Street Artist JR: “I’m Actually More Inspired Than Ever”

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: And now our next guest has taken the art world by storm. The French street artists J.R. is known for giant photographs of faces in urban centers. I spoke to him back in 2013, when his first major exhibition in the United States happened. It was called Chronicles. And it was at the Brooklyn Museum. And it showcased two decades of his work. And here he is talking to our Hari Sreenivasan about why this pandemic inspires him even more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARI SREENIVASAN: Thanks so much, Christiane. J.R., thanks for joining us. I know that so much of your work has been about community and public participation. And here we are around the world at a time where interaction between people is limited. So, how does art play a role today?

J.R., STREET ARTIST: Well, art have many form. And I think, today, art plays a role in creating a chain of solidarity, creating a chain of hope. In many of the projects that I have started or that I witness or that often inspire me, there is always a sense of hope, a sense of raising question, not necessarily giving answers. And I think that, as long as there is this component in the art process, then it is art, and it is inspiring even in moments like that. And I would have hundreds of examples to give you. But during this time, I’m actually more inspired in the neighbor, and it gives me a big push and a big kick.

SREENIVASAN: You had a cover image on — of “TIME” magazine, and it is in the middle of a street in Paris. What were you trying to convey with that image? J.R.: Well, with would the cover of “TIME,” it was when we were in complete, complete lockdown in France, and I wanted to place an image that people would see from their window. So I didn’t look for any wall. I didn’t look for any rooftop. I just looked from what I would see from my window, a street and a crosswalk. And I would say, oh, if I see that, and people see it. Other people are looking at the street and wonder when they will be walking that street again. And so I just went in the morning, and early, early morning, and pasted it at, so that it appeared. It was actually a quick one. In 24 minutes, it was done. But there is a project, like we just did now with the graduate students in America, where, basically, those students can’t paste the image, the students can’t go in my photo booth.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

J.R.: So, we had to create a features through Snapchat, say, anyone from home can send us a photo with their background. And then we will use the billboards that are not being used right now on Times Square and other places, and we will actually celebrate you. And then this amazing TV show happened. And LeBron James and President Obama spoke. And, suddenly, they had a graduation maybe they would have never had in normal time.

SREENIVASAN: So, how many kids have posted to this virtual yearbook now?

J.R.: Oh, my God, I stopped counting. It’s tens of thousands. I mean, and it keeps going. And some — we always ask that the photo is well — so we have a great yearbook. So, the one who put their dog into it and like five friends, we have to say, no, no, guys, we do it. But it’s great because, especially after the show, a lot of kids understood, oh, I could be in that crazy yearbook. And that was — that’s one of a kind, one of a lifetime yearbook to be in.

SREENIVASAN: I want to talk a little bit about the exhibit that’s happening at the Brooklyn Museum. And, of course, nobody in the United States, nobody in New York City is going to be able to go in and walk around in that museum. They can certainly check it out online. One of the images that struck me is something that was near Domino Park or — and it’s an image that it takes a little while to process when you’re looking at it, because I think, as a viewer, when I first saw it, it’s, oh, OK, it’s a giant mural, and then one detail after another after another start to kind of reveal themselves to your head. I want to know, how did you even get this idea? Kind of take me through the process sense of what you were thinking when you first thought this would be interesting to do.

J.R.: Well, you know, I always wanted to represent the complexity of the society and the cities or the neighborhoods where we lived in throughout a mural. It’s the same way when you go to the Louvre or to this incredible museum and you have paintings, or like Diego Rivera’s painting that depict a community where no one is bigger than another, where everyone is actually the same size, and everyone is represented how they wanted to be represented. So, in those old paintings, you saw the king, and then you saw the drunk, and then you saw — everyone is just represented in the way they have been painted by the painter. But in those murals that I have made, I wanted people to choose. I say, hey, Harry, how do you want to be represented? And he would be, well, there’s many ways of being represented. I’m actually a journalist, but I’m also a fighter, and I’m also this. I will say, yes, I know, but you have to choose one way to be represented. So, he would be, you know what? I would love to actually interview someone in that mural. And I say, OK, I’m going to photograph you on green screen. And then, one day, if someone comes, because I’m going to shoot thousands of people, and someone say, well, I don’t know, I’m just this person, do you want to be interviewed by Harry? And they would be like, sure. So he’s — he already posed this way. Can you pose talking to him, so, this way, on the image you connect? So the whole mural is made like that, one by one. And you can click on any person and hear their story. And it’s completely free. And it’s right now outside at the Domino’s Park in New York, but you can also, on the J.R. Mural app that you can find for free on the app store, you can hear the story of every single person. Just click on any of them and you will hear their story, from the homeless, to a rich person, to a head of a company, or walking guy, like any person, minorities, the teacher, a student. Everyone’s represented and sharing a bit of their story. And it’s a way — it’s almost like a dream that you could walk the street and you could tap the shoulder of anyone and be, hey, what’s your story?

SREENIVASAN: There’s an image you created or a piece that you created on the U.S.-Mexico border where, if you stand in a particular spot, it looks like there’s a giant toddler with his hands peeking up over the border to see what’s on the other side. Tell us a little bit about that.

J.R.: I looked at the architecture. So, if you take the U.S.-Mexico border, I’m seeing a wall there that I can’t paste on because it’s a see-through wall. And I’m like, OK, how can we use that or without touching the wall? Because I did this totally legally, so I wouldn’t have any permit to do it. So I never touched the wall. I just installed it a couple inch behind the wall. And then I don’t think I necessarily put myself looking at it. I always wonder,who can come and pass by there and see it without expecting seeing a giant artist at that exact location? So, I looked for a road that is completely public. And on the U.S. side and on the Mexican side, I wanted to find a place that you can get to that place totally legally with your own car, with your own bike, by walk. And so that’s what I did. And when you would walk there, it’s in the — suddenly, you would see that giant kid. And what people did is they started taking photos and sharing their location. And suddenly you had hundreds of people coming and taking photos. And you know what happened is that, actually, people started to seeing each other through the wall, because they came for the same thing. Oh, this is our piece of the wall. Let’s just go to take a photo. They would go down there with the family, take a selfie, and then they realize, oh, there’s family on the other side doing the exact same thing. Hey, guys, how are you? Then they started exchanging phones and saying, hey, I give you my phone. Do you mind taking a photo from your side? I saw that on social media. I saw photos of people passing each other’s phone. This is totally illegal. You get arrested. You get deported. I don’t know. Like, it’s — there’s Border Patrol watching all over. None of the person that have done that over one month have been arrested. So, what does that mean? It means that there was Border Patrol who look and were like, that doesn’t look like those guys are doing anything illegal. Let them be. They’re just being human. They’re exchanging. They’re talking. They’re sharing. And that inspired me so much that I came back and did the tables for the entire wall, where people ate together.

SREENIVASAN: On two sides of the table, who’s sitting there eating?

J.R.: So, there’s the wall dividing U.S. and Mexico, and then the table would go through that wall, and, basically, a giant, giant table. On the U.S. side, you would have American people came there to eat, and on the Mexican side, they had Mexicans who came there to eat, knowing that the table would continue. We — because, on the Mexican side, we know we wouldn’t be bothered by the authority, we could bring a taco stand and musicians and everything. And then, on the U.S. side, we just put a big tap on the floor. People brought their food. We passed some illegal tacos through the wall. And we all sat there thinking that we’re going to get arrested after five minutes. Now, what happened is, an hour-and-a-half later, still no Border Patrol have passed by, which is impossible, which means that they have seen us from a distance and decided to let it happen. And after an hour-and-a-half, one Border Patrol came back alone. He dropped, came out of the car. And I was on the Mexican side. And I said to them, well, send him over to me. I will talk to him. And as he came, I say, I’m sorry, officer. I’m responsible for this. But we’re almost done. We have the dessert now. He said, no, it’s fine. I don’t come to arrest anybody. Just you can continue. Just don’t stay too long. And I said, would you share tea with he, officer? And he said, sure, sure. And we have a video of that. And someone passed me tea, passed him tea, and we cheer. And then I say, officer, we are filming right now? Is it a problem, because we can see your name on your badge? And, you know, obviously, this is not legal at all. And he say, no, it’s fine. I’m OK with that. I took his number, and I texted him couple a hours later. I say, officer, are you sure I can post that image, because it’s very powerful? But I don’t want you to get in trouble. You were so kind to all of us. He say, no, it’s fine. I want to show another perspective, another vision. I have been walking at this border for years and years, and I have family that’s on the other side. I understand the complexity. I didn’t arrest anybody today. But, it’s, of course, a one-of-a-kind of moment. I was just part of — I was just glad to be part of it, so please share it. And maybe I will get insulted by some people. I get congratulated by some others. And I stayed in touch with him. He is an incredible person. And you will see that video has inspired a lot, a lot of us. Almost — that moment is almost as inspiring as the whole project. And I have worked recently in jail, maximum security for — jail in California called Tehachapi. And we pasted the entire yard of the jail with the faces of the inmates and of AIDS victims and of people who actually came out of the jail. And who would have thought that would be possible? Who would have thought that the guards decided to certainly paste with the inmates? It was an incredible moment. You can see images. I left them on my Instagram also.

SREENIVASAN: That image of those prisoners at the time, when you look at it from above, you see them in the prison yard and you see them — you see their faces. You don’t necessarily see their prison clothes that says they’re prisoners, but, obviously, in the context, you know exactly what it is. How do you figure out how not to take any moral judgment or a stance on who the people are, what they have done, who they have hurt?

J.R.: Who was I to judge? I wanted to see a project like that will be possible. I told them that it would be the same thing as the mural I did in New York, that anyone could be able to click on their face and hear their story. And I say, I’m not going to interview you. I’m going to not going to try to conduct this interview one way or another. I’m just going to put the mic, you’re going to share your story. But, remember, there’s people on the other side of the planet who don’t know you who also might think you are in this chair for good reason. So explain them where you come from, what happened, what’s your story, how did you end up here, what’s — how did you change or not? What is your story? And a lot of those stories are unbelievable. Often, I was lucky to be able to bring my phone in. And I remember, first day I went there, there was a guy named Kevin. He had a swastika on his face. Of course, I’m there with a crew of people from different races and region. And this is offending. And — but I have never met one guy like that. So,as soon as I saw him, I was like, hey, man, what’s up with this? And he was like, oh, this, oh, man, I mean — oh, yes. And it’s not that I forget that I have it, but it’s from another — from the past, I was brainwashed. When I came to jail, I was really young, and you just try to go for shock and awe and all this. And then I realized I was brainwashed. And I’m stuck with this. I’m in jail. I can’t take it off. But, man, trust me if I could remove it, I would remove it. And I shared that on social media, and — what he said. And people say, oh, my God, I will help him if he wants — we have to remove it. We will help him.

And each I would see him, I would say — I would read him the comments of the people asking him a question. And I would say, hey, look, this person is asking you actually this and that. What would you say to that? And he would just speak freely on social media about it. And I went and saw Art Spiegelman, who wrote “Maus,” who — is an incredible cartoon about what happened in the camp during World War II. And I asked him to sign him a copy. And, actually, my friend Mark (ph) on my team went and grabbed it from Art Spiegelman. We brought him the book. And we gave it to Kevin. And we say, Kevin, you might not know this book, but you should read it. This is what happened to the Jews during the Holocaust. So he read it. And the next day, he sat with us and he said, look, I spoke to my mom yesterday. And she told me that my uncle actually was Polish, and we — he used to hide Jews in Poland. So he went to the camp himself. And I didn’t know that part of my story. Had no idea. And here I am wearing a swastika on my face, where some of my families were fighting against that. And so I sent a little video to Art Spiegelman to thank him for that. But people can change. And if we don’t believe in change, if you don’t believe that a man can change, then what’s the point of, like, sending humans into cages for the rest of their life?

SREENIVASAN: Do you see that — a potential here for us to value art more, having gone through this time where we’re going through our own mental health issues, we’re going through our own stresses, perhaps it’s economic, perhaps it’s health-related?

J.R.: Definitely. I think art have this incredible power to show you, I call it the gray zone, the zone that no one is really exploring, to show you a different path, to show something where — as an artist, I can fail. I can try something and fail. But if it works, like the project in the prison, the project at the border, if that works, then it shows you, oh, maybe the world is not exactly how I imagined it was. And it shows you a new perspective, literally, with a piece of paper and glue. So, if art can do that, then, yes, it can touch me if you are at home, if you can’t go out, if you can only watch it through a computer. It will actually give you the power to think, oh, my God, no, I should not see the world as this dark place where everything is stopping. I should see the world as, actually, I can do things around me. Actually, if I can’t travel, I will do anything I can in my own neighborhood, that there’s always a way. I think it’s just a moment where I hope that it’s just for a moment time we have to invent ourselves. We have to be more solidarity to other people because of this time. And — but I believe people have that in them always. I’m an optimist, you know?

(LAUGHTER)

SREENIVASAN: All right, J.R., thanks so much for joining us.

J.R.: Thank you so much.