Samantha Power on Obama, Syria and the State of US Politics

FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR SAMANTHA POWER HAS BEEN AN ACTIVIST, JOURNALIST, AUTHOR, AND POLICYMAKER.

HER FIRST BOOK ON GENOCIDE 'A PROBLEM FROM HELL' WON A PULITZER PRIZE.

WHERE SHE SERVED ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'S NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS, SHE FOUND THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.

SHE SAT DOWN TO DISCUSS HER NEW EMAWARE 'THE EDUCATION OF AN IDEALIST.'

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

THANK YOU.

THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY PERSONAL, INTIMATE MEMOIR.

AND IT REALLY BEGINS WITH YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR FATHER AND SORT OF GROWING UP READING MYSTERY STORIES IN A PUB IN IRELAND WHEN YOU WERE A KID.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

SO THE PUB IN DUBLIN WAS CALLED HARDI BEGAN'S.

STILL EXISTS.

IT'S A BIT GRIMY.

IT'S PROBABLY NOT THE PLACE I WOULD WANT MY CHILDREN TO BE HANGING OUT READING MYSTERIES.

BUT THERE WAS -- THERE'S SOMETHING AT LEAST IN MY MEMORY THAT'S QUITE MAGICAL ABOUT MY FATHER, WHO DIED SUBSEQUENTLY WHEN I WAS 14 YEARS OLD.

SO -- WHO I DON'T HAVE AS MANY MEMORIES AS I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE WITH.

BUT HE WOULD BRING ME TO THE PUB, HE WOULD PARK ME NEXT TO HIM, HE WAS SUCH A REGULAR OF THIS PUB, AND UNFORTUNATELY WAS SUCH A BIG DRINKER THAT THE SEAT AT THE BAR WAS CALLED 'THE SEAT OF POWER' FOR JIM POWER, MY DAD.

I WOULD SIT NEXT TO HIM AND GO DOWN TO THE BASEMENT AND WHILE AWAY THE HOUR WITH MY BOOKS.

AND I WAS DONE HE'D RUN TO THE CAR AND GET ME ANOTHER ONE.

NO ENVIRONMENT FOR A CHILD, BUT WHEN YOU'RE A CHILD, THE FACT THAT YOU CAN CAPTURE YOUR FATHER'S ATTENTION WHEN YOU NEED IT, YOU KNOW, CAN END UP BEING THE ONLY MEASURE OF THE MAN.

AND THAT'S HOW I FELT AT THE TIME.

I CERTAINLY DIDN'T FEEL AT THAT TIME LIKE I HAD A DIFFICULT CHILDHOOD.

BUT MY MOTHER AND MY FATHER SEPARATED, AND THERE WAS NO DIVORCE IN IRELAND BACK THEN.

SO THE OPTIONS FOR HER, SHE HAD MET SOMEBODY ELSE, ALSO AN IRISHMAN FROM DUBLIN.

AND THEY WANTED TO BUILD A LIFE TOGETHER.

SO THEY DECIDED TO MAKE THEIR MOVE TO THIS COUNTRY.

BUT IT ENDED UP IN TRAGEDY BECAUSE AFTER WE CAME TO AMERICA AND REALLY BEFORE I GOT TO SPEND MORE MEANINGFUL TIME WITH MY DAD, MY FATHER DIED, TO ME, VERY SUDDENLY.

AND YOU TALK SO MUCH ABOUT THE ANXIETIES THAT CAME OUT OF THAT.

THAT SEEMS VERY USEFUL TO READERS TO KNOW TOO, THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF CAN BE DEEPLY ANXIOUS, BECAUSE YOU HAD TO IN SOME WAYS CHOOSE TO MOVE, WHEN YOU WERE IN AMERICA, BETWEEN YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER, THEN HIS DRINKING HAPPENS.

THEN YOU DEAL WITH IT THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

YOU DEAL WITH AND IT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE CARRYING.

FOR ME IT WAS YEARS LATER BEFORE I REALLY STARTED TO UNPACK JUST THE SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY I FELT AS OFTEN IS THE CASE WITH CHILDREN WHO GROW UP TO ARE ADULTS AND LOOK BACK.

THEY EXAGGERATE, THEY IMPOSE THEIR ADULT SELVES ON THEIR CHILD SELVES.

THINK THAT WHEN THEY WERE CHILDREN THEY HAD THE POWER AND THE AGENCY THAT THEY HAVE WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING BACK.

SO UNPACKING ALL OF THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.

BUT YES, I WAS -- AGAIN, WHETHER BECAUSE OF THESE EVENTS OR FOR OTHER REASONS.

BUT I FOUND MYSELF AT DIFFERENT TIMES IN MY LIFE -- USUALLY WHEN I WAS IN UNSTRESSFUL ENVIRONMENTS WITH JUST HORRIFIC KIND OF CONSTRICTED BREATHING.

AND IT WAS OFTEN THE CASE THAT I WAS, YOU KNOW -- COULD FREE MYSELF OF THESE FEELINGS ONLY WHEN I WAS FOR EXAMPLE, A WAR CORRESPONDENT OR WHEN I WAS OPERATING UNDER A DEADLINE OR, YOU KNOW, EVEN LATER IN LIFE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS IN A VERY HIGH-STAKES NEGOTIATION.

WHEREAS WHEN THINGS WERE STILL, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER LAY WITHIN WOULD COME BUBBLING UP.

I'D WRITE ABOUT TRYING WITH THERAPISTS TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LITTLE BIT.

SOMETIMES YOU FEEL VERY ALONE WHEN YOU'RE GOING THROUGH EPISODES LIKE THAT OR YOU'RE FEELING -- I MEAN, PEOPLE HAVE MANY MORE SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES THAN I HAVE FACED.

BUT WHETHER IT'S THAT OR WRITING ABOUT OUR EFFORTS TO CONCEIVE A CHILD AND INFERTILITY AND IVF AND ALL OF THAT.

IT'S JUST -- THIS IS LIFE.

THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE VENEER OF ALL THESE POLISHED PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND.

THERE'S A GREAT SAYING THAT I COME BACK TO IN THE BOOK, NEVER COMPARE YOUR INSIDES TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S OUTSIDES.

AND I FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOMETHING DEEP IN THAT, BUT OPEN UP THE INSIDES AND LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT EVERYBODY HAS THEIR STRUGGLES.

TELL ME ABOUT GETTING TO KNOW OBAMA.

IT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE HE READ 'A PROBLEM FROM HELL,' THE BOOK ON AMERICAN RESPONSES TO GENOCIDE.

AND I WAS SURPRISED.

HE WAS THE ONLY SENATOR WHO REACHED OUT TO ME, HAD REACHED OUT TO ME AT THAT POINT AT LEAST, HAVING READ THE BOOK.

AND I THOUGHT MAYBE HE'D WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BOOK IN ITS NARROW SENSE.

FOCUSING SPECIFICALLY ON MASS ATROCITIES AND WHAT COULD BE DONE ON THIS OR THAT.

BUT IN FACT HE WAS REALLY INTERESTED, IT WAS A CREATIVE READ OR BROADER READ, IN SORT OF WHAT THAT SET OF RESPONSES INDICATED ABOUT THE TENDENCY OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT NOT TO THINK ABOUT HUMAN CONSEQUENCES MORE BROADLY ON A WHOLE SET OF ISSUES.

HE WAS NEW TO THE SENATE, ON THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, AND WANTING TO PUT FORTH ALREADY WHAT HE CALLED A TOUGH, SMART, AND HUMANE APPROACH TO FOREIGN POLICY.

YOU BECOME A FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

YOU GET TO KNOW CASS SUN STEIN, WHO BECOMES YOUR HUSBAND.

THAT WAS A BIT OF A MIRACLE.

THAT'S MORE SERENDIPITY.

I WAS SITTING AT MY DESK ASK CASS, I RECEIVED A LETTER -- I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM CASS SUNSTEIN, WHOSE BOOKS I'D READ.

THE EMAIL BASICALLY WAS LAMBASTING THE STATE OF THE CAMPAIGN, OR AT LEAST ONE SUBSET OF THE CAMPAIGN, THAT WORKED ON OBAMA'S RULE OF LAW IDEAS.

AND IT'S A BLAST EMAIL, HE DIDN'T MEAN TO BLAST OUT.

HE WAS TRYING TO SEND IT TO ONE PERSON AND I RECEIVED IT.

EMAIL MISTAKE.

YEAH, COMPLETELY.

I'M THINKING, DID HE JUST SEND TO ONE PERSON?

IT WAS ADDRESSED TO ONE PERSON.

MY THE ONLY ONE?

I REALIZED IT HAD GONE TO THE ENTIRE OBAMA CAMPAIGN.

THAT MADE YOU DECIDE YOU WANTED TO MARRY HIM?

I THOUGHT, POOR GUY.

WHAT ELSE?

NOBODY ELSE IS GOING TO MARRY HIM.

NO, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, I'VE DONE THAT, AND IT SUCKS.

MY HEART -- IT JUST WENT OUT TO CASS SUNSTEIN.

I WROTE HIM, I SAID, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, NEXT TIME YOU'RE IN BOSTON LET'S GET A COFFEE, I PROMISE YOU'LL FORGET.

THEN WE WERE MARRIED.

HE HAD TO WALK YOU THROUGH -- ON BOOK TOUR YOU MAKE THE MISTAKE OF OFFHANDEDLY USING THE WORD MONSTER WHEN TALKING ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON.

NOT MY FINEST HOUR.

AND SO YOU HAVE TO STEP DOWN FROM THE CAMPAIGN FOR A WHILE.

YEAH.

YOU'RE IN THE PENALTY BOX.

THE SIN BIN AS MY IRISH RELATIVES CALLED IT.

IT WAS MY FIRST CAMPAIGN.

I WAS SO EMOTIONALLY INVESTED.

I DID NOT HAVE A KIND OF DISTANCE OR THE EXPERIENCE OF PRIOR CAMPAIGNS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT WERE PROBABLY IN RETROSPECT PRETTY TRADITIONAL -- MAYBE NOT IDEAL CAMPAIGN TACTICS, BUT A BIT RUN OF THE MILL, FOR ME WERE JUST THESE TRANSGRESSIONS, THESE OUTRAGES.

SO BASICALLY I WENT OFF AND WAS, YOU KNOW, ALL UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN WAS DOING.

AND THEN A REPORTER PUBLISHED IT AND IT INCLUDED THE DENIGRATING COMMENTS ABOUT SENATOR CLINTON.

AND IT WAS MORTIFYING.

FOR THE FIRST TIME REALLY SINCE THE COMMUNITY OF REPORTERS I'D BEEN WITH IN BOSNIA, I WAS ON THIS AMAZING TEAM, AND THE NEXT THING, POOF.

IT WAS GONE.

AND I HAD JUST DART STARTED DATING CASS AT THE TIME.

AND MY IMPULSE WAS TO PUSH HIM AWAY AND TO GO THROUGH THIS PERIOD WHERE I WAS VERY EMBARRASSED AND ASHAMED AS TO WHAT HAD HAPPENED, BUT TO GO THROUGH IT ON MY OWN.

AND HE WOULDN'T LET ME.

AND THIS WAS JUST, OKAY.

AND YOUR MENTOR, RICHARD HOLBROOKE, DECIDES TO GIVE YOU A WEDDING GIFT.

HE DECIDED -- HE WAS ONE OF THE GREAT NEGOTIATORS IN AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY HISTORY.

HE DECIDED TO PUT THOSE SKILLS TO USE AND WENT TO SENATOR CLINTON AFTER BARACK OBAMA HAD SECURED THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION.

AND HE SAID, I WOULD LIKE TO BROKER A MEETING BETWEEN SAMANTHA, WHO STEPPED DOWN FROM THE CAMPAIGN FOR THE THING SHE SAID ABOUT YOU, AND YOU.

WOULD YOU INDULGE THAT?

AND SHE WAS GREAT.

THE REAL HITTING OF REALITY THAT HAPPENS TO YOU IS SYRIA.

EXPLAIN WHY YOU WERE SO ADAMANT THAT AMERICA NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING WHEN ASSAD USES THOSE CHEMICAL WEAPONS.

WELL -- I MEAN, TECHNICALLY EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS ADAMANT THAT SOMEONE NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING.

I MEAN, IT WAS THE LARGEST CHEMICAL WEAPONS ATTACK IN 25 YEARS.

THE CHALLENGING QUESTION WAS, WHAT WAS THE THING THAT NEEDED TO BE DONE?

AND WHAT WAS THE TOOL THAT COULD BE EMPLOYED AT MANAGEABLE RISK OR COST THAT WOULD BRING ABOUT THE BENEFITS THAT YOU SOUGHT, WHICH IS NO MORE CHEMICAL WEAPONS ATTACKS OF THAT MONSTROUS NATURE?

WHAT I DESCRIBE IN THE BOOK IS WHAT MANY REMEMBER, WHICH WAS GLOBAL REVULSION OVER WHAT HAD OCC OCCURRED, RESPONSE OF PRESIDENT OBAMA, AND BASICALLY A RESOLVE TO PUNISH THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS ATTACK WITH LIMITED MILITARY AIR STRIKES, FOLLOWED BY A TASKING TO ME TO GO AND GET U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTORS OUT OF SYRIA.

NOT TO GO PHYSICALLY TO SYRIA BUT TO GO TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL AND TO GET HIM TO PULL THOSE INSPECTORS OUT.

BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE TO ANSWER A QUESTION THAT DIDN'T NEED TO BE RESOLVED, WHICH WAS NOT WHO DID IT, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VERY USEFUL TO RESOLVE BECAUSE RUSSIA AND OTHER COUNTRIES WERE CLAIMING IT WASN'T THE SYRIAN REGIME, BUT THEY WERE ONLY THERE WITH THE MANDATE TO DISCOVER WHETHER OR NOT CHEMICAL WEAPONS HAD BEEN USED, AND EVERYBODY KNEW THEY HAD BEEN USED.

RUSSIA, IRAN, THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT, NOBODY WAS DENYING IT.

THE ONLY RELEVANT QUESTION WAS WHO HAD DONE IT AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

SO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL, FOR A SET OF REASONS THAT I EXPLAIN IN THE BOOK, SAID, THEY'RE THERE, WE'RE GOING TO FULFILL THE MANDATE, AND THEY STAYED AND THEY GATHERED SAMPLES AND THEY TALKED TO SURVIVORS AND THEY ESTABLISHED, OF COURSE, WHAT EVERYBODY ALREADY KNEW, WHICH WAS THAT SARIN HAD BEEN USED.

BUT OVER THE COURSE OF THAT WEEK WHERE THEY DIDN'T COME HOME, IN THE MEANTIME, DAVID CAMERON WENT TO HIS PARLIAMENT AND WAS THWARTED IN HIS EFFORT TO GET SUPPORT TO JOIN THE UNITED STATES AND FRANCE IN THESE -- IN THIS LIMITED MILITARY ACTION.

AND PRESIDENT OBAMA HIMSELF BEGAN TO HEAR FROM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO SAID, COME HERE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE GOING INTO A COUNTRY LIKE SYRIA, THIS DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE MILITARY AUTHORIZATION THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS GIVEN IN THE WAKE OF 9/11, YOU SHOULD SEEK A NEW AUTHORIZATION.

OR PEOPLE CRITICIZING HIM FOR OTHER REASONS.

BUT WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING IS, IN THAT WEEK, PRESIDENT OBAMA DECIDED TO CHANGE COURSE, NOT IN HIS OWN POSITION.

HE WAS STILL INTENT ON USING AIR STRIKES AGAIN TO TRY TO DISABLE DIMENSIONS OF THE PROGRAM.

BUT HE DECIDED THAT IN ORDER TO DO SO, AND IN ORDER TO NOT TAKE ON THE RISK OF THIS LASTING A LONG TIME AND ASSAD BEING ABLE TO IN EFFECT WAIT THE UNITED STATES OUT, HE DECIDED TO GO TO CONGRESS.

BUT IN YOUR BOOK, YOU SAY YOU ASK HIM THE VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

WHEN HE SURPRISES YOU AND SAYS, OKAY, DO THE RED LINE, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO DO THE ATTACK UNTIL I GET CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

AND YOU SAY?

WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DON'T GET THE VOTES?

AND I HAD JUST GONE THROUGH SENATE CONFIRMATION.

AND SO AS I WRITE IN THE BOOK, EVERY FIBER IN MY BEING WAS THINKING, IT DOESN'T REALLY FEEL LIKE IT'S ON THE LEVEL UP THERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE CASE, REALLY, THAT THE VERY REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN CALLING ON YOU TO USE FORCE AND DENOUNCING WHAT THEY CALL YOUR FECKLESSNESS, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TURN AROUND AND NOW EMBRACE WHAT YOU DO.

THEY SEEM TO WANT TO DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO ON A GIVEN DAY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE IS ALSO THE GREAT EXHAUSTION AND DID IT ILLUSIONMENT AND DESPAIR OVER HOW THE WAR IN IRAQ WENT, AND DEMOCRATS ESPECIALLY AND PROGRESSIVES ARE VERY DISTURBED BY THAT AND VERY CONCERNED ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT LEAD US TO BE ENTANGLED.

SO I HAD THE SENSE OF I'M NOT SURE AMONG REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, THIS IS A QUORUM HERE FOR THIS?

BUT HE -- AGAIN, HIS LOGIC WAS -- IN ONE DIMENSION HIS LOGIC WAS VERY SOUND, WHICH WAS, YOU ARE STRONGER AS AMERICA IN THE WORLD WHEN YOU HAVE DOMESTIC BACKING.

AND YOU ARE WEAK WHERE YOU'RE OUT THERE ALONE WITHOUT THE BALLAST OF A CONSTITUENCY BEHIND YOU.

SO WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING AS I WRITE IS WE VERY QUICKLY REALIZE THAT THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL CONSTITUENCY FOR THE APPROACH THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS ALREADY PUBLICLY COMMITTED HIMSELF TO.

REPUBLICANS WHO HAD BEEN FOR THE USE OF FORCE ON MONDAY, YOU KNOW, AS SOON AS OBAMA WAS FOR IT, FLIPPED AND OPPOSED IT.

AND DEMOCRATS WERE --

BUT SURELY HE KNEW THAT THAT WAS A RISK.

HE MUST HAVE KNOWN CONGRESS WAS NOT GOING TO GIVE HIM THE AUTHORIZATION.

EVEN YOU SAID IT AT THE MEETING.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF REVISIONISM.

BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT WAS ELECTED TO GET THE UNITED STATES -- IN PART TO GET THE UNITED STATES OUT OF WARS AND DREW DOWN OUR PRESENCE IN IRAQ AND SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCED IT, I MEAN, TO THE LEVELS REALLY ROUGHLY THAT THEY'RE AT NOW IN AFGHANISTAN.

AND HAS A SKEPTICISM ABOUT -- CERTAINLY ABOUT WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND WHERE -- IN ALL THE WAYS IT CAN GO WRONG.

I THINK PEOPLE BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS LIKE A PLOY ON HIS PART THAT HE WENT TO CONGRESS IN ORDER TO FAIL.

AS I WRITE IN THE BOOK, HE WENT TO CONGRESS THINKING HE WAS GOING TO SUCCEED.

IT SEEMS VERY NAIVE IN RETROSPECT, IT WAS CLEARLY A MISTAKE.

IT WAS A MISTAKE.

IT WAS A MISTAKE TO GO TO CONGRESS?

IT WAS A MISTAKE IN THE SENSE THE VOTES WEREN'T THERE AND WE WERE PUBLICLY COMMITTED TO A COURSE OF ACTION THAT THEN -- THEN TO TAKE THAT COURSE OF ACTION IN DEFIANCE OF CONGRESSIONAL WILL WAS IMPOSSIBLE.

SO IN A SENSE THE PRESIDENT'S HANDS WERE TIED BY THE PROCEDURAL PATHWAY THAT WE TOOK.

BUT IN THE END, AND I CREDIT PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR HIS IMPROVISATION HERE, HE WENT TO PRESIDENT PUTIN AND SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW.

IN THE KIND OF -- I THINK BLUFFED ABLUFF ED A BIT ABOUT THE PROSPECTS FOR BEING ABLE TO SECURE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORIZATION OR THE WILLINGNESS TO GO AHEAD -- HE ALWAYS SAID HIS COMMANDER IN CHIEF AUTHORITY GAVE HIM LICENSE TO GO.

HE RESERVED --

WOULD HE HAVE GONE AHEAD?

NO.

I DON'T THINK SO.

WAS THAT A MISTAKE?

AGAIN, I THINK TO -- I THINK IT WAS VERY REASONABLE WHEN PUTIN SAID YES, I WILL WORK WITH YOU TO TAKE -- WHAT PUTIN SAID AT THE TIME WAS ALL THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS AWAY, YOU KNOW -- TO GET THEM OUT OF A MAD MAN'S HANDS SO THAT SARIN STRIKES OF THAT MAGNITUDE WOULD NOT HAPPEN AGAIN, THAT WAS HUGELY IMPORTANT.

BUT THE COST OF CONGRESS' WILL BEING EXPOSED, OR LACK OF WILL BEING EXPOSED, THE COST OF A KIND OF AN IMPRESSION GLOBALLY THAT THE PRESIDENT COULDN'T DELIVER DOMESTICALLY THE SUPPORT HE NEEDED FOR A FOREIGN POLICY PRIORITY THAT HE HAD SAID HE HAD, THERE WAS A COST TO U.S.

CREDIBILITY THAT WAS PROFOUND, AND OF COURSE THE SYRIAN WAR ITSELF RAGES ON.

WEREN'T THERE COSTS MORE TO OUR CREDIBILITY, WHICH IS THE ENTIRE REFUGEE CRISIS WHICH HAS NOW DESTABILIZED EUROPE?

YEAH, I THINK IF YOU ASK WHAT ARE THE COSTS OF THE SYRIAN WAR?

I MEAN, 500,000 PEOPLE KILLED.

THIS ISSUE OF AMERICA SAYING THAT IT'S GOING TO DO SOMETHING AND THEN NOT FOLLOWING THROUGH.

YOU CAN DEBATE THAT.

AND THEN THE SPILL-OVER INTO THE NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES WHICH ULTIMATELY IN 2014-15 LED TO THIS HUGE MIGRATION ACROSS THE CONTINENT WHICH -- WITHOUT WHICH I'M NOT SURE WE'D HAVE BREXIT.

I'M NOT SURE EVEN THAT IMMIGRATION WOULD HAVE BEEN SO SALIENT TO ALLOW SOMEONE LIKE TRUMP TO BE ELECTED IN THIS COUNTRY AND ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT.

HAVING SAID THAT, WALTER, IN FAIRNESS, BECAUSE HINDSIGHT IS 20/20, I CAN'T ALSO SAY TO TO YOU THAT HAD WE TAKEN LIMITED MILITARY STRIKES IN AUGUST, SEPTEMBER OF 2013, THAT THOSE LIMITED ACTIONS WOULD HAVE AVERTED ALL OF THOSE CONSEQUENCES.

SAMANTHA, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, WALTER.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.