January 20, 2021

> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.'

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

SO HELP ME GOD.

CONGRATULATIONS MR.

PRESIDENT.

MORNING IN AMERICA.

JOE BIDEN BECOMES THE 46th PRESIDENT AND WE TALK TO HISTORIANS DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN AND EDDIE ABOUT THE MEANING OF THIS MOMENT.

PLUS.

I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH HIM AND WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION STRENGTHENING THE PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN OUR COUNTRIES.

WHAT DOES A BIDEN PRESIDENCY MEAN FOR THE WORLD?

WE ASK THE UK'S FORMER AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S. AND FORMER FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER TO McCAIN'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, CORY SHAHKA.

> SHE'S STEPPING UP TO BAT AS HERSELF AND THAT'S A VERY STRONG MESSAGE TO GIRLS AND WOMEN EVERYWHERE.

KAMALA HARRIS AND HER HISTORY-MAKING MOMENT.

MICHELLE MARTIN TALKS TO ICONIC FEMINIST GLORIA STEINEM AND AUTHOR ABOUT THE VICE PRESIDENT AND THE CRITICAL ISSUES OF GENDER AND RACE.

'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND, SUE AND EDGAR WAKENHEIM III.

CANDACE KING WARE.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BETH ROGERS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

JOE BIDEN SWORN IN, TWO WEEKS AGO, THE SITE OF A BLOODY INSURRECTION.

PLEDGING TO PUT HIS WHOLE SOUL INTO UNITING AMERICA.

IT'S DEMOCRACY'S DAY AND PAID TRIBUTE TO ITS VERY SURVIVAL.

THROUGH A CRUCIBLE FOR THE AGES, AMERICA'S BEEN TESTED ANEW AND AMERICA HAS RISEN TO THE CHALLENGE.

TODAY, WE CELEBRATE THE TRIUMPH NOT OF A CANDIDATE, BUT OF A CAUSE.

THE CAUSE OF DEMOCRACY.

THE PEOPLE, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, HAS BEEN HEARD.

AND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE HAS BEEN HEEDED.

AND INDEED, HISTORY HAS BEEN MADE.

AS VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS WAS SWORN IN AS THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN, THE FIRST SOUTH ASIAN AND THE FIRST WOMAN TO EVER HOLD THAT POSITION.

AND THE FIRST LATINA SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, SONIA SOTOMAYOR, ADMINISTERED HER OATH OF OFFICE.

THE DUTIES ON THE OFFICE OF WHICH I AM ABOUT TO ENTER.

SO HELP ME GOD.

SO HELP ME GOD.

NOW JUST AFTER THE CEREMONY, BIDEN AND HARRIS HEADED INSIDE THE CAPITOL AND SIGNED FIRST OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS HEEDED AS PRESIDENT AND WHO BETTER TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS IN AMERICA'S FOREMOST PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR OF LEADERSHIP IN TURBULENT TIMES, DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN AND ALSO, PRINCETON PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES.

EDDIE GLOR JR.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM ON THIS INCREDIBLE DAY.

I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU TO COMMENT ON THE FOLLOWING.

PRESIDENT OBAMA TWEETED EARLIER THIS MORNING, CONGRATULATIONS TO MY FRIEND, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.

THIS IS YOUR TIME.

DORIS, I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST.

BIDEN RAN THREE TIMES.

HE WON THIS TIME.

WHAT MAKES THIS THE RIGHT MOMENT?

THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT HISTORY ALWAYS ASKS IN A CRISIS.

WHO IS THE PERSON FOR THAT MOMENT?

OBVIOUSLY, BUCHANON WAS THE WORST PERSON FOR THE SECTIONAL DIVISIONS IN THE 1850s AND THEN WHEN LINCOLN COMES ALONG, HE'S THE RIGHT PERSON.

SIMILARLY, HOOVER WAS NOT THE RIGHT PERSON FOR DEALING WITH THE DEPRESSION.

ABSENCE OF LEADERSHIP AND THEN COMES FDR, AND IT MAY WELL BE THAT JOE BIDEN, BECAUSE OF HIS EXPERIENCE, AND I DON'T MEAN JUST HIS EXPERIENCE IN GOVERNMENT BUT HIS LIFE EXPERIENCE.

HE'S LEARNED HUMILITY BECAUSE OF THE SITUATIONS HE'S BEEN IN.

EMPATHY, FAMOUSLY, AS EVERYONE TALKED ABOUT AND A SENSE OF RESILIENCE HE HAD WHICH IS WHAT THE COUNTRY ITSELF HAS TO GO THROUGH AND MAY BE AS WELL HIS AMBITION WHICH STARTS OUT IN THE EARLIER RACES AS NORMALLY A YOUNG PERSON IS FOR SELF, HAS TURNED INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE TALKED ABOUT TODAY WHEN HE SAID THAT LINCOLN HAD WHEN HE SIGNED THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION.

HIS WHOLE SOUL IN THE TASK TO BRING UNITY TO THE COUNTRY AND THE BIPARTISANSHIP, HE CAN REMEMBER THAT AND HIS TEMPERAMENT MAY BE THE TIDE TO POSSIBLY, MAYBE THE FEVER BROKE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE EVENTS OF TWO WEEKS AGO.

WE'VE BEEN WAITING AND WAITING FOR THAT HUNGER FOR LEADERSHIP AND HUNGER FOR BIPARTISANSHIP TO COME AND IF THAT GIVES HIM AN OPPORTUNITY WHICH A CRISIS DOES AND HE HAS THE TEMPERAMENT TO FIT IT, THEN MAYBE HE IS THE MAN FOR THE TIME AS PRESIDENT BIDEN IS SUGGESTING.

PRESIDENT BIDEN, PRESIDENT OBAMA IS SUGGESTING.

AND PRESIDENT BIDEN.

HE'S SUGGESTING THAT THIS IS THE TIME, YOU SAID, TO PUT HIS WHOLE HEART AND SOUL INTO UNITY AND EDDIE, I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE HE LOOKED OUT ACROSS, YES, A SEA OF FLAGS, NOT MASSIVE CROWDS LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD INIESTER YESTERYEAR, BUT POINTED OVER TO THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL, IT WAS THERE SO MANY YEARS AGO THAT MARTIN LUTHER MADE HIS SPEECH.

THE INEQUITIES ABOUT RACISM AND THE SYSTEMIC CHANGES THAT NEED TO HAPPEN.

WHAT DID YOU TAKE FROM TODAY AND FROM ALL OF THIS MOMENT?

DO YOU THINK THIS IS A TRANSFORMATIVE MOMENT?

WELL, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL BE A TRANSFORMATIVE MOMENT.

IT CERTAINLY IS CLOSING THE PAGE OR THE BOOK ON THE LAST FOUR YEARS OF CHAOS THAT WAS, IN EFFECT, DONALD TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY.

I THINK THERE WAS SOME REALLY POWERFUL MOMENTS IN THIS SPEECH.

THERE WERE SOME MOMENTS INVOKED LANGSTON HUGHES.

THE FACT HE USED THE LANGUAGE OF RACISM AND WHITE SUPREMACY.

THOSE WERE IMPORTANT MOMENTS.

THE IDEA THAT WE MUST IMAGINE A SENSE OF WE THE PEOPLE THAT INCLUDES ALL OF US, THAT IN SOME WAYS, DOESN'T VALUE ONE GROUP OF AMERICANS OVER AND AGAINST THE OTHER.

I THINK THAT WAS CRITICAL.

BUT YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK WHAT MAKES PRESIDENT BIDEN AN INTERESTING CANDIDATE TO BE A TRANSFORMATIVE PRESIDENT IS THAT WE CANNOT LOSE SIGHT OF THE FACT HE WAS THE FIRST VICE PRESIDENT TO THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.

AND HE'S THE FIRST PRESIDENT TO THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN PRESIDENT.

HE'S BEEN IN THIS SPACE OF TRANSFORMATION TWICE NOW.

SO I THINK HE'S POSITIONED TO USHER THE COUNTRY INTO A NEW KIND OF CONSENSUS BUT WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHETHER HE'S SUCCESSFUL OR NOT.

WHAT DO YOU TAKE FROM THIS WOMAN ASCENDING TO THE POSITION OF POWER IN THE UNITED STATES?

DORIS, AS A WOMAN, I WAS CERTAINLY MOVED, I HAVE TO SAY.

WITHOUT A QUESTION, I MUST SAY, IT'S ABOUT TIME, RIGHT?

THE FACT THAT WE'VE NOT HAD A FEMALE VICE PRESIDENT OR A FEMALE PRESIDENT IN SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

EVERY NOW AND THEN, YOU WANT TO SAY, I'M GETTING TO BE AN OLDER WOMAN NOW.

I WANT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

NOT ONLY THE SYMBOLISM OF THE FACT THAT SHE'S A WOMAN OF COLOR, AND THAT SHE IS A WOMAN, BUT THE POWER THAT SHE'S GOING TO HAVE IN THIS VICE PRESIDENCY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT BIDEN WAS POWERFUL UNDER OBAMA AND HE'S GOING TO GIVE HER THE CHANCE TO BECOME A VERY POWERFUL LEADER AND SHE'S GOT THE FIERY WILL.

IT'S MORE THAN IDENTITY.

I THINK IT'S EXPERIENCE TOO, COMING FROM A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND AND THAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TEAM HE'S CREATED.

IT'S NOT SIMPLY THEY REPRESENT AMERICA IN A WAY THAT PREVIOUS CABINETS HAVE NOT IN THE SAME WAY.

AND THAT'S SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE ALL THOSE VOICES CHANNELLED INTO THE PRESIDENT'S EAR.

YOU TOUCHED ON IT SLIGHTLY, BUT THE FACT THAT A BLACK WOMAN, OBVIOUSLY, THERE WAS A BLACK PRESIDENT BUT THE BLACK WOMAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER ALL OF THIS, AFTER THE RISE OF WHITE SUPREMACY, AFTER ALL THAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

WELL, YOU CAN'T GET A STARKER CONTRAST BETWEEN THE WORLD, THE AMERICA THAT IS TRYING TO AND THE AMERICA THAT IS, WHERE YOU HAVE A WHITE MOB SACKING THE CAPITOL AND THE DAY BEFORE, YOU HAVE THE DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFTS MAKING THEMSELVES KNOWN IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA AND OF COURSE, THE STATE OF GEORGIA HELPING JOE BIDEN TO BECOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, SYMBOLICALLY, THAT WE HAVE THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO BE THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I'M THINKING ABOUT ALL OF THOSE ATLANTA WASHER WOMEN, THE BLACK WASHER WOMEN WHO WENT ON STRIKE IN THE LATE 19th CENTURY FOR DECENT WAGES, HAIMER, ELLA BAKER AND SHIRLEY CHISHAM.

ALL THE BLACK WOMEN WHO FOUGHT FOR A RACIALLY JUST SOCIETY.

THOSE ARE THE CLOUD OF WITNESSES SHE BRINGS INTO THE OFFICE WITH HER BUT THE SYMBOLISM IS NOT ENOUGH.

SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION IS NOT SUFFICIENT.

THE COUNTRY FACES ENORMOUS CRISIS.

SHE WILL BE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL VICE PRESIDENTS WE'VE EVER HAD.

WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT THEY DO TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS.

THAT'S THE KEY.

THAT IS TRUE, SHE WILL BE THE TIE BREAKER IN THE SENATE IF NECESSARY.

IT'S A HUGE, HUGE POSITION SHE'S ASCENDING TO.

CAN I GO BACK TO ONE OF THE PHRASES THE PRESIDENT USED IN THE INAUGURAL ADDRESS?

WE HAVE TO END THIS UNCIVIL WAR.

I WANT TO TAKE YOU BACK, OBVIOUSLY, TO LINCOLN AND THE CIVIL WAR AND WHAT HAPPENED AND THE BACKLASH AND ALL OF THAT.

AND ASK YOU TO SORT OF PUT THAT HAT ON AND SEE WHETHER THIS CURRENT UNCIVIL WAR CAN BE ENDED AND HOW.

SOMETIMES IT'S HAUNTING TO THINK ABOUT LINCOLN'S INAUGURATION BECAUSE LIKE THIS ONE, THERE WAS A MENACE THAT WAS HANGING OVER IT.

THERE WERE THREATS ON LINCOLN'S LIFE.

A MOB WAS GOING TO MEET HIM IN THE STATION IN BALTIMORE.

HE HAD TO CHANGE THE TRAIN AS A RESULT OF THAT.

THERE WERE SOLDIERS ON THE STREET, SHARP SHOOTERS IN THE TREES AND OBVIOUSLY, HE WAS FACING SEVEN STATES HAD ALREADY SECEDED AND THE CIVIL WAR THAT WOULD END UP KILLING 6,000 PEOPLE WOULD BEGIN BUT THE DIFFERENCE HOPEFULLY NOW IS THOSE DIVISIONS HAVE BEEN OUT THERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS, THE RACIAL PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO END UP THAT WAY, IF INDEED, WE CAN TAKE THE POWER AND USE THIS PRESIDENCY AND GET THE PEOPLE BEHIND REALLY FORWARD MOVEMENT ON STRUCTURAL CHANGES IN THE ECONOMY AND RACIAL JUSTICE.

I THINK THE KEY IS GOING TO BE, AND EDDIE'S RIGHT, GOING TO BE ACTIONS.

IT MAY BE THAT WHAT BIDEN HAS TO DO FIRST IS TO PROVE HE CAN GET THE VIRUS UNDER CONTROL.

GET THOSE 100 MILLION VACCINES INTO THE ARMS OF PEOPLE.

GET THE STIMULUS PROGRAM GOING SO THAT THE ECONOMY GETS BACK AND THE PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY NEED AND DEAL WITH THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS WHICH ARE DEEP BUT MAYBE THE SUCCESS OF THAT FIRST PART WILL GIVE HIM THE STRENGTH TO GO FORWARD.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH FDR.

HE HAD TO DEAL WITH THE BANKING CRISIS FIRST.

HE CALLS AN EMERGENCY SESSION OF CONGRESS AND THEN GOING TO LET THEM GO HOME AND SAID, NO, I BETTER KEEP THEM HERE.

HE KEEPS THEM HERE AND THAT'S THE 100 DAYS AND THAT'S WHEN THE SYSTEMIC FORM TAKES PLACE.

MAYBE THAT'S GOING TO BE THE WAY THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE TO ROLL ITSELF OUT.

I WAS STRUCK BY HOW BIDEN APPEALED TO ALL THOSE WHO DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM.

AS MANY PRESIDENTS DO, I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT FOR ALL AMERICANS BUT HE ACTUALLY WENT DEEPER.

HE TALKED ABOUT HIS MOTHER AND HOW HIS MOTHER SAID YOU CAN ONLY, YOU KNOW, REALLY BE SUCCESSFUL IF YOU CARE TO WALK IN OTHER PEOPLE'S SHOES.

HE SAID WE CAN DISAGREE BUT WE HAVE TO DO IT WITHIN THE NORMAL BOUNDARIES AND HE SAID, HEAR ME OUT.

IF YOU STILL DON'T LIKE WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, WE CAN STILL DISAGREE.

TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT TONAL CHANGE.

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, WE WERE ALL VERY CLEAR THAT DONALD TRUMP GOVERNED FOR HIS BASE.

HE DIDN'T REALLY, HE WASN'T REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE WHO DISAGREED WITH HIM OR WHO DISLIKED HIM.

HIS SOLE OBJECTIVE WAS TO EXPAND THAT BASE BY APPEALING TO DISAFFECTED WHITE AMERICANS AND GRIEVANCE, RESENTMENT AND HATRED.

THIS WAS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

I LOVE THE FORMULATION.

THIS MUST NOT LEAD TO DISUNION.

THAT WAS A POWERFUL FORMULATION IN THE INAUGURAL ADDRESS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING REALLY POWERFUL HERE.

THERE'S SOMETHING WHO HOLD VIEWS THAT FUNDAMENTALLY RUN CONTRARY TO OUR DEMOCRACY.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO ACTUALLY HOLD THE POSITION THAT, YOU KNOW, WHITE AMERICA SHOULD BE JUST THAT AND THOSE WHO ARE NOT WHITE TAKES A SUBORDINATE POSITION.

HOW DOES ONE SPEAK TO THAT AND WHO HAS TO BEAR THE BRUNT OF THE COMPROMISE WITH THAT CONSTITUENCY?

WHAT WAS IRONIC?

THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE TIME, WHILE THIS AMAZING AMERICAN RITUAL.

I'M RECEIVING THE MOST VICIOUS EMAILS IN REALTIME.

PEOPLE CALLING FOR MY VIOLENT DEATH.

FOLKS THREATENING MY LIFE.

I'M GETTING EMAILS FROM MY ASSISTANT.

SO TELLING TO BE CAREFUL.

THERE'S THIS KIND OF CONTRAST WE HAVE TO CONFRONT.

THERE ARE THOSE WE DISAGREE WITH AND TO THE BASIC FRAME OF DELIBERATION AND THOSE WHO HOLD COMMITMENT THAT THREATEN THE ENTIRE THING.

HOW YOU DEAL WITH THEM IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN HOW YOU DEAL WITH THE FORMER.

TEDDY ROOSEVELT PREDICTED THE BIGGEST THREAT TO DEMOCRACY IS IF PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT SECTIONS AND CLASSES SEE EACH OTHER AS THE OTHER RATHER THAN THE COMMON AMERICAN CITIZENS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO ABOUT THEM, EXCEPT FOR REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE CAPITOL AND HUNTING DOWN WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND MAKE SURE THEY CAN'T ACT BUT MAYBE THERE'S A LARGER GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO BE THE OTHER WHO ARE IN THAT REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO MAY NOW LOOK FOR A NEW BIRTH OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND BREAK AWAY.

TRUMP GAVE POWER TO THOSE VOICES.

THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN OUT THERE BUT HE GAVE POWER.

IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY MOVES WHEN IT WAS FORMED IN THE 1850s, AGAINST THE WIGS, AGAINST SLAVERY, THEN WE'VE GOT A CHANCE TO GET AT LEAST THE COUNTRY MOVING FORWARD AND DEALING WITH THESE PEOPLE WILL BE A DIFFERENT PROBLEM.

PRESIDENT TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE AS THE LEAST POPULAR PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY, ACCORDING TO POLLS.

LOWEST RANKING IN ALL OF AMERICAN HISTORY, AND WHAT YOU'VE JUST TOUCHED ON IS REALLY THE FUNDAMENTAL FOR MOVING FORWARD.

AND THAT IS THE BIG LIE.

I MEAN, WE'VE NOW CREATED THIS THING CALLED THE BIG LIE, WHICH IS WHAT THEY PERPETRATED.

THEY DIDN'T LOSE THE ELECTION, IT WAS STOLEN FROM ALL.

ALL THAT.

AND IT GOES BACK, I'M STRUCK BY THIS, BECAUSE IT REALLY DOES HAVE HISTORIC CONNOTATIONS AND RECENT ARTICLES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IT, IT COMES TRUE.

DON'T FORGET.

THE 78% OF REPUBLICANS TODAY DON'T TRUST THE ELECTION RESULTS.

SO HISTORICALLY, TALK TO US ABOUT THE BIG LIE AND HOW THAT POISON NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED AND BIDEN, THE NEW PRESIDENT, TALKED ABOUT THE RETURN OF TRUTH TO THE GENERAL DISCUSSION.

FIRST THEY'LL JUDGE HIM BY HOW HE HANDLED THE MAJOR CRISIS AT THE TIME, THE VIRUS AND THE ECONOMICS AND THE INEQUITIES, DIFFERENT PEOPLE OF COLOR VERSUS WHITE AMERICANS BUT ALSO TALK ABOUT THE CRISIS HE HIMSELF CREATED BETWEEN THE ELECTION AND THE INAUGURATION WHEN HE REFUSED TO CONCEDE THE ELECTION, WHEN HE FABRICATED IT WAS A STOLEN ELECTION WHICH PEOPLE BELIEVED WHICH THEN MOBILIZED A MOB TO GO TO THE CAPITOL TO DISRUPT THE COUNTING OF THE VOTING AT THAT POINT.

THAT WILL BE SOMETHING TO DELIGHT HIM DOWN IN DISHONOR AND I THINK THAT'S THE MAJOR POINT I THINK BIDEN IS TRYING TO MAKE THAT WE HAVE TO GET TRUTH OUT, SCIENCE BACK IN.

THAT'S NOT SO EASILY SAID WHEN, AS YOU POINT OUT, A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE THAT LIE.

THE BIG LIE THAT WE EXPERIENCE RECENTLY IS ACTUALLY PREDICATED UPON A BIGGER LIE.

AND THAT IS ONLY WHITE VOTERS MATTER.

PART OF WHAT THE MOTIVATED THE WAS STOLEN FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY DISCOUNTED WHAT HAPPENED IN MILWAUKEE, WHAT HAPPENED IN DETROIT, WHAT HAPPENED IN PHILADELPHIA, WHAT HAPPENED IN ATLANTA.

SO IF WE TAKE DONALD TRUMP AT HIS WORD, THEN WHITE VOTERS ONLY MATTER.

AND IF THAT'S TRUE, HE ACTUALLY WON BY A LANDSLIDE BECAUSE AMONG WHITE VOTERS, HE DID.

BUT WHEN YOU TAKE SERIOUSLY HOW RACE HAS THREATENED TO CHOKE THE LIFE OUT OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY SINCE OUR FOUNDING, WE SEE THAT LIE PERMEATING OUR CURRENT DISCOURSE AND REMEMBER WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID YESTERDAY.

WE MUST, IN ORDER TO HEAL, WE MUST REMEMBER.

WE'VE GOT TO HAVE TO CONFRONT THAT GHASTLY FAILURE, THAT LIE SO THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THE LIES THAT FOLLOW FROM IT.

AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY A GREAT WAY TO END THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO BE FUNDAMENTAL FOR GOING FORWARD AND FOR THE SUCCESS OR THE FAILURE OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND POTENTIALLY EVEN DEMOCRACY ITSELF.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

EDDIE GLOR JR. AND DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE ON THIS DAY.

> NOW PRESIDENT BIDEN'S MAIN GOAL IS DEALING WITH THE PANDEMIC, OF COURSE.

BUT HIS PRESIDENCY ALSO MARKS A CRUCIAL PIVOT FOR AMERICA'S OVERSEAS ALLIANCES AND HE HAS HAD THIS MESSAGE FOR THEM.

WE ALL UNDERSTAND, THE WORLD IS WATCHING.

WATCHING ALL OF US TODAY.

SO HERE'S MY MESSAGE TO THOSE BEYOND OUR BORDERS.

AMERICA HAS BEEN TESTED AND WE'VE COME OUT STRONGER FOR IT.

WE WILL REPAIR OUR ALLIANCES AND ENGAGE WITH THE WORLD ONCE AGAIN.

NOT TO BEAT YESTERDAY'S CHALLENGES BUT TODAY'S AND TOMORROWS CHALLENGES.

AND WITH ME NOW TO DISCUSS ARE PETER, THE FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES AND CORY SHAKE, FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER TO JOHN McCAIN'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

SEVERAL POLICY ROLES AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND ALSO THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT.

SO WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM.

SO LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE HE WAS TALKING DIRECTLY TO THE ALLIES.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE, PETER, OF WHAT HE SAID AND WHETHER HE CAN RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES TO SORT OF STATUS QUO ANTI WITH THE ALLIANCES AND GENERAL FRAMEWORK OF AMERICAN DIPLOMACY?

CHRISTIANE, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

I THINK WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT WAS A VERY WELCOME MESSAGE TO A LOT OF AMERICA'S FRIENDS AND ALLIES WHO, OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, HAVE SEEN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF UNPREDICTABLE UNILATERALISM WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DONE HIS OWN THING AND APPARENTLY WHEN HE'S TRYING TO BE HELPFUL TO ALLIES ON OWN TERRITORIES IN THE UNITE KINGDOM QUITE OFTEN MAKING THINGS MORE DIFFICULT LIKE THERESA MAY WHEN HE WAS ON OFFICIAL VISIT TO THE UK.

OVER THE YEARS, MANY ALLIES HAVE WORRIED ABOUT BOTH UNILATERALISM AND UNDERMINING ALLIANCES AND INSTITUTIONS THAT KEPT THE WORLD SAFE, WHETHER IT'S NATO OR WTO OR W.H.O. OR ATTACKING THE EUROPEAN UNION AND GERMANY AND A NUMBER OF AUTOCRATS AROUND THE WORLD A FREE PASS.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE TO NEW PRESIDENT AND ALLIES, MANY OF WHOM HE KNEW VERY WELL AS VICE PRESIDENT FOUR YEARS BACK, THAT AMERICA IS BACK AS SOMEBODY WITH WHOM YOU CAN ENGAGE AND WHO'S GOING TO BE WORKING COLLECTIVELY WITH LIKE-MINDED PARTNERS AND NOT JUST DOING ITS OWN THING AND DISREGARDING EVERYBODY ELSE'S INTERESTS.

CORY SHAQI, WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS ADMINISTRATION WILL NEED TO DO TO DO WHAT PETER IS TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW, TO GET BACK IN THE GROOVE?

OBVIOUSLY, PRESIDENT BIDEN IS MASSIVELY EXPERIENCED.

SO MUCH FOREIGN EXPERIENCE.

HE'S GOING TO DO SOME IMMEDIATE THINGS TO SORT OF RIGHT THE SHIP, SO TO SPEAK.

YEAH.

I MEAN, IT WILL HELP, JUST NOT TO HAVE A POLITICAL ARSONIS AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I AGREE WITH PETER, ALLIES ARE WITH A HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF, BUT AS I SEE THE EU CONCLUDING ITS TRADE AGREEMENT WITH CHINA JUST ON THE EVE OF THE ADMINISTRATION, THEY'RE NERVOUS ABOUT WHETHER WE'LL BE ABLE TO REGAIN OUR EQUILIBRIUM AND FOR ALL OF THE ADMIRABLE CALLS FOR UNITY ON THE PART OF PRESIDENT BIDEN, THEY'RE ACTUALLY ALSO LOOKING TO SEE WHETHER REPUBLICANS ARE WILLING TO END THIS UNCIVIL WAR AND WHETHER WE ARE GOING TO SQUARE OUR SHOULDERS AND DO WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY AND I THINK THEY'RE REALLY NERVOUS ABOUT THAT SO PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HIS ADMINISTRATION WILL DO LOTS OF, THERE'S SO MANY EASY THINGS THEY CAN DO THAT ARE JUST REVERSING THE ANTAGONISTIC APPROACH AND THE SOVEREIGNTY AT ALL COSTS APPROACH OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BUT I THINK ALLIES ARE ALSO LOOKING TO SEE HOW WE REPUBLICANS WILL RESPOND TO THOSE CALLS.

SO APPARENTLY, IMMEDIATELY THEY'RE GOING TO GET BACK INTO THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET ANOTHER NUCLEAR DEAL WITH IRAN.

THEY'RE GOING TO ENTER THE W.H.O., THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION, AGAIN, STOP THE MUSLIM BAN.

A LOT OF THINGS THEY'RE DOING.

BUT I WANT TO PLAY FOR BOTH OF YOU, A LITTLE BIT OF, SECRETARY OF STATE, WHO WENT THROUGH HIS CONFIRMATION HEARING AND THIS WAS PART OF HIS OPENING STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS THE VALUE ADDED OF THE UNITED STATES IS ON THE WORLD STAGE.

AMERICAN LEADERSHIP STILL MATTERS.

THE REALITY IS, THE WORLD SIMPLY DOES NOT ORGANIZE ITSELF.

WHEN WE'RE NOT ENGAGED, WHEN WE'RE NOT LEADING, THEN ONE OF TWO THINGS IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN.

EITHER SOME OTHER COUNTRY TRIES TO TAKE OUR PLACE BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT'S LIKELY TO ADVANCE OUR INTERESTS AND VALUES OR MAYBE JUST AS BAD, NO ONE DOES AND THEN YOU HAVE CHAOS.

EITHER WAY, THAT DOES NOT SERVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

WELL, THERE WAS A SORT OF NO ONE DOES OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

PETER, DO YOU AGREE IT DOES TAKE A COUNTRY BIG AND POWERFUL AND CONVENING, SUCH A CONVENING POWER AS THE U.S., TO ORGANIZE IN SUCH BIG INSTANCES OF NECESSITY?

I THINK IT DOES, AND IF WE LOOK AT THE INTERNATIONAL CHALLENGES WHICH ARE OUT THERE, SOME OF THEM ARE COLLECTIVE, THE CLIMATE CHANGE AND SORTING OUT THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION, GOING BACK FROM UNILATERALISM.

BUT I THINK IF YOU WANT TO SORT OUT WHAT'S GOING ON, WHAT'S GONE WRONG WITH IRAN, IF YOU WANT TO DEAL WITH CHINA.

IF YOU WANT TO SEE DONALD TRUMP AND THE AMERICAN VOICE, THE AMERICAN POLICY THAT IS CRITICAL, MAY BE INTERESTED IN WHAT THE EUROPEANS HAVE GOT TO SAY IN THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM BUT WHAT THEY REALLY WANT IS AMERICA TO LIFT SANCTIONS AND REFRESH AT RESTORING THE STATUS QUO WITH THE NUCLEAR DEAL IN 2015.

SO I THINK AMERICA IS CRITICAL TO THAT.

BUT IT'S NOT AS IF IT'S JUST AMERICA SNAPS ITS FINGERS AND THE ALLIES GO ALONG.

IT DOES NEED TO BE DONE ON BASIS OF CONSULTATION.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS, LET'S SAY WE AGREE WITH AMERICA ONNEN THIS OR THAT QUESTION, HOW DO WE KNOW AMERICA'S WORDS CAN BE TRUSTED AND PERHAPS THINK AFRESH ABOUT HOW WE ORGANIZE OUR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS.

SO I AGREE WITH WHAT SHE'S SAYING BUT THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE TO RESTORE THE FAITH OF THE ALLIES AND PARTNERS IN THE UNITED STATES AS A VIABLE BUT PROMINENT, QUITE RIGHT, THE PREDOMINANT PARTNER INTO SORT OF INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMACY.

I MEAN, CORY, FOR INSTANCE, THE GREAT CRISIS OF OUR TIME RIGHT NOW, AT LEAST GLOBALLY IS THE COVID PANDEMIC AND THERE'S BEEN A SINGULAR LACK OF AMERICAN COORDINATION IN THIS EFFORT AND IT SHOWS AT HOME, OBVIOUSLY, BUT ALSO SHOWS AROUND THE WORLD.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE UNITED STATES CAN AND SHOULD REGAIN THAT ROLE THAT IT HAD BEFORE THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY AND WILL THE ALLIES, AS PETER SAID, TRUST THEM BECAUSE OF HOW IT COULD SUDDENLY GO ALL, YOU KNOW, PEAR SHAPED WITH ANOTHER PRESIDENT WHO THINKS COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY IF THAT HAPPENS?

YES, CHRISTIANE, I BELIEVE THE U.S. CAN AND SHOULD RESTORE ITS STATURE AS AN INTERNATIONAL LEADER, BECAUSE THAT GIVES US STRATEGIC DEPTH.

THAT GIVES US THE ABILITY TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IN COOPERATION WITH OTHERS RATHER THAN HAVING TO SOLVE THEM BY OURSELVES.

IT'S A CHEAPER MORE EFFECTIVE WAY.

TO PETER'S POINT, THE RELIABILITY QUESTION THAT YOU ALSO RAISED.

YOU KNOW, ONE WAY TO GET A MORE SOLID FOUNDATION IS NOT TO DO THINGS BY EXECUTIVE ORDER BUT TO DO THEM BY TREATY SO THAT YOU GET CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT AND I THINK THE LAST FEW ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE BEEN UNWILLING TO DO THE ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP, BUILD BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS IN THE CONGRESS AND REALLY HOPEFUL THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WITH HIS LONG LEGISLATIVE RECORD WOULD BE WILLING TO DO THAT KIND OF WORK SO THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU DON'T GET THE SEE SAWING OF FOREIGN POLICIES BUT YOU DEMONSTRATE THAT THERE'S BROAD BIPARTISAN APPEAL TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU ALL THINK OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES AND LET ME JUST START BY SAYING THAT THE OUTGOING, NOW DEPARTED SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO HAD QUITE A FLURRY OF ACTIVITIES AND, YOU KNOW, SORT OF DECISIONS THAT SOME SAY COULD BOX THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IN.

OTHERS ARE NOT QUITE SURE, BUT FOR INSTANCE, CALLING CHINA'S REPRESSION OF THE UIGHURS GENOCIDE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT FOR INSTANCE, DESIGNATING THE HUTIS IN YEMEN AS TERRORISTS, PUTTING CUBA BACK ON A TERRORIST LIST.

THAT'S POTENTIALLY QUITE DESTABILIZING.

CAN I JUST ASK YOU WHERE YOU THINK THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES AND BIGGEST RISKS ARE?

PETER?

I THINK THE BIGGEST AND MOST COMPLEX FOREIGN POLICY CHALLENGE IS HOW WE DEAL WITH CHINA.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DONALD TRUMP DID MANAGE TO DO IN THE EARLY YEARS OF HIS PRESIDENCY WAS REMIND PEOPLE THAT CHINA HAD HAD PRETTY FREE RUN BY PRETENDING TO BE A DEVELOPING ECONOMY AND COUNTRY AND THEREFORE HAD VERY ONE SIDED INTERNATIONAL TRADING BENEFITS.

ALL SORT OF UNREASONABLE CONDITIONS, STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S TECHNOLOGY.

IT'S NOT BEHAVED VERY WELL AND I THINK BY CALLING OUT CHINA AND SAYING IT'S EATING EVERYBODY'S LUNCH, TRUMP DID US A SERVICE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, GOING INTO TARIFF WARS, WHETHER WITH CHINA OR THE EUROPEAN UNION OVER THE AIRBUS AND BOEING DISPUTE WAS NOT VERY HELPFUL AND SIMPLY MADE LIFE MORE DIFFICULT FOR A LOT OF AMERICA'S PARTNERS AS WELL AS PUSHING UP PRICES FOR AMERICA'S CONSUMERS.

SO I THINK THAT IS THE BIGGEST SINGLE CHALLENGE IS HOW TO DEAL WITH CHINA.

THE OTHER THING I WOULD QUICKLY ADD WHICH WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT TOGETHER, NOT JUST ABOUT AMERICAN LEADERSHIP BUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THE VERY LOW COST FOR AN EXTREMELY DAMAGING CYBER WARFARE THAT SOME OF THE PLAYERS LIKE IRAN, CHINA, NORTH KOREA ARE INDULGING IN AT THE MOMENT.

THIS DOES INTENSE DAMAGE TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, OUR BANKING SYSTEM, OUR GOVERNMENTS, OUR STATE SECRETS AND SO ON AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING TO SEE WHAT WE CAN ALL DO TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THE VERY REAL PROBLEM.

NOT TO MENTION RUSSIA.

CORY, LISTEN, THIS RUSSIAN CYBER ATTACK, EVEN AMERICA'S INTELLIGENCE AND DEFENSE CYBER SECURITY DID NOT SEE AND WAS DISCOVERED BY I THINK A PRIVATE CYBER SECURITY ENTERPRISE WAS GOING ON FOR MONTHS, GOT INTO AT LEAST TEN FEDERAL AGENCIES INCLUDING NUCLEAR INSULATIONS AND THINGS.

DO YOU SEE THAT AS ONE OF THE BIGGEST THREATS TO THE HOMELAND AND FRANKLY, TO THE WORLD?

I DO.

AND THERE'S A HUGE CHALLENGE FOR FREE SOCIETIES IN WRESTLING WITH HOW TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE OUR OPENNESS, WHICH IS SUCH A SOURCE OF OUR VIBRANCY AND STRENGTHS.

HOW TO PUT UP A SHIELD THAT PROTECTS US AGAINST THAT, AND SO I THINK THERE WILL BE A HUGE CHALLENGE FOR THE NEW ADMINISTRATION AND FOR OUR FRIENDS, THE OTHER FREE SOCIETIES IN THE WORLD, TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE PROTECT OURSELVES IN WAYS THAT BALANCE WITH OUR VALUES.

HOW DO WE CREATE A VALUES-BASED INTERNET?

HOW DO WE DEAL WITH OUR OWN COMPANIES THAT ARE MAJOR SOURCES OF INVESTMENT IN CHINA?

HOW DO WE TAME U.S. TECH COMPANIES WHICH HAVE DONE SO MUCH DAMAGE TO DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA?

BUT THE GOOD NEWS FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS THAT REPAIRING THE DOMESTIC FOUNDATIONS OF OUR STRENGTH ACTUALLY IS THE BEST WAY TO MANAGE THE PANDEMIC, RESTORE CONFIDENCE IN AMERICAN LEADERSHIP AND TO RESTORE THE DESERVINGNESS OF US IN THAT CONFIDENCE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU PROBABLY FINALLY, WHAT DOES TRUMP'S DEPARTURE MEAN FOR THE AUTHORITARIANS IN THE WORLD WHO ACCRUED A HUGE AMOUNT OF, YOU KNOW, STRENGTH AND LEGIT MAIZATION UNDER THE LAST FOUR YEARS?

YOU SAY TRUMP WAS, YES, HE CRACKED DOWN ON CHINA.

HE POINTED IT OUT, EATING EVERYONE'S LUNCH BUT HAD A PERFECTLY LOVELY FRIENDSHIP WITH HIS FRIEND XI JINPING CRACKING DOWN ON DEMOCRACY ALL OVER THE PLACE.

HE LIKED PUTIN.

HE LIKED MUHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, WHO WE BELIEVE WAS BEHIND THE MURDER OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI.

WHAT'S BEHIND THOSE LEADERS WHO ARE THE MOST POWERFUL IN THE WORLD?

I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE A NOTE FROM THE JUBILATION AND RELIEF YOU SEE FROM DONALD TRUMP'S DEPARTURE FROM THE PRESIDENCY.

THEY SHOULD SEE THEIR OWN FUTURES IN THAT, THE CONFIDENCE GROWING OF FREE SOCIETIES THAT BY HOLDING HANDS AND STRENGTHENING EACH OTHER, THAT WE CREATE AN INTERNATIONAL ORDER THAT'S IN OUR INTEREST AND THE INTEREST OF OTHERS AS WELL.

AND THE AUTHORITARIANS CAN HAVE NO SUCH APPEAL BECAUSE THEY RELY ON THAT VERSUS INCLUSION.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL SEE SUPPORTING SAUDI ARABIA'S WAR IN YEMEN AND THREATENING POTENTIALLY TO DECLASSIFY ANY INFORMATION THEY HAVE ABOUT KHASHOGGI'S MURDER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK SAUDI ARABIA CAN EXPECT UNDER A BIDEN ADMINISTRATION?

FOR SOME MONTHS NOW, IT'S BEEN TRANSMITTING IT WON'T BE THE SAME AS UNDER DONALD TRUMP WHO ESSENTIALLY GAVE A FREE PASS OR SO ELEGANTLY PUT IT, SAVED HIS ASS, IT WON'T BE THE SAME.

IT WON'T BE THE SAME FOR PRESIDENT ERDOGAN IN TURKEY WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP BEHIND THE STATES IS VERY COMPLEX.

TRENDS IN THE NON-HOPEFUL DIRECTION, RULE OF LAW AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH WITH JOURNALISTS, SO ON.

SIGNALED VERY DIFFERENT AND CLEARLY WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN WHETHER IT'S CYBER OFFENSIVES, WHICH I WAS TALKING ABOUT JUST NOW OR INTERFEING WITH WESTERN DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS, SO ON.

I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE ANYTHING RESEMBLING THE TOLERANCE FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

PERHAPS THE SINGLE MOST USEFUL THING HE CAN DO AND GUY BACK TO THE INAUGURATION SPEECHES EARLIER TODAY IS TO REPLACE A WORLD OF COMPLETE LIES AND FABRICATION WITH A WORLD WHERE WE'VE GONE BACK TO FACTS AND TRUTH.

THERE WAS A VERY TELLING LITTLE SENTENCE IN TIM SCHNEIDER'S ASSESSMENT THE OTHER DAY OF TRUMP'S ADMINISTRATION WHERE HE SAID POST-TRUTH IS PRE-FASCISM AND I THINK THAT'S A PITHY WAY OF PUTTING IT AND I THINK WITH BIDEN, WE'LL HOPEFULLY GO BACK TO REALITY AND FACTS.

WHICH MEANS IT WILL BE MORE HARD TO GET BACK WITH TRUMPETING BIG LIES AND SMALL LIES IN THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

IT WON'T BE STATUS QUO AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, BUT I THINK A LOT OF THE AUTOCRATS WHO HAVE HAD A FREE PASS ARE GOING TO FIND LIFE MORE DIFFICULT, EVEN THOUGH AMERICA WILL, OF COURSE, BE LOOKING AT ALL THESE RELATIONSHIPS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHERE IS THE U.S.

NATIONAL INTEREST?

AND CORY, FINALLY, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE OR WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE THE CLOSEST ALLY TO PRESIDENT BIDEN?

YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT A BIG INTERVENTIONIST.

IT'S NOT LIKE HE'S SUDDENLY START BECOMING THE WORLD'S POLICEMAN.

ONE GOOD THING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IS HE DIDN'T START ANY NEW WARS OVERSEAS AND BIDEN IS NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT AN INTERVENTIONIST REALLY.

WHAT DO YOU SEE HAPPENING IN PLACES THAT MIGHT NEED WHETHER IT'S SYRIA OR ONGOING CONFLICT IN AFGHANISTAN?

THAT WILL CERTAINLY BE PROBLEMS TO SOLVE AND PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS GIVEN PRESIDENT BIDEN A GIFT BY HIS WITHDRAWAL PLANS FOR IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT A BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WOULD HAVE WANTED TO DO AS WELL.

BUT I THINK THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER OPPORTUNITIES THE UNITED STATES WASN'T ABLE TO TAKE BECAUSE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S POLICIES AND HIS APPROACH.

THE BIGGEST OPPORTUNITY I THINK WE'VE MISSED AND I HOPE WILL BE THE CLOSE PARTNERSHIPS YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, CHRISTIANE, ARE WITH CANADA AND MEXICO.

PLATFORM OF LABOR AND ECONOMIC SUPPLY CHAINS IS SUCH A HUGE OPPORTUNITY THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WASN'T ABLE TO SEE THAT I HOPE A BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL.

CORY AND PETER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

AS WE'VE ALREADY REPORTED, SEEING VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS MAKING HISTORY AS THE FIRST FEMALE OF BLACK AND SOUTH ASIAN HERITAGE TO HOLD THIS OFFICE IS SO INSPIRATIONAL.

AND CRACKED THE ULTIMATE GLASS CEILING OF COURSE.

GLORIA STEINEM, ONE OF THE FIRST TO CHALLENGE INTERSECTIONAL FEMINISM AND HOST OF THE PODCAST, OUR BODY POLITIC.

BOTH JOIN OUR MICHELLE MARTIN TO TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH THIS NEW VICE PRESIDENT CAN ACHIEVE.

THANKS CHRISTIAN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BOTH BEING WITH US.

THANK YOU, MICHELLE.

THANK YOU.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A PLEASURE TO SPEAK WITH YOU BOTH.

EACH OF YOU ARE A TRAIL BLAZER IN YOUR OWN TIME AND IN YOUR OWN WAY.

SO I WANTED TO START BY ASKING YOU AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN, WHAT ARE YOUR TOP OF THE MIND REFLECTIONS ON THIS MOMENT?

I MEAN, ON THE ONE HAND, THIS COUNTRY FINALLY INAUGURATING A WOMAN AND A WOMAN OF COLOR AS VICE PRESIDENT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE LEGITIMACY OF THE VERY ELECTION CHALLENGED BY A MOB.

YOU KNOW, SOME OF WHOM ARE SPOUTING THE MOST RACIST, THE MOST ANTI-SEMITIC, MISOGYNISTIC VERSIONS OF OUR NATIONAL STORY.

SO I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHAT COMES TO MIND FIRST?

GLORIA STEINEM, I'LL START WITH YOU.

FIRST, WE'RE GETTING THE VIRUS OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

I AM JUST SO, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I HAVE FELT THE MOST ALIENATED EVER FROM THIS COUNTRY'S SO-CALLED LEADERSHIP AND OF COURSE, TRUMP WAS NOT ELECTED BY A MAJORITY VOTE.

HE REALLY WAS ILLEGITIMATE IN SO MANY WAYS.

SO I FEEL AS IF WE'RE RETURNING TO DEMOCRACY AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THAT WE HAVE KAMALA AS A VICE PRESIDENT WHICH HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.

I THINK IN THE PUBLIC IMAGINATION, WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE IMAGINED THEMSELVES INTO THAT POSITION AT LEAST SINCE VICTORIA AND FREDERICK DOUGLASS AND CHISHOLM, WHO TOOK THE WHITE MALE OFF THE DOOR.

THAT WAS 50 YEARS AGO.

IT FEELS A LONG TIME COMING AND A GREAT RELIEF AND AS IF WE'RE BEGINNING TO HAVE AN ACTUAL DEMOCRACY IN WHICH EVERYONE CAN IMAGINE THEMSELVES IN A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP.

I WOULD ECHO WHAT GLORIA IS SAYING AND AMERICA HAS EFFECTIVELY ONLY HAD A REAL DEMOCRACY ONE HUMAN, ONE VOTE FOR A LITTLE OVER 50 YEARS.

PEOPLE LIKE ADAM SUHR WERE RIGHT ABOUT THIS.

WE HAVE ALWAYS SHUT THE DOOR ON CERTAIN POPULATIONS.

FIRST, EVERYONE WHO WAS NOT A LAND-OWNING WHITE MAN THEN SEQUENTIALLY OVER TIME, VARIOUS PEOPLE AND UP TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA AND RIGHT NOW, I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THIS COUNTRY IS THAT WHEN WOMEN OF COLOR LEAD, WHEN BLACK WOMEN LEAD, WE LEAD ON BEHALF OF THE BODY POLITIC.

WE LEAD ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE.

WE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE ANYONE BEHIND.

ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE PUT EXCLUSIONARY LEADERSHIP AS THEIR PRIORITY.

TO HOLD IT FOR MYSELF AND PEOPLE WHO I LIKE OR PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE ME.

OTHER PEOPLE AND I THINK WITH STACY ABRAMS AS WELL AS FORMER SENATOR, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT HARRIS ARE LOOKING AT INCLUSIVE LEADERSHIP.

HOW DO I LEAD ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE, INCLUDING PEOPLE I MIGHT NOT EVEN LIKE AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW.

I RESPECT AND APPRECIATE THE FACT BOTH OF YOU ARE FOCUSING ON THE LARGER MOMENT, BUT I CAN'T GET PAST WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE CAPITOL.

JUST LITERALLY, JUST DAYS AGO WHICH ADMITS MILITARY PRESENCE, THE OCCASION OF THIS INAUGURATION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE PROFESS SHOB TO BE SHOCKED BY WHAT HAPPENED.

ARE YOU?

NOT AT ALL.

I WENT OUT ON THE MORNING OFTO BE SHOCKED BY WHAT HAPPENED.

ARE YOU?

NOT AT ALL.

I WENT OUT ON THE MORNING OF JANUARY 6th TO INTERVIEW NON-VIOLENT PROTESTERS.

INCLUDING A BLACK MAN.

EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE STRONG RACIAL SIGNIFIERS BEHIND TRUMP'S SUPPORTERS THAT NOT ALL OF THEM ARE WHITE.

NOT ALL OF THE PROUD BOYS ARE WHITE.

AND SO I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN USING FIELD REPORTING AND DATA TO UNDERSTAND THIS COUNTRY.

IF YOU USE THOSE TOOLS, YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT WHITE SUPREMACISTS ARE KEY POLITICAL ORGANIZERS IN AMERICAN LIFE AND HAVE BEEN SINCE DAY ONE AND THAT THE PRESS, WHICH WE LOVE SO DEARLY, MICHELLE, HAS SUPPRESSED A LOT OF REPORTING INCLUDING SOME OF MY OWN ON THE THINGS THAT WE NEEDED TO LOOK AT.

I FEEL REALLY HEARTBROKEN THAT THERE'S SO MUCH SHOCK IN OUR INDUSTRY OVER THINGS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN POINTED OUT FOUR YEARS AGO, FIVE YEARS AGO OR MORE.

THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT JOURNALISM AS AN INDUSTRY EXCEPT DO MY OWN BEST WORK AND SUPPORT OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO THEIR BEST WORK BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO BLACK AND LATINO REPORTERS AND OTHER REPORTERS OF COLOR, THEY'RE NOT SHOCKED.

WE'RE NOT SHOCKED.

GLORIA, WERE YOU SHOCKED BY WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CAPITOL?

THE MOB INVASION AT THE CAPITOL?

I HAVE TO SAY, I WAS A LITTLE SHOCKED BY ITS PROXIMITY TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

BUT I WASN'T SHOCKED, I AGREE, ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE CROWD BECAUSE OVER THE LAST, I DON'T KNOW, 30 OR 40 YEARS, HOWEVER I'VE BEEN WANDERING AROUND THE COUNTRY SPEAKING, I WOULD COME BACK TO NEW YORK AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE WHOLE PARTS OF ESPECIALLY RURAL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE COPS ARE AFRAID TO GO, WHERE THERE ARE THESE ARMED GROUPS THAT HAVE FARMS OR RANCHES WHO REALLY CONTROL THE TERRITORY AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY, OH, NO, THAT'S JUST A SMALL GROUP, BUT I FEEL, I AGREE THEY WERE ALWAYS PRESENT AND THE DIFFERENCE FOR ME WAS THAT NOW THEY WERE INVADING THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

JUST ONE LAST THING.

I THINK ALSO IT'S ABOUT NOT WOMEN OF COLOR HAVE CONSISTENTLY OVERINDEXED FOR OUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS SOCIETY.

SO WHEN I'VE TALKED TO SEVERAL POLITICAL SCIENTISTS IN THE PAST, SOME OF THEM WERE LIKE, THE ONLY WAY AMERICA WILL CHANGE IS IF WHITE CENTRISTS, CONSERVATIVES CAN CONVINCE WHITE CONSPIRACYISTS.

I'M A BLACK WOMAN IN A MAJORITY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE ARE ON THE SAVE OUR OWN BUTTS PLAN AND WHEN WE TRY TO SAVE OUR OWN BUTTS, VERY OFTEN, WE SUCCEED FOR THE GOOD OF ALL.

AND I THINK VERY OFTEN, THERE'S ALSO BEEN THIS PREPONDERANCE IN JOURNALISM AND POLITICS THINKING THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN SOLVE ANYTHING ARE MEN AND THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN SOLVE ANYTHING ARE WHITE PEOPLE AND ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE ABOUT GLORIA, SHE'S ALWAYS HAD AN INTERSECTIONAL FEMINISM WHEN IT COMES TO RACE.

AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT RIGHT NOW, WE ARE DEALING WITH THE SITUATION THAT COULD UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY AS WE KNOW IT, NOT JUST RIGHT NOW, WHICH, OF COURSE, CLEARLY, IT IS, BUT IN PERPETUITY AND WE'VE GOT TO EMBRACE LEADERSHIP.

WE ARE IN THIS MOMENT WHEN THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY HARD ON WOMEN.

WE'VE SEEN THERE ARE NEARLY TWO, MORE THAN TWO MILLION FEWER WOMEN IN THE LABOR FORCE IN DECEMBER THAN THERE WERE IN FEBRUARY.

WE SAW IN DECEMBER THERE WAS A NET LOSS OF 140,000 JOBS AND WOMEN LOST ALL OF THOSE JOBS.

WOMEN LOST 156,000.

MEN GAINED 160,000.

ALL THE NET, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, WE SAW GOING BACK TO THE MOB AT THE CAPITOL.

THERE WERE WOMEN THERE GOING BACK TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONSISTENTLY SUPPORTED DONALD TRUMP.

WOMEN HAVE BEEN A VERY SIGNIFICANT PART OF HIS COALITION, WHITE WOMEN, IT HAS TO BE SAID.

GLORIA, DO YOU WANT TO START, FIRST OF ALL, WHY IT IS THAT MORE WHITE WOMEN HAVEN'T SEEN DONALD TRUMP IN THE SAME WAY THAT WOMEN OF COLOR HAVE?

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE A PROPORTION OF WHITE WOMEN WHO ARE DEPENDENT ON THE IDENTITY AND INCOMES OF WHITE MEN, AND SO THEY ARE VOTING, ARGUABLY, THEIR INTEREST, NOT THEIR OWN INTEREST.

BUT THE IDEA OF THE OTHER AND OVERWHELMING ECONOMIC INTEREST OF THE MEN THEY DEPEND ON CERTAINLY INTERVENES AND WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT.

AND OF COURSE, AT THE SAME TIME, AS YOU POINT OUT, WOMEN ARE MORE VULNERABLE TO THE PANDEMIC BECAUSE WE'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE IN PEOPLE-RELATED JOBS, TO BE KINDS OF REASONS.

SO THE PROPORTIONS CHANGE, BUT NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE AND WE ALWAYS HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SITUATION AND THE INDIVIDUAL.

I THINK THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE POLITICAL HISTORY OF WHITE WOMEN, WE ARE LOOKING AT A LARGE DEMOGRAPHIC.

VERY DIVERSE WITHIN ITSELF, OF COURSE, BUT WHICH HAS USED OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO WIN OFFICE AND I WOULD THINK EVEN PHYLLIS WAS REALLY INVESTED IN THE PROXY POWER THAT SHE COULD HOLD.

SHE WAS A VERY POWERFUL WOMAN BUT SHE VEILED IT IN THIS IDEA SHE WAS HOLDING POWER, SORT OF, FOR WHITE MANHOOD AND THE THING IS, I'M ALL FOR EVERYONE GETTING POWER IN AMERICA EQUALLY.

I'M NOT OUT TO DISENFRANCHISE WHITE MEN BUT VERY OFTEN, THIS ARGUMENT MAKES IT SEEM AS IF BY SIMPLY GOING FOR OUR OWN EQUALITY THAT WE ARE ANTI-MALE, ANTI-WHITE, BUT JUST TO REINFORCE WHAT YOU SAID, MICHELLE, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ECONOMIC ANALYSES.

41% OF LATINAS WERE THE SOLE HOUSEHOLD INCOME AND OVERALL, ANOTHER INDEX FOUND THAT 67.1% OF NATIVE AMERICAN MOTHERS AND 44% OF ASIAN AMERICAN MOTHERS WERE PULLING DOWN AT LEAST 40% OF THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME.

SO PROXY POWER DOESN'T REALLY WORK THAT WELL FOR WOMEN OF COLOR.

WE'VE GOT TO DIY AND EVEN PEOPLE WITH PARTNERS.

I KNOW A LOT OF MIDDLE CLASS MARRIED BLACK WOMEN WHO ARE THE PRIMARY BREADWINNER AND THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL.

IT ALSO SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH BLACK MEN AND LATINO MEN ARE UNDERVALUED IN SOCIETY AS WELL.

SO I THINK THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE SITUATION, I LOOK AT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS AS SOMEONE WHO IS, YOU KNOW, REALLY STANDING UP FOR AN IDEAL OF WOMANHOOD THAT CLAIMS ITS OWN POWER.

WHICH DOES NOT CLAIM PROXY POWER.

IT'S LIKE, SHE IS NOT COAT TAILING ON ANYONE.

SHE IS HER OWN WOMAN.

SHE'S STEPPING UP TO BAT AS HERSELF.

THAT IS A VERY STRONG MESSAGE TO WOMEN AND GIRLS EVERYWHERE AND MEN.

I WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT WHAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

REMEMBER YEARS AGO WHEN THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY MADE SOME MAJOR ADVANCES IN LEGAL RIGHTS, SOME MAJOR SUPREME COURT DECISIONS AND A WOMAN, SHE ASKED THE LAWYER, YOU KNOW, WHY ISN'T IT THAT THIS IS MOVING SO QUICKLY WHEN I FEEL AS A WOMAN, WE'RE STILL FIGHTING FOR BASIC RECOGNITION, BASIC SORT OF RIGHTS AND HE SAID AS PART OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THERE WERE VERY FEW BLACK PEOPLE WHO SAID I DON'T WANT MY RIGHTS.

AND THERE ARE VERY FEW LGBTQ PEOPLE WHO STOOD UP AND SAID, I DON'T WANT MY RIGHTS.

WITH WOMEN, THEY DON'T AGREE.

IS THAT TRUE?

IT IS CERTAINLY RUE AND I THINK THERE'S AN ADDED ELEMENT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT, WHICH IS THE FAMILY AND THE FACT THAT PROBABLY THE MEN, THE WHITE GUYS HAVE ALL BEEN AND GUYS IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN RAISED BY A WOMAN AND THEY ASSOCIATE FEMALE POWER WITH CHILDHOOD AND I NOTICE THIS IN THE TREATMENT OF HILLARY CLINTON AND OTHERS, SHIRLEY CHISHOLM, THERE WAS, ALWAYS SAID THAT THE BLACK POLITICAL ELITE IN BROOKLYN WAS MORE A PROBLEM FOR THOSE GUYS, MORE OF A PROBLEM FOR HER THAN RACE SOMETIMES, AT LEAST IN HER EARLY YEARS.

IT'S AS IF WHEN MEN SEE A POWERFUL WOMAN, THEY FEEL REGRESSED TO CHILDHOOD BECAUSE THAT WAS THE LAST TIME THEY SAW ONE.

THERE'S AN ADDED ELEMENT OF THAT.

WHAT WOULD MAKE THE DIFFERENCE?

WHAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IS SEEING WOMEN IN AUTHORITIES BECOMING ACCUSTOMED TO WOMEN IN AUTHORITY.

IT'S COMPLEX AND IT DEPENDS ON OUR SITUATION BUT I THINK WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT UNTIL MEN AND WOMEN ARE RAISING BABIES AND LITTLE CHILDREN EQUALLY, UNTIL THE FAMILY IS DEMOCRATIC, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE DEMOCRACY.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WORKING WITH JOE BIDEN IN HER ROLE?

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE HER DO?

WELL, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT HARRIS, BASICALLY ALREADY TASKED WITH TAKING A HUGE AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITY.

ALREADY A BIDEN/HARRIS COVID-19 TASK FORCE AND I THINK SHE'S BEING POSITIONED WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION AS A STRATEGIST.

NOT JUST A HANGERS ON OR SOMEONE WHO WAS ON THE TICKET AND FOR POLITICAL REASONS, BUT AS SOMEONE WHO'S A STRATEGIST.

STRATEGIST ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES, STRATEGIST ON ECONOMICS, WOMEN'S ISSUES, WHICH ARE ALL ISSUES.

SHE KNOWS PLACES LIKE SILICON VALLEY, SO I'M SURE SHE'LL BE INVOLVED IN TALKS WITH INDUSTRIES.

FROM EVERYTHING I'M HEARING SO FAR, SHE IS POSITIONED TO BE A STRATEGIST WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION WHICH IS WHAT SHE SHOULD BE.

WHAT DO YOU HOPE THE NEW GENERATION OF YOUNG WOMEN ACTIVISTS WILL FOCUS ON IN THE DAYS AHEAD?

WELL, LET ME REFRAME IT A NOT JUST ABOUT YOUNG WOMEN ACTIVISTS WHO I HAVE SO MUCH LOVE FOR, AND ONE OF MY TEENAGE GOD DAUGHTERS IS AN ACTIVIST AND HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT FOR HER WORK BUT ALL, WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ELECTED, I REMEMBER SO MANY PARENTS SAYING THAT THEIR TEENAGE GIRLS WERE SOBBING BECAUSE THE TAUNTS THAT THEY GOT FROM BOYS THEY THOUGHT WOULD GET SO MUCH WORSE IF SOMEONE SAID GRAB THEM BY THE P WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND GIRLS OF ALL TYPES, ACTIVISTS OR NOT, ARE VERY AWARE OF SOCIAL ORDER AND I HOPE THAT THIS WILL BRING A RESTORATION OF SOCIAL ORDER WHERE THEY FEEL EMPOWERED TO BE THEIR OWN FABULOUS SELVES, SO THAT THE ACTIVISTS DO WHAT THE ACTIVISTS DO BUT GIRLS AND YOUNG WOMEN OF ALL TYPES GET TO BE THEMSELVES.

GLORIA, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

WHAT DO YOU HOPE THIS RISE IN GENERATION OF YOUNG WOMEN ACTIVISTS WILL FOCUS ON?

WHEN YOU WERE SAYING THAT, I WAS THINKING, WHEREVER I AM IN THIS COUNTRY OR IN OTHER COUNTRIES, WHAT I HEAR CHILDREN SAYING THE MOST OFTEN IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGES IS SOME VERSION OF, YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF ME.

AND IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY BECAUSE I THINK SOMEHOW BORN WITH THIS, NOT SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO BOSS AROUND SOMEONE ELSE, ALTHOUGH WE MAY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT, BUT THE FIRST THING THEY SAY IS IN HINDI, IN FRENCH, YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF ME.

AND THAT, TO ME, IS THE BASIS OF DEMOCRACY.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US TODAY.

MICHELLE, IT'S SUCH A PLEASURE, THANK YOU.

YES, MICHELLE, SO WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU.

I'M SO GRATEFUL TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

SUCH AN INSPIRATION FOR BILLIONS OF GIRLS ALL OVER THE WORLD, LITERALLY.

AND FINALLY, IF ANYONE COULD STEAL SOME OF THE NEW PRESIDENTIAL SPOTLIGHT, IT WAS 22-YEAR-OLD AMANDA GORMAN AT THE VERY END RECITING HER DEEPLY MOVING INAUGURAL POEM TITLED THE HILL WE CLIMB.

STARTS OUT CELEBRATING THIS MOMENT OF HOPE AND CHANGE.

WE, THE SUCCESSORS OF A COUNTRY AND A TIME WHERE A SKINNY BLACK GIRL DESCENDED FROM SLAVES AND RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER CAN DREAM OF BECOMING PRESIDENT ONLY TO FIND HERSELF RECITING FOR ONE.

NOW AMANDA WAS APPARENTLY HALFWAY THROUGH WRITING THIS POEM WHEN THE CAPITOL HILL INSURRECTION HAPPENED, AND HER ENDING SOUNDS A POWERFUL WARNING AS WELL AS A MESSAGE OF HOPE AND UNITY.

WHO WILL RISE FROM THE SUN-BAKED SOUTH, WE WILL REBUILD, RECONCILE AND RECOVER EVERY KNOWN NOOK OF OUR NATION AND EVERY CORNER CALLED OUR COUNTRY, OUR PEOPLE BY VERSE AND BEAUTIFUL WILL EMERGE BATTERED AND BEAUTIFUL WHEN DAY COMES, WE STEP OUT OF THE SHADE OF FLAME AND UNAFRAID.

THE NEW DAWN BLOOMS AS WE FREE IT.

FOR THERE WAS ALWAYS LIGHT, IF ONLY WE'RE BRAVE ENOUGH TO SEE IT.

IF ONLY WE'RE BRAVE ENOUGH TO BE IT.

A TRULY MEMORABLE END TO THIS HISTORIC DAY WHICH WAS MARKED BOTH BY TRADITION AND ALSO BY BREAKING NEW GROUND.

AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

REMEMBER, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.

THANKS FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR' AND COMPANY ON PBS AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.