Anti-Corruption Expert: The West is Enabling Autocracies

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: And you’re an opposition activist. Do you think any of these people have any chance against Putin or is that just fantasy by the West, trying to ratchet up the pressure on the country in order to try to get Russian people to, you know, to whatever they do?

MIKHAIL KASYANOV, FORMER RUSSIAN PRIME MINISTER: On this stage, that’s absolutely impossible to have change — a regime change by, I would say, democratic movement in Russia. Last year, Putin undertook all of his efforts to destroy all democratic opposition, just many people, many activists were put in jail, many of them just had to immigrate and live in other countries. And a great fear that is absolutely was a tactic last year. And right now, there is no actual democratic moment exists as a power. But as I said, people started to ask more questions and the propaganda didn’t provide them with appropriate answers. That’s why they are maturing and waking up, but not enough during this year to be massive demonstrations on the streets, and claim that Putin should get out. It is in the future. If now, in the war with Ukraine, Ukraine will win. And Putin will be seen as defeated and that will be the beginning of Putin’s era ends.

AMANPOUR: And, Mikhail Kasyanov, can you just explain from your perspective what is Putin’s obsession with Ukraine? I mean, this has been going on for a long time. And also, the fact that he’s wrapped himself partly in a religious blanket, the patriarch of Russia, Kirill, has actually blessed the military commanders of Russia who have gone in to wage this war. What is Putin’s obsession with Ukraine?

KASYANOV: The major point for Mr. Putin is the recognition by the West, the recognition of Crimea as Putin’s Russia territory. That’s the major point. All others just like major threat and others, this is just artificial explanation. He needs recognition by himself and the respect on the wall that he’s a great leader, et cetera. He thought in 2014 that after annexation he would brag to western politicians, and in a few months, they would recognize that Crimea is part of Russia. But eight years past, and nothing happened like that. West appeared to be more principled than Putin expected. Putin believes — and right now, that everything is saleable in the world. The only question is price. But the West based — appear two principles. And Transatlantic unity shock Mr. Putin. And those sanctions, the packages of sanctions which were imposed shocked him. He didn’t expect such a reaction. That’s why he’s nervous. That’s why he’s so angry on everyone.