Top Evangelical Leader On His Shocking Resignation

THEOLOGIAN RUSSELL MOORE IS ONE OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL FIGURES IN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY TODAY.

BUT BACK IN MAY HE SENT SHOCK WAVES THROUGH HIS COMMUNITY AFTER RESIGNING HIS LEADERSHIP IN THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION.

A LETTER WITH RACIST SENTIMENTS IS ONE OF THE REASONS HE WALKED AWAY AND HERE HE IS SPEAKING TO MICHEL MARTIN.

PASTOR RUSSELL MOORE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME, MICHEL.

OBVIOUSLY, MANY PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR WORK, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT, I MEAN, YOU HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE MOST HIGH-PROFILE EVANGELICAL LEADERS IN THE COUNTRY FOR MANY YEARS NOW.

FOR SOME PEOPLE YOU PROBABLY ARE THE FACE OF THE EVANGELICAL MOVEMENT.

WHEN DID IT START TO GO WRONG FOR YOU?

WHEN DID THINGS INTERNALLY START TO CHANGE?

WHEN DID YOU START TO NOTICE SOME FRICTION THERE?

WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT THINGS WENT WRONG.

I THINK IN SOME WAYS THINGS WENT VERY RIGHT IN THAT I CAME TO SEE NEW WAYS TO EQUIP CHRISTIANS AND GOD DOING A NEW THING AND FRANKLY WITHIN THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION THE POEM IN THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION WERE OVERWHELMINGLY, NOT JUST SUPPORTIVE BUT -- BUT BEYOND SUPPORTIVE AND LOVING AND AFFIRMING.

MY BOARD WAS AS WELL.

I THINK THAT WHAT I WAS STARTING TO SEE WAS THE SAME THING THAT VIRTUALLY, I MEAN, ALMOST EVERY PASTOR I'M TALKING TO RIGHT NOW IS SEEING WHICH IS A CONGREGATION WHERE THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO LOVE EACH OTHER, REALLY WANT TO FOLLOW CHRIST AND -- AND SOMETIMES THERE'S A VERY SMALL GROUP WITHIN THAT CONGREGATION THAT DOESN'T WANT TO AND THAT CREATES A DIFFERENT KIND OF TEMPERATURE IN THE ROOM, AND SO WHAT A PASTOR HAS TO DECIDE IS DO I CONTINUE WORKING TOWARD CHANGE IN THIS CONGREGATION WHICH IS USUALLY THE WAY TO GO, OR ANOTHER WAY TO SAY MAYBE I SHOULD BE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

SO WHY DID YOU RESIGN?

BECAUSE I STARTED TO SEE GOD DOING SOMETHING NEW IN TERMS OF PUTTING PEOPLE TOGETHER FROM MULTIPLE DENOMINATIONS THAT HAVE THE SAME CONCERN SO I WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION EVERY SINGLE DAY WITH ANGLICANS AND PRESBYTERIANS AND NON-DENOMINATIONAL PEOPLE AND OTHERS WHO WERE SAYING IT SEEMS TO ME WE HAVE A MOMENT WHERE WE NEED TO PUT THE GOSPEL FIRST AND WE NEED TO PUT THE KINGDOM FIRST AND WE NEED EACH OTHER TO DO THAT SO CHRISTIANITY TODAY BEING THE WAY THAT -- THAT THE EVANGELICAL MOVEMENT ESSENTIALLY LAUNCHED IN -- IN THE POST-WAR ERA, I THINK WE HAVE A VERY SIMILAR MOMENT RIGHT NOW.

SO YOU'RE FOCUSING VERY MUCH ON WHAT YOU'RE GOING TOWARD, PERFECTLY UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT I HAVE TO SAY YOUR RESIGNATION LETTER LANDED LIKE A ROCKET.

IT WAS LEAKED.

I DON'T KNOW WHO LEAKED IT.

I KNOW THAT WE'VE ALL READ IT.

YOU'VE NOT DENIED THAT IT IS YOUR WORDS.

IT'S BLISTERING.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY BLISTERING.

YOU SAY THAT THE PRESENTING ISSUE IS NOT THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

YOU SAY THE PRESENTING ISSUE WAS THE WAY THAT THE DENOMINATION, THE LEADERSHIP WAS DEALING WITH SEXUAL ABUSE, THING ONE, BUT YOU ALSO SAY THAT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY FACED CONSTANT THREATS FROM WHITE NATIONALISTS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS INCLUDING WITHIN THE CONVENTION.

DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT?

YES, YES.

THAT WASN'T A RESIGNATION LETTER.

IT WAS A LETTER THAT I HAD WRITTEN TO MY BOARD MEMBERS.

JUST THEY PRAYED WITH ME AND I WAS HELPING THEM TO SEE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE GOING OFF.

YES, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE ARE VERY REAL ISSUES WITHIN THE CHURCH IN ALMOST EVERY DENOMINATION OR COMMUNION OR SETTING RIGHT NOW WHEN IT COMES TO THESE ISSUES OF RACIAL JUSTICE AND RECONCILIATION AND SEXUAL ABUSE.

I MEAN, I'M FINDING THIS AS RECENTLY AS JUST RIGHT BEFORE THIS -- THIS INTERVIEW TALKING TO A PASTOR WHO IS COMBATING THIS WITHIN THE CONGREGATION, AND IT CAN BE EXHAUSTING.

IT CAN BE DEMORALIZING, BUT IT ALSO MEANS THAT THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT.

I HEAR YOU, BUT IT'S -- IT IS DISTURBING.

I MEAN, WHEN DID YOU START TO SEE THESE THINGS?

I MEAN, HAS THIS BEEN KIND OF A LITTLE HOME ALL ALONG SORT OF LIKE THE PILOT LIGHT IN YOUR FUR FACE THAT'S ALWAYS THERE OR WAS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU BECAME NEWLY AWARE OF BECAUSE OF THE PROMINENCE OF YOUR POSITION?

WELL, I THINK -- I THINK THAT ISSUES OF RACIAL JUSTICE PARTICULARLY HAD ALWAYS BEEN DISTURBING TO ME.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I WENT THROUGH A SPIRITUAL CRISIS AS A 15-YEAR-OLD WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT BIBLE BELT CHRISTIANITY AND SEEING A LOT OF VERY BLATANT RACISM AND WONDERING HOW CAN THESE TWO THINGS GO TOGETHER?

UP CANNOT READ THE BIBLE AND SEE THE ACTIONS OF JESUS AND SEEING THE SORT OF CHURCH THAT JESUS PUTS TOGETHER AND COME TO THIS KIND OF CONCLUSION, THAT RACISM IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN MORALLY WRONG, AND SO THAT'S BEEN A CONCERN FOR ME FOR -- FOR ALL OF MY LIFE.

I THINK THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE RATTLED BY SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING IN TERMS OF SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE TREATMENT OF SEXUAL ABUSE SURVIVORS AND -- AND COVER-UPS TAKING PLACE.

AGAIN, NOT JUST IN ONE SETTING AND NOT JUST EVEN WITHIN A CHURCH SETTING BUT WITHIN -- WITHIN MULTIPLE SETTINGS IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW, BUT THE CHURCH IS CALLED TO BETTER SO WE OUGHT TO BE THE PLACE THAT IS THE TOUGHEST ON SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE PLACE THAT IS THE MOST CARING FOR SURVIVORS AND VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE MUST DO BETTER.

I REMEMBER HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH A GROUP OF EVANGELICAL WOMEN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, AND ONE OF THE WOMEN THERE SAID IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHEN YOU'RE SEEING SOME OF THESE REVELATIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE WITH SOME HIGH-PROFILE SCANDALS, SOME HIGH-PROFILE COVER-UPS, IT SEEMS THAT YOU'RE RATTLED BY THAT, AND WE WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT NONE OF US ARE SURPRISED BY THIS, AND THE ENTIRE ROOMFUL OF WOMEN WERE NODDING THEIR HEADS AND THAT WAS A -- THAT WAS REALLY A KEY MOMENT FOR ME IN SEEING -- IN SEEING JUST HOW -- JUST HOW DEEP SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS GO.

YOU SAID EARLIER THAT THIS IS A MINORITY OF PEOPLE WITHIN THE CONVENTION, WITHIN THE DENOMINATION, WITHIN THE UNIVERSE, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF MAKES SENSE.

SOUTHERN BAPTISTS AT LEAST TO THE CURRENT MOMENT HAVE BEEN THE LARGEST PROTESTANT DENOMINATION SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE AREAS IN WHICH YOU HAVE CONSTANTLY FACED CRITICISM WITHIN YOUR MOVEMENT HAVE BEEN WHEN YOU SURFACED THESE ISSUES, WHEN YOU HAVE PUBLICLY CALLED FOR DIVERSITY IN THE LEADERSHIP OF CONVENTION.

WERE YOU CRITICIZED WITH THAT.

WHEN YOU HAVE SHOWCASED WOMEN WHO HAVE WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH SEXUAL MISCONDUCT, YOU WERE CRITICIZED FOR THAT.

MM-HMM.

IN FACT, YOU SAY IN YOUR LETTER THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF MY SERVICE I'VE BEEN ATTACKED WITH THE MOST VICIOUS GRILLA TACTICS ON THIS AND HAVE BEEN TOLD TO BE QUIET ABOUT THIS BY OTHERS, YOU SAID THAT YOU'VE HEARD THE MOST VICIOUS RACIST COMMENTS LIKE BEHIND THE SCENES, SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN HOW CAN YOU SAY, FORGIVE ME, THAT IT'S NOT SOMEHOW DEFINING OR PERVASIVE WITHIN THE MOVEMENT.

HOW CAN BOTH OF THOSE THINGS BE TRUE?

WELL, I THINK BOTH OF THOSE THINGS CAN BE TRUE BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE DENOMINATION AS A WHOLE WOULD DO WHEN THEY WOULD COME TOGETHER IN THEIR -- IN THEIR ANNUAL MEETINGS, THEY WOULD NOT BE IN ANY WAY IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, IS IN -- I WAS OFTEN SURPRISED AT JUST HOW STRONG THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION WOULD END UP BEING N THE JUAN MEETINGS IN TERMS OF SUPPORT FOR RACIAL RECONCILIATION AND JUSTICE ARE AND STANDING UP FOR SEXUAL ABUSE SURVIVORS.

THAT WASN'T THE PROBLEM.

THE PROBLEM WAS WHAT WAS HAPPENING BETWEEN MEETINGS, AND -- AND -- AND I FOUND THAT THAT'S THE CASE IN A NUMBER OF INSTITUTIONS RIGHT NOW WHERE SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE MOST OBSESSED WITH THE POLITICS, THE INTERNAL POLITICS TEND TO BE THE HEAT HEALTHY PEOPLE AND VICE VERSA.

WHAT ROLE DO YOU THINK RACE PLAYS IN THIS?

I MEAN, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT RACE HAS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOSPEL?

IS IT POSSIBLE?

IN -- IN SOME SECTORS I THINK IT CERTAINLY HAS AND THIS IS NOT NEW THOUGH.

YOU LOOK BACK AT THE NEW TESTAMENT, YOU'RE GOING TO FIND SO MUCH OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THIS VERY QUESTION, WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO IDOLIZE THE FLESH AND EXERCISE DOMINION OVER ONE ANOTHER OR WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE PART OF ONE BODY AND ONE FELLOWSHIP.

THIS IS -- THIS IS A REPEATED ISSUE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, AND IT'S BEEN A REPEATED ISSUE THROUGHOUT HISTORY, SO IF YOU NOTICE EVEN WHAT WE TEND TO THINK OF AS THE CONTEMPORARY EVANGELICAL MOVEMENT HAPPENED IN THE 1940s AND '50s WITH A DIVERGING OF THOSE WHO WANTED TO BE SEPARATISTS, FUNDAMENTALISTS AND THOSE WHO WANTED TO BE GOSPEL-FOCUSED, GOSPEL-CENTERED EVANGELICALS.

THEY WERE -- IN MANY CASES THEY AGREED ON ALL THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE FAITH, BUT THEY DISAGREED VERY MUCH ABOUT THE WAYS THAT CULTURE CAN SHIFT AND CAN TAKE ANY RELIGION CAPTIVE.

I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY THE ISSUE.

YOU CAN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THAT WHITE EVANGELICALS WERE AMONG THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S STRONGEST CONSTITUENCIES.

YES.

THEY ARE AMONG MOST HESITANT RIGHT NOW TO EMBRACE PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES TO CONTAIN THE CORONAVIRUS, AND IT'S ALL THE MORE NOTEWORTHY BECAUSE THESE FOLKS WHO ESPOUSED AN ETHIC OF PROTECTING THE SANCTITY OF LIFE AND YET THEY HAVE PROVEN TO BE AMONG THE MOST UNWILLING TO TAKE MEASURES TO PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF SOME LIVES, OF VULNERABLE LIVES, AND WHY IS THAT?

WHY IS THAT?

I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK WE'RE IN A -- IN A MOMENT OF A KIND OF CRISIS OF CREDIBILITY.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO REPEATEDLY, AND FRANKLY WHAT TAKES UP MOST OF MY TIME AND ENERGY RIGHT NOW IS TALKING TO YOUNG EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS WHO ARE DISILLUSIONED AND WHO ARE FIGHTING AGAINST CYNICISM.

USUALLY NOT YIELDING TO IT, BUT FIGHTING AGAINST IT, AND THEY HAVE EVERY REASON TO IN MANY CASES SO WE REALLY HAVE A LONG PROJECT AHEAD OF US, OF REBUILDING EVANGELICAL CREDIBILITY ON THE BASIS OF BEING THE PEOPLE WHO -- WHO -- WHO ARE WHAT WE SAY WE ARE AND BELIEVE WHAT WE SAY WE BELIEVE.

I MEAN, THIS IS -- THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT WHEN I FIND THE SORT OF DISILLUSIONMENT TAKING PLACE AMONG YOUNGER CHRISTIANS, IT'S USUALLY NOT FOR THE REASONS THAT PEOPLE ASSUME, THAT THEY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHES.

IT'S INSTEAD JUST THE OPPOSITE.

THEY FEAR THAT THE CHURCH DOESN'T BELIEVE WHAT IT TEACHES, SO WE NEED TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSISTENT, WHO ARE WORKING TO MAINTAIN INTEGRITY AND CONSISTENCY ACROSS THE BOARD AND THAT MEANS -- THAT MEANS LOVING OUR NEIGHBOR WHEN IT COMES TO -- TO PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES AND SO FORTH AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS WHAT I FIND OFTEN WITH SECULAR PEOPLE IS THAT THEY ASSUME THAT THE PROBLEM HERE IS -- IS PASTORS, IS THE PASTORAL LEADERSHIP AND I'VE FOUND THAT NOT TONIGHT CASE.

THERE ARE SOME HIGH-PROFILE SORT OF PAST WHORS ARE ON TELEVISION WHO ARE TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO BE VACCINATED OR THAT THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL PROTECT YOU FROM COVID AND SO FORTH.

THAT'S VERY RARE THOUGH FROM WHAT I'M FINDING ON THE GROUND.

IN MOST CASES PASTORS ARE LEAVING HEROICALLY, NOT ONLY WITH THEIR OWN CHURCHES, BUT MANY ARE FACING REALLY SIGNIFICANT BACKLASH FROM, AGAIN, OFTEN SMALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE WITHIN CONGREGATIONS BUT A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE CAN CHANGE -- CAN CHANGE THE ENTIRE DYNAMIC SO THAT -- THAT'S A CHALLENGE AND A CRISIS FOR US RIGHT NOW.

IS THE FORMER PRESIDENT ACISM TOMORROW, OR IS HE, FORGIVE MYRICK THE DISEASE?

WAS HE THE SYMPTOM OR WAS HE THE CAUSE?

I THINK HE WAS -- I THINK HE WAS IN SOME WAYS A SYMPTOM AND IN SOME WAYS A DRIVER, AND BY DRIVER WHAT I MEAN IS SORT OF THE MODE OF DISCOURSE THAT NOW SEEMS NORMAL TO US, INCLUDING IN TERMS OF CHURCH LIFE.

I DON'T THINK HE CREATED THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT THE LAST FIVE YEARS HAVE -- HAVE NORMALIZED THAT, SO I'LL OFTEN TALK TO PASTORS WHO WILL FEEL AS THOUGH THEY ARE FAILURES BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT FACEBOOK FEEDS OF THEIR -- THEIR MEMBERS AND THEY SEE PEOPLE USING LANGUAGE AND SARCASM AND -- AND PERSONAL ATTACK IN WAYS THAT AREN'T CONSISTENT WITH THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT, BEATITUDES AND THEY SAY TO THEMSELVES WHERE DID I GO WRONG?

WELL, WE'RE LIVING IN A CULTURAL ECOSYSTEM WHERE THINGS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOCKING TO US JUST A FEW YEARS AGO HAVE NOW BECOME ROUTINE AND HAVE BECOME NORMAL.

I THINK THAT THAT'S A BIG, BIG PART OF THIS.

AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, THE SOUTHERN BAPTISTS HAVE BEEN THE COUNTRY'S LARGEST PROTESTANT DENOMINATION, BUT US A NOTE CONVENTION SAW ITS LARGEST SINGLE MEMBERSHIP DROP FROM 2018 TO 2019.

JUST LIKE THE 13th STRAIGHT YEAR OF DECLINE AS I UNDERSTAND IT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF REASONS FOR THAT, AND I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS IS -- YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO IS GROWING UP AT A TIME WHEN I WAS IS SOMEBODY WHO IS REALLY TAUGHT THAT ONE'S DENOMINATIONAL IDENTITY IS ONE'S IDENTITY ALMOST.

SECONDARY TO -- TO IDENTITY IN CHRIST BUT CERTAINLY PRESENT THERE IN A WAY THAT'S NOT THE CASE NOW SO THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL MOVE FROM -- FROM PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH TO METHODIST CHURCH TO BAPTIST CHURCH AND ANGLICAN CHURCH WITH RELATIVE EASE IN A WAY THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE, AND THEN YOU ADD TO THAT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT EARLIER WITH THE SORT OF CRISIS OF CREDIBILITY AND -- AND CYNICISM AND THE SORT OF DESPAIR THAT IS COMING TOWARD INSTITUTIONS THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE FEEL HAVE -- HAVE FAILED THEM, AND ALL THAT HAVE ADDS UP TO THE MOMENT THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN NOW.

DO YOU SEE YOUR MOVEMENT AS BEING ONE THAT CAN RECAPTURE PROMINENCE?

I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE IT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WROTE ABOUT IN YOUR EARLIER BOOKS 'ONWARD' IS ENGAGING THE CULTURE WITHOUT LOSING THE GOES TELL IS REALLY ABOUT ACCEPTING -- IF I CAN PUT IT AS BLUNTLY AS POSSIBLE, ACCEPTING THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE CORE PRINCIPLES THAT EVANGELICALS AT HERE TO ARE NOT SHARED BY THE BROADER SOCIETY.

THEY ARE JUST NOT.

NOT THE MAJORITY VIEW.

YEAH.

SOME PEOPLE SEE THE WAY OUR POLITICS RUN FOLDING IS A WAY FOR A MINORITY OF PEOPLE TO TRY TO DOMINATE THE MAJORITY WITH THEIR VIEWS.

YEAH.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR?

AND DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S POSSIBLE?

WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY SHOULD BE SEEKING TO DOMINATE ANYONE.

THE GOSPEL DOES NOT COME THROUGH COERCION.

IT COMES THROUGH PERSUASION A THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT SOMETIMES THERE'S A TENDENCY TO TRY TO FIND A GOLDEN AGE IN THE PAST WHERE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY WAS DOMINANT AND PROMINENT, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT I THINK WE NEED TO BE LOOKING TO.

INSTEAD, I THINK WE NEED TO BE LOOKING TO FOLLOWING CHRIST WHICH MEANS HAVING CONFIDENCE IN THE GOSPEL SUCH THAT WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO SEEK PROMINENCE OR TO COERCE PEOPLE OR TO BE SOME SORT OF A POLITICAL MOVEMENT AT THE TABLE BUT INSTEAD BE THE SORT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN BEAR WITNESS TO THE GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST AND THEN EMBODY THAT AND TO SHOW THAT.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

WELL, I THINK -- IT LOOKS LIKE CHURCHES THAT HOLD TO THEIR CONVICS AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER AND ARE ABLE TO DEAL WITH KINDNESS TOWARDS THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM AND WHO DON'T GET THEM, AND I THINK YOU SEE THAT IN -- IN COMMUNITIES ALL OVER, NOT JUST ALL OVER NORTH AMERICA BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH -- WITH CHRISTIANS WHO GENUINELY SEE THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM WHO DISAGREE WITH THEM NOT AS PEOPLE TO BE -- TO BE ATTACKED OR IN SOME SORT OF WAR WITH BUT AS PEOPLE TO -- TO OFF AND TO SERVE OF AND WE CAN TALK HONESTLY ABOUT WHERE WE HAVE DISAGREEMENTS BUT DO SO TRYING TO PERSUADE EACH OTHER, NOT TRYING TO SHUT ONE ANOTHER DOWN.

RUSSELL MOORE, PASTOR RUSSELL MOORE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.