVING THAT, THE THINGS THAT HE HAS SAID THAT HE RESPECTS THE ASPIRATIONS OF SYRIANS WHO WANT TO SEE A FUTURE DEMOCRATIC STATE THAT WERE PRESENT THE RIGHTS OF ALL SYRIANS REGARDLESS OF OR ETHNICITY, THE FIRST STEP IN DOING THAT IS HANDING OVER POWER TO A TRANSITIONAL PERMIT AND BEEN ASSIGNED.

THAT IS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION.

>> THAT WILL BE A TEST, IF INDEED HE HAS SAID IT AND PLANS TO DO THAT.

PEOPLE SEE.

I GUESS HE IS IN CHARGE BUT THERE IS NO DESIGNATED LEADER OF THE NEW GOVERNMENT, AS SUCH RIGHT NOW.

YOU SAY HE HAS DONE THIS AND THAT PRAGMATICALLY.

HE HAS SAID TO HAVE RUN A VERY HARD-LINE ISLAMIC STATE WITH MAYBE NOT THE TALIBAN EXACTLY BUT, NONETHELESS, HARD-LINE.

AND, HE DID SPEAK, FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE WINNING ALEPPO.

HIS FIRST INTERVIEW TO CNN, I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT HE SAID TO TRY TO MAKE HIMSELF MAKE A MATCH TO THIS MOMENT.

>> I BELIEVE EVERYONE IN THE GHOSTLY FACES AND EXPERIENCES AND THESE EXPERIENCES INCREASE A PERSON'S AWARENESS.

SOMETIMES IT IS ESSENTIAL TO ADJUST TO REALITY AND BECAUSE SOMEONE WHO RIGIDLY CLINGS TO IDEAS OR PRINCIPLES WITHOUT FLEXIBILITY CANNOT EFFECTIVELY LEAD SOCIETIES OR NAVIGATE COMPLEX CONFLICTS LIKE THE ONE HAPPENING IN SYRIA.

>> AGAIN, WE HAVE, WE HAVE ALL INTERVIEWED MILITANTS WHO CLAIM THAT THEY WANT TO BE DEMOCRATS FOR THEIR PEOPLE AND THEN GO BACK ON THEIR WORD.

THE TALIBAN, AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION IN IRAN, THE WEST THOUGHT, THEY BELIEVED THEY WERE GOING TO BRING DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ETC.. WHAT I WOULD ASK YOU IS THIS.

A LOT OF THE LEADERS, I WAS AT THE DOHA FORM, THE RUSSIANS, THE IRANIANS, THE TURKS, THE SAUDI'S, EVERYONE WAS THERE AND THEY WERE ALL CAUGHT OFFGUARD.

THIS IS WHAT THE QATARI PRIME MINISTER TOLD ME ON STAGE.

THEY ARE ALL BLAMING ASSAD, SAYING HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FACT THAT THIS OFFENSIVE SLEPT THROUGH A HOT KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER.

HERE IS WHAT IT WILL MEAN.

>> IN THAT TIME WHEN THE MORE OVER THERE HAS COME DOWN YET TO ASSAD DIDN'T SEIZE OPPORTUNITIES TO START ENGAGING IN RESTORING HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS PEOPLE AND WE DON'T SEE ANY SERIOUS MOVEMENT, WHETHER IT IS ON THE RETURN OF THE REFUGEES OR IN RECONCILING WITH HIS OWN PEOPLE.

>> RAMI JARRAH, I WONDER WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT.

DO YOU THINK THERE WAS EVER A CHANCE, EVEN WHEN THE WAR GOT QUIET FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, THAT ASSAD COULD HAVE REBUILT LIMITED, RESPONDED TO THE LEGITIMATE DEMANDS OF THE SYRIAN PEOPLE?

>> I'M GOING TO SAY SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SOUND STRANGE BUT I AM GLAD HE DIDN'T STRIKE A DEAL WITH TURKEY AT LEAST BECAUSE TURKEY, IF WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE START OF THE CONDITIONS THAT ARE SET ON THE TABLE FOR NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN TURKEY AND SYRIA, TURKEY ESSENTIALLY WANTED TO HAND OVER THE NORTH BACK TO ASSAD.

ASSAD'S REFUSAL TO DO THAT, THERE WERE DISPUTES ON SOME OF THE DOMAINS TURKEY WAS MAKING, SUCH AS HOW DEEP THE BUFFER ZONE TURKEY WANTED HIM TO SYRIA, TURKEY WANTED 30 KILOMETERS WHERE AS ASSAD WHAT DID 6.

I THINK ASSAD WAS TRYING TO AVOID THIS ALTOGETHER BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO GOVERN SYRIA OR TAKE BACK THESE REFUGEES, ESPECIALLY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM BEING PEOPLE THAT OPPOSE HIS GOVERNMENT.

I THINK TURKEY WAS BASICALLY ON A PATH THAT WAS UNREALISTIC.

IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE SYRIAN PEOPLE.

RIGHT NOW IT SOUNDS STRANGE TO SAY.

I THINK THAT ABU MOHAMMAD AL- JOLANI, HTS AS THE OPPORTUNITY AND THESE REBEL GROUPS SEE THAT THEY NO LONGER DEPEND SOLELY ON TURKEY AS BEING THE BORDER THAT THEY SHARE WITH ANOTHER STATE.

THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER MOST OF SYRIA RIGHT NOW IS A SIGN THAT THEY COULD BE INDEPENDENT AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEPEND ON TURKEY OR GIVE INTO TURKEY'S CONDITIONS.

ONE REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO POINT OUT IS THE DIVISIONS BETWEEN ARABS AND KURDS IN SYRIA.

TURKEY IS THE MAIN INSTIGATOR OF THESE DISPUTES AND THIS IS A REASON THAT, I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH, OKAY, WE HAVE MANAGED, TO SOME EXTENT, DISCONNECT THE INFLUENCE OF RUSSIA AND IRAN OVER SYRIA BUT WE SHOULD HAVE JUST AS MUCH AN INTENTION TO DO THAT WITH TURKEY AS WELL.

TURKEY HAS ITS ASPIRATIONS.

THEY HAVE EXPANSION.

>> THEY ARE VERY CONCERNED SORT OF INTERNATIONAL INTERLOCUTORS WHO BELIEVE THAT TURKEY PROBABLY LOOKS AT THIS AS A MAJOR VICTORY FOR ITS INFLUENCE IN THAT REGION.

CAN I ENDED BY ASKING YOU ABOUT THE TERRIBLE HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD?

IT IS REALLY ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING AND CERTAINLY PEOPLE OF BASHAR AL ASSAD AND HIS FAMILY AND HENCHMEN, WE HAVE SEEN PEOPLE RUSHING TO THE NOTORIOUS PRISONS IN DAMASCUS.

MANY YEARS AGO, WE BROKE THIS THE STORY OF THE PICTURES HE BRAVELY BROUGHT THE WORLD.

IT IS QUITE ORDINARY NOW TO WATCH PEOPLE RUSH TO THE PRISON TO TRY TO FIND NEWS OF THEIR LOVED ONES.

HOW DO YOU FEEL WHEN YOU ARE SEEING THESE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND ON VIDEO?

>> I HAVEN'T CRIED IN YEARS AND LITERALLY YEARS.

THESE SCENES HAVE BEEN THE MOST EMOTIONAL SCENES FOR SYRIANS.

I THINK THE PAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS, I SPEAK FOR MYSELF.

I THINK I REPRESENT QUITE A FEW PEOPLE.

AS SYRIA BECAME A HOPELESS CASE FOR SYRIANS, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT LEFT THE COUNTRY, LIKE MYSELF, THERE WAS ALWAYS THIS SENSE OF GUILT TOWARD THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN KILLED BUT ALSO A CONTINUOUS GUILT FOR THOSE THAT REMAINED IN ASSAD'S DUNGEONS, WATCHING PRISON AFTER PRISON THE ENTIRE PRISONS BEGIN FOR ME.

IT WAS EXHILARATING.

I THINK I HAVEN'T CRIED SO MUCH IN SO LONG LIKE A BABY AND I REALLY DON'T HAVE THE WORDS.

THE AMOUNT OF PAIN THAT PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH.

I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE FRANTIC.

SOME PEOPLE, UNFORTUNATELY, ARE STILL WAITING TO SEE.

THERE WAS AN EFFORT WHERE IN PRISON, THEY CAN SEE THEM ON THE CCTV AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE IN THE PRESENCE BECAUSE THE GUARDS DISCONNECTED THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM BEFORE THEY LEFT AND THEY STOPPED THE VENTILATION.

EVEN WHEN THEY WERE LEAVING, IT WAS CRIMINAL AND THE THINGS THAT WE ARE SEEING IN THESE PRISONS.

THERE WERE CHILDREN, BABIES IN THESE PRISONS.

THOUSANDS OF WOMEN JUST LEFT TO ROT IN THESE PRISONS.

IT IS UNBELIEVABLE WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IS A VINDICATION FROM THE SYRIAN PEOPLE, ONE THAT WAS DESPERATELY NEEDED.

I THINK SYRIANS ARE TRAUMATIZED.

WE HAVE BECOME SCAPEGOATS ON THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL.

EVEN IN DOMESTIC AFFAIRS IN EUROPE AND THE WEST, WE HAVE BECOME SCAPEGOATS FOR DOMESTIC PROBLEMS.

RACISM.

I THINK THIS IS A SORT OF VINDICATION.

WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN OUR COUNTRY BACK AND WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY NOW TO BUILD IT AND BUILT A COUNTRY THAT REPRESENTS ALL OF SYRIA, SOMETHING THAT JUST UNDER TWO WEEKS AGO WAS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

>> IT IS REMARKABLE AND WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY AND ALL YOU DID THROUGH THE CIVIL WAR TO REPORT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

RAMI JARRAH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>>> AS WE JUST WERE DISGUSTING, THE MOST NOTORIOUS PRISONS HAVE BEEN FORCED OPEN.

THOUSANDS OF INMATES FIND THEMSELVES FREE THANKS TO THE COURAGE OF ONE MAN, THE ACTUAL HARBOR CHAMBERS OF ASSAD'S PRISON SYSTEM WERE REVEALED TO THE WORLD A FEW YEARS AGO.

BETWEEN 2011 AND 2013, A FORMER MILITARY PHOTOGRAPHER KNOWN ONLY AS CAESAR SMUGGLED SHOCKING EVIDENCE OF WAR CRIMES OF SYRIA.

HE HAD BEEN ORDERED TO PHOTOGRAPH TORTURED, STARVED, AND BURNED BODIES INSIGHT BETWEEN JAILS AT GREAT RISK TO HIMSELF.

HE MADE COPIES, 50,000 OF THEM.

BACK IN 2014, WE, ON THIS PROGRAM, ALONG WITH "THE GUARDIAN" NEWSPAPER, BROKE THIS NEWS AND BROADCAST THE TERRIBLE EVIDENCE.

THREE YEARS LATER, I SPOKE TO THE STILL ANONYMOUS PHOTOGRAPHER IN HIS FIRST TV INTERVIEW.

THIS CLIP CONTAINS SOME OF CAESAR'S PHOTOS, AND, OF COURSE, THEY ARE GRAPHIC.

CAESAR, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOUR JOB WAS AND WHY YOU DECIDED TO PUBLICIZE, TO SMUGGLE OUT THESE PICTURES?

>> I USED TO WORK INSIDE THE MILITARY POLICE WITH A GROUP OF OTHER PHOTOGRAPHERS THAT HAVE DIFFERENT SPECIALTIES.

OUR JOB, WE TOOK PICTURES OF ACCIDENT IF SOMEBODY WAS KILLED, IF THERE WAS A SUICIDE, IF THERE WAS SOMEONE WHO DROWNED OR IF THERE WAS A FIRE.

PART OF OUR WORK IN THE FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND IS TWO AND TO DOCUMENT THE ACCIDENT AND TO WORK WITH THE JUDGES AND THE DETECTIVES FROM THE MILITARY POLICE.

BUT, AFTER THE BEGINNING OF THE REVOLUTION, AFTER 2011, MY WORK CHANGED IN A VERY FUNDAMENTAL WAY.

WE WERE NO LONGER TAKING PICTURES OF ACCIDENT OR SUICIDE OR A DROWNING.

ALL OF OUR WORK, FOR ME, AND FOR MY TEAM, WAS TO TAKE PICTURES OF MARTYRS, OF PRISONERS THAT WERE DETAINED IN THE ASSAD JAILS.

>> WHEN DID YOU REALIZE YOUR JOB HAD CHANGED AND WERE THERE ARE MANY, MANY MORE BODIES THAT YOU WERE PHOTOGRAPHING ON A REGULAR BASIS THEN BEFORE THE REVOLUTION?

>> THERE WERE SMALL NUMBERS AT FIRST, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE REVOLUTION.

WE WOULD TAKE HIM IN A DAY, 10 TO 20 PEOPLE.

SOMETIMES 5 TO 10 BODIES THAT WE WOULD GET DAILY.

BUT, AS THE REVOLUTION WENT ON, AT THE BEGINNING OF 2012, FOR EXAMPLE, THE NUMBER STARTED COMING UP IN A MARKED WAY.

WE STARTED TAKING PHOTOS OF 20, AND 30, UNTIL IT CAME TO A POINT WHERE WE WERE TAKING MAKE 50 OR MORE BODIES EVERY DAY BY 2013, FOR EXAMPLE.

>> CAESAR, WE ARE SEEING REALLY HORRIBLE PICTURES.

WE HAVE THEM PROJECTED ON OUR WALL HERE.

THESE ARE THE PICTURES THAT YOU SMUGGLED OUT.

WHAT WERE THE CAUSES OF DEATH THAT YOU WERE RECORDING?

>> MOST OF THE BODIES WE WERE TAKING PHOTOS OF SORT OF PEOPLE THAT, BY THE WAY, WERE PEACEFUL PEOPLE.

THESE ARE SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT JUST TOOK PART OF THE REVOLUTION, OF THE PROTESTS IN DAMASCUS AND THEY ARE CALLING FOR FREEDOM.

THERE WERE SIGNS OF SOMETIMES THEN BEING SHOT AND YOU CAN SEE MANY MOONS IN THEIR HEADS AND THEIR BODIES AND THEIR ARMS.

HE BEGAN TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF BODIES THAT HAD ALL THE SIGNS OF ALL TYPES OF TORTURE, OF STARVATION FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME AND THEY WOULD BE A DOCTOR AND THERE WOULD BE A PHOTOGRAPHER.

AND, THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE FROM THE SECURITY FORCES WITH US TO GO BODY BY BODY AND WE WOULD NUMBER THEM BASED ON THE NUMBER THAT THEY WERE MURDERED IN.

>> CAESAR, DID YOU EVER DARE ASK YOUR SUPERIORS WHAT WAS GOING ON?

>> WHO DOESN'T LIVE IN SYRIA DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION OF HOW MUCH FEAR THERE EXISTED WITHIN US.

EVEN THE PATHOLOGIST HAD A HIGH LEVEL, A HIGH RANK BUT HE WAS TERRIFIED OF THE INTELLIGENCE.

THE INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS THAT WERE WITH US, IT WAS TERRIFYING.

IT WAS NOT ALLOWED FOR US TO ASK ANY QUESTION.

>> YOU WERE DOING THIS FOR TWO YEARS, WHAT IMPACT DID IT HAVE ON YOU PERSONALLY?

>> I WAS HORRIFIED, I WAS TERRIFIED EVERY DAY OF THE JOB THAT I WAS DOING.

I WOULD LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT HORRENDOUS WAYS THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE SLAUGHTERED AND TORTURED TO DEATH.

THE ONLY CLAIM THEY HAD WAS THAT THEY CALLED FOR THEIR OWN DIGNITY AND FOR THEIR OWN FREEDOM.

THEN I WOULD, I WOULD PICTURE MY OWN SELF ON THE FACES OF THESE BODIES AND WORRY ABOUT MY FAMILY BEING IN THEIR PLACE.

MANY TIMES, I SAW PEOPLE THAT I KNEW PERSONALLY.

BECAUSE OF THE HORRENDOUS TORTURE THAT THEY HAPPENED TO THEM, IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO RECOGNIZE THEM.

THE TYPES OF TORTURE WERE THE WORST THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN.

A VERY BLOODTHIRSTY REGIME.

>> CAESAR HAD BEEN, OF COURSE, TESTIFYING BEFORE CONGRESS AND ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO UNDERSTAND WHY THERE WAS THE CIVIL WAR, WHY THERE WAS A REVOLUTION THAT DEPOSED ASSAD IN THE END ONLY HAS TO LISTEN TO HIM AND ONLY HAS TO LOOK AT THOSE PHOTOS.

FOR YEARS, THE UNITED NATIONS TRIED IN VAIN TO STOP ALL THE BLOODSHED OF THE CIVIL WAR.

>>> NOW, ASSAD IS GONE, HE HAS ESCAPED THE FATE OF GADHAFI, HE HAS COME TO SAFETY.

THE NEXT HOURS AND DAYS ARE CRITICAL.

THE UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL ENVOY FOR SYRIA, GEIR PEDERSEN, SAYS IT IS A WATERSHED MOMENT IN SYRIA'S HISTORY AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW FROM GENEVA.

GEIR PEDERSEN, I KNOW YOU WERE LISTENING TO THAT.

I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU TO JUST COMMENT ON IS IT ANY WONDER THERE WAS A REVOLUTION?

IS IT WONDER THAT PEOPLE ROSE UP AGAINST THIS KIND OF BARBARISM, REALLY?

WHAT IS YOUR FEELING?

>> NO, FRANKLY SPEAKING, WE KNOW THIS FROM OF COURSE 2011, 2012, 2013.

THIS IS WHEN IT STARTED, WHEN THE SYRIAN PEOPLE ROSE UP AND DEMANDED JUSTICE, PEACE, AND DEMOCRACY.

OF COURSE, WHAT YOU HAVE JUST SHOWN, IT JUST PROVES THE ENDLESS SUFFERING THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOING TO.

THE MORE THAN HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL MISSING.

MAYBE, MANY OF THEM HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME OUT OF THE PRISONS BUT I AM AFRAID THERE ARE PEOPLE WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE AND THEY ARE STILL MISSING.

WE ALL I THINK ARE FILLED WITH GRIEF THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN.

IT IS A DAY OF CELEBRATION AND JOY FOR THOSE WHO MANAGED TO GET OUT AND WE MOURN THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES AND SUFFERED DURING ALL THOSE YEARS.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FILE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME, THE SYRIA ISSUE.

JUST REMIND PEOPLE, THESE WERE KIDS WHO ROSE UP IN A LITTLE TOWN WHO JUST WANTED TO HAVE A BIT OF REFORM.

THEY WERE STEPPED SWEPT AWAY IN THE SPRING AND NEVER ASKED FOR THE OVERTHROW OF THE DICTATOR.

THEY JUST WANTED REFORM.

TREMENDOUS HOW HE RESPONDED THAT LED TO THESE 13 YEARS OF SUCH CRUELTY.

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IT STARTED AS PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATIONS AND FOR A FEW MONTHS, THERE WAS HOPE IT COULD END PEACEFULLY.

ASSAD HAD A COUPLE ADDRESSES TO THE PARLIAMENT DURING THE SPRING OF 2011 FOR WE ARE THE PEOPLE WERE HOPING THAT HE WOULD ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THEN IT VERY QUICKLY GOT VIOLENT.

THEN WE SAW ALSO THAN THAT OF THE OPPOSITION GOT ARMED AND IT ENDED IN A BRUTAL CIVIL WAR.

WE LOST PROBABLY MORE THAN 500,000 PEOPLE KILLED.

AT THE HEIGHT OF THE FIGHTING, THERE WERE IN SYRIA MORE THAN 1200 DIFFERENT ARMED GROUPS.

AND, OF COURSE, WE THEN SAW DURING THOSE YEARS THE RISE OF AL QAEDA OR ISIS AND WE KNOW WHAT THAT LED TO HIM ALSO SUFFERING FOR THE SYRIAN PEOPLE.

SO, IT WAS SUCH AN ENORMOUS TRAGEDY THAT AT THE TIME I THINK IN 2011 NO ONE COULD PREDICT WOULD BE HAPPENING.

>> AS WE HAVE SAID, NOBODY PREDICTED THE SPEED WITH WHICH THIS CURRENT REBEL OFFENSIVE AGAINST ASSAD TOOK PLACE.

YOU WERE AT THE DOHA FORUM IS WEEKEND.

HE MET WITH MINISTERS FROM ALL THE RELATED COUNTRIES.

WHAT HAVE ALL DECIDED?

HAVE YOU CALLED FOR A TRANSITIONAL GOVERNMENT?

WHAT ARE THE ACTORS DOING?

WHO DO YOU ALL THINK ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI IS, HTS IS, WHAT THEY WILL ACTUALLY DO AS GOVERNORS?

>> VERY, VERY GOOD QUESTIONS.

REMIND ME SO I DON'T MISS THE SECOND PART OF THE QUESTION.

LET ME START WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

I THINK, YOU KNOW AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID I DISCUSSED WITH THE IRANIAN, THE RUSSIAN, THE TURKISH FOREIGN MINISTERS AND ALSO WITH THE EGYPTIAN, THE SAUDI, THE CRANKY, THE JORDANIAN, AND, OF COURSE, THE QATARI.

I THINK ALL UNDERSTOOD THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE SITUATION AND THIS IS IMPORTANT, THE POSSIBILITIES THAT THIS COULD BE A NEW OPENING FOR THE SYRIAN PEOPLE, TURNING THE PAGE AND A NEW OPENING TO A NEW SYRIA THAT COULD BE INCLUSIVE OF ALL.

FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW THAT THERE NEEDED TO BE IMMEDIATE DE-ESCALATION.

WE SHOULD NOT SEE A FIGHT BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT ARMED GROUPS THAT HAVE NOW ENTERED INTO DAMASCUS, AND ALSO TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT THERE ARE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY THAT ARE NOT UNDER THE CONTROL OF THESE ARMED GROUPS.

YOU HAVE THE COAST, WHERE WE HAVE MOST OF THE ALAWITES AND WE HAVE THE NORTHEAST WITH THE KURDISH AND THE SO-CALLED STF AND AMERICAN PRODUCTION.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY ISSUES THAT ARE NOT SORTED OUT.

TO GET OFF TO A GOOD START, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THESE GROUPS KNOW HOW TO COOPERATE BUT ALSO THAT THIS SENDS A MESSAGE THAT THEY WILL ESTABLISH A TRANSITIONAL BODY THAT IS INCLUSIVE OF ALL COMMUNITIES IN SYRIA, THAT NO ONE WILL BE EXCLUDED.

AND, SO FAR, WE ARE LUCKILY ENOUGH, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE THAT THE MESSAGING COMING OUT BY AND LARGE, HAVE BEEN POSITIVE FROM THE ARMED GROUPS.

BUT, WHAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, THOUGH, IS WE ACTUALLY SEE THIS IS IMPLEMENTED ON THE GROUND.

IF THAT IS HAPPENING, THEN I AM HOPE THIS COULD REALLY BE A PAGE THAT IS TURNED AND WE COULD SEE THE EMERGENCE, HOPEFULLY SOON, A NEW AND DEMOCRATIC SYRIAN THAT REALLY HAS BEEN THE ASPIRATIONS FOR THE SYRIAN PEOPLE SINCE 2011.

>> THAT IS IT.

YOU COVERED IT.

IT WAS ABOUT ABU MOHAMMAD AL- JOLANI AND HE HAS SAID TO CNN THAT HE BELIEVES ALL SECTS IN SYRIA SHOULD BE RESPECTED BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY.

YOU ALL KNOW HOW IDLIB WAS RUN UNDER THESE GROUPS AND YOU ALSO KNOW HISTORICALLY FOR THE LAST 13 YEARS THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH DIVISION BETWEEN THE VARIOUS AND ALL SORTS OF SHADES OF WHO THEY ARE FROM THE EXTREMISTS TO MODERATE.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE IN IDLIB UNDER HTS?

IT WAS PRETTY HARD TO FIND, UNDERSTAND.

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IDLIB WAS RUN BY AN ISLAMIST GROUP, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

MY MESSAGES THE FOLLOWING.

SYRIA CANNOT BE RUN LIKE IDLIB.

AS YOU RIGHTLY POINTED OUT, THE MESSAGING COMING OUT FROM ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, AMONG OTHER PLACES HE GAVE TO CNN SHOULD BE REASSURING.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT NOW IS THAT TO SEE THAT THIS IS IMPLEMENTED PRACTICALLY IN GOVERNANCE ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND SO WHAT IS THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT TO HEAR THIS IS COMING FROM SYRIANS ACROSS THE BORDER.

THIS IS THE MESSAGE TO THE ARMED GROUPS IN DAMASCUS.

LET'S NOT START FIGHTING AGAINST EACH OTHER AGAIN.

AND, IT IS ALSO A MESSAGE COMING FROM THE UNITED INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

WHEN I WAS IN DOHA, WE HAD LATE SATURDAY NIGHT, WE HAD A MEETING BETWEEN THE ARAB FOREIGN MINISTERS AND THE IRANIAN AND THE TURKISH AND THE RUSSIANS.

AND, WE ALL AGREED ON THIS MESSAGE.

I THINK THIS IS A GOOD BEGINNING BECAUSE IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE.

IN THE END, IT WILL BE THE SYRIANS THEMSELVES WHO DECIDE THIS.

HOPEFULLY WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

>> GEIR PEDERSEN, U.N.

ENVOY FOR SYRIA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

>>> NOW, SOME OF THE BOARDS WORST FIGHTING HAPPENED IN ALEPPO, WHICH IS SERIOUS SECOND- LARGEST CITY.

JUST FIVE DAYS AGO, IT BECAME THE FIRST CITY TO FALL TO THE REBELS.

BACK IN 2016, I SPOKE TO DR. FARRIDA FROM THE CITY.

WORRIED FOR HER SAFETY, SHE WORE A SURGICAL MASK TO CONCEAL HER IDENTITY WHEN WE SPOKE.

I SEE YOU HAVE NO LIGHT THERE.

WHAT IS OF THE SITUATION?

>> I DON'T HAVE ELECTRICITY, NO WATER, NOTHING IN ALEPPO.

TODAY, I CAME HOME AND FIND MY HOME PARTIALLY DESTROYED.

I CAN'T CLEAN BECAUSE THERE IS NO WATER.

NOW THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY.

I JUST GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND CHARGE MY PHONE AND DO SOME OPERATIONS AND EMERGENCY AND THEN I CAME HOME TO FIND EVERYTHING IS DESTROYED AND THE GOVERNMENT ARMY IS THERE.

IT IS ABOUT TWO KILOMETERS BETWEEN THEM AND MY HOUSE.

>> THE LAST TIME WE TALKED BEFORE THIS OFFENSIVE HAD REALLY MADE SO MUCH PROGRESS, YOU TOLD ME IT WAS LIKE LIVING IN A HORROR MOVIE.

WHAT IS CHANGING, HOW IS IT CHANGING?

>> IT IS WORSE.

IT IS WORSE.

NOW WHEN I HAVE BEEN IN THE HOSPITAL IN THE MORNING, I SAW ONE LITTLE CHILD ABOUT THREE YEARS IN THE OPERATING ROOM.

I FIND HIS SHIRT IN THE GROUND.

I GIVE IT TO HIM.

I TOLD HIM, LITTLE BOY, TAKE YOUR SHOE.

HE TOLD ME, NO, I DON'T NEED IT ANYMORE.

I LOST MY LEG.

IN ALEPPO, YOU CAN SEE CHILDREN EVERYDAY.

I SEE ONE GIRL AT THE AGE OF MY GIRL, ABOUT EIGHT YEARS.

SHE LOST ONE HAND.

YOU CAN IMAGINE A LITTLE BABY AT THIS AGE, THEY DON'T HAVE A CHILDHOOD.

THEY HAVE A BROKEN LEG, THEY HAVE CUT OFF THEIR LEGS OR THEIR HAND.

THEY HAVE A COLOSTOMY, THEY HAVE SOME INJURIES, THEY HAVE BURNS.

YOU CAN'T IMAGINE A CHILD STILL ALIVE IN THIS, THEY ARE LIKE DISABLED.

>> THAT WAS EIGHT YEARS AGO, THAT SUFFERING HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR SO, SO LONG.

NOW, A PEACEFUL FUTURE BEYOND ALL OF THAT IS THE HOPE FOR MANY RIGHT NOW, OF COURSE.

>>> IT IS UNCERTAIN, AS WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING.

THE U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY, LLOYD AUSTIN, IS WARNING ISIS COULD ATTEMPT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION AND THE UNITED STATES HAS ALREADY BOMBARDED THEIR POSITIONS.

UP TO NOW, THE LEADER OF HTS HAS HAD A $10 MILLION U.S. BOUNTY ON HIS HEAD.

NOW, JOHN FEINER IS THE U.S. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR AND HIS JOINING US FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

SO MUCH SUFFERING AS WE HAVE BEEN CHEWING AND SO MUCH HOPE THAT THIS WILL BE ENDED.

I KNOW WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID, THAT IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY BUT ALSO POTENTIALLY A CHALLENGE.

WHAT ARE YOU ALL THINKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE?

WILL YOU HAVE ANY ABILITY TO STEER THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND?

>> SO, I THINK THE PRESIDENT'S WORDS ARE QUITE IMPORTANT ON THIS.

THIS IS A MOMENTOUS OCCASION, A MOMENT THAT IS FULL OF SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE SYRIAN PEOPLE.

THAT IS A SENTENCE YOU COULD NOT SAY AT ANY POINT, CERTAINLY DURING THE 13 YEAR CIVIL WAR AND THE GENERATIONS OF OPPRESSION AND TYRANNY THAT PRECEDED IT.

THE DICTATOR WHO PERPETRATED THAT CONFLICT IS GONE.

THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED SO MUCH NOW HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A DIFFERENT FORM OF GOVERNANCE AND A DIFFERENT FUTURE.

THAT SAID, AS THE PRESIDENT SAID YESTERDAY AND AS I THINK YOUR INTRO SUGGESTED, THIS IS ALSO A MOMENT THAT IS FULL OF NOT INSIGNIFICANT RISK.

SOME OF THE GROUPS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN TOPPLING BASHAR AL ASSAD HAVE A CHECKERED PAST.

ISIS, WHICH THE UNITED STATES HAS DRAMATICALLY DIMINISHED OVER THE COURSE OF A DECADE OF FIGHTING THAT TERRORIST GROUP STILL EXISTS IN SYRIA AND WE WILL BE VIGILANT TO MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T CONCERN.

UNITED STATES HAS PARTNERS AND FAMILIES WORRIED ABOUT THE RISK THIS COULD PRESENT TO THEM.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, AS THE PRESIDENT LAID OUT, WE WILL BE STANDING WITH THE SYRIAN PEOPLE AND TRYING TO WORK TOWARD A BETTER FUTURE AND SHAPE THIS IN THE MOST CONSTRUCTIVE DIRECTION WE CAN.

IT IS NOT FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT US, IT IS ABOUT THEM.

>> THE UNITED STATES HAS HAD A CHECKERED HISTORY ABOUT THIS 13 YEARS OF CIVIL WAR, NOT QUITE GOING ALL IN, NIGHT, NOT QUITE BACK.

THE FAMOUS RED LINE THAT WAS CROSSED WITH IMPUNITY.

YOUR BOSS, JAKE SULLIVAN, THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, HAS SAID THE FOLLOWING ABOUT WORKING WITH THE VARIOUS GROUPS ON THE GROUND.

LET ME JUST PLAY IT.

>> WE ARE GOING TO WORK WITH ALL THE GROUPS IN SYRIA.

AS PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID YESTERDAY, THE REBEL GROUPS, INCLUDING THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED AS TERRORIST GROUPS HAVE SAID ALL THE RIGHT THINGS.

NOW, THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WILL THEY DO TO TRY TO BRING ABOUT A BETTER SYRIA?

>> SO, I LED INTO YOU AND I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT IS STILL TRUE, YOU CAN TELL ME, FOLLOWING ON BUT JAKE SULLIVAN SAID, THERE HAS BEEN A $10 MILLION U.S. BOUNTY ON THE HEAD OF ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI .

IS THAT STILL EXISTING?

ARE YOU GOING TO REMOVE IT?

ARE YOU IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM IN TOUCH OR TRAINING TO SEND MESSAGES, TRYING TO REACH HIM FOR DIALOGUE?

>> WE HAVE NOT YET IN ANY WAY CHANGED ANY FORMAL POLICY WITH REGARD TO THE GROUPS THAT TOPPLED ASIDE, INCLUDING WITH THE POLICIES YOU DESCRIBED.

THE REMAIN IN PLACE, BECAUSE AS JAKE SULLIVAN SAID AND THE PRESIDENT SAID, WE ARE NOT GOING TO JUDGE THESE GROUPS BASED ON WHAT THEY HAVE JUST DONE IN TERMS OF TOPPLING ASSAD OR THE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE AND POSITIVE THINGS THAT HAVE SAID, INCLUDING ON THIS VERY NETWORK.

BUT, ON HOW THEY APPROACH THE GREATER RESPONSIBILITY THAT THEY ARE ON THE CUSP OF TAKING ON.

IN TERMS OF WHETHER WE ARE ABLE TO CONVEY DIRECT MESSAGES TO SOME OF THE GROUPS INVOLVED, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CONVEY THOSE MESSAGES BEYOND THAT.

IN TERMS OF FORMAL DISCUSSIONS, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO DESCRIBE AT THIS POINT BUT THAT IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING UNDER CONSIDERATION HERE.

>> JONATHAN FINER, I'M SORRY ABOUT THE NOISE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE BACKGROUND.

BUT, IN ANY EVENT, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO ME, AND CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, YOU ARE SAYING AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THESE PEOPLE.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE RUNNING THINGS NOW IN SYRIA.

IT SEEMS TO ME THE U.S.

DOESN'T HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF LEVERAGE RIGHT NOW.

CLEARLY ASSAD'S BACKERS WERE CAUGHT COMPLETELY OFF GUARD, RUSSIA AND IRAN AND THEY ARE BUSY WITHDRAWING AFTER 13 YEARS OF WHAT APPARENTLY HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLY BAD INVESTMENT.

YOU KNOW, IT IS NOW THE KURDS, IT IS HTS, A WHOLE NUMBER OF ALPHABET SOUP GROUPS.

HOW DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT AND WHAT, FOR INSTANCE, DO YOU THINK TURKEY HAS TO GAIN?

IT SEEMS TO BE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT NOW.

>> FAR BE IT FOR ME TO MAKE PREDICTIONS ABOUT HOW THIS IS ALL GOING TO PLAY OUT OTHER THAN TO REITERATE THAT I THINK THIS IS A TREMENDOUS MOMENT OF OPPORTUNITY THAT HAS NOT BEEN PRESENT FOR DECADES IN SYRIA.

HE RIGHTLY DESCRIBED THERE IS A COLLECTION OF GROUPS, OF ETHNIC GROUPS, OF SECTARIAN GROUPS THAT ARE GOING TO WANT AND DESERVE A SAY IN THE FUTURE OF HOW SYRIA IS DIFFERENT.

THERE IS A SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION ON THE BOOKS FROM 2015 THAT TALKS ABOUT INCLUSIVE GOVERNANCE FOR SYRIA, INCLUSIVE OF ALL THE VARIOUS COMMUNITIES THAT MAKE UP THE SYRIAN STATE.

WE THINK ALL THOSE COMMUNITIES SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN HOW THE STATE IS GOVERNED GOING FORWARD.

WE HAVE OUR CLOSE PARTNERS.

WE WILL BE WATCHING OUT FOR THEIR INTERESTS.

THERE ARE OTHER OUTSIDE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE PLAYED A ROLE THROUGHOUT THIS CONFLICT.

BUT, I DO WANT TO UNDERSCORE ONE THING THAT YOU SAID JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE QUESTION, WHICH IS THE PRIMARY BACKERS OF ASSAD, THE RUSSIANS AND THE IRANIANS THEM OVER COMPLETELY CAUGHT OFF GUARD BY THIS.

THAT WASN'T JUST A MISTAKE AND IT WASN'T AN ACCIDENT WITH REGARD TO SYRIA.

IT WAS THE RESULT OF POLICIES THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION AND OUR PARTNERS PURSUED IN OTHER PLACES.

VIS-@-VIS THE RUSSIANS IN THEIR WAR AGAINST UKRAINE, WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN BADLY WEEKEND TO THE STATE THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO COME TO THE AID OF ASSAD WHEN HE NEEDS TO THEM IN HIS TIME OF PERIL INTO THE IRANIANS AS A RESULT OF THE STRATEGIC ERROR THEY MADE POST-OCTOBER 7th TWO WAGE CONFLICT THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE EAST HAVE BEEN DIMINISHED BOTH THEY AND THEIR PROXY, HEZBOLLAH.

THAT LEFT THEM UNABLE TO COME TO ASSAD'S AID.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IS NOT LOST, THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THIS TOOK PLACE, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THESE GROUPS THAT OVERTHREW ASSAD.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT IT BUT THOSE.

RUSSIA CLEARLY HAS DEMONSTRATED IT CAN'T FIGHT TWO WARS OR A WAR IN UKRAINE AND A RESCUE OPERATION IN SYRIA.

THAT IS A BIG, SERIOUS STATEMENT ABOUT RUSSIA'S CAPABILITIES RIGHT NOW, ISN'T IT?

>> IT IS A GOOD QUESTION FOR YOU TO ASK YOUR NEXT RUSSIAN INTERVIEW SUBJECT WHEN YOU HAVE THEM ON YOUR SHOW.

>> FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, YOU ARE TRYING TO PROP UP THE PEOPLE WHO RUSSIA ARE ATTACKING.

>> WE HAVE BEEN QUITE CLEAR THROUGHOUT THE CONFLICT IN UKRAINE THAT WHEN IT COMES TO PARTNERING WITH RUSSIA, WHEN IT COMES TO WORKING WITH RUSSIA, THE CONFLICT IN UKRAINE HAS SHOWN WHAT KIND OF A SECURITY PARTNER RUSSIA CAN BE TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

ITS EFFECTIVENESS ON THE BATTLEFIELD WAS NOT WHAT OTHERS EXPECTED IT TO BE, INCLUDING MANY PEOPLE WILL IT MEANT INSIDE OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, WHO EXPECTED RUSSIA TO RUN ROUGHSHOD OVER THE UKRAINIANS.

BECAUSE OF THEIR BRAVELY AND FAINTLY BECAUSE OF MANY PEOPLE OVERESTIMATING THE STRENGTH OF THE RUSSIAN ARMY, UKRAINE HAS PERFORMED FAR BETTER THAN ANYBODY HAD A RIGHT TO EXPECT.

THAT INFLUENCES RUSSIA'S OTHER RELATIONSHIPS, BOTH IN THIS REGION AND AROUND THE WORLD.

NOW WE HAVE ANOTHER DATA POINT.

A CLOSE RUSSIAN FRIEND, ONE OF ITS ONLY REAL PARTNERS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, HAS JUST BEEN TOPPLED WITHOUT RUSSIA SO MUCH AS LIFTING A FINGER TO PROVIDE HELP.

THAT IS A SIGNAL THAT WILL BE SENT IN THIS REGION AND BEYOND.

>> THEY DID EXTRACT ASSAD.

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THAT.

WE CAN SAVE THAT FOR ANOTHER DAY.

PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP HAS SAID, IN A STATEMENT THAT SYRIA IS A MESS, IT IS NOT OUR FRIEND, THE UNITED STATES SHOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, LET IT PLAY OUT, DO NOT GET INVOLVED.

I'M ASSUMING YOU AGREE WITH THAT.

THERE IS NO U.S. PLAN TO GET INVOLVED ON THE GROUND IN SYRIA, RIGHT?

YOU ARE THERE.

YOU'VE GOT HUNDREDS OF TROOPS THERE.

WILL THEY STAY?

>> THAT IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

THE UNITED STATES IS ON THE GROUND IN SYRIA FOR ONE PURPOSE AND THAT IS TO FIGHT ISIS, WHICH POSES SIGNIFICANT THREATS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND TO PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT MISSION CONTINUES.

TO CONTINUE TO BE U.S.

FORCES EFFECTIVELY SUPPRESSING THE THREAT FROM ISIS AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO PRIORITIZE THAT.

BEYOND THAT, YOU WILL NOT SEE U.S.

FORCES GET INVOLVED IN THE FIGHTING IN SYRIA.

>> I WANT TO ASK ONE QUESTION WHILE I HAVE YOU.

OBVIOUSLY THE UNITED STATES IS TRYING TO GET A CEASE-FIRE PRESUMABLY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS TO END THE FIGHTING IN GAZA.

DOES THAT SEEM MORE OR LESS LIKELY NOW AND DO YOU APPROVE OF ISRAEL HAVING GONE IN AND BASICALLY TAKEN OVER UNDER THE ORDERS OF PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU THE MILITARY HAS TAKEN THE BUFFER ZONE BETWEEN SYRIA AND ISRAEL, IS THAT A LONG-TERM THING?

>> ON GAZA, PRESIDENT BIDEN AND OTHER U.S. OFFICIALS HAVE QUITE CLEAR THAT WE BELIEVE THE CEASE- FIRE THAT WE HELPED ACHIEVE IN LEBANON BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HEZBOLLAH, AGREEING WITH US TO CONDUCT A CEASE-FIRE, THAT SHOULD GIVE MOMENTUM AND THAT WE ARE GOING TO PUT MORE ENERGY INTO TRYING TO ACHIEVE A CEASE- FIRE IN GAZA.

THAT PROCESS IS UNDERWAY.

I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND DESCRIBE THE INTRICACIES OF THE NEGOTIATIONS IN PUBLIC.

WE VERY MUCH BELIEVE A CEASE- FIRE IS POSSIBLE AND IT IS A HUGE PRIORITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION TO TRY TO ACHIEVE ONE, NOT LEAST BECAUSE IT WILL GET THE HOSTAGES HOME WHO HAVE BEEN IN THIS HORRIFIC CONDITION FOR FAR TOO LONG.

IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED ALONG ISRAEL'S BORDER WITH SYRIA, IT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED BY ISRAELI OFFICIALS AS A "TEMPORARY MEASURE" AND I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

>> ONE MUST QUESTION, BECAUSE ANOTHER BIG LOSER IS IRAN, RIGHT, BUT IF ALL OF ASSAD .

AMERICANS BELIEVE THAT ASSAD HAD FOR THIS WAR AND YOU WERE TRAINING, ACCORDING TO REPORTS, TO HOLD ASSAD AWAY FROM IRAN, TO ENTICE THEM AWAY FROM IRAN.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THE FALLOUT OF THE FACT THAT HE HAS PROBLEM?

DOES IT MEAN THAT YOU OR THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION WILL TRY TO GO INTO A NUCLEAR DEAL OR WHAT?

OR, LET THEM WITHER ON THE VINE OR LET ISRAEL ATTACK THEIR NUCLEAR FACILITIES?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN THERE?

>> YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE ASSAD WHICH HE HAD BECOME A RUSSIAN IRANIAN JOINT VENTURE INSIDE SYRIA.

BOTH OF THOSE JOINT VENTURE PARTNERS WERE NO LONGER ABLE TO PROVIDE THE SUPPORT THAT ENERGY NEEDED IN ORDER TO SURVIVE AND THAT IS A BIG PART OF WHY IT IS NO LONGER IN POWER.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST LOSS THAT IRAN HAS SUFFERED OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

IT HAS HAD TWO OF ITS KEY PROXIES, HAMAS AND HEZBOLLAH, BADLY DIMINISHED.

ITS OWN ATTEMPTS TO STRIKE ISRAEL WITH THE BALLISTIC MISSILES WERE DEFEATED IN LARGE PART BECAUSE OF THE SUPPORT OF THE UNITED STATES ALONGSIDE THE IDF IN DEFENDING ISRAEL FROM THOSE THREATS.

THIS IS NOT A MOMENT OF STRENGTH FOR IRAN AND WHAT THE IMPLICATIONS ARE OF THAT, I WILL LET OTHERS SPECULATE ABOUT.

THAT IS FRANKLY A RESULT OF WORK BY THE UNITED STATES AND OUR PARTNERS OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR THAT HAS BROUGHT US TO THAT MOMENT.

>> JOHN FINER, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FROM THE WHITE HOUSE ON THIS DAY.

>>> FOR MANY SYRIANS, THIS IS A TIME OF HOPE, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHOSE LOVED ONES WERE LOCKED UP IMAGING.

MANY AWAIT THEIR FATE.

AMONG THEM, AND AMERICAN FAMILY AS WELL.

FOR 12 YEARS, AND JOURNALISTS AUSTIN TICE HAS BEEN MISSING IN SYRIA, BELIEVED TO BE ARRESTED BY THE ASSAD REGIME.

HIS FAMILY BELIEVES HE IS A LIFE AND HERE IS PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST SHORTLY AFTER THE REBELS TOOK DAMASCUS.

>> WE ARE MINDFUL, WE ARE MINDFUL THERE ARE AMERICANS IN SYRIA, INCLUDING THOSE WHO RESIDE THERE, AS WELL AS AUSTIN TICE , WHO WAS TAKEN CAPTIVE MORE THAN 12 YEARS AGO.

WE REMAIN COMMITTED TO RETURNING HIM TO HIS FAMILY.

>> AS PRESENCE ACROSS SYRIA EMPTY, THE FAMILY OF AUSTIN TICE ARE OPTIMISTIC AND I AM JOINED BY AUSTIN TICE'S SISTER ABBY AND HIS BROTHER JACOB.

ABBY AND JACOB, WELCOME .

I SEE THE T-SHIRTS YOU ARE WEARING.

I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR MOTHER, FOR INSTANCE, HAS SAID THAT HE IS ALIVE AND HE IS BEING WELL TREATED.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

WE HAVE HEARD FROM SOURCES THAT HAVE BEEN VETTED BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT AUSTIN IS A LIFE AND HE HAS BEEN WELL TAKEN CARE OF.

THOSE REPORTS ARE RECENT, THEY ARE FRESH, AND WE HAVE EVERY CONFIDENCE THEY ARE ACCURATE.

>> ABBY, HOW ARE YOU FEELING?

>> OF COURSE, WE HAVE LOTS OF MIXED EMOTIONS BEING HERE.

THIS IS THE FIRST AND OUR WHOLE FAMILY HAS BEEN TOGETHER IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND THAT IT HAPPENS TO BE OVER THIS WEEKEND WHERE ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON IS JUST INCREDIBLE AND STRESSFUL AND HOPEFUL AND EVERY EMOTION YOU CAN IMAGINE.

>> HOW HAVE YOU BOTH BEEN COPING, AND YOUR MOTHER?

I INTERVIEWED YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

AND EVERYBODY, CERTAINLY THE JOURNALISTIC COMMUNITY, HAVE BEEN HOPING AND BACKING AND ACTIVATING AND HOPEFULLY THAT HE WILL BE RELEASED.

HOW HAVE YOU MANAGED TO COPE?

I WANT BOTH OF YOU TO TELL ME HOW, AS A FAMILY, YOU HAVE COPED WITH THIS UNCERTAINTY?

>> I MEAN, YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A CHOICE.

THIS IS OUR BROTHER.

WE ARE NEVER GOING TO GIVE UP.

WE ARE NEVER GOING TO START STOP FIGHTING FOR HIM TO COME HOME.

IT HAS BEEN A LONG JOURNEY.

I WILL SAY, MY MOM AND MY DAD HAVE REALLY TAKEN THE LEAD AND THEY HAVE PROTECTED US FROM A LOT OF WHAT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH IN THIS LAST 12 YEARS.

IT HAS DEFINITELY BEEN DIFFICULT TO COPE WITH WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON.

>> JACOB, FOR YOU PERSONALLY?

>> FOR ME PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE EVERY DAY IS A DAY THAT AUSTIN SHOULD BE RELEASED AND A DAY THAT AUSTIN COULD BE RELEASED.

I THINK THINKING ABOUT IT RATHER THAN IN TERMS OF YEARS SPENT FOUR MONTHS SPENT, THAT I HAVE TAKEN EVERY DAY IS ITS OWN DAY, A DAY THAT AUSTIN COULD BE RELEASED AND A DAY THAT AUSTIN SHOULD BE RELEASED AND THAT IS THE HOPE AND OPTIMISM I HAVE LIVED IN.

WE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF BRINGING HIM HOME.

WE, THE UNITED STATES, ARE CAPABLE OF BRINGING AUSTIN HOME AND WE HAVE HEARD PRESIDENTS, PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE PRESIDENTS TALK ABOUT THEIR COMMITMENT TO BRINGING AUSTIN HOME AND THOSE WORDS ARE COMFORTING AND KNOWING THAT TODAY AND EVERY DAY COULD BE THE DAY THAT HE IS RELEASED IS A SOURCE OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM FOR ME.

>> JACOB, LET ME JUST ASK YOU, BECAUSE TELL PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW AUSTIN TICE.

HE WENT TO SYRIA TO COVER THE WAR .

I THINK HE WAS TRYING TO DRAG YOU ALONG WITH HIM.

HOW DID IT COME TO BE THAT HE WENT TO SYRIA?

>> AUSTIN HAS AN ADVENTUROUS SPIRIT AND A PASSION FOR SHEDDING LIGHT IN PLACES THAT WHERE LIGHT IS DIFFICULT TO REACH.

AND, IT WAS THROUGH THOSE, UNDER THOSE PRINCIPLES THAT HE WENT TO SYRIA.

I THINK YOU REACHED OUT TO ME AND ASKED ME IF I WANTED TO COME TO HELP JOIN HIM IN THAT ADVENTURE, TO SHARE THAT ADVENTURE WITH HIM.

I WAS IN A DIFFERENT PART OF MY LIFE.

I HAVE CHANGED SO MUCH OVER THE INTERVENING 12 YEARS.

ALL I WANT NOW, OUR FAMILY WANTS NOW IS TO BE REUNITED WITH HIM, TO BRING HIM HOME, TO TELL HIM ABOUT OUR FAMILY, INTRODUCE HIM TO HIS NIECES AND NEPHEWS.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT MOST OF ALL.

>> YEAH, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE 2012.

THAT IS FOR SURE.

THERE ARE SO TANTALIZING BITS OF INFORMATION THAT THE GOVERNMENT SEEMS TO THINK THAT THEY HAVE IF NOT ELITE, AT LEAST SOME WAY OF KNOWING THAT HE IS ALIVE.

I'M GOING TO QUOTE THIS FROM JAKE SULLIVAN, THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, WHO SAID TO "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" TODAY, "THIS IS A TOP EQUITY FOR US TO FIND AUSTIN TICE TO LOCATE THE PRISON WHERE HE MAY BE ABLE TO GET HIM HOME SAFELY TO HIS FAMILY. "

I BELIEVE YOU WERE TOLD IN 2022 PRESIDENT BIDEN HE KNOWS WITH CERTAINTY THAT AUSTIN WAS BEING HELD BY THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT.

THE GOVERNMENT, AS YOU ALL KNOW, HAVE NOT PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT.

ABBY, I WONDER WHETHER YOU HAVE ANY MORE DETAIL ON WHAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT KNOWS, BECAUSE THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT HASN'T PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED IT.

>> WE DO KNOW THAT GOVERNMENT KNOWS THAT HE IS ALIVE AND HE IS IN SYRIA.

SO, WE ARE HOPING THAT, SINCE THEY ARE SAYING THIS IS A TOP PRIORITY, THAT THEY TRULY MAKE IT ONE AND THAT THEY USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO BRING HIM HOME.

YES, WE DO KNOW THAT THEY KNOW THAT HE IS ALIVE AND HE IS THERE.

>> JACOB, YOU SORT OF ALLUDED TO VARIOUS PRESIDENTS BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN THREE IN OFFICE AND MAYBE ANOTHER ONE, IF HE'S NOT RELEASED BEFORE THE NEXT INAUGURATION, THERE WILL BE FOUR PRESIDENTS, TWO OF THEM THE SAME ONE.

WHAT SORT OF, HOW HAVE YOU DEALT WITH EACH ADMINISTRATION?

HOW HAVE THEY DEALT WITH YOU?

DO YOU FEEL HURT DO YOU FEEL IT IS A PRIORITY?

>> WE CAN, WE AS SIBLINGS HAVE REALLY LET OUR MOM BE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT ON THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

LIKE ABBY MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE BEEN SOMEWHAT INSULATED FROM THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

I WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE HEARD REPEATEDLY FROM ALL THOSE ADMINISTRATIONS, HOW IMPORTANT AUSTIN'S CASE IS TO THEM, HOW THEY ARE MAKING EVERY EFFORT, HOW THEIR THOUGHTS ARE ALWAYS WITH HIM, HOW EVERY CONVERSATION THAT THEY HAVE ABOUT THE REGION INCLUDES AUSTIN TICE AND WE BELIEVE THAT NOW IS THE MOMENT TO ACT ON THOSE CONVERSATIONS, TO TAKE THE APPROPRIATE ACTIONS TO BRING HIM HOME.

THIS IS A SINGULAR MOMENT IN THE REGION.

THIS IS A UNIQUE AND MOMENTOUS TIME FOR SYRIA AND IT IS A MOMENT IN WHICH THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO BRING AUSTIN HOME AND WE IMPLORE BOTH OUR GOVERNMENT AND ANYONE ON THE GROUND TO HELP AUSTIN GET HOME, TO FIND HIM, TO SECURE HIM AND TO BRING HIM HOME.

>> ABBY, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HAVE BEEN ALSO STAYING UP TO DATE WITH ALL THE IMAGES OF DESPERATE SYRIANS GOING TO THE NOTORIOUS PRESENCE THERE, ESSENTIALLY THE GULAG SYSTEM TO TRY TO SEE IF THEY COULD FIND LOVED ONES AND WHO THEY HAVEN'T HEARD FROM IN DECADES.

HAVE YOU BEEN KEEPING UP TO DATE WITH THAT, DO YOU THINK AUSTIN MIGHT BE IN ONE OF THOSE?

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN KEEPING UP TO DATE AND THE IMAGES ARE JUST ABSOLUTELY, INCREDIBLY SAD BUT ALSO HOPEFUL BECAUSE THESE FAMILIES ARE BEING REUNITED.

WHAT I CAN SPEAK TO IS THAT SEEING THESE FAMILIES REUNITED DOES GIVE US HOPE THAT THAT CAN ALSO BE WHAT HAPPENS FOR OUR FAMILY.

WE KNOW THAT HE IS THERE.

SO, IT IS POSSIBLE AND WE WANT THAT FOR OUR FAMILY AS WELL.

>> AND, JUST TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE BROADLY, IF YOU CAN JACOB, ABOUT THE WORK OF JOURNALISM.

AUSTIN WENT THERE TOO, I GUESS TRY TO MAKE HIS NAME, TELLING THE STORY ABOUT PEOPLE WHO JUST WANTED TO BUT EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD ONCE, RIGHT, DIGNITY, FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, BREAD ON THE PEOPLE, FAMILIES TO RAISE.

THIS IS WHAT THEY GOT IN RETURN.

JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN ATTACKED THROUGHOUT THE LAST FEW YEARS.

A TERRIBLE TOLL OVER THE LAST YEAR, PARTICULARLY JOURNALISTS IN GAZA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PROFESSION THAT HE CHOSE AND THE DANGERS?

>> I AM SO MOVED BY THE ACTIONS OF HIS COLLEAGUES OVER THE PAST 12 YEARS.

WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREDIBLE FRATERNITY OF JOURNALISM, OF JOURNALISTS AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT AUSTIN'S CASE, WHO ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT HELPING OUR FAMILY, PROVIDING AVENUES OF ACTIVISM FOR US TO TAKE, FOR US TO REACH PEOPLE WITH AGENCY IN THESE SORTS OF MATTERS.

IT HAS BEEN SO MOVING TO HAVE THAT INSTANT UNDERSTANDING THAT WHAT AUSTIN WAS DOING WAS IMPORTANT, THAT THE WORK OF JOURNALISTS AROUND THE WORLD IS IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY IN PLACES OF CONFLICT, IN PLACES WHERE A BEET JOURNALIST MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GO, WHERE THE NEWS IS HARD TO COME BY.

TO HAVE JOURNALISTS IN THOSE PLACES SHARING THOSE STORIES, SPREADING THAT LIGHT IS SO CRITICAL.

WE HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT SYMPATHY AND SUPPORT AND PASSION FOR AUSTIN'S CONS AND THAT IS SO MOVING TO US AND SO IMPORTANT TO US.

>> HONESTLY, WE WISH YOU ALL THE BEST.

I SPOKE TO YOUR PARENTS 12 YEARS AGO, JUST SHORTLY AFTER AUSTIN WENT MISSING.

I KNOW HOW YOU HAVE BEEN KEEPING THIS IN THE PUBLIC EYE AND AT THIS TIME, WE HOPE FOR YOU THAT YOU GET YOUR LOVED ONE BACK, JUST LIKE WE HOPE THE SAME FOR ALL THOSE SYRIANS WHO DESERVE A BETTER FUTURE.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS COMING UP EVER NEED, JUST GO TO OUR NEWSLETTER, AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.