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> HELLO, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & CO.'
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
REMEMBERING THE WAR DEAD AS THE CORONAVIRUS DEATH TOLL NEARS 100,000.
MORE THAN WERE KID IN ALL WARS SINCE VIETNAM.
THE BIOGRAPHER MICHAEL D'ANTONIO AND TRUMP 2020 ADVISER DAVID URBAN DEBATE THE PRESSES'S HANDLING OF THIS CRISIS.
> THEN WHAT IF HILLARY NEVER MARRIED BILL?
IMAGINING A DIFFERENT WORLD WHERE HILLARY RODHAM, NOT CLINTON, RUNS FOR PRESIDENT.
ALSO --
THE WEAKER WILL GET CLEARED OUT.
THE STRONG, THE TOP UNIVERSITY THERE'S COME BACK EVEN STRONGER.
THE PHONE CALL THAT COULD SAVE TOP UNIVERSITIES AND WIPE OUT THE REST.
THE AUTHOR AND PROFESSOR SCOTT GALLOWAY TALKS TO US.
> 'AMANPOUR & CO.' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY ROSALIND P. WALTER, BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ, SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND, THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY -- AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR WORKING FROM HOME IN LONDON.
BANK HOLIDAY HERE AND MEMORIAL DAY IN THE UNITED STATES.
IN BRITAIN, A GOVERNMENT ADVISER SAYS THAT PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON IS TRASHING SCIENTIFIC ADVICE AS HE DEFENDS HIS TOP POLITICAL AIDE.
THE STRATEGIST WHO ALLEGEDLY VIOLATED LOCKDOWN AT THE END OF MARCH WHILE HE WAS SHOWING SYMPTOMS OF CORONAVIRUS.
IN THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ONCE MORE COURTING CONTROVERSY, TAKING AND DEFENDING ANTI-MALARIAL DRUGS DESPITE A RECENT LARGE STUDY LINKING THEN TO INCREASED RATES OF DEATH AND HEART PROBLEMS IN CORONAVIRUS PATIENTS.
TRUMP IS REFUSING TO WEAR A MASK ON CAMERA OF THE INSTEAD, DECIDING THIS WEEKEND TO BE SEEN PLAYING GOLF AS THE UP IN OF U.S. CORONAVIRUS DEATHS NEARS 100,000.
THAT IS MORE AMERICANS THAN WERE KILLED IN THE WARS IN VIETNAM, THE PERSIAN GULF, IRAQ, AND AFGHANISTAN COMBINED.
WE THOUGHT WE WOULD DELVE INTO TRUMP THINK WITH SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LACK OR RESPECT HIS VISION, AND WITH SOMEONE WHO VERY MUCH DOES.
MICHAEL D'ANTONIO JOINS US FROM NEW YORK.
HE INTERVIEWED THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS 2015 BIOGRAPHY NEVER ENOUGH.
DONALD TRUMP AND THE PURSUIT OF SUCCESS.
AND FROM FT. MYERS IN FLORIDA, DAVID URBAN, A FRIEND OF THE PRESIDENT AND A MEMBER OF HIS 2020 ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
LET ME START BY ASKING TO YOU TRY TO SORT OF WEIGH IN ON ALL THE ISSUES THAT ARE SORT OF MOUNTING THROUGHOUT THIS CRISIS.
AT LEAST SOME OF THEM.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND AND OVER THE WEEKEND AS WE KNOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP DECIDED TO GO PLAY GOLF AT HIS OWN GOLF CLUB IN VIRGINIA.
LET ME QUOTE WHAT 'THE NEW YORK TIMES' DESCRIBED AS THE CATASTROPHE OF THESE DEATHS.
IN TERMS OF U.S. DEATHS, IT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF 22 IRAQ WARS, 33 SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS, 41 AFGHANISTAN WARS, 42 PEARL HARBORS OR 25,000 BENGHAZIS.
YOU ARE AN ADVISER AND A FRIEND OF THE PRESIDENT.
WILL WHAT DO YOU THINK GOES THROUGH HIS MIND WHEN HE GOES TO PLAY GOLF IN THIS KIND OF SITUATION ON THIS MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND?
I THINK THE PRESIDENT IS DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN.
I THINK HE'S DONE EVERYTHING HE CAN.
I THINK THAT HE IS IN TOUCH WITH HIS ADVISERS AND CABINET AND YOU KNOW WHEN THE PRESIDENT GOES ANYWHERE, HE TAKES AN ENTIRE TEAM WITH HIM.
SO JUST BECAUSE HE'S HITTING A GOLF BALL AROUND DOESN'T MEAN HE'S NOT WORKING OR AT WORK.
IT IS ALWAYS AMAZING THAT SOMEHOW WHEN THE PRESIDENT GOES SOMEPLACE, THAT HE'S NOT IN CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION WITH FOLKS.
SO I THINK AS AMERICA BEGINS TO REOPEN AND PEOPLE ARE GOING OUT ON WALKS AROUND PARKS AND PEOPLE ARE GOLFING AND LOTS OF PLACES, GOLFING IN FLORIDA AND LOTS OF PLACES, THESE DEATHS ARE TRAGIC.
THEY ARE TRAGIC.
EVERY DEATH IS HORRIBLE.
OBVIOUSLY, TO QUOTE JOHN DUNN, EVERY MAN'S DEATH DIMINISHES ME AS A PART OF MANKIND.
NOT TO BE LOST IN THE MONTHS OF MARCH AND APRIL, YOU HAD ROUGHLY 115,000 PEOPLE WILL DIE OF CORONARY ARTERY DISEASE, 100,000 PEOPLE DIED OF CANCER, 25,000 PEOPLE DIED OF STROKE, 25,000 PEOPLE DIED OF ALZHEIMER'S AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
PEOPLE DIE IN AMERICA EVERY DAY.
AND JUST TO EXPECT THE PRESIDENT TO SIT FROZEN IN HIS OFFICE IS UNREALISTIC.
OKAY.
SO THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FROZEN IN HIS OFFICE AND PLAYING GOLF ON MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND, WHILE ALSO TWEETING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES, RETWEETING POSTS ON TASTY ABE RAPS, RIDICULING HER WEIGHT, CALLING NANCY PELOSI THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE A DRUNK, AND CALLING HILLARY CLINTON, HIS FORMER RIVAL, A SKANK.
THEN INCORRECTLY TWEETING DEATHS ARE GOING DOWN ACROSS AMERICA WHERE WE KNOW THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
IN SOME PLACES THEY'RE GOING DOWN AND IN SOME PLACES THEY'RE GOING UP.
WHY WOULD THE PRESIDENT BE DOING THAT STUFF?
WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE YOU ON.
SO CHRISTIANE, I ALWAYS SPEAK OUT AGAINST THOSE TYPES OF TWEETS.
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE USEFUL.
I THINK THEY DIVIDE VOTERS, NOT UNITE VOTERS.
I THINK THEY MAYBE APPEALED TO A CERTAIN DEM GRAPHIC.
I WOULD RATHER THE PRESIDENT TWEET OUT THE VERY POSITIVE THINGS THE ADMINISTRATION ACCOMPLISHED.
FOCUS ON THE GOOD THINGS HAPPENING IN AMERICA TODAY.
THERE ARE LOTS OF DEATHS, TRAGIC.
AMERICA HAS ITS BEST AND BRIGHTEST SCIENTISTS AND RESEARCHERS, FARM SUIT CAL COPIES, PRIVATE SECTOR TRYING TO WILL COULD THAT BAT THIS.
I WOULD RATHER HE FOCUS ON THE POSITIVES HE'S ACCOMPLISHED RATHER THAN THE NEGATIVE.
ALL RIGHT.
LET ME TO GO MICHAEL D'ANTONIO.
YOU SPOKE TO HIM OVER MANY MONTHS WHILE DID YOU THE BIOGRAPHY.
HE IT'S DOESN'T WEAR A MASK OF THE WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A VISUAL THING.
AN OPTICS THING.
HE THINKS IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM LOOK STRONG OF THE IT MAKES HIM LOOK WEAK.
YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE POINTS I MADE TO DAVID AND THE MASK THING OF THE WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING THROUGH HIS HEAD?
WHAT DRIVES HIP?
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S OBVIOUS, THE PRESIDENT SAID TO ME MANY TIMES, WAS THAT HE LIKES TO THINK INTO THE FUTURE.
THAT HE IS FORWARD FACING AND REALLY DOESN'T DWELL ON THE PAST.
AND I THINK SOMETIMES HE EVEN HAS TROUBLE STAYING ROOTED IN THE PRESENT.
HE'S ANTICIPATING WHAT HE MIGHT DO NEXT.
WHO MIGHT CRITICIZE HIM AND WHO MIGHT APPEAR ON THE HORIZON AS AN ENEMY.
SO HE HAS THIS VERY UNIQUE, I THINK, WAY OF DOING POLITICS.
IT IS ABOUT ATTACKING ALL THE TIME AND FINDING PEOPLE TO TURN INTO ENEMIES AND FINDING WAYS TO ENGAGE THEN.
DAVID I THINK SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY GREAT CONVENTIONAL POLITICIAN WHO MIGHT BE ELECTED PRESIDENT IN ANOTHER CIRCUMSTANCE OF THE OUR PRESIDENT TODAY HAS INTRODUCED THIS NEW WAY.
AND HE NARROWLY WON LAST TYPE.
THE NUMBER VOTES THAT PUT HIM OVER THE TOP IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE COULD BE MADE INTO A LARGE COLLEGE FOOTBALL STADIUM HERE.
SO HE'S AWARE THAT HE'S GOT THIS NARROW PATH OF THE HE WANTS TO ENERGIZE HIS BASE AND HE ALSO UNDERSTANDS SYMBOLS AND THAT GETS AROUND TO THE ISSUE OF THE MASKS.
THERE WAS A GREAT SURVEY DONE OF TENS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN MEN ABOUT THE WHOLE IDEA OF PUTTING ON A MASK.
A GREAT MANY OF THEM THOUGHT IT MADE THEN LOOK WEAK AND I THINK THE PRESIDENT IS ALLERGIC TO ANYTHING THAT COULD SUGGEST THAT HE'S NOT STRONG AND VIRILE AND BRAVE.
AND THERE MIGHT BE AN ELEMENT OF BEING CONCERNED ABOUT HOW IT LOOKS, BUT ALSO ABOUT WHAT IT SAYS.
AND HIS DEFINITION OF STRENGTH IS LIMITED TO THE KIND OF BRAVERY THAT SAYS, I'M NOT GOING TO WEAR A MASK AND I'LL TAKE THE RISK.
AND I WANT TO ALSO -- LET'S JUST PUT ASIDE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN CASES OF COUNTRIES WHERE THEY USED THE MASKS, INFECTION GOES DOWN.
IT'S A FACT.
WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO SAY, DAVID?
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACTUALLY, YOU CAN SHOW ME THE RESEARCH.
I THINK THE W.H.O. TO MY UNDERSTANDING, THE W.H.O. DOES NOT RECOMMEND WEARING THE MASK.
MANY COUNTRIES IN EUROPE ARE NOT WEARING MASKS.
I DON'T KNOW HAD A THE REQUIREMENTS IN ENGLAND.
IN IRD THEY'RE NOT WEARING MASKS.
LOTS OF COUNTRIES NOT WEARING MASKS.
WHERE THEY STOPPED IN THE EAST, THEY WEAR THE MASKS IN ASIA AND THERE IS A --
THE CDC GUIDELINES --
KEEPING INFECTIONS DOWN.
THE CDC GUIDELINES FOR WEARING MASKS SAY YOU SHOULD WEAR A MASK IF YOU CANNOT SOCIAL DISTANCE.
IF YOU ARE IN A CROWDED PLACE OF THE.
EXACTLY.
THAT'S THE GUIDANCE.
SO THE PRESIDENT IS FAR APART FROM PEOPLE.
HE'S NOT IN AN AIRPLANE OR THE TUBE COMMUTING BACK AND FORTH.
IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, PERHAPS A MASK MAY BE WORTH WHILE.
BUT IN LARGER CIRCUMSTANCES, I THINK THAT PERHAPS A MASK MAY HAVE LIPTD UTILITY OF THE DR.
FAUCI, THERE'S TAPE FROM DR.
FAUCI SAYING DON'T WEAR A MASK, WEAR A MASK OF THE THE WEARING OF A MASK IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL AS YOU KNOW, GLOBALLY, NOT JUST HERE IN AMERICA OF THE.
NO, NO.
IT ISN'T, EYE SORRY.
IT JUST ISN'T.
CAN I -- WE'VE NOW POLITICIZED MASKS.
LET'S MOVE ON.
I'M NOT POLITICIZING MASKS.
BELIEVE ME.
WHAT WERE YOU SAYING?
THIS IS THE SAME PROCESS THAT WAS USED TO SUGGEST THAT TOBACCO DOESN'T KILL OR THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT REAL.
TO SUGGEST THAT THERE IS A CONTROVERSY ABOUT MASKS IS SILLY.
IN TAIWAN, THEY INSTITUTED A MASK SHUTDOWN.
THEY HAD EIGHT DEATHS FROM CORONAVIRUS.
THAT WOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT OF FEWER THAN 100 DEATHS IN AMERICA.
MASKS WORKED.
THEY PROTECT YOU, THEY PROTECT ME.
THEY'RE USED AND RECOMMENDED WORD WIDE.
THE W.H.O. DOES RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE WEAR MASKS IN ALMOST EVERY SETTING.
AND THERE IS NO WORSE PLACE THAN THE WHITE HOUSE TO CONTRACT A VIRUS.
THAT'S A VERY ENCLOSED, CRAMPED --
AS WE'VE SEEN OF THE.
YES OF THE.
AS WE'VE SEEN.
SO BEFORE I MOVE ON -- YEAH.
HOLD ON A SECOND.
IT'S CLEAR -- ANYWAY, LET ME CARRY ON ABOUT THIS.
SOMETHING WAS SAID BY ANOTHER BIOGRAPHER.
I WANT YOU TO WEIGH IN ON THIS.
IT WAS QUITE SHOCKING.
TONY SCHWARTZ WHO CO-WROTE THE ART OF THE DEAL, OR RATHER, GHOST WROTE THE ART OF THE DEAL, HE TALKED ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S LACK OF EMPATHY.
I WANT YOU TO WEIGH IN ON WHETHER THIS WAS OVER THE TOP OR DO YOU AGREE OR NOT?
HE HAS NO CONSCIENCE.
LET'S BE CLEAR.
NO CONSCIENCE.
THIS IS REALLY HARD FOR US TO UNDERSTAND.
HE DOESN'T MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN RIGHT OR WRONG, NOR DOES HE FEE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN RIGHT OR WRONG.
HE DOESN'T CARE.
THE DEATHS, I KNOW THIS IS EXTREME.
THE DEATHS DON'T MATTER TO HIM.
IF IT IS A DECISION BETWEEN SAVING HIMSELF AND SAVING OTHERS, IT IS NO CONTEST.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THAT?
BECAUSE IT IS EXTREME BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE HAD A BELIEVE THERE IS A LACK OF EMPATHY.
I THINK IT IS RIDICULOUS.
IT ISN'T EVEN WORTH MY COMMENTARY.
I CAN TELL THAT YOU I'VE SPOKEN WITH THE PRESIDENT DURING THIS CRISIS ON WILL THAT A WEEKLY BASIS.
DURING PERIODS WHEN THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IN NEW YORK WERE RISING AND SPIKING AND THE PRESIDENT WAS VERY CONCERNED, VERY EMPATHETIC OF THE I COULD HEAR IT IN HIS VOICE.
THE TONE WAS MARKEDLY DIFFERENT.
IT IS JUST FLAT OUT POPPYCOCK.
MICHAEL, WHY DO YOU THINK TONY WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
WITH, I THINK THE PRESIDENT, IF WE WERE TO GIVE THEM BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, IF HE FEES EMPATHY, A SENSE OF GRIEF OR MOURNING FOR THESE AMERICANS, HE HAS A LOT OF TROUBLE SHOWING IT.
HIS REPERTOIRE IS GENERALLY ENTHUSIASTIC.
HE LIKES TO MOCK PEOPLE.
HE LIKES TO FIGHT.
HE ONCED ME THAT HE LIKES FIGHTING, ALL KINDS OF FIGHTING INCLUDING PHYSICAL FIGHTING.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE HE GETS HIS ENERGY AND HIS IDENTITY.
THIS ROLE OF BEING THE CONSOLER IN CHIEF IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIP.
AND I THINK HE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE COACHED.
IF SOMEONE WOULD SAY NOW IS THE TIME TO SAY SOMETHING HEARTFELT, HE WOULD TRY BUT IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR HIM.
SO I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHERE TONY IS COMING FROM.
IT IS HARD TO SEE.
AND I'VE NEVER MET A MORE BRILLIANT, AGGRESSIVE COULD THAT PET OR THE THAN DONALD TRUMP.
HE IS FAST FORWARD ALL THE TIME.
AND A PERSON LIKE THAT CAN SKIP OVER CERTAIN EMOTIONAL NOTES THAT THE REST US WOULD SOUND.
I THINK SEEING HIM PERHAPS HAVE A NATIONAL MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR THE DEAD IN THIS CASE.
EVEN IF IT IS HEAD AT A DISTANCE.
EVEN IF EVERYBODY IS WEARING A MASK.
IT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE COUNTRY THAT HE GETS IT.
DAVID IS HIS ADVISER.
I'M NOT.
IT IS THE KIND OF THING I WOULD ENCOURAGE HIP TO DO.
I THINK THAT OBVIOUSLY, WE MOURN THE FOLKS WHO PASS EVERY DAY.
THEIR FAMILIES, THEY CAN'T BE REPLACED.
IT IS A TRAGEDY LIKE THIS COUNTRY AND THE GLOBE HAS NEVER SEEN.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING TO HEAL THE COUNTRY AT SOME POINT.
WHEN IS THAT POINT?
I'M NOT SURE WHEN WE'RE THROUGH THIS AND WHAT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO DO THAT.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE COUNTRY TO COME TOGETHER, A TIME TO HEAL.
I'M NOT SURE WE'RE THERE YET.
I THINK HE COULD HAVE DONE IT THIS WEEKEND.
HE COULD HAVE GONE TO CHURCH.
HE'S OPENING THE CHURCHES BUT IT COPS ACROSS AS A POLITICAL THING.
AS SYMBOL OF DEFIANCE THAT IDENTIFIES WITH THE PRESIDENT.
IF HE SAID LET'S ALL COME TOGETHER FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.
PERHAPS ONLINE OR ON TELEVISION.
I'LL BE WITH A CLERGYMAN OR A GROUP OF CLERGY PEOPLE OF MY CHOICE AND WE'LL PRAY FOR AMERICA.
I THINK THAT WOULD DEMONSTRATE FAITH IN ACTION AND A LEVEL OF COULD THAT PASSION THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FEAR THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T POSSESS.
ON DAVID, KIND OF AN IMPORTANT POINT THERE.
THE PRESIDENT CAME OUT AND SAID THAT HE WAS IN CHARGE OF OPENING ALL THE PLACES OF WORSHIP, WHATEVER THE GOVERNOR SAYS.
IT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, WHY WOULDN'T HE GO TO CHURCH IF HE JUST ORDERED THEM ALL OPENED?
HE DIDN'T ORDER THEM OPEN.
AS YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT, AS YOU'VE SEEN --
HE DID.
HE SAID -- TEND GOVERNORS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO OVERRULE HIM.
HE ENCOURAGED CHURCHES TO OPEN.
MICHAEL HAS BEEN AT THIS, HE'S A SMART GUY, HE KNOWS THIS.
IF THE PRESIDENT HAD FAITH LEADERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, OR WENT TO CHURCH AND PRAYED, HE WOULD BE DERIDED FOR DOING SO.
IT IS A PHOTO OP.
THEY DON'T BELIEVE IT.
THE DETRACTORS WILL NEVER CEASE.
SO I LIKE THE IDEA, I BELIEVE AT SOME POINT IT IS NOT JUST FOR THIS PRESIDENT, BUT FOR OUR COUNTRY THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
I'M SURE THEY WOULDN'T BE.
I NEED TO MOVE TO ANOTHER ISSUE.
DAVID, EVERYBODY IS LOOKING TOWARD THE ELECTION AS WELL.
THERE ARE OTHER THINGS HAPPENING IN THE WORD.
A VERY IMPORTANT ELECTION AND YOU'RE ON THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
AND I WANT TO READ A TWEET.
THERE IS A HUGE CONTROVERSY ABOUT HOW AMERICANS CAN VOTE.
WHAT IS THE THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS WEEKEND SUNDAY.
THE UNITED STATES CANNOT HAVE AN ALL MAIL-IN BALLOT.
IT WOULD BE THE GREATEST RIGGED ELECTION IN HISTORY.
PEOPLE GRAB THEM MAILBOXES, PRINT THOUSANDS HAVE FORNGORIES AND FORCE PEOPLE TO SIGN AND FORGE NAMES.
TRYING TO USE COVID FOR THIS, SCAM.
SO YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THIS BECAUSE STUDY AFTER STUDY JUST SAYS THERE ISN'T THAT KIND OF FRAUD.
THE CENTER FOR JUSTICE SAID, THE RISK IS 0.0004% LESS OF FRAUD.
SO WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
WHAT IMMEDIATELY DO THE WHAMMY AGAINST MAIL-IN?
THAT MAY BE WHAT'S REQUIRED IN THIS PANDEMIC SITUATION.
WELL, I DO, I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE.
WE CAN CITE A STUDY, I CAN CITE A STUDY WHERE THERE ARE VOTER HARVESTING, AND JUST THE WEEK BEFORE, AN ELECTION JUDGE WAS FOUND IT GOODY OF BALLOT STUFFING.
THE THINGS THAT ATTACK THE LEGITIMACY OF ELECTIONS NO, MATTER HOW SMALL.
IT IS.001 OR WHATEVER YOU'RE SAYING.
THE BRANDON CENTER ALLUDED TO ARE JUST BAD.
WE HAVE TO SEE WHETHER WE WILL NEED VOTE BY MAIL IN NOVEMBER.
NOVEMBER IS A LONG WAY AWAY OF THE SO I WOULD SAY, DO THE EXHALE HERE.
WE CAN STILL HAVE AN ELECTION, STILL CAMPAIGN AS WE DID IN YEARS BEFORE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY WE NEED TO VOTE BY MAIL AS OPPOSED TO THE PAST 200 YEARS IN THIS COUNTRY.
BECAUSE OF THIS ISSUE HERE.
BECAUSE OF THIS POTENTIAL PANDEMIC.
IT IS NOT 0.01.
IT IS 0.0004.
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP'S OWN COMMISSION ON ELECTION INTEGRITY SPENT EIGHT MONTHS FROM 2017 TO 2018 PROBING VOTER FRAUD CLAIMS IN THE 2016 ELECTION AND COULDN'T CONFIRM A SINGLE CASE.
SO YOU SAID, THE STUDY SAID -- YOU SAID THE STUDY SAID TO 9%?
0 -- NO, NO, NOT 9%. 0.0009 OF IT WAS 0004 TO 0009.
SO VERY -- HIS OWN COMMISSION FAILED.
THE POINT HERE IS, ARE WE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ELECTION TAKING PLACE?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
NO.
I'M NOT TERRIBLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ELECTION TAKING PLACE.
I THINK WE'LL HAVE AN ELECTION.
I THINK IT IS NOTE WORTHY THAT FOUR OF THE STATES THAT VERY MUCH WENT FOR TRUMP IN 2016, NEBRASKA, IOWA, GEORGIA AND WEST VIRGINIA, THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS AND GOVERNORS ALL WANT ALL MAIL-IN BALLOTS THIS COMING YEAR.
THEY'VE PUT IN A REQUEST FOR MAIL-IN BALLOTS FOR EVERY VOTER IN THE STATE.
THERE IS NOT A LOT OF CONTROVERSY AROUND THE IDEA OF FRAUD IN MAIL-IN BALLOTS.
SEVERAL STATES HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR DECADES.
WHAT I THINK PEOPLE ARE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT THERE WILL BE A SECOND SPIKE, MAYBE A THIRD SPIKE IN COVID-19.
AND THEY'LL HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN RISKING THEIR LIVES AND VOTING.
AND IF WE MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE CHOICE, THIS IS AN EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCE.
AGAIN, THE PRESIDENT COULD DEMONSTRATE HIS CONFIDENCE IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HIS CONFIDENCE IN HIS OWN CAMPAIGN AND SAY, WELL, I KNOW THAT I CAN WIN THIS ELECTION AND SAY THERE IS THAT 000.49% VOTER FRAUD.
I CAN OVERCOME THAT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE LOVE ME.
AND CAN IT SUGGESTS THE PEOPLE LOVE HIM AND HE'LL WIN GOING AWAY.
ARE YOU CONCERNED -- CAN YOU ASSURE US THAT IT WON'T BE POSTPONED OR CANCELED?
THE ELECTION?
THERE ARE FEARS, AS YOU CAN MANNING.
THE ELECTION WILL GO DOWN.
IT WON'T BE POSTPONED.
NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.
IT IS A FALSE CHOICE.
EITHER DIE OR VOTE.
PEOPLE ARE GOING OUT IN AMERICA, EVEN AT THE VERY, VERY PEAK, THE WORST TYPES, PEOPLE WERE GOING TO THE GROCERY STORE, THE CONVENIENCE STORE.
IF VOTING IS THAT IMPORTANT, THEY CAN GO VOTE.
THEY WERE HEADING OUT OF THEIR HOMES IN RECORD NUMBERS EVEN DURING THE PEAK OF THE PANDEMIC OF SO VOTING OR DYING --
VERY QUICKLY, EVEN IF THEY CAN'T DO IT IN PERSON WHERE SOME PLACES THEY BE ABLE TO, SOME PLACES THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO, THAT WILL HAPPEN.
ABSOLUTELY.
THE ELECTION WILL GO THROUGH.
OKAY.
LIKE MICHAEL SAID, IT WILL BE VERY CLOSE.
A VERY CLOSE ELECTION AGAIN.
IT WILL HAPPEN THOUGH OF THE OKAY.
DAVID URBAN, ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.
MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, AUTHOR OF THE BIOGRAPHY OF DONALD TRUMP.
OF COURSE HIS NEXT BOOK IS CALLED THE HUNTING OF HILLARY AND BITS TRUMP'S 2016 RIVAL, HILLARY CLINTON OF MY NEXT GUEST HAS BEATEN HIM TO THE QUOUNLT A HILLARY THAT NEVER WAS IN HER NEW NOVEL OF THE AUTHOR CURTIS SITTENFELD TAKES A VERY DIFFERENT TURN IN THE ROAD.
ONE WHERE HILLARY DUMPS BILL, INSTEAD PURSUES HER CAREER, AND VIEWY RUNS FOR PRESIDENT.
AND SHE JOINS US NOW WITH SOME ANSWERS FROM MINNEAPOLIS.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
THE BOOK IS CALLED RODHAM.
I WANT TO ASK BUT THE COVER PICTURE.
FIRST, I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHAT MADE YOU TAKE THAT FORK IN THE ROAD?
WHAT MADE YOU IMAGINE AN ALTERNATIVE SET OF FAKTSS FOR HILLARY CLINTON'S LIFE?
WELL, I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE A FEW REASONS.
ONE REASON, I DEFINITELY AM A DEMOCRAT AND I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED AFTER THE 2016 ELECTION.
I THINK SOME OF IT WAS WANTING TO CREATE AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.
BUT ALSO I HAD THE REALIZATION THAT IN 2016, SCHOOL CHILDREN WHO KNEW THAT HILLARY WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN SOME CASES LITERALLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT BILL CLINTON EXISTED, OR THAT HE HAD BEEN PRESIDENT.
SO I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING THOUGHT EXPERIMENT TO IMAGINE IF AMERICAN VOTERS WHO WERE ADULTS HADN'T SEEN THEN AS INTERCONNECTED.
FOR ALL THE TIME SHE'S BEEN A KNOWN NAME AND A KNOWN QUANTITY, IT IS ALL ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF HER.
AND THIS IS WHAT SHE THINKS OF PEOPLE AND THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY, THAN A WAY WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE.
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY ABOUT HOW SHE VIEWS THE WORLD?
WHAT IS HER LENS THAT YOU GIVE HER?
IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE KNOW HOW SHE'S BEEN PORTRAYED?
WELL, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO SAY, IT IS DEFINITELY A NOVEL.
UNLIKE YOU, I HAVE NEVER MET HILLARY CLINTON.
SO IT'S NOT AS IF I HAVE.
I LIKE TO THINK I HAVE SPECIAL CREATIVITY OR IMAGINATION BUT I DO NOT HAVE SPECIAL ACCESS INTO HILLARY CLINTON'S BRAIN.
BUT I DO THINK, SHE'S BEEN SO SCRUTINIZED FOR 30 YEARS.
WE ALWAYS THINK IN TERMS OF WHAT DOES SHE REPRESENT OR SYMBOLIZE?
I THINK THAT UNDERESTIMATES HER AS A PERSON.
TO THINK ABOUT, AS YOU'RE SAYING.
NOT WHAT DO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THINK OF HILLARY BUT WHAT DOES HILLARY THINK OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?
SO GIVE AS YOU LITTLE NUDGE.
WHAT DOES SHE THINK OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?
GIVE AS YOU SHORT SYNOPSIS.
I DID DO A LOT OF RESEARCH EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOT MET HER.
I THINK OF HILLARY AS A VERY WARM PERSON.
A VERY, LIKE SHE HAS THESE CLOSE, LOYAL FRIENDSHIPS THAT HAVE LASTED DECADES.
I THINK SHE HAS THIS VERY ENDEARING LAUGH.
SO TO ME, I THINK THAT SHE'S, SO MANY OF THE SORT OF PUBLIC STEREO TYPES OF HER SEEM TO ME THEY HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP TO REALITY.
THAT IT IS SORT OF LIKE AMERICA WORKING OUT ITS DEALINGS AND PRONGING THEM TO TO THIS ONE INDIVIDUAL.
SO CURTIS, EVERYBODY IS FOCUSED ON THE AMOUNT OF SEX AND LUST AND FLIRTACIOUS NOVEL STUFF THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN THERE.
AND YOU TAKE A STORY, WHICH IS REAL, FROM COLLEGE TO LAW SCHOOL TO MEETING BILL CLINTON, TO HAVING THE ROMANCE, ALL OF THAT IS ADOPTED FACT.
BUT YOU ALSO, A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE QUITE SURPRISED BY SOME OF THE MORE INTIMATE PASSAGES THAT YOU DESCRIBE, WHICH YOU'VE MADE UP, OBVIOUSLY.
BUT THEN THERE IS A PART THAT DESCRIBES HILL WHEN THE TWO OF THEN WERE AT A DNC SPONSORED YOUTH CONFERENCE.
SHE GAVE A SPEECH ANDER IN THE NIGHT, SHE HAD CAUGHT SIGHT OF BILL FLIRTING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.
HERE'S FROM YOUR BOOK IN HER WORDS.
I COULD HARDLY CONCENTRATE.
EVEN THOUGH I'D GIVEN THE DNC ORGANIZERS WHAT THEY ASKED FOR THAT NIGHT IFRGS PREOCCUPIED.
IT LEFT ME EXHAUSTED AND ASHAMED.
I FELT PATHETIC OF THE IT WAS CLEAR THAT I COULDN'T LIVE LIKE THE AND CERTAINLY BE FOR DECADES.
I HAD TO EITHER BREAK UP WITH BILL OR TRUST HIM.
DESCRIBE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH ALL OF THIS.
AND ALSO, BECAUSE YOU SAID, WHEN YOU READ BILL CLINTON'S BIOGRAPHY, WHEN YOU WERE WRITING A LOT OF THIS, YOU SORT OF FELL FOR HIM, TOO.
YOU GET IT.
I HAVE TO SAY I THINK MY BOOK SOUNDS LOVELY IN YOUR VOICE.
THE PREMISE OF THE BOOK IS WHAT IF HILLARY HADN'T MARRIED BILL?
THE REASON SEEMED PLAUSIBLE TO ME, KNOWING THAT SHE SAID NO THE FIRST TWO TIMES THAT HE PROPOSED AND SHE SAID YES ONLY THE THIRD TIME.
SO MY VERSION IS NOT THAT SHE NEVER MET HIM OR NEVER FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM, AND NOT EVEN THAT HE DIDN'T PROPOSE TWICE OF THE IT WAS THE THIRD TIME SHE SAID NO INSTEAD OF YES.
SO I FELT LIKE IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME AS A WRITER TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND HIS CHARMS AND TO PORTRAY THAT TO THE READER.
IF YOU SEE A ROMANTIC COMEDY AND YOU NEVER BUY INTO THE COUPLE'S AFFECTION OR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER IN THE BEGINNING, YOU DON'T CARE IF THEY GET TOGETHER OR WHAT CHALLENGES THEY FACE.
THERE ARE SUCH THINGS IN THE BOOK.
I FEEL LIKE BITS TWO PEOPLE FAUG IN LOVE, WONDERING IF THEY SHOULD GET MARRIED AND I THINK THAT'S REALISTIC.
IF YOU'RE FAUG IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER PERSON, IF YOU KNOW YOU'VE KISSED OR NOT, OR IF YOU'VE SAID I LOVE YOU OR NOT OF THE SO TO ME IT SEEMED LIKE NATURAL PART OF STORY OF THE.
SO EVERYBODY WHO KNOWS THEM SAYS THERE IS THAT VERY DEEP CONNECTION DESPITE EVERYTHING, THE DEEP, PHYSICAL, AND INTELLECTUAL CONNECTION.
IN THE BOOK, HILLARY TAKES A DIFFERENT DIRECTION AND DOES NOT MARRY BILL CLINTON.
THE MARGIN WAS SO THIN.
IT COULD HAVE GONE EITHER WAY.
THEN YOU HAVE BILL SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T MARRY ME.
SHOULD YOU LEAVE.
I'LL DRAG YOU DOWN.
THAT'S COMPLICATED.
WHAT MADE YOU GET INTO THEIR HEADS AND, I MEAN, DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT, SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED?
WHAT MADE YOU, WHAT GAVE YOU THE LICENSE TO SAY THAT STUFF?
I THINK TO BE A NOVELIST IS TO SORT OF, I DON'T KNOW, TO SOME EXTENT, BE PRUMTUOUS ABOUT HUMAN NATURE, TO TAKE CERTAIN STORIES AND RUN WITH THEM.
I NEVER PRETEND THAT I KNOW HILLARY CLINTON.
I DID A LOT OF RESEARCH BUT IT WAS ALL WITH PUBLICLY AVAILABLE BOOKS.
I WOULD NEVER PRETEND THAT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF WHAT DID HAPPEN.
IN FACT, IT IS ALTERNATE HISTORY.
YOU COULDN'T READ THE WHOLE BOOK AND THINK THAT IT LITERALLY HAPPENED.
I FEEL LIKE FICTION IS A WAY OF KINDS OF, I DON'T KNOW, IMAGINING SOMEONE'S LIFE IN A PERSONAL, GRANULAR WAY THAT ALMOST, YOU CAN'T ACCESS IN A NONFICTION PROFILE.
I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE NEWS MEDIA.
THAT'S A LARGE CATEGORY BUT FOR MANY ELEMENTS.
NOT TO DIMINISH WHAT DO YOU KNOW BUT I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN WAYS THAT GET AT OUR PRIVATE EXPERIENCES.
THAT'S SORT OF THE POINT OF , OF NOVELS OF THE.
DO YOU KNOW IF SHE'S READ IT?
IF BILL HAS READ IT?
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NEITHER OF THEM HAS READ IT OF THE I WOULD EXPECT THAT THEY WON'T.
OBVIOUSLY, THEY CAN IF THEY WANT TO AND I WOULD WELCOME HER FEEDBACK.
EVEN IF WHAT SHE SAID WAS LIKE, THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
BUT I MEAN, YEAH.
I THINK THAT, I SORT OF THINK OF IT IN THE CONTEXT, THERE ARE NUT CRACKERS MADE OUT OF HILLARY'S LIKENESS OF THE ALL SORTS OF T-SHIRTS OVERTLY MOCKING HER.
I FEEL LIKE WHAT I DID, I DO UNDERSTAND.
IT'S NOT AS IF I UNDERSTAND WHY SOME PEOPLE FEEL QUEASY ABOUT THIS.
BUT I FEE LIKE TO SINCERELY MANNING WHAT THE WORD LOOKS LIKE FROM SOMEONE ELSE'S POINT OF VIEW IS ESSENTIAL.
I WOULD NEVER WRITE A NOVEL FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF SOMEONE I DIDN'T ADD MEYER OR RESPECT.
LET'S GET TO REALITY.
IN 1992 WHEN BILL WAS RUN GO FOR PRESIDENT, THERE WERE ALL THESE ALLEGATIONS.
IT IS PART OF HISTORY.
AND THEY DID ACTUALLY A REAL INTERVIEW WITH 60 MINUTES AND IT WAS CONSIDERED, HER PERFORMANCE THERE WAS CONSIDERED A MAJOR, MAY KNOW PLUS.
THERE ISN'T A PERSON WATCHING THIS WHO WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE SITTING ON THIS COUCH DETAILING EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON IN THEIR LIFE AND THEIR MARRIAGE.
AND I THINK I THINK REAL DANGEROUS IN THIS COUNTRY IF WE DON'T HAVE SOME ZONE OF PRIVACY FOR EVERYBODY.
I'M NOT SITTING HERE SOME LITTLE WOMAN STANDING BY MY MAN, TAMMY WYNETTE.
I HONOR WHAT HE'S BEEN THROUGH AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH TOGETHER.
IF THAT'S NOT ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE, THEN HECK, DON'T VOTE FOR WILL HIP.
I FIND THAT REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING IN CONTRAST OF WHAT ONE OF THE REVIEWS SAID.
I WANT TO READ IT TO YOU.
THIS IS FROM SLATE.
YOU TALK ABOUT HOW PEOPLE KNOW, IT SAYS HOW COULD AN ABJECT SLAVE TO LOVE BECOME A HIGHLY PAID CORPORATE LAWYER WHO REFUSED TO BAKE COOKIES?
WHY WOULD A CREATURE OF PURE AMBITION BOTHER TO PLAYER 88 MAN WHO SIDETRACKED HER CAREER TO ARKANSAS.
HILLARY CLINTON WAS LIKE COMPUTER PROGRAM.
WHEN FED INTO THE STEREOTYPICAL PSYCHE, BROKE THE MACHINE.
ISN'T THAT THE ULTIMATE DILEMMA?
OF WHAT PEOPLE WRESTLE WITH WITH HILLARY CLINTON.
I DON'T THINK THAT HILLARY IS A COMPUTER PROGRAM.
I THINK SHE'S A PERSON.
AND I THINK, DOES SHE HAVE CONTRADICTIONS?
YES.
DO WE ALL HAVE CONTRADICTIONS?
YES!
WHAT ADULT CAN'T UNDERSTAND SORT OF HAVING LIKE CONFLICTING IMPULSES, OR SOMETIMES MAKING THE WRONG CHOICE.
THAT DOESN'T SEEM STRANGE AT ALL TO ME.
I MEAN, THERE IS THIS PUBLIC IDEA THAT HILLARY, THE WORD THAT'S USED IS UNKNOWABLE.
I THINK THAT SAYS MORE ABOUT WHAT WE ASK OF FEMALE PUBLIC FIGURES AND HOW COZY WE EXPECT THEM TO BE WITH US.
I WOULDN'T SAY SHE'S MORE UNKNOWABLE THAN MITT ROMNEY OR PETE BUTTIGIEG.
WHAT IS KNOWABILITY?
THAT'S REALLY A VERY INTERESTING POINT OF THE ANYWAY, YOU POINT OUT AFTERWARDS THAT SHE DOES GO ON TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
I WON'T DO ALL THE SPOILERS.
IN OUR FINAL 30 SECONDS, I WOULD UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FEEL WITH THIS BOOK COMING OUT.
THE FAMOUS TWEET THAT DID YOU OF YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN WEDDING DRESS THAT WENT VIRAL ALL OVER THE PLACE.
TALK TO ME A LITTLE ABOUT THE BOOK COMING OUT NOW AND HOW THAT CAME ABOUT.
WITH, THE THING THAT I WOULD SAY ABOUT THE BOOK COMING OUT, I FEEL LIKE AS A READER, I LOVE WHEN A BOOK KIND OF IMMERSES ME IN THIS OTHER WORD AND TAKES ME AWAY AND ENTERTAINS ME AND DISTRACTS ME AND PROVOKES ME.
I HOPE, I THINK FOR THE RIGHT READERS, WHICH IS NOT EVERYBODY, I THINK AND HOPE THAT RODHAM CAN DO THAT.
SO I HAVE NOT WORN MY WEDDING DRESS EXCEPT THAT DAY WHEN MY CHILDREN JOKINGLY ASK ME TO AND I DO NOT PLAN TO EVER AGAIN.
CURTIS SITTENFELD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AUTHOR OF RODHAM.
THANK YOU.
> IF YOU'RE ON A WAITING LIST FOR AN ELITE TOP TIER UNIVERSITY, YOU MIGHT BE GETTING A CALL THIS YEAR.
THAT IS PREDICTION FROM SCOTT GALLOWAY.
HE'S THE HOST OF A NEW SHOW ON VICE.
IT IS CALLED NO MERCY NO, MALICE OF THE AND IT PULLS BACK THE CURTAIN ON THE DECISIONS AND PLAYERS DRIVING THE ECONOMY IN AMERICA OF THE HE ALSO CO-HOSTS THE PODCAST PIVOT WITH CARA SWISHER.
HERE HE IS TELLING WHY THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME FOR STUDENTS TO TAKE A GAP YEAR.
THANKS SO MUCH.
SCOTT GALLOWAY, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION, A LOT OF PEOPLE HEAR YOU ON PODCASTS AND THEY SEE YOU ON TV.
THEY DON'T KNOW THAT ONE OF YOUR MANY GIGS IS AS PROFESSOR.
I WANT TO LOOK AT HIGHER EDUCATION.
MAYBE BREAK IT DOWN OF HOW ARE STUDENTS THAT ARE GOING TO HIGHER EDUCATION NOW THROUGH THE TIME OF COVID, WHAT IS LIFE LIKE IN THIS NEW REALITY?
THREE QUARTERS SAY THEIR EXPERIENCES HAD BEEN SEVERELY DIMINISHED.
THE X FACTOR IS IF AND WHEN WE GET A VACCINE.
YOU COULD SEE THINGS HOPEFULLY RETURNED SOMEWHAT TO NORMAL SOON OR JUST NOT GO BACK THERE OF THE STUDENTS I THINK ACROSS AMERICA, ALONG WITH THEIR FAMILIES, ARE ALL BEGINNING TO WONDER WHAT KIND OF VALUE THEY'RE GETTING FOR THEIR TUITION DOLLARS.
SO THERE'S A PERSONAL DISAPPOINTMENT THAT STUDENTS DIDN'T GET TO GO TO COMMENCEMENT, THEY DIDN'T GET TO HAVE THEIR COLLEGE YEAR IN A WAY THEY'RE ACCUSTOMED TO.
TO SAY THERE IS A RECOGNITION OR A DISAPPOINTMENT ACROSS AMERICA, I WOULD SAY IT'S NOT THAT THEY'RE DISAPPOINTED IN THE ZOOM CLASSES.
IT IS MORE THE RECOGNITION THAT ZOOM HAS UNCOVERED HOW IS.
A LOT OF HOUSEHOLDS ARE SAYING, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PAYING FOR?
SO IT'S AFFECTING DIFFERENT STAKE HOLDERS IN A DIFFERENT WAY ACROSS AMERICA.
WHAT HAPPENS TO INSTITUTIONS?
YOU STUDY BUSINESS.
YOU TALK ABOUT IT.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOME OF THESE STUDENTS DECIDE, THERE DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE FOR ME TO PAY THIS MUCH.
LET'S SAY THEY'RE DECREASING REVENUES, OR THE SPORTS TEAMS THAT MIGHT NOT BE HAVING NICE LUCRATIVE CONTRACTS.
EVEN MORE THAN, THAT OUR FOREIGN STUDENTS.
THEY PAID FULL TUITION, THEY MIGHT NOT DECIDE TO SHOW UP.
THE ARGUMENT, THE ELITE, TRULY HIGH END UNIVERSITIES ARE GOING TO BE FINE.
THE HEAD OF HARVARD EMISSIONS STATED THAT HE COULD DOUBLE THE SIZE OF HIS FRESHMAN CLASS.
IT IS A GREAT TIME BECAUSE YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET A CALL.
ONE IN FOUR KIDS ARE SAYING THEY'LL TAKE THEIR GAP YEAR.
WHICH MEANS THE TOP UNIVERSITY WILL REACH INTO THEIR WAITING LIST WHICH WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE, THE SECOND TIER UNIVERSITIES, THEY'LL REACH TO THEIR WAITING LISTS, AND THEN YOU GO TO TIER THREE BUT THERE'S NO WAITING LIST TO REACH INTO.
MORE KIDS WILL TAKE GAP YEARS AND YOU'LL SEE INCREASED PRESSURE TO LOWER COSTS.
JUST AS EQUITY ANALYSTS CAN SEE IT, YOU WILL SEE AN INCREDIBLE, EXPENSIVE TUITION, LOW ENDOWMENTS.
4,500 UNIVERSITY IN THE U.S.
YOU COULD SEE 1,000 TO 2,000 GO OUT OF BUSINESS IN THE NEXT FIVE TO TEN YEARS WITH DEPARTMENT STORES WERE TO RETAIL, HIGH TUITION UNIVERSITIES ARE ABOUT TO BECOME TO EDUCATION.
THEY'LL SOON BE THE WALKING DEAD.
YOU'RE STAYING HARVARDS WILL BE LEFT UP THERE OF THE THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE THAT MIGHT PROVIDE LOCAL VALUE WILL BE AROUND BUT THE MIDDLE GETS EATEN UP.
SO LOUIE VUITTON WILL BE JUST FINE.
WEALTHY PEOPLE ARE JUST FINE IN THIS PANDEMIC.
THE MAJORITY ARE JUST FINE THROUGH PANDEMIC.
THOSE UNIVERSITIES ARE NO LONGER PUBLIC SERVANTS.
WHEN YOU GET INTO YALE, IT'S A $350,000 COMMITMENT AT 90 PLUS POINTS OF GROSS MARGIN.
NO OTHER PRODUCT IN THE WORD THAT GETS SIX FIGURES PLUS.
APPLE GETS 25.
NOTHING GETS 90 POINTS OF GROSS MARGIN.
THESE ARE THE WORLD'S STRONGEST LUXURY BRANDS TAPPING INTO THE GLOBAL WE THINKY.
WE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THERE ARE SOME LOWER INCOME THAT GET IN BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IT IS THE FINISHING SCHOOL FOR THE WEALTHY.
THEY ARE JUST FINE.
THEY'LL EXPANDS ENROLLMENT.
IF ANY% OF YOUR CLASSES GO ONLINE, YOU'VE JUST DOUBLED OVERNIGHT.
BUT THERE WILL BE A CULLING OF THE HERD.
THE WEAK HER GET CLEARED OUT.
ONCE THE CULLING IS DONE, THE STRONG, THE TOP UNIVERSITY WILL COME BACK EVEN STRONGER OF THE.
WHEN YOU SAY POINTS AND MARGINS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PROFIT?
MONDAY NIGHTS I TEACH AT NYU.
IT IS 1.2 MILLION IN TUITION JUST FOR MY CLASS.
12 NIGHTS OF THAT'S $100,000 PER NIGHT IN TUITION.
MY AGENT TAKES A 95 OR 97% COMMISSION SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT GROSS MARGINS OF 95 POINTS.
THERE IS NO LUXURY BRAND LIKE HIGHER EDUCATION.
THERE IS NO HIGHER MARGIN PRODUCT THAN EDUCATION.
TO BE BLUNT, A LOT OF UNIVERSITIES, THE TIER TWO UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CHARGE THE SAME PRICE.
WE HAVE THIS IDEA IN THE U.S.
THAT YOU'RE FAILING AS A PARENT IF YOU DON'T GET THEN IN.
TUITION HAS SKYROCKETED 1,400% IN THE LAST 40 YEARS.
WE TALK ABOUT HEALTH CARE.
THE PRICES, WE HAVE RAISED PRICES FASTER IN EDUCATION THAN IN HEALTH CARE.
IF YOU GO INTO AN EMERGENCY ROOM NOW VERSUS 1980, THINGS ARE MUCH DIFFERENT.
IF YOU GO TO A CLASS AT THE UNIVERSITY, IT LOOKS, SMES AND FEELS VERY SIMILAR TO 1980.
THIS ALL SPELLS DISRUPTION.
IT COULDN'T HAPPEN TO A MORE DESERVING GROUP OF PEOPLE WE HAVE STUCK OUR CHINS OUT AND THIS FIST OF STONE CALLED COVID-19 WILL MEET THAT CHIN OF THE.
SO PLACES MIGHT BE UP TO A BILLION DOLLARS SHORT BY THE END OF THE YEAR?
I WOULD ARGUE WE HAVE ENTERED A SITUATION WHERE UNFORTUNATELY, AMERICA HAS BACK CAST SYSTEM.
IT IS WHERE YOU GET YOUR COLLEGE DEGREE.
OUR GOVERNMENT, OUR CULTURE, OUR ECONOMY IS RUN BY PEOPLE WITH BUSINESS DEGREES AND COULD GO DEGREES TO FIGHT BACK.
ONLY A THIRD OF AMERICA HAS COLLEGE DEGREES.
SO PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT.
IT STARTS WITH ALL THE SURPLUS.
THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN SURVIVED.
WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD BE SOME PRESSURE, SOME OF THE SAME PRESSURE BUSINESSES AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS ARE FEELING TO CUT COSTS, I WOULD SAY US FEELING THAT PRESSURE IS A GOOD THING OVER THE LONG TERM.
I'M NOT SURE A BAILOUT, I WORRY IT CREATES THE SAME MORAL HAZARD THAT HAS LED TO FACULTIES AND DEPARTMENTS, THINGS LIKE LEADERSHIP AND TENURE, WHICH QUITE FRANKLY I SEE AS NOTHING BUT DEAD ON YOUNG PEOPLE.
I GET WHY STATE UNIVERSITIES SHOULD GET MORE FUNDING.
I'M HERE BECAUSE OF THE GENEROSITY AND VISION OF CALIFORNIA TAXPAYERS AND GETTING NEAR FREE DEGREES FROM UCLA AND BERKELEY.
I THINK GOVERNMENT FUNDING OF PUBLIC LAND GRANT INSTITUTIONS IS WARRANTED OF THE UNLESS YOU'RE GROWING YOUR FRESHMAN SEATS FASTER THAN THE POPULATION, YOU AREN'T A PUBLIC SERVANT OF THE YOU ARE A LUXURY BRAND OF THE WE SHOULD BEGIN ATTACHING ENDOWMENTS.
EXPLAIN THAT.
LOOK.
THE NOTION OF TENURE IS TO PROVIDE ACTION DID HEIC FREEDOM AND PROTECTION FROM PEOPLE HAD A ARE SAYING CONTROVERSIAL THINGS.
GALILEO COULD MAKE PROVOCATIVE STATEMENTS AND NOT BE BURNED AT THE STAKE.
I WOULD ARGUE THERE ARE STILL DEPARTMENTS IN THE HUMANITIES THAT REQUIRE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF PRO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION A CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, OR TIED TO THE CULTURE THAT WOULD NOT RESPECT THE FREE THOUGHT THAT YOU LOVE AND VALUE ON CAMPUS.
I WOULD ARGUE, FOR EXAMPLE, AT BUSINESS SCHOOLS, WE HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL AND TENURE IS NOTHING BUT ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE GUILDS.
I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOCIAL SERVICE FOR THE OVEREDUCATED CALLED TENURE.
THAT'S ABOUT THE TIME AN ACADEMIC IS ABOUT TO ENTER THEIR MOST UNPRODUCTIVE YEARS.
WE ARE ABOUT TO GIVE THEM JOB SECURITY THAT WILL COST $30 OR $40 MILLION OVER THE NEXT 30 OR 40 YEARS.
IT CREATES A LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND IT IS NOT HARD TO CONNECT THE DOTS.
IT RESULTS IN YOUNG PEOPLE HAVING MORE STUDENT DEBT THAN THERE IS CREDIT CARD DEBT.
IT INHIBTSS PEOPLE GETTING MARRIED, IT INHIBITS PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO START COPIES THAT HELP THE ECONOMY.
SO SOME OF THE EXCUSE, INCLUDING MINE, WHERE IT HAS BECOME A FORM OF COLLEGIATE COMPENSATION.
IT DIRECTLY RESULTS IN STUDENT DEBT.
THERE ARE LAW SCHOOLS SAYING THIS COVID EDUCATION IS NOT WHAT I'M PAYING FOR.
I WANT MY MONEY BACK.
ARE SCHOOLS IN A POSITION TO DO THAT?
SO THERE ARE 25 PENDING CASES OF STUDENTS IN THEIR FINAL YEAR WHO SAY THIS ISN'T WHAT WE SIGNED UP FOR.
WE WANT OUR MONEY BACK.
IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS, I'VE TALKED WITH LEADERSHIP AT SIX DIFFERENT UNIVERSITIES.
THEY HAVE A TON OF IDEAS AND PLATITUDES, WE'RE IN IT TOGETHER OF THE ONE IDEA I NEVER HEAR IS THAT THEY NEED TO REDUCE THEIR COSTS.
THAT IS COMING.
IT SEEPS NATURAL.
WHEN EVERYBODY IS BEING CUT, STATE EMPLOYEES AND PARKS AND NATIONAL SERVICES ARE BEING CUT, THE UNIVERSITY SHOULD HAVE SOME OF THE SAME PRESSURE TO OPERATE BETTER PRODUCTS AT A LOWER PRICE OF THAT'S ALL THIS COMES DOWN TO.
THERE'S EDUCATION PART, THE EXPERIENCE.
IF THE EXPERIENCE PART IS DRAMATICALLY REDUCED, AND THE EDUCATION PART IS SOMEWHAT REDUCED BECAUSE OF REMOTE LEARNING, SHOULD WE STILL BE CHARGING $58,000 OR $68,000 OR WAITING FOR BAILOUT?
NO.
WE SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE SAME PRESSURES AS THE REST OF AMERICA.
THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY HERE WEST NEED TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE ENROLLMENT SIZE.
WE NEED TO DRAMATICALLY DECREASE COSTS.
WE CAN NO LONGER HAVE A SOCIETY WHICH SAYS, THE CHILDREN OF RICH PEOPLE ARE 77 MORE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO GET INTO COLLEGE IS THAT THE THE ONES FROM LOWER INCOME SCHOOLS GET TO SHARE THE SPOILS OF SOCIETY.
THIS HAS BECOME A CASTE SYSTEM AND WE ARE THE ARBITERS OF IT.
IT HAS BECOME PROHIBITIVE.
SO SOME OF THE PAIN AND THE CHALLENGE IS LONG OVERDUE.
IF YOU'RE GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL, SHOULD YOU TAKE A GAP YEAR?
MAYBE PRICES CHANGE OVER THE NEXT YEAR?
WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, SCHOOLS ALMOST BRAG ABOUT HOW MANY KIDS THEY REJECT.
EXCLUSIVITY IS PART OF WHAT THEY'RE SELLING.
WE'VE BECOME DRUNK ON EXCLUSIVITY.
WE'RE A LUXURY BRAND.
DEANS OF THE BEST EXCUSE STAND UP EVERY YEAR AND SAY WE'VE REJECTED NOT 84, 86% OF OUR APPLICANTS BUT 90%. THAT'S ATTENDANT ATTEMPT TO A HOMELESS SHELTER SAYING THEY TURNED AWAY 90% OF THOSE WHO SHOWED UP LAST NIGHT.
I WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN INTO UCLA TODAY.
THAT MEANS YOUR SON OR YOUR DAUGHTER ISN'T GETTING IN.
SO WE NEED TO MASSIVELY INCREASE THE NUMBER OF SEATS.
I WOULD SAY THAT YOU NEED A LOT OF GAP YEARS OF THE IF YOU HAVE THE LUXURY OF TAKING A GAP YEAR, HAS THE GOOD YEAR TO FIGURE IT OUT AS WE IN UNIVERSITIES TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT.
AND WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT OF HOW TO HAVE A HYBRID EDUCATION.
IT IS A GREAT YEAR IF YOU HAVE THE LUXURY TO TAKE A GAP YEAR.
IT IS A GREAT TIME TO BE ON THE WAITING LIST FOR A WORLD CLASS UNIVERSITY.
THERE IS NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME FOR A WORLD CLASS WAITING LIST.
SO IF YOU'VE DECIDED TO SWALLOW THAT JAGGED LITTLE PILL OF EXTRAORDINARY TUITION, I WOULD RETHINK IT AND CALL THEM BACK AND ASK FOR MORE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE AND REALLY DECIDE.
IS IT WORTH THE MONEY?
THE PRICE HERE, ANYTHING REACCEPTBLING A SOCIAL GOOD.
WE HAVE PRICED OUFS OUT OF THE AFFORDABILITY OF MIDDLE CLASS HOPES.
THE DISRUPTION IS COMING AND TO BE BLUNT, WE DESERVE IT.
BEYOND EDUCATION, IF YOU'RE BIG NOW, AMAZON, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT YOU COULD THAT OUT OF THIS EVEN BIGGER.
THAT ESSENTIALLY YOU WIPED OUT A LOT OF SMALL MOM AND POP BUSINESSES ON MAIN STREET AND I DON'T THINK THEY'LL COME BACK.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE EXTRA TWO MONTHS WORTH OF CUSHION WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY CUSTOMERS AND THEY WERE CITY RESPONSIBLE FOR COSTS.
YEAH.
YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.
IF YOU OWN $100 WORTH OF AMAZON, GOOGLE STOCK JANUARY 1st, AFTER A PANDEMIC, AFTER THE GREATEST PRICES OF OUR GENERATION, EVEN WITH A GREAT DEAL OF UNCERTAINTY OF OUR ABILITY TO GET OUT OF THE CRISIS, YESTERDAY MORE INFECTIONS REPORTED THAN TODAY, YOU WOULD HAVE $111.
THOSE STOCKS ARE UP 11% AS WE SIT HERE TODAY.
I THINK WHAT THE MARKET IS SAYING IS THAT THIS CULLING OF THE CORPORATE HERD ONLY MEANS GOOGLE AND FACEBOOK WILL GO FROM OWNING 60 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR TO 70.
IT MEANS THAT AMAZON WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL AS THEY VACCINATE THE SUPPLY CHAIN AND ECOULD THATTERS GOES FROM 2% TO 15%. WHICH IS A TRANSITION OF $100 BILLION IN GROCERY SPENDING FROM TERRESTRIAL TO ONLINE WHICH WILL BENEFIT WALMART AND AMAZON.
IT IS AS IF THIS PANDEMIC, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT OUR GOVERNMENT ACTION AROUND STIMULUS, IT HAS BEEN THE APPLE, GOOGLE SHARE HOLDER ACT OF THE SO THEY CONSOLIDATE.
THEY PICK UP GREAT COPIES ON THE CHEAP AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM SURVIVING.
GOOGLE HAS ENOUGH CASH ON HAND TO BUY BOEING AND AIR BUS JUST WITH THE CASH THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW.
SO YOU'RE ALREADY SEEING IT.
FACEBOOK MAKING INVESTMENTS HAS EVERY COMPANY, 98% OF THE CORPORATE WORLD IS PLAYING AND LAYING OFF EMPLOYEES.
THEY'RE MAKING ACQUISITIONS, INVESTMENTS AND SOAKING UP THE BEST HUMAN CAPITAL.
THIS IS DANGEROUS OF THESE COMPANIES WERE TOO POWERFUL TO BEGIN WITH.
THEY AVOID TAXES.
THEY ARE NOT HEAD ACCOUNTABLE.
SO IT IS GREAT TO BE A SHARE HOLDER.
I WOULD ARGUE IT IS BAD FOR CITIZENS AND BAD FOR THE ECONOMY LONG RUN, BUT NO GETTING AROUND IT.
THEY COME OUT STRONGER.
WHEN THE RAINS RETURN AFTER THE CAN YOU GO, THERE IS MORE FOR THE NAPS.
WILL.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
> AND FINALLY, AS AMERICA MARKS MEMORIAL DAY, WE WANT TO MARK THE PASSING OF ASSESS HE'LL.
SHE WAS A HEROIN OF THE FRENCH RESISTANCE SHELF DIED AGE 101 ON MAY 8th.
IT WAS THE 75th ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF THE WAR IN EUROPE.
WORKING ALONGSIDE HER HUSBAND AND RESISTANCE LEADERS, SHE IS IS HE CELEBRATED FOR RISKING HER LIFE TO HELP LIBERATE PARIS FROM NAZI OCCUPATION OF HER OBITUARY DESCRIBED HOW SHE FAMOUSLY HID WEAPONS UNDER HER BABY'S PROGRAM AND SMUGGLED THEN ACROSS THE CITY.
DESPITE THE DANGERS, SHE SAID SHE NEVER THOUGHT OF ABANDONING THE RESISTANCE.
THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
REMEMBER, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & CO.' ON PBS.