Presidential Candidate Tom Steyer Explains Why He’s Running

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: With the Iowa caucuses less than two weeks away, four candidate senators are pinned down on jury duty in this trial in Washington. Bernie Sanders is gaining ground according to the latest polls, and even taking the lead from front runner, Joe Biden. Billionaire businessman, Tom Steyer is still in the running and while he admits he is a long shot, his money and his organization keep him in the mix. Steyer made his fortune as a hedge fund manager and he is now a major philanthropist. He sat down with our Michel Martin to discuss impeachment, his commitment to tackling big issues like the climate crisis, and also campaign spending.

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MICHEL MARTIN: Tom Steyer, thank you so much for talking with us today.

TOM STEYER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michel, it is a real pleasure to be here.

MARTIN: One of the reasons that I think some people may know you is your need to impeach advertisements. I mean, you were an early advocate for impeaching President Trump. And in fact, this came along before the underlying events that have now led to the impeachment process that the country is now experiencing. So could you just give us — I know, you worked on this for a long time. What’s your 30-second elevator speech for why you decided that long ago that President Trump needed to be impeached and you were putting considerable resources behind making that case to the public?

STEYER: Most corrupt President in American history.

MARTIN: But how did you know that?

STEYER: Actually, from his first day — public information. I knew that he was taking money through his real estate operations from foreign governments and from people in the United States. I knew that he was trying to cover up his misdeeds, including firing the head of the F.B.I., because he was investigating the Russian stuff. He has consistently put himself ahead of the American people. This stuff in Ukraine is just an example. And his cover up of this stuff in Ukraine is just an example. He has been corrupt from his first day in office, and I felt as if it’s important. What I really did, Michel, was get eight and a half million Americans to sign the need to impeach petition. And they didn’t just sign a petition. They called their Congress people. They e-mailed. They texted saying, this is an attack on our system, do the right thing. Hold him accountable. This isn’t about politics or partisanship. This is about being a patriot and standing up for the country.

MARTIN: And of course, you know that his supporters say that people like yourself and the Democrats in Congress are in fact the ones attacking the system. They say, in fact, this is kind of the core of their defense, that this is an attempt to overturn the will of the people, and what do you say to that?

STEYER: I say the Constitution says that if you commit crimes against the Constitution, and you put yourself ahead of the American people and use your office to enrich yourself or empower yourself, that’s absolutely wrong. And if you obstruct justice, that’s exactly wrong. He has done it from the first day. And so if the point is that anytime you use impeachment, that’s overthrowing the will of the people, actually, it’s right in the Constitution. It’s right there.

MARTIN: Do you feel vindicated now that the Congress is actually now in this process?

STEYER: Well, I really think the eight and a half million people deserve an amazing amount of credit. And let me say this, Michel, I don’t know if you know this. So my dad was a lawyer, and he went to law school before World War Two, and the he was a naval officer in World War II. And then because he’d been a lawyer, and, frankly, got good grades in law school, they made him the assistant to the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials, so he prosecuted the Nazi war criminals. And what he said was, if you see something that’s really wrong at the heart of America, make sure you fight it, because the Germans let it go, and it went to a place that no one could ever have imagined. If you see something really wrong, and that really — there’s something really wrong at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

MARTIN: Obviously, there are people who support him. He just really seemed like have this strong emotional attachment to them. What do you think that’s about?

STEYER: I think a big part of it has to do with something that I’m very sympathetic to, which is he said he was going to drain the swamp. He said, it’s a corrupt place — Washington is a corrupt place. They don’t care about you. They don’t. They’re not trying to help you. We need to drain the swamp. It turns out and people legit — I feel this is a government that’s broken. I believe corporations have bought this government. I’m saying I fought those corporations successfully for 10 years. He was saying I’ll do it. It turns out, he’s the biggest swamper out of them all. But am I sympathetic to the people who voted for him because they said the system is broken and he’s saying he’ll go in and change it on our behalf?

STEYER: Yes, I think they had a legitimate gripe.

MARTIN: Okay, so that leads to you. You worked on impeachment. You also — you worked on need to impeach, but you also had a number of other projects you were working on — redistricting. Before that, as you mentioned that you had a couple of like about 10 years where you were working on issues, along with your other sort of philanthropy and other projects. But then after setting up this need to impeach organization, you decide to run yourself, what did you think was missing in the field that you are now filling? What role you think you play that wasn’t currently being met?

STEYER: Well, let me say this, I joined really late in this race in July. Most people had been running for five or six months at that point. I listened to the first couple of debates and I thought, no one is talking about — people are talking about the nuances in healthcare, the nuances in the Green New Deals, the nuances in violence, gun violence, prevention, and on and on. But no one is talking about what’s really going on — broken government. We have to take back government of by and for the people. I’m talking about, for instance, term limits. I believe we need to restructure D.C., so the first question is not what do we want? But how are we going to get it? And the second question is this. Jay Inslee was out there fighting for climate. But at this point, I’m the only person in the race, who is saying, I will deal with climate as my number one priority, because I have to. I’ve been working on climate and fighting on climate, and, you know, helping prevent the Keystone pipeline, helping stop the last fossil fuel plant that I think will ever be proposed in California in Oxnard, the Puente Plant, passing clean energy bills in California and outside California. I think one of them we got an agreement today from a public service company in Arizona to do 50 percent clean energy by 2030. That took a long time and a lot of work to do. I’ve been working on climate, and I felt like, look, somebody has got to make this priority one. Somebody has got to really deal with this real time because the timeframe in politics and the timeframe that Mother Nature is dictating aren’t the same. This is a crisis. Deal with it like a crisis. Let’s see what it takes.

MARTIN: Okay, and one of your fellow candidates, Andrew Yang makes the point that, sure, that’s important. But if you are having trouble putting food on the table, if you are having trouble figuring out how to get your kids educated and get to college, you can’t make that a priority. In essence, that’s kind of one of those, you know, it’s not esoteric, because I think everybody can look around who is paying attention and see the real world effects of this. But this isn’t something that if you are a person who’s really struggling for survival, that you can afford to make a priority. So what’s your argument to this person that you are A, the person that that is the priority that they need to focus on and then B, you are the person to tackle it other than the fact that you — forgive me — have a lot of time on your hands and have had a lot of time to think about it because you don’t have another job right now?

STEYER: Actually, I’ve been doing this full — I’ve been organizing full time for seven years. I mean, I’ve been working every single day. So it’s not true that I don’t have another job. Actually, I started one of the biggest grassroots organizations the United States Next Gen America, and in 2018, did the biggest youth voter mobilization in American history.

MARTIN: But how does that fit into your argument that government is broken? Because you tie all these other things to it, but then you say, okay, but it is climate change that is my number one priority. You’re getting screwed because government is broken, you’re not getting the healthcare need because government isn’t working. You’re not getting the education you need. You’re not getting the wage increases you need because government is broken and we’re going to do climate change.

STEYER: And we are not dealing with climate change because government is broken. Why is it that the Congress of the United States has never passed a legislation dealing with climate change? Because oil and gas companies don’t want it? That in fact, they’re insisting that we keep going on this fossil fuel based economy — to heck with the health and safety of every single American citizen? And let me say this, Michel, I do climate change completely differently. I, for the last decade and more, I’ve started on climate with two points. Environmental Justice. Who do we start with? We start in the communities where you can’t breathe without getting asthma. There are communities in California where 92 percent of the kids have childhood asthma, and in the communities where you can’t drink the water without getting sick. Those are communities like Flint, Michigan; Newark, New Jersey; San Joaquin Valley of California; Denmark, South Carolina, black and brown communities. We start with Environmental Justice and the people from those communities as the leaders and partners in this movement. Second of all, to actually deal with climate, we have to rebuild America, which means we’re going to create more than four and a half million direct jobs to rebuild America on an accelerated basis, good paying union jobs across the country, biggest job program in American history. So what we’re talking about — the reason I have to make it priority one is there’s a time associated with it. Do I care about healthcare? Heck, yes. I have been traveling around the United States of America full time for seven years and talking to people. I have been looking them in the eye and I’ve been hearing what’s going on. As far as I’m concerned, what we’re seeing is political violence done by the Republican Party for money to the people of the United States.

MARTIN: But how does that make somebody’s life better right now?

STEYER: Which?

MARTIN: Because isn’t that — the focus that you’ve placed on climate, I mean, how does that make somebody’s life better right now, if your argument to people —

STEYER: If you can breathe and drink the water — if you can breathe and drink the water, those are good things. If you can get a job, a good paying union job, rebuilding the electrical grid, rebuilding buildings, setting up new generating facilities, those are good jobs.

MARTIN: I mean, one of the criticisms or sort of the Zeitgeist criticisms of Washington now, the leadership in Washington now is that it is too white, too male, and too rich. You know, how do you argue to the public, that a person who is among the one percent is the best person to represent their hopes, their dreams, their goals, their needs?

STEYER: Because actually as an outsider, I’ve been doing that. If you look around and see, for 10 years, I have been organizing people to take on and beat corporations. I really have a history of doing it. I mean, I started by taking on oil companies about clean energy in California, because no one else would do it, because they thought they were too rich and too powerful to be beaten. And we got 70 percent of the vote. I’ve taken on the tobacco companies. They’d won 17 times in a row in California. We got a $2.00 pack cigarette taxed, $3 billion to $4 billion a year and gave it to MediCal. I’ve taken on the drug companies. I’ve taken on utilities that didn’t want to clean up their energy generation. I’ve been doing this for 10 years successfully. So if the question is, it’s not a question of, what am I saying I’m going to do? I’ve been doing this. I mean, if the question is, who do you trust? Well, let’s see who’s actually done it. I’ve actually done it.

MARTIN: As of January 13th, you and Mike Bloomberg, also a late arrival to this campaign, the former Mayor of New York City, you’ve spent a combined $320 million out of the $409.8 million in the presidential context, and it really goes back to this question that if the economy is rigged for the one percent, which is something that you hear people complain about on both the political right and the political left. I mean, how does it serve the interests of the public for the two of you to have had such a dominant role in political spending?

STEYER: Let me say this, I’m not Mike Bloomberg. So comparing me with Mike Bloomberg, I mean, I guess at some level, you want to do it, but I don’t consider myself Mike Bloomberg. I think he has a completely different background from mine. I think he’s got a completely different message than mine.

MARTIN: But you’re spending between the two of dwarfs all your other competitors combined. And you can see where it conveys a message to the public that this is an election which is being bought and not won. Can you see why people might feel that way?

STEYER: I’m not saying money doesn’t make any difference, Michel, but what I believe is this, what really is going to make a difference is what your message is. That in fact, the people who are going to do well in this and I don’t know if it’s going to be Mike or me are people who are going to have differential message and something to say that people believe, that people believe you’re telling the truth. They believe it’s important. They believe it’s differential, and they trust you.

MARTIN: OK, tell me about Mike Bloomberg. What do you think of him as a — I mean, what do you think of Mike Bloomberg?

STEYER: I’ve said, look, Mike is a super rich guy, as you said. As far as I’m concerned, he has his own history. But if he wants to lead the Democratic Party, and he’s only been a Democrat for a short period of time, then he has to raise the wealth tax. Look, as far as I’m concerned, if you’re not willing to redress this severe income inequality and wealth inequality in this country, then I don’t think you’re appropriate to be representative of the Democratic Party, because as far as I’m concerned, you’ve got to confront the fact that something has gone very, very wrong in this country.

MARTIN: The fact of the matter is — you’re a numbers guy — your numbers really haven’t moved. I mean, the fact is, you’re polling at two percent nationally in most of the major polls. It’s true that in South Carolina, you’re starting to, you know, show some momentum, you’re still I think, what? Around 15 percent, would you agree in South Carolina?

STEYER: I think it’s a little better than that.

MARTIN: You think it’s a little better than that?

STEYER: Yes.

MARTIN: Okay. But that’s still not a winnable number. Why not support the people — let me just finish — why not support the people who have already demonstrated strength and demonstrated a presence with the Democratic electorate? Why not support them? Why not invest in them?

STEYER: Because I said there two things that I thought were true that got me into the race, which is, as an outsider, I really felt we had to talk about how are we going to get this change? Not exactly what change do you want? The fact that no one else is putting climate as their number one priority. And I believe I can beat Trump on the economy. And I think we’re going to have to beat Mr. Trump. We’re going to have to beat him on the economy. I believe I’m positioned to do that in a way that nobody else is.

MARTIN: Okay, but do you have time to make that case? I mean, you really haven’t cracked, you know, double digits anywhere except here, South Carolina, maybe you’re making some momentum there. You’re certainly investing a lot of money there.

STEYER: In Nevada.

MARTIN: And Nevada. True.

STEYER: There are four early primary states. A poll came out today, called the Morning Consult poll. They do it every single week. They do 2,500 people a week. They had me at an average in the four early primary states of 15 percent, in third place.

MARTIN: Okay.

STEYER: I’ve had — my numbers have gone up virtually every single week since I got in in July as a pretty much unknown person. And actually, my numbers are moving. So I understand your point, I’ve always believed that I’m saying something different. If I change my mind, and I don’t believe I can win, I’ll get out. But I believe I’m saying something different that’s really important to be said, and I’m saying it.

MARTIN: One of the issues on the table right now is our ongoing presence in the Middle East, and I just like to ask what your approach would be.

STEYER: Well, let me take a step back and say this. I believe that we’ve been best served around the world when we’re working in coalition with our traditional allies. I believe in the Middle East, just to go back to President Obama that he did a very good job with regards to Iran and putting together a coalition of countries to negotiate with Iran and have them give up their nuclear ambitions for 10 years in return for some economic sanctions being lifted. When I look at the Middle East, I can see 20 years of failed Middle East Policy with America basically going it alone in a bilateral confrontational way, moving to military action. I view that as, it obviously hasn’t worked. It’s been a failure. In fact, we haven’t had a strategic, you know, design in the Middle East, as far as I can tell. We haven’t had a process where we’re working towards a strategy, particularly one that we can articulate along with our allies pushing together to create a safer world.

MARTIN: So what would you do first, should you be elected?

STEYER: In terms of the Middle East?

MARTIN: Yes.

STEYER: The first thing is I’d go back to our allies and start talking together about the strategy that we’re going to use to work, you know, to get Iran back on track out of this escalating confrontation that Mr. Trump has put us in. That would be the first thing. I think the second question we have to ask ourselves is, what are we trying to do in the Middle East? We’ve spent so much time there. We’ve been through so many series of wars. We spent so much — so many of our service people’s lives. We’ve been involved in the death of so many hundreds of thousands of people from that region’s lives. The question is, what exactly are we trying to accomplish?

MARTIN: Okay, so would you try to resurrect the Iran Nuclear Deal?

STEYER: Yes.

MARTIN: Israel and Palestine? What would be your philosophy?

STEYER: My philosophy in Israel is simple. I believe that we are — we’ve said we are a strong ally of Israel, and we’ll make sure that it has — its right to exist continues.

MARTIN: Would you move our embassy back to Tel Aviv from Jerusalem?

STEYER: Let me say this before we get to that, Michel. I’d say this, I believe in a two-state solution. That is the only solution I can see. I believe that the idea of ending that and all the different ways that this administration has basically gone against the idea of a two-state solution, In my mind, it makes Israel less safe and makes us less safe. And In fact, if a big part of what I think protects us around the world, is the idea that we’re trying to do the right thing. That we’re honest. We stand up for people. We’re for human rights. We’re for democracy, and we do the right thing. Anytime we’re perceived otherwise, I think that makes us less safe. I think that we create enemies. I think the idea of being a country whose safety comes because we have the biggest guns and we’re willing to use it. It’s not a way to be safe.

MARTIN: Would you move the embassy back to Tel Aviv? The U.S. Embassy to – –

STEYER: Yes.

MARTIN: You would.

STEYER: Yes.

MARTIN: Well, the decisions seem to have been very popular amongst certain some communities in the United States. What would you say to them?

STEYER: I would say, I understand that that we’ve said we will make sure that Israel retains its right to exist, and I absolutely will do that. But I believe that every provocation we have, that we commit, that we perpetuate, where we actually try and where we don’t seem to be being fair, where we’re moving away from a two-state solution, where we’re basically being perceived as being self-interested, or too closely aligned with Mr. Netanyahu is a mistake. That in fact, what protects us, really around the world is if you go around the world and people say, we know the United States stands for what’s right. We know that in their heart, they’re trying to do the right thing. That is the protection that we have.

MARTIN: If there was one thing you would say, gets you up in the morning, and out on the campaign trail, what is it?

STEYER: I feel like I’m making my stand. You know, I mean, people — I understand people can be critical, and I understand that. But as far as I’m concerned, I’m seeing something deeply wrong and I’ve been fighting it for 10 years, and this is as elemental as I can get.

MARTIN: You feel like this is something you’re called to do? This is why you’re here right now.

STEYER: Look, I was talking my daughter — I was talking to my daughter who has quit her job or she’s postponed her job to go door-to-door. She was saying, you know, well, it’s such a privilege to get to meet people. They’re very, very honest. She is basically knocking doors, she said every day, someone tells me something they don’t tell their best friend or their family, and then they cry, and then I cry. And I said, you know, the thing is, this process makes you a much better person and it makes you a much more spiritual person. It’s made me much more religious person. She said, you know, dad, I’m not religious at all. It’s making me much more religious, too. This is — there’s something going on here that’s much deeper than the political conversation we’re having, and if you see that kind of change in people’s life expectancy because of despair in the United States of America, we know that we need to change and we really deeply do.

MARTIN: Tom Steyer, thank you so much for talking to us.

STEYER: Michel, nice to meet you.

MARTIN: Appreciate it.