Why Teens Are Checking Out of School — and How to Bring Them Back

>>> NOW, ARE WE PREPARING YOUNG PEOPLE FOR OUR RAPIDLY CHANGING WORLD?

IN AN AGE OF ADVANCED ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, CLIMATE CHANGE, AND POPULISM, OUR NEXT GUEST SAY WE ARE NOT TEACHING CHILDREN THE SKILLS THAT THEY NEED, NOT ONLY TO STAY ENGAGED, BUT FOR THE REALITY OF LATER LIFE.

AUTHORS JENNY ANDERSON AND REBECCA WINTHROP JOIN MICHEL MARTIN TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THE EXAMPLES AND SOLUTIONS THEY LAY OUT IN THEIR NEW BOOK, "THE DISENGAGED TEAM."

>> JENNY ANDERSON, REBECCA WINTHROP, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH THE SPIRIT >> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> JENNY, YOU HAVE BEEN A JOURNALIST FOCUSED ON EDUCATION AND THE LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

YOU HAVE DONE OTHER THINGS BUT THAT HAS BEEN ONE OF YOUR CAREER INTERESTS.

REBECCA WINTHROP, YOU ARE AN EDUCATION POLICY EXPERT.

YOU COULD A NEW BOOK WE TALK ABOUT THE DISENGAGEMENT CRISIS AMONG TEENAGERS.

WHY DO YOU SAY THERE IS A DISENGAGEMENT CRISIS?

WHAT IS THAT AND WHY DO YOU SAY THERE IS ONE?

>> STUDENT ENGAGEMENT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT FOR HOW KIDS CAN LEARN AND IT IS ESSENTIAL TO LEARNING WELL AND IT MEANS THAT KIDS DON'T JUST BEHAVIORALLY SHOW UP TO SCHOOL, IT MEANS THAT THEY COGNITIVELY ENGAGED AND THEY WILL BE START DEEPLY LEARNING ABOUT THE SUBJECTS THAT THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT IN CLASS AND IT ALSO MEANS THAT THEY ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT THEY ARE LEARNING.

ACTUALLY, HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT SCHOOL HAS A LOT TO DO WITH HOW WELL YOU DO.

WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A STUDENT DISENGAGEMENT CRISIS FOR A LONG TIME, THE LAST COUPLE DECADES.

THE U.S. CENSUS SAYS ONLY A THIRD OF KIDS ARE HIGHLY ENGAGED IN SCHOOL.

TODAY, THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING DEEPLY DISENGAGED ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN THEY WERE BEFORE.

>> PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT TEENAGERS FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL.

HOW MANY MOVIES HAVE WE SEEN THAT ARE ABOUT BOARD KIDS AND THE TEACHER WHO COMES IN TO SAVE THEM, RIGHT?

IS THIS SOMETHING NEW?

IS THERE SOMETHING NEW ABOUT THE FACT THAT A LOT OF KIDS DON'T LIKE SCHOOL?

>> THE GENRE OF THE DISAFFECTED TEEN IS A LONG AND STORIED ONE.

THERE IS A REASON WE ALL LOVE "THE BREAKFAST CLUB."

IT WAS A GREAT MOVIE.

YOU ARE CORRECT IN NOTING IT IS NOT NEW.

THE CONSEQUENCES HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.

THE SKILLS KIDS NEED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF SCHOOL ARE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY WERE EVEN 20 YEARS AGO.

20 YEARS AGO, YOU HAD A COLLEGE DEGREE, MAYBE AN INTERNSHIP OR TWO, YOU WERE PROBABLY SET UP.

TODAY, YOU NEED A WHOLE DIFFERENT SET OF SKILLS TO NAVIGATE A WORLD OF GENERATIVE AI, TO NAVIGATE POLARIZATION, TO NAVIGATE EVERYTHING WE SEE IN THE WORLD TODAY.

ANOTHER THING THAT HAS REALLY CHANGED THAT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT IS THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A GAP BETWEEN WHAT KIDS DO IN SCHOOL AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE REAL WORLD.

THAT GAP IS A COUSIN AND KIDS KNOW IT, THEY FEEL IT, THEY SEE IT IN THEIR PHONES.

THEY SEE THE WORLD CHANGING AND THEY ARE STUDYING PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR AND THEY ARE WONDERING WHY ARE WE DOING THIS AND WE ARE ASKING THEM TO PUT IN A LOT OF ENERGY TO DO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT IS PREPARING THEM FOR THE FUTURE AND THEY FEEL THAT AND IT FEEDS INTO THE ANXIETY AND YOU LAYER ON TOP OF THAT THE DESTRUCTION MACHINE, WHICH IS SOCIAL MEDIA, AND YOU HAVE A MUCH GRIMMER PORTRAIT OF HOW KIDS FEEL DURING THEIR DAYS.

>> THE SECOND QUESTION I HAVE IS IS THIS AN AMERICAN PROBLEM OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE SEEING IN COUNTRIES BEYOND THE UNITED STATES?

>> THIS IS DEFINITELY A PROBLEM WE ARE SEEING CERTAINLY ACROSS HIGH INCOME COUNTRIES, WHERE KIDS ARE INCREASINGLY LESS INTERESTED IN GOING TO SCHOOL.

THERE IS A FALLOUT ON ATTENDANCE FROM COVID-19 BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF KIDS WHO ARE IN SCHOOL PHYSICALLY, ARE ATTENDING AND HAVE DROPPED OUT OF LEARNING.

AND, JUST AS YOU SAID, IT WAS OKAY A COUPLE DECADES AGO.

YOU COULD COAST THROUGH SCHOOL, GET THE BASIC ACADEMIC REQUIREMENTS THAT MOST EMPLOYERS WERE LOOKING FOR, LITERACY, NUMERACY, MATH SKILLS, TODAY, EMPLOYERS ARE LOOKING FOR CHEAPER SKILLS.

THEY ARE LOOKING FOR COLLABORATIVE PROBLEM-SOLVING.

CREATIVE THINKING.

STRONG INTERPERSONAL CONFLICT RESOLUTION SKILLS.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS YOU CAME TO THE COAST THROUGH SCHOOL AND GET THEM.

THIS IS WHY THE DISENGAGEMENT PROBLEM IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND WE DO SEE THIS ACROSS A LOT OF THE HIGH INCOME WORLD.

>> I WANT TO ASK A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT COVID- 19.

IT WAS A WORLDWIDE PHENOMENON.

OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE HIT SOME PEOPLE WERE HIT HARDER THAN OTHERS.

THE AGE YOU ARE, WHETHER YOU HAD ACCESS TO VACCINES, WHAT POLICIES YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM UNDERTOOK TO ADDRESS IT, IS COVID AT THE ROOT OF THIS OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE?

>> IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT AT THE ROOT OF THIS.

IT MADE EVERYTHING DRAMATICALLY WORSE.

IT HAD A DEVASTATING, DEVASTATING IMPACTS ON KIDS LEARNING.

BUT, DISENGAGEMENT HAS BEEN A LONG, IT HAS BEEN AROUND WAY LONGER THAN COVID-19 AND WAY LONGER THAN SMARTPHONES, WHICH IS NOT A CONVERSATION THAT IS BEING HAD.

KIDS HAVE BEEN DISENGAGED FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

YOUR QUESTION, WHY DON'T WE CARE MORE ABOUT THIS?

YES, WHY DON'T WE.

I WANT TO REITERATE THAT, WHY DON'T WE CARE MORE ABOUT THE?

I COVERED FINANCE FOR A LONG TIME AND WE CARE A LOT ABOUT FINANCIAL MARKETS AND WE INVEST A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY INTO MEDIA ATTENTION ON IT AND WE DON'T IN LEARNING.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD QUESTION AND I THINK IT IS HOPEFULLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN FOCUS MORE ON.

THE QUALITY OF LEARNING EXPERIENCES IN SCHOOL AFFECTS WHAT THEY LEARN, HOW THEY LEARN, HOW THEY DEVELOP AS HUMANS, HOW THEY CAN COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS, HOW EMPLOYABLE THEY ARE, WHAT KIND OF HUMANS THEY BECOME AND WE SEEM TO HAVE A GENERAL APATHY OR ALMOST ACCEPTANCE THAT, I GUESS KIDS ARE GOING TO HATE SCHOOL AND THAT IS OKAY AND THAT IS NOT OKAY.

HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT SCHOOL AFFECTS HOW THEY LEARN IN SCHOOL AND WHAT KIND OF LEARNERS AND HUMANS THEY WILL BE.

I DO THINK WE NEED TO CARE MORE.

>> I KNOW YOU INTERVIEWED A REALLY BROAD CROSS-SECTION OF PEOPLE FOR THIS BOOK.

THIS DOES, I MEAN, I'M GOING TO BE HONEST, THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF WHERE I THINK PEOPLE MIGHT HEAR THIS AS MIDDLE-CLASS ANXIETY, RIGHT, HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT THIS IS AN EQUITY ISSUE.

KIDS ACROSS THE SOCIOECONOMIC SPECTRUM DISENGAGED IN ROUGHLY THE SAME NUMBERS BUT THE IMPACTS OF BEING DISENGAGED ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY FELT FOR LOW INCOME KIDS.

THIS IS BECAUSE WHEN KIDS START DISENGAGING, IT IS A LONG CONTINUUM.

THEY START SHOWING UP IN SCHOOL BUT CHECKING OUT, THEY GET FURTHER BEHIND, THEY MIGHT START, STOP DOING THEIR HOMEWORK, THEN THEY START SKIPPING SCHOOL.

KIDS WITH PARENTS WHO HAVE THE RESOURCES INTERVENE, THEY GET TUTORS, THEY CHANGE SCHOOLS, THEY GET FAMILY RALLYING AROUND THEM.

BUT, POOR KIDS DON'T GET SECOND CHANCES.

SO, THE IMPACT OF DISENGAGEMENT ARE MUCH MORE FELT FOR LOW INCOME KIDS.

>> WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT DISENGAGEMENT.

WE CAN SEE IT SHOWING UP IN CHECKING OUT, POOR GRADES, ABSENTEEISM, NOT SHOWING UP.

WHAT DOES ENGAGEMENT LOOK LIKE?

>> ENGAGEMENT IS HOW KIDS THINK, FEEL, ACT, AND INITIATE WITH THEIR LEARNING.

A LOT OF IT IS VISIBLE.

THIS IS A CHALLENGE FOR PARENTS.

WE SEE THE BEHAVIORS.

THAT IS ONE COMPONENT OF ENGAGEMENT.

EMOTIONAL ENGAGEMENT IS HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE LEARNING, COGNITIVE ENGAGEMENT IS WHETHER THEY ARE DIGGING INTO THEIR LEARNING AND THE HOLY GRAIL IS AGENTIC ENGAGEMENT, WHETHER THEY ARE TAKING ACTIONS TO MAKE THEIR LEARNING THERE IS, TO ASK THE QUESTION BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND.

THINK OF THE BRAVERY IT REQUIRES TO RAISE YOUR HAND AND ADMIT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING BUT THAT IS THE STUFF THAT IS GOING TO WORK.

IT BRINGS IT BACK TO YOU.

I WANT TO DO THIS ASSIGNMENT THIS WAY, I REALLY CARE ABOUT THIS THING.

I HAVE IDENTIFIED THIS AS A SUBJECT TO CARE ABOUT SO I WANT TO LEARN MORE.

ALL OF THAT INITIATIVE REALLY DRIVES DEEPER LEARNING.

WE WERE, A BUNCH OF TEACHERS SAID TO US, "I ALWAYS THOUGHT ENGAGEMENT WAS WHEN KIDS SHOWED UP AND DID THE WORK AND REQUIRED."

OF COURSE WE NEED BEHAVIOR MANAGEMENT IN CLASSROOMS BUT ENGAGEMENT IS A MUCH MORE ACTIVE PROCESS.

SO, PARENTS HAVE A UNIQUE ROLE THEY CAN PLAY.

TEACHERS ARE CHALLENGED BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO KEEP ORDER IN A CLASSROOM WITH A LOT OF KIDS.

AT HOME, YOU WANT TO BE ASKING THE ACTIVE QUESTIONS AND GETTING KIDS ENGAGED AND DIGGING IN AND CURIOUS.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.

THAT IS WHAT ENGAGEMENT LOOKS LIKE.

YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE IT BECAUSE KIDS BUBBLE OVER.

WHEN YOU ASK A KID HOW WAS SCHOOL TODAY AND THEY SAY FINE, THAT IS MAYBE WHEN YOU NEED TO WORRY A LITTLE BIT MORE.

>> I'M HEARING YOU TALK AND WHAT I AM THINKING ABOUT IS I AM THINKING ABOUT FINICKY PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO SAY AS A SOCIETY, WE CAN'T AFFORD THAT.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS OR BIG SCHOOLS, WE CAN'T AFFORD EVERYBODY TO HAVE A LEGAL CUSHION, TEACHER CAN'T KEEP TRACK OF 35 KIDS AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY IS ON TRACK, NOR CAN WE, THIS IS THE OTHER THING THAT COMES UP WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ENGAGEMENT, NOR CAN YOU SAY THAT GIVING KIDS AGENCY DOESN'T MEAN LETTING THEM DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

THAT EDUCATION HAS TO BE FUN.

A LOT OF PARENTS ARE LIKE IT WASN'T FUN FOR ME.

>> THERE IS A MESS OUT OF THERE THAT WE CERTAINLY FELT OUR RESEARCH.

IT IS NOT TRUE.

IF YOU GIVE KIDS A LITTLE BIT OF AGENCY, THEY ARE GOING TO GO OFF THE RAILS.

WE ACTUALLY FOUND THAT YOU CAN DO QUITE A BIT TO BOOST ENGAGEMENT AS A CLASSROOM TEACHER IN ANY TYPE OF SCHOOL.

THERE IS 20 YEARS OF RESEARCH ON THIS THAT COMPARES CLASSROOMS THE CLASSROOM IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WHEN TEACHERS SHIFT SLIGHTLY HOW THEY TALK TO KIDS, WITH MORE RESPECT, MORE OPTIONS FOR YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THREE OPTIONS FOR HOMEWORK, ASKING THEM, HEY, WE ARE STUDYING PHOTOSYNTHESIS TODAY, DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT?

AND, I WILL START WITH A LECTURE THERE.

LITTLE SHIFTS WITHOUT CHANGING CURRICULUM, WITHOUT CHANGING THE DISCIPLINE, YOU KNOW, STRATEGIES OF THE SCHOOL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR STUDENT ENGAGEMENT.

>> WHY DOES IT MAKE SUCH A BIG DIFFERENCE?

>> WHEN TEACHERS GIVE KIDS OPTIONS TO THINK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHERE THEY WANT TO START A DISCUSSION IT MEANS THINK ABOUT IT FOR A MOMENT.

IT MEANS THEY HAVE TO REFLECT, THINK ABOUT THE TOPIC, SEE WHAT IS CURIOUS OR INTERESTING TO THEM, AND PUT A QUESTION OUT THERE.

THAT VERY PROCESS, WHICH IS ONE MINUTE, TWO MINUTES, ALL OF A SUDDEN LOCKS THEM INTO THE TOPIC.

MUCH MORE THAN WHEN A STUDENT SHOWS UP AND THEY ARE IN PASSIVE MODE JUST READY TO RECEIVE INFORMATION.

THAT IS ONE EXAMPLE OF A SWITCH IN TEACHER PRACTICE THAT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

AND, THERE ARE A VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS.

ANOTHER ONE IS WHEN TEACHERS GIVE EXPLANATORY RATIONALE, IS WHAT IT IS CALLED IN THE LITERATURE, BASICALLY EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE ASSIGNING SOMETHING.

SO, SAYING, HEY, READ THIS, IT IS GOING TO BE ON THE TEST ON FRIDAY IS NOT AN EXPLANATORY RATIONALE.

THE NEXT MONETARY RATIONALE IS I AM ASSIGNING YOU THIS TEXT BECAUSE I REALLY WANT YOU TO LEARN HOW THE AUTHOR WE SEE IN STORY'S ROOM HISTORICAL SETTINGS.

I AM MAKING THIS UP.

SO, THOSE SMALL SHIFTS ACTUALLY MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR KIDS.

>> JENNY, YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE ROLE THAT PARENTS CAN PLAY IN THIS.

CAN YOU TALK MORE ABOUT THAT?

>> THEY CAN PLAY A TREMENDOUS ROLE.

THEY DON'T NEED A PHD, THEY DON'T NEED TO BE A TEACHER AND THEY DON'T NEED A LOT OF TIME.

WE ARE ALL BUSY TRYING TO GET THE LAUNDRY DONE, FOOD ON THE TABLE AND GET THE WORK DONE AND GET TO TOMORROW.

THIS IS VERY MUCH, AS REBECCA WAS EXPLAINED, THIS IS VERY MUCH A SHIFT IN THE TEENAGE YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE.

IT IS A LOT ABOUT LESS INSTRUCTIONAL, MORE INVITATIONAL.

DON'T MAKE THE PLAN FOR THEM, DON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM FOR THEM, DON'T DO THE HOMEWORK FOR THEM.

DON'T SIT THERE AND MAKE THEM TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK.

HELP THEM TO MAKE A PLAN TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK.

THE TWO KEY ISSUES THAT WE DRIVE IN ON FOR PARENTS IS THE QUALITY OF DISCUSSION, DISCUSSION IS TO ADOLESCENTS WHAT COUPLES ARE TO INFANTS.

NECESSARY FOR BRAIN DEVELOPMENT.

IT IS HOW A BRAIN IN THE ADOLESCENT YEAR IS FORMING CONNECTIONS.

TEACHERS, AS WE HAVE SAID, OR A LITTLE HAMSTRUNG IN THE CLASSROOM.

WE HAVE A LOT OF KIDS TO LOOK AFTER, A LOT OF CURRICULUM STANDARDS TO MEET, A LOT OF THINGS TO DO IN THE CLASSROOM.

PARENTS HAVE THE LUXURY OF KNOWING THE KID THAT IS SITTING IN THEIR HOUSE AND THEY HAVE KNOWN THEM FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY DO HAVE THE TIME AND AT THAT TIME IT MIGHT BE THE DINNER TABLE, TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE STUDYING, TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN SCHOOL, TO VALIDATE THE WORK THEY ARE DOING.

I KNOW YOU DISSECTED A FORK IN SCIENCE TODAY.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

DID IT MAKE YOU FEEL SICK, WAS ED KRAUSE, DID YOU SEE THE OVARIES, WHAT IT DOES LOOK LIKE?

YOU ARE COMMUNICATING THROUGH THAT THAT LEARNING MATTERS.

WHAT THEY DO ALL DAY MATTERS.

DISCUSSION AND INTEREST.

INTEREST IS THE CANVAS ON WHICH KIDS ARE DEVELOPING SKILLS.

>> REBECCA, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE INITIAL PREMISE, WHICH IS TEENAGERS.

THIS IS TOUGH ON TEENAGERS.

YOU HAVE SOME DATA IN THE BOOK WHERE YOU SUGGESTED THAT THIRD- GRADERS STILL LOVE SCHOOL, BY AND LARGE.

WHY DOES IT CHANGE OVER THE COURSE OF TIME?

WHY IS IT THAT BY THE TIME KIDS GET TO BE TEENAGERS, SO MANY OF THEM SAY THAT SCHOOL FEELS LIKE A PRISON OR THEY HATE IT WHEN THEY DON'T LIKE TO READ?

WHAT HAPPENS THERE?

>> IT IS A REALLY BIG CONCERN TO ME, TO JENNY, THAT IN THIRD GRADE, 75% OF KIDS LOVE SCHOOL AND BY 10th GRADE, IT IS FLIPPED, 25% OF KIDS LOVE SCHOOL.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THE SHIFT REALLY PICKS UP WHEN KIDS ENTER MIDDLE SCHOOL.

WHEN THEY ARE PRIMED TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STAND OUT TO FIT IN.

THEY ARE TRYING TO FIND THEIR UNIQUE GIFTS AND THEIR PLACE AND THEIR TRIBE.

THEY ARE PRIMED TO TRY TO MAKE MEANING OF THE WORLD, TO TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.

AND, SCHOOL SERVES UP A RANGE OF VERY SIDELOAD DISCIPLINE IN MULTIPLE CLASSES.

THEY DON'T HAVE ONE TEACHER TO CONNECT WITH.

A LOT OF KIDS LOSE A SENSE OF BELONGING.

THEY DON'T SEE THE CONNECTION OF WHAT THEY ARE LEARNING TO THE REAL WORLD, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ADOLESCENT DEVELOPMENT.

THEY WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS FIT TOGETHER.

AND, THEY START THINKING IT IS POINTLESS.

EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT POINTLESS, OBVIOUSLY.

WE HAVE A REALLY BIG ROLE TO PLAY AS FAMILY MEMBERS TO TRY TO CONNECT THE DOTS FOR THEM.

THAT IS ANOTHER THING WE CAN DO.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS A REASON YOU ARE LEARNING THE PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM.

HERE IS HOW I USE IT AT WORK OR SOMEBODY ELSE USES IT AT WORK.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY ARE RIGHT?

IT IS JUST BAD?

SCHOOL IS LIKE PRISON, A LOT OF WHAT THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THEM, WHAT IF THAT IS JUST TRUE?

>> A LOT OF IT IS TRUE.

WE JUST SPENT THREE YEARS TALKING TO TEENS AND LISTENING TO THEM AND A LOT OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS TRUE.

WE NEED TO DO BETTER AT A SYSTEM LEVEL TO MAKE THE EXPERIENCE OF SCHOOL MORE ENGAGING.

THINK ABOUT WHAT ADOLESCENCE IS.

YOU ARE TRYING TO SEPARATE FROM YOUR CAREGIVERS, FIND YOUR OWN TRIBE, THAT IS THE BIOLOGICAL IMPERATIVE AND YOU ARE MEANT TO BE EXPLORING TO DO THOSE THINGS.

YOU NEED TO BE DOING THINGS OTHER THAN SITTING IN A CHAIR AND ABSORBING KNOWLEDGE FROM SOMEONE SITTING IN FRONT OF THE CLASSROOM.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO HOW WE LEARN, AND IN PARTICULAR, HOW ADOLESCENTS LEARN.

WE NEED TO BALANCE.

KNOWLEDGE IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

WE ARE NOT ANTI-KNOWLEDGE.

WE NEED TO BETTER BALANCE WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND HOW THEY APPLY IT, GIVING THEM OPPORTUNITIES.

A LOT OF SCHOOLS DO THIS.

THERE ARE SCHOOLS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES THAT HAVE REDESIGNED THEIR DAY SO THE KIDS CAN SPEND HOURS IN THE CLASSROOM DURING THE LEARNING AND THEN THEY GO OUT AND APPLY IT.

BIG PICTURE LEARNING, THERE ARE SCHOOLS ALL OVER THE U.S. THAT LET KIDS GO TO PROJECTS THAT ARE COMMUNITY ORIENTED, THAT ARE REAL PROBLEMS.

YOU WANT A TEENAGER SOLVING A REAL PROBLEM AND THAT KID IS ON FIRE.

THEY KNOW THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN THE CLASSROOM EVERY DAY, THE COURT DOING WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING.

IF YOU ANONYMOUS, THEY FEEL UNSEEN AND THEY FEEL THEY ARE NOT BEING PREPARED.

THE WE NEED TO GIVE THEM MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET OUT OF THE CLASSROOM AND DO THOSE THINGS.

IT DOES EXIST.

IT IS HAPPENING.

IT IS HAPPENING AT THE MARGINS AND WE NEED TO MAKE IT MORE OF THE MAINSTREAM.

TO THE POINT, YES, WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM WHEN THEY SAVE A LOT OF THEIR DAY FEELS LIKE PRISON BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.

>> REBECCA, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, SINCE YOU ARE THE POLICY PERSON HERE, IS ANYBODY LISTENING TO YOU?

ARE PEOPLE HEARING WHAT YOU ARE HEARING, SEEING WHAT YOU ARE SEEING, IS ANYBODY LISTENING?

>> THERE IS A VERY STRONG COALITION OF NONPROFITS, OFTEN, AND INNOVATIVE SCHOOL LEADERS DISTRICT LEADERS WHO ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN TACKLING THE DISENGAGEMENT CRISIS AND GIVING STUDENTS AN EDUCATION EXPERIENCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO TRAIN TO BE THE AUTHOR OF THEIR OWN LIVES, GIVING THEM SOME CHOICE.

HELPING THEM MAKE DECISIONS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE ARE THE MINORITY.

AND, WHAT WE ARE HOPING IS THAT THIS BOOK WILL HELP PARENTS NOT ONLY HELP THEIR KID AT HOME BUT ALSO INCREASE THE DEMAND FROM PARENTS, FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS, FROM THE PUBLIC TO HELP INNOVATIVE SCHOOL LEADERS BE THE MODEL AND SPREAD THIS APPROACH ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> REBECCA WINTHROP, JENNY ANDERSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.