George Floyd Atty: Election Has Been a Referendum on Race

> IN THIS ELECTION, TOP OF THE AGENDA FOR MANY PEOPLE HAS BEEN THE RECKONING FOR RACIAL INJUSTICE.

EARLY EXIT POLLS SHOW IT WAS A CONCERN FOR ONE IN FIVE VOTERS.

IT'S NO SURPRISE IN A YEAR THAT'S SEEN SUPPORT FOR BLACK LIVES MATTER SURGE AFTER POLICE KILLINGS OF UNARMED AFRICAN-AMERICANS, PEOPLE LIKE GEORGE FLOYD AND BREONNA TAYLOR, AHMAUD ARBERY.

ONE MAN AT THE HEART OF ALL THESE CASES IS CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY BEN CRUMP.

HE'S LAWYER FOR THE FAMILIES SEEKING JUSTICE.

HERE HE IS TALKING TO TO OUR MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT WHAT LIES AHEAD.

BEN CRUMP, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, MICHEL.

MANY PEOPLE WILL KNOW THAT YOU HAVE REPRESENTED FAMILY MEMBERS IN SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT, MOST PROMINENT POLICE VIOLENCE CASES THAT THE COUNTRY HAS SEEN IN RECENT YEARS.

IN THE SPIRIT OF FULL DISCLOSURE, I INTERVIEWED YOU SHORTLY AFTER YOU BECAME INVOLVED IN THE TRAYVON MARTIN CASE.

MY RECOLLECTION IS WHEN TRAYVON'S FATHER TRACY MARTIN FIRST CALLED YOU TO GET INVOLVED, YOU TOLD HIM, YOU DON'T NEED ME, YOU DON'T NEED ME.

AND I THINK MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT.

AND SO WHY DID YOU SAY THAT BACK THEN?

DID YOU HONESTLY -- YOU JUST BELIEVED THAT THE LAW WOULD PURSUE THE MATTER AGGRESSIVELY AND THAT YOU REALLY DIDN'T NEED TO GET INVOLVED?

AND WAS THAT A WAKE-UP CALL FOR YOU?

IN SOME WAYS IT WAS.

IN SOME WAYS WE KNEW THAT FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO GET EQUAL JUSTICES IN AMERICA, WE HAVE TO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND.

BUT WHAT I BELIEVE AS AN ATTORNEY, WE'RE OFFICERS OF THE COURT.

WE BELIEVE THAT THE SYSTEMS SHOULD WORK EQUALLY FOR ALL OF OUR CHILDREN.

AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAD AN UNARMED DEAD TEENAGER LYING ON THE GROUND AND THE SELF-PROFESSED KILLER WITH THE PROVERBIAL SMOKING GUN IN HIS HAND, I JUST SAID, THEY HAVE TO ARREST HIM, MICHEL, I COULD NOT SEE -- IF THIS WAS A WHITE KID, NOBODY COULD TELL ME THAT THE PERSONAL WOULDN'T BE ARRESTED.

I TOLD MR. MARTIN, AFTER HE EXPLAINED IT TO ME, YOU DON'T NEED ME, GIVE IT A COUPLE OF DAYS, I'M SURE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ARREST HIM.

AND, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVED THAT WITH EVERYTHING IN MY HEART BECAUSE THAT IS HOW THE SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.

TWO DAYS WENT BY.

MR. MARTIN CALLED ME BACK WITH THE SAME SOUND OF HEARTBROKENNESS.

I MEAN, IT WAS SUCH A SOUND, I STILL CAN'T ARTICULATE IT TODAY, MICHEL, BECAUSE SOMETIMES BLACK MEN GET A BAD KNOCK, SAYING THAT WE DON'T LOVE OUR CHILDREN.

IT WAS CLEAR FROM TRAYVON MARTIN'S FATHER THAT HE LOVED HIS SON WITH HIS WHOLE HEART AND HE WAS TELLING ME THEY SAID THEY WERE NOT GOING TO ARREST HIM BECAUSE OF THIS THING CALLED STAND YOUR GROUND, AND THAT IS WHEN I HAD TO MAKE THE DECISION TO SAY, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO ANSWER THE BAIL AND WE'RE GOING TO GO FIGHT FOR THIS LITTLE BLACK BOY WHO WAS WALKING HOME WITH A BAG OF SKITTLES AND A CAN OF ICED TEA WHEN A NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH -- I GUESS A NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH PATROLMAN PROFILED, PURSUED HIM, AND SHOT HIM IN THE HEART.

YOU'VE GOTTEN SOME REMARKABLE FINANCIAL SETTLEMENTS.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE REPORTED SETTLEMENT IN THE SHOOTING DEATH OF BREONNA TAYLOR IS THE LARGEST ON RECORD IN THAT CITY.

AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE SETTLEMENT IN THE MICHAEL BROWN CASE, IT WAS REPORTED THAT IT WAS ABOUT A MILLION, $1.5 MILLION, IN THE TRAYVON MARTIN CASE IT WAS ABOUT IN THE RANGE OF $1 MILLION.

AND THE SETTLEMENTS ARE ESCALATING.

SO THE FAMILIES WHO HAVE LOST LOVED ONES ARE RECEIVING THESE SETTLEMENTS.

BUT HAS ANYTHING CHANGED IN TERMS OF THE CONDUCT?

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT -- 'THE WASHINGTON POST,' FOR EXAMPLE, REPORTED THAT IN 2019 THERE WERE SOME 990 PEOPLE KILLED BY THE POLICE.

AND THE DATA ALSO INDICATES THAT WHILE AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND WHITES ARE EQUALLY LIKELY TO BE KILLED BY POLICE, THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO BE UNARMED WHEN THEY ARE KILLED BY THE POLICE.

I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S A JOURNEY TO JUSTICE, MICHEL.

YOU TAKE SOMETIMES ONE STEP FORWARD AND THEN ONE STEP BACK.

BUT THE JOURNEY CONTINUES.

AND IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS OVERNIGHT.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT FOR 401 YEARS, WE HAVE FACED SYSTEMATIC RACISM AND OPPRESSION HERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND I THINK ABOUT THE LESSONS AND THE HISTORY.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS TEN YEARS AFTER EMMETT TILL WAS KILLED THAT WE FINALLY GOT THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT PASSED EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS THE CATALYST FOR ALL THIS UPRISING.

AND I THINK TRAYVON MARTIN WAS THE CATALYST, YOU KNOW, NINE YEARS AGO, FOR THE UPRISING OF BLACK LIVES MATTER.

AND SO IT IS A PERPETUAL, CONSTANT STRUGGLE.

AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE FACT, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET RECORD SETTLEMENTS.

TAMIR RICE, $6 MILLION.

I THINK THAT IS ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT CITIES, IF THEY HAVE TO KEEP PAYING OUT THESE LARGE FINANCIAL ECONOMIC SETTLEMENTS, THAT AFFECT THEIR BUDGETS, THEN THEY WILL HIRE BETTER POLICE, THEY WILL GIVE BETTER IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING.

THEY WILL HAVE THEIR OFFICERS NOT SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER, WHEN IT'S UNARMED BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE, THEY WON'T BE CHOKING US TO DEATH, THEY WON'T BE BUSTING IN OUR HOUSES AT 1:00 IN THE MORNING, VIOLATING THE FOURTH AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION WITH THESE NO-KNOCK WARRANTS, AND A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS, MICHEL.

BUT ESSENTIALLY, IF WHAT YOU SAID WENT INTO QUESTION THAT REALLY STRUCK ME, BECAUSE I'VE ARGUED AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP AND ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR ON THAT ISSUE, WHEN THEY SAY THERE IS NO SYSTEMATIC RACISM IN AMERICA.

AND YOU HAVE ALL THE STATISTICS AND DATA THAT SHOW THAT'S NOT TRUE.

BUT THEY ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY, WELL, THE POLICE KILL MORE WHITE PEOPLE THAN THEY KILL BLACK PEOPLE.

THAT IS TRUE.

BLACK PEOPLE MAKE UP 13% OF THE POPULATION IN AMERICA.

WHITE PEOPLE MAKE UP 73% OF THE POPULATION IN AMERICA.

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ANYWHERE CLOSE, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT JUST ON THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE NUMBERS.

HOWEVER, IT'S THE CONTEXT.

I MEAN, WHEN WHITE PEOPLE ARE SHOT BY THE POLICE, IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT THEY ARE ARMED AND THEY ARE THREATENING.

BUT WHEN YOU SEE BLACK PEOPLE BEING SHOT BY THE POLICE, OFTENTIMES, IT'S LAQUAN McDONALD RUNNING AWAY, WATER SCOTT RUNNING AWAY.

GEORGE FLOYD, FACE DOWN, HANDCUFFED, BEING CHOKED.

ERIC GARNER BEING CHOKED.

TERRENCE CRUTCHER WALKING AWAY WITH HIS HANDS UP IN BROAD DAYLIGHT ON VIDEO IN TULSA, OKLAHOMA.

SOMEONE EATING ICE CREAM, WATCHING TV IN HIS APARTMENT WHEN THE POLICE ALLEGEDLY WENT TO THE WRONG APARTMENT.

CORY JONES, TALKING ON THE PHONE WITH A TOW TRUCK DRIVER WHEN POLICE COME AND SHOOT AND KILL HIM.

SANDRA BLAND, PAMELA TURNER.

THE SYSTEM IS NOT GETTING NEARLY ENOUGH ATTENTION.

OUTSIDE OF HOUSTON, ON THE GROUND, THE POLICE SHOOT FIVE TIMES AND KILL HER.

SO IF THESE INSTANCES, WHERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED, WHERE IT IS NOT THREATENING WHATSOEVER, BUT YET WE ARE STILL HAVING THESE EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLINGS BY THE POLICE ON BLACK AND BROWN BODIES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S HAPPENED IN RECENT YEARS THAT'S BEEN SPARKED IN PART BY THE EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLINGS OF BLACK PEOPLE AND KILLINGS BY WHITE VIGILANTES IS AN ENORMOUS SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT THAT IS PROBABLY THE LARGEST WE'VE SEEN IN DECADES.

THERE HAVE BEEN BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS ALL OVER THE WORLD.

THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU AT THIS MOMENT IS, ARE THEY HELPING OR ARE THEY HURTING?

BECAUSE THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT A BACKLASH IS BREWING IN PART BECAUSE SOME OF THESE PROTESTS, A VERY SMALL NUMBER OF THEM, BUT SOME OF THESE PROTESTS HAVE GOTTEN VIOLENT.

YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO FANCY MYSELF, MICHEL, AS A STUDENT OF HISTORY.

AND IN THE UNITED STATES, ALL THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, ANY TIME YOU HAVE SEEN OPPRESSED PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO RISE UP AGAINST THEIR OPPRESSORS AND ORGANIZE, MOBILIZE, AND STRATEGIZE WITHIN THE CONSTRUCTS OF THAT GOVERNMENT, WHERE THERE'S THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS HERE IN AMERICA, OR FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN OTHER PLACES, THE OPPRESSOR ALWAYS TRIES TO DEMONIZE THE MOVEMENT, TRIES TO CREATE A NARRATIVE THAT IT IS SOMETHING NEFARIOUS.

I THINK BY A LARGE NUMBER, THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS, THE FREEDOM PROTESTS, ALL THESE YOUNG PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER, JUSTICE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION, THEY'RE MARCHING, DEMONSTRATING.

AND MANY ARE NONVIOLENT.

AND OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF IT.

BUT YOU SEE THAT THERE IS THIS BACKLASH OF EXTREME VIOLENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE WITH THESE WHITE NATIONALISTS.

WHEN I THINK OF KENOSHA, WISCONSIN, THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE WALKING WITH ASSAULT WEAPONS.

AND THE THREE PROTESTERS WERE KILLED -- I'M SORRY, TWO PROTESTERS KILLED, THREE WERE SHOT.

AND THEY SAID IT WAS SELF-DEFENSE, WHEN THE WHITE NATIONAL SUPREMACIST OR WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM IN MICHIGAN WENT AND TOOK THE STATEHOUSE WITH ASSAULT WEAPONS, NOBODY PEPPER SPRAYED THEM.

NOBODY SHOT RUBBER BULLETS AT THEM.

NOBODY ARRESTED THEM.

AND SUBSEQUENTLY, IT WAS FOUND OUT THAT THERE WAS A KIDNAPPING PLOT TO GET THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN, WHITMER.

AND THEY TRIED TO DOWNPLAY THAT.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT WAS DISCOVERED FROM BLACK LIVES MATTER, WHAT THE NARRATIVE WOULD BE FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHAT THE NARRATIVE WOULD BE FROM ALL THESE CONSERVATIVE MEDIA OUTLETS?

BUT YET, WHEN IT IS REVERSED, THEY DOWNPLAY IT.

IN FACT I THINK SOMEBODY EVEN WENT AS FAR AS TO SAY THAT THEY COULD MAKE A CITIZENS ARREST AND THEN CALL IT KIDNAPPING WITH THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN.

SO IT REALLY IS THESE NARRATIVES.

YOU HAVE TO FIGHT IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.

AND OBVIOUSLY RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A PRESIDENT, CURRENTLY, WE DON'T KNOW FOR HOW MANY MORE MONTHS, BUT HE HAS SAID THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES, WHEN THE WHITE NATIONALISTS WERE MARCHING AND CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, SAYS THE JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US AND THEY WERE BURNING CROSSES.

AND HOW CAN YOU CONDONE THAT KIND OF HATRED, BUT YET THEY WANT TO ATTACK YOUNG BLACK PEOPLE FOR SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PROTESTING FOR OUR VERY LIVES.

AND I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY INTERESTING, THESE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SO CREATIVE, MICHEL, THEY HAVE A SIGN UP AND THOUGH SHOWED THAT PEOPLE WERE PROTESTING, DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC, TO OPEN BACK UP DISNEY WORLD.

I MEAN, THEY HAD PROTESTS LIKE THEY HAD IN MICHIGAN.

WHILE BLACK PEOPLE, WE'RE PROTESTING THAT WE JUST WANT TO LIVE.

THE QUESTION IS, AGAIN, DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'RE MAKING PROGRESS?

WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS.

WE'RE MAKING TREMENDOUS PROGRESS.

SO I NEVER, EVER WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK THAT THE BALL IS NOT MOVING FORWARD.

I THINK ABOUT BREONNA TAYLOR'S SETTLEMENT.

MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE RECORD AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WAS PAID OUT WAS THE FACT THAT WE GOT ALL THIS REFORM, THE FACT THAT THEY ABOLISHED NO-KNOCK WARRANTS IN LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY.

THE FACT THAT THEY CAME UP WITH A HOUSING INCENTIVE PROGRAM.

THEY HAVE THE POLICE LIVING IN THE CITY AND IN THE MINORITY COMMUNITIES THAT THEY POLICE WITH THE IDEA, IF YOU KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS, IT WON'T BE A LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION WHEN YOU INTERACT WITH THEM, AND YOU WON'T SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER.

ALSO, IN THE BREONNA TAYLOR SETTLEMENT, THEY HAD 12 SOCIAL WORKERS THAT THE CITY HIRED, AND EVERY TIME THERE IS A 911 CALL FOR A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENT, OR A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS INCIDENT, THAT SOCIAL WORKER WILL GO WITH THEM TO TRY TO DE-ESCALATE THE SITUATION VERSUS TO ESCALATE THE SITUATION.

AS WE ARE SEEING NOW, THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE HAS YET TO BE CONCLUDED, CONTROL OF THE SENATE IS STILL SORT OF HANGING IN THE BALANCE HERE BECAUSE ALL THE BALLOTS HAVE TO GET COUNTED.

AND YET THERE'S THIS ATMOSPHERE OF REAL SORT OF TENSION AND ANXIETY, YOU KNOW, THAT DURING ONE OF THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ASKED TO DENOUNCE KIND OF WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND HE DECLINED TO DO SO.

ON THE OTHER HAND, JOE BIDEN, THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, HAS COME IN FOR SOME CRITICISM FOR HIS PAST RECORD ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES.

THERE ARE SOME ON THE LEFT CRITICAL OF THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE, KAMALA HARRIS, FOR HER RECORD AS A PROSECUTOR.

DO YOU SEE THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN SOME WAYS AS A REFERENDUM ON WHERE THE COUNTRY IS ON RACE?

HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

I DO SEE THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, MORE SO THAN OTHERS, AS BEING A REFERENDUM ON RACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE.

A REFERENDUM, I THINK, IN MANY WAYS, MICHEL, THIS WHOLE NOTION OF THE PREAMBLE TO THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION, WHICH WE ALL QUOTE, I STILL GO IN COURTROOMS AND I QUESTION IF THEY REALLY BELIEVE IT WHEN THEY SAY WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, THAT ARE ENDOWED WITH THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, AMONG THEM THE RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

I QUESTION WHETHER THIS PRESIDENT BELIEVES THAT.

I WANT TO BELIEVE IN MY HEART THAT JOE BIDEN, DESPITE SOME OF HIS PAST MISTAKES, NO MAN IS PERFECT, NO POLITICIAN IS PERFECT, BUT I WANT TO BELIEVE HE HAS CHARACTER AND CONVICTION, AND THAT HE HAS EVOLVED.

AND THE SAME WITH MY DEAR FRIEND SENATOR KAMALA HARRIS WHO IS A BLACK WOMAN WHO IF ELECTED WOULD BECOME THE FIRST VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF COLOR AND BE LITERALLY THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN WHO IS WITHIN A HEARTBEAT OF BEING THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.

AND THAT IS SIGNIFICANT.

AND SHE HAS TRIED TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM FROM WORKING ON THE INSIDE.

AND WHEN YOU'RE ON THE INSIDE, IT IS CHALLENGING, BECAUSE POLITICS BY ITS VERY DEFINITION IS THE ART OF COMPROMISE.

SO YOU CAN'T ALWAYS DO THE THINGS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO DO BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO TRY TO WORK WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM YOU.

BUT WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, WE HAVE TO TRANSFORM THIS PAIN WE ARE COLLECTIVELY FEELING, WATCHING THOSE VIDEOS OF AHMAUD AND ESPECIALLY GEORGE FLOYD, TRANSFORM THAT PAIN INTO A SENSE OF POWER, AND MY LORD, TRANSFORM THE PROTESTS INTO POLICIES AND ACTION AT THE POLLS.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE WE WILL GET A NEW PRESIDENT THAT THINKS DIFFERENTLY THAN THE ONE WE HAVE HAD FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

DO YOU EVER ENVISION A DAY WHEN A PARENT LIKE TRACY MARTIN MIGHT CALL YOU AND YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY YOU DON'T NEED ME?

I PRAY FOR THAT DAY.

I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL SEE IT IN MY LIFETIME.

BEN CRUMP, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MICHEL.