Syrian Artist Mohamad Hafez on Art, Exile and the Fall of Assad

>>> NEXT, ANOTHER CREATOR TAKING INSPIRATION FROM THEIR HOME COUNTRY, THIS SIM SYRIA.

MOHAMAD HAFEZ KREETSS REPLICAS OF DAMASCUS, CAPTURING THE BEAUTY OF THE CITY IN INTRICATE 3D MODELS.

LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE 2003, HE'S HAD TO CHANNEL HIS HOMESICKNESS AND HIS ANGUISH OVER THE DEVASTATING CIVIL WAR INTO HIS WORK.

NOW WITH BASHAR AL ASSAD GONE, HE ASKED ABOUT HIS HOPES FOR THIS MOMENT AND HOW ART HAS HELPED HIM COPE.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO YOU WERE BORN IN SYRIA.

YOU SPENT SOME TIME OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

YOU'VE BEEN IN THE STATES FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BEAUTIFUL WORK.

BEFORE WE DO, THE EVENTS OF THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS HAVE BEEN SO MOMENTOUS, SO OVERWHELMING, THINGS HAVE HAPPENED SO QUICKLY.

CAN I JUST ASK HOW YOU'VE BEEN EXPERIENCING ALL OF THIS?

>> I'M NOT SURE I HAVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER OF HOW I AM EXPERIENCING ALL OF THIS OR ANY OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS.

IT HAS BEEN INDOCTRINATED FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE IN MY HEAD TO THINK A CERTAIN WAY AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, EVERYTHING IS UP FOR GRABS.

SO I'M HAPPY FROM THE INSIDE.

I'M VERY HAPPY.

VERY OPTIMISTIC BUT ALSO VERY CAUTIOUS OF WHAT IS TO COME AND WE'RE A BIT CONCERNED OVER THE SECURITY OF THE COUNTRY AND THE LOOTING AND EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE STARTED SEEING.

SO IT'S A BIT CONCERNING.

OVERALL, JOYOUS.

OVERALL, OPTIMISTIC, OVERALL, DRIVEN, SCARED, FEELING A RUSH OF LOVE, FEELING A HUGE.

A GRATEFULNESS THAT I HAVE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO WITNESS THIS.

>> SO LET ME GO BACK.

YOU WERE BORN IN DAMASCUS.

I UNDERSTAND YOU GREW UP SOME YEARS IN SAUDI ARABIA.

THEN YOU WENT BACK TO SYRIA WHEN YOU WERE A TEENAGER, AROUND 15.

IS THAT WHEN YOU REALLY STARTED TO KIND OF SEE THE CITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

GROWING UP IN SAUDI ARABIA WAS A GREAT CHILDHOOD.

WE KIND OF GREW UP IN A BUBBLE.

IN A COMPOUND FOR PHYSICIAN FAMILIES.

MY DAD WAS A PHYSICIAN THERE.

WE LEFT WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER TRYING TO FIND MY ROOTS.

IN 1999.

AND I WENT FROM A PRIVATE, VERY UPSCALE ACADEMY, TO THE SYRIAN REGIME HIGH SCHOOL SYSTEM WHERE I MYSELF WORE A MILITARY UNIFORM AND WAS SHOVED WITH FIVE PEOPLE ON A PLANK OF WOOD THEY CALLED THE DESK, AND WITH 50 PEOPLE TOTAL IN THE CLASSROOM.

THE TEACHERS YELLING AND SPEWING OUT RHETORIC.

BUT ALSO, GOING OUT TO THE STREETS OF DAMASCUS RIGHT AFTER THAT AND WALKING THE STREETS AND SEEING MOSQUES RIGHT NEXT TO CHURCHES, NEXT TO SYNAGOGUES, NEXT TO NUDE SCULPTURES.

A WOMAN IN A HIJAB AND THEN MOVING TO A DIFFERENT AESTHETIC.

AND I'M SEEING, WHAT IS THIS PLACE?

WHAT IS THIS COEXISTENCE?

AND THE CHURCHES WOULD GO OFF.

BELLS, AND THE CALL AND THE MERCHANTS IN THE STREET.

SO I IMMEDIATELY GOT INFATUATED WITH THAT.

I SAID, OKAY, THAT'S MY ROOTS.

THIS IS WHERE I'M FROM.

AND IT CHANGED MY ENTIRE LIFE.

SO I WASN'T THE TEENAGER THAT WAS INTERESTED IN SPORTS OR KICKING A BALL OR ANYTHING.

I WAS A TEENAGER WITH MY SKETCH BOOK IN THE STREETS OF OLD DAMASCUS JUST TAKING IT ALL IN.

>> IS THAT WHERE YOU FELL IN LOVE WITH ARCHITECTURE?

THE IDEA OF A PHYSICAL PLACE AND WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW MUCH IT CARRIES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ARCHITECTURE IS A WAY TO TELL STORIES.

IT'S AN OLD BOOK THAT YOU WALK THROUGH.

THE FOOT PRINT OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE PHYSICAL REALM.

>> IT REALLY IS A CRADLE OF CIVILIZATION.

IT REALLY IS A PLACE THAT CONTAINS THE CENTURIES WITHIN IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

DOORS TELL STORIES.

THERE ARE DOOR KNOBS IN SYRIA THAT ARE OLDER THAN SOME COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.

>> SO IN 2003, YOU MOVED TO THE U.S. TO STUDY ARCHITECTURE.

AT SOME POINT YOU REALIZED THAT YOU HAVE A SINGLE ENTRY VISA.

DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO TAKE IN THAT REALIZATION?

>> OF COURSE I REMEMBER.

I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT DAY.

A FRIEND OF MAIN HAD POINTED OUT THE MANY ENTRIES ALLOWED ON TH VISA.

I HAVE A STUDENT VISA.

I MUST BE ALLOWED TO COME AND GO.

CHECK HOW MANY.

DOES IT HAVE AN "S" OR "M"?

"S" IS FOR SINGLE.

AND SURE ENOUGH, IT SAID SINGLE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

HE SAID, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK HOME AND APPLY ALL OVER AGAIN FOR THE SAME VISA AND WAIT ALL OVER AGAIN.

YOU HAVE TO REALIZE, WE'RE A SYRIAN FAMILY THAT SENT PEOPLE TO STUDY IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE 1985.

MY SECURITY BACKGROUND CHECK TOOK A YEAR AND A HALF IN DAMASCUS.

NONE OF THAT MATTERED.

ALL THAT MATTERED IS THAT THIS GUY IS A MUSLIM, SYRIAN, SUDDEN YOU SAURKSD THE BUSH ERA, POST 9/11.

S, S, S, S ON THE PASSPORT.

SO I IMMEDIATELY LEARNED, I'M NOT MESSING WITH THESE PEOPLE.

I'M NOT GOING HOME.

AND SURE AS HECK, THE TRAVEL BAN AS WE KNOW IT TODAY, EXISTED BACK THEN BUT NOBODY KNEW ABOUT IT.

BUT IT FORCED US, THOSE STUDENTS, YOUNG STUDENTS, TO REGISTER WITH THE FBI EVERY TIME THEY LEFT THE CITY.

EVERY TIME WE PLANNED TO GO FROM IOWA TO CHICAGO TO VISIT.

>> THEN 2011 IS WHEN THE MASS PROTESTS STARTED AND THEN THE CIVIL WAR AS WE KNOW IT NOW.

THE CIVIL WAR STARTED.

AND THEN AGAIN, YOU REALIZE THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK.

DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THAT FELT LIKE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WAS A YOUNG ARCHITECT.

I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH AND I OWE THEM THIS FOR THE AMAZING GROUP OF ARCHITECTS AND MY BOSS JONATHAN TRUSTED ME AS AN ARCHITECT AND GAVE ME SO MUCH TRUST TO LEAD HUGE PROJECTS AT A VERY YOUNG AGE.

HE SAID ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU'RE GOING TO GO PITCH A PROJECT IN BEIRUT.

THANK YOU.

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING ABOUT ME.

MY VISA IS A SINGLE VISA.

YOU SEND ME TO BEIRUT.

I HAVE TO GO TO DAMASCUS TO STAMP MY VISA AT THE EMBASSY AND I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO RUN MY SECURITY BACKGROUND CHECK.

IT TAKES YEARS.

I THINK, I THINK MY BOSSES DID NOT EVEN REALIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON.

HE'LL HAVE LAWYERS.

GO, GO.

WE PITCHED THE PROJECT IN BEIRUT.

AND I GO TO DAMASCUS AS AN AFTERMATH TO GO STAMP MY VISA.

AND THAT WAS MAY, 2011, THAT I HAD STARTED.

WE LOOKED AT IT.

AND I EVEN WAS PART OF A PROTEST THAT ERUPTED ON A FRIDAY WHEN I PRAYED IN DAMASCUS.

I WAS LIVING THAT.

I WAS SO JOYOUS.

I WAS SO HOMESICK THAT I WAS WALKING IN THE STREETS OF DAMASCUS RECORDING PEOPLE TALKING.

RECORDING THE CALLS TO PRAYERS IN SECRET.

AND PEOPLE WERE LIKE, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

I WANTED TO SHOW IT.

I REALIZED, I HAD A NASTY FEELING THAT THIS IS A GIFT FROM GOD, MOHAMED.

TAKE IT ALL IN.

YOU'RE NOT SEEING THIS EVER AGAIN.

I REALLY HAD THIS FEELING INSIDE ME.

THIS IS YOUR LAST TIME.

AND THESE ARE THE RECORDINGS THAT LATER ON I BY CHANCE REMEMBERED THAT I HAD AND I STARTED USING THEM IN MY ARTWORK.

SO WHEN YOU'RE INSIDE THE MINIATURE, YOU WILL HEAR ALL OF A SUDDEN THE CALL TO PRAYER AND THE KIDS RUNNING AROUND, AND THE MERCHANTS.

WHAT I REALIZED WAS I HAD CAPTURED A MOMENT OF PEACE THAT NO LONGER EXISTED WHEN THE ARTWORK CAME OUT TO THE WORLD.

♪ ♪ >> HOW DID THE ARTWORK START?

HOW DID THE ARTWORK BEGIN?

YOU'RE AN ARCHITECT.

YOU'RE IN CHARGE OF, YOU KNOW, HUGE, YOU KNOW, MULTIMILLION-DOLLAR PROJECTS.

SO HOW DID THE ARTWORK START?

>> IT STARTED MY FIRST YEAR IN COLLEGE.

I'LL NEVER SEE DAMASCUS AGAIN.

AND I WAS SO HOMESICK.

SO THIS WAS 2003.

THIS WAS WELL BEFORE -- THIS WAS THE GOLDEN NEW ERA OF DAMASCUS WHERE WE'RE OPENING UP TO THE WORLD.

CELL PHONES, THE INTERNET.

MY FAMILY IS GATHERING WITHOUT ME.

ALL THREE SIBLINGS AND MY TWO PARENTS.

WEDDINGS, THE BIRTH OF MY NEPHEWS AND NIECES.

I'M SO HOMESICK.

I SAID STOP WHINING.

IF YOU CAN'T GO TO DAMASCUS, MAKE DAMASCUS.

AS AN ARCHITECT STUDENT WITH TOOLS OF MODEL MAKING TOOL, I STARTED PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER.

AND I REMEMBER MY FIRST ONE, I LOOKED AT THE CLOCK AND LATER I WAS LIKE, I JUST SPENT TEN STRAIGHT HOURS ON THIS.

IT FELT, IT FELT -- I STARTED IN SECRET DOING THESE THINGS ALONGSIDE MY STUDYING.

MY CAREER.

BY DUMB LUCK OVER THE LAST 24 YEARS, I HAD BEEN IN AMERICA, MY ARTWORK EVOLVED IN STAGES THAT REFLECTED LITERALLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE GROUND AND WHAT I WAS FEELING.

I WENT FROM A NOSTALGIC, MY EARLIER WORK OF VERY PRISTINE, NOSTALGIC REPRODUCTIONS OF OLD DAMASCUS TO THE INVASION OF IRAQ, WHAT WE SAW, TO FAST FORWARD TO SYRIAN UPRISING, THE ARAB SPRING.

ALL OF THAT, I HAVE ARTWORK THAT RESEMBLED THIS THAT WAS BUILT IN SECRET.

>> WHAT IS IT TO YOU?

>> WE NOW CALL IT ART THERAPY OR CATHARTIC EXPRESSION.

I KNEW, WE'VE GOT TO REALIZE, YOU KNOW, ON THE DAYTIME, I WAS A CLEAN SHAVEN ARCHITECT TRYING TO PULL A CORPORATE, COMPOSED LOOK, PITCHING $200, $300 MILLION.

THE MOHAMED THAT WENT BACK EVERY DAY AND OPENING TO DESTRUCTION AND A CITY AS OLD AS DAMASCUS, BOMBED OUT OF EXISTENCE, OUT OF ALL THE LOVE RELATIONSHIP THAT I HAD GONE THROUGH WITH PLAY HOME COUNTRY.

AND I'M SEEING ALL THE HERITAGE BEING BLOWN OUT OF EXISTENCE.

YOU CAN IMAGINE THE HOT AND COLD CYCLES I WENT THROUGH DAILY.

>> HOW DID IT START THAT YOUR ART BECAME RECOGNIZED AS ART?

AT FIRST IT WAS, FORGIVE ME, IT WAS THERAPY.

A WAY TO JUST EXPRESS ALL THAT WAS INSIDE OF YOU.

WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT IT WAS ART?

WHEN DID IT BECOME RECOGNIZED BY OTHER PEOPLE AS ART?

>> IN THIS VERY STUDIO, I WOULD SPEND ENDLESS, ENDLESS NIGHTS BUILDING THESE THINGS, AND BUILDING AND BUILDING.

EVERY TIME I WOULD ALLOW EVERYBODY, IT GOT TO A POINT.

IT WAS 2015 OR 2016 WHEN SOMEBODY WENT INTO MY STUDIO AND SAID, THIS IS, PEOPLE NEED TO SEE THIS.

NO, NO.

THIS IS JUST FOR ME.

YOU'RE CRAZY.

THIS NEEDS TO BE SEEN.

AND I DON'T RECALL HOW THINGS HAPPENED BUT THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED SO FAST, IN LESS THAN A YEAR, I WAS WRITTEN UP IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" NEW YORKER, GUARDIAN, GLOBAL CITIZEN.

I WAS VERY, I WAS DOING SIX EXHIBITS.

WHEN I CAME TO THE WORLD I HAD A BOTT OF WORK FOR 24 YEARS THAT RESEMBLED ALL OF THESE ERAS AND IT WAS THE REFUGEE CRISIS ALL OVER AGAIN AND PEOPLE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT SYRIA AND REFUGEES IN WAYS THAT THE POLITICIANS WERE NOT ABLE TO HUMANIZE AND TALK ABOUT IT.

THEN A DOCUMENTARY CAME OUT.

AND THAT ALL HAPPENED SO FAST.

I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE EXPOSURE.

I COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT IT.

IT WAS FOR ME.

I HAD FOOD ON THE TABLE.

I WAS AN ARCHITECT.

IT WAS FOR ME.

THE MORE I WOULD PUT THE WORK OUT THERE, THE MORE MANY PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD FROM MANY WALKS OF LIFE, NOT MLG EASTERNS.

EUROPEANS, GERMANS, JEWISH PEOPLE WOULD FLOCK TO APPLY EXHIBITS AND RELATE AND RESONATE WITH THE HOMESICKNESS AND PAIN.

>> YOUR FAMILY IS STILL ALL OVER.

RIGHT?

YOUR FAMILY IS STILL SEPARATED ALL OVER THE WORLD.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE SIBLINGS WHO LIVE IN ONE PLACE.

YOU LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

CAN YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT HAD THAT EXPERIENCE OF WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE SEPARATED FROM FAMILY AND NOT SEE THEM FOR YEARS.

NOT BE ABLE TO.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT?

>> WE'RE IN DECEMBER.

WE JUST PASSED THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY.

I HATED THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY.

EVERY INCH OF MY BODY.

EVERYBODY AROUND ME IN COLLEGE AND IN MY, YOU KNOW, 25 YEARS IN AMERICA, WERE JUST, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING SELF-CONSCIOUSLY PREPARING TO BE WITH FAMILIES AROUND THE DINNER TABLES.

I WAS THAT KID THAT WOULD SIT AT HOME WITHOUT ANYWHERE TO GO, HOMESICK, WATCHING MY FAMILY, PEOPLE CLOSE TO ME GETTING MARRIED AND SO ON, AND WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO TAKE PART OF THESE SIMPLE HUMAN ACTIVITIES THAT NOURISH US AS HUMANS IN RELATIONSHIPS.

IT IS A SIMPLE RIGHT TO EVERY HUMAN AROUND THE WORLD.

WHAT CRIME DID I COMMIT TO BE, TO HAVE THAT STOLEN FROM ME?

TO HAVE THESE MINUTES OF JOY AND SORROW AND SADNESS STOLEN FROM ME?

SO FOR MANY, I COULDN'T EVEN, I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BUT I MADE ART TO MAKE SURE TO TALK ABOUT THE PAIN OF HOMESICKNESS.

SOMETIME THE WHOLE PIECE THAT I WAS MAKING, MAY MOM'S SALON AND MY MOM'S SOFA IN MY SUITCASE.

>> EACH PHASE OF IT HAS MANIFESTED IN YOUR WORK.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT THIS PHASE INSPIRES IN YOU.

DO YOU THINK YOU MIGHT GO BACK TO SYRIA AT SOME POINT?

>> I THINK TWO NIGHTS AGO, I JUST COULDN'T SLEEP.

I COULDN'T SLEEP.

I TRIED.

I FINALLY WOKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND I AM, I HAVE TO DO THIS.

I DECIDED TO GIVE AWAY ALL OF MAY ARTWORK THAT WAS BUILT IN THAT ERA TO PROPER INSTITUTIONS AND MUSEUMS TO HIGHLIGHT THAT BLACK ERA, THAT DARK ERA THAT WE WENT THROUGH, TO REMIND US OF THE SYRIAN NEVER AGAIN MOMENT.

THIS IS THE END OF AN ERA.

NO MATTER HOW TROUBLESOME.

NO MATTER HOW PESSIMISTIC, OPTIMISTIC.

THERE IS NOTHING WORSE COMING OR WORTH FEARING THAN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AS SYRIAN PEOPLE UNDER THAT REGIME.

THE WHOLE WORLD CAN AGREE THAT THIS IS AN ERA THAT WILL NEVER COME BACK.

WE CAN GO THROUGH TURMOIL TO REBUILD AND STAND ON OUR FEET.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

BUT WE HAVE AS COLLECTIVE ARTISTS TO SAY THIS HAS FINISHED.

TO TEACH OURSELVES.

TO DREAM.

I NEED TO PUT A LINE IN THE SAND TO SAY NOW, MOHAMED, YOU CAN GO BACK.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

THE WOMAN THAT I'VE BEEN DOING THE IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE WORK, IT HAS A NEW DIMENSION WHERE I'M SAYING YOUR WORK HAS TO GO TO INSTITUTIONS TO EDUCATE WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

GROW ON IT.

LEARN THE MISTAKES AND BUILD THE SOCIETY TOGETHER.

I HAVE, I'M VERY, I'M EAGER THINKING TO MYSELF, HOW DID THE GERMANS DO IT?

HOW DID THEY COME TOGETHER?

HOW DID MANY NATIONS THAT WENT THROUGH THIS COME TOGETHER AND FORGIVE AND FORGET WHILE LEARNING.

SO WITH THAT INITIATIVE, I HOPE MANY ARTIST CREATIVES OF SYRIA WILL COME TOGETHER AND PUT THAT LINE IN THE SAND AND SAY, LISTEN, RIGHT NOW IT'S A DARK MOMENT.

WE UNDERSTAND.

BUT THE TIME WILL COME WHERE WE WILL HAVE OUR OWN INSTITUTIONS AND IT'S TIME TO REBUILD THE NEW GENERATION.

>> MOHAMAD HAFEZ.

IT'S BEEN A DELIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

GOD BLESS.