Do Masks Provide as Much Protection as We Think?

> SO WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THE SPREAD T FEAR AND THE SEARCH FOR SOLUTIONS OVER THIS COVID AND DELTA VARIANT BUT WHAT DO WE REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE SCIENCE BEHIND IT?

WELL, A RECENT INTERNAL DOCUMENT FROM THE CDC REVEALS THAT IT IS AS CONTAGIOUS AS CHICKENPOX AND IT INCREASES THE RISK OF SEVERE ILLNESS AND HOSPITAL ZAX AS WE KNOW.

THE DIRECTOR FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY AT UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA IS HERE SPEAKING TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT HOW THE UNITED STATES SHOULD RESPOND AND WHAT CAN BE LEARNED FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

THANK YOU.

AND DR. MICHAEL OSCAR HOME.

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

THANK YOU.

I'M DOWN HERE IN NEW ORLEANS.

LIKE MUCH OF THE COUNTRY WE'RE FIGHTING THE DELTA VARIANT THAT'S COME ALONG.

WITH THAT DELTA VARIANT IT SPUN UP IN INDIA AND RAGED THROUGH THE COUNTRY AND THEN SUBSIDED.

AND IT SEEMS IT IS DOING THE SAME IN ENGLAND.

IS THERE A CHANCE THAT VARIANTS LIKE THIS JUST BURN THEMSELVES OUT?

ONE OF THE OBSERVATIONS WE'VE HAD WITH COVID AND SARS-CoV-2 SPECIFICALLY, THE VIRUS, IS IT SEEMS TO WANT TO RUN SPRINTS AND NOT MARATHONS.

WHAT I MEAN IS WE HAVE A WHOLE OVERLAPPING SET OF THESE KIND OF WHACK A MOLE SPRINT MOMENTS COUNTRY BY COUNTRY.

THIS PAST WEEK, IRAN IS IN ITS FIFTH SURGE REPORTING THE HIGHEST NUMBERS OF CASES SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

I CAN GO COUNTRY BY COUNTRY, REGION BY REGION AND SHOW YOU THE SAME THING THAT.

WITHOUT REGARD TO NECESSARILY WHAT THE HUMANS DO, YOU WILL SEE THESE BIG SURGES OF CASES OFTEN LASTING 5-8 WEEKS AND THEN IT JUST ENDS.

EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE STILL AS I SAY A LOT OF HUMAN WOOD FOR THIS CORONAVIRUS FOREST FIRE TO BURN.

AND THEN IT STARTS BACK UP AGAIN LATER.

AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE IN PUBLIC HEALTH PREVENTION IN MESSAGING TO THE PUBLIC IS TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND JUST THAT.

YOU JUST SAID IT SURGES AND THEN RECEDES IRRESPECTIVE AT TIMES OF WHAT HUMANS DO.

DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE SHOULD JUST ALL GET VACCINATE BUT NOT WORRY QUITE SO MUCH ABOUT SHUT DOWNS AND MASK MANDATES?

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, AGAIN WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT CAN WE REALLY DO ABOUT THE VIRUS?

CLEARLY IF WE ARE NOT IN CONTACT WITH OTHERS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET INFECTED OR TRANSMIT THE VIRUS.

SO DISTANCING CAN PLAY A KEY ROLE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DO ITS SPRINT OR A MARATHON.

I HAVE HAD CONCERNS AND I -- DATES BACK TO APRIL OF 2020 ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF MASKING.

NEEDLESS TO SAY AS THE POLITICAL HOT BUTTON BEYOND ANYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN IN PUBLIC HEALTH.

AND YET AT THE SAME TIME I THINK WE'VE ALL DONE A DISSERVICE TO THE PUBLIC.

WHEN YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT FACE CLOTH COVERINGS, THOSE CLOTH PIECES OF HANG OVER YOUR FACE.

THEY ACTUALLY ONLY HAVE VERY LIMITED IMPACT IN REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF VIRUS THAT YOU INHALE IN OR EXHALE OUT.

AND IN FACT IN STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE SHOW THAT IF AN INDIVIDUAL MIGHT GET INFECTED WITHIN 15 MINUTES IN A ROOM, BY TIME AND CONCENTRATION OF THE VIRUS IN THE ROOM.

ADD A FACE CLOTH COVERING YOU ONLY GET ABOUT FIVE MORE MINUTES OF PROTECTION.

I'VE BEEN REALLY DISAPPOINTED WITH MY COLLEAGUES IN PUBLIC HEALTH FOR NOT BEING MORE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT CAN MASKING DG OR NOT DO.

ON THE OTHER HAND IF YOU USE THE N95 RESPIRATORS AND FIT THEM FIGHT TO YOUR FACE, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SPEND 25 HOURS IN THAT SAME ROOM AND STILL BE PROTECTED.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALL BE USING N95.

I MEAN I GOT MY MASK HERE.

WITH A SAINTS LOGO ON IT.

I MEAN, IT SEEMS WE CAN'T JUST DO THAT.

WELL, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO.

THE SCIENCE IS FIRST.

AND THEN WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, THEN YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T DO.

THE BOTTOM LINE THOUGH IS BY TELLING PEOPLE THAT IN FACT JUST PUTTING A FACE CLOTH COVERING ON IS GOING TO PROTECT YOU IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

SO WHEN YOU ASK WHAT CAN YOU DO IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT ON N95 OR FELL LIKE YOU CAN'T, THAT IS YOUR CHOICE BUT BOTTOM LINE THE FACE CLOTH COVERING IS ONLY GOING TO PROVIDE YOU LIMITED PROTECTION.

SAME IS TRUE HOW YOU WEAR IT.

WE'VE BEEN DOING SURVEYS ON TELEVISION SCREEN SHOTS OF NEWS MEDIA EVENTS LOOKING AT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WEARING THE MASK OR CLOTH COVERING AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HOW DO THEY WEAR IT?

25% OF THE POPULATION CONSISTENTLY SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC WORE IT UNDER THE NOSE.

THAT IS LIKE FIXING THREE OF THE FIVE SCREEN DOORS IN YOUR SUBMARINE.

SO WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

DISTANCING WORKS.

EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE RESPIRATORY PROTECTION WORKS AND MOST OF ALL, VACCINE WORKS.

SO THERE IS A LOT WE STILL CAN DO.

IF WE HAVE PROTECTION AGAINST SERIOUS ILLNESS, EVEN IF THE VIRUS STARTS TO SPREAD ISN'T THAT GOING TO HELP SOLVE THIS?

IF ENOUGH OF US JUST DON'T GET ALL THAT STICK IF THE VIRUS SPREADS AND IT IS A LITTLE LIKE A MILD CASE OF THE FLU?

YOU KNOW THAT IS A CRITICAL POINT.

I'M QUOTED IN THE NEW YORKER ARTICLE POSTED YESTERDAY JUST THAT VERY PIECE.

ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH WE'VE STILL GAINED FROM THESE VACCINES.

ITS BEEN REMARKABLE IN THE REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF DEATHS.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT ENGLAND.

IF YOU LOOK AT ISRAEL.

THAT IS THE CASE.

THE ONE THING HOWEVER WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL OF AGAIN, AND THIS IS AGAIN TRYING TO SEE A INTO TOO FUSMT EVERY MORNING FIRST THING I DO IS GET UP AND TRY TO SCRAPE THE FOUR INCHES OF MUD OFF MY CRYSTAL BALL AND THEN GO TO WORK.

AND IN THIS CASE IF WE LOOK AT ISRAEL, WHAT THEY HAVE FOUND IS A RATHER RAPID REDUCTION IN THE PREVENTION TO GET SERIOUS ILLNESS AFTER SIX MONTHS.

SO EVEN THERE WE ARE SEEING THIS WANE IN IMMUNITY HAVING IMPACT ON WHETHER YOU GET SERIOUS ILLNESS OR NOT, WHICH IS ALL THE REASON WHY YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP HEARING MUCH MORE IN THE DAYS AHEAD ABOUT BOOSTER DOSES.

THAT IS WHY THE ISRAELIS ARE INITIATED BOOSTER DOSES FOR THOSE OVER 60 AND THOSE WITH UNDERLYING IMMUNE CONDITIONS.

AND I THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN HERE.

AND THEN WE CAN MAINTAIN THE HIGH LEVEL OF PROTECTION AGAINST SERIOUS ILLNESS AND DEATH WHICH IS A TREMENDOUS GIFT IN TERMS OF FIGHTING THE VIRUS.

YOU MENTIONED SOCIAL DISTANCING.

HOW REALISTIC IS IT TODAY TO GET AS BACK TO SOCIAL DISTANCING?

FIRST WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT HAS A DIFFERENT MEANING THAN IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A SIX FOOT DISTANCE.

PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS TRANSPLANTED BY RESPIRATORY DROPLETS AND FALLING WITHIN SIX FEET OF US.

TODAY THAT IS NOT THE SCIENCE THAT WE KNOW.

WE KNOW THESE ARE TRANSMITTED WITH AEROSOLS.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

ALL THOSE PLEXIGLASS PLATES YOU SAW THAT WERE PUT UP THAT SUPPOSEDLY SEPARATED YOU FROM ME WITH SIX FEET HAVE NO REAL PURPOSE TODAY AT ALL.

THE AEROSOLS TO UNDERSTAND REALLY ARE THE BEST WAY I CAN TELL PEOPLE TO DO IT.

IF YOU ARE IN A ROOM WITH SOMEONE AND THEY ARE SMOKING AND YOU SMELL IT, YOU ARE GETTING BASICALLY INHALED AEROSOLS IN.

WALKING DOWN THE STREET, YOU KNOW, I JUST HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME THE PAST WEEKEND WHERE ALL OF A SUDDEN I SMELLED CIGARETTE SMOKE AND I LOOKED AROUND AND I WAS DOWNWIND FROM SOMEBODY 20 FEET FROM ME ON THE SIDE OF THE SIDEWALK SMOKING.

AND NOW, IN THAT CASE YOU WOULDN'T LIKELY GET INFECTED FROM JUST THAT EXPOSURE.

AS THE TIME CONCENTRATION.

BUT WE NOW HAVE EVIDENCE THAT WITH THE DELTA VARIANT IN PARTICULAR, IT MAY WITH JUST A FEW MINUTES OF EXPOSURE BEFORE YOU GET INFECTED.

SO WHEN I SAY SOCIAL DISTANCE, I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU DO HAVE TO BE APART FROM SOMEONE SUFFICIENTLY THAT YOU WOULDN'T SMELL THEIR CIGARETTE SMOKE.

NOW, THAT IS A LOT LONGER THAN SIX FEET IN MOST CASES.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

EVERYBODY CAN'T DO THAT.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH SPACE IN THE WORLD AND PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO DO IT ON MASS TRANSIT.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT IN GROCERY STORES, ETC.

SO THEN I SAY WELL, HOW LIKELY IF YOU GET INFECTED YOU MIGHT HAVE A VERY SERIOUS ILLNESS?

ARE YOU OLDER?

WHAT IS YOUR BODY WEIGHT?

DO YOU HAVE UNDERLYING IMMUNE DEFISHES OR IMMUNE SUPPRESSION BECAUSE OF THE DRUGS YOU ARE TAKING OR HEALTH CONDITION.

AND THEN I SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND PEOPLE ANY PERIOD OF TIME WITHOUT AN N95 RESPIRATOR AND THAT DISTANCE.

I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO APPLY TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

IT JUST CAN'T HAPPEN.

IT WON'T HAPPEN.

AND THAT IS THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE TODAY.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT RECENT STUDIES THAT THAT SHOW COGNITIVE PROBLEMS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVED COVID?

I DON'T THINK ANYONE REALLY YET UNDERSTANDS THE LEGACY OF COVID-19 WELL INTO GENERATIONS AHEAD.

I THINK THE ISSUES AROUND LONG COVID OR LONG HAULERS IS GOING TO BE A VERY SUBSTANTIAL ISSUE.

AND I THINK THE COGNITIVE DISFUNCTION IS GOING TO BE PART OF IT.

I THINK THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE MUCH, MUCH MORE COMING FROM THIS FIGHT BETWEEN OUR BODIES' IMMUNE SYSTEMS AND THIS VIRUS AND WHAT ITS DONE TO ALL THE REST OF OUR BODY.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE LIKE A CASTLE THAT'S BEEN TAKING INCOMING FROM THIS VIRUS AND THEN WE'VE FOUGHT BACK.

AND IN THE PROCESS WE BOTH DID DAMAGE TO OUR CASTLE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS A CHALLENGE.

AND I DO WORRY A LOT ABOUT THESE LONG HAULER-LIKE CONDITIONS, WHICH COGNITIVE DISFUNCTION IS ONE OF'EM.

DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA JUST TO PUSH AS HARD AS WE POSSIBLY CAN TO CONVINCE AND IN SOME CASES NUDGE PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED AND FORGET ABOUT ALL THE OTHER PERIPHERAL STUFF THAT WE DON'T EVEN QUITE KNOW IF IT WORKS?

WELL I THINK AGAIN VACCINE IS AT THE VERY FOUNDATIONAL ASPECTS OF ANYTHING WE DO TO CHANGE THIS PANDEMIC.

LET HE JUST SAY THOUGH I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS 46 YEARS.

I HAVE SPENT MY CAREER PROMOTING VACCINES.

I ACTUALLY HELPED WRITE THE LEGISLATION HERE IN MINNESOTA IN THE 1980s TO LEGISLATE VACCINES FOR INSTITUTIONS IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

I HAVE BEEN IN THE FOREFRONT OF THIS.

AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME LESSOPS LEARNED FROM CHILDHOOD IMMUNIZATIONS AND APPLY THEM HERE.

THEY JUST DON'T APPLY.

THIS IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

WITH HAVE THREE GROUPS OF PEOPLE TODAY.

THEY ARE THE VACCINE AFFIRMATIVE.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DROVE 120 MILES IN FEBRUARY SNOW STORMS TO FIND VACCINE IN A CLINIC SOME REMOTE TOWN.

THEY COULDN'T WAIT TO GET IT.

THEN THE VACCINE HESITANT.

THE GROUP THAT AT THIS POINT THEY HAVE STILL LEGITIMATE CONCERNS.

THIS ISN'T A LICENSED VACCINE.

I AM A PREGNANT WOMAN.

I AM A MEMBER OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY WHO'S BEEN EXPERIMENTED UPON BY GOVERNMENT.

AND THIS WAS OPERATIONAL WARP SPEEDY AND IT IS NOT A LICENSED VACCINE.

ALL REALLY LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS AND THEN THERE IS THE THIRD GROUP.

THE VACCINE HOSTILE.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO UNDER NO CONDITIONS WILL BE VACCINATED IN ANY WAY AGAINST THEIR WILL.

AND THEY ARE A GROUP THAT MANY CASES DON'T EVEN BELIEVE THE PANDEMIC IS REAL, ETC.

THE VACCINE HOSTILE, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET.

YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO DO TO NOT GET VACCINATED THEY WILL DO IT.

THE IT IS VACCINE HESITANT RIGHT NOW THAT WE NEED TO REALLY FOCUS ON.

AND CONVERT THOSE PEOPLE TO VACCINE RECIPIENTS.

AND WE'RE ACTUALLY MAKING PROGRESS THERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE MORE INFORMATION WE GET ON THE VACCINES IN TERMS OF LICENSURE I THINK IS GOING TO HELP A LOT.

WE DO HAVE STOPS AND STAR STARTS.

THE LAST 72 HOURS I'VE TAKE AN NUMBER OF QUESTIONS FROM PEOPLE.

TELEWAIT WHY WOULD I GET THIS VACCINE NOW?

BECAUSE I CAN STILL TRANSMIT THE VIRUS?

SO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF IT, LATE OW WHY THIS IS STILL A VERY IMPORTANT TOOL WHAT THAT MEANS BUT I THINK THE VACCINE HESITANT GROUP THAT IF WE CAN BRING THEM ALONG, THAT IS GOING TO BE A GROUP THAT WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT.

I WANT TO YOU LOOK INTO THE CAMERA AND GIVE A GREAT ONE SENTENCE PITCH TO A VACCINE HESITANT PERSON.

IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT YOURSELF, YOU CAN SAY I DON'T SEE THIS VACCINE.

I'M STRONG ENOUGH.

BUT IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE ONES YOU LOVE, YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR COLLEAGUES, YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER, GRANDFATHER, YOUR KIDS, YOU WILL GET THIS VACCINE.

SHOULD RESTAURANTS REQUIRE VACCINES?

I WOULD SAY EVERY PLACE RIGHT NOW.

I DO THAT.

I, FOR EXAMPLE, THOUGH HAVE NOT SUPPORTED A VACCINE MANDATE AT OUR OWN INSTITUTION, THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE IN MINNESOTA LAW, THE WAY VACCINE EXEMPTIONS ARE SET UP IN OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS, YOU HAVE TO OFFER DEFERMENTS FOR MEDICAL REASONS AND FOR PHILOSOPHICAL REASONS.

SO ALL I HAVE TO DO IS SIGN A SHEET OF PAPER AND SAY I'M DONE, I'M NOT GETTING IT.

HAVE IT NOTARIZED AND I'M EXEMPT.

AND IF WE PUT A MANDATE IN PLACE TODAY, WE'VE HEARD FROM SOME OF THOSE VERY COMMUNITIES I JUST MENTIONED.

THE BLACK COMMUNITY, SAID IF YOU MENTION THE WORD MANDATE WE'RE DONE.

WE'RE GOING TO SIGN OFF AND NOT GET IT.

WE NEED TIME TO BRING PEOPLE ALONG.

THIS ISN'T A CAMPAIGN LIKE WE USE FOR CHILDHOOD IMMUNIZATIONS WHERE IT MAY TAKE YEARS BEFORE WE'RE ABLE TO GET VACCINE LEVELS UP.

LOOK AT EVEN IN ADULTS WITH VACCINES LIKE SHINGLES OR HPV HOW LONG ITS TAKEN US TO GET PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY TAKE THE VACCINE.

HERE WE'RE NOW EXPECTING IN JUST A FEW MONTHS FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

IF WE PUT IN PLACE A MANDATE IN OUR STATE IN COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITY, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE SIGN THAT EXEMPTION AND WE'LL NEVER GET'EM BACK.

AND THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE TRYING TO GET ON BOARD.

SO I THINK THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE FOR MANDATES.

I HAVE SO TAY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I STARTED HERE IN MINNESOTA BACK IN THE MID 1970s WAS AT THE HEYDAY OF THE INDOOR AIR ACT AND CLEAN AIR.

AND WE HEARD FROM BARS AND RESTAURANTS AROUND THE STATE, OH MY GOD.

IF YOU PUT IN PLACE NON SMOKING, WE'RE DONE.

WE'RE COOKED.

WE CAN'T MAKE IT.

WELL IT TURNED OUT PEOPLE HAD FORGOTTEN THE 30% OF SMOKERS WERE VERY DIFFERENT THAN 70% OF PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T SMOKE AND THEY COULDN'T WAIT TO GET TO A BAR OR RESTAURANT THAT WAS ACTUALLY SMOKE FREE AND BUSINESS WENT UP.

SO I THINK RIGHT NOW IF YOU HAD RESTAURANTS AND BARS, YOU HAD VENUES WHERE PEOPLE REQUIRED TO BE VACCINATED SHOW THAT.

THAT YOU WOULD ACTUALLY SEE PARTICIPATION SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE BEYOND ANYTHING ELSE.

I'D FEEL SAFE TO GO THERE TODAY.

I WOULDN'T FEEL SAFE TO GO TO A RESTAURANT TODAY WHERE THAT WASN'T THE CASE.

THE MUSIC VENUES HERE IN NEW ORLEANS HAVE ALL JUST DECIDED TO SAY YOU NEED TO SHOW ON YOUR PHONE THAT YOU'RE VACCINATED.

AND THAT'S CAUSED AN UP TICK IN PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATED.

THEY WANT TO GO HEAR MUSIC.

I LOVE THAT.

THAT IS THE INCENTIVE PIECE.

THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO GO AT THIS.

THERE IS VINEGAR AND THERE IS HONEY.

AND YOU KNOW, WHEREVER YOU CAN USE HONEY WE'VE SHONE IN PUBLIC HEALTH TIME AND TIME AGAIN IT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO GO.

YOU SAY THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE CAN DO TO PROTECT OUR HEALTH IN FACE OF THIS VIRUS IS TO GET VACCINATED.

WHAT ABOUT CHILDREN, YOUNG CHILDREN?

YOUNG CHILDREN RIGHT NOW ARE A CHALLENGE.

WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.

WE NEED TO GET VACCINE FOR THOSE CHILDREN.

YOU KNOW, THESE STUDIES CAN'T GET DONE QUICK ENOUGH.

BUT ALSO WALTER, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES I HAVE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES OF HUMILITY.

IS THE FACT THAT HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE RICHES OF THE HIGH INCOME COUNTRIES ARE DEBATING WHETHER TO HAVE A BOOSTER DOSE, A THIRD DOSE AND WE HAVE 6.4 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME COUNTRIES AND LESS THAN 2% HAVE HAD ACCESS TO ANY DOSES AND WE CAN SURELY MAKE AN ARGUMENT ON HUMANITARIAN BASIS THE CRITICAL NEED TO GET VACCINE TO THE COUNTRIES.

BUT ALSO IN A VERY IMPORTANT WAY IS THE FACT THAT THESE NEW VARIANTS ARE NOT AS LIKELY TO COME SPINNING OUT OF A SMALLER POPULATION EXPERIENCE LIKE THE UNITED STATES.

BUT THEY SURELY COULD SPIN OUT IN LARGE NUMBERS IN THESE INFECTIONS AMONG THE 6.4 BILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME COUNTRIES.

SO IT IS IN OUR STRATEGIC INTEREST TO GET VACCINE TO THESE COUNTRIES JUST TO TRY TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF OUR VACCINATIONS TODAY.

SO I THINK WE HAVE LOT OF WORK TO DO.

AS I'VE SIDE.

AND FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS HISTORIAN AND EXPERT IN THIS, WE NEED A MANHATTAN PROJECT NOW TO MAKE VACCINES.

WE NEED A WHOLE LOT OF MARSHAL PLANS TO GET IT DELIVERED.

AND DO YOU THINK VERY YOUNG CHILDREN SHOULD BE AUTHORIZED NOW TO BE VACCINATED?

I DON'T THINK THE DATA ARE THERE YET TO PROVIDE THE SATISFACTORY SAFETY INFORMATION THAT ARE GOING TO BE REQUIRED.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING PARENTS TO BUY THIS VACCINE FOR THEIR KIDS FOR A NUMBER OF THEM.

SOME PARENTS CAN'T GET IT QUICK ENOUGH.

BUT THERE ARE GOING TO BE A LOT OF PARENTS AND I'VE SEEN THE KIND OF COMMUNICATIONS FROM THESE PATIENTS THAT SAY NO WAY ARE MY KIDS GOING TO GET VACCINATED.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE AB EXPERIMENT.

SO THIS IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE.

WE'LL HAVE SCHOOLS WHERE SOME ARE VACCINATED AND SOME KIDS WON'T.

WE HAVE TO ANTICIPATE THAT NOW.

WHAT CAN WE DO NOW TO HELP BASICALLY PROVIDE THE SUPPORT T EDUCATION THE INFORMATION.

THE OTHER THING HAPPENING I THINK IS A GAME CHANGER IS IN THE FIRST YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC RIGHT UP THROUGH THE TIME WHEN THE ALPHA VARIANTS REALLY STARTED TO EMERGE, WE DID SEE A VERY DIFFERENT EPIDEMIOLOGY OF INFECTION IN KIDS.

IT WAS MUCH LESS INFECTIOUS.

KIDS DID NOT TRANSMIT NEARLY AS READILY BETWEEN THEMSELVES OR OTHERS OR DID THEY GET INFECTED?

WE DIDN'T SEE NEARLY THE SAME SPECTACULAR OF SERIOUS ILLNESS.

THAT ALL CHANGED WITH ALPHA.

AND NOW WITH DELTA IT IS EVEN ACCENTUATED.

AND SO I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE DATA WE HAD A YEAR AGO ON KIDS AND INFECTION DOESN'T HOLD UP TODAY AND THE DATA TODAY SAYS KIDS ARE A LOT HIGHER RISK OF GETTING INFECTED, OF TRANSMITTING THE VIRUS AND POTENTIALLY EVEN HAVING SERIOUS ILLNESS.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

THANKS WALTER.