May 22, 2020

> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & CO.'

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

WILL THE UNITED STATES CITY BE THE SOLE SUPER POWER IN A POST COVID WORLD?

AS THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION APPROACHES, WE GET LATEST ON WHAT VISION WILL WIN WITH THE POLITICAL REPORT AMY WALTER.

THEN COLLECTIVE TRAUMA AND THE CORONAVIRUS PSYCHOLOGIST JACK SAUL ON THE NEED FOR COLLECTIVE HEALING.

PLUS, INEQUALITY'S DE STATING TOLL ON HEALTH.

THE CEO OF THE CHICAGO COMMUNITY TRUST DR. HELENE GAYLE.

AND FINALLY -- ♪♪♪ THE DEFIANT AND JOYFUL SOUNDS OF ANGELIQUE KIDJO.

> 'AMANPOUR & CO.' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY ROSALIND P. WALTER, BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ, SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND, THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR WORKING FROM LONDON.

AS THE WORLD STARTS TO REEMERGE, SO, TOO, THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

WHILE THE VIRUS STARTED IN CHINA, BEIJING HAS USED THE CRISIS TO PROJECT ITS SOFT POWER, GLOBAL DIPLOMACY AND A STRONG DESIRE TO BE THE NEXT POWER IN CHIEF.

NOT TO BE OUTDONE, EUROPE IS MAKING EFFORTS TO RISE FROM THIS CRISIS EVEN MORE UNITED AS A BLOCK THAT CAN HOLD ITS OWN WITH CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES.

THE FRENCH AND GERMAN LEADERS PITCHING AN UNPRECEDENTED EURO FUND FOR THE I.'S HARDEST HIT COUNTRIES SECONDING A STRONG SIGNAL.

AT A TIME WHEN THE CURRENT UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT OF THE WORLD SEEPS TO WANT NOTHING 22nd THE GLOBAL LEADERSHIP HIGHLIGHTED BY THE RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC.

THE 2020 SELECTION PIVOTAL AND IT PITS TRUMP AGAINST BIDEN AND TWO VASTLY DIFFERENT VISIONS FOR THE FUTURE.

IN THE MIDST OF A PANDEMIC AND WITH SIX MONTHS TO GO, WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF RACE?

AMY WALTER, NATIONAL EDITOR FOR THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT JOINS ME NOW TO TRY TO BREAK THIS ALL DOWN.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

LET ME START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED JUST BEFORE WE WENT ON THE AIR.

PRESIDENT TRUMP CAME OUT AND IN KIND OF A RUSHED STATEMENT, TAKING NO QUESTIONS AND ANNOUNCING THAT HE IS ORDERING ALL HOUSES OF WORSHIP TO OPEN THIS WEEKEND.

WHY NOW?

AS YOU KNOW, WHAT THIS PRESIDENT REALLY DOES LIKE TO DO IS TO STIR POTS.

SPECIFICALLY ON CULTURAL ISSUES AND SOCIAL ISSUES.

THIS IS WHAT KEEPS HIM MOTIVATED AND WE'VE BEEN SEEING THESE PROTESTS POP UP IN A NUMBER OF STATES.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE DO KNOW THAT MOST AMERICANS STILL FEEL VERY ANXIOUS.

THEY'RE NOT QUITE READY FOR THEIR STATES TO OPEN UP QUICKLY.

THE PRESIDENT KNOWS THAT HE WANTS TO MAKE THE ELECTION NOT SO MUCH A REFERENDUM ON HOW HE'S HANDLING THE CRISIS BUT A REFERENDUM ON THE CULTURAL ISSUES SURROUNDING THE WAY WE REACT TO A CRISIS LIKE THIS.

SO PITTING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GO TO CHURCH VERSUS, I HEARD HIM SAY, WE CAN HAVE MARIJUANA SHOPS OPEN AND LIQUOR STORES OPEN, CERTAINLY WE COULD HAVE CHURCHES OPEN, IGNORING THAT OF COURSE THE WHOLE SITUATION, WHETHER YOU'RE OPENING A GROCERY STORE, A LIQUOR STORE OR WHATEVER DOES REQUIRE THE SOCIAL DISTANCING AND THERE ARE RULES AROUND IT.

BUT ALAS.

OKAY.

I'M GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE OF WHAT HE SAID AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT.

TODAY I'M IDENTIFYING HOUSES OF WORSHIP, CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES, AND MOSQUES AS ESSENTIAL PLACES THAT PROVIDE ESSENTIAL SERVICES.

SOME GOVERNORS HAVE DEEMED LIQUOR STORES, ABORTION CLINICS AS ESSENTIAL.

BUT THEY'VE LEFT OUT CHURCHES AND OTHER HOUSES OF WORSHIP SO I'M CORRECTING THIS INJUSTICE AND CALLING HOUSES OF WORSHIP ESSENTIAL.

AMY, HE ALSO WENT ON TO SAY SOMETHING THAT I THINK RAISED A LOT OF EYEBROWS.

HE SAID THE GOVERNORS MAY NOT LIKE IT.

THEY MAY CALL ME BUT THEY WON'T GET NO CHANGE MY MIND.

HE'S SAYING, WHAT I SAY GOES ON THIS.

WHAT IS THE CONSTITUTIONAL PREROGATIVE?

DO THE GOVERNORS HAVE THE SAY IN THEIR STATE OR IS IT A PRESIDENTIAL EXECUTIVE ORDER?

IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE GOVERNORS WHO HAVE THE SAY-SO HERE.

AND I'VE BEEN TALKING TO A BUNCH OF MAYORS AND OTHER LOCAL OFFICIALS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO CHURCH THAT'S THE AS WELL.

AND ONE WHO IS DESPERATE TO OPEN HIS CHURCH IS ALSO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT MAKING SURE HE'S ABLE TO DO NIGHT WAY THAT KEEPS HIS CONGREGATION SAFE.

SO EVEN IF THE GOVERNORS OF THE STATE SAID TODAY, YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY OPEN, MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF MAKING THOSE DECISIONS, WHO RUN THESE HOUSES OF WORSHIP, ARE SAYING THEY'RE STILL VERY NERVOUS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DO THIS IN A SAFEWAY.

BUT NO, THE PRESIDENT DOES NOT SAY ONE STATE CAN DO ONE THING OVER WHAT THE HEALTH THAT'S THE AND THE GOVERNORS SAY.

SO LET'S MOVE ON TO HOW THIS MIGHT PLAY INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

OBVIOUSLY PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS THE BULLY PULPIT, AS THEY CALL IT.

HE HAS ABSOLUTE CONTROL OF THE AIRWAVES.

HE IS DOMINANT IN THE PUBLIC SPACE.

JOE BIDEN AS EVERYBODY SAYS, IS IN THE BASEMENT.

IT IS A REALLY BAD LOOK AND A BAD STATEMENT.

NONETHELESS, IT LOOKS LIKE TO AVERAGE POLLS SHOW BIDEN STILL HAS A FAIRLY DECENT LEAD.

CAN YOU BREAK DOWN WHERE WE ARE IN TERMS OF POLLING RIGHT NOW BETWEEN THESE TWO CANDIDATES?

THAT'S RIGHT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE AVERAGE OF POLLING NOW, JOE BIDEN IS AHEAD SOMEWHERE BY ABOUT 5 POINTS NATIONALLY.

REMEMBER, HILLARY CLINTON WON THE NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE BY ABOUT 2 POINTS.

SO IT IS TWICE AS BIG AS THE LEAD THAT HILLARY CLINTON HAD ON ELECTION DAY.

HE'S LEADING BY VERY NARROW MARGINS IN MANY OF THE BATTLE GROUND STATES.

THESE TWO DEMOCRATS ARE WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR.

AND THE MAP ITSELF IS LOOKING, IT IS A LITTLE TILTED TOWARD BIDEN RIGHT NOW.

THERE ARE MORE STATES THAT WE CONSIDER THAT ARE SAFELY DEMOCRATIC THAN ARE SAFELY REPUBLICAN.

AND WHEN IT COPS WILL TO THE POST MORE BATTLE GROUND STATES, THE BUNS ARE VERY, VERY CLOSE, INNER TO WIN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE, JOE BIDEN WILL NEED TO WIN A LITTLE LESS THAN 40% OF THE STATES.

THE BURDEN IS ON DONALD TRUMP.

HE NEEDS TO WIN MORE THAN TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE STATES.

HE CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE PLACES LIKE FLORIDA OR NORTH CAROLINA OR -- WELL, WISCONSIN, ACTUALLY.

I WOULD PUT IN THAT CATEGORY.

SO LET ME ASK YOU.

EVERYBODY ASSUMED, THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF DECLARED THAT HE WOULD BE RUNNING ON HIS RECORD AND THAT WOULD BE THE ECONOMIC RECORD, MOSTLY.

AND THE ECONOMY WAS GOING GANG BUSTERS BEFORE THIS.

NOW YOU HAVE TENS OF THAT'S OF AMERICANS UNEMPLOYED.

YOU HAVE A REALLY DEEP RECESSION AS THEY SAID, DEPRESSION ERA LEVELS PREDICTED.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WILL RUN ON.

SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN ANALYSTS HAVE SAID, HE MIGHT BE ABLE, THE ECONOMY MIGHT BOUNCE BACK.

OTHERWISE IT MIGHT BE RUNNING AGAINST OBAMA, AS WEIRD AS THAT SOUNDS, OR RUNNING AGAINST CHINA, WHICH YOU CAN SEE THE OUTLINES OF THAT HAPPENING.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WELL, EVEN WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS GOING GANG BUSTERS, THE PRESIDENT WASN'T ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

HE WAS STILL TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND THE BORDER WALL AND CARE VANDALS AND SANCTUARY CITIES AND OTHER THINGS THAT WEREN'T ABOUT THE GOOD ECONOMY.

AND THE GOOD ECONOMY WASN'T NECESSARILY BENEFITING HIM.

HIS OVERALL JOB APPROVAL RATINGS AREN'T MUCH BETTER OR WORSE TODAY THAN THEY WERE A YEAR AGO WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS SETTING ALL KINDS OF RECORDS.

SO THE REALITY IS THAT THE ECONOMY IN AND OF ITSELF WAS NEVER, I DON'T THINK, ENOUGH ALONE TO ELECT DONALD TRUMP AND IT IS NOT NECESSARILY THE ISSUE THAT WILL SINK DONALD TRUMP EITHER.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THE PRESIDENT HAS AND HAS ALWAYS HAD IS BEING BIG ENOUGH TO GET THAT MESSAGE THROUGH.

YOU REMEMBER THE 2018 ELECTIONS, REPUBLICANS ON THE BALLOT, MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THEY WERE DESPERATE FOR THE PRESIDENT TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

TO TALK UP THE ECONOMY AND MAKE THE RACE A REFERENDUM ON THE ECONOMY.

THAT WASN'T NECESSARILY WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTED TO DO.

THE CULTURE WAR PIECE ATTACKING DEMOCRATS WAS MUCH MORE INTERESTING.

IT IS THE STUFF HE TOOK THE RALLIES AND ON HIS TWITTER FEED.

AND IT WAS DEMOCRATS WHO MADE THE RACE NOT JUST A REFERENDUM ON DONALD TRUMP BUT ON HEALTH CARE.

I KIND OF EXPECT TO SEE THIS GOING FORWARD.

THE PRESIDENT WILL TRY AT SOME POINT, HE'S THE ONE WHO CAN BRING THE ECONOMY BACK.

HE HAS THE KNOW-HOW AND POLLS DO SHOW THAT HE IS STILL SEEN POSITIVELY WITH HIS HANDLING OF THE ECONOMY.

BUT VOTERS HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE.

WHAT THEY SEEM TO BE SAYING, DESPITE THEY THOUGHT THE ECONOMY WAS GOOD, THEY WEREN'T GIVING THEIR VOTE TO DONALD TRUMP, NOT ALL OF THEM WERE GIVING THEIR VOTE TO DONALD TRUMP.

WHEN THE ECONOMY IS BAD, THEY MAY NOT BLAME DONALD TRUMP FOR THE CRASH OF THE ECONOMY.

BUT THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY LOCK TO GIVE HIM CREDIT IF THE ECONOMY COMES BACK.

IT IS REALLY MUCH MORE A REFERENDUM ON WHO HE IS THAN WHAT HE'S DOING.

AND I MENTIONED OBAMA.

AS YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE OBAMA-GATE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS TALKING LOT ABOUT TOUB LAST DAYS AND WEEKS AND SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS HIS STRATEGY.

WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT OBAMA-TRUMP VOTERS.

IS THERE A CHANCE WE'LL SEE IT IN 2020?

THAT'S WHAT THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN IS HOPING.

JOE BIDEN DOESN'T NEED TO WIN BACK ALL THE VOTERS.

WHERE DEMOCRATS HAVE HAD SUCCESS SINCE OBAMA LEFT OFFICE IS WITH A NEW GROUP OF VOTERS.

THE SUBURBAN AFFLUENT WHITE VOTERS WHO HAD BEEN VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS LIKE JOHN McCAIN AND MITT ROMNEY BUT WHO VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON, FOR A DEMOCRAT IN 2018, WHO SAY THEY'RE VOTING FOR JOE BIDEN THIS 84.

WHAT JOE BIDEN NEEDS TO DO IS NOT NECESSARILY WIN THEM ALL BACK OF HE NEEDS TO GET SOME OF WILL THEN BACK IN A STATE LIKE PENNSYLVANIA, THAT MEANS INSTEAD OF GETTING BLOWN OUT AS HILLARY CLINTON DID IN SOME OF THE SMALLER COUNTIES, WHERE SHE TOOK 25 OR LIVE TO% OF THE VOTE.

HE JUST TAKES 30 OR 40%. PUT ENOUGH OF THE SMALL GAINS TOGETHER.

THEY ADD UP PRETTY QUICKLY.

AND JARED KUSHNER, THE PRESIDENT'S SON-IN-LAW AND CHIEF ADVISER, RAISED A LOT OF HACKLES AND A LOT OF ATTENTION WHEN HE SUGGESTED, HE DIDN'T SAY NO, TO POTENTIALLY THE ELECTION NOT HAPPENING.

HE SAID THAT'S THE PLAN, IT SHOULD HAPPEN ON SCHEDULE BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU RIGHT NOW.

IS THAT EVEN IN THE ATMOSPHERE?

IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?

THE PRESIDENT'S SON-IN-LAW CANNOT DECLARE IT NOT HAPPENING.

HERE IS SOMETHING TO UNDERSTAND WITH THE ELECTION.

RIGHT NOW A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL DON'T FEEL SAFE.

THEY TELL POLLSTERS THEY DON'T FEEL SAFE WITH THE IDEA OF GOING TO A POLLING PLACE.

THAT IS ONLY SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, VOTERS ACTUALLY VOTING.

MOST OF THE STATES THAT ARE BATTLE GROUND STATES, THE STATES THAT WILL DETERMINE WHO THE PRESIDENT IS, ALREADY HAVE VOTE BY MAIL SYSTEMS.

SO IT IS ALREADY LEGAL TO VOTE BY MAIL.

A LOT OF STATES, ESPECIALLY IN THE MET, DON'T HAVE ROBUST SYSTEMS.

VERY FEW HAVE BEEN VOTING BY MAIL AND NOW THEY'LL HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TURN AROUND A VOTE BY MAIL PROGRAM IN A PRETTY SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME.

IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY FRARKS 42, ESPECIALLY FOR SOME OF THE SMALLER COUNTIES.

THEY WON'T HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY, THE WORKERS NEEDED TO DO THIS.

SO THIS SETS UP FOR WHAT I THINK WILL BE THE BIGGER CHALLENGE IN 2020.

MAKING SURE VOTERS WHO WANT TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS ARE ABLE TO DO THAT.

THAT THE VOTES ARE ABLE TO BE COUNTED.

THAT PEOPLE FEEL CONFIDENT, THAT THE BALLOT WILL MAKE IT FROM THEIR HOME TO THE MAILBOX AND TO THE VOTING PLACE.

YEAH.

TRUMP HIMSELF DISCUSSED THIS IN MICHIGAN YESTERDAY.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID ABOUT IT.

WE WON'T TO GO VOTING BY MAIL.

VOTING BY MAIL IS BROUGHT WITH FRAUD AND ABUSE AND PEOPLE DON'T GET THEIR BALLOTS THAT HAPPEN TO BE IN A CERTAIN DISTRICT, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

THOUSANDS OF BALLOTS ARE SENT OUT BUT THEY DON'T HAPPEN TO GET THEM SO PEOPLE SAY WHERE IS MY BALLOT?

WHERE IS IT?

WHERE IS IT?

THE SELECTION COMING.

SO CLEARLY TRYING TO SOW DISTRUST.

SO IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT WOULD MAKE WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAYS IS TRO?

ANY EVIDENCE OF GROSS FRAUD WHEN IT COMES THE MAIL BALLOTS?

THERE'S REALLY NOT.

WILL PEOPLE ALSO REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO VOTE BY MAIL.

WE SAW A LITTLE BIT OF A MESS IN WISCONSIN IN APRIL.

BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE THIS HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY.

TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER A VOTE BY MAIL SYSTEM ALMOST OVERNIGHT.

SO THERE WERE DEFINITELY SOME PROBLEMS BUT IT WAS NOT ABOUT FRAUD.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT BIDEN.

HE HAS THIS VIEW THAT HE'S NOT REALLY THROUGHOUT RIGHT NOW AND THE PRESIDENT IS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT CALLING HIM SLEEPY, ALL OF.

STUFF.

WHAT DOES HE NEED TO DO TO GENERATE SOME BUZZ?

TO MAKE THE A CAMPAIGN, EVEN THOUGH IT IS REALLY DIFFICULT IN A PANDEMIC.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS INSIPPENT MOVEMENT, GIVEN THAT A POLL SHOWS HE'S THE SINGLE MOST POPULAR POLITICIAN IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.

WOULD HE BE A CHOICE?

DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

GOOD BIDEN STEP BACK FROM HIS PUBLIC PLEDGE TO HAVE A WOMAN VICE PRESIDENT?

LET'S TAKE THE FIRST ONE.

DOES HE NEED TO GET OUT OF HIS BASEMENT?

NO CANDIDATE WANTS TO BE TRAPPED IN THEIR HOUSE THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN BUT THERE IS THE SAYING IN POLITICS AS IN LIFE.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

JOE BIDEN IS AHEAD IN THE POLLS WHILE HE'S IN THE BASEMENT.

I THINK A BIG PART OF THAT REASON IS THAT THE FOCUS IS ON DONALD TRUMP.

AND THAT'S THE BEST PLACE FOR JOE BIDEN TO HAVE THIS CAMPAIGN.

FOR IT TO BE A REFERENDUM ON DONALD TRUMP.

DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO MAKE IT A CHOICE BETWEEN JOE BIDEN, THAT HE WANTS TO CHARACTERIZE AS SLEEPY OR IN SOME CASES SENILE.

SO I DON'T THINK THIS HAS PURT JOE BIDEN.

I THINK GETTING A WOMAN ON THE TICKET WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT FOR HIM.

IN LARGE PART IT WILL SHOW THAT HE INFORMS THROUGH ON PROMISES THAT HE'S MADE.

AND WHETHER PEOPLE CAN TRUST THE THINGS THAT HE HAS SAID.

BUT ALSO, BECAUSE WOMEN REALLY ARE THE BACK BONE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THEY WERE REALLY THE ROANE WHY DEMOCRATS DID SO WELL IN THE 2018 MID-TERM ELECTION.

AMY WALTER, NATIONAL EDITOR OF THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT OF THE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

AND WE TURN NEXT TO THE ISSUE OF MENTAL HEALTH OF AT THIS TIME OF GREAT STRESS ACROSS THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, IN NEW YORK, OF COURSE, THE CITY WORST HIT BY CORONAVIRUS, THE GOVERNOR, ANDREW CUOMO, IS TRYING TO GET CITIZENS TO OPEN BUT THAT THEIR MENTAL HEALTH WITH THE HOW ARE YOU REALLY CAMPAIGN.

TAKE A LISTEN.

SO HOW AM I REALLY FEELING?

WELL, I'M SAD FOR THE NUMBER OF NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF THIS AWFUL VIRUS.

AND I'M SAD ABOUT THE PAIN SO MANY FAMILIES NOW FEEL.

I'M FRIGHTENED BY THIS VIRUS AND FRIGHTENED BY WHAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS VIRUS.

THE FACTS KEEP CHANGING.

JUST WHEN YOU HAVE A SENSE OF CONTROL, IT'LL SEEPS THE FACTS CHANGE AGAIN OF WILL.

SO THAT'S A REALLY PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM A LEADER.

THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS IS ALSO WARNING THAT FAMILIES ARE BEING HIT WITH ADDITIONAL MENTAL STRESS NOW.

AND JOINING ME IS JACK SAUL, A PSYCHOLOGIST AND AUTHOR OF COLLECTIVE TRAUMA, COLLECTIVE HEALING.

PROMOTING COMMUNITY RESILIENCE IN THE AFTERMATH OF DISASTER.

HE SPECIALIZES IN TROETING TRUM A MASSIVE SCALE AFTER WARS AND NATURAL DISASTERS.

I THINK YOU'RE IN NEW YORK WORKING FROM HOPE AS A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE.

SO WELCOME.

AND TELL ME, PARTICULARLY REPLYING OFF WHAT WE JUST HEARD FROM THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE.

WHAT IS, HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY COLLECTIVE TRAUMA FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS EXERCISE?

COLLECTIVE TRAUMA IS A MASS TRAUMA SITUATION THAT AFFECTS THE ENTIRE POPULATION.

SO THE DANGERS OF COLLECTIVE TRAUMAS OPPOSED TO JUST INDIVIDUAL TRAUMA, WHAT WE DEAL WITH ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, IS THAT IT HAS THE POTENTIAL OF UNRAVELING OUR SOCIAL FABRIC.

AND GIVING A SENSE OF A LACK OF BELONGING AND A LOSS OF COMMONALITY.

SO THIS CAUSES ANOTHER TYPE OF STRESS WHEN WE FEEL THIS LARGE SCALE TRAUMA IS UNDERMINING OUR SOCIAL FOUNDATION.

AND IT IS SOMETHING PEOPLE DON'T NECESSARILY, AND THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY AWARE OF.

IT HAS AN IMPACT ON THEM OVER TIME.

SO LET ME ASK YOU.

SOMETIMES IT IS GOOD TO GET A FEW REAL LIFE EXAMPLES.

AND YOU HAVE BEEN THERE ON THE GROUND, SO TO SPEAK, IN THESE CREDIBLE CASES OF MASS TRAUMA.

AFTER 9/11.

YOU'VE BEEN ABROAD.

YOU'VE DEALT WITH ISSUES AND YOU'VE OBSERVED ISSUES IN PLACES LIKE KOSOVO AFTER THE WAR THERE.

TELL ME HOW IT MANIFESTS THERE.

WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN 9/11.

WHAT WAS THE TRAUMA AND HOW DID YOU TREAT PATIENTS?

HOW DID YOU SORT OF ENVISION THE COLLECTIVE HEALING THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, TRYING TO GET OUT OF THOSE HUGE EVENTS?

WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE THEN?

IN A DISASTER SITUATION, WE'RE LOOKING BEYOND JUST THE INDIVIDUAL THERAPY THAT CAN BE OFFERED TO A CERTAIN PART OF THE POPULATION.

WHAT IS MOST NEEDED IS FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THE CHALLENGES THEY'RE FACING.

SO WE CALL THIS FAMILY AND COMMUNITY RESILIENCE THAT NEEDS TO BE STRENGTHENED.

IN MANY OF THE PLACES AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING AFTER 9/11 AND IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES POST DISASTER, POST-WAR, THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO IS FIND WAYS OF CREATING SUPPORTS FOR THE FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES SO THEY CAN ADDRESS THE CHALLENGES THEMSELVES.

THIS WAS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AFTER 9/11.

WE WERE ABLE TO MOBILIZE COMMUNITIES IN NEW YORK CITY TO SAY THESE ARE THE CHALLENGES WE'RE FACING WEST DON'T NECESSARILY NEED A THERAPIST TO COME IN AND HELP US.

WE'RE ACTIVE.

WE'RE NOT PASSIVE VICTIMS.

WE KNOW WHAT IS NEEDED BY THE MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY AND WE CAN BEGIN TO ADDRESS THOSE NEEDS SO WE WOULD HAVE COMMUNITY FORUMS TO TALK ABOUT THE NEEDS OF FAMILIES, CHILDREN, TEACHERS, EXCUSE.

TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BEST ADDRESS THE NEEDS.

AND THESE CHALLENGES ARE MOVING BACK OUT OF SOCIAL DISTANCING AND ISOLATION AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS IN A WAY THAT WILL BE THE SAFEST FOR ALL PEOPLE INVOLVED.

BUT WITH ATTENTION TO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IF IT IS BECOMING UNSAFE AGAIN.

HOW DO WE MONITOR IT AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT WE RESPOND TO THE ONGOING NEEDS.

OBVIOUSLY, MANY OF US THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THERAPY, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF EVERYBODY IS ABLE TO GO TO A THERAPY SESSION IF THEY NEED IT, TALK TO SOMEBODY, PROEHL, BUT IS PART OF THIS COMMUNITY AS YOU CALL COLLECT COMMUNITY RESILIENCE.

IS IT BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST WAY?

OR IS IT BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT THE RESOURCES TO TREAT EVERY LAST PERSON WHO NEEDS THIS KIND OF TRAUMA THERAPY?

IT'S THE BEST WAY.

BECAUSE WE NOTED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

NOT JUST ONE THING.

A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT AFTER A DISASTER.

SO WHILE YOU CAN REFER PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY, HAVE THE MOST NEED FOR THERAPY, AND THERE ARE LIMITED RESOURCES FOR THERAPY AFTER A DISASTER.

YOU WANT TO SAVE THOSE FOR PEOPLE WHO MOST NEED THEM.

IT IS REALLY USEFUL TO CAPITALIZE ON THE RESOURCES THAT YOU DO HAVE IN FAMILIES.

IF YOU BRING PARENTS TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT THAT HOW BEST THEY'RE APPROACHING DEALING WITH THEIR KIDS, AND TO SUPPORT THEM TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORK WITH THEIR KIDS, SOLVE DIFFERENT PROBLEMS, THEN YOU'RE REACHING A MUCH BROADER SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION.

AND YOU'RE PROVIDING A KIND OF MARIX OF SUPPORT FOR MANY PEOPLE THAT'S WHAT WE FOUND AFTER 9/11.

THAT SOME OF THE SUPPORTS HAD TO DO WITH SUPPORTING PARENTS OR SUPPORTING TEACHERS IN THIS BROADER WAY.

YOU'RE NOT JUST SOLVING THE PROBLEMS.

YOU'RE PREVENTING FUTURE PROBLEMS OF THE WILL.

RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS AN EXPLOSION OF I GUESS COLLECTIVE CARE, COLLECTIVE HEALING IF YOU LIKE WITH SO MANY NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS.

SO MANY PEOPLE JUST STEPPING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HELP OTHERS, NO MATTER WHAT WAY POSSIBLE.

WE'RE SEEING IT ALL OVER THE WORLD FROM THE U.S. TO EUROPE AND PLACES BEYOND.

DO YOU THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW IS PART OF THIS?

IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING ON A REAL-TIME BASIS?

AND DO YOU THINK COULD IT LAST AND HAVE RIPPLE EFFECTS IN SOCIETY?

AND FOR PEOPLE'S WELL BEING?

WELL, IT GIVES PEOPLE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF PEOPLE ENGAGE IN THEIR ALTRUISM.

IT CAN HAVE A LASTING EFFECT IN THAT WAY.

BUT IT ALSO, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE AFTER THIS INITIAL PHASE WHERE PEOPLE DO COME TOGETHER, HE THIS DO START GETTING TOGETHER AFTER A DISASTER AND THEY CAN START TO BECOME IRRITABLE.

AND WE BASICALLY WANT TO WARN PEOPLE THAT YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL THAT SOME OF THE TENSIONS YOU'RE FEELING DON'T GET TURNED TO THE PEOPLE CLOSEST TO YOU.

AND WE DO SEE TREMENDOUS TENSION IN THIS SECOND PHASE WE'RE MOVING INTO.

AND WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES FRAGMENTING.

SO IT IS PART OF, THE EFFECT OF A DISASTER ON, A COMMUNITY.

BUT COMMUNITIES HAVE TO REALLY, PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO MODULATE SOME OF THIS TENSION THAT THEY FEEL AND PREVENT CONFLICT.

CONFLICT IS ONE OF THE MOST SERIOUS RISK FACTORS FOR DEALING WITH DISASTER.

YOU'VE SAID THE MOST SERIOUS IMPACT OF COLLECT TRAUMA IS SOCIAL FRAGMENTATION, DIVISION AND CONFLICT.

WE'RE ALREADY SO DIVIDED AND THE U.S. IS VERY, VERY DIVIDED ALREADY.

AND IT IS ALREADY BEING POLITICIZED AS YOU POINT OUT.

ELEMENTS OF REENTRY AND EXITING ARE BEING POLITICIZED.

THE PRESIDENT JUST CAME RIGHT OUT AND SAID THAT HE'LL MAKE GOVERNORS OF THE STATES AGREE WITH HIS MANDATE TO OPEN HOUSES OF WORSHIP.

THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO CREATE A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL OF FEAR AND DIVISION.

WELL, THAT HAPPENS IN A DISASTER, TOO.

SOME OF THE DECISIONS MADE AT THE TOP LEVEL CAN UNDERMINE SOCIETY AS A WHOLE AND THAT'S WHERE SOME OF IT CAN BE COMPENSATED FOR BY WHAT WE DO ON COMMUNITIES AT THIS TIME REALLY NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEMSELVES TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ENGAGING IN THE PRACTICES THAT WILL BE MOST EFFECTIVE AND NOT PUTTING THEMSELVES AT GREATER RISK.

I THINK THIS HAPPENED AFTER 9/11 IN A VERY SIMILAR WAY.

WE WERE TOLD TO GO BACK TO OUR COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT WAS SAFE.

BUT WE DIDN'T TRUST THE GOVERNOR WAS GIVING US THE CORRECT INFORMATION AND THEY DIDN'T GE US.

WE MADE DECISIONS OURSELVES ABOUT WHEN IT WAS SAFE TO GO BACK.

SO SOMETIMES WE NEED TO ADDRESS THIS LACK OF TRUST IN DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE AT THE UPPER LEVELS WITH WHAT WE CAN DO AT A COMMUNITY LEVEL.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT PLAYING OUT NOW IN THIS PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE ARE MAKING, PEOPLE ARE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.

LASTLY, YOU TALK ABOUT RITUALS.

WE KNOW.

WE'VE EXPLORED SOME.

WE'VE SEEN NATIVE-AMERICANS HAVE TALKING CIRCLES.

AND THE GREAT GLORIA STEINEM HAS ADOPTED THAT AS THE TRAUMA OF INEQUALITY AND TRYING TO MOVE THAT ISSUE FORWARD.

WHAT SORT OF RITUALS DO YOU THINK PEOPLE CAN ENGAGE IN TO COLLECTLY, OR INDIVIDUALLY, HEAL FROM THIS CURRENT TRAUMA?

OF COURSE WE NEED RITUALS OF GRIEVING RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE LOST, NOT ONLY INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES BUT THE WAY IT DO YOU THINK TO BE.

THAT IS A MOMENT FOR GRIEVING IN ITSELF.

BUT IN THIS TRANSITIONAL PHASE WHERE WE'RE MOVING WE NEED TO BE ENGAGING AND IMAGINING RITUALS, HOW WE WOULD LIKE THE SEE A VISION OF WHAT THE WORLD COULD BE FOLLOWING THIS.

AND WE'RE GETTING, I THINK PEOPLE ARE HAVING EXPERIENCE THAT'S GIVE THEM A SENSE OF HOW THEY WOULD LIKE THINGS TO BE LATER.

BUT ALSO, BECAUSE OF THE REVELATIONS OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXISTED, SOME OF THE FAULT LINES IN OUR SOCIETY HAVE JUST COME TO THE SURFACE IN THIS PANDEMIC.

THE SOCIAL INEQUALITY, THE RACIAL ENEQUALITY.

IT IS SEEN IN THE VICTIMS OF THE FAULT LINES.

WE NOW KNOW I THINK PRETTY CLEARLY THAT THE HEALTH OF SOCIETY AS A WHOLE DEPENDS ON THE HEALTH OF EVERYONE IN THE SOCIETY.

AND THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO BE GAINFULLY EMPLOYED.

THIS ECONOMIC INEQUALITY MAKES US LESS IMMUNE TO THE PANDEMIC.

WE HAVE TO LEAVE 30th BUT WE'LL DIG FURTHER DOWN INTO THAT, THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

BECAUSE JACK SAUL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE'LL BE TALKING NOW ABOUT HOW THIS HAS DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED PEOPLE OF CHORE.

THE MORTALITY RATE FOR BLACK AMERICANS IS ALMOST TWO AND A HALF TIMES HIGHER THAN THE RATE FOR WHITES.

AND OUR NEXT GUEST DR. HELENE GAYLE EXPLAINS WHY.

SHE IS THE FORMER DIRECTOR FOR THE CDC'S NATIONAL CENTER FOR HIV, STD AND TB PREVENTION.

SHE NOW LEADS THE CHICAGO COMMUNITY TRUST.

HERE SHE IS SPEAKING WITH MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU.

DR. GAYLE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I HATE TO START WITH THIS.

BUT YOU'VE HAD 20 YEARS WITH THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL, YOU'VE WORKED IN INFECTIOUS DISEASES ANDO RODE.

I'M GUESSING THAT YOU WERE AWARE OF THIS PANDEMIC LITTLE EARLIER, WHAT THE POSSIBLE IMPLICATIONS COULD BE EARLIER THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE.

AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, SOME 92,000 DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES LONDON.

1.5 MILLION INFECTIONS.

DID YOU SEE THIS COMING?

THIS MAGNITUDE?

ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN FOCUSED ON THESE ISSUES KNEW THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS POSSIBLE.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF US REALLY PREDICTED HOW FAST AND HOW FURIOUS THIS PLR PANDEMIC WOULD UNFOLD.

I THINK WE DEFINITELY COULD HAVE SEEN THE SIGNS MUCH EARLIER.

AS WE SAW IT UNFOLDING AROUND THE WORLD, I THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WARNING TO US TO QUICKLY ACT AND MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN WE DID AT A TIME WHEN THE INFECTIONS WERE NOT AS PREVALENT IN THE COMMUNITY.

THE TIMING WHEN YOU PUT ACTIONS INTO PLACE IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT.

DOING IT EARLY DOES HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON HOW YOU STEM THE TIDE.

AND I THINK WE COULD HAVE, AND THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT WAS SARS YESTERDAY, EBOLA THE DAY BEFORE.

IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME WHEN ANOTHER INFECTIOUS DISEASE COPS THROUGH OUR POPULATION.

WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN READY.

WE SHOULD HAVE ACTED EARLIER.

NOW WE'RE SEEING THE CONSEQUENCES.

RECOGNIZING THAT IT IS HARD FOR TO US CRITICIZE OUR COLLEAGUES, WHAT ABOUT THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL IN ALL THIS?

EVEN THE ADMINISTRATION HAS CRITICIZED THAT AGENCY FOR THE EARLY TESTS.

CREATING A BOTTLENECK WITH THE TESTIMONIES.

EFFECTIVELY, THEY WERE INEFFECTIVE.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

THE FACT THERE WERE FLAWS IN THE ORIGINAL TESTS, PEOPLE WERE MOVING FAST.

BUT THAT DOES NOT MOAN THAT THIS AGENCY THE CAPACITY IF GIVEN THE RIGHT TOOLS, GIVEN THE RIGHT RESOURCES, AND GIVEN THE ABILITY TO DO ITS TASK, THAT IT COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT MORE RAPIDLY.

YOU'RE SAYING YOU DON'T THINK IT IS INCOMPETENCE.

YOU THINK IT IS A MATTER OF WHAT?

UNDERFUNDING?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT IS?

BECAUSE IT IS THE LEADERSHIP OF THE AGENCY.

I THINK IT IS HARD FROM OUTSIDE TO MAKE DIAGNOSIS WHAT THE CHALLENGES ARE.

I KNOW WHEN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM WORKS WELL, WHEN WE HAVE LEADERSHIP AT THE TOP, WHEN THE DEPARTMENTS ARE WELL COORDINATED AND THE AGENCIES WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT HAVE WHAT THEY NEED, WE'RE ABLE TO DELIVER.

AND I THINK WE WEREN'T ABLE TO DELIVER BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ALL THOSE PIECES IN PLACE.

WHEN THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED, WHEN THE MANDATES OF AGENCIES ARE ALLOWED TO ON OPERATE AND DO WHAT THEY DO BEST.

I THINK WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT, WHERE WERE THE STUMBLING BLOCKS?

WHERE WAS THE DOOR COORDINATION, THE FOCUS THIS WAS SOMETHING SERIOUS SO ALL HANDS WERE ON DECK AND EVERYBODY WAS WORKING TO THEIR CAPACITY.

SO LET'S TO GO HOW THIS DISEASE IS AFFECTING DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES DIFFERENTLY.

I KNOW PEOPLE LIKE THE SAY, WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

THE VIRUS DOESN'T CARE IF YOU'RE RICH OR POOR OR WHO YOU ARE.

IT KIND OF FEELS LIKE THAT'S NOT TRUE.

CHICAGO LONDON, THE CITY IS 30% AFRICAN-AMERICANS BUT 70% OF THE DEATHS.

THE DEATH RATE FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS IS HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER GROUP IN THE COUNTRY.

THE COVID-19 MORTALITY FOR BLACK AMERICANS IS 2.4 TIMES AS HIGH AS THE RATE FOR WHITES.

HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

THE DEATH RATE, PARTICULARLY THE HIGHER DEATH RATE IN AFRICAN-AMERICANS IS PROBABLY EXPLAINED BY THE FACT AFRICAN-AMERICANS ALSO HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT OF DISEASES.

IT IS A WORSE OUTCOME.

LUNG DISEASES, ET CETERA.

IT MEANS IF YOU GET THIS, YOU'RE LIKELY SERIOUS COMPLICATIONS AND DEATH.

BUT IT IS ALSO ABOUT THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC FACTORS FOR PEOPLE TO BEGIN WITH.

HERE IN CHICAGO, THERE IS A 30-84 LIFE EXPECTANCY GAP WITHIN A FIVE-MILE DISTANCE FROM AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOOD COMPARED TO A DOWNTOWN PRIMARILY WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO AS WE CALL THEN, THAT IMPACT ON WHO LIVES, WHO DIES.

THERE'S THAT FACTOR.

THE THING WE HAVE TO CONTINUALLY REMIND OURSELVES, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE BUT THE GREATEST CONSEQUENCES ARE ECONOMIC.

STAY-AT-HOME SHUTDOWN THAT HAS ALSO SHUT DOWN OUR ECONOMY, THOSE WHO ARE ALSO MOST ECONOMICALLY IN VULNERABLE POSITIONS ARE ALSO SEEING THE WORST OF THIS IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES.

AND REMEMBER, THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ESSENTIAL WORKERS HAVING TO CONTINUE TO WORK, WE'RE OFTEN TALKING ABOUT BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE WHO ARE IN OUR GROCERY STORES, FACTORIES, WHO ARE PUTTING THEMSELVES AT RISK EVERY DAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO MAKE TOUGH CHOICES ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT I CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A JOB, TO PUT INFORMED ON MY FAMILY'S PLATES OR DO I STAY AT HOME.

AND IF I LIVE IN A MULTIGENERATIONAL HOME OR A SMALL APARTMENT WITH MULTIPLE MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY, HOW DO YOU SOCIAL DISTANCE?

AND THOSE FAMILY MEMBERS ARE ALSO GOING TO JOBS THAT PUT THEM AT RISK.

SO THIS IS JUST FACTOR UPON FACTOR THAT IS MAKING IN MANY WAYS, UNMASKING SOME OF THE SOCIAL INEQUITIES THAT EXISTED.

YOU KEEP MOVING OUR CONVERSATION TOWARD THE EQUALITY QUESTION.

ONE OF THE REASONS WE CALLED YOU, AFTER A VERY LONG CAREER IN THE PUBLIC HEALTH SPACE, IN THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPACE, YOU FOCUS INEQUALITY.

WHY IS THAT SO RELEVANT HERE?

AS A PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, YOU KNOW, MY GOALER AS PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, I GUESS, IS TO LONG AT HEALTH AND HEALTH EQUITY.

TO MAKE SURE ALL PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE A HEALTHY LIFE.

IF YOU PIERCE BELOW WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE PART OF THE MEDICAL AND PUBLIC HEALTH TOOL KIT, WE RECOGNIZE THAT SO MUCH OF THE DISPARITIES WE SEE IN HEALTH ARE NOT DETERMINED BY ACCESS TO HEALTH AND HEALTH SERVICES.

THAT PROBABLY AMOUNTS TO 20 TO 40%, THE REST IS MORE DETERMINED BY THINGS.

ACCESS TO A LIVING WANING INCOME.

PUBLIC SAFETY.

ACCESS TO NUTRITIOUS INFORMED.

ALL THESE THINGS HAVE A GRITTER IMPACT ON HEALTH OUTCOMES THAN WHAT WE CAN DO BY GETTING ACCESS TO CHARACTER.

YOU HAVE TO LONG AT THESE UNDERLYING ROT CAUSES, FOR ME IT WAS A NATURAL PROGRESS, FINDING WHAT I CAN DO IN THE SOCIETAL DROIRS OF POOR HEALTH.

I'VE BEEN WORKING HEALTH.

TRY TO KEEP POEM THERE GETTING SICK AND HELP SICK PEOPLE GET WELL.

WHAT I NEED TO BE DOING IS FOCUS ON THESE IMMENSE WEALTH GAPS.

I WORK FOR OVER 20 YEARS ON HIV AND AIDS.

BOTH IN THIS COUNTRY AS WELL AS GLOBALLY.

I THINK PARTICULARLY GLOBALLY, IT PLAYS OUT SO CLEARLY.

IT IS THE INEQUITY, THE LACK OF SOCIAL STATUS, THE LACK OF ABILITY TO CONTROL ONE'S LIFE.

IT REALLY DOES INFLUENCE WHO IS AT RISK AND WHO IS NOT AT RISK.

WE SAW THE SAME THING HERE AS HIV CONTINUED TO IMPACT COMMUNITIES OF COLOR MORE.

SO I THINK AS I CONTINUE TO WORK IN MY CAREER, I GRADUALLY MIGRATED TO WHERE I THOUGHT I COULD HAVE THE MOST IMPACT.

AS AN ORGANIZATION, MY ORGANIZATION, THE CHICAGO COMMUNITY TRUST, WHICH IS CHICAGO'S MAIN COMMUNITY FOUNDATION, WE'VE MADE IT OUR HIGHEST PRIORITY CLOSING THE GAP FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT I SAID IT IS SO POOR AND FUNDAMENTAL.

AND WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT AND THOUGHT ABOUT THREE WAYS IN WHICH WE CAN INVEST.

FIRST, WHAT DO WE DO TO INCREASE WE THINK AND ASSETS AT THE HOUSEHOLD LEVEL.

INCREASING JOBS, PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO OWN HOMES AND DEVELOP ASSETS THROUGH HOME OWNERSHIP.

BUILDING SMALL BUSINESSES.

WE KNOW THAT SMALL BUSINESSES ARE A HUGE DRIVER OF JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY.

A MAY KNOWER DRIVER.

HOW DO YOU REVERSE THE DEBT BURDEN THAT OFTEN SADDLES FAMILIES.

EVEN WITH GROWING INCOME AND ABILITY TO GET WE THINK.

WHAT CAN WE DO AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL?

IF YOU LOOK AT CHICAGO LIKE SO MANY OTHER CITIES, THERE IS GREAT DISPARITY IN TERMS OF THE INVESTMENT IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS.

WE WANT TO LOOK AT HOW CAN WE HELP DRIVE INVESTMENT IN THE HISTORICALLY UNDERINVESTED NEIGHBORHOODS SO ECONOMIC VITALITY CAN NOURISH.

WHEN YOU START HAVING BUSINESSES, DEVELOPMENT, STREETS ARE SAFER, PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE BACK INTO THESE NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO CAN WE MAKE THESE NEIGHBORHOODS HISTORICALLY UNDER INVESTED, VIBRANT BY, AND THEN AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL, HOW DO WE ENGAGE CITIZENS SO THEY CAN TAKE THE KIND OF ACTIONS AND BE AT THE TABLE SO WHEN DRIGSS MADE ABOUT THEIR LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEY'RE EMPOWERED AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY DRIVE THE CHANGE THAT HAPPENS IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS.

HOW DOES THIS ARGUMENT SELL?

TRADITIONALLY THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN VERY RELUCTANT TO PARTICIPATE IN INCOME LEVELING MECHANISMS.

RIGHT?

THERE'S A HUGE FIGHT OVER SOCIAL SECURITY.

EVENTUALLY WE ACCEPTED IT AS SOMETHING THAT GIVES DIGNITY TO THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE.

PARTICULARLY HAD SENIORS BUT ALSO KIDS WHO LOST A PARENT OR SOMEONE DISABLED.

WE ARE RELUCTANT TO SAY EVERYBODY DESERVES A BASIC FLOOR OF INCOME.

PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY'RE YOUNGER.

HOW ARE YOU PLAYINGING THIS ARGUMENT TO PEOPLE?

IF I WERE IN THIS SITUATION IN CHICAGO, TWO-THIRDS OF THE POPULATION ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

BUT TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE GROUPS HAVE LESS THAN TWO TO THREE MONTHS WORTH OF SAVINGS.

SO IF THEY'RE OUT OF WORK, FOR A MONTH OR TWO, THEY ARE PLUNGED INTO POVERTY.

WE CAN'T HAVE TWO-THIRDS OF OUR POPULATION TEETERING ON THE BRINK OF POVERTY AND EXPECT THAT OUR ECONOMY WILL MOVE FORWARD.

IT HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

IF YOU JUST RUN THE NUMBERS, THE ABILITY FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD AS AN ECONOMY WHEN TWO-THIRDS OF OUR POPULATION IS BEING HELD BACK DOESN'T BODE WELL.

WE HELP TO SUPPORT A REPORT THAT CAME OUT A FEW YEARS AGO THAT DEMONSTRATED THAT THE COST OF SEGREGATION IN CHICAGO WAS UPWARDS OF $4 BILLION.

AND IF WE WERE ABLE TO DECREASE THE SEGREGATION IN THE CITY, AND GIVE OPPORTUNITIES MORE EQUALLY, IT WOULD ADD AS MUCH AS $8 BILLION IN GDP TO THE CHICAGO ECONOMY.

SO THERE'S HARD EVIDENCE OF WHY IN FACT, EQUITY MATTERS, AND WHY TEARING DOWN SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC BARRIERS TO EQUITY IS COSTING US MORE.

IF WE LOOK AT IT AS A NATION.

WE ARE MOVING TO BE A MAJORITY-MINORITY SOCIETY, IT IS IN ALL OF OUR INTERESTS TO MAKE SURE THE ABILITY TO REALIZE THEIR ECONOMIC POTENTIAL SO WE CAN ALL MOVE FORWARD.

AND I THINK THAT SOME OF THE THINGS WE HAVE DONE AS A RESULT OF THIS PANDEMIC THROUGH SOME OF THE CONGRESSIONAL LEGISLATION HAS BE GIVEN US THE BLUEPRINT FOR SOME THINGS COULD DO IN THE FUTURE OF SO THE FACT THAT SMALL BUSINESSES ARE GETTING ACCESS TO LOANS THAT PERHAPS NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE KIND OF FLEXIBLE LENDING.

THERE IS PROTECTION FOR WORKERS.

THE FACT THAT WE'RE GIVING CASH TO PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES THROUGH THIS CRISIS.

LET'S LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

LET'S LONG AT WHAT IT TAKES TO HAVE BROAD BAND ACCESS TO EVERYBODY SO OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE NOT LOSING MONTHS AND MONTHS HAVE EDUCATION BECAUSE OF THE DIGITAL DIVIDE IN OUR COUNTRY.

I THINK THERE ARE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED IN THIS MOMENT COULD HELP US SHIFT PUBLIC POLICY LONGER MATERIAL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

MY PLEASURE.

KEEPING THE SPOTLIGHT ON AN IMPORTANT ISSUE, OF COURSE, AND FINALLY, AMONG THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHO HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF CORONAVIRUS A FEW LUMINARIES FROM THE MUSIC WORLD INCLUDING ALAN MERRILL, HE IT IS MARSALIS, AND THE SAX LEGEND MANU DIBANGO.

ANGELIQUE KIDJO HAD THE SOUTH AFRICAN HIT PATAER PATA.

LISTEN.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪

A JOYFUL WARNING OF SORTS, ANGELIQUE KIDJO IS A UNICEF AMBASSADOR AND ONE OF THE WORLD'S GREATEST VOCALISTS AND SHE IS JOINING ME FROM PARIS, I THINK.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

WHAT MADE YOU CHOOSE -- IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT SONG.

AND SHE WAS A LEGEND IN SOUTH AFRICA.

THE ORIGINAL NAME OF THE SONG IS TOUCH, TOUCH.

YOU CONVERTED IT SO YOU WERE TELL PEOPLE NOT TO TOUCH.

YES.

BECAUSE COVID-19 IS CHANGING THE WAY WE LIVE.

THE NOW NORM, THE NEW REALITY IS NOT TO TOUCH ONE ANOTHER TO BE ABE TO LONG TERM, TO CELEBRATE AS WE DO IN AFRICA, TO KEEP OUR HUMANITY INTACT.

HOW ARE YOU KEEPING YOUR RESILIENCE?

YOU LOST YOUR FRIEND, AS WE SAID, AND YOU ARE PROBABLY SHELTERING IN PLACE.

HOW ARE YOU KEEPING, AS A MUSICIAN, WHO CAN'T RAE DO HER JOB IN A USUAL WAY.

I'M KEEPING MIGHT HAVE IN MUSIC.

NEW MUSIC, AND DOING A LOT OF ENGAGING SOCIALLY WITH EVERYBODY AROUND THE WORLD, BEING IN CONTACT WITH MY CONTINENT.

I DID PATA PATA TO GET IT TO THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA THAT HAVE NO COMPUTER.

FOR THEM TO HEAR THE MESSAGE.

FOR THEM TO KNOW.

AND I'VE DONE A LOT WITH YO-YO MA.

VERY ENGAGING, WE'RE DOING AFRICAN CONCERTS ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

THIS IS THE MOMENT.

COVID-19 IS A REMINDER.

THERE IS A APPOINTMENT THAT SHE SAID NO, SOCIETY BUT ONLY INDIVIDUALS.

COVID-19 IS TEACHING US THAT WE ARE EACH ONE KEEPERS, OUR HEALTH BELONGS TO EACH OTHER.

SO JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY IN AFRICA.

AS YET WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS DISEASE ROLL IN A MAJOR WAY THROUGH AFRICA.

EVERYBODY IS HOPING IT DOESN'T OVERWHELM PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEMS EVEN MORE STRAPPED THAN OURS HERE WHO HAVE BEEN OVERWHELMED.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

IT IS PICKING UP ON THE PANDEMIC.

THEY ARE TRYING REASONING BY REEK.

THEY CANNOT DO LOCKDOWN.

THERE ARE WILL SOAP POOR PEOPLE THAT LIVE ON A DAY TO DAY MANNER.

THEY NEED TO FEED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY.

LOCKDOWN IF AFRICA IS NOT THE SLOGS.

SO WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT, IN EVERY COUNTRY, HOW TO KEEP THE DISTANCE.

WE DON'T LIVE IN APARTMENT.

WE LIVE IN A HOME AND SOMETIMES OUTSIDE.

SO THAT MIGHT BE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY IT HASN'T BEEN THAT DRAMATIC IN AFRICA.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE WHOLE HYGIENE AND SANITATION PART OF THIS?

PART OF THE SONG IN THIS MUSIC VIDEO IS ALSO NOT JUST ABOUT STAYING APART BUT WASHING HANDS, DON'T TOUCH.

HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT IN MOST PARTS?

WELL, ME IN PARTICULAR, WHAT I DID WITH MY CONDITION, THE VILLAGE WHERE MY GIRLS ARE, TO THE GIRLS ARE THE ONES GOING AROUND WITH THIS MESSAGE, PROVIDE CLEAN WATER FOR PEOPLE TO WASH THEIR HANDS.

THE CHIEF OF THE VILLAGE, EVEN TO TELL THEM, THE SOAP THAT WE MANUFACTURE AND SELL ARE AVAILABLE FOR YOU AND HEAR THE MESSAGE.

ABOUT YOUR FRIEND WHO DIED.

IN YOUR COMMUNITY, THERE HAVE BEEN ARTISTS, SINGERS, WHO HAVE SUCCUMBED TO THIS DISEASE.

TELL ME A LITTLE ABOUT HIM.

MANU, I DON'T HAVE WORDS TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HIM.

HE IS JUST ONE OF THE GREATEST THAT WE EVER HAD.

HIS GENEROSITY IS SOMETHING I WILL MISS.

ALSO, PROTECTION.

AS A WOMAN IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS, HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE FOR ME, ALWAYS EMPOWER ME TO DREAM BIG, DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO.

JUST DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO.

IF THAT'S THE THING THAT I'LL MISS A LOT, HIS CONSTANT SUPPORT.

IT DOESN'T MATTER FOR BOY OR GIRL.

FOR ME AS A WOMAN, STARTING IN THIS BUSINESS, MY FIRST ALBUM, I INVITED HIP TO COME AND PLAY.

HE SAID IF I CAN BE OF ANY HELP, EYE BE HERE.

ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S GREAT OF THE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

NOW WE'RE SAYING GOODBYE, SIGNING OFF.

WE WANT TO LEAVE WITH YOU SOME OF THE JOYFUL MUSIC.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

♪♪♪ ♪ IN THIS TIME CORONAVIRUS IS NO TOUCH TIME ♪ ♪ THE VIRUS CAN BE BEATEN BY US ♪ ♪ AND SOON THE COAST WILL BE CLEAR AGAIN ♪ ♪♪♪