Pfizer CEO: Omicron Vaccine Is Coming in March

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Now, an important development on the COVID wars. Pfizer has started clinical trials of an Omicron based vaccine to help address the current and future mutations of coronavirus. CEO Albert Bourla has recently been awarded the Genius Prize, or rather the Genesis Prize in recognition of his professional achievements and his contribution to humanity. And he’s joining Walter Isaacson to discuss vaccine development and global health.

WALTER ISAACSON: Thank you, Christiane. And Dr. Albert Bourla, welcome to the show.

ALBERT BOURLA, CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PFIZER: Thank you very much, Mr. Isaacson. And it’s a great honor and great pleasure to talk to you.

ISAACSON: Your company, Pfizer along with your partner BioNTech this week have started clinical trials on a booster shot that’s aimed directly at the Omicron variant. How soon do you think we’ll have them?

BOURLA: I hope in March as we had said before. You know, this not the first time that we are making a tailor (ph) to a variant vaccine against COVID. We have one made for Alpha, for Beta, and for Delta – we never used them because we didn’t know. But what was the (inaudible) was that we designed the process that we would be able to make something like that in 100 days, or less than 100 days. And now, it is the fourth time. Now things look a bit more serious as regards – the need of something different. Also, the protection of three doses against cosocialization [ph] and against Omicron is very, very high. All data indicated is on the 80s. But still, infections is way lower so maybe there is a place for a specific vaccine against Omicron.

ISAACSON: Do you see any future variant on the horizon that you’re already working on?

BOURLA: No. I think what – we are monitoring all of them. And, for example, there is now some new variants of Omicron (inaudible), so there are children of Omicron right now. And the most likely scenario is that the future variants will be children of Omicron because now it’s dominant all over the world. But we are monitoring all of them, but only when we see that if (ph) something – what escapes or has the potential to escape the new protection for our vaccine, this is when we jump and make new one just in case.

ISAACSON: And this new variant of the vaccine you’re doing, do you think it’ll be effective against these children of Omicron as you –

BOURLA: It should be. It should be effective against those children, it should be very effective. Keep in mind that we had so many variants so far that were children of the original strain, and that the vaccines were extremely effective against all of them. The first one that was not responding (ph), now Omicron, has replaced almost everywhere the preexisting variants, predominately Delta. So it is original we presume that new variants will be children of Omicron, although it is not certain. And by the way, what we are trying to do is to develop a vaccine that is not only going to be effective against Omicron, but also will cover the previous variants because that will be the ideal scenario.

ISAACSON: When you develop a new vaccine, you use messenger RNA technology. In fact, you were the first one out with this new technology. And simply put, that tells the cells of our body to make a particular type of protein, like the spike protein on a coronavirus, so that if we get hit with that virus, our immune system is primed. Does that make it real fast to make new variants where you can just recode this molecule and say okay, go after this new variant?

BOURLA: I would say, first of all, you described it extremely well how the mRNA works, and you’re absolutely right. One of the big benefits, it is that you can do in weeks what you did months in other technologies. So this is why we can have within three months, for example, starting in the December and hold – target in March, a fully tested and manufactured ready vaccine. RNA technology allows you just to change one part of the code in the whole vaccine process, everything else remains completely identical. You just reprogram your RNA and then you have completely new version.

ISAACSON: And does the clinical trial process go much faster?

BOURLA: No. The clinical trial process is almost the – exactly the same. We have discussed with regulators all over the world, particularly the high – highly regarded FDA, the main Europe (ph), Japanese, Israelis what exactly they want to see in clinical trials packets. And they basically – they want to see the whole thing as they should, I think. And we are going to do the whole thing.

ISAACSON: The holy grail of vaccines would be one that would take on any coronavirus, a pan-coronavirus vaccine. Are you working on that, and is messenger RNA technology a good platform for that?

BOURLA: I think it is a very good platform for that. The messenger RNA technology is not the holy grail and it’s not good for everything, but particularly for COVID or for a vaccine that you need a small number of antigens and (inaudible), for example, like the COVID coronavirus, I think it’s ideal. We are trying to stay ahead of the virus, and it’s a little challenging to say a pan-corona. Keep in mind that the current vaccine, until the appearance of Omicron, was a pan-corona vaccine because we had 12 variants but it was very – it was very effective against all of them. Now, we are trying to tweak it and make it against also Omicron, which provides – would provide us with the protection against the old and the new. And clearly, we are working also on new tech – on – on a new kind of targeting through mRNA, but maybe could give us even more durable or more effective vaccines. But right now, I think we have a very, very good one.

ISAACSON: It’s been about four or five months since I’ve had my booster shot like many people my age. When should I start thinking about getting another booster?

BOURLA: You know, this is a question that everybody is asking, and there is not always – the health authorities want to see data. The first time that we saw data, and they are still trying to understand them, are coming from Israel where they did a massive – they did a massive relatively campaign of fourth dose. Looks like they are very successful, but we haven’t seen – I haven’t seen the full set of data. They did 600,000 people, and they have a very, very good data record keeping system, all electronic, so that allow us to know every single detail of every single individual of these 600,000 people, not us, them, the ministry of health, and we are waiting to see their data.

ISAACSON: When do you think kids under five will know whether they should get the Pfizer vaccine or one of these vaccines?

BOURLA: You know, we are continuing to study in this population and try to understand the protections that a lower dose of mRNA because we are using very low dose in those kids. Almost – almost 1/10 of the dose that we are using to adults is used in these kids less than 5 years of age. I’m encouraged with – that we will soon have good data to make public. And soon, I hope, let’s say within a month, we should be able to have some more concrete either to file with FDA or at least to discuss.

ISAACSON: What do you say to people who are vaccine hesitant, not the people who are way out there and think it’s some strange conspiracy but people who just kind of feel like I don’t know, this hasn’t been tested enough. How would you convince my aunt to get this vaccine?

BOURLA: It’s – it’s not easy because they are afraid, most people. And they’re afraid from the vaccine. And fear is not something that you can affine (ph) with rational arguments, it’s an emotion. So you need to fight it with an emotion that’s even stronger, and there is only one emotion that is stronger than fear in human beings, love. So what I try to say to those people, it is the decision to affect the decision to vaccinate or not, it won’t affect only your health. It’s going to affect predominantly the health of others and predominately the health of people that you love the most. It’s going to be your grandfather, your grandmother, your mother, your kids, vulnerable population. And so think it twice, try to believe in the science and what the majority of people are doing and conquer your fears by using the love for the people that are close to you.

ISAACSON: Vaccines are only one part of a defense against a great virus. The other is treatments, the ability like Pfizer has with paxlovid to have a treatment, a pill, if we get the virus to make it so it’s not so bad. How long will it be before your viral treatments are available to anybody who just wants to go to the drug store with a prescription?

BOURLA: It is a question of – of quantities. And right now, we have it in all states in the U.S., so people that are getting sick should speak to their physician, if it is appropriate for them, and then they can find it in every state. Of course, it’s not in every single pharmacy so they need to – there are specific pharmacies in every state because we don’t have the quantities yet this month. But the quantities will become greater the month after and even more in March. And then since then, after that, I think we will have enough quantities, not only for the U.S. but for the world, to say that we will be – we would be – we will be, let’s say, available more widely.

ISAACSON: When do you think we’ll be able to treat this just like a common cold or flu rather than something we have to be so afraid of?

BOURLA: I hope if we have that (inaudible), as you said, if we are using, not (inaudible), but we are going to have those available in the timeframe that you said, would say for next spring. If we use these tools, we should be able to go back to normal soon in most of the states in the U.S. and in most of the places that we have used those technologies in the world.

ISAACSON: How does Pfizer and its partner BioNTech make sure that the vaccinations will be equitably distributed around the world?

BOURLA: Look, there were three things that we’ve had to – to make super clear and sure, the first one was to make a vaccine, to have a vaccine so we can make it available. Now it’s considered given, but keep in mind that a year ago, nobody thought that this would be the case. The second is to give it at a cost, that isn’t prohibited to anyone. And we did that from the early days, you can know that the Pfizer is giving the vaccines, a cost of a takeaway meal, for the high income countries zone, for the middle income countries, we are charging half of that. And for the low income countries, we are giving it as cost. And in addition to that, we have agreement with the U.S. government that they purchase from us, it costs 1 billion doses. And then they are giving them now this 1 billion doses to the poorest countries of the world, completely free. And the third condition, of course, was to have enough for all. Now, the first part of last year, we didn’t have enough for all, and it is true that most of the deliveries went to the high income countries that was not related with the fact that they had higher income. It was related with the fact that they had better provisions, they — all of them placed orders, binding orders well ahead of time but that was result because we increase our manufacturing to 3 billion dose. So last year, we deliver to the world 2.6 billion dose. We manufacture 3, and we deliver 2.6 billion. From this 2.6 billion, 1 billion went to middle and low income countries, 38 percent. But it’s only in the second half. Now we are in the situation, that in most African countries, for example, we have enough supply, but they cannot absorb the supply. A lot of them have asked us to pose segments. There is a certainty of lacking infrastructure. And this is where all of us, we should aim our efforts now, to answer your question what needs to be done, we should also help but it is also the work of WHO, Doctors Without Borders, I can name a lot of organizations that they need to help on that so that you can pick vaccination center, they don’t have. They have a cold chain distribution system they don’t have. And also to fight the hesitancy, because in these countries, the anti-vaxxers, let’s say, those that they are reluctant to take a vaccine is way, way higher as a percentage than in their high income countries. So educational campaigns infrastructure is now extends the way.

ISAACSON: some people say that in order to get the vaccine distributed more widely and equitably, we should take away the patents or take away some of the intellectual property that the big drug companies shouldn’t be able to patent these things. What do you say to people who say we should take away the intellectual property?

BOURLA: I think they are wrong. I think if there is a message that the Americans from this pandemic, very strong message, is how valuable for society, it is a thriving private life sciences sector. It was the private sector that deliver the diagnostics, it was the private sector who deliver the vaccines, it was the private sectors who deliver the treatments, it was not the CDC or WHO. And this is what meant to be. And this is why we are having what we have so far. So without intellectual property, there is no private sector because unfortunately, it’s not only good will that give us cure of cancer, it is tremendous investments of people that are willing to invest their money 100 times before they see one project succeed, because that’s the chances in science. So I think they are wrong. And in any case, even in a pandemic will not offer anything, because as I said, the issue right now is not neither price, nor availability. Issues are infrastructure, but we need to all to work to support those countries.

ISAACSON: You just won the Genesis Prize this month. That’s a big international prize. Congratulations.

BOURLA: Thank you.

ISAACSON: And it’s about having values, both Jewish values and values of taking risk like you’ve done. Tell me about your own background. I think you grew up in Thessalonica in Greece, as the son of Holocaust survivors, very few Holocaust survivors in Greece at the time, very few Jewish families left, how did that affect your values and what you’ve done since then?

BOURLA: Look, everybody’s values are affected by the family, one way or another, positive or negative, but this is true. And this happened to me as well. My parents escaped the Holocaust at the last moment, particularly my mother was placed after or actually the teenager in front of the firing squad. And the last moment they withdraw her from the line, because a Christian uncle had paid bribes to my aunties. And this is how her life was spared, and she was leaving the execution place and through her, the machine guns killing everybody else. So when you have an experience like that in your life, and you’re willing to talk to your children, because most corporate survivors didn’t talk about the pains that they injure, but my parents did. That’s a very strong lesson for a child. And the way that my parents spoke to me was never about revenge. It was never about we must shade or paid back to those that they did that to us to our family. It was always, they completely ignored them. Like if they didn’t, they were not part of the equation, the message they were giving us. Life is miraculous. There is nothing that you can do. And nothing is impossible. And I still remember when I was a child telling my mom, I don’t know, I have this difficulty at school. Her waving her finger say, don’t tell me it’s difficult. I was in front of her parish club and I made it. Go ahead and do it. I think that made me who I am.

ISAACSON: Dr. Albert Bourla. Thank you so much for joining us.

BOURLA: No, thank you. Thank you for letting me be here and share my story.