August 18, 2021

> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'

HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.

WELL, I HELP AMERICAN DOWN THERE IN BATTLEFIELD AND NOW IN.

I NEED HELP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

THE RACE TO EVACUATE DESPERATE AFGHANS.

I SPEAK TO DAVID MILIBAND, HEAD OF THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE ABOUT URGENT NEED FOR MASSIVE AIR LIFT.

PLUS.

PAIN AND SUFFERING.

OSCAR WINNING FILM MAKER BARRY JENKINS ON HIS FIRST EMMY NOMINATION FOR HIS EPIC 'UNDERGROUND RAILROAD'.

AND THIS.

THIS IS A RISK I KNEW WHEN --

TALKING TO DIRECTOR ON HER THE COVID PANDEMIC.RMATION AND

> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MAD- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

FAMILY.RYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

KU AND PATRICIA EWING, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCE.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON, PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON IS THE FIRST ALLIED LEADER PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS CALLED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE LOOMIN.

AND THE URGENT NEED TO AIR LIFT OUT TENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VULNERABLE COALITION EFFORT THERE.R THE MEANWHILE DEPOSED AFGHAN PRESIDENT ASHRAF GHANI IS SAFE IN THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES AFTER FLEEING THE COUNTRY JUST HOURS BEFORE THE TALIBAN ENTEREN KABUL.

WHILE TALIBAN NEGOTIATORS HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH THE FORMER AFGHAN PRESIDENT KARZAI AND DR.. THIS ON A TRANSITION OF POWER.

FROM THE UNITED STATES TO WAY.TICAL WRANGLING IS UNDER OVER HOW MANY DESPERATE AFGHANS EACH COUNTRY WILL AGREE TO TAKE.

EMERGENCY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT IN WOMEN'S IRAND AFGHAN REFUGE AND FORMER INTERPRETER APPEALEDO ARE STILL IN KABUL.

I AM IN REAL TROUBLE.

JUST BECAUSE OF MY WORK WITH THE UK GOVERNMENT.

DO NOT PUNISH MY FAMILY.

DO NOT LEAVE THEM BEHIND THAT IE LOSS OF LIFE.

IF ANYTHING HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY, HOW CAN I LIVE THAT LIF?

YOU KNOW.

HARD. REALLY HARD IT IS REALLY I AM STRUGGLING.

I AM STILL STRUGGLING.

THE STORY TOLD IN THOSE FEW WORDS AND A MOMENT I'LL ASK DAVID MILLABAN WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY MUST DO.

HE HOPES THE WORLD DOESN'T LOOK AWAY FROM AFGHANISTAN IN MORE NEED NOW THAN EVER BEFORE.

CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE COUNTRY'S LARGEST MEDIA ORGANIZATION, WHICH IS OPERATING DESPITE THE ODDS IN AFGHANISTAN RIGHT NOW.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

CAN I JUST FIRST ASK YOU BECAUSE NEGOTIATIONS WITH KARZAI ANDE ABDULLAH WHO ARE TALKING TO THE POWER.N ABOUT A TRANSITION OF US A ABOUT THAT?G YOU CAN TELL IS THAT MOVING FORWARD AND WHAT?

ASHRAF GHANI FLED.S BEFORE AT THE TIME THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A TWO WEEK TRANSITION.

TALIBAN PLEDGED NOT TO ENTER THE CITY BECAUSE THEY ALSO FELT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO KEEP A CITY OF SEVEN MILLION SECURE SYSTEM.ED THE COLLAPSE OFNI SO TODAY I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH MORE PRESIDENT KARZAI AND ABDULLAH ABDULLAH CAN DO BUT I THINK THEY ARE OPEN TO THE IDEA OF BEING HELPFUL TO THE TALIBAN.

THEY MET WITH ONE OF THE MILITARY COMMANDERS TWO NIGHTSA.

BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH LEVERAGE THEY HAVE GIVEN THE TALIBAN HAVE ABSOLUTE CONTROL O.

CAN I JUST QUICKLY ASK YOUBE.

I ASKED THE TALIBAN SPOKESMAN WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE HAD ENCOUNTERED HIM IN THEHEY PALACE.

AND HE SAID WE WOULD HAVE BACK OR KEEP POWER.RITY AS LONGT AND DID MENTION WE'VE WITHIN GUARANTEEING THE SECURITY OF TH.

ARE YOU SAYING THERE WAS REALLY.

BECAUSE HE MADE IT A LIFE AND TERMS OF HIS FIRST PLACEMENT.

-- PUBLIC STATEMENT.

SOMEHOW THIS GROUP OF TALIBANWHE ALL COVERED BEFORE WAS ACTUALLY- OF TRANSITIONAL AGREEMENT WITH OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLE? FACTIONS

WHAT I UNDERSTAND ASHRAF GHANI WAS PROMISED BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THAT HE WOULD HAVE A SAFE PASSAGE ON THE COMPLETION OF THE TRANSITION PERIOD, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO WEEKS OR A WEEK OR TEN DAYS.

BUT MORE IMPORTANT THAT BE THAT, AS A PRESIDENT OF A COUNTRY, HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THE GOOD WILL OF HIS PEOPLE AND WHAT WAS IMPORTANT FOR HIS NATION AND HE PLEDGED MANY TIMES THAT HE WOULD NEVER LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

BUT WHAT HE DID WAS SELFISH.

IT WAS COWARDLY.

AND IT DID TRIGGER WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY.

THE SCENES OF THE AIRPORT COULD GHANI HAD STAYED ON.IF ASHRAF THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE, AT LEAST.

SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

THE TALIBAN HAVE SAID THEY WOUL.

YES IT IS CHAOTIC.

YES THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THE GUARANTEES OF SAFETY AND ABILITY TO CONTINUE AS THE TALIBAN HAVE MADE PUBLICLY OVER THE LAST 448E BEEN IN CONTROL.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS A DIFFEREN?

DO YOU THINK THEY ARE TRYING BECAUSE THE U.S. ALSO SAYS THAT THEY ARE IN TOUCH WITH THEM, THOSE INSIDE THE AIRPORT ARE IN TOUCH WITH THE TALIBAN OUTSIDE MESSY AS IT IS IS CONTINUING.

AIRPORT.RE GETTING INTO THE AND WAITING OBVIOUSLY FOR AN AI.

THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANE.

THE AIRPORT. ABLE TO GET INTO PERHAPS THE TRANSLATORS CAN.

BUT MEMBERS OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY AND THE MEDIA, PEOPLE WE'RE IN THE AIRPORT.ANNOT GET CLOSE TO THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE AIRPORT TRYING TO GET IN.

SO UNLESS YOU HAVE SPECIAL BUSSES AND SPECIAL WAYS OF GETTING INTO THE AIRPORT ON THE MILITARY SIDE YOU CANNOT GET IN.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

FAULT. IS NOT THE TALIBAN'S IT IS COMPLETE MAYHEM AROUND TH.

AND WHAT ABOUT THEIR PLEDGES OF SAFETY AND SECURITY FOR EVERYBODY?

AMNESTY FOR EVERYBODY.

WOMEN CAN COME TO WORK.

ARE, PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR THEA- THERE WILL BE NO REVENGE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING NOT FROM INSIDE KABUL WHICH IS BLANKET COVERED WITH JOURNALISM AND THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT.

BUT IN THE, YOU KNOW, IN THE OUTLYING PROVINCES AND CAPITALS AND TOWNS, WE'VE HEARD REPORTS OF SOME PROTEST, SOME DEMONSTRATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MET WITH FORCE AND INJURY.

IT IS TOO EARLY TO TELL.

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO IS GOING TO PREVAIL.

STAND UP PLEASE?E REAL TALIBAN DIFFERENT WING, THE MILITARY COUNCIL, POLITICAL COUNCIL -- COUNCIL, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT IDENTITIES IS DIFFERENT WINGS SO WE'RE NOT EVEN SURE WHICH PART OF THE TALIBAN WILL PREVAIL ANDR WILL THE MORE CONSERVATIVE ONES?

IT IS TOO EARLY TO TELL.

WE HEAR STORIES OF HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE GETTING KILLED AND CERTAIN OTHER TIMES BETTER BEHAVED.

MUCH DEPENDS ON THE COMMANDER IN LOCAL FORCE. DEPENDS ON THE NEWS.D FINALLY TO YOUR BUSINESSO WE'VE SEEN YOUR FEMALE INTERVIEWING A TALIBANE AIR SPOKESMAN.

I WOULD SAY THAT IS PROBABLY A FIRST IN THE HISTORY OF YOUR COUNTRY.

WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU ON THP FACILITATING OPERATIONS?

WELL IT IS TOO EARLY AGAIN TO SAY HOW THEY ARE GOING TO TREAT THE MEDIA SECTOR.

BUSY TRYING TO CONSOLIDATE THEIR HOLD OVER THE CITY.

THEY HAVEN'T EVEN ELECTED A TRANSITIONAL GOVERNMENT.

I THINK OUR TIME WILL COME AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE A LOT MORE RESTRICTIVE.

THE QUESTION IS HOW RESTRICTIVE SEE.WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND

WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US WITH THAT REALITY CHECK FROM THE GROUND.

> WHEN IT CO-MS TO WAIT AND HAVE SEEN.U HAVE HEARD, AS YOU THOUSANDS OF AFGHANS ARES OF DESPERATE TO GET OUT.

MORE THAN 300,000 HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH THE AMERICAN MISSION OVER ITS TWO DECADES IN.

THAT IS ACCORDING TO THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE.

AND ITS PRESIDENT AND CEO DAVID MILIBAND IS JOINING ME NOW FROM.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

STATES.RE HUGE NUMBERS, 300,000D PLENTY, PLENTY MORE WORKING WITH YOUR COUNTRY, NATO AND ALL THEO.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAS TO HAPPEN SECURITY AND SAFETY?EE THEIR

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON CHRISTIANE.

LOOK, THERE ARE THREE HUMANITARIAN CRISES GOING ON INSIDE AFGHANISTAN AT THE MOMENT.

THE FIRST IS THAT THERE ARE 18 MILLION PEOPLE DEPENDENT ON HUMANITARIAN AID FOR SURVIVAL, REALLY.

IT IS A VERY POOR COUNTRY.

80% FACING DROUGHT.

AND HIGH LEVELS OF COVID.

YOU HAVE A HUMANITARIAN ISSUE.

RECENTLY HALF A MILLION DESPERATED DISPLACED BY FIGHTIN.

AND THEIR PART OF THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS OR THE THIRU REFERRED TO.

WHICH IS THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD PROMISES MADE TO THEM BY THOSE PROMISES MET.ANT TO HAVE THEY ARE FILLING IN FORMS.

AND SOME HAVE PAPERWORK.FORMS BUT YOU HAVE SEEN THE SCENES OUTSIDE KABUL AIRPORT AS WELL AS I HAVE AND THE LACK OF PREPARATION IS COSTING PEOPLEDE.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE, THEY THINK, THAT THEIR LIVES ARE IN DANGER.

THEY ARE VERY AFRAID AND WANT TO HAVE PROMISES MET.

SO I THINK THAT ALL THREE OF THOSE HUMANITARIAN CRISES NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND THEY NEED T.

DO YOU THINK, KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT REFUGEES AND DESPERATION ALL OVER THE WORLD,E JUST OUTLINED ACROSS AFGHANISTAN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS GIVEN A FIXED DATE, AUGUST 31st, THAT'S IN ABOUT A WEEK WHERE THEIR PRESENCE WILL BE ENDED.

IS IT EVEN REMOTELY POSSIBLE IN YOUR VIEW AND GIVEN THE THESE TENS AND HUNDREDS OFALL DESPERATE IN A WEEK?WHO ARE

WELL LET'S UNDERSTAND FIRST OF ALL WHAT THE PLEDGE IS AND MET. WHETHER OR NOT IT CAN BE ENTER THE PROCESS.PEOPLE TO AND THE VISA PROCESSING SYSTEM THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS PRIORITY 2 VISAS ALONGSIDE THE SPECIALTY VISAS ISSUED TO PEOPLE WHO WORKED DIRECTLY FOR THE U.S.

YEARS FOR THAT TO BE FILLEDTHRO.

THAT IS WHY YOU ARE HEARING ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES AND --. LET'S BE CLEAR.

PEOPLE.UNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CANADA PLEDGED, UK PLEDGED 5,000 A YEAR.

WHICH IS REALLY NOWHERE NEAR THE SCALE OF THE ISSUE.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF PAPERWORK FACING THEM AND THAT NEEDS TO B.

PEOPLE WAITING TWO YEARS.EEP SECONDARILY, WHAT CAN BE DONE?

OBVIOUSLY THE DEADLINE CONTRIBUTES TO THE SENSE OF PANIC AND 10, 12 DAYS AWAY, IT IS VERY HARD TO SEE HOW THAT IS.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE VERY LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE, KABUL AND ELSEWHERE WHO ARE FEARFUL AND IO THE CONVERSATION YOU JUST HAD, WHAT COUNTS ARE WHAT ARE THE GOVERNING AUTHORITY INHE NEW AFGHANISTAN.

BECAUSE ON A STAFF CALL I HAD THIS MORNING, THAT IS THE ISSUE AFGHANISTAN.,700 INTERNATIONALRS THEY WANT KNOW WHAT THEIR LIVE IN IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

AND OF COURSE YOU ARE RIGHT.. SO TO THAT POINT, I JUST WANT TR REPORTER CLARISSA WARD IN KABUL WHO SPOKE TO SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY HAS HIS PAPERS.

HE HAS HIS AUTHORIZATIONS ANDHI.

JUST LISTEN TO THIS.

CARD.porter: YOU HAVE A GREEN

YES.

THIS IS ANY GREEN CARD.

Reporter: SHE'S SHOWING ME A PICTURE RIGHT NOW OF HIS GREENC.

THAT'S HIS GREEN CARD.

SO DID YOU TRY TO GET INTO THEA?

YEAH I DID.

Reporter: WHAT DID THE TALIBAN SAY.

THEY SAY WE DON'T KNOW, JUST.

WE DON'T WANT TO TRY TO LET YOU.

LIKE THIS WE DON'T HAVE FLIGHTS AND WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.

FLIGHTS.ter: THEY DON'T HAVE

YEAH --

SO OF COURSE DAVID MILIBANDT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE HAS ONE OF THESE SPECIAL VISAS BUT IT DOES GO TO THE BUREAUCRACY AND MAYHEM INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF TH.

CERTAINLY DOES.

WHAT A HEROIN.CLARISSA WARD, SHE'S DOING AMAZING JOURNALISM.

YOU HAVE DONE IT BEFORE IN PREVIOUS WAR ZONES.

CHRISTIANE.RTHY HEIR TO YOU REALLY AMAZING REPORTING.

THIS IS WHERE DIPLOMACY MATTERS AND POLITICAL MUSCLE MATTERS.

CLEARLY THE TALIBAN HAVE CHECKPOINTS.

BUT CLEARLY, THEY ARE TRYING TO RESTORE ORDER IN THE CAPITAL.

THIS IS WHERE THE U.S., RUSSIA, SYSTEM ACTUALLY HAS A COMMONTER.

AND IT IS TIME TO MAKE DIPLOMATIC AND POLITICAL MUSCLE.

I AM VERY CONCERNED THAT MILITARY WITHDRAWAL IS GOING TO BE FOLLOWED BY HUMANITARIAN, DIPLOMATIC AND POLITICALLY WITHDRAWAL AS WELL.

THE UK IS PLANNING TO CUT ITS AID BUDGET FROM 80 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO 20 FOR AFGHANISTAN.

AND THAT IS NOT A WAY TO PROMOT.

AND IT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT THAT THERE ISN'T A FURTHER RUSH TO THE HUMANITARIAN AND POLITICAL AND DIPLOMATIC EXITS BECAUSE THAT WILL ONLY COMPOUND THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU ARE SEEING.

DAVID MILIBAND, YOU HAVE JUST SAID YOU ARE VERY DEEPLY REGRETFUL THAT YOUR OWN COUNTRY, YOUR FOREIGN SECRETARY HAS ONLY PLEDGED 5,000 OVER SEVERAL YEARS, 5,000 A YEAR FOR A PERIOD.

OCEAN. IS ONLY A DROP IN THE YOUR COUNTRIES ARE IN AY ALL COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD IN TERMS OF REFUGEES AND IMMIGRATION AND MIGRATION.

IT IS JUST REALLY HARD LINE NOWO BRITAIN TO ELSEWHERE.

MUCH DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS LET'. A HUGE AMOUNT HAS BEEN MADE OF THE PARALLELS OR NOT BETWEEN TH.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO REFUGEE, I JUST WANT TO REELED YOU SOME OF CAN WEIGH IN ON THIS.E IF YOU HUGE EVACUATIONS.RE HAVE BEEN THE LAST HUGE ONE WAS BY INDIA MORE THAN 110,000 OF ITS NATIONALS FROM KUWAIT AFTER SADDAM HUSSEIN INVADED IRAQ BAC.

BEFORE THAT IN SAIGON IN APRIL 1975 AND AT ONE POINT ISRAEL EXTRACTED 14,000 JEWS FROM ETHIOPIA IN 46 HOURS IN 1991.

IT IS A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING AND OF COURSE IN THE END THE UNITED MORE, HOWEVER IT REQUIRED THE PRESIDENT GERALD FORD TO CREATE AN INTERAGENCY TASK FORCE FOR THE TRANSPLANT FOR THE PROCESSING TO A THIRD COUNTRY IN THIS CASE GUAM AGREED TO HOST.

IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT THAT PROCESS IS UNDER WAY RIGHT NOW OR AT LEAST NOT IN ANY WAY THAT.

AND PARTICULARLY THIS THIRD COUNTRY OPTION, RATHER THAN WAITING A THE AIRPORT ORUND OUTSIDE.

WELL YOU ARE MAKING A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT GRIP.

ABOUT POLITICAL GRIP AND POLITICAL CLARITY.

TO BE FAIR TO JERALD FORD, HEDI.

TO BE FAIR TO JIMMY CARTER AND IN AMERICA AND RONALD REAGANCT ACTUALLY ADMITTED MORE REFUGEES THAN ANY OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF MERKEL IN GERMANY IN 2015, 16 WHICH SHE GOT POLITICAL FLAK FOR AT THE TIME BUT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN SHOW.

DEGREE OF POLITICAL GRIP. HIGH INTERNATIONAL COORDINATION.

OWN.S NOT JUST THE U.S. ON ITS BUT THOSE COUNTRIES THAT INTERVENED IN AFGHANISTAN DO HAVE A DEBT OF HONOR TO PEOPLE THAT THEY MAID PROMISES TO.

AND THE IDEA THAT BUREAUCRACY AND FORM FILLING IS GOING TO LEAVE PEOPLE LIKE THE GENTLEMEN THAT YOU HAVE JUST FEATURED WITH A GREEN CARD WHICH WHAT HE BELIEVED TO BE A SACRED PROMISE WHO CAN'T GET TO THE AIRPORT.

NEVER MIND THE FAMILY.

STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE TRYING TO GET FAMILIES.

THESE ARE U.S. CITIZENS THAT CAN'T GET OUT.

THT CLEARLY NEED THE KIND OF CENTRALIZED GRIP THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT IT ALSO NEEDS THE SYSTEM.ATION ACROSS THE GLOBAL AND THAT IS GOING TO TAKE REALE.

BUT UNLESS THE U.S. LEADS IT IS GOING TO HAVE MORE OF THE KIND OF SCENES THAT WE'RE SEEING ATT.

LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MORAL IMPERATIVE.

AND WE HAVE NOT HEARD VERY MUCH MORAL IMPERATIVE TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HELPED THEM SO MUCH ANO HELP THE INTERNATIONAL FORCES.

AND OF COURSE THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

SO WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU NOW AS A FORMER FOREIGN SECRETARY NOW, IS IT IN THE WORLD'S INTEREST TO ENGAGE WITH THE TALIBAN AND PUT DOWN THE DEMANDS AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PROMISES THEY ARE MAKING VERBALLY IN ORDER TO TRY TO EFFECT THEIR BEHAVIOR?

OR IS IT KEEP THEM AT BAY, DON'T RECOGNIZE THEM, TREAT THEM AS THE PARIAHS THEY WERE BACK IN THE NINETIES AND THEN THEY DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND AFGHANS AT THEIR MERCY.

IN OTHER WORDS DO YOU SEE ANY VIRTUE TAKING A GAMBLE TRYING T?

THING I'LL NOT WISTFUL FOR THE 1970s, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS REALISTIC AND HARD HEADED TO SAY THAT IF YOU LEAVE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS UNTENDED, IT WILL LEAD TO POLITICAL INSTABILITY NOT JUST IN THE COUNTRY WHICH IT IS HAPPENING BUT NEXT DOOR AND BEYOND.

AND ANYONE BELIEVING AFGHANS COMING.STAN HAS ANOTHER THING TALK TO THE PAKISTAN POLITICIANS OR BUSINESS PEOPLE.

YOU'LL KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

ON THE WIDER QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY THAT IS A -- A DIPLOMATIC APPROACH THIS FROM AI WANT TO HUMANITARIAN ANGLE.

THE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE HAS WORKED IN AFGHANISTAN SINCE 1988.

WE'VE WORKED IN AREAS CONTROLLED BY THE TALIBAN AND AREAS CONTROLLED PREVIOUSLY BY THE GOVERNMENT.

WE ARE BELIEVERS THAT YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE ON THE PART -- ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE SERVING.

AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE ENGAGEMENT WITH THE REALITIES THAT EXIST IN AFGHANISTAN TODAY.

ONE OF THOSE REALITIES IS A NEW.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT ONE ON INCLUDING TO YOU AND WHICH TRAGICALLY HAS NEVER BEEN PROPERLY FOLLOWED UP IS THAT A POLITICAL SETTLEMENT INSIDE AFGHANISTAN WOULD NEVER WORK UNLESS THERE WAS A REGIONAL POLITICAL SETTLEMENT TO COMPLEMENT IT.

INVOLVING PAKISTAN AND CHINA.

AND INDIA.

THERE REMAINS A MASSIVE NEED FO.

THE AFGHAN STUDY GROUP ON WHICH I SAT AND WHICH REPORTED IN FEBRUARY AND PREDICTED SOME OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS, THAT STUDY GROUP EMPHASIZED THAT NO NATION HAD AN AFGHANISTAN.

AND IT WAS VITAL TO FIND THE HIGHEST COMMON FACTOR BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES TO PROMOTE STABILITY IN THAT COUNTRY.

THAT REMAINS ESSENTIAL TODAY FOS ENGAGEMENT WITH THE NEW ABOUT GOVERNMENT.

YOU KNOW I HEAR YOU AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

I WORRY THOUGH.

BECAUSE THAT WOULD TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF CLARITY, A HUGE AMOUNF PUTTING THAT SORT OF GOOD BEYOND I GUESS NATIONAL OR NARROW SELF INTEREST.

SINCE THE COLLAPSE OF THE ARMYON AFGHANISTAN IS THAT THE WEST WHICH HAD INVESTED IN THAT COUNTRY FOR TWO DECADES CLEARLY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON ON THE GROUND OR HAD HAD THE WOOL PULLED OVER THEIR EYES SOMEWHER.

DOES THAT WORRY YOU PARTICULARLY NOW WITH THIS EVEN MORE HERCULEAN TASK AHEAD IN THE WAY WHICH YOU HAVE OUTLINED TO TRY TO HAVE A MAJOR GLOBAL EFFORT TO THAN IT IS NOW?ING EVEN WORSE

WELL I WAS CALLING FOR A REGIONAL EFFORT, WHICH WOULD BE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE ANTONIO GUTIERREZICIOUS -- SAIDE INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE IS GOING TO BE STAYING OUR 1700 BUILDING.T THEIR OWN NATION IT IS NOT US BUILDING THE NATION, IT IS AFGHANS BUILDING THE NATIONING BUT THEY NEED OUR.

AND I THINK THERE IS CLEARLY AN ACUTE CRISIS IN KABUL IN OTHERP.

AND THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSEDAE RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THE OUTSID.

BUT THERE IS ALSO GOING TO BE LESSON LEARNING AND ONE OF THE LESSONS THEY WANT TO PUT ON THE TABLE IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BEH THAT IS THE WAY THAT I WOULD ANSWER THE ENGAGEMENT QUESTION AND YOU DESCRIBE IT AS HERCULEAN.

I WISH CHRISTIANE YOU COULD HEAS MORNING WITH AFGHAN STAFF SPEAKING TO INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE STAFF AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT THE PASSION THEY HAVE FOR CONTINUING THEIR WORK IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY AND OWN COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE TIED THERE BY PARENTS, BY FAMILY, BY RELATIVES THAT ARE NOT GOING THE GET OUT.

AND THEY NEED CONTINUED ENGAGEMENT FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD.

WE CAN'T ALLOW A MILITARY WITHDRAWAL TO BECOME AN EXCUSE FOR THE HUMANITARIAN AND POLITICALLY WITHDRAWAL WHICH WOULD DO FURTHER DAMAGE, COMPOUND THE DAMAGE.

AND THAT IS THE FEAR I HAVE.

AND OF COURSE AS THEY WITHDREW, PRESIDENT BIDEN, ALL COUNTRIES HAVE SAID THEY WILLKED POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT THERE AND.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT PANS OUT.

IMPORTANT NIGHT.HANK YOU SO MUCS

> NOW THE HISTORIC BRUTALITY OF THE TAB SEASON A REMINDER OF.

AND IT IS HISTORIC BRUTALITY OF SLAVERY IN AMERICA THAT WE LOOK.

THE OSCAR WINNING DIRECTOR BARRY JENKINS 'UNDERGROUND RAILROAD' HAS BEEN STREAMING SINCE MAY AND JUST RECEIVED SEVEN EMMY DIRECTOR.NS INCLUDING BEST THE SERIES IS BASED ON THE ACCLAIMED 2016 NOVEL OF THE SAM.

AND IT TELLS THE STORY OF A YOUNG GIRL WHO ESCAPES A GEORGE -- GEORGIA PLANTATION THROUGH A NETWORK OF SECRET ROUTES.

HERE IS A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.

THERE'S ANGER IN YOU.

WORST KIND OF FUEL.

THE WORST KIND.

SAVAGERY MAN IS CAPABLE WHEN JUST.LIEVES HIS CAUSE TO BE NOW FROM LOS ANGELES.JOINS ME WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM BARRY JENKINS.

I GUESS I HAVE TO START BY OVER AND YOU CAN'T ESCAPE IT.

YOU KNOW, THE TERRIBLE STORIES AND THE RISKS OF YOUNG GIRLS, YOUNG BOYS IN AFGHANISTAN BEING, YOU KNOW, DRAGGED BACK INTO A SORT OF SERVITUDE, SLAVERY ANDT.

ABOUT THAT AT.U ARE THINKING AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR SERIES.

I'VE DEFINITELY BEEN THINKIN.

IT IS KIND OF ALL ONE CAN THINK ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, THE WORLD SEEMS TO JUST CONTINUE TO FALL BACK ON THE CYCLES OF ABUSE ANDD OCEAN IS QUITE TERRIBLE.THE NOMINATIONS.ATIONS ON THE EMMY SEVEN.

YOUR FIRST DESPITE YOUR OSCAR.

SERIES.RECTOR FOR LIMITED IT TOOK YOU A LONG TIME DO THIS.

ABOUT FIVE YEARS SINCE YOU DECIDED YOU WANTED TO DO THIS.

YOU'VE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, FILM YOUR LANGUAGE.NGUAGE AND IT IS AND BOY, DOES IT SPEAK LOUDLY ACROSS THESE TEN EPISODES.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

YOU HAVE SAID YOU BELIEVE CREATE EMPATHY.R LANGUAGE CAN WAS THAT YOUR FIRST OBJECTIVE?E?

EMPATHY AND IDENTIFICATION.E.

I FEEL LIKE MY ANCESTORS STORIES HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, EXTREMELY WELL COVERED IN ACADEMIC JOURNALS, AND JOURNALISM IN DIFFERENT KINDS OF PERIODICALS WE'RE READING THESE DAYS.HAN AND SOME OF THESE STORY, SOME OF THE STRUGGLES, SOME OF THESE LESSONS THAT THE WORLD CAN LEARN FROM THE ORDEAL OF MY ANCESTORS HAS BEEN PUSHED TO PERIPHERY OR.

SO I DID FEEL LIKE GIVING THEM A TREATMENT, CREATING THESE VISUALS, DEPICTING THEM IN IMAGES WAS ONE OF THE BEST WAYS.

THE FIRST EPISODE IS A REALLY BRUTAL WATCH.

AND IT CHANGES THROUGHOUT.

AND IT IS THE STORY OBVIOUSLY OF CORA HAS SHE PROGRESSES THROUGH.

BRUTAL. FIRST IS VERY, VERY AND I KEPT THINKING OF YOUR MISSION STATEMENT ABOUT EMPATHY, ABOUT VISUALS, ABOUT SETTING THE AND I WONDER HOW HARD IT WAS FOR YOU.

BUT ALSO FOR YOUR ACTORS AND PARTICULARLY SOME OF THE YOUNGER ACTORS.

AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF CHILDREN INVOLVED.

HOW DID THEY COPE WITH BEING CONFRONTED?

WE'VE GOT A SCENE, THE LYNCHING SCENE, THE WHIPPING SCENE, THEB.

THE WAY THE WHITE OWNERS DISRUPT THE BIRTHDAY OF AN OLD MAN ON THEIR PLANTATION, A SLAVE HIMSELF, JUST OUT OF PURE MEAN-SPIRITED POWER AND THEN END BOY.HIPPING CORA AND A SMALL THEY ARE VERY HARD NOT JUST TO WATCH BUT PRESUMABLY TO BE PART OF.

YOU HAD THERAPISTS ON SET.

HOW DIDDED YOU USE THEM?

ONE IT WAS A COLLECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF TELLING THE STORY AND CREATING THESE IMAGES.

AND I THINK WE ALL KNEW THAT WE, YOU KNOW, BOTH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING THE TRAUMA VISITED UPON THEM, THE ACTORS WHO MUST WITHSTAND AND THE ACTORS THE TRAUMAS.Y WHO MUST COMMIT WE ARE ALL THERE FOR THE SAME PURPOSE AND WE HAD THERAPISTS ON SET AND ANY TIME WE WERE DEALING WITH THESE IMAGES WE UNDERSTOOD THERE WERE THERE TO UNPACK THE IMAGES BUT NOT ALLOW THE IMAGES TO UNPACK US.

I THINK HAVING THE SAME ENERGY WOULD HOPEFULLY EXTEND TO THE AUDIENCE AND THE ENERGY THAT WEY CLEAR.

AND SO IT WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD THAT OUR EMOTIONAL WELL-BEING, OUR INTELLECTUAL WELL-BEING, OUR IMPORTANT AS CREATING THE ART.

STOP, THEY COULD. WANTED TO RALLY AROUND THAT PERSON. ALL WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN TOO OFTEN BUT KNOWING IT WAS THERE I THINK MADE EVERYONE FEEL SAFE.

THE BOOK BEGINS IN THIS GEORGIA EPISODE WHERE THESE ASPECTS OF BRUTALITY ARE VERY CLEAR.

IT IS VERY FACT-BASED DEPICTIONF COURSE WE DID TONS OF RESEARCHAN THE EPISODE THAT YOU CAN'T FIND.

AND YET, AS I WAS MAKING THE SHOW, I WAS TRYING TO DECIDE WOULD I TELL. SHOW AND WHAT AND THIS BUZZ WORD AND THE LASTZ AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.ENT, MAKE IT WAS EVERYWHERE.

YOU COULDN'T ESCAPE IT AND THIS IDEA OF 'AGAIN,' IT ALMOST IMPLIED THAT IN THE PAST AMERICA WAS BETTER, AMERICA WAS UNDOUBTEDLY GREAT WITHOUT FILTERING.

EMBRACE A MESSAGE LIKE THAT, YOU MUST CLEARLY JUST HAVE A BLIND SPOT OR WILLFULLY BE IGNORING SO MANY IMPORTANT THINGS IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND I FELT ITWE THINGS IN THE OUTSET OF THE EPISODE.

INDEED.

REST.OU ALSO TALK ABOUT THE MAGE SO YOU WERE FILMING IN GEORGIA.

TAKES PLACE AT LEAST, YOU KNOW,. UMM, AND YOU TALK ABOUT COMMENTS THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED THAT PEOPLE JUST WISH THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL THAT STORY ABOUT WHAT AMERICA WAS BACK THEN.

YEAH.

IT WAS KIND OF A HEAD TRIP.

YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T INTEND TO FILM THE ENTIRE SHOW IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA BUT BECAUSE OF LOGISTICS AND THINGS LIKE THAT ENDED UP FILMING THE ENTIRE SHOW IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA AND IT WAS OUR CREW BECAUSE OF THE STATE OF GEORGIA I'M PRETTY SURE WAS FILLED WITH PEOPLE ACROSS THE SPECTRUM THAT NOT EVERYONE POLITICALLY THOUGHT THE SAME AND AROUND CREATING THIS WORK OFD ART.

BUT THEN YOU WOULD BE OUT IN THE WORLD AND YOU WOULD VERY CLEARLY SEE, AS YOU ARE -- YOUR INTRO TEED UP THAT MAYBE NOT EVERYONE AROUND ME IS READY FOR THESE IMAGES OR WANTS TO ACKNOWLEDGET.

AND YOU HAVE I THINK THE ROLE OF ART, YOU KNOW, IS TO SPEAK TRUTH.

SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT I' BUT IT IS MAGICAL REALISM IN THN UNDERGROUND RAILROAD BUT THAT I.

CORA GOES THROUGH THE PROCESSNO.

AND SHE HEARS A LITTLE CLIP, A LITTLE EXCERPT FROM HERE ASKING?

EVERYBODY KEEP TELLING ME HO.

WHAT GOOD IS A RAILROAD IF ONLY?

WHAT GOOD IS A FARM FULL OF FREEDOM IF ONLY SPECIAL FOLK CA?

QUESTION.T'S A VERY POINTED TELL US WHAT YOU WERE SAYING IN THAT INSTANCE.

AND OF COURSE USING A RAILROAD, WHICH IT WASN'T REALLY IN REALL.

YEAH I THINK THE FIRST PART OF THE QUESTION, I THINK THAT WE IF ONLY THE PRIVILEGED PEOPLE IN IN I CLASS OR STRATA OR GROUP OF PEOPLE ARE RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF EMPATHY, THE BENEFITS OF ABOLITION, THE WE TRULY SAVING ANY PEOPLE?ARE AND I THINK THE SAME THING COULD BE SAID, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BOTH CURRENT EVENT OF THE DAY.HE AND IN AFGHANISTAN RIGHT NOW WE'RE, WELL WE HAD TO AIR LIFT THE PEOPLE WHO HELPED US IN THESE MILITARY OPERATIONS AND YET WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE, WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH 20 YEARS OF THESE PROMISES, YOU KNOW, OF WHAT LIFE COULD BE AND WHAT LIFE SHOULD BE AND NOW HAVE BEEN LEFT BEHIND TO NOW UNDERGO ANOTHER JUST COMPLETELY METAMORPHOSIS OF WHAT THEIR EVERY DAY LIFE IS.

IN THE STORY YOU ASSUME ALL THESE BLACK PEOPLE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE I IN INDIVIDUAL'S FREEDOM.

-- CORA IS WONDERING WHAT GOOD IS IT IF ONLY I CAN RECEIVE THE RAILROAD.OF THIS UNDERGROUND REMINDS ME OF '12 YEARS A SLAVE' AND I ALWAYS THOUGHT THERE IS A VERY SAD MOMENT, YES I'M ABOUT HERS?R HIS FREEDOM BUT I LOVE YOU HAVE -- TRUTHFUL INTERPRETATION.

THIS IDEA OF FACT AND FICTION A VERY HARD ONE TO RECONCILE.

-- SO MANY OF THESE FACTS THATW.

I WENT TO GRADE SCHOOL IN THE U.S. AND IN ANY TEXT IT DESCRIBED SLAVERY AS THIS CONDITION OF CONSCRIPTED LABOR.

I WOULD HAVE LEARNED MORE ABOUT ACTUAL CONDITIONS OF MY OR THE ANCESTORS BY READING THE FICTION OF TONY MORRIS THAN I DID FROM READING THE FACT-BASED TEXTBOOKS GOVERNMENT.IVEN TO ME BY THE EVEN THROE THIS IS MAGICAL REALISM IN THE BOOK AND IN THE SHOW I THINK IT DOES ARRIVE IN A ME IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

AND FINALLY I WANT TO FOCUS ON YOUR I THINK TRIBUTE TO PARENTING AND YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT PATIENTING A LOT.

THERE IS A SOUND BITE.

CORA SAIDS 'BIRTH WAS THE LAST THING MY MAMA GAVE ME' AND THEN.

ESCAPED.

AND YOU DESCRIBED PARENTING A DURING SLAVERY AS THE GREATEST ACT OF COLLECTIVE PARAPHERNALIAS EVER SEEN.NG THAT WORLD HAS WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO TELL US WITH THAT?

I THINK FOR US TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW FOR ME TS CONVERSATION WITH YOU, DESPITE THE HORRORS THAT WE WITNESSED I, WHICH ARE JUST A FRACTION OF THS ENDURED, AND YET THAT GENERATION OF PEOPLE BECAUSE AGAIN THE ASSAULT. CONSTANTLY UNDER FAMILIES CONSTANTLY BEING TORN ASUNDER, THAT SOMEHOW THESE PEOPLE FELT -- RETAB THE WILL T.

I THINK THE ONLY WAY THIS CANHA.

A CHILD WOULD BE BORN SEPARATED FROM ITS BIRTH MOTHER AND FATHER AND THEN FLOWN FAR TO A DIFFERENT PLANTATION.

SOMEHOW GROUPS WOULD COME TOGETHER AND SOMEHOW THE PEOPLE.

ARTIST POLITICIANS ANY BLACKK CITIZENS EXISTENCE ON THE WORLD RIGHT NOW IS THROUGH THIS ACT O.

AND WHEN WE WATCH THESE NARRATIVES WE OFTEN DON'T SEE CHILDREN -- WITH CHILDREN EVERYWHERE -- REALLY SHOW THIS SACRIFICE THAT WE'RE TALK ABOUT, IT WASN'T A SACRIFICE OF DEATH.

IT WAS A SACRIFICE OF LIVING AN.

IT IS REALLY AN AMAZING STORY.

CONGRATULATIONS BARRY JENKINS AND OF COURSE ON THE SEVEN EMMY WATCHING FOR THAT. WILL BE WITH US.U VERY MUCH FOR BEING

> AND NOW WE TURN TO THE PANDEMIC WITH A LOOK BACK AT HOW IT ALL BEGAN SO HOW DID THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT MANAGE TO TRIUMPH FOR THE COMMUNIST PARTY?

THAT IS THE QUESTION ACCLAIMED CHINESE FILM MAKER NAN FOO WANG TRIES TO ANSWER.

IN HER NEW DOCUMENTARY, IN THE SAME BREATH.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOUR FILM TAKES A LOOK AT HOW ARGUABLY THE TWO MOST POWERFUL NATIONS ON THE PLANET DEALT WIT.

WHY INTERTWINE THESE TWO?

BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE PROBLEMS IN BOTH SOCIETIES.

AND I AM CHINESE CITIZEN.

AND I'M U.S. PERMANENT RESIDENT.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE BUT I EXPERIENCED THE OUTBREAK TWICE.

ONCE IN JANUARY WHEN I WAS IN CHINA AND THEN AGAIN IN MARCH WHEN I WAS IN THE U.S.

IT WAS SHOCKING AND DEPRESSING STRANGE PAYROLL IN THE TWOD POLITICALLY AND IDEALOGICALLY MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES.ETIES

YOU WERE ABLE TO MARSHAL A BUNCH OF TALENTED VIDEOGRAPHERS ACCESS INTO HOSPITALS THOSE FIRST DAYS AND THESEOF REALLY TRAGIC STORIES.

THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY WATCHING DIE.LE SUFFER AND SOME CASES AND THERE IS A STORY IN THERE, A CHARACTER THAT EMERGES, A FATHER WHO IS ON THE 12th FLOOR AND HIS ON A LOWER FLOOR.RSE CONDITION TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

IT WAS CAPTURED BY ACCIDENT.

WHEN WE START FILMING IN THE HOSPITAL I QUICKLY REALIZED BOTH THE CAMERA PEOPLE SOMETIMES AND DEFINITELY ALL THE PATIENTS AND EMPLOYEES OF THE HOSPITAL WOULD.

SOMETHING REMOTELY SENSITIVE.

DON'T STOP FILMING.A PEOPLE KEEP THE CAMERA ROLLING.

THAT IS MY ASSIGNMENT.

EVEN WHEN YOU TAKE A BREAK, KEE.

AND THEN THIS GUY CAME.

AND YOU SEE THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION UNFOLD.

IT WAS 20 MINUTES, HIS VISIT TO.

IT WAS THE LAST TIME HE SAW HIS.

TAKING CARE OF HIS SON. HE WAS AND HIS SON WAS DYING.

BUT HE WAS BEING ABLE TO DISCHARGE FROM THE HOSPITAL.

BUT THAT WAS THE LAST MOMENT HE WAS SEE HIM.

IT WAS HEARTBREAKING BECAUSE IT WAS A TIME WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SAID THERE IS NO HUMAN TO HUMAN.

AND HIS STORY WAS THE EVIDENCE TO ME THAT HE GOT INFECTED FROM HIS SON.

AND IT WAS VERY EARLY.

ACCORDING TO THE TIMELINE OF THAT FAMILY, THE SON GOT SICK IN NOVEMBER, WHICH FOR MOST OF THE U.S., WE DON'T THINK OF THE EARLY.OF THE CORONAVIRUS THAT WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO GET PEOPLE TO HOSPITAL, WE HAVE A CLIP OF THAT.

LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK.

[SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] [SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE] CAMERA PERSON?THINK THEY ARE SOR

ON JANUARY 1st THERE WERE EIGHT DOCTORS BEING PUNISHED FO.

AND THAT BECAME NATIONAL NEWS.

SO A LOT OF HEALTHCARE WORKERS, THEY WERE WARNED BY BOTH THEIR HOSPITAL AND, YOU KNOW, IN CHINA ALL THE HOSPITALS, THE STATE-OWNED HOSPITALS EXCEPT FOR PRIVATE CLINIC HAS A PARTY BRANCH IN THE HOSPITAL AND THAT MANAGES THE ENTIRE HOSPITAL.

SO THEY ALL HAVE DOCUMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, ALREADY TOLD EVERY HEALTHCARE WORKERS, DOCTORS, NURSES THEY COULDN'T SPEAK.

SO I WASN'T SURPRISED THAT THEY OUT.D BE AFRAID FOR SPEAKING DOCTORS?AT HAPPENED TO THOSE IN THE UNITED STATES WE CALL THEM WHISTLE BLOWERS BECAUSE ALARM.ERE TRYING TO RING THE

ONE OF THE MOST UNKNOWN AMONG THE EIGHT DOCTORS IS DR. LEE WAMYAN PUNISHED ON -- AND HE ADMITTED I MADE A MISTAKE, ITWA.

IT WAS NOT REAL AND HE PASSED AWAY SHORTLY IN FEBRUARY.

EARLY FEBRUARY, FROM CORONAVIRUS.

FROM COVID.

YOU HAVE FOOTAGE IN YOUR DOCUMENTARY OF A PRIVATE CLINIC AND IT SHOWS PATIENTS COMING IN ONE AFTER THE OTHER OVER SEVERAL DAYS WITH THE SYMPTOMS WE KNOW NOW ARE RELATED TO THE CORONAVIRUS.

WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?GE WHAT BECAUSE DURING THIS TIME, THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS NOT BEING PASSED FROM PEOPLE TO.

I WAS ASTONISHED.

I ALREADY KNEW HOW IT HAPPENED BECAUSE A CLINIC OWNER TOLD ME AND SHE TOLD ME THAT AMONG THEP, SEVERAL OF THEM DIED OF COVID.

AND INCLUDING HER HUSBAND TOO PATIENTS THAT HE SAW. THE AND IT WAS IN LATE DECEMBER.

BUT IT WAS STORY THAT SHE TOLDM.

SO I WASN'T SEEING IT.

SO WHEN I FINALLY GOT AHOLD OF THE SURVEILLANCE FOOTAGE IN HER CLINIC AND REVIEWED QUICKLY, SCROLLED THROUGH DAY BY DAY IN DECEMBER AND AMOUNT OF PEOPLE COMING IN SOME CASES WERE WITH, YOU KNOW, YOUNG GIRL SAYING IHA.

ITS BEEN FEW DAYS AND I'M REALL.

AND THE CLINIC OWNER SAID DON'T YOUNG YOU WON'T DIE.YOU ARE SO AND DISMISSED HER.

SHE LEFT.

AND I KEPT WONDERING WHERE -- WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE?

WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?

PEOPLE. SEEING DOZENS OF THOSE WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTRIGUING TO ME IS THE WAY THAT YOU FOUND SOME OF THE SUBJECTS FOR THIS FILM IS YOU WENT THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA WHERE PEOPLE ARE POSTING THEIR NAMES, THEIR FACES, THEIR PHONE NUMBERS, AND EVEN THEIR X-RAYS.

WHY WERE THEY DOING THAT?

SO THAT WAS WHAT COMPELLED M.

IS THERE WAS FOREIGN SOCIAL MEDIA FORUM, THE -- WOULD BE CR.

COVID PATIENTS CRYING FOR HELP.

AND ONE NIGHT WHEN THE FORUM FIRST STARTED I NOTICED BECAUSE WE WERE JUST MONITORING EVERYTHING ON THE INTERNET.

DELETED RIGHT AWAY.G TO BE SO I NOTICED BEFORE AND I SAW JUST A VERY QUICKLY THERE WERE HUNDREDS AND THEN SOON THOUSAND.

AND THEY WERE POSTING 'ID' WHICH MEDICAL RECORDS.ITIVE THING IN ALL THEY WANTED IS TO SHOW, HEY.

AND I'M STICK.

-- I'M SICK.

THIS IS THE PROOF.

MEDICAL RECORDS., MY SKIN., BUT I COULDN'T GET TREATMENT.

PLEASE HELP ME AND LOT WERE HOPING BECAUSE THEY HAVE STANDED IN LINE AT HOSPITAL.

CALLED EVERY DAY HOTLINE THEY COULD AND THEY WERE HOPING BY PUTTING ALL THIS INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET IT WOULD ATTRACT ATTENTION, IT WOULD PUT PRESSURE ON THE GOVERNMENT, ON THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE GOVERNMENT TO.

AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

SO I WAS AFRAID THIS IS GOING T.

THAT NIGHT I STAYED UP ALL NIGHT, ARCHIVED 1500 PEOPLE AND WE END UP CALLING 500 IN THE NEXT DAYS AND WEEKS.

AND BY THE TIME LOT OF PEOPLE INFORMATION WAS REALLY DETAILED.

PHONE NUMBER, WHO IS SICK, HOW SYMPTOMS STARTED.WHEN THE WHAT KIND OF EFFORT THEY HAVE MADE TO GET HELP AND TREATMENT.

BY THE TIME WE CALLED IT IS LIKE FIRST THING WE ALWAYS SAY IS WE?

AND OFTEN TIMES THE RESPONSE IS THAT HE ALREADY PASSED AWAY.

YOU HAVE A MONTAGE OF STATE TELEVISION NEWS ANCHORS SAYING LITERALLY VERBATIM EXACTLY THE SAME SCRIPT OVER AND OVER AGAIN SOMETHING REALLY TO FEAR.OT AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU HAVE GOT THE STATE CLEANING UP SOCIAL MEDIA INSTANCES OF VIDEO.

SO IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT DID NOT KNOW THE EXTENT TO WHICH CORONAVIRUS WUHAN?MPANT IN THE STREETS OF

I DON'T THINK THERE IS A GOVERNMENT DIDN'T KNOW.INESE BECAUSE ALL THIS MEDIA IN CHINA.

AND THE SOCIAL MEDIA IS MANAGED BY THE GOVERNMENT CENSURES, AND THAT IN THE FILM YOU WILL SEE HOW EARLY THE GOVERNMENT KNEW.

AND THE FACT THAT MULTIPLE DOZENS OF REPORTERS READ THE SAME REPORT, THE SAME NEWS WORD BY WORD, ABOUT EIGHT PEOPLE BEING PUNISHED FOR SPREADING RUMOR, IT IS A JOKE NOW PEOPLE SAY.G ACTIVISTS IN CHINA WILL IF THE GOVERNMENT STANDS OUT AND TELL YOU THAT IS A RUMOR, MOSTLE OF WHY, WHAT THEY TRY TO TELLYO.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE TIMELINE THE NEWS CAME FROM THE CENTRALG.

IT IS ALL ACROSS THE LOCAL BROADCAST IN CHINA.

IT WAS NOT A LOCAL DECISION.

AND OF COURSE ALL THE LOCAL MEDIA IS IN CHINAS IS MANAGED B.

WHILE THIS IS ALL HAPPENING, THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS HAVING BASICALLY PARTY CONFERENCES AND NOT TALKING ABOUT THE VIRUS.

EVENTS.E ESSENTIALLY HAVING THER BUT THEY AREN'T TALKING ABOUTIT.

AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?

I THINK AS EASY TO THINK WHY THE U.S. ALSO FOR WHILE, FOR EVERYTHING IS GOING AWAY.NG, THEY ARE HAVING PRESS CONFERENCES, MEETINGS JUST ASCH.

IT IS SAD, BUT WHAT I THINK IS BOTH GOVERNMENTS PRIORITIZED PRESERVE ITS IMAGE OF THE GOVERNMENT, OF THE LEADERS OVER THE PUBLIC INTEREST OF ORDINARY.

YOU HAVE A YOUNG MAN WHO IS GRIEVING FOR HIS DAD AND HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THIS EXPERIENCE HAS HELPED HIM UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

AND YOU JUXTAPOSE THAT IN THE FILM WITH THE PROTESTS THAT WERE HAPPENING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF CAPITALS, OUTSIDE O PLACES WHO DID NOT WANT TO WEAR MASKS.

IN AMERICA, I THOUGHT ABOUT HIM.

HE SAID TENS OF THOUSANDS DIED IN CHINA BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I WONDERED WHAT HE WOULD THINK IF HE COULD SEE WHAT WAS HAPPENING HERE.

I FEEL LIKE THE MESH AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO B MORE LIKE CHINA WHICH IS A COMMUNIST.

AND I FEEL LIKE BEING FREE IS COUNTRIES.ATES US FROM OTHER

NINE YEARS AGO WHEN I MOVED TO THE U.S., IT WAS THE IDEA OF.

I HAD NEVER SEEN A PROTEST UNTI.

THE CLOSEST THING TO A PROTEST I HAD EVER SEEN IN CHINA WAS SIX THE ROAD.ANDING ON THE SIDE OF PRISON. OF THEM ENDED UP IN NOBODY WOULD LOOK AT THESE FREE.E AND SAY THAT THEY ARE LIKE?S THIS WHAT FREEDOM LOOKS

I'M ALSO ASSUMING THAT TO CHINESE STATE MEDIA.ITS WAY AND I WONDER WHAT DOES YOUR MOM, WHAT DO YOUR RELATIVES THINK CLIPS?HEY SEE THESE KINDS OF

SO ALL THIS IMAGES OF PROTESTER OR CHAOS IN THE U.S.

OR, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT OF DEATH AND COVID CASES, IT WAS REPORTED ENDLESSLY IN CHINA.

AND ALL PEOPLE WHAT THEY SAW IS FRAMED BY THE STATE MEDIA, BY THE GOVERNMENT.

SO MY MOM WOULD WATCH THE NEWS AND READ THE NEWS ABOUT THE U.SE REPORTER IS FRAMING IT.

SO MY MOM WOULD CALL ME AND SAY OH WOW, LOOK THE U.S. HOW HORRIBLE IT IS.

COME BACK TO CHINA.

CHINA IS MUCH BETTER.

AND CHINA IS MORE --. EVERYBODY WOULD SAY IT TURNS OUT THAT U.S. IS NOT THAT -- AT ALL.

TURNS THE U.S. SYSTEM DIDN'T WORK AND IT TURNS OUT OUR SYSTE.

AND THAT IS WHAT'S HEARTBREAKING TO ME.

BECAUSE I SEE HOW THE SITUATION.

YOU HAVE FOOTAGE HERE THAT IF DOCTORS AND NURSES LINED UP DECLARING VICTORY OVER IT.Y

I'VE SEEN CEREMONIES LIKE THIS PLAY OUT OVER AND OVER AFTER MAJOR DISASTERS IN CHINA.

PEOPLE EMERGE FROM THE TRAUMA OF THESE EVENTS WITH EVEN STRONGER PATRIOTIC SENTIMENT THAN BEFORE.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, THE MISINFORMATION DOES WORK IN THE.

CHINA.OPAGANDA DOES WORK IN SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE YOU SPOKEO PERSONALLY LOST SOMEBODY IN THEIR FAMILY THEY LOVED, RIGHT, PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO WHAT V A LOT TO LOSE, AND YET THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE REALITY.G IN THIS ALTERNATE WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

I ASKED MYSELF THAT QUESTION THROUGHOUT THE MAKING OF THE FILM AND CONTINUE ASKING THAT AFTER.

BECAUSE IT IS PERPLEXING.

THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS?NST I THINK IT HAS TO COME TO IDEOLOGY.

AND IF A SOCIETY IS UNJUST, IF THE DISTRIBUTION OF INFORMATION AND WEALTH IS UNEVEN, THEN PEOPLE FORM FLAWED IDEOLOGY.

AND FLAWED IDEOLOGY IS RESULT OF YEARS AND DECADES OF PROPAGANDA.

SO THAT FLAWED IDEOLOGY PREVENTED THEM FROM THINKING OR SEEING THEIR ACTION AS ACTUALLY AGAINST THEIR OWN INTEREST.

THAT IS ONLY EXPLANATIONKY THIN.

YOU POINT OUT IN THE FILM THAT PEOPLE WHO DO SPEAK UP FAC.

SOME OF THEM DISAPPEAR, NEVER TO BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

SOME ARE ARRESTED.

SOME ARE HARASSED.

AND YOU HAVE MADE MULTIPLE FILMS NOW CRITICAL OF CHINA.

ARE YOU CONCERNED FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY?

OR THE SAFETY OF YOUR FAMILY WH?

MY FAMILY.

I'M VERY, VERY CONCERNED FOR MY FAMILY.

ARE STILL IN CHINA AND THEY ARE HARASSMENT AND THREATS.IVEDY AND EVEN FOR IN THE SAME -- MONTHS AGO THE POLICE INTERROGATED MY FAMILY, EVERYONE.

MY MOM, MY BROTHER AND MY UNCLE.

IT IS THREATEN THEM TO TRY TO THREATEN ME AND TELL ME DON'T DO SOMETHING OR THEY WOULD ARREST THEM.

REAL.TIME THE THREAT GETS MORE SO IT IS A HARD DECISION ON MY END.

I -- IT IS -- I -- I DON'T HAVE -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

AND I DON'T -- AND I DON'T KNOW.

AND THIS IS THE CONSEQUENCE ANDS TAKING WHEN MAKING THIS FILM.

OR ANY FILM ABOUT CHINA.

THE FILM IS CALLED 'IN THESA' THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU.

> AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

KU AND PATRICIA EWING, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.