March 10, 2025

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY, HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP: >> A FUTURE WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES IN NATO?

FORMER HEAD OF THE ALLIANCE JAMES THAT MAPS OUT HOW EUROPE IS PREPARING FOR THAT SCENARIO.

>>> THEN: DEADLY VIOLENCE IN SYRIA.

EXECUTIONS AND COMMUNAL KILLINGS.

WE GET THE LATEST.

>>> PLUS: >> HI, HOW ARE YOU, CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT ANY OF THE RAPE ALLEGATIONS?

>> A SELF-PROCLAIMED MISOGYNIST CHARGED WITH HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

NOW ANDREW TATE AND HIS BROTHER ON U.S.

SOIL.

I ASKED WHAT THEIR RELEASE MEANS FOR WOMEN'S SAFETY.

>>> ALSO AHEAD: >> I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS THAT THESE AGENTS CAN ACTUALLY IN FACT KIND OF BE ON OUR SIDE.

>> SUPER AGENCY.

A LINKEDIN COFOUNDER REID HOFFMAN TELLS WALTER ISAACSON WHY HE BELIEVES IN A IS POTENTIAL FOR POSITIVE CHANGE.

♪ >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WE ARE, SYLVIA AND SIMON PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, MARK GLESSNER, THE FILAMENT FOUNDATION.

MELVIN, THE PETER PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, PATRICIA U.N., COMMITTED TO BUILDING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ, AND BETH ROGERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I AM BIANNA GOLODRYGA, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

WHILE THIS COULD BE A CREDIBLE -- CRITICAL WEEK FOR THE WAR IN UKRAINE, HE WILL MEET WITH HIS UKRAINIAN COUNTERPARTS TOMORROW.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IS ALSO GOING TO HAVE SEPARATE TALKS WITH THE CROWN PRINCE MOHAMMED.

THE BACKDROP CANNOT BE MORE FRAUGHT AFTER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS DEALT KEY OF A NUMBER OF SERIOUS BLOWS AND THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, INCLUDING AN ONGOING PAUSE IN MILITARY AID AND INTELLIGENCE SHARING, I'LL WALK YOU IS STILL FENDING OFF RUSSIA'S BRUTAL AGGRESSION.

RUSSIAN MISSILES KILLED AT LEAST 23 PEOPLE IN ONE DAY OVER THE WEEKEND, AND THERE TROOPS GAINING BACKGROUND, THREATENING ONE OF THE CRUCIAL BARGAINING CHIPS IN ANY FUTURE NEGOTIATIONS, SO WHAT KAPISA LOOK LIKE AND WHAT ROLE WHAT THE U.S., EUROPE, AND NATO PLAY IN ANY SECURITY GUARANTEES?

AVRIL SERVED AS NATO'S SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER AND A RECENT PIECE FOR BLOOMBERG IMAGINES WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE U.S.

PULLED OUT OF THAT ALLIANCE.

HE IS ALSO A PARTNER AT THE CARLYLE GROUP AND HE JOINS US FROM FLORIDA.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, JUST AN UNIMAGINABLE SCENARIO, EVEN HAVING TO WRITE ABOUT THE U.S.

PULLING OUT OF NATO A FEW MONTHS AGO, AND YET HERE WE ARE.

LET ME BEGIN, THOUGH, WITH THIS IMPORTANT WEEK HERE OF MEETINGS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE UKRAINIAN SPRINT THE AMERICAN SIDE SAYS THAT THEIR GOAL IS TO CREATE A FRAMEWORK FOR A PEACE AGREEMENT AND AN INITIAL CEASE-FIRE.

BASED ON EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE SEEN PUBLICLY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND ALL OF ITS EYES ARE DIRECTED SEEMINGLY JUST TOWARDS UKRAINE, WITH SERIOUS RAMIFICATIONS IN HOLDING BACK INTELLIGENCE AND WEAPONRY, HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT COME OUT OF THESE MEETINGS TOMORROW?

>> I AM VERY CONCERNED, WE ALL SHOULD BE.

THIS IS TRENDING IN A VERY NEGATIVE DIRECTION FOR UKRAINE.

LET'S BE HOPEFUL, AND HOPE IS NOT A STRATEGY, BUT LET'S BE HOPEFUL THAT WITH THE ARRIVAL OF SECRETARY RUBIO, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT WE COULD GET BACK ON TRACK, GET BACK TO THE IDEA OF THE MINERALS DEAL, WHICH I THINK IS VERY ATTRACTIVE PERSONALLY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND IF WE COULD GET BACK TO THAT SORT OF WHERE WE WERE RIGHT BEFORE THE EXPLOSIVELY BAD MEETING IN THE WHITE HOUSE, THAT WOULD BE A WIN.

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF GETTING BACK TO THAT?

I WOULD SAY THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVEN AT THIS POINT, BUT CERTAINLY A LOT OF CONCERN OUT THERE TO INCLUDE, FINAL THOUGHT, THE STRIKES THAT LEFT -- RUSSIA HAS BEEN WATCHING AGAINST CIVILIANS AND AGAINST CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IN UKRAINE.

>> IN TERMS OF THE OUTCOME OF THE U.S.

WITHHOLDING MILITARY AID, EXPERTS LIKE YOURSELF SAY THAT THAT WON'T BE NOTICEABLE ON THE BATTLEFIELD FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER FEW MONTHS, AND HOPEFULLY THE U.S. WILL START AGAIN SUPPLYING UKRAINE, ALONG WITH THE EUROPEANS, WITH THAT NEEDED AID.

BUT THE INTELLIGENCE THAT THE U.S. AS FROZEN, HOW MUCH CAN WE SAY THAT HAS PLAYED A ROLE IN SOME OF THE GAINS AND INROADS THAT RUSSIA HAS MADE, EVEN OVER THE LAST FEW DAYS, SPECIFICALLY IN THE KURSK REGION?

>> YOUR PREMISE IS EXACTLY RIGHT, AND JUST FOR VIEWERS, YES, OBVIOUSLY THE HEAVY MILITARY EQUIPMENT, THE BOMBS, THE MISSILES, ALL THAT IS CRITICAL, BUT IF YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT, EVEN AS SOMEONE WHO IS NOT INVOLVED, SHALL WE SAY IN THE PROFESSION OF ARMS, YOU WOULD QUICKLY REALIZE, WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO POINT THEM?

WHAT ARE THE TARGETS?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BE CERTAIN YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CAUSE COLLATERAL DAMAGE FOR EXAMPLE?

ALL OF THAT COMES OUT OF THE INTELLIGENCE AND IMAGERY, THESE ARE THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT COME FROM OVERHEAD SENSORS LIKE SATELLITES, WHICH ARE SHOWING NOW.

I HAVE WATCHED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF THIS KIND OF FOOTAGE WITH MY TARGET TEARS DURING STRIKES IN AFGHANISTAN, LIBYA, AND ELSEWHERE.

IT IS THE LIFEBLOOD OF MILITARY OPERATIONS, INTELLIGENCE AND IMAGERY, AND THAT IS HAVING THAT IMMEDIATE IMPACT, I THINK, IN THE KURSK REGION.

YOU SHOWED A MAP OF THAT A MOMENT AGO.

THIS IS A KEY BARGAINING CHIP FOR UKRAINE, AND SO FAR, IT APPEARS, SINCE THAT INTELLIGENCE WAS SHUT OFF, WE ARE SEEING REAL GAINS BY THE RUSSIANS, AND OH, BY THE WAY, THEIR EVIL CREATURES FROM NORTH KOREA, 12,000 SOLDIERS ARE PART OF THIS KURSK OFFENSIVE.

WE HAVE EFFECTIVELY BIND -- BLINDED THE UKRAINIANS, EVEN AS THIS ASSAULT HAS BEGUN.

AND FINAL THOUGHT, BIANNA, THE INTEL ABOUT INCOMING MISSILES AGAINST CIVILIAN TARGETS, IF THAT HAS BEEN SHUT OFF, CERTAINLY YOU CAN LAY THE DEATHS OF UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS ALONGSIDE THIS DECISION.

IT IS A BAD ONE.

>> SO, HOW DO YOU THEN TRY TO EXPLAIN OR WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN TAKING PLACE, RUSSIA ONLY STEPPING UP ITS ATTACKS AGAINST UKRAINE OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY APPEARING TO COME WITH REAL CONCESSIONS AND OFFERING SOME SOLUTIONS THAT HE THINKS COULD LEAD TO AT LEAST A TEMPORARY CEASE-FIRE, IN LAND AND SEA, AND YET YOU HEAR PRESIDENT TRUMP CONTINUE TO SAY THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE DIFFICULT TO GET UKRAINE TO COME TO THE TABLE, THAT UKRAINE REALLY HAS TO MAKE SOME CONCESSIONS.

SECRETARY OF STATE RUBIO SAID HE WOULD BE LISTENING TO SEE WHAT CONCESSIONS UKRAINE COULD MAKE, AND WE DON'T HEAR THAT TYPE OF LANGUAGE AS IT REFERS TO RUSSIA.

YES, THERE WAS A ONE-OFF ABOUT ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS, BUT THAT HASN'T BEEN ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED AT ALL, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IMPACT ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS WOULD HAVE, SINCE SO MANY SANCTIONS WERE LEVELED AGAINST RUSSIA WHEN THIS WAR INITIALLY BEGAN.

>> YEAH, IT IS CLEARLY A COMPLETE U-TURN ON U.S. POLICY.

PREVIOUSLY, WE WERE SUPPORTIVE, IN MY VIEW, AS WE SHOULD BE, OF UKRAINE.

A DEMOCRACY BACKED UP BY ALL OF OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES, WHO ARE THE VICTIMS HERE, WHO WERE INVADED BY A DICTATOR, VLADIMIR PUTIN.

NOW, IT FEELS AS THOUGH WE HAVE DONE THIS U-TURN WHERE OUR PRESUMPTION IS THAT RUSSIA IS SOMEBODY WHO WE CAN KIND OF SUPPORT IN THEIR APPROACH IN THE NEGOTIATIONS, WHAT WE PUT ALL THE PRESSURE OVER HERE ON THE UKRAINIANS.

YOU KNOW, BIANNA, WE USED TO TALK ABOUT MAXIMUM PRESSURE CAMPAIGNS APPLIED TO WHO?

THE IRANIANS.

NOW WE ARE USING THOSE TERMS AGAINST THE UKRAINIANS.

I THINK IT IS A MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE TO DO SO.

HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, LET'S GET BOTH PARTIES TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

LET'S GET A CEASE-FIRE WITHOUT GIVING AWAY ANY MORE UKRAINIAN TERRITORY, AND LET'S SEE WHERE THE NEGOTIATIONS GO.

BUT ULTIMATELY, YOUR POINT IS 100% CORRECT, WHICH IS THE U.S. IS GOING TO HAVE TO PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON VLADIMIR PUTIN, AND HE WILL HAVE TO MAKE SOME CONCESSIONS, ALONGSIDE THOSE THAT WE ENVISION FOR THE UKRAINIANS, IF WE ARE GOING TO GET TO A DEAL.

>> BACK TO YOUR PIECE ON ENVISIONING WHAT THE WORLD WOULD LOOK LIKE IF THE U.S.

DOES EXIT NATO, I WANT TO QUOTE FROM YOUR ARTICLE.

AND YOU WRITE, "THE EUROPEANS FOREIGN AND DEFENSE POLICIES WOULD RAPIDLY SPLIT FROM THOSE OF THE U.S., INSTEAD OF CONFRONTING CHINA ALONGSIDE WASHINGTON, THEY MIGHT SEE GREATER ECONOMIC AND PERHAPS EVEN MILITARY COOPERATION WITH BEIJING AS A HEDGE AGAINST GROWING U.S. ALIGNMENT WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN'S RUSSIA.

MORE EUROPEAN NATIONS WILL LIKELY JOIN BEIJING'S VELD AND ROAD INITIATIVES.

EUROPE MAY BE FAR LESS INCLINED TO JOIN WITH THE U.S. AND PRESSURING IRAN OVER ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM, AND INSTEAD SEEK ECONOMIC ADVANTAGES THERE."

MIND-BOGGLING TO ENVISION THAT TYPE OF MULTI-POLAR WORLD WHERE THE EUROPEANS, WHO HAD BEEN MORE ALIGNED TO CHINA OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT REALLY TOOK A STEP BACK BECAUSE OF PRESSURE FROM THE UNITED STATES TO DO SO, MAY FIND ITSELF BACK IN THE POSITION, IF NOT EVEN MORE RELIANT.

AND NOW ON SOCIAL MEDIA, YOU HAVE ELON MUSK SAYING THAT THE U.S. MUST EXIT NATO.

SOME ELECTED MEMBERS OF THE SENATE SUGGESTING THE SAME ONLINE.

HOW REAL IS THIS HYPOTHETICAL AT THIS POINT, BUT ONE THAT AT LEAST LED YOU TO WRITE A THOUGHTFUL PIECE LIKE THIS?

>> YEAH, A THOUGHTFUL PERHAPS, BUT CERTAINLY FOR ME, A HEARTBREAKING PIECE AS A FORMER COMMANDER OF NATO TO WRITE IT.

I BELIEVE IN THE ALLIANCE, I BELIEVE IN THE TRANSATLANTIC BRIDGE, BUT LET ME TELL YOU, IT IS KIND OF AN AHA MOMENT FOR EUROPEANS AS THEY LOOK AT THIS U-TURN IN FOREIGN POLICY THAT WE DISCUSSED A MOMENT AGO, AND THEY ARE COMING TO WHAT I FEAR IS AN ACCURATE REALIZATION THAT AT LEAST UNDER A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEY CAN'T COUNT ON SOLID SUPPORT FROM WASHINGTON.

SO, WE OUGHT TO REMEMBER, BIANNA, AND YOU KNOW THIS, YOU KNOW EUROPE QUITE WELL, WE OUGHT TO REMEMBER THAT EUROPE IS NOT WITHOUT CARDS IN THIS GAME.

THEY HAVE THE SECOND LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, COLLECTIVELY, 22% OF THE WORLD'S GDP, THE U.S. IS 25%, THERE ARE 22%.

THEY HAVE THE SECOND LARGEST DEFENSE BUDGET IN THE WORLD, COLLECTIVELY, MORE THAN CHINA, MORE THAN RUSSIA.

PROBABLY AROUND 500 BILLION, U.S. IS 900 BILLION.

SO, THEY HAVE A LOT OF CAPACITY, THEY HAVE EXCELLENT DEFENSE, INDUSTRIAL-BASED FRIENDS, EVERYTHING FROM AIRBUS TO LEONARDO, AND MANY OTHERS THAT AMERICANS WON'T KNOW, BUT EIGHT OF THE TOP 20 DEFENSE FIRMS IN THE WORLD ARE IN EUROPE.

SO, THEY HAVE GOT THE CAPACITY.

THE QUESTION IS -- TO CONCLUDE, DO THEY HAVE THE WILL AND DO THEY HAVE THE UNITY?

I THINK GIVEN WHAT THEY'RE SEEING FROM WASHINGTON, THAT IS UNDERWAY, AND THAT COULD LEAD TO A CRACK IN THE TRANSATLANTIC BRIDGE, AND THE END OF NATO AS WE KNOW IT.

>> AND YOU BRING UP AN IMPORTANT POINT, AND THAT IS THE ECONOMIC IMPACT, TOO, AND HOW EUROPE WILL HAVE TO RELY MORE ON ITS OWN DEFENSIVE COMPANIES, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, AND THAT IS THE UNITED STATES BEING THE MAIN SOURCE FOR PROCURING WEAPONS FOR EUROPE.

THIS HAS LONG BEEN VIEWED BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AS AN INVESTMENT IN THE U.S. ECONOMY, SPECIFICALLY IN THE DEFENSE SECTOR, A REINVESTMENT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY ALSO SAID AS MUCH WHEN HE SPOKE BEFORE A JOINT SESSION OF CONGRESS, SAYING THIS ISN'T CHARITY, THIS IS AN INVESTMENT.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE UNITED STATES OF ALL OF THE SUDDEN, THE GROWTH ENGINE, AT LEAST ON DEFENSIVE WEAPONRY, SHIFTS TO EUROPE?

>> IT WILL DIMINISH OUR OWN DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE, JUST TO PUT THE NUMBERS ON YOUR EXCELLENT POINT.

TODAY, ABOUT 75% OF EUROPEAN DEFENSE SPENDING GOES RIGHT TO AMERICAN COMPANIES.

THEY MAKE ABOUT 25% OF THEIR MILITARY EQUIPMENT AND EUROPE.

THEY ARE ACTIVELY CREATING FUNDS , ALLOCATING RESOURCES TO SPIN THAT AROUND, SO THAT THEY CAN BE THE ONES PRODUCING 50 TO 75% OF THEIR OWN MILITARY EQUIPMENT.

I THINK THEY WILL GET THERE IN THREE TO FIVE YEARS.

AND THAT IS MOVING FAST IN THE WORLD OF DEFENSE PROCUREMENT.

AND THEN FINAL POINT, AND I THINK YOU UNDERLINED THIS, BUT I JUST WANT TO HIT IT AGAIN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PROVIDING AID TO UKRAINE, MILITARY AID, WE DON'T SEND THEM LIKE A CONTAINER FULL OF CASH.

WHAT HAPPENS IS WE SPEND THAT MONEY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, IN OUR DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE, AND SEND THEM THOSE PRODUCTS.

GUESS WHO IS GOING TO TAKE THAT MARKET OF -- OH, BY THE WAY, GUESS WHO IS GOING TO GET THE MINERAL DEAL IF WE WALK AWAY FROM UKRAINE?

SO, THERE ARE SOUND ECONOMIC REASONS WE HAVE TO STAY ENGAGED HERE AS WELL.

>> JAMES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE SHOW.

>> THANKS, BIANNA.

>>> NEXT TO SYRIA WERE MORE THAN 700 PEOPLE, INCLUDING SCORES OF CIVILIANS, HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE WORST OUTBREAK OF VIOLENCE SINCE OUSTING OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT LATE LAST YEAR.

THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT LOYALISTS ARE ACCUSED OF CARRYING OUT EXECUTIONS AS PART OF -- THOSE ATTACKS STARTED AFTER REPORTS THAT HELP TOPPLE HIS DICTATORSHIP.

THE COUNTRIES INTERIM PRESIDENT IS CALLING FOR NATIONAL UNITY.

SHE DIRECTS THE SYRIA CONFLICT RESEARCH PROGRAM AT THE LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM, THERE IS A LOT OF UNREPORTED VIDEO AND UNCONFIRMED NEWS COMING OUT OF SYRIA OVER THE LAST 48, 72 HOURS.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT WHAT TRANSPIRED AND IN THE LAST FEW MOMENTS, WE DID HEAR FROM HIM, WHO HIMSELF SAID HE DEMANDS A FULL INVESTIGATION INTO THIS AS WELL.

>> INDEED.

THE CONTEXT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO KNOW THE FULL PICTURE, BUT WHAT WE KNOW BEFORE EVEN THE START [ INAUDIBLE ] WHAT WE HAVE IS AN ARMY AND SECURITY FORCES FOR THE PREVIOUS REGIME BEING DISSOLVED, WE KNEW THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE PART OF THE OLD REGIME, WHO ARE TRAINED, WHO ARE ARMED, OR LINKED TO EACH OTHER.

MANY WENT TO THE COAST.

FEEL COMPLETELY EXCLUDED OUT OF THE NEW REGIME.

A FEW VERY THREATENED, LOST THEIR RESOURCES, THEIR POWER.

[ INAUDIBLE ] AND THESE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROCESSED THROUGH A PROCESS OF EITHER TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE OR INTEGRATIVE SECURITY FORCES, BUT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN LET FREE.

THESE ARE ALL THE SAME MISTAKES THAT HAD BEEN COMMITTED AFTER THE IRAQ INVASION, DISSOLVING THE ARMY, CREATING AN EXCLUDING MINORITY THAT FEEL COMPLETELY POWERLESS.

[ INAUDIBLE ] WHAT THEY DID IS THEY STARTED AN AMBUSH AGAINST THE NEW SECURITY FORCES.

I WILL SAY, [ INAUDIBLE ] NOW WE HAVE A NEW FORMED STATE, AND THESE GUYS WILL BE KILLED.

I MEAN, THEY ARE YOUNG MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY FORCES, THEY JUST JOINED, JUST BEEN TRAINED, THEY ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THIS TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, AND THEY HAVE BEEN AMBUSHED, AND THAT KIND OF STARTED A BACKLASH AND A SERIES OF MASSACRES.

SEVERAL GROUPS DRAWN FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY, SOME OF THEM ARE PART OF THE VERY NEWLY FORMED SYRIAN ARMY, WHICH IS STILL DIFFERENT BRIGADES.

THE NEW PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO BRING THEM TOGETHER, THERE ARE SO MANY DIVISIONS BETWEEN THEM, SO MANY DIFFERENT DRIVERS, AND THEY ARE NOT ALL REALLY UNDER CONTROL OF THE PRESIDENT.

SOME OF THESE BRIGADES, PARTICULARLY THE ONE CALLED [ INAUDIBLE ], ACTIVE IN NORTH SYRIA, USED TO BE SUPPORTED BY TURKEY, THEY COMMITTED HORRIFIC, HORRIFIC CRIMES.

ALSO, PREVIOUS MEMBERS, THE INTERNATIONAL JIHADISTS FROM PAKISTAN, THEY ALSO COMMITTED ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC CRIMES, AND IT IS STILL HAPPENING.

UNTIL NOW.

THERE ARE STILL FORCES GOING FROM ONE VILLAGE TO THE OTHER, KILLING CIVILIANS.

AND WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT AT LEAST 240 SECURITY FORCES HAVE BEEN KILLED AND MORE THAN 1000 CIVILIANS AT LEAST.

>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, AND THANK YOU, YOU REALLY HELPED EXPLAIN WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED, BUT TO THE FACT THAT YOU SAY THIS IS STILL ONGOING, IT IS ALARMING, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU HAVE AL- SHARAA, WHO IS MAKING PUBLIC STATEMENTS NOW, CALLING FOR CALM, CALLING FOR INVESTIGATIONS, EVEN FOR THOSE "CLOSEST TO US, VOWING TO PUNISH ANYONE IN THIS VIOLENCE."

SO DOES THAT ENFORCE THE POINT THAT YOU MADE THAT HE LIKELY DOES NOT HAVE CONTROL OF ALL OF THESE FIGHTING FORCES?

>> YEAH, AND THIS IS VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE CONTROL SO QUICKLY.

WE ARE COMING FROM A BACKGROUND OF THE GREAT AUGMENTED COUNTRY, WHERE THE CONFLICT IS STILL THERE, THE CONFLICT IS NOT OVER.

I WALKED AROUND SYRIA, A FEW DIVISIONS ARE STILL THERE, DIFFERENT BRIGADES, DIFFERENT DRIVES, DIFFERENT IDEOLOGY, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY.

[ INAUDIBLE ] MY BELIEF IS THAT WE REALLY NEED A MULTILATERAL NEUTRAL PRESENCE TO HELP, LIKE U.N., WHO CAN HELP INTEGRATE THESE FORCES, DO IT DDR PROCESS, MEDIATE WHEN NEEDED, WHEN PROTECTION IS NEEDED.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN LEAVE IT TO SYRIANS ON THEIR OWN RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T WANT ONE COUNTRY TO INTERVENE, BUT WE WANT A MORE NEUTRAL PRESENCE THAT EVERYONE CAN FEEL SAFE AROUND, AND WHO CAN ASSIST, TO PRODUCE SOMETHING MORE INCLUSIVE, BECAUSE REALITY IS A FEW WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE X REGIME CRIMINALS, BUT THE BACKGROUND, [ INAUDIBLE ] THEY DON'T WANT US.

I SPOKE TO SO MANY ALLIES IN SYRIA, YOU CAN SEE IT, THEY DON'T WANT THIS, AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, IT IS THEM WHO DECIDED NOT TO SUPPORT THE REGIME WHEN IT WAS COLLAPSING.

THE REGIME COLLAPSED BECAUSE THE LOYALIST COMMUNITY DID NOT FIGHT FOR HIM.

THEY ARE DONE WITH IT.

AND THEY ARE RESISTING THE SPRINT THEY ARE RESISTING ANOTHER EPISODE OF VIOLENCE, SO, THEY NEED TO FEEL SECURE, THEY NEED TO FEEL SAFE, AND THEN THEY BECOME PARTNERED IN THE NEW COUNTRY, BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES IN THE MINORITIES BUT ALL THE MINORITIES IN SYRIA, YOU CAN SEE IT EVERYWHERE, THEY DON'T FEEL THE NEW SYSTEM IS INCLUSIVE ENOUGH.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WANT TO OVERTHROW THE REGIME, NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT OVERTHROWING THE REGIME IN SYRIA NOW.

[ INAUDIBLE ] THEY WANT TO SEE A MORE INCLUSIVE REGIME, MORE INCLUSIVE SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, THEY WANT TO BE REPRESENTED, THEY DON'T WANT A SYRIAN ARMY.

[ INAUDIBLE ] BY DESIGN, LED BY OFFICIALS WHO ARE NOT EVEN SYRIANS.

SO, THEY DO FEEL THREATENED.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS, AND WE CAN SEE NOW THE RESULTS OF THEM NOT BEING SECURE ENOUGH.

>> WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE WESTERN COUNTRIES FROM EUROPE TO THE UNITED STATES, WHO OBVIOUSLY HAD SANCTIONED THE ASSAD REGIME HEAVILY, AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW WEEKS, I'VE BEEN REALLY IN THE PROCESS OF LIFTING SOME OF THOSE SANCTIONS, BEEN MEETING WITHAND SOME OF HIS TOP DEPUTIES, AS WELL.

I MEAN, THE UNITED STATES CAME OUT AND SAID THAT WE CONDEMN THE SYRIAN MASSACRES, AND THAT THE U.S. "DANCE WITH THE MINORITIES."

HOW AT RISK IS THE LEFT AND NOW OF THESE SANCTIONS, WHICH AL- SHARAA DESPERATELY NEEDS, AS YOU HAVE NOTED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, ONE REASON WE HAVE ALL OF THIS IS THAT THE ECONOMY IS IN COMPLETE RUIN, AND ANYONE CAN COME AND RECRUIT YOUNG MEN FOR A NEW EPISODE OF VIOLENCE.

MANY IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO THIS BY SOME EX- GENERALS WHO HAD SOME MONEY, AND WHO SEEM TO HAVE SOME [ INAUDIBLE ] WITH REGIONAL POWERS LIKE IRAN, SO WE DO NEED THE SANCTIONS TO BE LIFTED, BUT TOGETHER WITH THAT, WE NEED OTHER STEPS TO ENSURE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE INCLUSIVE, THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT, THAT THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO WORK FOR THE PEOPLE.

SO NOT JUST LIFTING SANCTIONS, FULL STOP, KEEP WATCHING, SEE HOW THAT LIFTING IS CHANGING THE NEW SYSTEM.

USE EVERY LEVERAGE YOU HAVE TO ENSURE THE EMERGENCE OF MORE DEMOCRATIC INCLUSIVE SYRIA.

[ INAUDIBLE ] NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY, BUT I THINK IT IS DEMOCRACY THAT WILL PROTECT PEOPLE, WILL MAKE THE MINORITIES FEEL SAFE, IT WILL MAKE THEM FEEL REPRESENTED.

IT WILL MAKE SURE THAT THEN NO ONE IS GOING TO COME TO POWER AND STAY FOR ANOTHER 50 YEARS WITH NO CHANCE OF SHARING POWER AT ALL.

SO, I DON'T SUPPORT A FULL BOYCOTT.

I THINK WE SHOULD WORK TO LIFT THE SANCTIONS, BUT ENSURE THAT THIS IS GOING TO WORK FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT FOR A NEW ELITE WHO ARE GOING TO CONTROL THE RESOURCES OF THE STATE AND CONTROL EVERYONE.

ALL THESE YOUNG MEN SPREAD AROUND THE COUNTRY, THEY SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, THEY SHOULD BE BUILDING SYRIA RIGHT NOW, THEY SHOULD NOT BE KILLING EACH OTHER.

AND WITHOUT THE FUNDS FLOWING, WITHOUT THE ECONOMY THAT FUNCTIONS IN THE LIGHT AND THE SHADOW, AS IS THE CASE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE SANCTIONS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE SUCH A COUNTRY [ INAUDIBLE ] IN A MORE POSITIVE PROJECT.

>> WHAT ROLE SPECIFICALLY TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AVENUE HERE AS IT DIFFERENT FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S APPROACH?

BECAUSE AL-SHARAA ALSO IN THIS INTERVIEW WITH REUTERS SAID SYRIA HAD NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEN HE WENT ON TO SAY THAT SYRIA IS UNABLE TO RESTORE SECURITY WITH THE U.S. SANCTIONS, SPECIFICALLY IN PLACE.

WE KNOW THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD EVEN BEFORE HE CAME INTO OFFICE, AND SAID THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE U.S.

TROOPS WITHDRAW FROM THE NORTHERN PART OF THE COUNTRY, THAT HAD BEEN ALIGNED THERE WITH THE KURDISH FIGHTERS.

WHAT ROLE SHOULD THE U.S.

PLAY RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL RULES THAT COULD BE PLAYED HERE, INCLUDING WHAT YOU MENTIONED IN THE NORTHEAST OF SYRIA.

SO, BEFORE WITHDRAWING THE TROOPS, WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS [ INAUDIBLE ] IN PLACE BETWEEN THE KURDS AND ALL THE COMMUNITIES IN NORTHEAST SYRIA, AND THE NEW AUTHORITIES.

I JUST THINK THEY SHOULD SUDDENLY WITHDRAW AND LEAVE A VACUUM BEFORE ENSURING THAT PEOPLE DO FEEL SAFE, AND THERE IS A RELIABLE PROCESS IN PLACE.

I THINK THEY COULD ALSO HAVE THE SECURITY COUNCIL, ENSURING THAT THERE WOULD BE NEW RESOLUTIONS, THAT HAVE THE CONCERNS OF ALL -- THE END RESOLUTION WILL HAVE CONSENSUS [ INAUDIBLE ], BUT WE NEED FOR EXAMPLE INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE FOR ALL THESE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING COMMITTED.

WE NEED TO ASK PEOPLE, WHAT DO THEY NEED TO FEEL PROTECTED?

AND I THINK WE NEED A NEW [ INAUDIBLE ] THAT HAS A REAL MANDATE [ INAUDIBLE ] THAT CAN HELP THE NEW AUTHORITIES AND ASSIST THEM, GIVE THEM ALL THE TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE THAT IS NEEDED TO REFORM THE FINANCIAL SECTOR, PERFORM STATE INSTITUTIONS, AND BUILD A [ INAUDIBLE ] ARMY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR EXPERTISE AND FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM TODAY, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WELL, NOW, FROM PROFESSIONAL KICKBOXER TO NOTORIOUS POSTER BOY OF THE MENA SPEAR, ANDREW TATE LANDED IN FLORIDA LAST MONTH.

THIS DESPITE FACING CHARGES OF TRAFFICKING AND SEXUALLY EXPLOITING WOMEN IN ROMANIA ALONGSIDE HIS BROTHER, TRISTAN.

IS ONLINE FAN BASE HAS CONTINUED TO GROW INTO THE MILLIONS ON SOCIAL MEDIA WHERE THE PETALS SEXIST AND RADICAL RIGHT-WING VIEWS.

ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS, KYLE CLIFFORD, WAS CONVICTED OF BRUTALLY MURDERING HIS EX- GIRLFRIEND, HER SISTER, AND MOTHER, USING A CROSSBOW IN THE UK.

PROSECUTORS POINTING TO THE ROLE TATE'S CONTENT PLAYED IN RADICALIZING CLIFFORD.

THE BREAKDOWN THE IMPLICATIONS OF ALL OF THIS, I AM JOINED BY A BRITISH-AMERICAN LAWYER AND CHAIR OF THE SENIOR PARTNER IN McALLISTER OLIVERI'S.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM, AND WE MENTIONED THE HUNT MURDERS THAT TOOK PLACE LAST YEAR IN THE UK, LAST SUMMER, AND HOW PROSECUTORS CONNECTED THE MURDERS TO WHAT THEY VIEWED AS A VIOLENT MISOGYNY PROMOTED BY ANDREW TATE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT HAD ON THE COUNTRY AS IT RELATES TO SOME OF THE WORK AND VIDEO THAT ANDREW TATE HAS BECOME INFAMOUS FOR, ALONGSIDE HIS BROTHER, AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE LESSONS THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN HERE IN THE UNITED STATES FROM THAT AS THE BROTHERS HAD BEEN WELCOMED, SURPRISINGLY, BACK HOME?

>> INDEED, NOT BY RON DeSANTIS, I GATHER, I READING THE PAPERS.

HE IS NOT SO KEEN AS THE GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA TO HAVE THEM.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE TATE BROTHERS, THEY MAY HAVE GONE OFF TO L.A.

RIGHT NOW, ANYWAY, HE IS TRYING TO LAND SOMEPLACE, BUT THERE ARE LEGAL ACTIONS AGAINST HIM IN THE UNITED STATES FOR RAPE AND BATTERY, ALSO IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND ALSO IN ROMANIA, OF COURSE.

PEOPLE ARE AFTER HIM.

BUT HE HAS BECOME ONE OF MY BEST GREAT PERSONS, THEY LOVE THIS GUY, HE IDENTIFIES WITH THEM, THEY HAVE EMBRACED HIM AND HIS POLITICS, AND OF COURSE, WHAT TATE HAS DONE BRILLIANTLY AS HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO TAKE MISOGYNY AND HATRED TOWARDS WOMEN AND HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO PACKAGE THAT ONTO THE INTERNET, THEN HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO MONETIZE IT, SO HE HAS BECOME EXTREMELY WEALTHY BY SELLING THIS, YOU KNOW, HIS HATE PACKAGE.

AND NOW, IT IS BEING POLITICIZED.

IT HAS GOT A POLITICAL BACKING.

SO, IN FACT, THINGS ARE GOING SOUTH FOR WOMEN AND FOR CIVIL SOCIETY, BECAUSE NOW HE HAS GOT A POLITICAL -- THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BEHIND HIM AND WHAT HE IS DOING.

I MEAN, TUCKER CARLSON AT A SLOBBERING INTERVIEW WITH HIM LAST YEAR, POSITIONING TATE AS A SLIGHTLY EDGY ROLE MODEL, WHO JUST WANTED MEN TO GET RESPECT ABOVE ALL.

SO, THESE ARE NOT GOOD DAYS AHEAD OF US, I FEAR.

>> NOT GOOD DAYS IN WHAT SENSE?

OBVIOUSLY, VERY DISTASTEFUL, VIOLENT, GRAPHIC VIDEOS THAT HAVE BEEN POSTED.

WE HAVE SEEN THE CONSEQUENCES, ACCORDING TO UK PROSECUTORS, OF SOME OF THEIR VIOLENT ANTICS.

BUT FOR AMERICAN WOMEN, FOR WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD, THE FACT THAT YOU SEE THEM EMBRACED BY A POLITICAL MOVEMENT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THOUGH THERE ARE SOME, AND WE WILL GET TO IT IN A MINUTE, SOME REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE ALSO BEEN A SPOKEN, YOU MENTIONED RON DeSANTIS, ABOUT THEIR EMBRACE HERE IN M.A.G.A.

WORLD.

WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THESE TYPES OF ACTIONS, AND PLATFORMING PEOPLE LIKE THE TATE BROTHERS?

>> YEAH, SO, FOR INSTANCE, HERE IN ENGLAND, THEY TOOK A LOOK AT TATE AND WHAT EFFECT HE IS HAVING, AND THEY FOUND THAT EIGHT OUT OF 10 BOYS IN SCHOOL, TEENAGERS, YOU KNOW, HAD SEEN TATE'S VIDEOS ONLINE.

AND SO, THAT IS A DISTURBING CONCEPT, BECAUSE LET'S BE CLEAR WHAT HE IS TEACHING.

HE IS TEACHING A PYRAMID SCHEME.

YOUNG BOYS ARE LURED INTO THIS POOL OF CONTENT ABOUT HOW MEN NEED TO FIND SELF-DISCIPLINE.

THEY NEED TO GO TO THE GYM, THEY NEED TO ASSERT DOMINANCE IN THE GAME OF LIFE.

THAT IS THE EARLY DAYS, THAT IS THE BEGINNING INTRODUCTION TO TATE.

AND THEN THE NEXT STEP IS THE IDEA THAT WOMEN ARE, AND TATE HAS SAID THIS, INHERENTLY LAZY, WORTHLESS, AND ONLY GOOD FOR EXCHANGING SEX FOR MONEY, EITHER BY MARRIAGE OR BY SEX WORK.

FOR TATE, WOMEN CANNOT HAVE NON- TRAN35 RELATED CAREERS OUTSIDE OF THE HOME.

THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS BUT IF YOUNG BOYS ARE WATCHING THIS.

AND WHAT'S HAPPENING, OF COURSE, IS THAT TATE DELIVERED FOR TRUMP A LOT OF YOUNG MEN TO VOTE.

WOMEN, NOT SO, AND THERE IS A DIVIDE NOW AMONG YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN.

THE MEN ARE EMBRACING TATE AND THE WOMEN ARE NOT, JUST LIKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS INCREASINGLY WANTING TO HAVE A MORE TRADITIONAL LIFESTYLE FOR WOMEN, AND WOMEN ARE SAYING, NO, WE DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT THERE IS A SURPRISE, I THINK 48% OF REPUBLICANS NOW WANT A TRADITIONAL LIFESTYLE AND VALUES AND FAMILY STRUCTURES, WHICH MEANS SAD NEWS FOR WOMEN WHO WANT TO HAVE CAREERS AND HAVE A LIFE THAT IS INDEPENDENT AND AUTONOMOUS, FROM POTENTIALLY THEIR PARTNERS OR HUSBANDS, MEN.

>> I MENTIONED THE SPLIT WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OVER THIS M.A.G.A.

WORLD EMBRACE OF THE TATE BROTHERS SPREAD OVER THE WEEKEND, WE SAW DANIEL WHITE, WHO WAS EMBRACING THEM ON VIDEO THERE, HE SITS ON THE BOARD OF META, AT A UFC FIGHT IN LAS VEGAS OVER THE WEEKEND.

YOU ALSO, THOUGH, HAVE REPUBLICAN SENATORS LIKE JOSH HAWLEY, WHO SAYS I DON'T THINK CONSERVATIVES SHOULD BE GLORIFYING THIS GUY AT ALL.

BEN SHAPIRO AND MEGYN KELLY ALSO DENOUNCING HIM.

YOU MENTIONED FLORIDA GOVERNOR RON DeSANTIS, HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THEM: >> FLORIDA IS NOT A PLACE WHERE YOU ARE WELCOME.

WITH THAT TYPE OF CONDUCT IN THE AIR.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT CAME TO THIS.

WE WERE NOT INVOLVED, WE WERE NOT NOTIFIED.

X IS THIS A GENERATIONAL DIVIDE EVEN WITHIN ONE PARTY OR POLITICAL BASE?

AND DO YOU THINK THERE IS HOPE FOR OPTIMISM, PERHAPS, THAT THERE WILL BE MORE PEOPLE THAT PUBLICLY COME OUT WITH PLATFORMS, LARGE PLATFORMS, DENOUNCING THE ACTIONS OF THESE MEN AS WELL?

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU SEE RIGHT NOW, WE ARE IN A PERIOD OF WHAT TRUMP WANTS, HE IS TRYING TO GET, AND VERY FEW PEOPLE DARE SPEAK UP AGAINST TRUMP.

SO, THE FACT THAT TATE IS EMBRACED BY TRUMP AND MUSK, WHO OF COURSE, HERE TATE HAS BEEN OFF OF ALL SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS.

HE HAS BEEN BACK ON TO TALK A LITTLE BIT, BUT ELON MUSK HAS PUT HIM BACK ONTO TWITTER, WHICH SAYS AN AWFUL LOT.

WHY WOULD ELON MUSK DO THAT?

HE WAS KICKED OFF FOR RAMPANT MISOGYNY AND HATE POLITICS.

IT IS INTERESTING, IN THIS CASE THAT JUST HAPPENED HERE WHERE THIS CHAP -- THIS EX-ARMY PERSON CAME IN AND KILLED HIS GIRLFRIEND, MOTHER, AND ALSO HIS SISTER, AND BRUTALLY, AND THIS EX-GIRLFRIEND, RAPED HER FOR MANY HOURS AND TORTURED HER BEFORE HE KILLED HER, HE ADMITTED TO THE MURDERS, AND HE ADMITTED TO ENTERING THE HOUSE AND THE FALSE IMPRISONMENT OF HIS EX-GIRLFRIEND, AND HE ADMITTED TO TWO COUNTS OF POSSESSION OF OFFENSIVE WEAPONS.

BUT HE SAID NO, I WAS NOT GUILTY OF RAPE.

AND HIS DEFENSE AT TRIAL, WHICH HE WOULD NOT ATTEND, HE MADE SURE HER FAMILY HAD TO ATTEND, AND THEY HAD TO LISTEN TO ALL OF THE MOST TRAGIC, SAD DETAILS, BUT HE WOULDN'T GO AS A LAST ACT OF DOMINATION.

BUT HIS DEFENSE ON THE RAPE WAS THAT IT WAS CONSENSUAL, AND OF COURSE THAT SOMEBODY, M.A.G.A.

, COULD EMBRACE THIS IDEOLOGY OF THIS MAN, WHICH IS WHAT THEY WOULD DO, NOW, WHO WOULD RAPE A CONSENSUAL, ACT, WHEN SHE IS RIGHT THERE NEXT TO HER DEAD MOTHER WHO HAS JUST BEEN STABBED BY THIS MAN, WHAT WOMAN WOULD CONSENT TO SEX?

IT IS BEYOND THE PALE, WHO EVEN THINKS THIS WAY, HOW COULD IT BE POSSIBLE?

BUT HE IS, AND PEOPLE LIKE TATE, GIVE THESE KINDS OF DEFENSES.

THEY SAY THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS, THESE FOUR MEN.

AND THEY TRY THIS IDEA OUT THAT THEY ARE HEARTBROKEN BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN REJECTED.

IT WASN'T ABOUT THIS MAN SAYING , I WAS SO HEARTBROKEN, I MISSED HER.

NO, HE WAS HEARTBROKEN BECAUSE CLIFFORD, THIS MAN, COULD NOT TOLERATE LOUISE, HIS EX- GIRLFRIEND, WHO HE MURDERED AND RAPED AND TORTURED, HE COULD NOT ACCEPT HER AUTONOMY, AND THAT IS THE THING THAT IS HAPPENING, OF COURSE, WITH ANDREW TATE.

HE IS ARGUING FOR MEN'S AUTONOMY, BUT WOMEN'S SUBMISSION, THAT WOMEN HAVE TO BE SUBJECTED TO HUMILIATION AND SERVITUDE, THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE TO DO.

>> I JUST WANT TO SAY -- LET'S USE A NORMAL GUY.

IS THIS WHAT A NORMAL GUY IS?

>> YOU MENTIONED THE CASE OF KYLE CLIFFORD, A MIDDLE-AGED MAN.

I AM JUST WONDERING, WHAT IMPACT DO THESE VIDEOS AND THE POPULARIZATION OF PEOPLE LIKE ANDREW AND TRISTAN TATE, WHAT IMPACT DOES THIS HAVE ON YOUNG BOYS?

WHO HAVE ACCESS TO THESE VIDEOS , THESE WEBSITES, TWITTER ACCOUNTS, ALL OF THESE PAGES THAT PERHAPS THEIR PARENTS DON'T EVEN KNOW EXIST, AT A VERY VULNERABLE TIME IN THEIR MATURITY AND PUBERTY PROCESS.

>> SURE, AND OF COURSE TATE IS AN AFFECTION AUTO OF HARD-CORE PORNOGRAPHY, AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HIM THAT YOUNG BOYS ACTUALLY SEE THIS.

SO, WE HAVE A WHOLE GENERATION OF YOUNG BOYS, EIGHT YEARS OLD AND ABOVE, LEARN ABOUT SEX BY WATCHING PORN.

THAT IS NOT EXACTLY A PROGRESSIVE, HAPPY WAY TO LEARN ABOUT SEX, OR GOING TO GIVE YOU NECESSARILY A HAPPY SEX LIFE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE HAVING SEX WITH A WOMAN.

WHAT ARE THEY LEARNING ABOUT SEX THAT IS POSITIVE FOR A WOMAN?

SO, IT SAYS THAT THESE ARE NORMAL KIDS, NORMAL BLOKES, NORMAL CHAPS, THAT THIS IS THE MALE STANDARD, THAT IS DANGEROUS FOR ALL OF US.

X IS THERE A MASCULINITY CRISIS IN AMERICA, YOU KNOW, IN THE WESTERN WORLD AT THIS POINT?

>> YEAH, WHAT A GOOD QUESTION.

YEAH, BECAUSE FOR MEN, IT IS DIFFERENT.

WOMEN HAVE DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS THAN THEY DID EVEN WHEN I FIRST WENT TO SCHOOL.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT.

WOMEN HAVE DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS AND FATHERS AND GRANDFATHERS, AT A DIFFERENT LIFE THAN THESE YOUNG MEN HAVE, AND SO, LIKE TRUMP, THEY DON'T REALLY WANT EQUALITY, THEY LIKE TO BEING THE ONES IN CHARGE, THEY WANTED TO BE THE DOMINANT ONES, THEY WANTED TO RUN THE FAMILIES, THE THE PATRIARCHY.

AND THEY ARE NOT THE PATRIARCHS NOW AND A LOT OF FAMILIES.

IN SUM, BUT FEWER AND FEWER FAMILIES.

MOST WOMEN ARE NOT PREPARED TO ACCEPT THAT, THEY DON'T WANT THAT.

>> YOU HELPED THE UK PARLIAMENT PASSED THE COUNTRY'S VERY FIRST REVENGE PORNOGRAPHY LAW IN 2016.

WHAT TAKEAWAYS CAN THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TAKE FROM THE WORK YOU HAVE CONDUCTED IN THE PAST?

>> YEAH, OF COURSE, I HELPED DRAFT OF THAT AND WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING THAT BILL PASSED.

AND IT HAS BEEN A VERY INTERESTING BILL.

WE HAD EARLY DATES FOR US IN THAT AREA AND WE REALLY MADE NEW LAW THERE.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD ON AN ONLINE CORMS BILL, OF COURSE, AND WE HAD ONE PASS, THE ORIGINAL ONE WE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE REALLY GREAT, BECAUSE THERE IS LEGISLATION IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT MEANS YOU CANNOT GO AFTER THE PLATFORMS, THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS FOR THE STUFF THEY PUT ON THERE, THE DEEP FAKES, THE PORN, THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, THEY ALL GOT SOME PROTECTION ON THAT.

SO, WE THOUGHT, IF WE PUT ON A LAW HERE IN BRITAIN THAT WOULD STOP THAT, SO THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBILITY BY THE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS FOR WHAT THEY ARE PUTTING UP THERE, THEN WE COULD ENFORCE THAT.

BUT OF COURSE, THAT WOULD BE THE LEAD FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD AND FOR THE WEST.

BUT OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, ZUCKERBERG AND ALL SORTS OF AMERICANS CAME AND SAID, NO, NO, THAT IS JUST REALLY NOT GOING TO WORK WITH THESE BULLY TACTICS.

>> ELON MUSK, WE SAW IT FIRSTHAND WHEN HE WAS IN EUROPE, SPEAKING IN MUNICH, AND REALLY CHASTISING THE EUROPEANS FOR WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS THEM BLOCKING FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS REALLY IMPORTANT TOPIC.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN PUZZLING GOVERNMENTS, INVESTORS, AND ORDINARY PEOPLE ALIKE.

THE BENEFITS OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WEIGHED AGAINST THE RISKS.

COFOUNDER OF LINKEDIN BELIEVES THAT THE LIST OF BENEFITS IS LONG.

HE JOINED WALTER ISAACSON TO TALK ABOUT THE NEW BOOK HE COAUTHORED: SUPER AGENCY.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA, I AM REID HOFFMAN, THANK YOU TO THE SHOW.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF EVERYTHING IN THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION, FROM LINKEDIN TO PAYPAL, AND NOW OF COURSE, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

YOU HAVE GOT A NEW BOOK CALLED SUPER AGENCY, IT IS VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT A.I.

BUT LET ME START WITH THE TITLE AND WITH THE WORD AGENCY.

JUST AGENCY.

WHEN WE HUMANS USE IT, IT MEANS WE HAVE A FREE WILL TO MAKE A PLAN AND TAKE AN ACTION, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN HERE AND CAN COMPUTERS DO THAT?

THAT'S I'M NOT SAYING THE COMPUTERS CAN DO THAT, THIS IS ACTUALLY A BOOK ABOUT HUMAN AGENCY, BOTH INDIVIDUAL AND SOCIETAL, AND THE KIND OF SUPER AGENCY AND SUPERPOWERS.

BUT BY THE WAY, THE FLOPPER SERVERS MIGHT DISPUTE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OF WHETHER OR NOT IT IS AGENCY AND FREE WILL, BUT IT IS AGENCY OF OUR FUNDAMENTAL HUMANITY AND HOW WE ORGANIZE OUR LIVES AND CONNECT WITH EACH OTHER, AND THE THESIS AROUND SUPER AGENCY IS THAT A.I., LIKE OTHER GENERAL-PURPOSE TECHNOLOGIES IN OUR HISTORY, WILL HELP US DO THAT.

>> RIGHT, AND WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS A NOTION THAT WORKING WITH THE SYMBIOSIS BETWEEN THE MACHINES AND OURSELVES WILL EMPOWER US MORE.

EXPLAIN WHY YOU THINK WE GET EMPOWER AND MORE WHEN OUR MACHINES ARE DOING MORE AND MORE THINGS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, TAKE FOR EXAMPLE CARDS AS A HISTORY, WHICH BY THE WAY, THEY DID HAVE A SIMILAR CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER IT WOULD DESTROY HUMAN SOCIETY, CHANGE PATTERNS, ET CETERA, AND CARS ACTUALLY GIVE YOU SUPER AGENCY, SUPERPOWERS, THE ABILITY TO GO FASTER, FURTHER DISTANCES, ET CETERA.

YOU GET SUPER AGENCY WITH CARDS, BECAUSE NOT ONLY DO YOU GET THAT SUPERPOWER, BUT OTHER PEOPLE DO, TOO.

A DOCTOR MIGHT BE ABLE TO COME VISIT YOU, VERSUS YOU HAVING TO TRY TO GET TO THE DOCTOR BUT AND COMPUTERS, I THINK, AND A.I., WILL DO THE SAME THING.

>> WHEN YOU SAY THAT IT WILL BE SAFE AND IT WILL RESPOND TO OUR NEEDS, LET ME QUOTE A SENTENCE WHERE YOU SAY, "WE ARE GOING TO PURSUE A FUTURE IN WHICH BILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD GET EQUITABLE, HANDS-ON ACCESS TO EXPERIMENT WITH THESE TECHNOLOGIES."

FIRST OF ALL, LET ME ASK YOU WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> WELL, IT IS IMPORTANT IN PART BECAUSE PART OF HOW WE GET -- JUST THINK ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE, TIM COOK'S iPHONE IS THE SAME ONE THAT THE CABDRIVER AND THE UBER DRIVER IS USING, SO IT IS A FACT WHEN YOU GET TECHNOLOGIES DESIGNED FOR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, BILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE THEN ENGAGED WITH THEM, THEN WE ARE ALL BEING ELEVATED, AND OUR SOCIETY AT HOME IS GETTING HER AGENT TOGETHER, AND SO, THAT INCLUSION HELPS US DIRECT IT IN WAYS THAT ARE BETTER, NOT JUST FOR INDIVIDUALS, BUT ALSO FOR SOCIETY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT A COGNITIVE, INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.

I MEAN, I LOVE LOOKING AT HISTORY OF ALL THE VARIOUS AGRICULTURAL, INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTIONS.

COMPARE THIS ONE TO THE PREVIOUS REVELATIONS WE HAVE HAD DRIVEN BY TECHNOLOGY POINT >> WELL, PART OF THE REASON I CALL IT COGNITIVE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION IS BECAUSE I WANT BOTH KIND OF THE UPSIDE TO BE WELL UNDERSTOOD, WHICH IS NOTHING OF OUR SOCIETY, THE WAY WE EXIST, MIDDLE-CLASS, EDUCATION, MEDICINE, YOU KNOW, THE VERY TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU AND I ARE TALKING ON TODAY, EXISTS WITHOUT THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.

SO, THE TARGETED OUTCOME CAN BE AMAZING AND SHOULD BE AMAZING, BUT IT IS ALSO, WE HAVE TO NAVIGATE THE TRANSITIONS, BECAUSE THE TRANSITIONS LIKE THE TRANSITION IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION NECESSITATED A LOT OF KIND OF DIFFICULT ADJUSTMENTS WITHIN HUMAN SOCIETY.

YOU KNOW, WE NEEDED THE CHILD LABOR LAWS, WE NEEDED WORK WEEKS, WE NEEDED A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT WORK, AND I ANTICIPATE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SIMILAR TRANSITION ISSUES, AND SO, WE NEED TO NAVIGATE THOSE, HOPEFULLY HAVING LEARNED WITH MORE HUMANITY AND MORE GRACE THAN EARLIER TRANSITIONS.

>> WELL, TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE TRANSITION RULES THAT YOU THINK ARE NECESSARY FOR A.I.

>> SO, IT IS A FACT THAT -- PEOPLE SAY IT IS GOING TO BE A WHOLE BUNCH OF JOB REPLACEMENT, THERE WILL BE SOME JOB REPLACEMENT, TAKE FOR EXAMPLE CUSTOMER SERVICE, OR A HUMAN IS BASICALLY TRYING TO BE A ROBOT, FOLLOWING THE SCRIPT, A.I.

WILL DO THAT MUCH BETTER.

BUT EVEN A LOT OF OTHER JOBS WILL BE TRANSFORMED.

SO, WHEN YOU PREVIOUSLY NEEDED THESE 20 SKILLS, YOU NOW NEED ONLY EIGHT OF THOSE SKILLS, AND THEN FIVE MORE IN ORDER TO DO THE JOB.

IF YOU ARE A GRAPHIC DESIGNER, YOUR ABILITY TO DO THINGS FINE- TUNED WITH YOUR GRAPHIC DEXTERITY, MANUAL DEXTERITY, IS VERY IMPORTANT.

NOW, VISUAL THINKING IS STILL IMPORTANT, BUT THE MANUAL DEXTERITY IT MAY BE LESS IMPORTANT, THAT IS KIND OF A JOB TRANSITION.

SO, WE NEED A.I.

THE THING I WOULD BE ASKING FOR FROM THE COMPANIES AND GOVERNMENT, IS A.I.

TO HELP PEOPLE WITH THESE TRANSITIONS.

YOU KNOW, WHICH FEW SKILLS THEY NEED TO PICK UP, ARE THEY STILL GOING TO BE DOING THIS JOB, OR HELPING YOU FIND OTHER JOBS, HELPING YOU LEARN OTHER JOBS, HELPING YOU DO OTHER JOBS, AND WE WANT A.I.

HELPING US WITH ALL OF THAT.

>> YEAH, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IT, THE ROLE SEEMS EVEN GRANDER THAN JUST HELPING US WITH OUR JOBS, BECAUSE I'M GOING TO READ YOU A SENTENCE IN THE BOOK.

YOU SAY, "EVERY NEW TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE INVENTED, FROM LANGUAGES TO BOOKS TO THE MOBILE PHONE, AS DEFINED, REDEFINED, DEEPENED, AND EXPANDED WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN."

SO, TELL ME HOW THIS WILL EXPAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN.

>> WELL, SO, PART OF IT IS WE ARE ACTUALLY MORE TECHNIQUE THAN SAPIENS.

WE EVOLVE THROUGH OUR TECHNOLOGY.

OUR GENETIC ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME OVER THE LAST 4000 YEARS, WHICH IS KIND OF THE RECORDED HISTORY OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION.

AND YET, I CAN SEE LITERALLY THROUGH GLASSES, ET CETERA.

A.I.

IS GOING TO BE DOING THE SAME THING, IT IS GOING TO BE SAYING, HEY, YOU WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING, YOU WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING, YOU WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING, WE CALL A.I.

INFORMATIONAL GPS.

JUST LIKE YOU USED GPS TO NAVIGATE A NEW CITY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO COME ALL INFORMATION SPACES, MEDICAL, WORK, EDUCATION, CREATIVE, CAN BE AMPLIFIED WITH THIS INFORMATION GPS.

AND THAT IS THE KIND OF -- THAT THEN BECOMES A NEW PART OF WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN, BECAUSE WE HAVE THAT, IN HELPING US WITH OUR NAVIGATION, JUST AS OUR SMART PHONES AND A MAP DOES TODAY.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT AS PART OF YOUR SUBTITLE IS WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHAT COULD GO RIGHT.

I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT MEDICINE, YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH CANCER RESEARCH.

TELL ME THE BIG THINGS THAT CAN GO RIGHT WITH THIS.

>> WELL, SO, AS YOU WERE GESTURING AT, A COMPANY THAT I COFOUNDED, YOU KNOW, WE ARE TRYING TO CURE CANCER WITH A.I.

ACCELERATIONS AND DRUG DISCOVERY.

BUT EVEN MORE IMMEDIATE, LIKE LINE OF SIGHT, A MEDICAL ASSISTANT, 24 BY SEVEN, THAT CAN BE IN EVERY POCKET.

YOU HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT YOURSELF, YOUR CHILD, YOUR SIBLING, YOU KNOW, YOUR PARENT, YOU CAN GET AN ANSWER.

A TUTOR ON EVERY SUBJECT FOR EVERY AGE.

A LEGAL ASSISTANT.

YOU KNOW, I CAN'T AFFORD A LAWYER AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THIS RENTAL CONTRACT, WELL, ACTUALLY IN FACT, A.I., CHATGPT, COPILOT, CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT TODAY.

SO, THOSE ARE ALWAYS THAT YOUR LIFE GETS KIND OF MAGNIFIED.

AND OF COURSE, IT WILL END UP BEING EVEN MORE THINGS THAN THESE THINGS THAT WE CAN SAY TODAY.

PART OF NEW PURPOSE TECHNOLOGIES AS THEY CREATE NEW THINGS THAT WE DIDN'T EVEN IMAGINE WHAT'S POSSIBLE, THAT IS PART OF, OF COURSE, THE EXCITEMENT OF BEING AN INVENTOR, AN INVESTOR IN THESE THINGS.

X GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING WE PROBABLY AREN'T IMAGINING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN?

>> THIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE WANT TO SHOOT FOR OUR AUDIENCE, BUT FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY ALL OF THESE FRONTIER LABS ARE BUILDING CODING SYSTEMS IS NOT JUST TO MAKE ENGINEERS MORE EFFICIENT.

YES, THAT IS, BUT LIKE NOW YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE COPILOTS THAT CAN BE A SOFTWARE ENGINEER FOR ALL OF US.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I SAID, HEY, I WANT TO CREATE A NEW KIND OF GAME THAT I CAN PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS AND I HAVE THIS IDEA OF SOMETHING THAT I CAN POSSIBLY DO, I WILL THEN CREATE THAT GAME AND I CAN HAVE AN A.I.

SOFTWARE HELP CREATED FOR ME, AND THAT IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF LOTS.

IT COULD BE DOING RESEARCH, IT COULD BE FIGURING OUT HOW I WANT TO HAVE A HOME AT TO COORDINATE WITH MY FAMILY.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE -- WE ARE NOW ALL GOING TO HAVE A SOFTWARE AGENT, COPILOT WITHIN A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF YEARS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT SUPER AGENCY, AND YOU SAY THAT -- IN THIS BOOK, THAT A.I.

WILL ENHANCE HUMAN AGENCY.

BUT SO MUCH OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH SOCIAL MEDIA RECENTLY AND WITH DIGITAL REVOLUTION IN GENERAL SEEMS TO HAVE REDUCED OUR AGENCY IN SOME WAYS.

IT HAS MADE IT HARDER FOR US TO BE IN CONTROL OF OUR LIVES.

EXPLAIN THAT AND WHAT CAN BE DONE.

>> PART OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ADVOCATE FOR IN THE BOOK AND KIND OF HOW TECHNOLOGIES BUILDINGS, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD WANT OR THINGS TO INCREASE OUR AGENCY?

PART OF THAT IS TO SAY IMAGINE YOU HAD AN AGENT THAT WAS ON YOUR SIDE AND YOU ARE READING SOMETHING FOR YOU, AND ESSENTIALLY ENABLING YOU, AND YOU READ SOMETHING AND YOU SAY, I AM NOT SURE THAT IS QUITE RIGHT, AND THEN THE AGENT WOULD SAY HERE ARE THREE THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER AS INTERESTING SOURCES TO FIGURE THIS OUT, OR, HEY, WERE BELIEVING THIS THING THAT YOU ARE READING OR IF YOU ARE SEEING, HERE ARE SOME THINGS TO CROSSCHECK.

FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE ALREADY SEEING WITH A.I.

IS LIKE CYBER CRIMINAL FISHING.

SO, YOU GET A PHONE CALL TRYING TO PERSUADE YOU THAT YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER, CHILD, PARTNER, ET CETERA -- SAYS HEY, SEND MONEY TO HEAR.

HE WILL ALSO HAVE AN AGENT THAT SAYS, OH, HEY, THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE NOT GOOD FOR YOU.

WHY DON'T YOU ASK SOMETHING THAT ONLY THE TWO OF YOU KNOW IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE, IT COULD BE PART OF THE PROTECTION.

AND THIS IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE ARE BUILDING TWO AS WE GO THROUGH THESE TRANSITIONS TO THE OTHER SIDE.

>> AND HOW WILL A.I.

THEN HELP US WITH THIS INFORMATION IN GENERAL?

THE TYPE OF DISINFORMATION THAT IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL NOW, BUT SEEMS TO BE UNDERMINING OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS A DEEPLY POLITICAL TOPIC.

WHAT COUNTS AS MISINFORMATION, WHAT COUNTS AS DISINFORMATION, THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT VIEWS ON, AND COMING TO A COHERENT SENSE OF VIEWS THERE FOR THE BULK OF AMERICA IS ACTUALLY VERY DIFFICULT.

THAT BEING SAID, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS THAT THESE AGENTS CAN ACTUALLY IN FACT BE ON OUR SIDE, HELPING LIKE FACT CHECK AND DO OTHER KINDS OF THINGS.

TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE READING SOME INFORMATION ON SOME MEDIA SITE OR SOCIAL MEDIA SITE THAT SAYS VACCINES ARE KNOWN TO BE VERY DANGEROUS, AND THEY PLANT CHIPS AND YOU AND THE CAUSE AUTISM.

I WOULD SAY ACTUALLY IN FACT, HERE IS WHAT DIFFERENT SCIENTIFIC STUDIES SHOW, HERE IS WHAT SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO CHALLENGE THEM SAY, AND HERE'S HOW YOU CAN INFORM YOURSELF IN A GOOD WAY.

AND I THINK THAT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT WE WANT THESE AGENTS TO BE HELPING US WITH.

AND PART OF IT IS IF YOU HAVE AN AGENT THAT IS KIND OF SAYING, HEY, LOOK OUT FOR ME WHEN I AM DOING THIS, AND I GO, HEY, I HAVE SEEN THIS AGENT LOOK OUT TO ME IN VARIOUS WAYS, LIKE LOOK OUT FOR ME IN TERMS OF MY HEALTH, LOOK OUT FOR ME IN TERMS OF MAKING FINANCIAL DECISIONS OR READING MY RENTAL LEASE, THEN I TRUST IT AND TELLING ME THESE THINGS, TOO, AND THAT IS PART OF MY VOTE, AS WE WORK OUR WAY THROUGH THE TRANSITION, THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE MORE OF A COMMON BASED KNOWLEDGE APPROACH THAT WE CAN THEN BE FINDING MORE THINGS.

HERE IS HOW WE CAN GET TO AGREEMENT AND REALIZE WHAT THIS INFORMATION POSSIBLY IS.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT REGULATION, I JUST CAME BACK FROM EUROPE, AND IN PARIS, THEY HAD THE A.I.

SUMMIT.

IN THE PREVIOUS A.I.

SUMMITS, IT HAD ALL BEEN HOW ARE WE GOING TO REGULATE THIS CUSTOMER NOW IN EUROPE, THEY ARE TOTALLY PANICKED THAT ONE OF THEIR A.I.

COMPANIES WHICH COMPETES WITH CHATGPT, IS GOING TO BE HINDERED BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH REGULATION.

IF THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF COMPETITION AND A WHOLE LOT OF COMPANIES AND A LOT OF COUNTRIES, FROM CHINA TO FRANCE DOING IT, HOW CAN WE REGULATE IT?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT FIRST OFF, WE SHOULD TRY TO TAKE ADDITIONAL REGULATION VERY FOCUSED.

IT'S LIKE HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT CRIMINALS, TERRORISTS, ROGUE STATES AREN'T DOING THINGS?

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T MAKE SOME CRITICAL, LARGE ERA?

NOT HOW DO WE COVER EVERY SINGLE THING, NOT HOW DO WE HAVE IT NOT DO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE LIKE A HALLUCINATION OR A MISSTATEMENT OF SOME KIND OF FACT OR OTHER KINDS OF THINGS.

LOOK, WE CAN ADJUST THOSE AS WE DEVELOP.

AND PART OF WHAT I THINK IS REALLY GOOD, I THINK THE DIVERSITY OF MULTIPLE THINGS -- I ACTUALLY PERSONALLY THINK THAT ACTUALLY HAVING THE FRENCH, THE BRITISH, THE GERMANS , THE ITALIANS ACTUALLY IN THIS AND HELPING SHAPE THAT, I THINK HELPS IT BE FOR MORE HUMANITY GENERALLY.

IF ANY ONE CULTURE ONLY HAS ITS OWN LENS, AND AS MUCH AS OF COURSE YOU AND I LOVE TO HAVE A LOT OF DEEP AMERICAN VALUES IN AMERICAN CULTURE, PART OF THE REASON IS BECAUSE WE LEARN FROM OTHERS AS WELL.

IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK ARE OUR ASPIRATIONAL AMERICAN VALUES, SO I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING, SO I THINK REGULATION IS POSSIBLE, IT SHOULD BE DONE SPECIFICALLY, SLOWLY, LEARNING AS WE ARE DOING IT.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN IN SUPPORT OF DEMOCRATS, I THINK YOU SUPPORTED KAMALA HARRIS, BUT SO MANY OF THE TECH BRO FRIENDS YOU HAVE FROM SILICON VALLEY HAVE NOW BEEN FLOCKING TO WASHINGTON, ELON MUSK BEEN VERY INVOLVED WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, BUT SO MANY OTHERS.

WHAT CAUSED THIS SHIFT IN THE SILICON VALLEY MENTALITY, AND DO YOU WORRY WHEN YOU SEE AN AN OPERATION THAT HAS ALL TECH BRO'S SITTING IN FRONT OF THE CABINET?

>> I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS.

IF I SAID ANY GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING THE AMERICAN, IS DEEPLY TALKING TO THE TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY ABOUT HOW THE FUTURE IS, I WOULD SAY THAT IS GOOD, AND THAT INCLUDES OUR CURRENT ADMINISTRATION AND SO ON.

NOW, I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS WHY A LOT OF TECHNOLOGISTS SAID, HEY, WE ARE GOING TO WORK WITH THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, IS NOT JUST BECAUSE IT WAS COMPLETELY, FAIRLY, AND DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED, BUT ALSO, IT IS SAYING, HEY, YOU ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY IS IMPORTANT, ABOUT HOW WE CREATE THE FUTURE JOBS, THE FUTURE INDUSTRY, THE FUTURE SERVICES THAT HELP US AND BECOME PART OF WHAT WE CAN EXPORT TO THE WORLD, THAT IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS.

AND IF YOU HAVE ONE PARTY ARGUING THAT THAT IS GOOD AND ONE PARTY ARGUING THAT THAT IS BAD, THE INDUSTRY -- YOU KNOW, THE TECH INDUSTRY WILL BE IN AND SOME PERCENTAGE TO THE PARTY THAT ARGUES THAT THAT IS GOOD.

>> YOU WERE ALSO INVOLVED IN THE LAWSUIT AGAINST TRUMP, I THINK YOU HELPED WITH EIJI AND CAROL, AND HE HAS BECOME VERY VINDICTIVE AGAINST EVEN THE LAW FIRMS THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.

DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT REVENGE AND VINDICTIVENESS, THE BULLYING THAT WE SOMETIMES SEE COMING OUT OF WASHINGTON?

>> WELL, OF COURSE I DO, I THINK IT IS ONLY HUMAN AND NATURAL TO DO SO.

WHEN HE REMOVED MARK MILLEY'S PROTECTION DETAIL, YOU KNOW, A GENERAL WHO HAS PUT HIS WHOLE LIFE IN SERVICE OF THE U.S. AND ENGAGED IN CONFLICT AROUND THE WORLD, AND WHO IS A TARGET OF ESSENTIALLY THE OPPONENTS OF AMERICA, LAKE HURON, YOU KNOW, IF HE IS WILLING TO DO THAT, WHAT ELSE IS HE WILLING TO DO, THAT IS OF COURSE VERY DEEPLY CONCERNING.

>> I AM GOING TO READ A SENTENCE THAT REALLY STRUCK ME IN YOUR BOOK, WHICH IS, "I MAINTAINING OUR DEVELOPMENT LEAD, WE ARE INFUSING A.I.

TECHNOLOGIES WITH DEMOCRATIC VALUES AND INNOVATING THESE TECHNOLOGIES ACROSS SOCIETY IN WAYS THAT BOLSTER OUR ECONOMIC POWER, OUR NATIONAL SECURITY, AND OUR ABILITY TO BROADLY PROJECT OUR GLOBAL INFLUENCE.

EXPLAIN WHY YOU THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE U.S. TO MAINTAIN THE LEAD, WHILE ALSO INFUSING IT WITH OUR VALUES?

>> SO, TECHNOLOGY SHAPED THE WORLD.

AND PART OF THE REASON WHY THE KIND OF EUROPEANS HAD GLOBAL IMPACTS FOR CENTURIES, IS THEY WERE THE FIRST DEVELOPERS AND BROUGHT DOCTORS OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.

THIS IS A COGNITIVE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.

THE SAME THING IS GOING TO SHAPE -- LIKE WHAT ARE THE INDUSTRIES THAT POWER AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT KIND OF EFFECT, IN TERMS OF THE SHAPE OF TECHNOLOGY, HOW WE NAVIGATE THE WORLD?

YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF INFORMATIONAL GPS.

AND SO, A SYSTEM THAT SAYS, HEY, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT INDIVIDUALS HAVE AUTONOMY, OF AGENCY, THAT WE MAKE DECISIONS AS A COLLECTIVE GROUP TOGETHER, WITH A KIND OF DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, IS I THINK SOME OF THE GREAT THINGS THAT AMERICA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BROUGHT TO THE WORLD, AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE CONTINUE TO ELABORATE THEM.

THE WAY WE DO THAT IS BY BEING ON THE FOREFRONT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY.

SOMETIMES WHEN I AM REALLY TRYING TO PUSH THIS POINT HOME WITHIN A KIND OF AMERICAN CONTEXT, IS WE WANT A.I.

TO BE AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE.

>> REID HOFFMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> WALTER, ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

>>> AND FINALLY, IT WAS A DAY THAT SHOCKED AMERICA AND BECAME A TURNING POINT IN THE FIGHT FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

60 YEARS ON, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE RETURNED TO THE EDMUND PETTIS BRIDGE IN SELMA, ALABAMA WHERE IN 1965, LAW OFFICERS BRUTALLY ATTACKED PEACEFUL ACTIVISTS AS THEY MARCHED, AN INCIDENT THAT BECAME KNOWN AS BLOODY SUNDAY.

THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW MONTHS LATER, GUARANTEEING BLACK AMERICANS THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

IT IS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER TODAY AS MANY LOOK TO AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE FOR ANTIDISCRIMINATION POLICIES.

>>> THAT IS IT FOR US FOR NOW, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE.