John Cho Talks “Cowboy Bebop” and Fighting Asian Hate

BIANNA GOLODRYGA: Well, one of the most influential anime series of all time has been given the life action Netflix treatment, and it’s out this Friday. “Cowboy Bebop” is an action-packed western set in space decades from now. It stars John Cho, best known for roles in “Harold and Kumar” and “Star Trek.” At a time when Hollywood is talking about diversity more than ever, Cho sat down with Hari Sreenivasan to discuss his journey as an actor and what it means to be part of such a well-loved project.

(BEGIN VIDEO VIDEOTAPE)

HARI SREENIVASAN: Thanks, Bianna. John Cho, thank you for joining us. So, for someone who is not familiar with the anime or with the Netflix version yet, what is “Cowboy Bebop”? Because it’s a genre bending.

JOHN CHO, ACTOR, “COWBOY BEBOP”: It is. That was certainly the attraction for me. But it is kind of a mixture of film noir (ph), westerns, comedy, action, all blended into this big soup. It’s set in the future in 2071. And humans have left earth because it’s become uninhabitable. Sound familiar? And we play bounty hunters who are — you know, we’re vigilantes taking in people, making a couple extra bucks trying taking criminals for the cops.

SREENIVASAN: OK. And I want to play a clip here. This is pretty — well, this will be pretty self-explanatory when we take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What, you’re taking a dump now? We ain’t got all day. Hello? Spike? Hello? Hello?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SREENIVASAN: We’ll get to the crazy physicality in a second. But one of the things that you notice right away, the Bebop in the name. I mean, that is not the music that you expect in the middle of kind of a martial arts fight scene. It’s really part of the show.

CHO: Yes, I will give all credit to our composer, Yoko Kanno, who was a composer for the original series. And we managed to lure her back for our show. And she’s very idiosyncratic. She makes choices that are really unconventional at every turn. And I would argue, she kind of — the choices are so interesting, they sort of change the meaning of the scene, scene by scene, because it’s almost a character.

SREENIVASAN: OK. So, there’s not a scene that we have that reveals this, but can we talk a little bit about — is there a Spike Spiegel abs workout that you’re just coming along with this? Because you get in unbelievable shape for a man — well, let’s just say, our age.

CHO: I’m working on an infomercial right now. $29.99, five easy payments.

SREENIVASAN: And you never have to do a sit up?

CHO: Yes. But yes, definitely the physical requirements were challenging, and we had had a great team. But, you know, my focus was definitely trying to do as much as I could and be visible so that they could use as much of me as they could. But it was the biggest challenge of this role.

SREENIVASAN: You know, do you feel any pressure because with something like this that has a history, that has a solid fan base, has a guy with incredible abs who is just a cartoon, right, and then you get cast in this role, you know, like — you know what I mean? You obviously — you’ve played Sulu, which is an iconic character before with a huge fan base. So, how do you approach something like this when you know there’s people who are going to be watching every move and say, oh, is this guy legit or not?

CHO: Sure. A lot of that is built into any big project. You know, you get excited and start to feel pressure. And what really relaxed me was every single person I met as I went down the line seemed to be devoted fans of the original anime and I thought, oh, we’d be good in stead moving forward. And as long as you start with good intentions, I think you can relax and be free in the knowledge that you’re approaching it the right way and hopefully — and then, you know, whether people like it or not, you can’t control. But what you can control are your intentions, you know.

SREENIVASAN: Well, when did you want to be an actor? When did this start for you?

CHO: I fell into it in college. It’s a story that, in retrospect, sounds unbelievable. Like I — am I misremembering this? But I was an English major at college and I was in a creative writing group. And one of the guys said I am directing a play and one of my actors got sick. And you look like you could fit the costume. And I said, OK. So, I gave it a shot.

SREENIVASAN: You were the right size for the script.

CHO: I was the right size for the script. By the way, the costume was sweater and jeans. So, in retrospect, I’m like, what? What was he talking about? But that’s how I started.

SREENIVASAN: So, when did you know? After that first play? Did you like, I could do this? Was it, did get cast in a film somewhere?

CHO: I didn’t know — I got cast in a professional play that they had to use students because they were using our campus theater. So, they were required to cast a couple students and I got one of the roles. And it was at that point because it was based on a very famous Asian-American novel called “The Woman Warrior” by Maxine Hong Kingston. And it was then that I actually met Asian-American actors in the flesh. And here (INAUDIBLE), I didn’t think that there were any professional Asian actors. I think in my mind, I didn’t really have a thought about it, but I must have thought that they were waiters and office workers who were, you know, sort of the cast and said, would you like to do this bit role on mash or something.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

CHO: But I didn’t think that there was a profession surrounding it or that it was possible. And this was a whole cast of Asian-American actors. And I thought — and they were brilliant and they were amazing and they were making a living doing plays and commercials and parts in film and television. I thought, oh, OK. This looks fun. And they were wonderful people. So, I thought I just want to keep going — keep hanging out with you guys.

SREENIVASAN: How do you think the business — the industry has changed today, I mean, from when you started in the business and when you perhaps didn’t see that many Asian-Americans or you saw them in kind of these supporting roles, these bit parts? Meaning, we have “Minari” and “Parasite” and “Crazy Rich Asians” that have kind of elevated the visibility in some ways. But, you know, as an actor, producer, director kind of behind the scenes and the peers that you talk to, what are you hearing?

CHO: I think it’s really — it is changing. And I really was very pessimistic because when I started, I looked back at the 50 years prior to my arrival and then made a mental graph, and I thought, well, it’s likely just going to keep going like this. It’s — I don’t see an even that would make it to this. But there was an event that made it through that. And I would suggest that there was a lot of technology behind. You know, we went through the internet revolution and Korea also made a very intentional effort to — as a government, to spread their pop culture throughout the world, and it’s worked. And we Asian-American are also the beneficiaries of that, that visibility. And so, there has been kind of an industrial revolution within the industry of cinema and also, the fragmentation of the audience and the number of outlets available has helped us. So, I think there are way more working Asian-Americans in the industry than there used to be and that is a good thing. And we are — and I notice an ethos change. You know, when I was younger, I felt like everyone had to be the one. You know, the one. And think that is thankfully disappearing. And we — I know that — I meet lots of Asian-Americans in the business who are actively seeking to collaborate with one another. And that’s kind of new.

SREENIVASAN: You’re also an author. You wrote a book. It’s going to be out, I hear, in spring. It’s aimed at kids called “Troublemaker.” What’s it about?

CHO: It’s about a kid who comes home on April 19, 1992 and discovers that his parents are home for some reason and that they are home because there – – it’s possible unrest in Los Angeles. And so, the father goes to the store, their store in South Central, to board it up. And the boy decides that his father needs protection and sneaks out of the house with a gun in his bag pack to deliver it to his father. And it’s a story of that night trying to get to his dad.

SREENIVASAN: Why was that moment important to you? What was just going on? I mean, you were a little older and the child that you’re writing about is the central character, but what did you start thinking about during that time when the whole country was watching what was happening on TV?

CHO: Well, what happened was I was set to write a different book altogether. And when the pandemic hit and George Floyd was murdered and we were watching the protests on television stuck inside our houses and then, the anti-Asian violence started happening and we were trying to discuss these things with our children. So, my mind just started thinking about all the kinds of things, including the ’92 riots and started to measure things like how much progress have we made, thinking about the Latasha Harlins’ murder and all of those things and realizing it’s been a long time and — since that event and thinking about, relatively speaking, how little progress has been made. And so, those are the things were on my mind. And I — the idea sort of came to me to maybe tell the story through a child’s lens. And I pitched the idea to my editor and said, I have a — I’m sorry, but I — maybe I have a completely different book in mind that I would like to it write. And I think maybe I need to the get it out of me. And so, that’s where it came from.

SREENIVASAN: So, if you don’t mind me asking, what kind of questions were your kids struggling with during the pandemic and what kinds of answers did you and your mom come up with?

CHO: I don’t know that they were asking so many questions as we were trying to sort of ride this balance between telling the truth, but not have them be scared. And that’s a very — that turned out to be a very difficult line to straddle, you know, because we did have to call our — their grandma and grandpa and say, maybe you shouldn’t take a walk for a couple of months, you know, maybe you should curb those walks and maybe you should carry mace and, you know, like — things like that. And that’s going to frighten the children. And yet, we had to know — they had to know what was going on. We had — on our street, we had somebody spray painted China below the word stop, on the stop sign at the end of our street. So, it was very close to us. You know, we didn’t have anyone that was beaten or anything, but it started to creep in. And I think the discussion was really what country are we living in? And I think there may be a battle going on right now to define what America is, to some extent. And that’s what the book was to me, me reflecting on what this country is and comparing it to what my parents thought they were bringing us to and what I grew up thinking this country was and hoping — and it still is, you know, because I hope that our institutions are what I thought they were. Because I’m very proud to be an American and I’m such — I’m so admiring of our institutions and our capacity for improvement. And I hope that long- term that is the case. And I just feel like we’re in a moment of crisis trying to figure it all out.

SREENIVASAN: You know, I remember at the beginning of the pandemic you wrote a column, jotted down a sentience from it, it said, the pandemic is reminding us that our belonging is conditional. One moment we are Americans, the next we’re all foreigners who brought the virus here. Do you think things are better now, I mean, compared to March, April of 2020?

CHO: I guess a casual survey would suggest yes. I mean, I don’t know if the root feelings have changed, that is to say the virus is in a better place as compared to a year ago. And so, maybe that anxiety is dissipating a little bit as people are kind of coming out of their homes. I don’t know. And I think the history of Asians in America would suggest that when there is a crisis, somebody has to be scapegoated. And it might be us again. You know, I certainly hope that’s not the case. And maybe we learn something from this event. But, you know, I have been out of the country for a year. We were in New Zealand shooting this and I shot another movie there. So, it — I’m trying right now also. I’ve only been back a couple weeks, trying to understand what’s changed and what the mood of the country is and what’s going on. So, I’ll come back tomorrow and let you know.

SREENIVASAN: OK. Good, good. Once you catch it all. You do so many different types of films. Some people are watching this, and they say, oh, it’s the guy from “Star Trek.” And there’s a good chunk of people who are going to remember you from the “Harold and Kumar” movies. And recently, your co-star from those films, Kal Penn, wrote a book in which he said he was engaged to a man. And I wonder if at the time that you were making those films, would it have had an impact had Kal Penn been openly gay then?

CHO: The pace of social change is dizzying. And during the pandemic, I was just remembering — I was rewatching “Friends,” you know, comfort food. And I was like, wow, there’s a lot of gay jokes in this sitcom. And it doesn’t seem that long ago. It’s a completely modern sitcom. And yet, it was just sort of wall-to-wall gay jokes. You know, I enjoyed it. It was — I didn’t notice it then.

SREENIVASAN: Right.

CHO: But in terms of Kal. Kal’s an exceptional performer. He’s so lovable. I would like to think that it wouldn’t have mattered. I really do. And I tend to think that the American audience is underestimated. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. But I would hope that it would have been the same result.

SREENIVASAN: What are you up to next? I mean, have you guys already gotten a green light for another season of “Bebop”?

CHO: I can’t talk about that. But what’s up for me next, I’m unemployed currently. So —

SREENIVASAN: But what do you look for now? Let’s say you’re Asian or your manager or whoever brings your projects, what’s the thing that automatically says to you, this is something I want to sink my teeth into? Because you’ve done lots of different types of projects.

CHO: You know, for me now, if there’s any personal philosophy, I have in terms of what I’m going to be doing going forward, I think I’m done with the portion of my career where I go this is the smart move or this is the strategic move. I’m going to stop thinking about strategy or any of those things. I think it’s moving forward, if I can. Then you might see me doing the ab infomercial. But if I can, I just like to say, this speaks to me. And I don’t know — and sometimes you don’t know why something speaks to you. Sometimes it’s just has you fall in love. It’s — and you have to do it. And so, I think that’s what I would like to do and not worry about a career trajectory or money or what’s cool or whatever it is, I just would like to do things that speak to me.

SREENIVASAN: John Cho, thanks so much for joining us.

CHO: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.