June 10, 2019

> HELLO, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

> MEXICO TARIFFS ARE OFF THE TABLE FOR NOW.

BUT WHAT IS IT PROMISING AND WHAT DOES THE U.S. GAIN?

I SPEAK TO THE FORMER AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES.

THEN THE MU MAN COST OF THE SHOWDOWN OF THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER.

WE LOOK AT THE DIRE STATE OF THE DETENTION FACILITIES AND HOW ONE NON-PROFIT HAS BUILT A FINANCIAL EMPIRE HOUSING CHILD MIGRANTS.

PLUS.

I AM LOOKING THROUGH AND REALIZING NO ONE LOOKS LIKE ME OR MY FAMILY.

WHY?

BECAUSE I'M BROWN.

FORMER TEEN VOGUE EDITOR SHARES HER MESSAGE OF EMPOWERMENT.

> AND WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS KICKING OFF, ANNOUNCING A CRISIS, THREATENING PUNISHMENT, DECLARING VICTORY.

MEXICO IS TAKING A WHIRLWIND OF THREATS AND TALKS BETWEEN WHAT ARE AMERICAN ALLIES.

IT ALL STARTED RIGHT HERE IN LONDON WHEN DURING HIS STATE VISIT TO THE UNITED KINGDOM, THE PRESIDENT TOOK AIM AT MIGRATION WITH A TRADE WEAPON, WARNING MEXICO IF IT DIDN'T STOP CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS, HE'D SLAP ON TARIFFS UP TO 25% ON IMPORTED GOODS.

A MOVE EVEN HIS OWN FELLOW REPUBLICANS COULDN'T STOMACH.

AFTER INTENSIVE TALKS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND MEXICO, PRESIDENT TRUMP BACKED OFF HIS TERROR THREAT, HAILING A NEW DEAL TO LIMIT MIGRATION ON FRIDAY.

BUT THE 'NEW YORK TIMES' SAYS OFFICIALS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE NEGOTIATIONS CLAIM THE DEAL MAY INCLUDE PLEDGES THAT WERE ALREADY MADE BY THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT MONTHS AGO.

FIRING BACK, PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLED THEIR REPORTING A HIT JOB.

SO WHAT'S REALLY CHANGED?

I AM JOINED NOW BY ARTURO SOLOCON, A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE MEXICAN INSTITUTE FROM WASHINGTON.

AMBASSADOR, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT CAN I SAY TO YOU?

CERTAINLY THESE DATES I WOULD LIKE TO BE IN MEXICO.

I ASK YOU WHY, WHAT HAVE THESE TARIFFS DONE TO BOTH COUNTRIES?

IT'S VERY PAINFUL TO SEE A PRESIDENT SINGLE HANDEDLY SCUFFLEING WHAT HAS BEEN BUILT IN THE U.S.-MEXICO COUNTRIES, MIXING APPLES AND ORANGES, TRADE AND IMMIGRATION POLICY, NOT ONLY WOULD HE HAVE CLAIMED A SELF INFLICTED WOUND, REMEMBER, MEXICO IN THIS FIRST QUARTER OF 2019 HAS BECOME NOW THE LARGEST TRADING PARTNER OF THE UNITED STATES.

ALSO BY CONTAMINATING A VERY COMPLEX AGENDA, HE COULD DERAIL THE HUGE ADVANCES IN A VERY COMPLEX RELATIONSHIP, LIKE THE ONE THAT EXISTS BETWEEN THESE TWO NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED SINCE NAFTA, 1993.

QUICKLY IN TERMS OF DOLLARS AND CENTS AND HUMAN CAPITAL AND EMPLOYMENT AND THE LIKE, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF A 5% TARIFF AND 5% UP TO 25% HAD BEEN IMPOSED?

WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD IT HAVE MADE TO AMERICAN CONSUMERS AND MEXICAN CONSUMERS?

FIRST OF ALL, ONE OF THE THINGS PRESIDENT TRUMP SEEMS TO FORGET AFTER BEING ON A MEXICO BASHING, IS MEXICO AND THE UNITED STATES HAVE DEVELOPED INTEGRATED SUPPLY AND PRODUCTION CHAINS, WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

IT MEANS THAT OUT OF EVERY DOLLAR OF MEXICAN EXPORTS TO THE UNITED STATES, 40 CENTS ARE OF U.S. INPUT, U.S. CONTENT.

SO IF YOU ARE SLAPPING A 5%, 25% TARIFF ON PECKS CAN EXPORTS, YOU ARE SLAPPING THAT ON ALL THE U.S. IMPORTS GOING INTO EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR OF MEXICAN EXPORTS.

SO IT'S NOT ONLY AVOCADOS AND YOUR FAVORITE MEXICAN BEER.

IT'S WHAT HAPPENS TO EVERYTHING FROM CARS TO ADVANCED THEIR COMPONENTS TO HEAVY MACHINERY, SURGICAL AND MEDICAL EQUIPMENT.

IT WILL HAVE A HUGE COST ON CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.

I THINK A 5% TARIFF WAS RIDEABLE.

I WAS ONE THAT DID NOT WANT MEXICO TO BEND THE KNEE TO TRUMP'S ULTIMATUMS I THINK IN PART OF THE DEPRESIDENTISHIAITION THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

THAT WOULD HAVE OFFSET THE 5% TARIFF AND REALLY MOBILIZED THOSE U.S. CONSTITUENCIES, GOVERNORS, MEXICANS, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN'T DO THIS WHEN YOU'VE GOT 28 STATES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAVE MEXICO AS THEIR NUMBER 1 TRADING PARTNER.

OKAY.

AMBASSADOR, YOU SAID YOU WOULD HAVE ADVISED TO RIDE OUT A 5%. WHAT IF IT HAD GONE UP TO 25%. FURTHERMORE, IT LOOKS LIKE PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BROUGHT THE MEXICANS TO THE TABLE.

HAS PROPERTY YOUR PRESIDENT TO THE TABLE AND HE IS DECLAREING A VICTORY BECAUSE OF THESE NEW DETAILS IN THE MIGRANTS AND FLOW OF CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS.

IF IT TOOK THAT PUNISHMENT AS YOU CALL IT BENDING THE KNEE, IS IT A VICTORY FOR THE UNITED STATES AND A DEFEAT FOR YOU?

I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY A POLITICAL ELECTORAL.

THE PRESIDENT WILL DISPLAY IT AS A VICTORY OVER THE DETAILS SHOW A LOT OF WHAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED BETWEEN MEXICO AND THE UNITED STATES FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW IS A PART OF THIS SIGNED AGREEMENT PUT OUT FRIDAY NIGHT THERE ARE ISSUES THERE BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING FOR SOME TIME, EXPANDED MAN POWER ON THE MEXICAN BORDER.

IT IS CLEAR MEXICO DESPITE TRUMP'S THREATS HAS TO DO MORE TO CONTROL ITS ABILITY TO CONTROL AND REGULATE WHO COMES IN AND WHO DOESN'T COME IN ALONG OUR BORDERS AND WE NEED TO DO THIS IN A WAY THAT ENSURES THAT OUR OWN PRINCIPLES ON ASYLUM AND REFUGEE ARE NOT BEING UNDERMINED.

SOME OF THIS WAS ALREADY BEING DISCUSSED.

SOME HAS BEEN AGREED TO IN THIS AGREEMENT.

OBVIOUSLY, THE PRESIDENT IS SELLING THIS TO HIS BASE AS A DIPLOMATIC TRIUMPH.

I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOUR OWN FOREIGN MINISTER SAID ABOUT THIS WHEN ASKED ABOUT WHO IS UP AND WHO IS DOWN AFTER THIS DEAL.

Reporter: DO YOU THINK THE UNITED NATIONS GOT THE BETTER END OF THE DEAL OR DO YOU THINK IT'S A FAIR BALANCE FOR THE U.S.?

I THINK A FAIR BALANCE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE DRASTIC AM MEASURES AT THE START WE REACHED SOME MIDDLE POINT.

Y YES.

YOU CAN SEE YOUR FOREIGN MINISTER LOOKS A BIT CHENEY, I WONDER WHAT YOU HEARD THROUGH YOUR OWN GRAPE59 OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND DPOFRT WAS THINKING WHEN THIS THREAT WAS MADE, YOU SAID YOU WOULD NOT APPROVE OF HIM TAKING A KNEE IN FRONT OF THE OF THESE THREATS.

WHAT IS THE REACTION TO WHAT HE'S DONE IN MEXICO?

FIRST OF ALL, THE MEXICANS ACHIEVED TO OBJECTIVES AS A RESULT OF THESE CONVERSATIONS.

THE FIRST IS WE ENSURED THE USMCA, THE REVAMPED NAFTA, THE INTERSIGNIFICANT COMMISSION SURVIVE TO FIGHT ON THE DAY.

THE PRESIDENT DID NOT LEVY BOTH COUNTRIES, WHICH WOULD HAVE HURT BOTH COUNTRIES.

THE SECOND ONE IS MEXICO AGREED TO A SAFE THIRD COUNTRY AGREEMENT WHICH MEANS BASICALLY THAT MIGRANTS COMING INTO MEXICAN TERRITORY HAVE TO REQUEST ASYLUM IN MEXICO.

THAT HAS BEEN A DEMAND FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

THE U.S. WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR THIS.

THAT IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS REFERRING TO IN HIS MORNING RANT VIA TWITTER.

SO BUT THESE ARE TWO VERY IMPORTANT OBJECTIVES.

NEXT MEXICO WAS ABLE TO DEFANG THESE THREATS.

THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A MIXED SENSE HERE.

MEXICAN PUBLIC OPINION I THINK IN GENERAL IS CONCERNED YOU HAVE NOW A PRESIDENT WHO WILL BE ROLLING OUT THE THREAT OF PUNITIVE TARIFFS ON A HOST OF ISSUES PARTICULARLY AS WE REACH THE HIGH POINT OF HIS RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

WHERE HE WILL CONTINUE TO DO WHATEVER HE CAN SINCE HE RAN USING MEXICO AS A PINIATA TO FIRE UP HIS BASE.

GIVEN THE FACT YOU KNOW THIS, THE IDEA OF MIGRATION AND THE BORDER ARE HIS FIXATIONS.

THAT IS HIS POLITICAL BASE.

IT'S WHAT HE'S RUN ON.

THIS ISSUE IS A THOUSAND PERCENT HIS ISSUE AND HE BELIEVES IT WORKS AT THE POLLS.

SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, FROM THE BEGINNING, LET'S PUT UP A GRAPH FOR THE MOMENT TO SHOW THE RECORD NUMBER OF MIGRANTS ACROSS THE BORDER AND APPREHENSION IN MAY OF THIS YEAR.

IT WAS A HUGE SPIKE.

THE MOST IN MANY, MANY YEARS.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHY WOULDN'T MEXICO HAVE DONE MORE?

WOULD IT HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO TO MDO MORE BEFORE YOU GOT TO THIS THREATS, PUNISHMENT AND TALKS SITUATION?

THERE IS NO DOUBT WITH THE BEGINNING, THE START OF THE NEW GOVERNMENT, THERE IS A INTERNAL LACK OF COORDINATION, IN PART, BECAUSE YOU ALSO HAVE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES IN MEXICO THAT ARE BEING THEIR BUDGETS, PARTICULARLY THE IMMIGRATION AUTHORITY AND THE REFUGEE AUTHORITY, THEIR BUDGETS HAVE BEEN SLASHED AS A PART OF A BROADER US A TERRITORY AND THAT HAS HURT MEXICO'S ABILITY TO DO MORE AS IT SHOULD AS A PARTNER TO THE UNITED STATES.

THE OTHER THING IS YOU SHOULDN'T FORGET ALONG THE GRAPH THAT YOU HAVE JUST SHOWN OF ARRESTS ON THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER.

MEXICO IN THE FIRST SIX MONTHS OF 2019 HAS BEEN DOING AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS, WHICH IS DEPORTING BACK TO CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES, ALMOST 75,000 CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS.

SO MEXICO HAS NOT BEEN SITTING ON ITS HAND EITHER.

THE PROBLEM IS YOU CAN'T FORCE YOUR WAY OUT OF THE MIGRANT SITUATION.

IT WILL TAKE TIME, COMMITMENT AND IT WILL TAKE RESOURCES AND ADDRESSING SOME OF THE DRIVERS OF THESE TRANSMIGRATION TRENDS FROM CENTRAL AMERICA INTO MEXICO AND ON THEIR WAY TO THE UNITED STATES.

MAINLY PUBLIC SECURITY AND SOME OF THE EFFECTS FOR PER THE CLIMATE CHANGE PATTERNS HITTING RURAL PARTS OF THE TRIANGLE COUNTRIES IN HONDURAS AND GUATEMALA.

WHICH IS SORT OF DRIVING A COMBINATION OF URBAN MIGRATION FLEEING AND SECURITY AND RURAL MIGRATION FLEEING LACK OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES.

WELL, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.

I WANTED TO PUT YOU SOMETHING SECRETARY OF STATE POMPEO SAID ABOUT IN ISSUE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

MANY HAVE SAID THIS IS ONE OF THE DRIVERS IT DOES FUEL THE CROP XALIERS, ET CETERA, ET S CETERA ESSENTIALLY SAID ACCORDING TO 'TIMES' MR. POMPEO SPOKE MORE BROADLY AND AS A RESULT SOCIETIES WE ORGANIZE, WE MOVE TO DIFFERENT PLACES, AFTER TECHNOLOGY AND INNOVATION.

I GUESS THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING, THAT IS WHAT CENTRAL AMERICA SOCIETY IS DOING.

YOU SEE THE IRONY.

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

THIS WILL BE AN ISSUE THAT WILL GET WORSE NOT BETTER.

I THINK IT'S THE PROVERBIAL TWISTING AND NEGATE CLIMATE CHANGE TO IMPACT MIKE GROEGS AND YET PEOPLE ARE ADAPTING BY PACKING UP THEIR STUFF AND TREKKING NORTH.

IF TO THAT YOU ADD OBVIOUSLY THE ROLE OF HUMAN SMUGGLING PEOPLE PIGGY BACK AND MAKE A BUCK SAYING IT'S NOW OR NEVER THERE IS A PLAY IN GROUP TWO.

WE CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE CLIMATE WARMING IS HAPPENING WITHIN LATIN AMERICA IN GENERAL AND TOWARDS THE UNITED STATES IN PARTICULAR FROM THE NORTHERN TRIANGLE TO CENTRAL AMERICA.

YOU ALLUDED TO QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE NEXT.

WHEN WILL THE HAMMER FALL AGAIN?

HE DID SAY THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER DEAL WITH MEXICO.

HE SAID THE FOLLOWING, WE HAVE FULLY DOCUMENTED A SECURITY DEAL WITH MEXICO, ONE THE U.S. HAS BEEN ASKING ABOUT FOR MANY YEARS IT WILL BE REVEALED.

WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE A PROBLEM WITH THE VOTE.

BUT IF FOR ANY REASON THE APPROVAL IS NOT FORTHCOMING, TERRORISTS WILL BE REINSTATED.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE TOLD?

IS THIS THE THIRD PARTY ASYLUM?

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WANTS NEXT?

WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP IN HIS TWEETS, THERE ARE LIES AND HALF LIES.

THE LIES WAS HIS TWEET ON FRIDAY THE UNITED STATES AGREED TO BUY AG AND IT'S NOT ON A SIDE LETTER.

THAT ISSUE IS NOT DISCUSSED.

AG EXPORTS WILL GROW IF THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T TORPEDO THE ABILITY OF THE U.S. CONGRESS, THE CANADIAN PARLIAMENT OF GETTING USMCA RATIFIED.

THIS ONE TODAY IS A HALF LIE, SHE REFERRING TO TRYING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THE THIRD SAFE COUNTRY AGREEMENT WITH MEXICO, IF SUCH A DEAL WERE TO BE PUT ON THE TABLE AND IF MEXICO WERE TO ACCEPT THAT, IT WOULD REQUIRE CONGRESSIONAL CONSULTATIONS AND RECITATIONS WITH MEXICO.

WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING IS IF IN 90 DAYS WE DON'T SEE PROGRESS, WE WILL PUT THIS ISSUE BACK ON THE TABLE.

HE IS SAY FIGURE THE MEXICAN CONGRESS WEREN'T TO RATIFY THIS, I WILL AGAIN USE THE ISSUE OF TARIFFS.

SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

WE SEEN HE'S DONE IT ONCE.

LET'S FACE IT, HIS OWN REPUBLICANS DIDN'T LIKE THIS IDEA.

OBVIOUSLY, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, NANCY PELOSI TWEETED AGAINST IT, SAYING TEMPER TANTRUMS AND THREATS ARE NO WAY TO CONDUCT FOREIGN POLICY, IN A WAY, HAVE YOU THIS DEAL.

SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF HE DOESN'T GET THIS THIRD SAFE COUNTRY AND IT DOESN'T GET PUT THROUGH THE CONGRESS OF MEXICO.

HE THREATENS MORE TARIFFS, WHAT DO YOU DO?

WHAT DOES MEXICO DO?

AGAIN ATHINK WE SHOULD NOT BLINK, WE HAVE TO DO JUJITSU WITH ONE OF MEXICO'S STRONGER POINTS OF CONTAINMENT OF THIS PRESIDENT WHICH IS THE STATES AND THE GOVERNORS AND THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO WILL EMPHATIC ALLY PUSH BACK AGAINST TARIFFS LEVRIED ON ALL MEXICAN IMPORTS IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE OF DISRUPTIVE ECONOMIC EFFECT THAT WILL HAVE ON THE U.S. ECONOMY.

I THINK WE NEED TO HOLD OUR GROUND, NOT BLINK, ENSURE WE ARE NEGOTIATING ON PARALLEL TRACKS.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT MIXING TRADE WITH IMMIGRATION.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT WOULD DO.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE LEVERAGE THESE ALLIANCES WE HAVE ACROSS THE BOARD AND THE UNITED STATES TO PUSH BACK AGAINST A PRESIDENT WHO SINGLE HANDEDLY IS THREATENING NOT ONLY USCA, THE FUTURE OF MEXICANS, THERE COULD BE MANY WHO LOVES MEXICO BECAUSE THE WILLINGNESS OF MEXICO TO CONTINUE BUILDING THE STRATEGIC BUILDING RELATIONSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO EVAPORATE.

WHERE DOES MEXICO TURN THEN, IF IT'S NOT WITH THE UNITED STATES?

WELL IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF AND/OR.

THE TRADE DYNAMICS, AGAIN I THINK HE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REACH A SLAP OF TARIFFS ON MEXICO.

THE DOMESTIC PUSHBACK IN THE UNITED STATES, REMEMBER MEXICO UPGRADED ITS FREE TRADE AGREEMENT WITH EUROPEAN UNIONS.

WE ARE A PART OF REVAMPED TCP.

MEXICO AND CHILE HAVE THE LARGEST NETWORK OF FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS IN THE WORLD.

IT IS QUITE REMARKABLE TO SEE HOW THE CURRENT POLITICAL DYNAMICS ARE CAUSING SHIFTS IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES LOOKING AT OTHER OPTIONS TO CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP.

AMBASSADOR FARRAKHAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME FROM WASHINGTON.

IT'S A GREAT PLEASURE.

THANK YOU.

> OF COURSE, NOW, WE WILL TURN TO THE HUMANITARIAN DISASTER.

SOME 130,000 MIKE GRANTS AS I SAID WERE CAUGHT CROSSING THE BORDER LAST MONTH, INCLUDING 11,000 MINORS.

THESE ARE LEVELS NOT SEEN IN A DECADE.

THE SURGE COMES AS DILAPIDATED, DIRTY AND UNSAFE CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED AT SOME DETENTION CENTERS, ACCORDING TO REPORT BY THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

JUST LAST MONTH ANOTHER CHILD MIGRANT DIED IN U.S. CUSTODY, THAT IS SIX CHILD DEATHS IN LESS THAN A YEAR, TAKING CARE OF THE CHILDREN IS A $1 BILLION MARKET.

SOUTHWEST HAS BEEN AWARDED $955 MILLION OF FEDERAL CONTRACTS TO RUN SHELTERS SINCE 2015.

BUT IT'S FACED FEDERAL INVESTIGATIONS OVER ALLEGED FINANCIAL IMPROPRIETY.

REPORTS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS.

ALSO WITH US IS DR. SCOTT ALLEN WHO BLEW THE WHISTLE ON THE APPALLING CONDITIONS IN I.C.E.

DETENTION CENTERS.

HE IS NOW REPRESENTED BY THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT AND HE'S COMING TO US FROM CALIFORNIA.

SO.

GEN, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

LET ME FIRST ASK YOU NICHOLAS COOLIDGE, WHAT CONDITIONS YOU DISCOVERED?

YOU BROKE THIS STORY ABOUT THE SOUTHWEST KEY PROGRAMS WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES, GIVE US WHAT YOU FOUND OUT.

SURE.

WHAT WE DISCOVERED WAS THAT THIS NON-PROFIT, THIS CHARITY IF YOU WILL WAS ACTUALLY A MONEY-MAKING MACHINE PAYING THE CEO $1.5 MILLION A YEAR.

CFO $1 MILLION A YEAR.

WHICH RESULT MEANT THE CHILDREN ARE NOT GETTING EVERYTHING THEY NEEDED, SUBPAR FOOD, SUBPAR MEDICAL CARE.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE KIND OF CONTROLS TO MAKE SURE THE RIGHT PEOPLE WERE TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN, WHICH RESULTED IN SEXUAL ABUSE ALLEGATIONS, PHYSICAL ABUSE ALLEGATION, THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS THERE.

WILL YOU TALK ABOUT THE INCREDIBLE NON-PROFIT, THE SALARIES GIVEN TO THE CEO AND CFO.

WE KNOW THE CEO DID STEP DOWN EARLIER THIS YEAR HOW DID HA HAPPEN?

THIS PROGRAM, LET'S FACE IT, BEGAN IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

IT BEGAN IN 2015.

WHAT'S BEEN THE CHANGE?

WHY HAS THIS JUST COME TO ATTENTION?

PHYSICAL LAS?

I MEAN I THINK PARTLY IT WAS THE CHILD CELEBRATIONS.

RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, WHEN CHILDREN WERE BEING SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES, PUT INTO THESE INSTITUTIONS IT MEENT PEOPLE WILL TAKE A BETTER LOOK.

THE WALMART, WHAT BETTER SYMBOL CHILDREN ARE BEING STREET E TREATED THEY ARE STACKED UP IN A FORMER WALMART SUPER STORE.

THAT LED US AND OTHER JOURNALISTS TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT WHAT WAS HAPPENING INSIDE A KEY WEST PROGRAM.

ESSENTIALLY ARE YOU A WHISTLEBLOWER.

YOU REPORTED A LOT OF THESE TERRIBLE CONDITIONS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS TERMINOLOGY, BUT THE LA TIMES WROTE ABOUT IT AS THEY CALLED IT CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

THEY SAID YOU MAY RECOIL AT THAT TERM.

BUT YOU SHOULD RECOIL, YOU BEING THE PUBLIC.

I MEAN, REALLY, WAS IT THAT BAD?

IS IT THAT BAD?

NO, FIRST, CHRISTIAN, I SHOULD CLARIFY FOR YOUR AUNTS THAT THE CENTERS I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR INSPECTING WERE THE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL CENTERS.

THESE WERE CENTERS DIRECTLY RUN BY THE OFFICE OF CONTRACTORS AND THEY HOUSED MINOR CHILDREN ACCOMPANIED BY AT LEAST ONE PARENT, TYPICALLY ONE PARENT.

SO THEY ARE DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE CENTERS YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

BUT IN ANY CASE, HAVE PARALLEL PROBLEMS IN KEEPING CHILDREN SAFE.

SO LET ME ASK YOU THEN, DO YOU AGREE THAT KIND OF REALLY QUITE POINTED TERMINOLOGY FOR THE ONES THAT NICHOLAS WAS TALKING ABOUT.

I MEAN, IS THAT AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO DESCRIBE THEM?

I THINK THE MA INTHING I CAN TELL YOU IS THEY ARE QUITE UNIFIED IN THE DETENTION OF CHILDREN AND THESE TYPES OF SETTINGS BECAUSE DECADES OF RESEARCH HAVE DEMONSTRATED SUCH DETENTION IS HARMFUL TO BOTH THE MENTAL HEALTH AND THEIR PHYSICAL HEALTH.

SO TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE FOUND IN THESE I.C.E.

DETENTION CENTERS, DOCTORS.

MY COLLEAGUE.

A CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PSYCHOLOGIST, I AM AN INTERNAL MEDICAL EXPERIENCE HAVE BEEN INSPECTING THE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL CENTERS SINCE THE FIRST ONE UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OPENED IN 2014.

FROM THE BEGINNING, WE REPORTED OUR CONCERNS THAT DETENTION OF CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF THE CONDITIONS OF CONFINEMENT IS HARMFUL TO THEIR HEALTH.

IN ADDITION, WE OBSERVED SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS IN MEETING THEIR COMPLEX NEEDS.

WE FOUND PROBLEMS RECRUITING AND RETAINING QUALIFIED PEDIATRICIANS, MEN CAL HEALTH EXPERTS.

THERE WERE PROBLEMS OBTAINIG ADEQUATE INTERPRETATION.

MANY OF THESE CHILDREN SPEAK INDIGITALNOUS LANGUAGES AND INTERPRETATION SERVICES WERE DIFFICULT TO FIND, MAKING THE MEDICAL TRANSACTION VERY FRAUGHT AND RISKY.

AND WE FOUND PROBLEMS WITH THE PHYSICAL DESIGN OF THE FACILITIES, WHICH OFTEN WASN'T WELL PLANNED TO KEEP CHILDREN SAFE.

SO IN ADDITION TO KNOWING THAT DETENTION WAS HARMFUL, YOU FIND THE GOVERNMENT WAS MEETING THE MINIMAL STANDARDS.

SO WHEN YOU REPORTED THIS, YOU SAID THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, WHAT ACTION DID THE GOVERNMENT TAKE?

WELL, THE FIRST PLACE WE INSPECTED IF AR TESSIA IN MEXICO, A GOVERNMENT-RUN FACILITY HAS BEEN PUT TOGETHER UNDER SOME HASTE WHEN THE DECISION WAS MADE TO START DETAINING MINOR CHILDREN WITH A PARENT.

WHAT WE FOUND THERE WERE THE TYPES OF PROBLEMS I DESCRIBED AND REALLY PROBABLY THE MOST COMPELLING WAS THE LACK OF PEDIATRIC MEDICAL SPECIALTY.

SUCH THAT WE IDENTIFIED THE CASE ON SITE OF A SMALL INFANT SUFFERING FROM DIARRHEAL ILLNESS, WELL MEANING, ADULT TRAINED CLINICIANS, THE BABY LOST A CRITICAL AMOUNT OF WEIGHT AND WAS SEVERELY DEHYDRATED, REALLY, WHEN WE IDENTIFIED THE CASE, WE ALERTED THE GOVERNMENT THIS WAS A NEAR MISS.

THE CHILD WELL COULD HAVE DIED OF A SIMPLE AND MEDICAL CONDITION OF DEHYDRATION.

IT WAS AT THAT POINT WE FELT THE SAFETY OF CHILDREN IN THAT FACILITY WAS SO IMPAIRED WE RECOMMEND THEY SHUT DOWN THAT FACILITY AND INDEED THEY DID.

OKAY.

SO.

BEFORE I TURN BACK TO NICHOLAS, I WANT TO ASK YOU WHACT HAPPENS BECAUSE YOU NOW ARE A WHISTLEBLOWER?

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE ZERO TOLERANCE CHILD SEPARATION POLICY?

AS NICHOLAS STATED, A KEY TURNING POINT WITH US EXPERTS WORKING WAS INDEED THE CHILD SEPARATION POLICY.

WHEN THERE WAS PUBLIC PUSHBACK AGAINST THAT POLICY, WE CORRECTLY ANTICIPATED THAT THEIR SOLUTION WOULD PROBABLY BE TO INCREASE FAMILY DETENTION.

WE UNIQUELY UNDERSTOOD THAT RAPIDLY INCREASING FAMILY DETENTION WOULD KNOWINGLY PUT CHILDREN AT RISK OF SIGNIFICANT MEVEN TAM AND PHYSICAL HARM AND AS PHYSICIANS, WE HAD AN OBLIGATION TO RAISE THE ALARM.

WE ENERGY DILY DID SO INTERNALLY AS WE NORMALLY DO WHEN THERE WAS NO TIMELY RESPONSE WE WERE NOTIFYING CONGRESS WITH THE WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION LAWS IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO PHYSICAL LAS, WHISTLE BLOWING CONSISTENT WITH THE LAWS, CONGRESS ALERTED, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE ABOUT IT?

UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THEY ARE SO OVERWHELMED BY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE YOU SHOWED IN THAT GRAPHIC, IT'S LIKE THE PROVERBIAL FIXING OF THE CAR DRIVING ON THE HIGHWAY.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT OPENING MORE AND MORE EMERGENCY SHELTERS AT THIS POINT FOREIGN ACCOMPANIED CHILDREN.

IT'S HARD TO FIND FAMILIES, WHAT YOU SEE ARE PATCHWORK FIXES AND EFFORTS TO STAY AHEAD OF A CRISIS RATHER THAN REALLY A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT A SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO BE OVERHAULED COMPLETELY.

GIVEN THE FACT THE NON-PROFIT, SOUTHWEST KEY, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THEY SEEM TO BE EVADEING ANY ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS, ANY PENALTIES, ANY FINES, ALTHOUGH THE CEO DID STEP DOWN, LIKE IN WARS, IT'S HARD TO GET THE WARLORDS TO STOP FIGHTING.

THEY MAKE PROFIT ON ALL OF THIS.

I WONDER IF THIS WAS A LUCRATIVE BUSINESS FOR THESE ORGANIZATIONS AND YOU KNOW IS THERE ANY REAL ATTEMPT TO ABATE, SEE THIS CRISIS ABATED?

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMERGENCY SHELTER IN FLORIDA, THAT'S BEING RUN BY A FOR PROFIT COMPANY.

SO YOU KNOW WE SORT OF GO FROM NON-PROFITS TO ACTUAL MONEY-MAKING BUSINESSES AND I THINK THAT YOU KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY OUT THERE TO BE MADE ON THIS CRISIS.

SO NO THERE IS NO REAL INCENTIVE TO TRY TO STOP IT FOR THOSE GROUPS.

LOOK, IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO ACTUALLY SAY AND IF BEGGARS BELIEVE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THE RICHEST MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, AT LEAST SIX CHILDREN IN THE LATEST ITERATION HAVE DIED IN DETENTION I MEAN COMMENTS ON THAT.

I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT DEHYDRATION AND STUFF STATE INSPECTORS CHILDREN BEING GIVEN AIN'T DEPRESSANTS, CHILDREN TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE, POOR RECORD KEEPING.

YOU KNOW, ATTENTION TO FOOD ALLERGIES, LANGUAGE DIFFICULTIES.

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE IT IS HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

SO I THINK THE CRITICAL MISTAKE WE'VE MADE IS PRIORITIZING CONFINEMENT TO SEND A POLITICAL MESSAGE OVER WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TRADITIONALLY DONE AT ANY OTHER TIME IN OUR HISTORY WHICH IS TO PRIORITIZE CARE, SAFE AND HEALTH OF THE CHILDREN.

WE SHOULD AMASS A HUMANTARY ASSESSMENT AND EARLY TRIAGE BY QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS AND PLACE THEM IN COMMUNITY SETTINGS WHICH HAS BEEN DONE SAFELY, HISTORICALLY.

AND THAT WOULD RESULT IN SAFER CONDITIONS, NONE OF THAT WOULDED A JUDE INDICATE ASYLUM CLAIM WE PRIORITIZE CARE.

I AM SHOCKED YOU WROTE A LESSON TO LAWMAKERS THIS PAST MARCH, YOU SAID THE FOLLOWING, THE EXPANSION OF DETENTION RESULTED IN INCREASED HARM TO CHILDREN.

YOU SAY THE PRACTICE OF DETAINING CHILDREN AND FAMILIES IS NO LONGER AN ISSUE OF POLICY DISPUTE.

IT IS A WILLFUL POLICY NA KNOWINGLY INFLICTS SERIOUS HARM TO CHILDREN, INCLUDING DEATH.

AGAIN IT IS HARD FOR ME TO READ THIS AND BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING.

A WILLFUL POLICY OF CAUSING HARM TO CHILDREN IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

I MEAN, YOU SAID IT, DOCTOR.

YES, I HAVE WORKED AROUND IMMIGRATION AND DETENTION SETTINGS FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS.

IT SHOCKS ME ALL THE MORE AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THESE FACILITIES, LOOKED INTO THE EYES OF THESE YOUNG WOMEN, THEY'RE YOUNG CHILDREN, OFTEN BOTH VULNERABLE FROM A MEDICAL STANDPOINT.

IT STILL TONS ME TO HAVE REPORTED THESE FINDINGS AND IT'S DEEPLY DISTURBING TO ME YOU REFER TO OUR MARCH LETTER, THE ORIGINAL NOTIFICATION OF CONGRESS CAME BACK IF JULY OF 2018 AND NOT ONLY HAVE THE PRACTICES NOT STOPPED, BUT THE PROGRAM HAS CONTINUED TO EXPAND.

WELL, I MEAN, LOOK, NICHOLAS, YOU ARE DOING GOD'S WORK IN BREAKING THESE STORIES INVESTIGATING IT ALONG WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES, SO MUCH REPORTING, LOCAL REPORTING HAS BEEN DORAN, LOCAL ACTIVISTS, POLITICIAN ACROSS THE BORDER HAVE ALL TRIED TO RAISE THIS RED FLAG AND SCREAM ABOUT THIS EMERGENCY.

YET IT IS CONTINUING.

WHY?

I MEAN, IS THERE -- WHY IS THIS KIND -- THERE ARE DEATHS HAPPENING.

THERE IS A WILLFUL POLICY OF CAUSING HARM TO CHILDREN.

WHY IS THIS NOT BEING, YOU KNOW, TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY, NICHOLAS?

I MEAN MORE THAN JUST CONTINUING, I THINK WE SHOULD AGREE IT'S ACTUALLY GETTING WORSE.

PART OF THE ISSUE IS WHERE YOU USED TO HAVE PEOPLE CROSSING IN THE RIO GRANDE VALLEYS IN CITIES, TEXAS, HAVE YOU MORE AND MORE CROSSING IN THE REMOTE PARTS OF ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.

THEY ARE COMING INTO BORDER CONTROL ALREADY IN MUCH WORSE CONDITION, ALREADY ILL, ALREADY DEHYDRATED.

ALREADY SUFFERING.

AND YOU KNOW, FOR MANY OF THE PEOPLE OF BORDER PATROL, THEY ARE NOT EQUIPPED OR TRAINED TO DEAL WITH CHILDREN IN THIS KIND OF PER IMI THINK TREATING THIS AS A LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUE RATHER THAN A CARE OF MINORS FOR CHILDREN IS A PROBLEM.

ARE YOU FOCUSED ON HOW DO WE TEAL WITH THEM?

HERE'S THE THING, THE WAY THE DIAL MOVES IS TO GIVE VISIBILITY.

RIGHT?

TO HAVE REPORTS LIKE YOURS, TO HAVE WHISTLE-PROCEEDERS LIKE YOU, DOCTOR, BRING THESE THINGS TO LIGHT.

YET I WONDER WHETHER THIS LACK OF VISIBILITY THAT STILL EXISTS, DESPITE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO DO MEANS A LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY TO WIT APPARENTLY THE LAST INSPECTION OF FAMILY DETENTION BY THE OFFICE OF CIVIL RIGHTS, ET CETERA, AND CIVIL LIBERTIES OCCURRED BACK IF 2017.

THAT'S MORE THAN TWO YEARS AGO.

AND THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS GOT RID OF FACT CHECKING GROUPS OR ADVISORY BOARDS WHEN IT DOESN'T LIKE WHAT THEY WERE SAYING.

THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR NATIONAL CLIMATE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, TELL ME, DOCTOR, SINCE ARE YOU THE WHISTLEBLOWER HERE, WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY?

IS IT EASY TO BACK THAT INTO THE SHADOWS?

WELL, IT'S A REALLY KEY QUESTION.

AND, OBVIOUSLY, I STRONGLY BELIEVE IN ACCOUNTABILITY.

I'M ASKING THE SAME QUESTION, WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY?

CLEARLY THE INTERNAL MECHANISMS OF WHICH THE OFFICE OF CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBS HISTORICALLY HAVE BEEN A PART OF WERE NO LONGER WORKING.

THIS IS WHY WE ELEVATED OUR CONCERNS TO CONGRESS.

HOWEVER, IN THE MONTHS SINCE OUR INITIAL DISCLOSURES IN JULY OF LAST YEAR TO THE PRESENT, OTHER THAN BEING ASKED TO QUIETLY BRIEF STAFFERS AND CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES AND SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME LEGISLATORS, THERE HAS YET TO BE HEARINGS SPECIFICALLY ON THIS TOPIC AND MORE IMPORTANTLY NO PARTICULAR EFFORT TO HOLD THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE OR RECOGNIZE THE PRESSING NATURE OF ONGOING HARMS TO CHILDREN.

NICHOLAS, FINALLY, TOO, WE ONLY GOT A LITTLE LESS THAN A MINUTE, THIS IS A POLITICAL ISSUE AS WELL, OBVIOUSLY, THE PRESIDENT HAS HIS BASIS YOU HEARD US TALK TO AMBASSADOR FARRAKHAN YOU KNOW ABOUT THE TARIFFS AND PUNISHMENT FOR THIS MIGRATION.

HOW -- IT REALLY IS RED MEAT TO THE BASE.

SO I MEAN IT'S ALSO A POLITICAL SITUATION.

RIGHT.

I THINK THAT YOU KNOW TO SAY AS THE PRESIDENT DID, WE ARE GOING TO NO LONGER HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOCCER BALLS AND EDUCATION AND LEGAL REPRESENTATION FOR THE CHILDREN IN UNACCOMPANIED MINOR SHELTERS, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WILL BE APPLAUDED BY HIS BASE AND YOU KNOW THESE PLACES LIKE SOUTHWEST KEY, BEFORE THEY WERE VIEWED AS WALMART GULAGS, THEY WERE CRITICIZED AS COUNTRY CLUB FOR CHILDREN BY LEDGES LA ITERS WHO SAW THOSE BENEFITS I JUST DESCRIBED AS THINGS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THEIR LANGUAGE DID NOT DESERVE.

SO I THINK THE IDEA THAT ARE YOU GOING TO SEE A GREAT INVESTMENT OF MONEY IN TRYING TO CARE FOR THESE CHILDREN UNDER THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS PROBABLY UNLIKELY.

WELL, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THESE STORIES COMING.

NICHOLAS COOLIDGE, DR. ALLEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

NOW, THE MISERY OF LIFE AT THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER HAS NOT ESCAPED.

OUR NEXT GUEST WAS THE YOUNGEST EVER EDITOR OF TEEN VOKE.

DURING HER TENURE, SHE READ AN EVOLUTION, PUTTING THE POLITICS OF TODAY'S AMERICA AT THE HEART OF THE PUBLICATION COVERAGE, COMMENT ON IDENTITY, IMMIGRATION, SEXUALITY, CAME TO PUNK YOU CAN WAIT TEEN VOGUE, TYPICAL STORIES ON STYLE, BEAUTY AND FASHION.

SHE DETAILS ALL OF THIS AND THIS TRANSFORMATION IN HER BARRIER BREAK PATH TO SUCCESS WITH HER NEW MEMOIR MORE THAN ENOUGH AND SHE HAS BEEN SPEAKING ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

ELAINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

THERE IS A MOMENT IN THE BOOK.

AND I WANT YOU TO TAKE ME BACK TO THAT MOMENT IN YOUR CHILDHOOD, WHEN ARE YOU GOING THROUGH MAGAZINES, TRYING TO CREATE A PICTURE COLLAGE OF YOUR FAMILY.

HMM.

SO THIS IS ACTUALLY MY VERY FIRST MEMORY IN LIFE.

I WAS IF PRE SCHOOL, SO PROBABLY AROUND 3-YEARS-OLD.

I WAS SITTING AROUND TO SEE KIDS AND THE INSTRUCTORS GAVE US AN ASSIGNMENT, WHICH WAS TO CUT OUT PEOPLE FROM MAGAZINES WHO LOOK LIKE OUR FAMILY AND MAKE A COLLAGE OF OUR FAMILY TO SHOW AND TELL THE CLASSROOM.

AND SO I DIG IN.

I'M LOOKING THROUGH AND I'M REALIZING, NO ONE LOOKS LIKE ME OR MY FAMILY.

BECAUSE?

BECAUSE I'M BROWN.

AND I THEN REALIZE EVERYONE ELSE IS NOT BROWN, EXCEPT ONE BOY IN THE CLASS, WHO IS MEXICAN AND IT INSTANTLY MADE ME FEEL WHAT I NOW KNOW AS OTHER.

AND AS I LOOK THROUGH THOSE PAGES, I RECOGNIZE NOW THAT WHAT I WAS EXPERIENCING WAS FOR THE FIRST TIME A LACK OF REPRESENTATION IN MEDIA.

OBVIOUSLY, DIDN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS, DIDN'T HAVE THOSE TERMS AT 3 YEARS OLD.

I JUST KNEW IT DIDN'T MAKE ME FEEL GOOD AND I ACTUALLY HAD TEACHERS REALIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND COME OVER AND TRY TO POINT ME TO LIKE THE ONE BROWN PERSON IN ONE OF THE MAGAZINES AND SHE POINTED AT THE GIRL AND SAID SHE LOOKS SO PRETTY.

LOOK AT HER, SHE LOOKS JUST LIKE YOU, OH, LOOK AT HER HAIR.

NOTHING LIKE ME.

OKAY.

SHE'S THE ONE BROWN GIRL.

SOMETHING IN ME SO DESPERATELY DID NOT WANT TO BE DIFFERENT THAT I IGNORED HER.

I FROZE UP, AND I KEPT CUTTING OUT PEOPLE AND I MADE ACO LAMB OF A WHITE FAMILY.

HOW DID YOUR MOTHER FEEL ABOUT THAT?

MY MOM WASN'T HAVING THAT, IT WAS AS IF SHE WAS PREPARING HER WHOLE LIFE TO HAVE THIS RACE CONVERSATION.

THERE WAS A FULL ON INTERVENTION.

MY OLDER BROTHER GOOD PULLED INTO IT.

SHE PULLED OUT 'EBONY AND ESSENCE' MAGAZINE AND SAID WE WILL REDO THIS ASSIGNMENT.

YOU WILL TAKE OFF THOSE WHITE BODIES OFF THAT PAGE.

YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR DAD.

MY DAD WAS WHITE.

HE WAS NOTHING LIKE THE WHITE GUY I PICKED OUT.

I PICKED OUT THIS BUSINESSMAN, THIS CHIC MAN WITH A BUSINESS SUIT AND MY DAD WAS A CARPENTER WHO CAME HOME IN SAWDUST EVERY DAY.

SHE SAID WE'RE GOING TO REDO THIS ASSIGNMENT.

WE WENT THROUGH AND CUT OUT PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE US.

AND SHE PROCEEDED TO PIN THAT COLLAGE OR SHE TAPEED THAT COLLAGE ON TO MY BEDROOM WALL RIGHT NEXT TO MY BED.

SO EVERY NIGHT IT WAS THE LAST THING I SAW AND THE FIRST THING I SAW EVERY MORNING PAUSE SHE WANTED TO REENFORCE THIS IDEA THAT YOU ARE A BLACK GIRL AND THIS IS NOT ANYTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF AND THERE IS NO ESCAPING IT.

WE CELEBRATE THAT IN THIS HOUSE.

I THINK HAVING MY MOTHER THERE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING REENFORCED THOSE MESSAGES OF PRIDE, IT WAS REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT.

ESPECIALLY AS A BROWN GIRL GROWING UP IN A PREDOMINANTLY WHITE WORLD.

I FIND SO INTERESTING ABOUT THE WHITE PEOPLE PAPER FAMILY STORY AND A LOT OF THE STORIES THAT FOLLOWED IS IT UNDERSCORES, AT HOME YOU ARE RECEIVING ONE MESSAGE.

ARE YOU BEING SUPPORTED, VOIRKSD THERE IS NO CONFUSION THERE.

RIGHT.

EVEN THEN, YOU CAN NOT PROTECT A GIRL FROM ALL OF THE MESSAGES THAT WILL COME FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD.

YES.

WHAT DID THAT LOOK LIKE FOR YOU?

WELL, LISTEN, I THINK I'LL SAY THIS, THE THROUGH LINE OF THIS BOOK AND THE TITLE EVEN MORE THAN ENOUGH REALLY WAS INSPIRED BY THIS STAT THAT I FOUND THAT SAID IN AMERICA YOUNG GIRLS' CONFIDENCE PEAKS AT AGE 9, WHICH RATTLED ME TO MY CORE AND AT THE SAME TIME WHEN I REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT, IT WAS UNSURPRISING THINKING OF MY OWN JOURNEY AND THE JOURNEY ALL THE WOMEN IN MY LIFE.

IT MADE ME REALIZE THAT WE ALL SORT OF SHARE THIS SIMILAR ARC WHERE YOU ARE BORN INTO THE WORLD WITH A SENSE OF LIMITLESSNESS AND POSSIBILITY AND THEN SLOWLY BUT SURELY, THE WORLD PLACES YOU IN BOXES AND LABELS YOU AND CHIPS AWAY AT THAT CONFIDENCE.

ONE OF THE EXPERIENCES THAT YOU GIVE US THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HEAR AS MUCH ABOUT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF TRYING TO PROVE TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS THAT YOU ARE BLACK ENOUGH.

AND THAT COMES IN VARIOUS FORMS, BOYFRIEND THAT YOU WOULD USE TO VALIDATE YOUR BLACKNESS, FRIEND CIRCLES.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK ANY OF THOSE DECISION WERE CERTAINLY NOT WHO I CHOSE TO DATE WERE CONSCIENCE.

IT WASN'T ME CONSCIOUSLY TRYING TO YOU KNOW EMBRACE MY BLACKNESS.

YOU SEE IT AS A PART OF YOUR RETROSPECTIVE, RIGHT?

WHEN I LOOK BACK, I THINK THAT I MEAN I JUST THOUGHT THAT BOY WAS FINE.

YOU STAYED A LITTLE TOO LONG?

I STAYED WITH HIM TOO LONG.

SO MANY DO STAY WELL IN RELATIONSHIPS WELL PAST THEIR EXPIRATION DATE.

CERTAINLY WITH SOMEONE FROM A MIXED FAITH BACKGROUND, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO I AM AND FIT INTO THE RECALLED WHO, THERE WERE SOME AWKWARD STAGES, YEAH, I WAS OFTEN THE BLACK FRIEND, THE TOKEN BLACK FRIEND IN WHITE CIRCLES WHEN I WAS YOU KNOW COMING UP ALL THE WAY THROUGH UNTIL COLLEGE AND I FELT THIS YEARNING TO REALLY FIND MY TRIBE OF BLACK WOMEN THAT I COULD BE FRIENDS WITH AND NURTURE A SISTER HOD WITH BLACK WOMEN AND I JUST DIDN'T HAVING A SAYS TO THAT COMMUNITY REALLY WHEN I WAS GROWING UP.

SO THERE WAS THIS URGENCY WHEN I GOT THE CALL, I HAVE TO FIND BLACK FRIENDS AND SOME OF THAT CAME FROM A LEVEL OF HURT.

THEIR ONE EXPERIENCE THAT I SHARE WHERE YOU KNOW MY WHITE GIRLFRIENDS ARE MY BEST FRIENDS FOR LIFE.

BUT THERE WAS ONE INSTANCE THAT I EXPERIENCED YOU KNOW AT A SLUMBER PARTY AROUND 8th GRADE WHERE THE N-WORD WAS USED AND THEIR NOTHING LIKE THAT MOMENT WHERE THE TRUST IS BROKEN BETWEEN AND WHERE YOU RECOGNIZE YOUR BLACKNESS AND HOW IT SEPARATES YOU FROM THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU FELT SO INTIMATELY CONNECTED TO AND STILL DO, TO BE CLEAR.

WE WORKED THROUGH IT AND THE SYSTEM TO THIS DAY IS ONE OF MY BEST FRIEND.

BUT THESE ARE THE MOMENTS THAT HELPED ME RECOGNIZE THAT BLACKNESS IS NOT ABOUT THE WAY YOU TALK OR THE WAY YOU WALK OR WHO YOU DATE.

THIS IS A COLLECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF EXCLUSION THAT CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD BY SOME DEEPLY IN THE SAME WAY BY SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER HAD TO FACE THAT SAME TYPE OF DISCRIMINATION.

AND SO IT SOUNDS SILLY BUT LIKE I WAS LAID DOWN BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO FIND THE BLACK TABLE AT THIS SCHOOL, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT I TALK ABOUT IN MY BOOK, THIS CONCEPT OF THE BLACK TABLE AND REALLY WHAT THE BLACK TABLE IS, IT'S A SAFE SPACE WHERE YOU CAN JUST BE YOURSELF AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THESE TYPES OF ENCOUNTERS HAPPENING, THESE MICRO-AGGRESSIONS HAPPENING, YOU CAN JUST TAKE OFF THE MASKS AND YOU CAN STOP CODE SWITCHING AND REALLY BE YOURSELF.

IN THE COLLEGE, YOU HAD COMPETING INTERNSHIPS.

YES.

ONE AT EBONY, ONE AT ESSENCE.

YES.

YOU CHOSE TO GO TO EBONY WHICH EVERYONE DRAGGED YOU FOR.

YES.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE HIERARCHY OF AMERICAN MEDIA WORKING FROM ENEMY?

I'M FROM A SMALL TOWN.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE POLITICS OF MEDIA COMING INTO THIS WORLD.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE BEST, THE CLOUDS WOULD PARDON AND THIS WAS THE BEST JOB I CAN COME ACROSSCH ON DAY ONE I WALKED IN, THIS IS NOTHING LIKE DEVILS WEARS PRADA, THIS IS NOTHING LIKE 'SEX IN THE CITY.'

I WAS LIKE WRAFS THE FASHION CLOSET?

I REMEMBER OPENING THE DOOR, AN OFFICE SUPPLY ROOM, WE LACKSERS SPILLING OUT OF A MIXED BACK.

IT WASN'T THE VISION OF WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE TO WORK AT A FASHION MAGAZINE.

I CRIED IN THE BATHROOM.

DID I MAKE THE WRONG DECISION?

BUT I SUCKED IT UP AND I LEARNED SO MUCH AT THAT FIRST JOB AND THE REST IS HISTORY.

I EVENTUALLY WAS ABLE MAKE MANY I WHAT I TO KOCONDENAST.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE.

SHE WAS LIKE THE DARLING OF NEW MEDIA.

SHE CALLED ME AND TOLD ME IN CONFIDENCE THAT YOU KNOW OVER COFFEE THAT SHE WAS YOU KNOW LOOKING TO HELP FIND HER REPLACEMENT AND THOUGHT I WOULD BE GREAT FOR THE JOB.

I SAID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THINKING OF ME, BUT I DON'T WANT TO RISK IT RIGHT NOW.

I THINK YOU KNOW IF THIS WERE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, I'D FEEL BETTER.

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND.

I TOTALLY RESPECT THAT.

AND DAYS LATER, I GET A CALL FROM HR AND THE LONG STORY SHORT IS A FRIEND OF MINE PUT IT THIS WAY, WHAT EVA WANTS, EHAVE GETS.

SO TALK TO ME ABOUT SOME OF THE STORIES YOU CHOSE TO TELL AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU ALLOWED TO TELL THEM DURING YOUR TIME AT TEEN VOGUE.

WELL, THE VERY FIRST STORY I TOLD AT TEEN VOGUE WAS MY NATURAL HAIR STORY.

I WAS APPOINTED AS THE BEAUTY DIRECTOR AND I LEARNED ONLY AFTER ACCEPTING THE JOBS THROUGH HEADLINES THAT I WAS THE FIRST BLACK BEAUTY DIRECTOR IN CONDENAST HISTORY.

I DIDN'T THINK OF MYSELF AS AN ACTIVIST.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A STORY THAT HAD NEVER BEEN TOLD.

I KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL RESONATE.

SO I TOLD MY NATURAL HAIR STORY.

KI NOT TILL HOW MANY TIMES I WAS STOPPED BY YOUNG GIRLS WHO SAID THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT STORY.

I NEVER SEEN MOMS OR AUNTIES WHO SAID HOW MUCH IT MEANT TO THEM.

IT REALLY REENFORCED THAT I WAS THERE ON A MISSION.

BUT WHAT DID THAT ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE IN THE WORKS AT TEEN VOGUE?

HOW DO YOU TAKE THE POLITICAL AND MAKE THE BEAUTY?

OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF AS INHERENTLY POLITICAL?

NO, NOT AT ALL.

HOW DID YOU DO THAT.

I WOULD SAY BABY STEPS, STORY BY STORY.

AND USING BEAUTY AS A VEHICLE TO CELEBRATE DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION AND TO START CONVERSATIONS THAT MATTER AROUND IDENTITY, CULTURE IDENTITY, RACIAL IDENTITY, WE DID A STORY ABOUT CULTURE APPRECIATION THAT PUT YOUNG GIRLS FROM ROUTINELY APPROPRIATATED COMMUNITIES AT THE CENTER, WHO COULD TELL THE WORLD FROM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN CULTURAL APPROPRIATION AND CULTURAL APPRECIATION.

IT WAS THOSE KIND OF STORIES THAT STARTED TO SHIFT THE CULTURE INTERNALLY AND HOW WE THOUGHT ABOUT OUR PLATFORM AND HOW WE COULD USE IT TO REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND HOW EVEN YES AT A TEEN FASHION TITLE WE COULD START TO INFUSE SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS INTO IT AND EVENTUALLY YOUTH AND POLITICS.

AND I WILL SAY THIS, WE DID, WE GOT IT DONE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T ASK FOR PERMISSION.

WE WERE PREPARED TO APOLOGIZE.

THIS IS 21 OF MY FAVORITE STORIES IN THE BOOK.

TELL ME ABOUT THE DAY YOU WERE PROMOTED TO EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF TEEN VOGUE?

WHEW, WHAT A DAY.

MM-HMM.

SO LET'S SEE, I REMEMBER I WAS ON SET IN LIKE BAGGY JEANS AND A SWEATSHIRT, LEATHER JACK.

YOUR WORST OUTFIT.

MY BEST OUTFIT.

I WAS WEARING VALENCIA BOOTIES.

THEY WERE CUTE.

THEY WERE NOT ANNA WINTOUR APPROVED.

I GET THIS E-MAIL FROM ANNA WINTOUR'S OFFICE TO COME IF RIGHT AWAY.

SO I RACE BACK TO THE OFFICER, CHANGE MY CLOTHES.

LUCKILY I HAD AN OUTFIT IN MY OFFICE.

I MIGHT HAVE PULLED SOMETHING FROM THE FASHION CLOSET AND I THROW MYSELF TOGETHER.

I GO UP THERE, I AM OFFERED THE JOB AND I HAVE TO SAY, IT WAS SORT OF THIS SURREAL MOMENT AS YOU WORK YOUR WHOLE CAREER, JUST DREAMING OF ONE DAY, MAYBE THAT HAPPENING.

NOT EVER REALLY ACCEPTING THAT OPPORTUNITY.

YOU WERE YOUNG.

HAPPENING.

YEAH, I WAS 29-YEARS-OLD.

WE HAD BEEN DOING THE WORK TO CHANGE THE MISSION OF TEEN VOGUE BEFORE THAT HAPPENED.

SO I FELT REALLY EKWICHLTD I FELT REALLY READY.

I HAD A CLEAR VISION OF WHERE I KNOW I WANTED TO TAKE THE TITLE AND I ALSO DID FIT CONCERT WITH TWO OTHER PEOPLE SO BY THE TIME THAT SORT OF WE WERE HANDED THE REIGNS AS LEADERS OF THIS TEEN TITLE.

WE WERE READY TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING AND WE DID AND THEN THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HAPPENED AND THERE WAS ONE STORY THAT SORT OF CAUGHT FIRE AND WENT VIRAL THAT WAS PUBLISHED ON THE WEBSITE AND IT WAS CALLED TRUMP IS GASLIGHTING AMERICA.

AND THAT STORY IS REALLY WHAT PUT TEEN VOGUE ON THE MAP AS THIS SORT OF NEW POLITICAL PLATFORM THAT WAS GIVING VOICE TO A YOUNG GENERATION OF SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS AND POLITICALLY ENGAGED YOUNG PEOPLE.

THERE IS A STORY IN THE BOOK.

IT TAKES WHAT WE THINK OF GENERALLY CODE SWITCHING AND TURNS THE PARADIGM OPEN ITS HEAD.

IT'S SOMETHING YOU LEAD WITH BOB ST. JOHN A NOTED MARKETING EXECUTIVE FROM HER TIME AT UBER.

SHE SORT OF OWNS THE ROOM.

SHE OWNS EVERY ROOM.

SHE DOES NOT CODE SWITCH.

AND THAT ALLOWS YOU TO NOT CODE SWITCH AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU NOTICE THAT THE WHITE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM ARE HAVING THE EXPERIENCE.

YES.

OF WHAT ORDINARILY NON-WHITE PEOPLE IN WHITE SPACE CONSTANTLY HAVE?

THAT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE STORIES IN THE BOOK.

SHE IS SOMEONE WHO JUST EPITOMIZES LIBERATION IN THE WAY SHE MOVES THROUGH ANY ROOM.

AND SHE TAUGHT ME SOMETHING, REALLY EARLY ON, WHEN I BECAME EDITOR-IN-CHIEF.

I REACHED OUT TO HER.

I HAD THIS BIG IDEA THAT I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING TRACTION.

SO I SHARED THIS IDEA WITH HER.

I ASKED FOR A MEETING.

I HAD PLANNED FOR IT TO BE A FORMAL MEETING.

MY WHOLE TEAM WOULD COME.

HER TEAM WOULD COME, YEAH, YEAH, WE'LL DO THAT.

HAVE YOUR PEOPLE TALK TO MY PEOPLE.

BUT WHEN CAN YOU COME?

MB-HMM?

SO I COME TO HER OFFICE.

IT'S LIKE, FUR AND LIKE MYRR, INCENTS, JILL SCOTT'S PLAYING.

OH, THEY LOT YOU DO THIS?

SHE'S LIKE, THEY DON'T LET ME DO ANYTHING.

I JUST LOVE THE WAY THIS WOMAN ROLLS.

THE LONG STORY SHORT IS WE COME ONE THIS IDEA.

I SHARE IT WITH HER.

SHE LOVES IT.

SHE GOES GREAT.

LET'S SET UP THE OTHER MEETING.

WE WILL ACT LIKE THIS MEETING NEVER HAPPENED.

THIS IS A PRE MEETING.

WHAT'S A PRE MEETING?

I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A PRE MEETING?

GIRL, THIS IS WHAT WHITE MEN HAVE BEEN DOING ON GOLF COURSES FOR GENERATIONS.

THIS IS HOW WE GOT IT.

I GOT YOUR BACK.

I WILL SUPPORT YOU IN THE MEETING.

WE WILL DO THIS.

THEN WE HAVE THE MEETING WHERE THE TWO TEAMS ARE COMING TOGETHER.

IT WAS A SMALL MEETING.

THE MAJORITY ARE BLACK WOMEN LEADERS.

IT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN MY CAREER.

I HAD SEEN THEALCHEY SWITCH.

I SAW THE WHITE WOMEN IN THE ROOM SORT OF GRAPPLING WITH BEING THE ONLY ONES IN THE ROOM AND SORT OF CO-SWITCHING OR REVERSE CO-SWITCHING.

IT WAS FASCINATING TO ME.

IT WAS ILLUMINATING TO ME.

IT WAS A LITTLE BIT HUMERUS TO ME.

BECAUSE I HAD BEEN THAT PERSON MY WHOLE LIFE THROUGHOUT MY CAREER.

IN BOTH DIRECTIONS?

IN BOTH DIRECTS, IN ALL BLACK SPACES, IN ALL WHITE SPACES, DEFINITELY BEING THE ONLY BLACK PERSON SO I THOUGHT, WHAT IT ILLUMINATED FOR ME WAS THAT WE ALL WOULD BE BETTER CITIZENS FOR GOING OUTSIDE OF OUR COMFORT ZONE AND EXPERIENCING WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE THE ONLY ONE IN THE ROOM.

ELAINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

ELAINE'S NEW BOOK 'MORE THAN ENOUGH' IS OUT ON TUESDAY.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR AND COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW.

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