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ERIC KLINENBERG, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY, NYU: So, here’s the important point for us to make on this issue. It’s not a universal experience that the pandemic is splintering. In fact, in many societies, even most societies on Earth, the pandemic has brought people together. There are several nations — take Australia, for instance, very polarized before the pandemic began, more trust in government now, more trust in each other, more belief in their collective capacity to deal with the emerging 21st century issues we face, like climate change. Here in the United States, it has been a very different story. We have gotten more divided and more distrustful. Frankly, I think, divisive leadership has been a very big part of that. We have picked up on divisions that were there clearly before the pandemic, and just gone nuclear with them. And so the I think the big question before us right now is, is there a project that we can do together that’s going to somehow bring us back some notion of collective good? It’s hard to see it right now.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA: So, if this is sort of an America-specific phenomenon that we’re seeing, I just want to read an anecdote to you that was in this ProPublica story. And this is just one of many that Sarah chronicled. And this is about a teacher in a state where masks were not required for students to wear. And so she thought she would persuade her students to wear masks by telling them about her 20-year-old daughter, Olivia, who has a neuromuscular condition and requires 24-hour care. She even put up a photo of her daughter in a wheelchair. And she said she didn’t know how Olivia could cope if she, in fact, came down with COVID. And she pleaded with her students, saying: “I cannot mandate you to wear a mask in my class. However, for the sake of my daughter, and potentially others, I will make a continual plea to wear one.” She brought a box of masks into the classroom, and just a few were taken from the students to wear. And that is just one example. There are business owners that are constantly being yelled at, a hairdresser. Why do you think this is happening, and not only among adults? I mean, these are students not even putting masks on.
KLINENBERG: Well, I think partly, in this country, it’s because our leaders have defined this danger in profoundly different ways. So it happens to be the case that this thing, this coronavirus pandemic, which should — could potentially bring us together, didn’t do that. We have Democrats and progressives who say this is about a disease, it’s about public health. The solution is solidarity. It’s recognizing that our fates are linked with one another, and we have to look out for our neighbors. We have Republicans who are saying, this threat is actually about freedom, and the real thing you have to protect here is your individual right to do what you want to do. They think that the health threat is blown out of proportion.