February 18, 2022

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> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.'

HERE'S WHAT IS COMING UP.

A FORMER SYRIAN ARMY COLONEL CONVICTED OF TORTURE IN A LANDMARK RULING.

SO, WHY ARE SOME OLD FOES WELCOMING BESAR INTO THEIR GOOD GRACES AND THEN.

THIS IS A WINDOW, THIS IS A DOOR IN THE CURE FOR EVERYONE.

WITH AN AMERICAN WOMAN CURED OF HIV, I SPEAK TO ONE OF THE RARE PATIENTS TO HAVE UNDERGONE THE LIFE-SAVING TREATMENT.

AND THE AMERICAN DOCTOR WHO IDENTIFIED THE FIRST AIDS CASES OVER 40 YEARS AGO.

MICHAEL GOTLY.

PLUS, ENTREPRENEUR, MARK CUBAN HOW HE'S DISRESPECTING A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY TO MAKE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS MORE AFFORDABLE.

'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

MORE THAN A DECADE AFTER THE START OF THE SYRIAN WAR, A SMALL YET MONUMENTAL STEP TOWARDS JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

ANCHER AFTER THE KILLINGS OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

THEY SENTENCED AN ARMY COLONEL IN THE FIRST EVER TORTURE TRIAL AGAINST ASSAD'S REGIME.

THEY RULED HE WAS A COPERPETRATOR IN AT LEAST 4,000 CASES OF TORTURE, 27 MURDERS AND TWO CASES OF SEXUAL ASSAULT.

THE 58-YEAR-OLD HAD DEFECTED FROM THE SYRIAN REGIME IN 2012 AND FLED TO GERMANY.

HE'S DENIED ALL CHARGES AGAINST HIM.

BUT THIS WAS THE FIRST TRIAL TO HOLD ACCOUNTABLE A SITTING GOVERNMENT AND REPERCUSSIONS COULD SPREAD BEYOND SYRIA AND ANOTHER TRIAL IS UNDERWAY IN GERMANY OF A 36-YEAR-OLD SYRIAN DOCTOR WHO IS ALSO ACCUSED OF TORTURE.

THEY SAY THIS COULD STALL ATTEMPTS TO REENTER INTO THE FOELTD.

SYRIAN SOCIETY GROUPS TO LOBBY AGAINST ASSAD AT A CONFERENCE IN TURKEY THIS WEEKEND.

AND FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR WAR CRIME AND BRITISH SYRIAN LAWYER ARE ALSO ATTENDING AND ATTING THEIR HAT.

THEY SAY THEY WILL NOT DROP THE PURSUIT AND PUNISHMENT OF ASSAD REGIME WAR CRIMES.

A WARNING THE DISTURBING IMAGES AND VIDEO WILL BE SHOWN DURING THIS INTERVIEW.

LET ME START WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE SYRIAN AND YOU SEE HE REMAINS IN POWER DESPITE ALL THE EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM.

WE SEE ALL THE NORMALIZATION.

HIM BEING PUT BACK INTO INTERNATIONAL FORUMS, ETC.

IS THIS AS MUCH ABOUT NOT NORMALIZING BASHAR FOR YOU?

WE'VE SEEN OVER A CENTURY THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP AND APPETITES CHANGE.

BUT WHAT DOES NOT IS THE MOUNT OF CRIMES DOCUMENTED, USING INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT WASN'T SYRIANS THAT PUT THEM TOGETHER.

I DIDN'T DRAFT THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS.

AND THOSE DO NOT HAVE A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS, DO NOT EXPIRE AND THEY DO NOT CHANGE WITH NORMALIZATION OR NOT.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT ASSAD HIMSELF.

ARE IT'S ABOUT THE ENTIRE APPARATUS, THE SYSTEMATIC AND WIDESPREAD BREACHES OF INTERNATIONAL NORMS COMMITTED IN SYRIA.

ASSAD IS ON TOP OF THAT AND THE MOST SENIOR LEADER AND RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES BUT IT'S THE ENTIRE SYSTEM HE LED THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HORRIFIC HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES WE CONTINUE TO SEE UNTIL TODAY.

WE HAVE SPOKEN MANY A TIMES THROUGHOUT THESE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE WARS.

YOU ARE FORMER HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENDER FOR THE UNITED STATES AND NOW YOU'RE AT THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM.

AND YOU'RE VERY, VERY SERIOUS ABOUT THE ISSUE OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

WHAT HAVE WE SEEN IN TERMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE KIND OF CRIMES THAT WE'VE WITNESSED AND THAT ABE RUHAM HAS JUST OUT LANNED?

IN A SENSE, DISAPPOINTING.

CRIMES HAVE BEEN COMMITTED WITH IMPUNITY.

NO ATTACKS ON HOSPITALS OR A SENSE OF WORLD WAR I OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS AND HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT THE WINDOW.

AND THERE HASN'T BEEN THE RESPONSE FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WE SAW WITH YUGOSLAVIA OR OTHER PLACES BECAUSE ASSAD'S BEEN PROTECTED.

THANKS TO THE COURAGE OF THE SYRIANS.

THEY DIDN'T WRITE THE INTERNATIONAL LAW.

THEY'VE RATIFIED THE TREATY.

BUT IT'S THE SYRIANS WHO WERE TO BRING OUT THE DOCUMENTATION GATHERED AND NOW BY THIS INTERNATIONAL MECHANISM IN GENEVA.

AND BROUGHT IT TO INTERNATIONAL PROSECUTORS WITH THE ASSIST ANCE OF VICTIMS AND ELSEWHERE THAT IT MADE IT POSABLE TO PROSECUTE OFFICERS OF THE REGIME WHILE THE REGIME IS STILL IN POWER.

WE'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

THAT'S REMARKABLE AND THOSE CASES ARE BUILDING MOMENTUM AND I THINK THE SIGNAL IS THAT ACCOUNTABILITY CAN'T BE SWEPT UNDER THE RUG.

BAH RAIN MIGHT SEND AN AMBASSADOR TO DAMASCUS.

BUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE MONEY IN SYRIA IS RISKING BEING HELD COMPLICIT IN WAR CRIMES BECAUSE THEY'LL BE BUILDING ON PROPERTY STOLEN FROM PEOPLE THAT WERE TORTURED TO DEATH OR SUBJECT TO OTHER VIOLATIONS.

SO, LET ME THEN MOVE OVER TO EEB RUHEME -- IBRAHIM.

WE'VE SEEN SEVERAL CASES PROSECUTED.

FOR INSTANCE IN GERMANY AND YOU'RE WORKING ON ONE, I BELIEVE WITH THE DUTCH GOVERNMENT.

TELL ME ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RECENT ADDICTION IN GERMANY?

IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM A NARROW LITIGATION SENSE.

FROM A STRATEGIC PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE AN INDEPENDENT AND IMPARTIAL COURT IN A COUNTRY THAT HAS NO KIND OF IMPERIALIST TASKS.

HOW ABOUT THE SYRIANS, INCLUDING MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT FORCES COME UP WITH A JUDGMENT THAT DOES NOT JUST TALK ABOUT THE PERSON'S CONVICTED BUT ABOUT THE PERSON BEING PART OF A WIDER SYSTEMATIC REGIME THAT COMMITS THOSE CRIMES.

WE'RE VERY GRATEFUL TO THE JUDGES FOR OUTLINING THE CONTEXT WHICH IS AS BINDING AS THE JUDGMENT ITSELF.

THE JUDGMENT TALKS ABOUT THE AIR OF STRENGTH, THE CRACKDOWN OF THE REGIME ON PROTESTERS, ABOUT THE DIFFERENT MILITARY INSTITUTIONS THAT EXIST.

SO, THAT CASE IN ITSELF IS, IN MY OPINION, IMPORTANT.

BECAUSE, ONE IT FIGHTS DISINFORMATION AT THE THIS IS JUST A WAR.

IT'S NOT A WAR.

IT'S A CRIME SCENE.

SECOND, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR THOSE TRYING TO NORMALIZE AND GIVE THE AMMUNITION THAT THOSE WE'RE FIGHTING NORMALIZATION, INCLUDING IN THE U.S. CONGRESS AND ACROSS THE WORLD TO SAY LOOK, THERE'S A GERMAN COURT THAT KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING.

IS THE GERMAN CASE ENOUGH?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AND THERE'S ENOUGH KADIAN INITIATIVE THAT MAY END UP IN FRONT OF A COURT OF JUSTICE.

THERE'S TALKS AMONG STATES AND MORE INTEREST TO HOLD INDIVIDUALS TO ACCOUNT FOR THE USE OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS COLLECTIVELY AS STATES.

THE RESPONSIBILITY OF SYRIA AS A STATE, STATE RESPONSIBILITY HAS BEEN PROVEN TO THE MAXIMUM.

WHO ORDERED THE USE OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS?

AND CAN WE FIND LEGAL WAYS THROUGH CRIMINAL MEANS?

AND THAT SHOULD BE DONE COLLECTIVELY.

YES, GERMANY IS ENFORCING BUT MUCH MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I'M ACTUALLY FASCINATED BY THE GERMAN INITIATIVE ON ALL OF THIS.

BECAUSE THE CONVICTION WE SAW IN JANUARY WAS A 58-YEAR-OLD FORMER INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL AND HE WAS CONVICTED IN THE TOWN FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND IT'S THE FIRST TRIAL OF TORTURE BY A MEMBER OF THE SYRIAN REGIME.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S ANOTHER ON TRIAL, A 36 DWROELD.

FRORS AND TELL ME ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANT, STEVE FRNL, GERMANY, SPEARHEADING THIS MOVEMENT, OF HOLDING THE WAR CRIMES ACCOUNTABLE.

A GREAT THING THEY'VE STEPPED FORRD ANDERWARD YOU MEPGDSED THE CONVICTION, THE TRIAL HAS BEGUN.

THERE'S ANOTHER TRIAL SOON TO BEGIN IN BERLIN.

I WOULD NOTE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE ACTIVE IN THIS SPACE TOO.

THE FRENCH HAVE ARRESTED AN INDIVIDUAL AND THEY NOW HAVE JURISDICTION BECAUSE HE WAS ON THEIR SOIL AND THE SWEDES ARE MOVING FORWARD AS WELL IN A CASE.

I THINK THE MOMENTUM -- I THINK WHAT'S HAP ANNING IS YOU'RE GOING TO PREVENT, ASIDE FROM WINNING THE WAR.

BUT BASICALLY THE MESSAGE IS THE JUST CAN'T BE SWEPT UNDER THE RUG AND A TRANSITION BASED ON TRUTH.

AND PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GUYER GO HAVE THEIR FAMILIES ARRESTED AND TORCHED.

SO, LET ME ASK YOU.

YOU HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITNESS AN ANN ACTUAL CHEMICAL WEAPONS ATTACK.

SFLRS I WAS HON IDLIB THE DAY THEY WERE USED AND I HAD TO VISIT THE HOSPITAL FOR A DIFFERENT REASON AND I REMEMBER SEEING PEOPLE ON VENTILATORS, WHICH I KNOW IS SOMETHING WE GOT USED TO BECAUSE OF COVID.

BUT AT THE TIME WAS SHOCKING.

AND WHAT WAS MORE SHOCKING IS WHILE I WAS IN SYRIA -- BEING A U.K. LAWYER AND IN SYRIA.

THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE SAYING THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN WHEN IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

THIS IS A NARRATIVE THAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO FOR ARE YEARS.

AND THEREFORE, ANY OF THESE INITIATIVES HELPED CONSOLIDATE THE TRUTH.

SYRIANS HAVE SPOKEN OUT.

INTERNATIONALS WHO AID JUSTICE EFFORTS HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH SYRIANS FOR YEARS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

IT WAS STILL SURREAL FOR SOMEONE WHO'S WITNESSED THIS TO GO TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL TO SEE COUNTRIES SAY WE'RE NOT AWARE OF THIS.

AND THAT'S NOTBACK OF LACK OF EFFORT OF SYRIANS.

AND IT'S REMEMBER --

AND YOU MENTIONED CAESAR.

BECAUSE CAESAR IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT ELEMENT TO ALL THIS.

IN TERMS OF ACTUAL, RAW, HARD EVIDENCE, WHICH CAN OFTEN BE HARD TO COME BY.

WE ACTUALLY, IN 2014, WE BROKE THE STORY ALONG WITH THE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER.

HE WAS A FORMER PHOTOGRAPHER WITH THE SYRIAN MILITARY POLICE WHO HAD DEFECTED AND LEAKED THOUSANDS OF PHOTOS.

THEY DEPICTED BOD AYES OF ALLEGED DETAINEES ABUSED AND KILLED WHILE IN SYRIAN CUSTODY.

A TEAM OF EXPERTS TOLD TUS WAS DIRECT EVIDENCE OF SYSTEMATIC TORTURE AND KILLING BY THE ASSAD REEJEEM.

AND AS WE SHOW THESE PICTURES, WE NEED TO SAY THEY'RE GRAPHIC, EXAMPLES OF THE KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT ARE NOW AVAILABLE TO PROSECUTORS FOR FUTURE TRIALS.

I WANT TO PLAY THIS BIT OF A SOUND BITE SEVERAL YEARS LATER WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM IN 2017 WHEN HE CAME THE UNITED STATES.

I WAS HORRIFIED, TERRIFIED EVERY DAY OF THE JOB I WAS DOING.

I WOULD LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT HORRENDOUS WAYS THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE SLAUGHTERED AND TORTURED TO DEATH.

THE ONLY CRIME THEY HAD IS THEY CALLED FOR THEIR OIN DIGNITY AND FREEDOM.

AND I WOULD PICTURE MY OWNSELF ON THE FACE OF THE BODIES AND MANY TIMES I SAW PEOPLE I KNEW PERSONALLY, BECAUSE BOUGHT OF THE TORTURE IT WAS HARD TO RECOGNIZE THEM.

VERY BLOOD THIRSTY REGIME.

IBRAHIM, HOW MUCH OF A DEBT DO VICTIM SDWHZ IDEA OF GLOBAL ACCOUNTABILITY, HOW MUCH OF A DEBT DO THEY PLAY TO CAESAR WHO REALLY DID RISK HIS LIFE TO SHOW THE WORLD WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THESE THOUSANDS OF PHOTOS WHICH FWHURSTRUMENTAL IN HOLDING THE REGIME TO ACCOUNT.

THIS IS NOT JUST A ONE PERSON INITIATIVE.

FAMILIES MURDERED CAME OUT AND SPOKE.

THOSE WERE WHEN THE REGIME SIDE LEAKED.

OTHERS ABROAD WENT TO THE POLICE AND COMPLAINED.

SYRIANS HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS SOMETHING THE REGIME HAS PRESENTED US FROM DOING FOR THE LAST 40.

THE MERE FACT SYRIANS WERE ABLE TO ASSEMBLE THEMSELVES, FORM HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS, SURVIVOR ASSOCIATIONS TO COME TOGETHER AND VICE THEIR CONCERNS AT THE SAME TABLE WHERE THE SYRIAN REPRESENTATIVE SITS IS A FORM OF ACCOUNTABILITY AGAINST THIS REGIME AND IT'S STARTED AND IT'S NOT GOING BACK.

NO MATTER WHAT SORT OF NORMALIZATION OR ATTEMPT OF NORMALIZATION ARE GOING ON BECAUSE THE VICTIMS ARE THERE, THEIR STORIES ARE REAL.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE WEST VERSES EAST, NO MATTER HOW MUCH RUSSIA TRIES TO MAKE THIS AS SUCH.

THIS IS A GLOBAL ISSUE.

WHEN I SAW THE WHOLE UKRAINIAN TENSION ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN UKRAINE IF A MILITARY ATTACK TOOK PLACE.

WHAT LESSONS ARE THE WORLD LEADERS TAKING.

DON'T CARE ABOUT US.

CARE ABOUT YOUR OWN CITIZENS, WHO MIGHT BE VICTIMS AND YOU PROBABLY HAVE MANY LOOKING AT SYRIA SAYING IF I KILL A GOOD AMOUNT OF PEOPLE AND COMMIT SO MANY CRIMES, I WILL BE TAKEN TO GENEVA TO NEGOTIATE.

DO IT FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION, PUT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM YOU'VE TRIED SO HARD TO PRESERVE BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS FELL DOWN.

DON'T MAKE THIS ABOUT SYRIANS.

IT WAS NICE WHEN THEY SAY WE CARE ABOUT YOU, VICTIMS.

BUT THIS IS A MUCH BIGGER STORY THAT EFFECTS THE ENTIRETY OF THE WORLD.

SO, TO THAT POINT, A MUCH BIGGER STORY, AS WE KNOW, THAT EFFECTS THE ENTIRETY OF THE WORLD.

AS WE HOLD THEM SO DEAR, HUMAN RIGHTS.

I WANT TO READ TO YOU FROM THE GERMAN LAWYER WHO REPRESENTS THE VICTIM OR SOME OF THEM IN THE RECENT TRIAL.

HE SAID IF YOU DON'T START NOW, THEN IN TEN YEARS YOU CANNOT GET ASSAD OR HIS CHIEF OF INTELLIGENCE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE.

FRIRNS OTHER WORDS, I THINK HE'S ELUDING TO THE FACT A THAT WE'VE GOT TO GET AS MUCH AS WE CAN NOW SO WHEN WE CAN, WE CAN REEL IN THE BIG FISH.

EXPLAIN THE STRATEGY, STEVEN.

AND IT'S THE KEY STRATEGY TO SUCCESS.

GERMANS ANALYZED EVERY PHOTO AND FOUND ROCK SOLID EVIDENCE.

IT'S ALL THE MATERIAL THAT'S COMING OUT OF SYRIA, THE MILLION PAGES OF DOCUMENTS THAT SYRIAN EMPLOYEES HAVE BROUGHT OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

FRARLS PRIVATE FOUNDATION THAT LAYS OUT-WHOLE MACHINERY OF BRUTAL MURDER AND DEATH, THE ORDERS GIVEN TO DISAPPEAR.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS.

WHAT WAS INITIALLY A PEACEFUL UPRISING.

THAT SAME PATTERN IS BEING FOLLOWED ELSEWHERE IN MYANMAR AND SUDAN AND ETHIOPIA.

AND THE IDEA THAT COLLECT THAT EVIDENCE NOW, AND DO IT TO A HIGH STANDARD, HOPE ETHERE ARE U.N. BOD AETZ.

LIKE THERE'S A MECHANISM THAT CAN GATHTER KWB AND IMBEFD T.

IS HE UPSET THAT THE FUTURE OF OUR WORLD DEPEND SAID ON IT.

? LET'S BRING BACK TO THE ACTUAL VICTIMS AND THOSE BRAVE ENOUGH TO WITNESS AND TESTIFY IN PUBLIC.

AND SHE SPOKE TO A SYRIAN REFUGEE THAT DID TURN UP AS A WITNESS IN THE PROCESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

SHE WAS TORTURED TEN YEARS AGO.

HE SAYS HE'S BEEN TORMENTED BY THE TRAUMA EVER SINCE.

RELIVING THAT TRAUMA AND CONFRONTING HIS JAILER, HE SAYS, WAS A DUTY TO THOSE WHO NEVER MADE IT OUT TO TELL THEIR OWN STORIES.

I GIVE MY TESTIMONY AUGUST 15 GTS MANE 20.

TWRRBL FELT A HUGE BURDEN FROM MY SHOALEDARDS.

THIS MEMORY I KEPT WITH ME WILLINGLY BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO BE LOST AND SUFFERING WOULD BE IN VEIN.

YOU MUST HAVE EMPATHY, AS A SYRIAN.

I KNOW YOU'RE SYRIAN-BRITISH.

BUT AS A SYRIAN WITH YOUR COUNTRY FOLK, MANY WHO HAVE BEEN SCARED TO TESTIFY.

TALK ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES TO PIT A MEM BF OF A DEADLY REJIECHBL THE DOG.

YOU SUBJECT GLOWER TIRE FAEM FOR DISAPPEARANCE AND TORTURE.

YOU SUBJECT YOURSELF NOOLTY OF TALK SAID.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SAY THESE ARE ALL LIES AND YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT.

SO, WE'RE INCREDIBLY INDEBT TO EVERYONE WHO SPOKE OUT.

BUT FULLY EMPATHETIC FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT AND ASSISTING IN THEIR OWN WAYS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE UNABLE TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED AND RELIVE HORRIFIC MEMORIES OF RAPE AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE AND TORTURE.

BUT IN THEIR OWN WAY, SHAPING STRATEGY, ACCOUNTABILITY, COMING TO US AS A COMPASS TO REMEMBER WHY PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF AND OTHER SYRIAN AND NRT NATIONAL -- INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS.

IT'S HEARTENING FOR THOSE OF US CONCERNED AND INTERESTED IN ACCOUNTABILITY THAT YOU SEEM TO BE MAKING AT LEAST SOME STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION OF JUSTICE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

WITH THAT DETERMINATION TO PURSUE JUSTICE, WE TURN TO STUNNING MEDICAL NEWS.

IN THE CURE FOR HIV.

THE FIRST WOMAN AND PERSON OF COLOR HAS RECOVERED.

WHEN WING TREATED FOR LEUKEMIA, SHE RECEIVED A TRANSPLANT FROM AMBALBLEICAL RUG.

AND DR. GOTTLIEB, WHO FIRST IDENTIFIED THE DISEASE IN 1981.

GENTLEMA WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THE WHOLE WORLD TO HAVE BEEN CURED OF HIV AND IT'S A REMARKABLE STORY AND YOUR JOURNEY HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE.

DIAGNOSED IN 2003.

THEN IN 20, YOU WERE DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER.

ALL OF THIS WHILE UNDERGOING A FREEMT SIEGER.

HE WAS PHYSICALLY AND MEANTINALLY DURING.

IT WAS A JOURNEY I DON'T WISH TO ANYONE.

SO, TELL ME ABOUT -- YOU DID KEEP YOUR IDENTITY, NOT SECRET BUT YOU DIDN'T COME OUT PUBLICLY WHEN YOU HAD THIS -- YOU WERE PATIENT LONDON OR THE LONDON PATIENT WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED YOU HAD BEEN CURED.

WHAT WAS THE PSYCHOLOGICAL DRAMA GOING ON AT THE TIME THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO NECESSARILY REVEAL YOURSELF?

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW I WAS UNDERGOING TREATMENT AT THE TIME.

MY MEDICAL TEAM WAS CAUTIOUS AND THEY WANT TO PROTECT MY IDENTITY FOR THE TIME BEING UNTIL I GO THROUGH MORE TREATMENTS AND RECOVER.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND A TRANSPLANT.

SO, I NEED TO RECOVER AND THAT'S THE REASON WE DECIDE FIRST TO JUST USE THE PATIENT AND A YEAR LATER WE USE MY NAME.

SUM UP FOR US, IF YOU CAN, THE NATURE OF YOUR TREATMENT.

I HAD BLOOD CANCER, STAGE FOUR, VERY AGGRESSIVE.

THE ONLY WAY I COULD SURVIVE IS HAVING A BONE MARROW TRANSPLANT WITH A BONE DONOR.

WHICH I HAD IN 2016, WHEN I WAS OFFERED THIS GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A TRANSPLANT.

CURE MY CANCER AND HIV.

AND THEN WE GO THROUGH TRANSPLANT IN 2016.

IT IS A REMARKABLE STORY.

YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO THE LONDON PATIENT, ADAM, WHAT DO YOU THINK, SINCE YOU WERE THE FIRST TO IDENTIFY HIV AND AIDS IN MEN IN 1981?

WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE DECADES LATER THIS AMERICAN WOMAN, THE FIRST AMERICAN WOMAN AND FIRST PERSON OF COLORER TO HAVE BEEN CURED AND ADAM'S STORY.

THERE'S BEEN ENORMOUS PROGRESS.

THE MEDICATIONS CONTROL HIV AND REDUCE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS FROM AIDS ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO ELIMINATE HIV FROM THE BODY.

FROORS HEAR ADAM'S STORY AND THAT OF NEW YORK PATIENT, THE MOST RECENT WOMAN, IT'S ENCOURAGING THERE'S A PROSPECT OF ELIMINATING HIV ALTOGETHER.

AT LEAST WITH THIS HIGH TECH TRANSPLANTS TECHNOLOGY.

THE HOLY GRAIL, I THINK, IS TO ELIMINATE HIV, WHICH IS QUIETLY HIDING IN SOME CELLS IN THE BODY AND ELIMINATED WITHOUT SUCH RADICAL MEASURES AS ADAM HAD TO ENDURE.

AND REMIND US SO WE GET A VIEW OF HOW DESPERATE IT WAS WHEN HIV FIRST SURFACED AND NOBODY KNEW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT AND FOR YEAR, THERE WAS NO ANTIERMVIRALS.

WAS A DEATH SENTENCE.

I TAKE YOU BACK TO 1981.

THE VERY FIRST PATIENTS DIED WITHIN NINE MONTHS OF THEIR DIAGNOSES.

AND FRANKLY WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY HAD A.

THE DISEASE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A NAME.

IT WAS ONLY A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER THAT THE VIRUS WAS DISCOVERED AND THAT'S VERY FORTUNATE.

BUT WE HAD NO MEDICINES TO TREAT IT WITH AND THAT CONTINUED UNTIL 1987 OR SO WHEN THE VERY FIRST MEDICINE, AZT, WAS INTRODUCED.

I WOULD SAY THE LAST 30 YEARS HAS BEEN THE EVOLUTION OF THERAPY AS WE KNOW TODAY.

AND COMBINING THEM IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

YOU GET TO THE POINT TODAY WHERE MANY PATIENTS TO BE TREATED WITH ONE PILL ONCE A DAY.

BUT THE BEGINNING YEARS WERE JUST HORRIBLE.

WE HAD UNITS OF PATIENTS WITH THOURT OR 40, USUALLY YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN IN THE PRIME OF THEIR LIVES, DYING WITH MULTIPLE, HORRIBLE INFECTIONS, ONE AFTER ANOTHER.

AND SEEMED LIKE IT'S SOMETHING THAT COULDN'T BE TURNED AROUND AND HOW LONG THIS WAS GOING TO CONTINUE.

YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN.

YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T REMEMBER THE BEGINNING OF THE AIDS ACADEMIC OR PANDEMIC EVEN.

BUT YOU KIND OF WERE GIVEN THE DEATH SENTENCE.

WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU WHEN YOU WERE FIRST DIAGNOSED WITH HIV AND THEN CANCER?

I WAS TOLD IT WAS A DEATH SENTENCE BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME YOU CAN LIVE TEN YEARS OR MAX.

20, IF YOU'RE LUCKY.

THAT WAS BIG CHOKE FOR ME.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WITH HIV WOULD DIE QUICKLY.

AND TELLING ME ONCE AGAIN I'M GOING TO DIE.

BUT THIS TIME I HAD A DIFFERENT APPROACH.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW WHEN I HAD MY HIV DIAGNOSED, I COULDN'T TELL ANYONE BECAUSE I WAS AFRAID.

WITH CANCER I WAS ABLE TO TELL EVERYONE.

I SAY PEOPLE RIGHT NOW SEE HIV AS A HATE AND CANCER AS LOVE.

I WANT TO CHANGE THAT NARRATIVE.

ON ONE -- A I WANT TO GIVE HOPE TO PEOPLE AND CHANGE THAT NARRATIVE.

FIRST OF ALL, WELCOME TO THE NEW FAMILY.

I WANT TO MEET HER AND WELCOME TO THE FAMILY.

WELL, THAT'S REALLY GREAT AND I'VE HEARD YOU SAY YOU WANT TO BE AN AMBASSADOR FOR HOPE ON THIS ISSUE.

LET ME ASK YOU THE COLD, HARD MEDICAL FACTS, DR. GOTTLIEB, BECAUSE WHILE IT'S FANTASTIC TO HEAR THE NEWS OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, EACH OF THEIR CASES IS QUITE SPECIALIZED AND DR.

FAUCI, WHO, AS WE ALL KNOW, WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN THE COCKTAIL OF ARV, ETC., HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE PATIENT IN NEW YORK AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HER CURE.

THIS PERSON HAPPENED TO HAVE AN UNDERLYING DISEASE, WHICH REQUIRED A STEM CELL TRANSPLANT.

I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE APPLIED TO THE 36 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING WITH HIV.

SO, DR. GOTTLIEB, DR. FAUCI ALWAYS THE REALEST.

EXPAND ON WHAT HE'S SAYING IN TERMS OF THE 36 MILLION UTH RTZ WHO ARE INFECTED AND IF YOU CAN TELL US THE SPECIFIC TREATMENTS THAT PATIENT NEW YORK OR THE NEW YORK PATIENTS UNDERWENT.

AS DR. FAUCI POINTS OUT, THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL CASE.

FIRST OF ALL A CASE OF A WOMAN, WHICH IS A GREAT THING.

WOMEN IN GENERAL HAVE BEEN UNDERREPRESENT ARED IN HIV CLINIC TRIALS.

AND IN THIS CASE, THIS PERSON HAVING TO HAVE TWO CONDITIONS.

LEUKEMIA AND HIV, WHICH COULD BE TREATED SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE STEM CELL TRANSPLANT.

SECONDLY, IT'S A NOVEL TECHNIQUE OF STEM CELL TRANSPLANTATION DEVELOPED BY THIS TEAM AND IT'S ADMIRABLE AND HAS POTENTIAL TO BE EXTENDED TO DOZENS OF PATIENTS AROUND THE WORLD BUT NOT FOR EVERYONE.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CANCER, SUCH AS LEUKEMIA OR LYMPHOMA, A AM HAD AND THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE HIV AS WELL.

THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO REPLACE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM.

AND USING CHEMOTHERAPY IN PARTICULAR, WHICH IS DIRECTED AGAINST THE CANCER.

AND THAT IS THOUGHT TO ELIMINATE THESE INFECTED CELLS WITH HIV THAT HIDEOUT AND ARE QUIET.

AND THEN TO REPLACE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM WITH ONE THAT IS RESISTANT TO HIV USING STEM CELLS THAT LACK A PARTICULAR RECEPTOR ON THEIR SURFACE THAT MAKE THEM RESISTANT TO HIV.

SO, THERE'S A TISSUE-MATCHING PROCESS THAT GOES INTO THIS.

AND WHAT THIS TEAM DID DIFFERENTLY WAS USED FIELD STEM CELLS.

OR NEWBORN STEM CELLS FROM AN INFANT, MATCHED PARTIALLY FORRY CIPIENT AND ADDED ADULT STEM CELLS.

BECAUSE THE ONES THEY ADDED ON DAY TWO SOMEHOW ALLOWED THESE CORD BLOOD STEM CELLS TO PROLIFERATE MORE AND REPOPULATE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

AND SO, BASICALLY, THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE TO ELIMINATE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF ONE PERSON WHO HAS HIV AND LEUKEMIA.

YOU HAVE TO CURE THE LEUKEMIA, REDUCE THE BURDEN OF HIV TO ZERO AND THEN REPLACE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM AND RECONSTITUTE IT AND GROW IT.

AN INCREDIBLE STORY AND AN INCREDIBLE ACT OF SCIENTIFIC PROWESS AND INVESTIGATION.

SO, WHAT DO YOU SAY, DR. GOTTLIEB, APPARENTLY IN 2020, OVER 1.5 MILLION PEOPLE WERE NEWLY INFECTED WITH HIV.

AS WE KNOW IN AFRICA, THAT CONTINENT HAS BEEN WORSE HIT.

SOME 700,000 NEW INFECTIONS ARE ARE THE LATEST FIGURES.

WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT HOW TO CONTROL AND CURE ON A BIG SCALE?

I THINK ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS THAT WE HAVE TOOLS IN OUR TOOL BOX NOW WITH REGARD TO TREATMENT AND PREVENTION SO WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF NEW CASES AND TREAT PEOPLE EFFECTIVELY WITH THE MEDICINES WE HAVE SO PEOPLE CAN LIVE VERY LONG WITHOUT ELIMINATION OR CURE OR FUNCTIONAL CURE OF THE VIRUS.

AT THE SAME TIME, THERE'S ABOUT TO BE A PARALLEL TRACK OF LOOKING FOR WAYS TO ACHIEVE FUNCTIONAL CURE USING METHODS THAT ARE LESS LIFE THREATENING THAN THE TREATMENT ADAM WENT THROUGH.

WERE THERE TIMES DURING YOUR TEEMTS --L AND YOU WONDERED WHETHER YOU WOULD SURVIVE MUCH LESS CURED.

I WAS ASKED TO HAVE THE TRANSPLANT I WAS TOLD I HAVE 10 TO 20% CHANCE OF SURVIVAL.

YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT KNOWING YOU COULD DIE.

IT'S THE FIRST 100 DAYS.

DO WE GO THE TRANSPLANT WORKED?

AND THAT'S NERVE WRACKING.

AND EVERY DAY YOU COUNT THE DAYS, HOURS.

AND TO SEE YOU MANAGED 100 DAYS.

I THINK OUR CASES, LIKE THE-FAELG.

AND WE VETHE AND WE WANT TO TELL PEOPLE THIS IS A WINDOW.

INTO THE CURE.

HOW WERE YOU CHOSEN IF YOU WERE CHOSEN?

HOW DID YOU GET FOUND TO BE THE BENEFICIARY OF THE TREATMENT THAT YOU UNDERWENT?

I WAS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE.

IT'S WONDERFUL ESTABLISHMENT.

WE WERE ABLE TO PROVIDE HIM WITH THAT MATCH.

AND THAT WAS MULTIPLE FACTORS.

ETHNICITY TO FIND A MATCH.

AND THEN WHEN I WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY, THEY TOLD ME WE WANT TO TRY TO SEE IF WE CAN'T REPLICATE.

I WAS VERY EXCITED.

I ALWAYS SAY THAT WAS FOR ME WINNING THE LOTTERY FOR ME, THAT DAY WHB WHEN THEY ASKED ME THAT ON THE DOUBLE DECKER BUS.

I FWHAUTZ CHOSEN.

AND I WAS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

IT REALLY IS INCREDIBLE.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS PANDEMIC.

TELL ME HOW YOU DEFINE IT NOW.

BUT THE AIDS PANDEMIC, MANY PEOPLE, WHEN COVID STARTED SAID LOOK, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND A VACCINE AGAINST AIDS FOR 40 YEARS.

WHAT HOPE ARE WE GOING TO HAVE FOR COVID AND THE COVID VACCINE WAS DEVELOPED SO, SO RAPIDLY AND WE UNDERSTAND NOW THAT MODERNA IS LOOKING AT LAUNCHING, WELL, IT IS MAYBE DOING EARLY SCALE TRIALS AGAINST HIV.

SO, TWO TWOEL TWOELEE CARAT.

AND A VACCINE, WHICH HAS ELUDED US FOR THE LAST 35 OR SO YEARS.

AND DESPITE A HUGE EFFORT, HIV IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT FROM COVID.

COVID HAS THIS LOVELY SPIKE STICKING OUT OF ITS SURFACE, WHICH IS A NATURAL TARGET FOR THE VACCINE.

MUCH EASIER TARGET WHEREAS HIV IS WYLIE IN THE WAY IT ENTERS A BLOOD CELL.

IT HAS AN INTRICATE AND THAT'S WHAT'S MADE IT DIFFICULT.

AS WELL AS THE PROPENSITY TO MUTATE.

I THINK IT'S EXCITING IN THIS REGARD BECAUSE THEY CAN FINE TUNE THINGS WITH MESSENGER RNA VACCINES AND FINE TUNE THEM AND CODE THEM FOR THESE DIFFERENT HIV PROTEINS AND IT MAY BE A COMBINATION OF DIFFERENT PROTEINS THAT ARE ATTACKED WITH MODERNA VACCINE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL.

IT'S EARLY.

THE TRIALS HAVE ONLY STARTED.

LOOKING AT THE TOLERANCE AND TOXICITY OF THEIR MESFRPGER RNA VACCINE.

WE HAVE ONLY A FEW SECONDS LEFT.

I WAND TO LEAVE BY ASKING BOTH IN A FEW WORDS.

HOW YOU FEEL TODAY WITH THE CURES?

I FEEL VERY HOPEFUL.

I NEVER GIVE UP HOPE.

AND I HONE NOBODY DOES.

AND I FEEL VERY ENCOURAGED.

IT'S GOOD TO HEAR ABOUT SUCCESS STORIES.

THIS YOUNG WOMAN IN NEW YORK DOING WELL.

14 MONTHS OFF OF HER ANTIRETROVIRAL MEDICINES.

AND APPARENTLY FREE OF HIV BY ALL PARAMETERS WE KNOW OF.

STILL ONLY 14 MONTHS BUT SIGNS RRL FABLEABLE.

STILL WORKING HARD ON FINDING SOLUTIONS FOR HIV, A CURE, AND FURTHER SOLUTIONS FOR HIV PREVENTION, HOPEFULLY WITH A VACCINE EVENTUALLY IN THE LONG RUN.

IT'S WONDERFUL.

IT'S GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU BOTH.

SUCH A POSITIVE STORY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

> MEANTIME, STANDARD PRESCRIPTION DRUGS IN THE UNITED STATES REMAIN WAY TOO COSTFLY MANY.

MARK CUBAN IS ATTEMPTING TO BRING DOWN SURPRISES AND DUDUNG DOWN HIS VARM SOUGHTTLE COMPANY.

SO, LET'S GET THIS STRAIGHT.

YOU HAVE YOUR NAMES ON ONE OF YOUR NEW VENTURES CALLED THE MARK CUBAN COST PLUS DRUG COMPANY.

THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS ALMOST UNIVERSAL.

BIPARTISAN.

THE FRUSTRATION LEVEL THAT PEOPLE HAD WITH THEIR ABILITY TO AFFORD DRUGS THEIR DOCTOR PRESCRIBES THEM.

THE STATISTICS ARE OVERWHELMING.

SO, WHAT WERE EASY OPPORTUNITIES YOU SAW FOR DISRUPTION?

IT'S INTERESTING YOU STARTED WITH MARTIN SHKRELI.

BECAUSE THE THOUGHT WAS IF HE CAN JOOK UP THE PRICE, WHY CAN'T YOU CUT THE PRICE SIGNIFICANTLY AS WELL?

IS THERE MUST BE A LOT OF INEFFICIENCIES TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

AND THE MORE YOU DIG INTO HOW DRUGS ARE PRICED, SOLD.

THE SUPPLY CHAIN THAT IS DEVELOPED TO ENABLE THE PERCHICE AND SALE, IT'S JUST CONVOLUTED.

A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE THE TENDENCY TO ASSUME THIS IS ONLY IN THE HANDS OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT MEDAL MEN AND WHAT PROFITS ARE THEY TAKING IN

IMAGINE THERE'S THE HOT RESTAURANT IN YOUR SIT AAND THE RESTAURANT PIRES A DOOR PERSON TO BE THE ARBITRATOR.

THAT'S ANALYSIS TO INSURANCE COMPANIES.

TO DETERMINE WHAT DRUGS ARE GOING TO BE SOLD OR NOT SOLD.

THEY'RE THE KEEP ORF WHAT'S CALLED THE FORMULA.

IN ADDITION, THEY ALSO TRY TO NEGOTIATE.

BECAUSE THEY'RE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO MANAGE, THEY ALSO GO TO THE DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS OF THE DRUGS AND SAY IF YOU WANT YOUR DRUGS SOLD BY THIS INSURANCE COMPANY AND BE ON THE FORMIAL AIR LIST, YOU NEED TO SELL IT TO ME AT YOUR BEST PRICE AND BY THE WAY I I ALSO WANT YOU TO KICK ME BACK A REBAIT SO I MAKE MY BOTTOM LINE LOOK BETTER.

SO WHAT WE SAID IS THAT'SLER SNOIMS.

WE'LL CREATE OR HOINFIRM MAENLSAGER.

SGHL AND PICK ANY ORGANIZATION.

COMPANIES THAT SELF INSURE AND WE'LL GO OUT THERE AND BUY THOSE DRUGS BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO ASK FOR ANY REBAITS.

AND SO, IT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE MANUFACTURER, THE PHARMA COMPANIES TO WORK WITH US BECAUSE THEIR PRODUCTS GET DELIVERED TO CONSUMERS AT THE BEST POSSIBLE PRICE.

WHAT WE'VE DONE EFFECTIVELY IS SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THAT PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGER GET AWAY WITH GETTING REBATES.

WE'RE GOING TO PASS ALL THOSE SAVINGS ON TO PATIENTS AT A COST LESS 15%.

SO, THERE WAS A STAT, I THINK LAST YEAR.

IGSZY E% OF THE MAJ MAN AAGER MARKET IS OWNED BY TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES.

THESE ARE INCREDIBLY POWERFUL PLAYERS HERE.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE LOBBYING NISSAL TO KEEP THE STATUS SKOE.

YES TWB IS A CONCERN.

DHIE HAVE A LOT OF POUR AND LOBBY AND MUSCLE.

THE HOPE IS WE'LL GET ENOUGH TRACTION WITH CONSUMERS.

AND THAT'S WHY I PUT MY NAME ON IT.

THERE'S SNB RESPONSIBLE FOR IT AND THAT'S ME.

ANY OF THE BIG COMPANIES AND OTHERS YOU MENTION DECIDE TO TAKE ACTION, THEY'LL KNOW AND I'LL BE VERY CLEAR AND LOCAL ABOUT WHAT'SING NLPUB YOU'RE A BILLIONAIRE BUT WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THREE MAJOR COMPANIES AND A SYSTEM THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR SO LONG THAT THERE'SALL TNL WAS A ZIRSANCE TO CHANGE.

YOU KNOW THE FIRST STWIECH BUY MEDICINE OVER THE INTERNET OR HAVE IT DELIVERED HOME.

HOW DO YOU GET OVER THAT HURDLE?

BY BEING THE LOW-COST PROVIDER.

THERE-PEOPLE MAKING DECISIONS TO DECIDE BETWEEN FOOD OR MEDICATION.

OR NOT RATION THEIR MEDICATIONS.

AND IF YOU'RE ABLE TO GET MEDICATION FROM COST PLUS DUGS.COM, CHEAPER THAN YOUR CO PIE, PEN POEM ARE GOING TO FIND THEIR WAY TO US AND THEY HAVE.

PARTLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PLAN.

WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN TRIED BEFORE OR IF IT HAS, WHY HANTZ IT SUCK SED?

I HAVE TO SHOUT OUT TO MY PARTNER AND IT'S NRM HAPPY AND KPAPICALLYTUATE AND THOSE INVESTORS WANT TO MAXIMIZE THEIR RETURN.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M IN THIS FOR.

IUM THE LUCKIEST GUY IN THE WORLD FINANCIALLY.

I'M SET FOR GENERATIONS.

THIS IS A CHANCE TO HAVE AN IMPACT.

IF YOU'RE TRYING TO OPTIMIZE EARNINGS FOR INVESTORS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS.

IF YOU'RING TO THIS BOSS YOU'RE OFFERING THE LOWEST COST SO YOU CAN CONTINUE TO REINVEST.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT AND OTHERS ARE NOT.

WALMART OR AMAZON.

WHY DON'T THEY BECOME PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGERS?

OF COURSE.

AND ACTUALLY THEY'RE ALREADY IN THE BUSINESS.

THEY BOTH HAVE PHARMACIES AND COMPETE AT SOME LEVEL AND LOOK, IF THEY JUST SQUASH US AND THE -- BUT TO DO SO, THEY HAVE TO BEAT OUR PRICING, THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'LL BE THERE WAITING IF THEY EVER DROP THE BALL TO DO THIS AGAIN AND IF SOMEONE COMES ALONG AND IT'S COST LESS 3%, WHO'S GOING TO BE MAD AT THAT.

WHY DOES TAKE BILLIONAIRE TO DO THIS?

DID THE SYSTEM NOT WORK?

ARE THERE FORCES SUSTAINING THE STATUS QUO?

I MEAN --

OF COURSE.

CAN'T WE CHANGE THIS OURSELVES?

POLITICIANS WANT TO GET ELECTED AND WE PLAY TO THE EXTREMES.

NO ONE SAYS LET'S JUST LOOK IN THE MIDDLE.

LET'S JUST TRY TO TAKE THIS ONE STEP AUTOTIME.

THEY WALK IN AND TALK ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO CHANGE THIS NAVY OF BATTLESHIPS THAT CAN'T BE TURNED QUICKLY, IF IT AT ALL.

YOU HAVE TO START PICKING UP AT THE EDGES AND STEP BY STEP GET IT DONE.

IT'S NOT EVELYN A DISH CUSHION OF MEDICARE FOR ALL VERSES THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

IT'S WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES DO WE FIND OURSELVES IN.

WHAT ARE THE STEPS WE CETAKE.

EVERYBODY MAKESIC P THERE NEEDS TO BE TRANSPARENCY.

AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS ON A

YOU SHOULD SAY THIS SHOULD BE FOR PROFIT.

IT'S WITH DRUGS LESS EXPENSIVE TO PRODUCE, MORE NECESSARY FOR MORE PEOPLE.

AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPASSIONATE CAPITALISM THAT CAN EXIST.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT SHARE HOLDERS WOULD WANT TO SAY EVERYWHERE ELSE.

YOU CAN DO THIS BECAUSE THAT'S NOT YOUR PRIMARY GOAL BUT MOST OF THE MARKET DOESN'T [ INAUDIBLE ]

THERE ARE DRUGS THAT ARE CREATED BY THE NIH, THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH.

WE'RE NOT SMART ON HOW WE DO THE LICENSING OF THOSE DRAWINGS.

IT'S BEEN A FEW YEARS WHERE 113 OUT OF 1EN THE 16 SINGLE MOLECULE DRUGS THAT WERE THE MOST POPULAR WHENEVER IT WAS IF I EVER YEARS AGO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO EARN ROYALTIES FROM THOSE DRUGS.

WE NEED RECOGNIZE IF TAX PAY AER MONEY CREATES SOMETHING, IT NEEDS TO EEKTER PAY US REVENUE BACK OR BE SOLD AT A LOW-COST PRICE AND THAT'S PART OF THE LICENSING REQUIREMENT.

FOR DRUGS A LOT OF THE ADVANCED CANCER THERAPIES, THIS THERE IS A HIGH FAILURE RATE AND FOR BETTER OR WORSE, WE'RE GOING TO SUBSIDIZE THEIR LOSSES VIA THEIR WINS, THEIR SUCCESSES AND THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.

WE'RE NOT THE ONLY SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.

IF YOU GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES TWLB ARE OTHER COUNTRIES CREATING A DRUGS AND DOING GOOD JOB BUT THERE'S NOBODY THAT STAND OUT THAT WE SHOULD COPY OR WHO DOES A BETTER JOB.

A LOT OF DRUGS ARERIATED BECAUSE THE FUNDING IS DONE TO TAKE CHANCES.

YOU HAVE TO DO LOOK AT WHATHEY'RE INVOLVED OR NOT.

WHY NOT FOR PROFIT AND RUN THIS AT THE MARGIN AND THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH?

I WANT TO FIND DRUGS THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO JUST BUY A PILL FROM SOMEBODY ELSE BECAUSE IT'S MANUFACTURED AS A GENERIC.

YOU MAY HAVE TO DO IT YOURSELF.

AND WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO BUILD THE FACTORY WE'RE BUILDING IN DALLAS TO BE ABLE TO MANUFACTURE IT ON OUR OWN AND PUSH PRICING DOWN EVEN LOWER.

TRYING TO CREATE A LEVEL OF SELF RELIANCE IS GOING TO TAKE THE MARK A UP SO WE CAN EXTENT TO OTHER DRUGS.

YOUR TWITTER HANDLE POINTS TO YOUR OWN NFT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS ABOUT.

RIGHT NOW IF YOU CAN HELP EXPLAIN.

IF I GO AND I BUY A MARK CUBAN TEAM, I UNDERSTAND TRADING CARDS, COLLECTIONS AND SO FORTH.

BUT WHAT IS THE UTILITY OF A PUFFERS LIKE THIS WK TECHNOLOGY AND WHY ARE THEY?

WE HAD MP 3 COLLECTION AND IT'S DIGITAL.

YOU CAN LISTEN TO IT.

NFT IS JUST A DIGITAL FILE THAT HAS ITS PROV INNOCENCE, ITS OWNERSHIP INFORMATION AND TRANSACTION HISTORY STORED ON A BLOCK CHAIN SO WE CAN PROVE WHAT IT IS AND WHO CREATED IT AND ALSO -- AND THE MOST INTERESTING PART FOR ME AND WHAT GOT ME EXCITED ABOUT IT IS IF YOU'RE A CREATOR OF CONTENT AND ALL CONTENT IS DIGITAL BECAUSE YOU'RE ABLE TO USE SOMETHING CALLED SMART CONTRACKS.

YOU'RE ABLE TO ATTACK ROYALTY TO THE N, IF T THAS STOTTS AENOUGH.

IF I WANT TO SELL IT FOR A $100 WITH A 15% ROYALTY, THEN YOU COME ALONG AND BUY IT FOR 200.

15% OF THE $30 GOES BACK TO ME, THE CREATOR AND THAT STAYS IN PERPETUITY.

THAT'S A UNIQUE FEATURE.

I THINK ABOUT IT AS AN TURN TO AND START APPLYING IT TO OTHER APPLICATIONS.

LOOK AT THE COST OF TEXTBOOKS.

IMAGINE IF COLLEGETECTS BOOKS WERE BOUGHT AND SOLD AS NFT, RATHER THAN A STUDENT HAVING TO GO TO THE USED BOOK STORE AND MAKING A DECISION AND FIGURE OUT WHERE TO SEND IF.

THERE WHILE THEY GET NONE OF THE.

IMAGINE IF THEY WERE NFTs AND IT WAS DEPOSITS AND YOU COULDN'T MAKE COPIES.

THE PUBLISHER AND EDITOR COULD SELL IT FOR LESS.

THE PUBLISHER AND OTHER COULD TAKE 25% OF EVERY RESALE.

THAT'S AN APPLICATION THAT CAN PUSH TO RAISING THE LEVEL OF TEXTBOOKS RECENTLY.

DO YOU THINK WE'LL GET A POINT WHERE CRYPTO CURRENCY IS PART OF HOW WE LIVE?

BECAUSE SPILL RIGHT NOW PEOPLE MIGHT BE PARTICULAR WITH THE WORD PIT WOIN.

AND IT'S NOT AN EASY THING TO DO AND IF THEY WANT TO BUY YOUR NFT, THEY HAVE TO FIGURE HOW THE TEW PLAY COIN.

THERE ARE STILL HURDLES THERE.

HOW LONG UNTIL THIS BECOMES EASIER FOR THE LARGER PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION TO ENGAGE WITH?

THIS IS VERY ANATIONAL TO THE EARLY DAYS OF THE INTERNIST IN 1995, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO LISTEN TO AUDIO ON THE INTERNET, YOU HAD TO HAVE A 56 K MODEM, DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE FROM YOUR ISB.

THEN YOUED TO THE CLICK ON A FILE THAT THEN LAUNCHED ANOTHER PLAYER AND WHEN WE THINK OF STREAMING WITH NETFLIX, IT'S THERE AND WE CLICK ON WHATEVER WE WANT TO WATCH.

THE SAME THING WITH CRYPTO.

THE CHALLENGE, JUST LIKE BACK THEN, IT WAS HARD TO SEPARATE THE PRICE OF INTERNET STOCKS FROM THE APPLICATION.

THE SIGNAL VERSES THE NOISE WITH CRYPTO, IT'S REALLY HARD TO TELL ONE FROM THE OTHER.

ALL THE SPECULATION RIGHT NOW IS JUST NOISE.

IN TERMS OF THE UNDERLYING APPLICATION.

BOOK APPLICATION, THE DIGITAL COLLECTIBLE APPLICATION, THOSE ARE BUILT ON SOMETHING CALLED SMART CONTRACTS AND THOSE ARE GOING TO GET BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER.

THE TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO MATURE.

SO, THERE WILL BE A POINT.

MIGHT TAKE FIVE OR TEN YEARS.

WE'LL SAY REMEMBER WHEN YOU HAD TO HAVE ANOTHER WALL ANDT FIND THE RIGHT CRYPTO FOR THE RIGHT SNAP IT WILL SIMPLIFY OVER TIME.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

TRYING TO MAKE HEALTH CARE MORE AFFORDABLE FOR MORE AMERICAN.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM.

REMEMBER YOU FOLLOW US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

AND DON'T FORGET TO JOIN US NEXT TIME.