May 29, 2020

> 'AMANPOUR & CO.' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY ROSALIND P. WALTER, BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ, SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND, THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR WORKING FROM HOME IN LONDON.

PROTESTS RAISE IN THE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY FOR A FOURTH DAY AGAINST THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD, AN UNARMED BLACK MAN WHO DIED AFTER WHITE POLICE OFFICERS PINNED HIM DOWN WITH HIS KNEE.

THAT OFFICER HAS JUST BEEN TAKEN INTO CUSTODY TODAY AND A WARNING THIS NEXT VIDEO I'M ABOUT TO SHOW IS DISTURBING.

IT APPEARS TO DEPICT TWO OTHER OFFICERS, ALSO KNEELING ON GEORGE FLOYD AS HE BEGS FOR HIS LIFE.

EARLIER, ON TWITTER, PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLED ON THE NATIONAL GUARD TO RESTORE ORDER IN MINNEAPOLIS.

TWITTER THEN TAGGED THE TWEET AS PROMOTING VIOLENCE AS IT READ, WHEN THE LOOTING STARTS, THE SHOOTING STARTS WHICH IS A CHILLING PHRASE FROM THE MIAMI POLICE CHIEF WAY BACK IN 1967.

THIS MORNING, A CNN CREW WERE RELEASED FROM CUSTODY AFTER BEING ARRESTED WHILE JUST DOING THEIR JOB, REPORTING THE STORY IN MINNEAPOLIS.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE MOMENT THE CORN OMAR JIMENEZ IS CONFRONTED BY POLICE AND LED AWAY.

IN A PRESS CONFERENCE TODAY, MINNESOTA'S GOVERNOR APOLOGIZED TO THE CREW AND SPOKE ABOUT THE NEED TO STAY FOCUSED ON THE STRUCTURAL ISSUES AT PLAY IN HIS STATE.

WE CANNOT HAVE THE LOOTING AND RECKLESSNESS THAT WENT ON.

WE CANNOT HAVE IT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FUNCTION AS A SOCIETY AND I REFUSE TO HAVE IT TAKE AWAY THE ATTENTION OF THE STAIN THAT WE NEED TO BE WORKING ON, WHAT HAPPENED WITH THOSE FUNDAMENTAL INSTITUTIONAL RACISM THAT ALLOWS A MAN TO BE HELD DOWN IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND THANK GOD A YOUNG PERSON HAD A CAMERA TO VIDEO IT.

BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A PERSON HERE OR A LISTING TODAY THAT WONDERS HOW MANY TIMES THAT CAMERA IS NOT THERE.

THESE ARE TOUGH QUESTIONS.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN BREWING IN THIS COUNTRY FOR 400 YEARS.

TOUGH QUESTIONS INDEED.

HE ALSO APPEALED FOR CALM AND FOR VIOLENT PROTESTS TO END.

FLOYD'S DEATH, OF COURSE, ADDS TO LONGSTANDING ANGER OVER POLICE KILLINGS OF UNARMED BLACK AMERICANS.

ONCE AGAIN, RAISING THE PAINFUL QUESTIONS OF INSTITUTIONAL RACISM, POLICING AND INEQUALITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

WITH ME TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS IS THE REVEREND JESSE JACKSON.

HE IS ONE OF MANAGER'S FOREMOST CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS AND HE IS JOINING ME FROM CHICAGO, HAVING BEEN IN MINNEAPOLIS.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST, SINCE YOU WERE IN MINNEAPOLIS, AS THIS IS GOING ON, AND NOW YOU SEE THAT THE MAIN ACCUSED, OFFICER CHAUVIN, HAS BEEN TAKEN INTO CUSTODY.

IS THAT JUSTICE FOR YOU AT THE MOMENT, REVEREND JACKSON?

IT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

WE'VE BEEN BOUND IN FLORIDA, MISSOURI, NEW YORK, NOW WE LOOK AT THE CASE HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

TOO MANY TIMES USED AS TARGET PRACTICE.

WHITE SUPREMACISTS DISGUISED.

WHEN YOU WENT TO MINNEAPOLIS AND YOU MET WITH FAMILY MEMBERS, YOU OBVIOUSLY MET WITH LOCAL LEADERS AS WELL, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

WHAT DID THEY SAY TO YOU ABOUT HOW THIS COULD HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN?

I MET WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FIRST AND WITH THE PROSECUTOR, I MET WITH THE GOVERNOR, THE MAYOR OF MINNEAPOLIS.

THE FIRST ISSUE IS TO DECLARE A MURDERER A MURDERER.

YOU ARREST MURDERERS.

SO ANOTHER DELAY TACTIC AND PEOPLE ARE EXPLODING.

WE DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE BUILT ON A SOCIETY OF WHITE SUPREMACY.

IN 1954, WE HAD NO RESPECT FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES.

SO WE'RE A SICK CULTURE.

REVEREND JACKSON, IT HAS, AND IT KEEPS REARING ITS VERY, VERY UGLY HEAD.

TO BE FRANK, THE WHOLE WORLD IS SHOCKED AND CONTINUES TO BE SHOCKED WHEN THESE KINDS OF THINGS HAPPEN IN A COUNTRY LIKE THE UNITED STATES.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, YOU HEARD THE GOVERNOR SAYING AND APPEALING FOR CALM AND REALLY CRITICIZING WHAT HE CALLED THE PEOPLE WHO WERE HARMING THE COMMUNITY, THE MEMORY OF GEORGE FLOYD, HARMING THE BABILITY OF THE FOCUS ON TH BURNING BUILDINGS.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU MAKE OF THE PROTESTS.

I KNOW YOU CALLED FOR MORE PROTESTS UNTIL THERE WAS JUSTICE.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE PROTESTS ALSO LED TO AT LEAST ONE ARREST SO FAR?

YOU KNOW, WE THINK WHAT'S NATURAL IS NORMAL.

WHAT IS NORMAL IS NATURAL.

WE LIVE UNDER THE DAILY DISTANCING, HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION GAP, JOB GAP.

AND EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

WE DESERVE THAT.

AND IN A KILLING LIKE THIS, LET'S END THE HUMILIATION.

LET'S LEARN TO LIVE TOGETHER LIKE CIVILIZED PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

AS YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, JOE BIDEN, HAS SPOKEN TODAY AND HE HAS.

AND I'M PARAPHRASING, THE PAIN OF THIS IS TOO IMMENSE FOR ONE COMMUNITY TO TRY TO RIGHT IT.

IT HAS TO BE AMERICA'S BLACKS AND WHITES AND EVERYBODY RISING UP TO STOP THIS KIND OF PANDEMIC.

THIS KIND OF PANDEMIC THAT WE SEE WITH UNARMED BLACK MEN AND WOMEN ON A REGULAR BASIS.

IN EVERY COMMUNITY, THERE IS THE HEALTH GAP, THE SCHOOL GAP.

AMERICA, RACIAL AND CORONAVIRUS.

DON'T GET TRAPPED BY CODE BLUE, POLICE, AND THE PROTOCOLS FOR COVID-19.

THE ANGER AND FRUSTRATION, THEY'RE NOT WEARING MASKS, THEY'RE NOT DISTANCING, AND YOU CAN HAVE A SPIKE IN CORONA UNLESS YOU'RE EXTREMELY LUCKY.

CAN I ASK YOU, IT HARKS BACK TO THE 1960s WHERE YOU WERE ALL CAMPAIGNING FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

YOU KNOW THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP TWEETED ABOUT THE VIOLENT PROTESTS.

HE SAID THESE THUGS ARE DISHONORING THE MEMORY OF GEORGE FLOYD AND I WON'T COMPLETE HAPPEN.

JUST SPOKE TO GOVERNOR TIM WALZ AND SAID THE MILITARY IS WITH HIM ALL THE WAY.

AND HERE'S WHERE IT GETS VERY DIFFICULT.

ANY DIFFICULTY, SAID THE PRESIDENT, AND WE WILL ASSUME CONTROL.

BUT WHEN THE LOOTING STARTS, THE SHOOTING STARTS.

THANK YOU, HE SAID.

AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU RECOGNIZE THAT TERM.

IT WAS THE ONE THAT WAS USED IN 1967 BY THE POLICE CHIEF OF MIAMI DURING SOME RIOTS THEN.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE USE OF THAT TERM?

IT MAY HAVE BEEN IN '68, SHOOT TO KILL.

THE PAIN IS, 94% OF POLICE IN MINNEAPOLIS, THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE IS A HANGOVER.

THE PRESIDENT SHOULD BE MORE SENSITIVE AND MORE CARING.

BECAUSE A MAN BEING KILLED ON THE STREET, THE THREE POLICE.

THAT'S, WE WILL ALWAYS FIGHT BACK.

WITH DIGNITY.

WE'LL FIGHT BACK.

AS WE SPEAK, THE OFFICER WHO IS BEING TAKEN IN, THE ONE WHO HAD HIS KNEE ON GEORGE FLOYD'S NECK, AFTER WHICH GEORGE FLOYD DIED, WE KNOW, WE'RE SEEING NOW, THAT HE HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER AND MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

YOU SAID THAT HIS ARREST WAS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

THIS IS PRESUMABLY MOVING IN AN EVEN FURTHER CORRECT DIRECTION.

IS THAT RIGHT?

ACCORDING TO YOU?

THIS GUY HAS 19 COUNTS AGAINST HIM, HAVING SHOT AND KILLED SOMEBODY ON ANOTHER OCCASION.

I'M SAYING THAT HE ENJOYS, THEY KNEW EACH OTHER.

THEY WERE AT THE SAME RESTAURANT.

WE'RE TRYING TO UNRAVEL THE DETAILS NOW.

THEY SAID HE KILLED A MAN.

REVEREND JACKSON, I APPRECIATE YOU BEING WITH US THIS EVENING.

> A LOT OF THE RIOTING IS TAKING PLACE IN MINNEAPOLIS' TWIN CITY, ST. PAUL.

WITH ME NOW, MAYOR MELVIN CARTER.

LET ME ASK YOU OF THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS AND YOUR REACTION ON NOT ONLY THE ARREST OF OFFICER CHAUVIN BUT ALSO THE CHARGES THAT HAVE BEEN LEVELED AGAINST HIM NOW.

MANSLAUGHTER, MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

IS THIS ENOUGH?

OR ARE YOU STILL WAITING FOR MORE?

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

AS YOU KNOW, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA, LIKE EVERY COMMUNITY ACROSS OUR COUNTRY IS SHAKEN YET AGAIN WITH ANGER, RAGE, FRUSTRATION, MOURNING, YET ANOTHER NAME, YET ANOTHER HASHTAG OF AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN, UNARMED, NOT AGGRESSIVE, WHO DIED AT THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND THIS TRAUMA IS EXACERBATED BY THE FACT THERE IS NO HISTORICAL PROOF THAT OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM CAN'T HOLD SOMEBODY ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT.

IT IS A QUESTION OF, IS IT ENOUGH?

WE WON'T FIND OUR WAY TO ENOUGH TODAY OR THIS WEEK.

THIS IS REAL LONG TERM WORK THAT WE HAVE TO COMMIT OURSELVES TO, THAT WE HAVE SEEN BY CAMERA PHONES OVER THE LAST DECADE.

BUT THERE ARE GRANDPARENTS AND PARENTS FOR GENERATIONS AND IT WILL CONTINUE UNTIL WE CAN SHOW THAT SOMEBODY WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I'M GLAD TO SEE THIS ONE OFFICER IS BEING CHARGED, AND BEING CHARGED WITH A SIGNIFICANT CHARGE LIKE THAT.

I AM HOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE OTHER THREE OFFICERS CHARGED AS WELL, BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE OTHER THREE OFFICERS WHO NONCHALANTLY FAILED TO DO THEIR DUTY TO INTERVENE, THAT SHOWS AN ACCEPTED, A GENERALIZED, A NORMALIZED CULTURE THAT WE HAVE TO SYSTEMATICALLY DISMANTLE AS WELL.

AND AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROGRAM, WE SHOWED VIDEO THAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD SHOWS SOME OF THOSE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS INVOLVED, ALSO KNEELING ON GEORGE FLOYD.

I MEAN, THESE ARE SHOCKING IMAGES, SHOCKING FACTS THAT KEEP GOING ON.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, THIS HAPPENED ON MONDAY.

IT IS TODAY, FRIDAY.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT TOOK THIS LONG AND GAVE SPACE TO VIOLENCE?

WHY DO YOU THINK IT TOOK THIS LONG TO ARREST AND TO CHARGE THESE PEOPLE?

THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.

I'M OF COURSE NOT AN ATTORNEY.

I SHARE THAT SAME FRUSTRATION.

I HEARD YOUR CORRESPONDENTS SAYING PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

IF SOMEBODY HAD A VIDEO OF ME DOING THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE SURE FOUND A WAY TO ARREST ME THAT SAME DAY AND HAVE ME IN CUSTODY.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE FACT IS THAT WE'VE GOT A WHOLE SYSTEM OF POLICE UNION CONTRACTS, OF LEGISLATION, AND OF LEGAL PRECEDENT THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO CONVICT OFFICERS IN THESE CASES.

THAT'S A WHOLE LOT TO BE OVERTURNED.

AND I'VE FELT VERY STRONGLY, ONE, THAT I NEEDED TO SEE AN IMMEDIATE ARREST, AN IMMEDIATE CHARGING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, AND ALSO, TOO, THAT I WANTED THOSE PROSECUTORS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE BEING CAREFUL AND CAUTIOUS AND BRINGING A CHARGE THAT THEY FELT CONFIDENT THAT THEY COULD CONVICT.

LONG TERM, WE'LL NEED TO SEE A CONVICTION SO WE KNOW SOMEONE IS BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

WE SAW A TRIAL RIGHT HERE IN ST.

PAUL FOR THE KILLING THAT ENDED UP IN AN ACQUITTAL.

THAT WAS AN ENORMOUS DISAPPOINTMENT FOR ME AND A BUNCH OF OTHER FOLKS.

WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN.

YOU BRING UP A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT.

I WANT TO KNOW, CLEARLY YOU'RE THE MAYOR OF ST. PAUL AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW THE TRENDS IN THIS REGARD.

YOUR GOVERNOR SAID WE WANT JUSTICE TO BE SWIFT AND WE WITH A IT TO BE PROPERLY UNDERPINNED AND TO DO THE INVESTIGATION TO BRING PROPER, SWIFT JUSTICE.

WE HEARD THE SAME FROM YOUR ATTORNEY GENERAL, KEITH ELLISON.

BUT AS UP, THE FIGURES AND THE FACTS AROUND THE COUNTRY DO NOT SHOW EVEN WHEN THERE IS VIDEO SHOWING EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, THAT THE PERPETRATORS IN THE POLICE FORCE ARE CONVICTED ON A REGULAR BASIS, IF AT ALL.

THE TRAGEDY AND THE TRAUMA, WHEN I TELL YOU, REMEMBER THAT UNARMED AFRICAN-AMERICAN GUY SUFFOCATED BY POLICE WHILE HE CRIED, I CAN'T BREATHE, I HAVE TO CLARIFY WHICH ONE I'M TALKING ABOUT.

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THIS WITH ERIC GARNER, WE'VE SEEN TOO MANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN.

WE'VE SEEN THIS STORY PLAY OUT TOO MANY TIMES, AND THE TRAUMA THAT WE HAVE ON THE GROUND RIGHT NOW IS FOR THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE ANGRY.

I TELL THEM, I SHARE YOUR ACKER.

WE'VE HAD THREE GROUPS OF FOLKS ON THE GROUND.

FOLKS JUST HEART BROKEN BY GEORGE FLOYD'S LOSS.

FEEL LIKE HER IN SHOULD HAVE DIED.

WE HAVE TO COMMIT OURSELVES TO MAKING SURE THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

PEOPLE USING HIS DEATH AS A COVER TO BREAK WINDOWS AND START FIRES AND DOING OTHER THINGS.

THE BIGGER GROUP IS THE FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE WHO SAY RIOT GO WON'T SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS, BUT WHAT WILL?

WHEN WILL WE SEE CONVICTIONS?

WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TURNING THE PAGE HARD ON THIS AND THAT'S AN ANSWER THAT WE OWE THEM.

I WANT TO PUT IT THIS WAY.

YOU BROUGHT IN ERIC GARNER, THAT WAS A SIMILAR I CAN'T BREATHE CASE IN NEW YORK.

HIS MOTHER SAID TODAY THAT SHE OBVIOUSLY CANNER IN FORGET WHAT HAPPENED, SHE CAN NEVER FORGET WHAT HAPPENED, BUT SHE SAID IN A WAY, THERE IS SOME SPEEDIER PROCESS GOING ON IN YOUR STATE PAUSE IT HAPPENED, THE ARREST, THE CHARGING, AFTER FIVE DAYS.

FOR HER SON, IT TOOK FIVE YEARS TO EVEN HOLD THE GUILTY TO ACCOUNT.

THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

AND OUR GOAL, WE'VE WORKED VERY HARD, AND I HEARD THE CONVERSATION.

WE WORKED VERY HARD IN ST. PAUL AND ACROSS OUR STATE TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THE RELATIONSHIPS.

YOU KNOW THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OUR COMMUNITY, WE'RE NEVER DONE BUILDING THE RELATIONSHIPS.

AND EVEN THE YEARS OF WORK.

THE YEARS OF WORK CAN BE DESTROYED.

SET BACK BY ONE ACTION LIKE THIS.

SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT BRINGING A RELATIVELY SWIFT CHARGING DECISION, AND WE CAN THAT THAT IS A RELATIVE TERM.

OF COURSE, THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO FEEL VERY STRONGLY, IF WE WERE ON VIDEO DOING THAT, THE CHARGING DECISION WOULD HAVE BEEN EVEN MORE SWIFT.

BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF POLICE CONVICTIONS, THIS IS A VERY RELATIVELY SWIFT CHARGING DECISION.

HOPING IT WILL GO TOWARD JUSTICE.

SO LOOK, UNTIL REGARD, WHAT YOU SAY RIGHT NOW, IF IT WERE ANYBODY ELSE, WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH SWIFTER IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE TABLES WERE TURNED.

WHEN WE SAW A CNN COLLEAGUE BEING ARRESTED FOR LITERALLY NOTHING TODAY, IN YOUR STATE, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, SIR.

BUT MY HEART LITERALLY SUNK WHEN I SAW A BLACK REPORTER BEING MARCHED OFF BY WHITE OFFICERS ON CAMERA, AND I JUST THOUGHT TO MYSELF, OH, MY GOD.

WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN?

DID THAT GO THROUGH YOUR MIND AT ALL?

OF COURSE.

LOOK.

THIS HAS BEEN THE HALLMARK OF MY PUBLIC SERVICE.

MY FATHER IS A RETIRED MORE.

I GREW UP GOING TO FIGHT NIGHT AND SUPER BOWL PARTIES SURROUNDED BY POLICE OFFICERS, AND I TURN 16 AND STARTED DRIVING AROUND OUR COMMUNITY AND STARTED MEETING A WHOLE LOT OF OTHERS, BETWEEN GROWING UP HERE, GOING ON COLLEGE IN THE SOUTH, DRYING IN FLORIDA, GEORGIA, MISSISSIPPI, I RAN FOR OFFICE AS ONE OF PROBABLY RELATIVELY FEW ELECTED OFFICIALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE PULLED OVER FOR DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

IT'S BEEN A HALLMARK OF OUR ADMINISTRATION.

WHEN WE CAN SEE THE PEOPLE WHO WE HIRE, THE PEOPLE WE PAY, THE PEOPLE WE MOY AND SWEAR AN OATH TO PROTECT US, WHEN WE SEE THEM DOING HARM.

WE SEE THEM TAKING A HIGH OF LIKE THAT IN SUCH A BLATANT WAY FROM SOMEBODY WHO SHOULD BE ALIVE TODAY.

AND NOBODY BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT WHO THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR.

ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SETTING UP WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE AMERICAN DREAM.

WHO IS IT FOR?

40% OF AMERICANS HAVE SEEN THEIR JOBS DISAPPEAR IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS.

YET THE STOCK MARKET IS RALLYING.

SO THOSE MESSAGES WE SEND TO URBAN AMERICA, TO NEW AMERICANS, PEOPLE OF COLOR EVERY DAY, WE'RE BUILDING SOMETHING INCREDIBLE.

WE'RE BUILDING SOMETHING HUGE, SOMETHING STRONG.

AND YOU'RE NOT A PART OF IT.

THAT'S OFFENSIVE.

IT IS FRUSTRATING AND WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE ANGER UNTIL THAT CHANGES ON A WHOLESALE LEVEL.

NOT TO MENTION, THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE HEAVY, HEAVY BURDEN THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND MINORITIES ARE BEARING IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF DEAD IN THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.

I WANT TO READ SOMETHING TO YOU.

IT IS A SHORT FILM THAT HAS BEEN PRODUCED BY PBS I KNOW WHAT SOME COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS.

AND IT SAYS, GET HOME SAFELY.

TO WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE 16, DRIVING AROUND AND YOU HAD TO BE SO CAREFUL.

WE HEAR THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN FROM YOUNG BLACK MEN AND THEIR PARENTS WHO TRY TO TELL THEM HOW TO BEHAVE IF CONFRONTED BY POLICE.

I THINK IT BEARS READING AGAIN.

BE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL WHEN STOPPED BY POLICE.

KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLOSED.

REMEMBER YOUR GOAL IS TO GET HOME SAFELY.

IF YOU FEEL YOUR RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED, YOU AND YOUR PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPLAIN.

DON'T IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GET IN AN ARGUMENT WITH POLICE.

REMEMBER EVERYTHING CAN BE USED AGAINST YOU.

DONAL RUN EVEN IF YOU'RE AFRAID.

EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE YOU'RE INNOCENT, DO NOT RESIST ARREST.

OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

IT IS HARD PROBABLY FOR MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS EVERY BLACK CHILD, BLACK BOY, GETS THAT MESSAGE FROM THEIR PARENTS AT SOME POINT.

IT IS REALLY HARD FOR ME EVEN TO READ IT.

THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

I TOLD YOU ALREADY, MY FATHER IS A RETIRED ST. PAUL POLICE OFFICER.

HE SPENT YEARS IN OUR CITY'S INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION.

MAY FATHER PUBLISHED A BOOK A COUPLE YEARS AGO ON THE EXACT SAME TOPIC.

HOW TO SURVIVE THESE POLICE STOPS.

UNAFFORDABLY, THAT IS A REALITY WE HAVE TO TEACH OURSELVES AND OUR CHILDREN.

I HAVE TO TEACH MY CHILDREN KNOWING, WHEN THEY SEE SOMEONE WHO IS A POLICE OFFICER, THEY'RE THERE TO HELP.

A PROTECTED SERVANT.

I HAVE TO TEACH THOSE REALITIES AND THEY LOOK AT ME AND WANT TO KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THAT BALANCE.

AND OF COURSE, THERE IS IN HARD AND FAST RULE THAT I CAN GIVE THEM.

IT IS HEART BREAKING.

IN THE YEAR 2020, WE HAVE TO TEACH THOSE LESSONS TO OUR CHILDREN.

WE HAVE TO SHARE WITH OUR CHILDREN THE VAST ARRAY OF PERILS THAT EXIST OUT THIS AND TIPTOE AROUND ALL THOSE LAND MINES.

SO VERY, VERY FINALLY, I WANT TO ASK YOU WHETHER YOU TAKE ANY HOPE FROM WHAT YOUR ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID TODAY ABOUT STRUCTURAL CHANGE.

TAKE A LISTEN.

I THINK WE'LL DO SOME REAL CHANGING.

WE WON'T JUST FIX THE WINDOWS AND SWEEP UP THE GLASS.

WE'LL FIX THE BROKEN, SHATTERED SOCIETY.

THAT LEAVES SO MANY PEOPLE BEHIND BASED ON THEIR HISTORICAL LEGACY OF BEING IN BONDAGE AND SERVITUDE, SECOND CLASS CITIZENSHIP, AND NOW FRAUGHT WITH DISPARITIES FROM EVERYTHING FROM INKARS RAGS TO HOUSING TO WAGES TO EVERYTHING ELSE.

A TALL ORDER, MR. MAYOR.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE?

I THINK I THINK REQUIRED, MANDATORY ON TWO ORDERS.

ONE WITH REGARD TO THE UNREST WE'RE SEEING, WITH REGARD TO THE FRUSTRATION AROUND THE GEORGE FLOYD KILLING.

WE HAVE TWO TASKS.

ONE IS TO ADDRESS THE HOW.

THAT ANGER IS VERY PREDICTABLE.

IT IS MANUFACTURING IN SOME REALLY DESTRUCTIVE WAYS, TO RETRAUMATIZE THE SAME COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT WE'LL BE STUCK IN A VICIOUS CYCLE UNTIL WE ADDRESS THE WHY PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND AND ADDRESS WHY PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING.

I TOLD A LOCAL REPORTER 87.

WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE WHY.

I'VE ACTUALLY STOPPED USING THE TERM RECOVERY.

I DON'T THINK RECOVERY IS WHAT WE NEED.

RECOVERY IS SOMETHING THAT YOU DO TO GET BACK TO A PREVIOUS STATE.

IF WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET BACK TO WHERE WE WERE IN JANUARY, WE'RE GETTING BACK TO THE STARTING LINE OF ALL AS A RESULTER IN BILLS THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

WHEN PEOPLE CAN'T TAKE A BEING OFF WORK TO CARE FOR A SICK CHILD, OR RECOVER FROM AN ILLNESS, PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD A HOME, CAN'T AFFORD TO GO TO THE DOCTOR WHEN THEY THINK THEY HAVE SYMPTOMS, WE'RE ALL AT RISK.

THAT'S THE GREATEST THREAT TO OUR INTERNAL SECURITY.

AND WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT NOT RECOVERING TO WHERE WE WERE.

WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT REBUILDING A TOTAL ECONOMIC RECONSTRUCTION OF THE WAY OUR AMERICAN PEOPLE INACT WITH OUR ECONOMY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

> NOW AFTER A TURBULENT WEEK AMIDST THE ONGOING CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.

WHILE GALLERIES AND MUSEUMS MAY BE SHUT, ARTISTS ARE USING THIS TIME IN CONFINEMENT TO CREATE AND INSPIRE.

ERIC FISCHL'S WORK INCLUDES AMERICAN HULA AND HE IS KNOWN FOR HIS WORK PORTRAYING SUBURBAN AMERICA, THE RELATIONSHIPS AND DYNAMICS BETWEEN PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES.

ERIC FISCHL, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

LET ME START BY ASKING YOU, YOU'RE NOT IMMUNE TO THIS TERRIBLE TRAGEDY GOING ON IN MINNESOTA.

AND YOU'VE SPOKEN ABOUT IT AT LEAST IN OUR CONVERSATION.

AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU HOW YOU FEEL YOUR ROLE IS AS AN ARTIST IN TERMS OF TRYING TO CREATE SOME KIND OF ORDER IN TIMES OF CHAOS LIKE THIS.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THE QUESTION YOU ASKED IS, ONE THAT I THINK ALL ARTISTS ARE DEALING WITH.

TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BALANCE BETWEEN THE NECESSARY INTERNAL LIFE OF AN ARTIST WITH THE REALITIES OF ANY GIVEN MOMENT, WHETHER PLEASURABLE OR IN THIS CASE, ABSOLUTELY TRAUMATIC ON SO MANY LEVELS.

AND I DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE AN ANSWER TO IT.

I JUST HAVE A DISCIPLINE THAT I TRY TO UTILIZE IN MY STUDIO TO BREAK THINGS DOWN INTO SMALLER AND SMALLER PIECES.

REARRANGE THEM, PUT THEM INTO SOME KIND OF ORDER.

WHEN I REASSEMBLE, IT FEELS FOR A BROEF MOMENT THAT I MADE SENSE OF THE WORLD.

WELL, THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND IT ALSO BUILDS ON A SOUND BYTE.

I THINK FROM PRESIDENT KENNEDY, 1962, AND HE CAN TALKING ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE ARTS.

LET'S JUST PLAY THIS AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT.

BEHIND THE STORM OF DAILY CONFLICT AND CRISIS, THE DRAMATIC CONFRONTATIONS, THE TUMULT OF POLITICAL STRUGGLE, THE POET, THE ARTIST, THE MUSICIAN, CONTINUES THE QUIET WORK OF CENTURIES.

BUILDING BRIDGES AND EXPERIENCE BETWEEN PEOPLE, REMINDING MAN OF THE UNIVERSALITY OF HIS EXPERIENCE AND HIS AFFAIRS, AND REMINDING HIM THAT THE FORCES THAT UNITE ARE DEEPER THAN THOSE THAT DIVIDE.

IT IS REALLY POWERFUL, THAT, ERIC FISCHL.

WHAT HE SAID AT THE PEND THE FORCES UNITE ARE DEEPER THAN THE FORCES THAT DIVIDE.

THAT WAS IN 1962.

I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT BUT ALSO HIS FOCUS ON THE VITAL NECESSITY OF ARTISTS LIKE YOURSELF?

I CERTAINLY WANT TO BELIEVE IT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE IS A KIND OF OPTIMISM THAT HE EXPRESSES.

IT COMES FROM A BELIEF THAT WE CAN ALL BE BETTER PEOPLE.

AND PART OF BEING A BETTER PERSON HAS TO DO WITH A KIND OF SELF-IMPROVEMENT.

AN EVOLUTION, IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, IN TERMS OF MORAL RESPONSIBLE, REFINEMENT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

ALL THE ATTRIBUTES OF THAT HAVE BEEN SO DISCREDITED OVER THE YEARS, THAT IT IS SEEN AS AN ELITIST NOTION, AND WHILE THEY SAID THAT, THEY'VE ERODED PUBLIC EDUCATION TO THE POINT WHERE IT IS HARDER AND HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY SUSS OUT THE SUBTLETIES AND 92 NUANCES.

SO THIS IS A PICTURE, AN ACTUAL NEW PICTURE.

THERE IS A PAINTING THAT SHOWED LIBERTY.

AND IT IS REALLY POWERFUL.

IT JUST SHOWS THE BODY LANGUAGE.

HOW YOU CAN HAVE THESE POLITICAL AND ARTISTIC THEMES THAT TRANSCEND CENTURIES AND MEDIUMS FROM A PAINTING TO A PICTURE.

AND I KNOW YOU ARE SITTING IN YOUR STUDIO IN FRONT OF ONE OF YOUR OWN PAINTINGS.

AND IT IS CALLED LATE AMERICA TWO.

AND I WANT TO YOU DESCRIBE WHEN YOU PAINTED IT, IT IS VERY POWERFUL WITH A MOTHER HOLDING A CHILD WRAPPED IN THE AMERICAN FLAG.

YEAH.

A PAINTING I DID A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

THE START OF THE NEWS OF THE PANDEMIC, COUPLED WITH A LOT OF CONTINUING ANXIETY, FEARS, ET CETERA, THAT WE'VE BEEN FACING.

BOTH ON AN ENVIRONMENTAL LEVEL AND ON A POLITICAL LEVEL, ET CETERA.

AND I JUST FOUND MYSELF WONDERING, WHAT COULD I POSSIBLY SAY TO A CHILD AT THAT EDGE OF NOTHINGNESS WHICH IS WHAT WE SEEM TO BE HURDLING TOWARD.

I THINK THERE'S AN UNDERLYING CURRENT THAT WE LIVE IN A KIND OF FLOW TOWARD TRUE DISTOPIA.

SO IT IS LIKE TRYING TO PUT MYSELF IN THAT PLACE.

AND I THINK A MOTHER'S EMBRACE IS STILL HOLDS, OR SHOULD HOLD, AS A POWERFUL SYMBOL OF CARE, OF NURTURING, AS WELL AS VULNERABILITY IN AND OF HERSELF.

I CHOSE A MOTHER EMBRACING A CHILD AS OPPOSED TO A MAN.

AND THEN ANOTHER COLOSSAL WOMAN YOU PAINTED, YOUR LATEST IS AMERICAN HULA.

AND THAT IS ALSO, I MEAN, IT IS VERY FULL OF ENERGY AND IT IS KIND OF, I THINK YOU SKRIBLDS IT, OR IT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS TAKING ON THE PROPORTIONS, AND I WANT YOU TO DESCRIBE IF WHAT YOU WERE THINKING, THE ENERGY, HOW YOU CAME TO THAT MARCH FIGURE AFTER TRYING SEVERAL DIFFERENT I GUESS, BODILY FORMS FOR THIS WORK.

WELL, YEAH.

I THINK YOUR VIEWERS ARE GOING TO FIND OUT THAT AT LEAST THIS ARTIST DOESN'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING WHILE THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

SO I STARTED THIS PAINING, AMERICAN HULA, NOT AS A PAINTING WITH A HULA HOOP BUT AS ANOTHER WOMAN DANCING.

I STARTED WITH IT THE OPTIMISM WITH A SENSE OF AMERICAN, A SENSE OF JOY.

I PAINTED HER UP TO A POINT WHERE I BEGAN TO FEEL THAT SOMETHING WAS MISSING.

SO I GAVE HER A FRIEND.

I INTRODUCED THE WOMAN WITH THE HULA HOOP FIRST AS A SKETCH, AND WHEN THE HULA HOOP WOMAN CAME IN, THE DANCING WOMAN NO LONGER FELT NECESSARY.

WHY, I WAS FOLLOWING AN INTUITIVE THREAD, AND WHY THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO ME, I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW.

BUT I HAVE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS TO RECOGNIZE IN MY PROCESS THAT IT IS SOMETHING IN THE PAINTING STOPS TALKING TO YOU, IT IS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T BELONG THERE.

IT IS ALSO VERY BIG.

IF YOU LOOK AT IT, IT IS ALMOST LIKE THE DOMINANCE OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT MOTIVATED YOU.

YOU'VE DONE IT RIGHT NOW IN THE MIDST, THE HEIGHT OF THIS PANDEMIC.

YEAH.

HER MONUMENT, THE PAGING IS NOT GIGANTIC.

IT IS SIX FEET TALL OR SOMETHING.

SHE'S A GOOD SIZE BUT SHE'S NOT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO OTHER REFERENCE TO MAKE HER FEEL AS MONUMENTAL AS SHE ACTUALLY FEELS.

BUT SHE DEFINITELY FEELS LARGE.

SHE FEELS LIKE SHE'S MOVING VERY SLOWLY, LIKE I WOULD IMAGINE A GIANT WALKING THROUGH THE LANDSCAPE IS.

AND SO SHE TAKES ON THE MASK, THE PHYSICALITY OF ALL OF THE TURBULENCE THAT WAS LEADING UP TO THAT BUT ALSO, THERE IS A CONTRADICTION.

I THINK SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYFUL, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

AND YET, IT DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY.

IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE DONE THIS KIND OF WORK IN TIMES OF TRAUMA.

UP WITH OF YOUR MOST I SUPPOSE CONTROVERSIAL PIECES WAS CALLED TUMBLING WOMEN.

YOU DID IT TO COMMEMORATE THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THOUGHT WOULD IT DO AND WHAT IT ENDED UP.

YEAH.

THANK YOU FOR ASKING ABOUT THAT.

I FELT, LIKE EVERYBODY WHO WITNESSED 9/11, CERTAINLY IN AMERICA, THE TRAUMA WAS GIGANTIC.

I WAS WATCHING IT ON TELEVISION THE WAY MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE.

SO I LIVE IN NEW YORK.

I WAS NOT THERE AT THE TIME.

AND I FOUND MYSELF FEELING IMMEDIATELY WHILE WATCHING IT, IN THE CHAOS OF THE MOMENT, I FELT, IF ARTISTS ARE NEEDED, NOW IS THE MOMENT.

THE REASON I FELT THAT IS BECAUSE IT IS THE QUALITY AND THE SKILL SET OF ARTISTS TO BE ABLE TO ORDER CHAOS IN A WAY THAT IT MAKES SOME KIND OF SENSE TO US.

WE NEED A FOOT HOLD, WE NEED LANGUAGE, ET CETERA.

SO I SET OUT TO TRY TO FIND A WAY TO EXPRESS ARTISTICALLY THE FEELINGS THAT I HAD, AND THE THOUGHTS THAT BID THIS TRAUMA.

THE ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME IMMED IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE HORRIBLE EVENT WAS HOW QUICKLY THE MOURNING LANGUAGE, THE GRIEVING LANGUAGE TURNED TO THE LOSS OF ARCHITECTURE.

THE REASON WAS NO ONE COULD QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW 3,000 PEOPLE DIED BUT THERE WERE NO BODIES.

AND SO WE COULDN'T HAVE CLOSURE ON IT.

WE CAPITOL TURN IT INTO THE REAL PHYSICAL TRAGEDY THAT IT WAS.

SO I FELT THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO BRING THE BODY BACK INTO THE MOURNING PROCESS, IT WASN'T THE ARCHITECTURE.

THAT CAN BE REBUILT AND IT HAS BEEN.

IT WAS THE PEOPLE THAT CAN'T COME BACK THAT WERE DESTROYED, MURDERED, SO I SET OUT TO DO THAT.

I THINK EVERYONE RECOGNIZED THAT THE IMAGES OF THE PEOPLE WHO FELL OR JUMPED FROM THE TOWERS WAS AN IMAGE OF EXPRESSING THE MOST PROFOUND AND MOST TERRIFYING SITUATION, THAT THESE VICTIMS FACE, THAT THEY WOULD CHOOSE ONE CERTAIN FORM OF DEATH OVER ANOTHER.

IN THIS COUNTRY, WE COULDN'T TOLERATE SEEING IT.

SO THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE CENSORED IMMEDIATELY.

BUT ALL OF US WHO SAW IT, ONE OF THEM, OR ANY OF THEM, KNEW THAT WE WOULD NEVER UNSEE THAT IMAGE AGAIN.

SO I WANTED TO MAKE THAT PART OF THE SCULPTURE THAT I WAS MAKING.

BUT I DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE A GRAPHIC HEAD CRACKING KIND OF EVENT.

I WAS NOT INTERESTED IN THAT KIND OF TERRIBLE REALISM.

WHAT I WAS INTERESTED IN WAS TRYING TO FIND A WAY OF ARTICULATING HOW NOT ONLY THE TRAGEDY OF PEOPLE DYING, BUT ALSO, THAT THE COUNTRY ITSELF HAD BEEN THROWN OFF ITS CENTER.

AND THE IMAGE OF TUMBLE WEED CAME TO ME, AND THIS FEELING OF LIKE, A CONSTANT SORT OF TUMBLING, BLOWING, BLOWING WITH THE WIND STATE.

THAT IT HITS SOMETHING AND STOPS MOMENTARILY UNTIL THE WIND MOVES IT ON.

THAT FELT VERY MUCH LIKE AMERICA THEN.

AND I THINK EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW IS ACTUALLY A RESULT OF 9/11.

BECAUSE 9/11 BROUGHT US TO A PLACE IN TERMS OF HOW WE SEE OURSELVES AS AMERICANS, THAT WE DID NOT KNOW.

YEAH, YEAH.

AND IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN TOO MUCH FOR THE PUBLIC BECAUSE FAMOUSLY, THE SCULPTURE WAS MOVED FROM ITS PUBLIC EXHIBITION AND MOVED BACK INSIDE.

IT IS VERY SIMILAR NOW.

WE HAVE TO WRAP BUT WE DON'T REALLY EVEN SEE THE PICTURES OF THE GREATEST VICTIMS OF THE CYRUS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL HAPPENING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AS WELL.

THANK YOU.

SO FOR SHARING YOUR PASSION WITH US TONIGHT.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TIME FOR.

THANK YOU.

SO.

AMIDST THESE TROUBLING EVENTS, A PLACE THAT USED TO BE A REFUGE FOR MANY IS OUT OF REACH AS THE PANDEMIC HAS CLOSED MANY ART VENUES.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS BRINGING THEATER TO YOU.

OSKAR EUSTIS WITH HITS LIKE HAMILTON AND SO MANY MORE.

HE'S MADE A ZOOM-INSPIRED DRAMA CALLING WHAT DO WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT?

IT'S AVAILABLE FOR FREE ONLINE.

HE TELLS MICHEL MARTIN WHY THIS MIGHT BE A RETURN TO THE ESSENCE OF THE CRAFT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

IT'S A PLEASURE.

AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, YOU PLANNED A BIG BASH FOR THE PUBLIC ATHLETE ORDER JUNE 1st.

CAN YOU JUST TELL ME ABOUT IT?

AND OBVIOUSLY IT WILL BE VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE KINDS OF BENEFIT YOU'RE USED TO PUTTING ON.

THE BAD NEWS, IT IS A VIRTUAL BENEFIT WEST CAN'T ALL GATHER IN THE GREATEST PARK IN THE WORLD, CENTRAL PARK.

THE GOOD NEWS IS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, THE GALA WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY.

IT IS FREE.

YOU CAN JUST GO TO THE WEBSITE AND LOGON AND WATCH SOME OF THE GREATEST STARS OF OUR TIME SING, REMINISCE ABOUT THE PUBLIC, HELP DRUM UP SUPPORT NOT ONLY SUPPORT FOR THE PUBLIC BUT THE FEELING OF SOLIDARITY.

SO I'M ACTUALLY THRILLED ABOUT THE REACH THIS WILL HAVE.

NOT TO BE CRUDE ABOUT IT, HOW WILL YOU MAKE ANY MONEY OFF IT?

WE'LL ASK PEOPLE TO CONTRIBUTE.

WE'VE BEEN ASKING PEOPLE BEFORE THE GALA AND I HAVE TO SAY, THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARY.

PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT IS VALUE.

FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT THE PUBLIC IS ALL ABOUT, TELL US ABOUT THE PUBLIC THEATER AND WHY DOES IT MATTER SO MUCH?

I THINK MANY PEOPLE MIGHT REMEMBER IT.

THAT IT HAS STAGED SORT OF A PLAY OF A GENERATION, HAMILTON.

THE FIRST STAGE AT THE PUBLIC.

WHAT ELSE?

THE PUBLIC IS AT ITS CORE, A DEMOCRAT IIC INSTITUTION.

THE IDEA IS THAT THE PUBLIC BELONGS TO EVERYBODY.

WE MAKE THEATER OF, BY, AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

AND WE MANIFEST THAT IN A WHOLE VARIETY OF WAYS.

AND THE VARIETY IS THE ESSENCE OF IT.

WE DO FREE SHAKESPEARE IN THE PARK.

OUR FLAGSHIP WHERE WE GIVE AWAY THE GREATEST WRITER AND THE GREATEST ACTORS AWAY FOR FREE EVERY NIGHT, ALL SUMMER.

WE DO MOBILE THEATER AROUND ALL FIVE BURROUGHS.

WE DO HAMILTON, CHORUS LINE, ALL CAME OUT OF THE THEATER AND ALL ARE ABOUT TURNING THE STAGE OVER TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T HAD VOICE BEFORE IN OUR CULTURE.

TO AMERICA SURE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE OBJECTS OF HISTORY GET TO BE THE SUBJECTS OF HISTORY.

AND THAT IMPULSE INFUSES EVERYTHING WE DO.

PEOPLE HAVE THIS IDEA THAT THEATER IS NOT SOMETHING THAT BELONGS TO EVERYBODY.

THEATER, BROADWAY, PROFESSIONAL THEATER IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY EXPENSIVE.

THAT IT IS ONLY FOR THE FEW.

WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING IS ALL TOO OFTEN EXACTLY THE CASE IN OUR CULTURE.

IT WAS DELIBERATELY SWINGING AGAINST THE CURRENT.

JOE WAS A BROOKLYN BOY WHO GREW UP WITH ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE.

HE'D BEEN IN THE NAVY AND BECOME A CRAZY SHAKESPEARE FANATIC WITHOUT EVER GOING TO COLLEGE.

EVEN THE POST-WAR OPTIMISM, THE IDEA THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY SHARE, BE EQUAL, THE GI BILL AND LET EVERYONE GO TO COLLEGE, JANE ADAMS, WE COULD PROTECT OUR CITIES, WE COULD MAKE THEATER AS MUCH OF A BIRTH RIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE IN NEW YORK AS THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES.

THE PUBLIC LIBRARY HAD TO FIGHT ITS BATTLES 200 YEARS AGO.

THE IDEA OF A FREE LENDING LIBRARY WAS RADICAL AT ONE TIME.

IT WAS PART OF AGAIN A DEMOCRATIC EXPANSION IN OUR CULTURE.

FOR THE 65-YEAR SINCE, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO HOLD DOWN THAT CORNER.

MAKE THAT ARGUMENT.

AND NOT JUST BY GIVING THINGS AWAY FOR FREE BUT BY LETTING PEOPLE PLAYING IT THEMSELVES.

BY BLURRING THE DISTINCTION.

AT THE SAME TIME PROVING THAT DOING SOMETHING FOR FREE DOESN'T MEAN IT SBLT THE BEST.

DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT IS CHEAP.

IT MEANS IT CAN TAKE THE GREATEST ACTORS, MERLE STREEP, AL PACINO, JAMES EARL JONES, AND OFFER THEM UP FOR FREE AS WELL.

YOU'LL GAVE A TED TALK ABOUT THAT IN 2018 SAYING THEATER WAS ESSENTIAL TO DEMOCRACY.

YOU SAID THAT THEATER IS THE ESSENTIAL ART FORM OF DEMOCRACY.

WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

WELL, PARTLY WE HAVE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE FOR IT.

THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY, AND THE CREATION OF THE THEATER BEGAN IN THE SAME DECADE AT THE END OF THE SIXTH CENTURY BC IN THE SAME CITY, ATHENS.

THE IDEA THAT POWER SHOULD FLOW FROM THE PEOPLE TO THE TOP.

NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

AND IN THAT SAME DECADE, DRAMA STARTED.

DRAMA INVOLVES ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO BE A SUCCESSFUL DEMOCRACY.

IT INVOLVES THE IDEA THAT THERE IS ALL THE CONFLICTS OF DRAWL.

ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER.

SO WHAT THE THEATER POSITS, THEATER IS NOT FROM JUST ONE PERSON'S VISION.

IT ASKS YOU TO IMAGINE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE FEELING LIKE.

TO EMPATHIZE WITH CHARACTERS, TO PUT YOURSELF IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S SHOES.

THAT'S NECESSARY FOR DEMOCRACY TO WORK.

SO THE BUILDING BLOCKS, THE FORM OF THEATER ARE EXERCISES IN CITIZENSHIP.

WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT THAT THEATERS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK, REALLY THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, WOULD BE SHUT DOWN?

TWO THINGS I WANT TO SAY.

ONE IS FROM AN HIS, TO DIFFERENCE.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THEATERS HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN BY EPIDEMICS.

SHAKESPEARE'S THEATER, THE GLOBE IN HONORED, WAS SHUT DOWN FOR AT LEAST THREE SEASONS BY THE PLAGUE IN LONDON.

WHAT DID SHAKESPEARE DO?

HE WENT AWAY AND WROTE THE SONNETS, WHICH I'M GLAD HE DID, AND HE DID A LOT OF WORK ON THE PLAYS.

WE'VE SURVIVED PLAGUES BEFORE.

I SPENT MOST OF THE FIRST FEW WEEKS KIND OF REELING.

I WAS IN THE HOSPITAL.

I HAD COVID WHEN THE THEATER SHUT DOWN.

WHEN I CAME OUT, I WAS STILL RECOVERING AND REELING FROM IT.

THE FIRST COUPLE WEEKS I WAS SAYING, WE WON'T BECOME A FILM STUDY.

WE'RE NOT A TELEVISION PRODUCTION.

WE WON'T BE DOING THEATER UNTIL WE CAN ALL COME BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

THEN AFTER A COUPLE WEEKS, I REALIZED HOW PATHETICALLY DEFEATIST THAT WAS.

WHAT I REALIZED IS THAT IT IS OUR JOB, OUR OBLIGATION, OUR MORAL OBLIGATION, TO TRY TO FULFILL OUR MISSION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THAT HISTORY THROWS AT US.

SO WE'RE ACTUALLY ALREADY DID ONE PLAY WRITTEN DURING COVID, WHICH IS WHAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT.

IT IS STILL AVAILABLE THROUGH THE END OF JUNE ON THE PUBLIC'S WEBSITE.

AND WE ARE PLANNING TO ROLL OUT AN ENTIRE SEASON FEATURING DIGITAL PLAYS ON PUBLIC TELEVISION, PUBLIC RADIO, PUBLIC LIBRARIES, AND STRIVE TO DO WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, WHICH IS CREATE.

IF WE HAVE TO CREATE UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, THAT'S DIFFICULT BUT WE HAVE TO TRANSCEND OUR AUDIENCE.

DID I HEAR YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE IN THE HOSPITAL WITH COVID YOURSELF?

YES.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

IT WAS VERY EARLY ON.

I WAS HOSPITALIZED IN MID-MARCH.

I DIDN'T KNOW I HAD IT.

I JUST KNOW THAT I FELT REALLY, REALLY BAD.

I WAS SURPRISED THEY PUT ME IN THE HOSPITAL.

IT WAS A GOOD THING THEY DID BECAUSE THERE WERE SOME HEART COMPLICATIONS.

IT WAS GOOD THEY WERE HELPING ME WITH.

I SUSPECTED IT MIGHT BE COVID.

BUT HERE'S GIVING YOU A SNAP SHOT OF NEW YORK IN MID-MARCH.

THEY DID NOT HAVE THE TEST FOR COVID AT THE HOSPITAL I WAS IN.

THEY COULDN'T TEST ME.

WHAT THEY DID WAS TEST ME FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.

AND IT WAS NEGATIVE.

SO WE ASSUMED AT THAT TIME IT WAS COVID AND SINCE THEN I'VE TESTED POSITIVE FOR THE ANTIBODIES OF COVID.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, COULD I TELL THE HOSPITAL I WAS IN, IT WAS ALREADY BEING OVERWHEN HE TOLD.

MID-MARCH, THEY WERE ALREADY NOT BEHAVING LIKE A HOSPITAL I'VE SEEN BEFORE.

AND IT JUST BROUGHT HOME TO ME THE TREMENDOUS ABSENCE OF PREPARATION ON THE PART OF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THE TREMENDOUS LACK OF FORETHOUGHT AND LACK OF SUPPORT THAT ONLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN MOBILIZE.

DOES THEATER IN YOUR WAY HAVE SOME ROLE IN HELPING US ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MOMENT COLLECTIVELY?

I MEAN, WE ARE USED TO SEEING THE PRESIDENT LEAD US IN NATIONAL MOURNING IN IMPORTANT MOMENTS FOR US.

THE THEATER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS OR ART IN GENERAL HAS SOMETHING TO SAY IN THE ABSENCE OF LEADERSHIP.

WELL, EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW AND PRODUCING HAS GRIEF AS ITS BASELINE.

BECAUSE I THINK WHAT YOU'RE PLAYING TO IS A HUGE NEED THAT WE HAVE AS A COUNTRY.

THAT WE ARE NOT ABLE TO DO RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE NOT ABLE TO GRIEVE APPROPRIATELY.

A, WE'RE BUSY FIGHTING THE EPIDEMIC BUT ALSO THE STRANGE PARTISAN BATTLE ABOUT FIGHTING THE EPIDEMIC.

AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED SPACES TO MOURN.

WE'VE ALL LOST PEOPLE.

WE'RE ALL SCARED OF LOSING MORE AND WE WILL LOSE MORE PEOPLE.

AND YET THERE IS BEEN NO PLACE, NO SITE, NO VENUE OF TIME WHEN WE GET TO EXPERIENCE THAT GRIEF.

BUT WE WILL BE EXPERIENCING IT AND WE'LL BE EXPERIENCING IT TOGETHER IN A HEALTHY AND CATHARTIC WAY OR IN AN ISOLATED, DAMAGING, MAYBE SELF-DESTRUCTIVE WAYS.

I THINK THE THEATER --

WHAT ABOUT YOU?

HOW DO YOU ENVISION HELPING US THROUGH THIS?

WELL, LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

THE ONE PLAY THAT WAS PRODUCED SO FAR, IT WAS WHAT DO WE NEED TO TALK WITH, A ZOOM PLAY THAT HE WROTE IN LATE MARCH AND WE PREMIERED IN LATE APRIL, OR MID MAY.

AND IT WAS ABOUT GRIEVING.

IT WAS A WORK OF ART, NOT AS A MEMORANDUM.

SO IT IS SUBTLE BUT VERY, VERY MUCH ABOUT GRIEF.

TO MY ASTONISHMENT, THE LIVE BROADCAST WAS SEEN BY PEOPLE IN 17 COUNTRIES AND 40 STATES.

AND UP TO NOW, WE'VE HAD 60,000 VIEWERS.

WHAT THAT MADE ME REALIZE WAS THE ADVANTAGE OF THIS VIRTUAL THEATER.

THE INSTANT GEOGRAPHIC SPREAD WE HAVE.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, PEOPLE, EUROPE AND ASIA AND ON THE WEST COAST.

PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THE SAME THING IN NEW YORK ARE WATCHING.

SO IT WAS TRULY A NATIONAL, INTERNATIONAL THING.

AND BOY, THAT SPARKED OFF SOME EXCITEMENT.

WE MAY BE SACRIFICING SOME IMMEDIACY OF US GATHERING TOGETHER, BUT MAYBE THAT'S REPLACED BY THE BREADTH OF OUR REACH.

AND MAYBE WE CAN DO STUFF THAT WILL REALLY RECEIVE BEYOND OUT TO A BROADER AUDIENCE.

I HOPE SO.

PUM THEATER HOLDS UP A VISION TO AMERICA THAT SHOWS A SENSE OF WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT FUTURE PLAYS WILL TELL US ABOUT THIS TIME?

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WILL BE MAZE ABOUT THE DWIGSS AND THE INEQUALS REVEALED UNDER THIS STRESS.

I HOPE THERE WILL BE PLAYS ABOUT HUMAN AN.

I REREAD THE PLAGUE OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

IT IS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL DISSECTION OF THE WAY SPECIFICALLY A PLAGUE, AN EPIDEMIC, CAN BRING OUT THE BEST IN SOME PEOPLE.

AND I HOME THAT'S WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND I HOPE WE HAVE MAZE CELEBRATING THAT.

THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.

THANK YOU.

I REALLY ENJOYED IT.

INDEED, ON THIS DAY ESPECIALLY, MAY ART BE A CATALYST TO BRING ALL THESE DIVISIONS RIPPING APART THE FABRIC OF OUR SOCIETY.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

REMEMBER, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & CO.' ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.