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> HELLO, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & CO.'
HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
WHY ARE WE WILLING TO LIVE WITH THIS CARNAGE?
WHY DO WE KEEP LETTING THIS HAPPEN?
HOW MUCH MORE OF THIS WILL AMERICA BARE AFTER THE LATEST MASSACRE OF 19 CHILDREN AND TWO TEACHERS IN TEXAS?
I ASK A FIREARMS EXECUTIVE FIGHTING THE NRA.
AND AN ACTIVIST WHO LOST HIS SON IN THE COLUMBINE SCHOOL SHOOTING.
> PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAYS RUSSIA IS LEVELING MASSIVE MILITARY MIGHT NOW AGAINST THE DONBAS.
FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER ON WHERE THE WAR IS HEADED AND RISKING IT ALL IN CONFLICT.
> WE SAW THAT HE HAD DREAMS AT ONE POINT.
BEING POOR AND BLACK IN AMERICA, IT WAS MORE DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO ACHIEVE THOSE.
REMEMBERING GEORGE FLOYD TWO YEARS ON.
HIS DEATH STILL REVERBERATES THROUGH AMERICA.
MORE ABOUT HIS LIFE AND STRUGGLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE.
♪
> 'AMANPOUR & CO.' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY --
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
HOW MANY CHILDREN WILL DIE BEFORE ACTION IS TAKEN?
WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN ONLY IN AMERICA?
ALWAYS THE SAME QUESTIONS AFTER A MASS SHOOTING LIKE THE ONE AT A TEXAS SCHOOL THAT KILLED 19 CHILDREN AND THEIR TWO TEACHERS.
TONIGHT, WE REMEMBER FIRST AND FOREMOST THE VICTIMS.
A 10-YEAR-OLD AND A FOURTH GRADER FROM THE SAME CLASS, THE TEACHER, FIVE OF THE 21 WHO WERE MURDERED, MANY ARE STILL BEING FORMALLY IDENTIFIED.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN DELIVERED A DEEPLY PAINED RESPONSE.
HE HIMSELF UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO LOSE A YOUNG CHILD.
TO LOSE A CHILD IS LIKE HAVING A PIECE OF YOUR SOUL RIPPED AWAY.
THERE'S A HOLLOWNESS IN YOUR CHEST.
YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE BEING SUCKED INTO IT.
YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT.
SUFFOCATING.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF IT.
WE HAVE TO ACT.
DON'T TELL ME WE CAN'T HAVE AN IMPACT ON THIS CARNAGE.
THE IDEA THAT AN 18-YEAR-OLD KID CAN WALK INTO A GUN STORE AND BUY TWO ASSAULT WEAPONS IS JUST WRONG.
DEEPLY PERSONAL FOR HIM.
THIS TIME, OF COURSE, IT WAS CHILDREN.
TEN DAYS AGO IT WAS BLACK AMERICANS WHEN AN 18-YEAR-OLD RACIST KILLED TEN PEOPLE IN BUFFALO, NEW YORK.
THE STATISTICS ARE STAGGERING.
SINCE SANDY HOOK, THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 900 SHOOTINGS ON SCHOOL GROUNDS IN THE UNITED STATES.
CONSIDER THIS FOR ONE MOEMENTS.
MORE MASS SHOOTINGS THIS YEAR THAN DAYS.
GUN VIOLENCE AFFECTS EVERY FACET OF AMERICAN LIFE.
IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE, AT SCHOOL, THE GROCERY STORE, IN CHURCH, ON THE STREET.
AS ONE REPORT ASKS, WHILE THE SHOOTING BREAKS HEARTS, WILL IT CHANGE MINDS?
JOINING ME IS RYAN BUS SEY, WHO IS BATTLING AGAINST THE INDUSTRY AND A GUN CONTROL ADVOCATE WHO LOST HIS SON IN THE COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING IN 1999.
TOM, I EXPECT FOR YOU EVERY TIME THISTRIGGERS A HOBRHORRIBLE MEMORY.
I HAD A SLEEPLESS NIGHT LAST NIGHT.
THINK GS ABOUT WHAT THOSE PARENPA PARENTS ARE GOING THROUGH.
THOSE WHOSE CHILDREN SURVIVED, THEY WERE WAITING FOR INFORMATION.
TO KNOW IF THEY WERE ONE THE VICTIMS.
THINKING ABOUT THE CHILDREN THAT WERE IN THOSE CLASSROOMS.
THEIR LIVES ARE CHANGED.
THEY ARE GOING TO BE GOING THROUGH TRAUMA FOR SOME TIME.
IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO PRO HE IS -- PROCESS WE STILL HAVE THIS HAPPENING.
WE TALK ABOUT IT WHEN IT HAPPENS.
THEN WE DO NOTHING.
THAT'S THE HORRIBLE POINT.
OVERSEAS WHERE I AM, PEOPLE JUST CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT.
ORDINARY PEOPLE AND LEADERS, POLITICIANS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD THEIR OWN INSTANCES, FEWER THAN THE UNITED STATES, BUT SOME MASS SHOOTINGS WHERE THEY HAVE TAKEN IMMEDIATE LEGISLATION AND LAWS.
IT HASN'T COME BACK.
LET ME ASK YOU, RYAN, BECAUSE YOU ARE INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THIS, TO THE QUESTION WHY IN AMERICA AND WHEN WILL THIS CHANGE, WHAT DO YOU SAY?
WELL, FIRST OFF, IT'S GOOD TO BE ON WITH TOM.
I GAVE HIM A BIG HUG A WEEK AGO.
I LIKE TO TELL PEOPLE -- I WISH I DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL THEM THIS.
I HEAR A LOT -- I GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND I HEAR A LOT OF STATEMENTS INSINUATING WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S BROKE.
Announcer: IN THE UNITED STATES.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE.
I THINK WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS WORKING JUST EXACTLY HOW IT'S DESIGNED.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WE EXPECT TO DO WHAT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF L LOBBING LIGHTED MATCHES INTO A DAY WITH GASOLINE DAY AFTER DAY AND THINK THERE WON'T BE AN EXPLOSION.
THERE WILL BE AN EXPLOSION.
WE SEE THE EXPLOSIONS.
WE HAVE KNOWN THIS IS COMING.
ONE THING I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT IS THAT THE TACTICAL GEAR WORN BY THE BUFFALO SHOOT ER AND THE SHOOTER IN UVALDE, THIS TACTICAL GEAR WAS NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO BE DISPLAYED IN THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY'S OWN TRADE SHOWS AS LATE AT 15 YEARS AGO.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE INDUSTRY ITSELF KNEW THAT THIS STUFF WAS INCENDIARY FOR A COMPLEX DEMOCRACY.
LOBBING IT INTO THE POPULOUS WOULD CREATE DISASTROUS OUTCOMES.
HERE WE ARE LIVING WITH DISASTROUS OUTCOMES WITH ALL SORTS OF HATE AND FUL POLITICS.
WE SHOULD NOT BE SHOCKED.
ANYBODY THAT SAYS THEY ARE STUNNED OR SHOCKED ABOUT THIS, WE SHOULD STOP THAT.
THIS IS THE LOGICAL OUTCOME OF WHAT WE ARE DOING.
THAT'S REALLY CHILLING.
MY MIND IS FOCUSED ON WHAT JUST SAID.
THE BEGINNING OF YOUR STATEMENT, THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO WORK.
IT'S CHILLING.
IT'S CHILLING FOR PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR CHILDREN LIKE TOM.
I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU AN ANGUISHED STATEMENT BY SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY ON CAPITOL HILL YESTERDAY.
THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD HIS FELLOW SENATORS.
WHAT ARE WE DOING?
WHY DO YOU SPEND ALL THIS TIME RUNNING FOR THE UNITED STATES SENATE?
WHY DO YOU GO THROUGH ALL THE HASSLE OF GETTING THIS JOB, OF PUTTING YOURSELF IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY IF YOUR ANSWER IS THAT AS THE SLAUGHTER INCREASES, AS OCCUR KIDS RUN FOR THEIR LIVES WE DO NOTHING.
WHAT ARE WE DOING?
WHY ARE YOU HERE?
IF NOT TO SOLVE A PROBLEM AS EXISTENTIAL AS THIS.
THIS ISN'T INEVITABLE.
THESE KIDS WEREN'T UNLUCKY.
THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN THIS COUNTRY.
NOWHERE ELSE.
NOWHERE ELSE DO LITTLE KIDS GO TO SCHOOL THINKING THEY MIGHT BE SHOT THAT DAY.
NOWHERE ELSE DO PARENTS HAVE TO TALK TO THEIR KIDS AS I HAVE HAD TO DO ABOUT WHY THEY GOT LOCKED INTO A BATHROOM AND TOLD TO BE QUIET IN CASE A BAD MAN ENTERED THAT BUILDING, NOWHERE ELSE DOES THAT HAPPEN EXCEPT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
IT'S A CHOICE.
IT'S OUR CHOICE.
TO LET IT CONTINUE.
THE SENATE BACKING UP WHAT RYAN JUST SAID, THAT THIS IS HOW THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED TO WORK IN AMERICA.
TOM, AGAIN, YOU AND YOUR FELLOW GRIEVING FAMILY MEMBERS MUST HAVE DONE A LOT OF LOBBYING, MUST HAVE DONE A LOT OF ATTEMPTING TO PERSUADE YOUR CONGRESS WOMEN, YOUR REPRESENTATIVES TO ACTUALLY TAKE SENSIBLE GUN LAWS, WHICH THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE WITH.
WHAT'S IT ACTUALLY LIKE TO TALK TO THEM AND TO HAVE THEM -- I DON'T KNOW, LIE TO YOUR FACE OR SAY IT'S NOT POSSIBLE?
FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT AT THE STATE LEVEL, THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.
WE DID CHANGE COLORADO LAWS.
A NUMBER OF STATES HAVE CHANGED THEIR LAWS.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT GUNS CROSS STATE LINES JUST AS EASY AS AN AUTOMOBILE DOES.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED A NUMBER OF LAWS THAT ARE UNIFORM ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
IN WASHINGTON, NOTHING HAPPENS.
NOTHING.
IT'S A COMPLETE STALEMATE.
IT'S LARGELY BECAUSE OF ONE INDUSTRY, ONE INDUSTRY AND THE NRA DOES THE BIDDING FOR THAT INDUSTRY.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT AFTER COLUMBINE, THE NRA -- IT'S IRONIC, AFTER COLUMBINE, THE NRA HAD ITS NATIONAL CONVENTION IN DENVER TEN DAYS LATER.
THEY CUT OFF MOST OF THE CONVENTION, ESPECIALLY THE TRADE SHOW, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE SEEING WHAT WAS IN THE TRADE SHOW.
NOW THIS WEEKEND, THREE DAYS -- FOUR DAYS AFTER THIS HORRIFIC SHOOTING, THE NRA IS GOING TO BE MEETING IN HOUSTON.
I THINK IT'S A SAFE BET -- I THINK RYAN MIGHT AGREE, THEY WILL NOT ALLOW THE MEDIA INTO THE TRADE SHOW WHERE THEY SEE THE KIND OF EQUIPMENT THAT RYAN IS TALKING ABOUT.
TOM, LET ME PUT THIS TO RYAN THEN.
THAT IS JUST STAGGERING TO EVEN THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE STATE WHERE WE JUST HAD THIS MASSACRE OF CHILDREN.
RYAN, YOU TOLD 'THE NEW YORK TIMES' RECENTLY THAT, QUOTE, THE AR-15 TO MOST PEOPLE IN THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY, IT'S A STATEMENT.
IT'S A MIDDLE FINGER.
TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT MIDDLE FINGER.
WHY DOES THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY WANT TO FLIP A MIDDLE FINGER AT AMERICA, AT ITS CHILDREN, AT THE WORLD?
WHY?
IT'S A REALLY -- IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THE ANSWER PROVIDES A REALLY TWISTED WINDOW INTO OUR CULTURE.
ABOUT THE TIME THAT TOM DESCRIBES AFTER THE 1999 SHOOTING IN COLUMBINE, THE NRA FIGURED OUT THAT CRANKING UP RACIST, MIDDLE FINGERS TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, COULD ENERGIZE A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF PEOPLE TO BECOME SO INCENDIARY THAT THEY ARE HELD BELOW THE BOILING POINT.
THOSE PEOPLE WILL DO IRRATIONAL THINGS.
THEY WILL VOTE IN IRRATIONAL WAYS, WHICH WE HAVE SEEN IN ELECTIONS RECENTLY.
THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY JOINED FORCES WITH THE NRA AND ESPECIALLY AS PRESIDENT OBAMA STARTED TO LEAD IN THE POLLS IN 2007.
BECAUSE THE EXACT SAME THINGS THAT DRIVE THIS KIND OF INCREDIBLY DIVISIVE POLITICS THAT THE NRA HAS LET ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND HANDED OFF TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, THOSE DRIVE FIRE ARMS SALES.
THE REASON THAT THE AR-15 IS THIS SYMBOL, THAT'S SO CONTRARY TO WHAT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS BELIEVE, BECAUSE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS BELIEVE GUNS ARE SERIOUS THINGS THAT NEED TO BE TREATED WITH RESPONSIBILITY AND WAVING AROUND GUNS LIKE MRIDDLE FINGER IS NOT RESPONSIBLE.
WHEN YOU HAVE THIS HATE, FEAR AND RACISM, POLITICS AND GUNS, THEN YOU HAVE THESE SYMBOLIC THINGS THAT DRIVE BOTH POLITICS AND GUN SALES.
THAT'S WHY THE RADICALIZATION ON THE RIGHT, AS I ASSERT -- I WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THERE.
IT'S ALL ABOUT HOW THIS HAS HAPPENED TO OUR COUNTRY.
I'M TIRED, PROBABLY TOM IS, TOO, GETTING THE QUESTIONS, HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?
AS SENATOR MURPHY SAYS, IT HAPPENED PURPOSEPURPOSEFULLY.
THERE'S A PURPOSE TO THIS.
YOU HAVE AR-15s AS MIDDLE FINGERS.
LET'S JUST STATE AGAIN THAT ALL THE POLLS SHOW THAT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, IT DEPENDS WHAT QUESTIONS, BUT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BELIEVE THAT GUN LAWS SHOULD BE MADE STRICTER AND THERE SHOULD BE BACKGROUND CHECKS AND SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL.
I'VE BEEN LISTING AND WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS.
EVERY TIME IT HAPPENS, WE TALK TO THE SAME PEOPLE.
THERE'S THE PRESS, WE ASK SIMILAR QUESTIONS.
WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT SOME BLOG POSTS BY THOSE WHO LOOK AT THE HISTORICAL MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES.
WE KNOW THAT BACK IN THE -- I GUESS IT WAS '70s OR '80s, CORRECT ME IN I'M WRONG, THE NRA STARTED TO SHIFT THIS GUN ISSUE FROM HUNTING AND SPORTS, WHERE IT WAS LOGICALLY MEANT TO BE, OVER INTO THE POLITICAL FIELD.
AT THE SAME TIME, STARTED TO CONFLATE -- LET ME READ THIS.
THE UNFET TERED RIGHT TO OWN AN CARRY WEAPONS IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S IDEOLOGY OF INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY.
LAWMAKERS AND ACTIVISTS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO OVERCOME REPUBLICAN INSISTENCE ON GUN RIGHTS DESPITE THESE MASS SHOOTINGS.
THAT'S FROM HEATHER COX RICHARDSON.
IT'S A PATHOLOGY WRAPPED UP IN THIS IDEA OF SPECIAL AMERICAN LIBERTY.
IS THAT RIGHT, RYAN AND TOM?
TOM, LET ME ASK YOU AS SOMEBODY WHO LOST A CHILD TO THIS.
ABSOLUTELY.
IT SELLS WELL.
KEEP IN MIND THAT WHEN THAT CHANGE HAPPENED IN THE NRA, ALSO THE INCIDENTS OF HUNTING, THE NUMBER OF HUNTERS HAS GONE DOWN IN THIS COUNTRY.
THERE'S BEEN A TREND.
WE HAVE BEEN URBANIZING.
THEY SAW A NEED TO FIND NEW MARKETS.
THAT'S WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT.
IT'S FINDING NEW MARKETS, WHETHER IT'S RECRUITING WOMEN, WHETHER IT'S RECRUITING PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO SHOOT THE AR-15s ON RANGES.
WHATEVER MARKET THEY ARE GOING FOR, THEY ARE REACHING FOR A NEW MARKET.
THE NRA IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT IN THEIR MAGAZINES TO SUPPORT THAT GUN INDUSTRY.
THAT INCLUDES THOSE WHO SEE THIS AS A FUNDMENTAL AFUNDMENTAL RIT BE TAMPERED WITH.
IT GETS PEOPLE FIRED UP AND BUYING MORE GUNS.
WE HAVE SEEN GUN SALES RISING IN THIS COUNTRY.
THAT LOBBY SAYS MORE GUNS WILL MAKE US SAFER.
CLEARLY, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
RYAN, WHEN YOU WERE IN THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY, AND NOW AS YOU LOBBY AGAINST THIS PATHOLOGY AS SOME CALL IT, HOW MUCH HELP DOES THE NRA, THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY, THE POLITICAL ACTION GROUP THAT SUPPORTS THIS STUFF GET FROM WHAT MIGHT CALL USEFUL IDIOTS IN THE PRESS, THE PEOPLE WHO JUST CARRY ON DEFENDING THIS AND SUGGESTING THAT ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BE SENSIBLE ABOUT GUN CONTROL IS SOME RADICAL?
WHAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THAT?
EVEN THE GOVERNOR OF TEXAS, ABBOTT, HE ONCE SAID AFTER THE LAST ONE THAT THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE IT LESS POSSIBLE.
THEN FINALLY, HE LAWS PERMITLESS CARRY.
CARRY A WEAPON WITHOUT A PERMIT.
IT'S ALL DOUBLE-TALK AND CONSTANT GINNING UP IN THE MEDIA AS WELL.
RIGHT?
IT REALLY IS.
YOU ASK HOW IMPORTANT IT IS.
IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.
THE THROUGH LINE OF MY BOOK IS THAT THIS WAS -- ALL OF THIS STUFF WAS DEVELOPED BY THE NRA AND THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY AND HANDED OFF TO THE POLITICAL RIGHT AND TRUMP.
ANY QUESTION THAT PEOPLE ASK THEMSELVES ABOUT THE FIREARMS INDUSTRY, JUST ASK THAT ABOUT THE POLITICAL RIGHT AND TRUMPISM.
HOW IMPORTANT ARE TALKING HEADS?
HOW IMPORTANT IS THIS BIG CULTURE WAR?
IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.
IT IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.
I THINK FOR MANY IN THE NRA AND LEADERSHIP, IT'S NOT ABOUT GUNS.
GUNS HAPPEN TO BE THE THING THAT WILL GIN UP THE POPULOUS TO SUCH A DEGREE THAT THEY WILL DO IRRATIONAL THING.
THAT CAN NEVER HAPPEN WITHOUT A TUCKER CARLSON, GREG ABBOTT, RON JOHNSON.
I COULD GO ON AND ON.
THEY ARE CRITICAL TO THIS.
IT FALLS APART AND IT'S A SMALL SPLICE OF GUN OTHERS.
THEY NEED THEM TO BE REALLY, REALLY LOUD, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DROWN OUT EVERYBODY ELSE WHO MAY NOT BE GINNED UP.
YOU MENTIONED TRUMPISM.
IT PREDATES TRUMP.
THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME.
I READ A STA ITISTICS BY 'THE WASHINGTON POST.'
THEY FOUND IN TEN YEARS, MORE THAN 300,000 AMERICAN CHILDREN HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THIS.
NOT KILLED BUT AFFECTED BY IT IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
TOM, WE ARE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.
WE KNOW WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.
WHAT DOES SOMEBODY LIKE YOU DO, AN ACTIVIST LIKE YOU DO NOW?
WHERE DO YOU SEE ANY EXIST FROM THIS TERRIBLE SITUATION?
I THINK THE MAIN THING FOR ME IS REACHING THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE.
THE FACT IS THAT AMERICANS DO SUPPORT THEIR BASIC FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
BUT MAJORITY UNDERSTANDS THE NEED FOR RESTRICTIONS ON THAT.
THEY UNDERSTAND THAT.
THEY ARE FOOLED BY PEOPLE TELLING THEM, THIS IS ABOUT CONFISCATION, THIS IS CONFISCATION.
WE HAVE TO REACH MORE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE.
MANY OF THEM GUN OWNERS.
WE HAVE TO CHALLENGE THEM TO CHALLENGE THE STATEMENTS AND THE CLICHES AND THE ARGUMENTS OF THE GUN LOBBY.
CONVINCE THEM THAT -- EVEN IF YOU ARE AN NRA MEMBER, THEY ARE NOT REPRESENTING YOU.
THEY'RE NOT REPRESENTING EVEN GUN OWNERS.
LET'S FACE IT, THE NRA HAS 4 MILLION OR 5 MILLION PEOPLE.
THAT'S 1% OF THE POPULATION.
YET WE KNOW THAT A NUMBER OF THOSE NRA MEMBERS AREN'T CRAZY ABOUT WHAT THE LEADERSHIP IS DOING.
THEY BELONG BECAUSE THEY ARE INTOS SHOOTING AND NEED THAT MEMBERSHIP.
THEY ARE CONSIDERED ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL LOBBIES IN WASHINGTON.
THE AARP HAS 35 MILLION PEOPLE.
THE NRA 5 MILLION.
AND YET MANY PEOPLE CONSIDER THE NRA MORE POWERFUL THAN AARP.
WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT.
YOU CHANGE THAT BY REACHING OUT TO PEOPLE AND HAVING CONVERSATIONS.
I LIKE TO DO MORE PRESENTATIONS TO PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE.
NOT JUST PREACHING TO THE CHOIR AND PEOPLE ON MY SIDE OF THE ISSUE, BUT REACHING THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MID.
TH THAT'S NOT EASY.
IT'S NOT.
TO FOLLOW UP, HOW DO YOU THINK -- IS IT ABOUT REACHING THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE?
LET'S NOT FORGET THIS IS ALL IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS INCREDIBLE POLARIZATION ON EVERYTHING, WHETHER IT'S WOMEN'S RIGHTS, WHETHER IT'S VACCINES AND MAMAS.
WHERE DO YOU SEE AN OFF RAMP?
TOM IS RIGHT.
WE HAVE TO REACH OUT TO THESE PEOPLE.
I THINK GUN OWNERS HAVE TO STEP UP AND SOLVE THIS.
MY WIFE, WHO IS THE HERO IN MY BOOK IN MY LIFE, TELLS ME, THIS ISN'T MY PROBLEM, THIS IS YOU GUYS.
YOU HAVE TO STAND UP.
I'M WORKING WITH GABBY GIFFORDS AND HER ORGANIZATION TO FORM A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS FOR SAFETY ORGANIZATION SO PEOPLE HAVE A VOICE.
I KNOW THEY ARE OUT THERE.
TOM KNOWS THEY ARE OUT THERE.
WE HAVE TO DRAWN OUT THE LOUD VOICES THAT HAVE TAKEN OVER THE DEBATE.
WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM A NEW VOICE.
I'M WORKING ON THAT.
GOOD.
GOOD LUCK TO YOU BOTH.
RYAN AND TOM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US.
> CONDOLENCES ARE POURING IN FOR THE VICTIMS OF THIS TRAGEDY FROM EVERY CORNER OF THE GLOBE.
INCLUDING FROM UKRAINE AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.
RUSSIA IS TURNING ITS REMAINING MIGHT ON THE DONBAS REGION, HE SAYS.
ONE OFFICIAL DESCRIBING IT AS AN INSANE NUMBER OF RUSSIAN TROOPS.
PUTIN MADE A RARE, SLIGHTLY -- A RARE VISIT TO WOUNDED SOLDIERS IN A MOSCOW HOSPITAL.
LET'S GET THE LATEST FROM THE FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER.
HE IS ALSO THE AUTHOR OF 'TO RIS RISK IT ALL.'
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
CAN I ASK YOU -- IN THE CONTEST OF -- THE CONTEXT OF THIS WAR, THE WAR, NATO IS FIGHTING WITH REAL GUNS FOR REAL FREEDOM, WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN YOUR COUNTRY AND MANY PEOPLE WRAPPING THIS UP IN THE NOTION OF FREEDOM?
I THINK AS A MILITARY OFFICER, A FOUR STAR ADMIRAL, SOMEONE WHO DEVOTED HIS LIFE TO THE PROFESSION OF ARMS, FIRST IT SICKENS ME TO SEE WEAPONS OF WAR AVAILABLE TO ANY 18-YEAR-OLD.
IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU CAN'T LEGALLY BUY A BEER UNTIL YOU ARE 21 YEARS OLD.
ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.
YET, WE ALLOW 18-YEAR-OLDS TO GO OUT AND PURCHASE LONG GUNS.
WE HAVE IT UPSIDE DOWN.
WE ARE REAPING THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR EXTREMELY POOR POLICY DECISIONS.
WE HAVE WANDERED INTO A DARK FOREST HERE.
WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
MY SECOND IMPRESSION IS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE.
IT'S THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD -- WE PURPORT TO BE A LEADER AS A NATION, WE CAN'T HAVE OUR HOUSE IN SUCH AWFUL DISORDER.
IN OTHER WORDS, THIS IS HURTING US NOT ONLY AT HOME WHERE IT BREAKS OUR HEARTS, BUT IT HURTS US IN THE WORLD AS OTHERS LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES AND QUESTION OUR ABILITY TO LEAD IN ANY CONTEXT FOLLOWING EVENTS LIKE THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.
AND YET, YOU WILL PROBABLY AGREE THAT YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR PRESIDENT HAS ACTUALLY LED A REMARKABLE COALITION, A REMARKABLE MOBILIZATION ALONG WITH ALL THE NATO COUNTRIES TO CONFRONT THIS VERY TERRIBLE THREAT TO ALL OF OUR FREEDOMS AND D AND DEMOCRAT SCIES.
HOW WELL IS IT GOING FROM NATO'S POINT OF VIEW?
WITH THE REPORTS OF AN UPTICK IN RUSSIAN ARTILLERY AND TROOP NUMBERS IN THE EAST, HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE BATTLEFIELD RIGHT NOW?
FIRST OF ALL, AS WE ALL KNOW, THIS IS A FOOT RACE FOR LOGISTICS.
LOGISTICS IS NOT THE GLAMOROUS PART OF WAR.
THE IDEA OF GETTING AMMUNITION, WEAPONS, FOOD, FUEL, COMMUNICATIONS, MEDICAL SUPPORT AND GETTING IT TO THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME IS CRUCIAL IF YOU ARE GOING TO SUCCEED.
S SO FAR, RUSSIA HAS BEEN VERY POOR AT THIS.
UKRAINE, WITH THE HELP OF ALL OF US, HAS BEEN WINNING THAT RACE.
HERE IS WHAT WORRIES ME NOW.
BECAUSE PUTIN'S PLAN FAILED SPECTACULARLY, BUT TO HIS ADVANTAGE ADVANTAGE, HE CAN CONCENTRATE THOSE FORCES, IT MAKES LOGISTICS EASIER.
YOU ARE SEEING RUSSIA TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE SHORTENED LOGISTICS BATTLE LINES TO IMPROVE THEIR POSITION ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
THAT OUGHT TO CONCERN US.
IT MEANS NATO AND THE WEST, OUR JOB IS TO REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS TO WIN THAT LA ' LOGISTIC FOOT . I SAY ABOUT PRESIDENT SATURDAY ZELENSKYY, GIVE HIM THE TOOLS.
HE WILL DO THE JOB, LIKE WINSTON CHURCHILL SAID ABOUT GREAT BRITAIN IN THE RUN-UP TO WORLD WAR II.
NATO FOR A WHILE WAS WORRIED ABOUT RISKING IT ALL IN UKRAINE.
WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THAT MIGHT INCUR.
DO YOU THOSE WORRIES -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY MISPLACED.
PUT THE BRAKES ON AN EARLY DEPLOYMENT OF HELP FOR UKRAINE?
IS IT MATERIALLY -- DID IT HAVE A MATERIAL AFFECT?
I THINK IT DID.
I BELIEVE THAT WE WERE TOO TIMID IN THE BEGINNING.
I THINK THAT THERE ARE STILL VERY SPECIFIC THINGS, SUCH AS PROVIDING RELATIVELY HIGH END FIGHTER AND ATTACK AIRCRAFT, MIG 29s, THAT THE POLES OFFERED AGO JUMPED ON THAT.
A THEATER OF WAR, APART FROM THE LAND, IS THE BLACK SEA AND THE CHOKEHOLD WE ARE ALLOWING VLADIMIR PUTIN TO PLACE ON THE ECONOMY OF UKRAINE AND ON GRAIN THAT THE WORLD BADLY NEEDS.
YES, YOU ARE RIGHT.
NATO WAS, IN MY VIEW, TOO TIM ITIMID.
BOO BUCHA HAD A CLARIFYING AFFECT ON THAT.
FINLAND AND SWEDEN ARE APPLYING FOR MEMBERSHIP IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE ALLIANCE NOT ONLY HOLDING TOGETHER BUT ATTRACTING, IF YOU WILL, NEW RECRUITS.
THOSE ARE CAPABLE MILITARIES.
THAT GOES A LONG WAY FOR NATO AND THIS EFFORT.
TO MAKE A POINT ON THAT.
I COMMANDED FININISH AND SWEDIS TROOPS.
THEY ARE SUPERB, GREAT HEARTS.
THEY WILL BE FINE ADDITIONS TO NATO.
IN TERMS OF GETTING THE RIGHT WEAPONS AT THE RIGHT TIME, IT'S A HUGE ARTILLERY FIGHT NOW IN THE EAST.
THE RUSSIANS HAVE A BIG ADVANTAGE IN THAT DOMAIN.
NATO, THE UNITED STATES HAS PLEDGED 90 HOWITZERS THAT ARE STARTING TO BE USED.
ARE THEY THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECES TO DEPLOY RIGHT NOW?
I THINK THEY ARE.
BECAUSE OF THEIR MOBILITY.
THESE ARE SELF-PROPELLED.
THEY CAN DRIVE AROUND WITHOUT BEING TOWED TO AND FROM.
THESE ARE CRITICAL.
THEY ALLOW REAL MOBILITY ON THAT BATTLEFIELD.
WE CAN GET MORE OF THEM IN PLACE.
BY THE WAY, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FINLAND.
THE FINNS HAVE MORE ARTILLERY THAN ANY OTHER ARMY IN EUROPE.
SEE PARAGRAPH ONE ABOUT WHY FINLAND WILL BE A GOOD ADDITION TO THIS EFFORT.
IT'S REALLY NOT ANY SINGLE WEAPON.
IT'S THE FLOW OF ALL OF THIS COUPLED WITH INTELLIGENCE, CYBERSECURITY OVERWATCH, WHICH HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE.
AMMUNITION TO RESUPPLY THE WEAPON SYSTEMS WE GIVE.
MAINTENANCE.
WE CAN USE THE SYSTEM YOU AND I ARE USING RIGHT NOW, GO OVER THE INTERNET, USE ZOOM TO TEACH, TO HELP MAINTAIN THESE SYSTEMS.
WE ARE USING ALL OF THOSE TECHNOLOGIES.
I THINK THAT THE WEIGHT OF THIS IS STILL ON THE SIDE OF THE UKRAINIANS DESPITE SOME ADVANCES FROM THE RUSSIANS.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.
IT IS SAID FROM THE OOH CREPIA -- UKRAINIANS AND OTHERS THAT A KEY TOWN MAY FALL.
IT IS SAID THE RUSSIANS WANT TO GET UP FAR UP.
THEY PRETTY MUCH HAVE MARIUPOL.
THAT'S A LOT OF TERRITORY.
WHAT DO YOU THINK VLADIMIR PUTIN'S BEST SHOT IS RIGHT NOW?
CONVERSELY, WHAT SHOULD THE UKRAINIANS DO?
ZELENSKYY WANTS TO LOCK AT PUTIN IN THE EYES, LOOK EACH OTHER IN THE EYES AND DISCUSS THIS.
WHERE DOES THE SPACE FOR NO NEGOTIATION EMERGE?
IT'S A LOT OF TERRITORY.
LIFE IS COMPARED TO WHAT?
90 DAYS AGO, MANY THOUGHT THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN WOULD BE IN CONTROL OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, COMFORTABLY BY NOW.
I WOULD SAY, PLAN A, WHICH WAS TO DOMINATE THIS VAST NATION, HAS FAILED AND FAILED COMPLETELY.
THAT'S WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THE UKRAINIANS ARE DOING QUITE WELL.
ON THE OTHER HAND, RUSSIA HAS CARVED OUT THIS LAND BRIDGE THAT THEY HAVE COVETED FOR MANY YEARS STRETCHING FROM MOTHER RUSSIA THROUGH MARIUPOL, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY DUST BY NOW, DOWN TO CRY M CRI CRIMEA.
HE WILL CONSOLIDATE AND GRIND OUT MORE.
THAT'S THE POINT WHERE WE DISCOVER OR HE DISCOVERS WAR IS NOT ONLY HELL, IT'S ALSO EXPENSIVE.
PUTIN WILL LOOK FOR A NEGOTIATION AS THE YEAR DRAWNS O -- DRAWS ON.
OUR JOB IS TO GIVE THEM WEAPONS TO HOLD THE RUSSIANS.
GIVEN WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THERE WAS A HUGE HULLABALOO BY KESSINGER THAT SUGGESTED THAT THE UKRAINIANS SHOULD ACCEPT STATUS QUO.
GO BACK TO THE LAY OF THE LAND ON FEBRUARY 23rd WITH THE RUSSIANS HAVING CRIMEA AND THAT PART OF THE DONBAS REGION.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S AN ACHIEVEMENT -- WELL, DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD WORK FROM EITHER SIDE?
WOULD THEY ACCEPT THAT?
I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT HISTORY AND LOOK FOR EXAMPLE AT THE FIN DINISH RUSSIAN WAR, THE SOVIET ARMY INVADES.
THEY NEGOTIATE AN AGREEMENT.
TERRITORY EXCHANGES HANDS.
HISTORY TELLS US, THERE WILL BE A DEAL NEERNGITHER SIDE LOVES.
IT WILL STOP THE KILLING AND THE K END OF THIS.
WE NEED TO GIVE THEM THE TOOLS SO THEY HAVE THE OPTIONS AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE THAT FIT WITH THEIR GOALS AND DESIRES.
ONE LAST POINT.
WE HAVE A MINUTE OR SO LEFT.
ON YOUR BOOK, THE IDEA OF RISK, WE DISCUSSED IT A LITTLE BIT.
HOW DOES THIS APPLY TO PUTIN AND ZELENSKYY?
MY BOOK 'TO RISK IT ALL,' YOU SEE PUTIN, THE DARK SIDE OF RISK, RECKLESS, UNCERTAIN IN HIS OWN HEART.
NO GROUNDING IN MORAL RIGHT.
ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU SEE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WHO LOOKS OVER HIS SHOULDER FROM THE FRONT LINES OF THE WAR AND BEHIND HIM HE SEES HIS WIFE, HIS CHILDREN, HIS ELDERS, HIS CITIES, HIS CIVILIZATION, HIS LANGUAGE.
HE IS RISKING IT ALL FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS.
I THINK THE TWO OF THEM ARE A PRETTY GOOD POINT, COUNTERPOINT TO WHAT THE BOOK IS ABOUT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
APPRECIATE IT.
ALWAYS A PLEASURE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.
> AS AMERICA GRIEVES FOR YET MORE VICTIMS OF GUN VIOLENCE, WE REMEMBER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD TWO YEARS AGO.
THAT SPARKED A MOVEMENT.
A GLOBAL RECKONING ON POLICE BRUTALITY AND RACIAL INJUSTICE.
PRESIDENT BIDEN IS SET TO MARK THE DATE WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER ON POLICE REFORM.
OUR NEXT GUEST HAS CO-WRITTEN A NEW BIOGRAPHY.
HE TELLS US HOW FLOYD'S STORY REPRESENTS A TROUBLING AND P PURERVASIVE TRUTH ABOUT THE UNID STATES.
THANK YOU.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
YOU START THIS POWERFUL BIOGRAPHY WITH JUST THREE POWERFUL WORDS THAT GET REPEATED.
I LOVE YOU.
I LOVE YOU.
TELL ME WHY YOU BEGAN WITH THAT.
WE SPOKE TO MORE THAN 400 PEOPLE AND INTERVIEWING FOLKS FOR THIS BOOK.
SEVERAL OF THEM KNEW GEORGE FLOYD DIRECTLY.
SO MANY OF THEM USED THOSE WORDS WHETH WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW GEORGE WOULD TALK TO THEM.
PEOPLE KNEW HIM WELL.
PEOPLE WHO JUST SAW HIM IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
PEOPLE WHO KNEW HIM FROM A LONG TIME AGO.
THEY SAID HE WOULD SAY, I LOVE YOU, TO THEM.
A LOT SAID THEY CAN'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING ABOUT THE LAST CONVERSATION THEY HAD, BUT THEY KNOW FOR SURE THAT THE LAST WORDS THAT HE SAID WERE, I LOVE YOU.
IN A PLACE LIKE THE PLACE WHERE GEORGE FLOYD GREW UP, IT WAS NOT COMMON FOR A BIG, MUSCULAR GUY TO GO AROUND SAYING I LOVE YOU, ESPECIALLY TO OTHER BIG, MUSCULAR GUYS.
FLOYD WAS LIKE THAT.
HE WAS DIFFERENT.
HE WAS SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO SHOW LOVE AND WANTED TO SHOW POSITIVITY IN HIS COMMUNITY, EVEN AS HE SUFFERED FROM A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CHALLENGES, WHICH WE GET INTO IN THE BOOK.
HE HAD THAT OPTIMISTIC, BRIGHT SPIRIT.
WE ALSO KNOW TRAGICALLY ON THE VIDEO, AS HE WAS BEING KILLED, HE YELLED, I LOVE YOU A COUPLE OF TIMES.
HE YELLED I LOVE YOU TO HIS MOTHER, HIS FRIEND.
HE SAID HIS CHILDREN SHOULD KNOW HE LOVED THEM.
THOSE WERE SOME OF HIS FINAL WORDS.
WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO, AS WE FOCUS ON NOT ONLY HIS DEATH BUT HIS LIFE, TO USE THOSE WORDS.
WE KNOW HIM AS GEORGE FLOYD.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE KNOW HIM FROM THE NINE MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS THAT HAPPENED TWO YEARS AGO.
IN YOUR BOOK, HE IS CALLED PERRY BY A LOT OF PEOPLE.
YOU TALKED TO HIS SECOND GRADE TEACHER.
YOU TALKED TO PEOPLE THAT USE HIS MIDDLE NAME.
TELL ME WHAT HE WAS LIKE GROWING UP.
TELL ME WHAT YOU LEARNED BY TALKING TO HIS TEACHERS.
EVERYONE BACK IN HOUSTON KNEW HIM AS PERRY WHEN HE WAS A KID.
HE WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS QUIET.
HE DIDN'T KNOW VERY MUCH PEOPLE IN THE HOUSING PROJECT WHERE HE WAS RAISED.
HE WAS ALSO SOMEBODY THAT AMBITIONS AND HAD DREAMS.
WE TALKED TO HIS SECOND GRADE TEACHER AND LEARNED THAT EVEN THOUGH HE CAME FROM AN IMPOVERISHED BACKGROUND AND IN A SCHOOL SEGREGATE AND UNDERFUNDED, HE WAS HITTING ALL OF HIS NATIONAL BENCH MMARKS.
HE WANTED TO BE A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.
HE WROTE IN AN ESSAY THAT EVEN AS HE SAW THAT THURGOOD MARSHALL WAS THE FIRST BLACK SUPREME COURT JUSTICE, HE SAW HIMSELF JOINING THE SUPREME COURT.
AS HE GREW UP, WE SAW HOW HIS DREAMS WERE DERAILED BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEMS HE WAS INVOLVED IN IN TRYING TO NAVIGATE FROM THE HOUSING SYSTEM TO THE EDUCATION SYSTEM TO EVENTUALLY THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT INTERSECTED WITH HIS LIFE.
WE SAW HE HAD DREAMS AT ONE POINT.
BEING POOR AND BLACK IN AMERICA, IT WAS MORE DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO ACHIEVE THOSE DREAMS THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE.
WE SAW AND DOCUMENT IN THE BOOK HOW HE STRUGGLED AND STRIVED AND REALLY HAD TROUBLE ACHIEVING THOSE DREAMS AND SAW THOSE DREAMS DIMINISH OVER HIS LIFE.
WE TALK ABOUT RACISM IN THE ABSTRACT A LOT.
CERTAINLY IN THE PAST TWO YEARS, SINCE GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, WE HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM.
ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT YOUR BOOK IS THAT IT PERSONALIZES, IT MAKES YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE A PERSON IN GEORGE FLOYD'S SHOES.
TELL ME HOW FROM THE EARLY ON, THE RACISM THAT SORT OF INTERWOVEN WITH GEORGE FLOYD'S LIFE.
YOU KNOW THE POWER OF A SINGLE PERSON'S STORY.
WE WANTED TO SHOW THESE THINGS THAT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THROUGH THE REAL HUMAN IMPACT IT HAD ON GEORGE FLOYD.
WE STARTED THIS STORY GOING BACK MORE THAN 200 YEARS INTO GEORGE FLOYD'S ANCESTRY.
WE FOUND OUT HOW RACISM IMPACTED HIS RACISMS.
HIS GRAEAT, GREAT GRANDFATHER WS ENSLAVED.
HE WAS ABLE TO AMASS 500 ACRES OF LAND.
THAT MADE HIM ONE OF THE MOST WEALTHY PEOPLE IN HIS COMMUNITY IN NORTH CAROLINA.
ALL OF THAT LAND WAS STRIPPED AWAY FROM HIM AND TAKEN BY FRAUDULENT TAX SCREAENT TCHEMES.
AS THE RESULT, SEVERAL GENERATIONS BEFORE GEORGE FLOYD WERE MARKED BY GENERATIONAL POVERTY.
THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM THAT.
HE CAME INTO THE WORLD POOR.
IT IMPACTED HIM BEFORE HE WAS BORN.
AFTER HE WAS BORN, HE LIVED IN GOVERNMENT HOUSING THAT WAS UNDERFUNDED AND SEGREGATED, WHICH WAS PREDOMINANTLY BLACK AND CRUMBLING AND UNDERFUNDED.
THAT WAS A DIFFICULT PLACE TO GROW UP.
THERE WAS CRIME.
DRUGS.
IT WAS A TOUGH PLACE TO GROW UP BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HADN'T MAINTAINED IT THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BECAUSE IT WAS AN ALL BLACK COMMUNITY.
YOU TALK ABOUT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM WHICH WAS ALSO SEGREGATED AND WHICH DID NOT PROVIDE GEORGE FLOYD WITH THE EDUCATION THAT HE MIGHT NEED TO BE ABLE TO ESCAPE HIS CIRCUMSTANCES.
INSTEAD, HE WAS FUNNELED INTO THE IDEA THAT CHASING SPORTS WAS THE ONLY WAY OUT.
SCHOOLS WERE UNDERFUNDED.
THE MATERIALS WERE ALL HAND ME DOWN MATERIALS AND CRUMBLING.
SOME OF THE TEACHERS WERE NOT WELL TRAINED.
AS A RESULT, GEORGE FLOYD DID NOT GET THE EDUCATION THAT HE WOULD HAVE NEEDED IN ORDER TO ACH ACHIEVE HIS DREAMS OF HAVING A NORMAL LIFE AS A PROFESSIONAL.
AS WE SAW, WE SAW HIS SPORTS DREAMS FALL APART.
HE ENTERED INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.
HE WAS TARGETED FOR PETTY DRUG ARRESTS AND NON-VIOLENT CRIMES.
HE ENDED UP CYCLING THROUGH THAT SYSTEM FOR SEVERALYEARS.
WE DOCUMENT HOW IT MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO MAKE A LIVING AND SURVIVE AS SOMEONE TRYING TO COME UP IN THIRD WARD HOUSTON.
WE DOCUMENT HOW IT IMPACTED ONE PERSON BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SHOW HOW SOMEBODY WHO RECEIVED SOME LEVEL OF EMPATHY WAS EXPERIENCING THE PRESSURES OF SYSTEMIC RACISM LONG BEFORE HE FELL UNDER THE KNEE OF A POLICE OFFICER.
HIS MOTHER SUMMED UP WHAT YOU SAID BY SAYING, YOU ARE BORN WITH TWO STRIKES AGAINST YOU.
YOU EXPLAIN HER OUTLOOK AND WHAT SHE MEANT BY THAT.
GEORGE FLOYD'S MOTHER GREW UP ON A TOBACCO FARM IN NORTH CAROLINA WORKING WITH HER SHARECROPPER PARENTS.
SHE REALIZED THAT AS THEY WERE CHEATED OUT OF THEIR WAGES, WERE NOT ABLE TO AMASS WEALTH, BECAUSE THEY WERE LIVING HAND TO MOUTH, AS THEY STRUGGLED, THEY KNEW THAT THERE WAS A LEVEL OF UNFAIRNESS IN THE SYSTEM THEY WERE OPERATING IN.
SHE KNEW HER CHILDREN WERE ALSO GOING TO BE OPERATING IN THAT SAME SYSTEM.
THEY WERE POOR AND BLACK.
BECAUSE OF THAT, SHE SAID THEY HAD TWO STRIKES AGAINST THEM IN THE SYSTEM.
THEY NEEDED TO BE VERY CAREFUL, BECAUSE ONE MORE STRIKE AND THEY WOULD BE OUT.
SHE TOLD THEM THAT THEY NEEDED TO NEVER MAKE MISTAKES, TRY TO FOCUS ON SCHOOLING, TRY TO SPEAK THE KING'S ENGLISH AND NEVER ALLOW ANYONE TO THINK THEY WEREN'T SMART.
SHE PASSED THAT MESSAGE DOWN TO THEM.
EVEN AS THEY RECEIVED IT, THEY WERE SUFFERING UNDER RACISM WHERE IT BECAME VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT OUT.
THAT MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR GEORGE FLOYD TO KEY INTO THE IDEA OF THE AMERICAN DREAM, IF YOU WORK HARD, IF YOU STUDY, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO WORK OUT WELL, BECAUSE HE SAW EVEN AS HIS ANCESTORS WORKED HARD AND PLAYED BY THE RULES, THEY WERE CHEATED OUT OF WAGES AND NOT ABLE TO BUILD ANY AMERICAN DREAM FOR THEMSELVES.
HE DIED TWO YEARS AGO IN A POLICE ENCOUNTER.
TELL ME HOW MUCH HE FEARED POLICE ENCOUNTERS THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE.
WE WERE ABLE TO DOCUMENT THAT GEORGE FLOYD WAS DETAINED BY POLICE AT LEAST 20 TIMES OVER HIS LIFE.
SOME OF THE POLICE REPORTS, HE WAS DETAINED FOR SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS WALKING THROUGH HIS OWN NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE POLICE WROTE, QUOTE, HE DID NOT LOOK LIKE HE WAS GOING ANYWHERE IN PARTICULAR.
WE DOCUMENTED THAT AT LEAST SIX OF THE OFFICERS THAT DETAINED HIM WERE CHARGED WITH CRIMES OF THEIR OWN.
THERE WAS A HISTORY OF POLICE CORRUPTION.
HE WAS A VICTIM IN SOME WAYS OF THAT CORRUPTION.
EVEN AS HE ADMITTED TO SOME OF THE CRIMES THAT HE LATER PLED GUILTY TO, HE MEAINTAINED HIS INNOCENCE FOR OTHER CRIMES.
HE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN JAIL BECAUSE HE FELT LIKE THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM WOULD NOT BE FAIR TO HIM.
HEED CLAUSTROPHOBIA.
HE HAD DEPRESSION, ANXIETY.
HE RECEIVED NO TREATMENT WHILE HE WAS IN PRISON.
HIS SUBSTANCE USE ISSUES GOT WORSE.
HIS CLAUSTROPHOBIA GOT WORSE.
THAT'S WHY WHEN THE POLICE OFFICERS TRIED TO ARREST HIM, HE WAS TELLING THEM, I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE IN THIS SYSTEM GOING IN THE BACK OF YOUR POLICE CAR, WHY HE WAS TERRIFIED.
WE WERE ABLE TO DOCUMENT THAT.
THAT WAS TRUE THAT HE FELT THAT DEEP, INTENSE LEVEL OF CLAUSTROPHOBIA AND FEE BECAUSE OF OF HIS EXPERIENCE WITH POLICE.
HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH HIS AGENCY IN THIS STORY AS WELL AS WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?
ROBERT SAMUELS AND I ARE JOURNALISTS.
WE HAPPEN TO BE BLACK MEN WHO HAVE A LEVEL OF EMPATHY M.
OUR MISSION IS THE CRAFT OF BIOGRAPHY AND TELL THE FULL STORY.
GEORGE FLOYD AS HIS FRIENDS TOLD US, DID NOT HIDE AWAY FROM HIS SHORTCOMINGS, HIS FLAWS.
IN HIS WORDS AND IN HIS DIARY ENTRIES.
HE ACKNOWLEDGED THEM.
WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT WE ACKNOWLEDGED THEM AND WRITE THEM TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE TRUTH.
THAT INCLUDED COVERING SOME OF HIS DARK MOMENTS.
THE DARK MOMENTS HE ACKNOWLEDGED BY TELLING HIS FRIENDS, I'M IN THE DARK, I NEED HELP TO GET TO THE LIGHT.
SOME OF THE DARK MOMENTS INCLUDE ADDICTION, SOME OF THOSE INCLUDE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, SOME INCLUDE DRUG USE.
THE SALE OF DRUGS.
WE DOCUMENT THAT IN THE BOOK IN PART BECAUSE IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR US TO TELL HIS FULL STORY, INCLUDING THE STORY OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN PART OF HIS CRIMINAL HIS HISTORY, HIS GUILTY PLEA FOR AN ARMED ROBBERY IN WHICH WE DOCUMENT WHAT HAPPENED, INCLUDING WITH AN INTERVIEW WITH THE VICTIM.
WE HOPE PEOPLE READ THE BOOK.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY IF YOU WRITE ABOUT GEORGE FLOYD, YOU ARE WRITING TO LIONIZE HIM AND COVER UP ANY OF THE UNSAVORY THINGS.
WE DID NOT DO THAT.
WE TOLD HIS FULLY STORY.
WE TOLD IT WITH CONTEXT.
WE TOLD IT IN A WAY THAT DID NOT HIDE AWAY ANY OF THE THINGS HE DID, THAT HE KNEW WAS WRONG.
WHAT DREW HIM TO MINNESOTA?
HE REALIZED THAT AS A FORMER FELON, WITH A CRIMINAL RECORD IN TEXAS, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO GTETA JOB.
HE REALIZED HE WANTED TO BE A PROVIDER.
IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO FIND A JOB BECAUSE HE HAD A RECORD IN TEXAS.
HE NEEDED TREATMENT.
HE REALIZED HE HAD A SUBSTANCE USE ISSUE.
TEXAS HAD NOT EXPANDED MEDICAID.
IT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND TREATMENT HE NEEDED.
HE CONNECTED WITH A PASTOR IN TEXAS.
THAT PASTOR LET HIM KNOW ABOUT A PROGRAM IN MINNESOTA WHERE HE COULD GET HIS LIFE TOGETHER, GET REHABILITATION, HELP HIM FIND A JOB.
HE REALIZED HE NEEDED TO RESET HIS LIFE.
HE LEFT THE COMMUNITY HE KNEW, AND HE PICKED UP IN 2017 AND MOVED TO MINNEAPOLIS.
NOT REALLY HAVING FAMILY THERE.
BUT KNOWING HE NEEDED TO MAKE A CHANGE.
HE HAD THIS MOMENT WHERE THINGS WERE GOING WELL.
UNFORTUNATELY, THINGS WENT -- TURNED SOUR REALLY QUICKLY FOR HIM WHEN HIS ROOMMATE DIED OF AN OVERDOSE AND A FEW MONTHS LATER HIS MOTHER DIED.
PEOPLE WHO WE SPOKE TO SAID HE WAS BROKEN BY THAT TRAGIC SET OF EVENTS.
IT MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO STAY ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW PATH.
HE FELL BACK INTO ADDICTION AND STRUGGLED UP UNTIL THE MOMENT OF HIS DEATH.
AS A BIOGRAPHER, I WAS DEEPLY IMPRESSED HOW YOU FOUND SUCH A TREASURE TROVE OF WRITTEN MATERIAL.
HIS DIARIES, THINGS HE SAID.
I THINK EVEN I SAW RAP LYRICS HE WAS TRYING TO WRITE.
TELL ME ABOUT THOSE WRITINGS OF GEORGE FLOYD AND HOW THEY INFORMED YOUR STORY.
YEAH.
THERE'S A MOMENT -- A SCENE IN THE BOOK WHERE FLOYD IS HAVING THIS TIME IN HIS LIFE WHERE HE IS FREESTYLING IN GOING TO A RAP STUDIO.
I HAVE BEEN BROKE SO LONG.
I HAVE BEEN IF LAST PLACE SO LONG.
I'M LOAD FOR POTENTIAL AND I NEED TO GET MY ACT TOGETHER AND START ACTING LIKE A GROWN MAN.
IT SHOWED HOW HE WAS SUFFERING WITH THE FACTS HIS DREAMS HAD BEEN DIMINISHED, INCLUDING HIS STATEMENT AS A CHILD HE WANTED TO TOUCH THE WORLD.
HE REALIZED HE WAS NOT REACHING THOSE DREAMS.
HE WANTED TO PUT IT DOWN IN HIS LYRICS THAT HE WAS MORE THAN THE STEREOTYPE PEOPLE PUT ON HIM.
AFTER HIS DEATH, PRESIDENT BIDEN TOLD HIS FAMILY THAT THERE WOULD BE GOOD THAT WOULD COME OUT OF IT, HE WOULD HELP CHANGE AMERICA.
YOU SPOKE TO PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR THIS BOOK.
TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK THINGS HAVE CHANGED OVER THE PAST YEAR BECAUSE OF HIS DEATH, AND HAVE THEY IMPROVED OR HAS IT GOTTEN MORE POLARIZED?
PRESIDENT BIDEN IN SOME WAYS OWES HIS PRESIDENCY TO THE COALITION OF PEOPLE WHO CAME OUT TO PROTEST AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH.
YOU HAD BLACK VOTERS THAT WERE ANIMATED.
HAD YOU WHITE SUBURBAN PEOPLE ANIMATED AND DECIDED THEY WANTED A CHANGE AT THE TOP LEVEL OF OUR GOVERNMENT.
HE PROMISED THE FAMILY THAT THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
HE PROMISED VOTERS HE WOULD BE A CHANGE MAKER, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COPS TO ISSUES LIKE POLICE REFORM AND RACIAL JUSTICE.
I DON'T WANT TO DOWNPLAY HIS RECORD.
THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT HAVE CHANGED.
WE HAVE THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN TO BE VICE PRESIDENT.
WE HAVE A SUPREME COURT NOMINEE WHO WILL JOIN THE COURT WHO IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN AND REPRESENTATION ACROSS OUR SOCIETY HAS CHANGED.
WE HAVE CORPORATIONS AND DIFFERENT CULTURAL INSTITUTIONS REALIZING THAT MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE ON DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE NOT SATISFIED WITH HOW MUCH POLITICAL PROGRESS WE HAVE HAD SINCE GEORGE FLOYD DIED.
THERE'S A BACKLASH WITH PEOPLE SAYING, WE SHOULD NOT TEACH HISTORY.
WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THE KILLER IN BUFFALO DECIDING THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE TAKING UP TOO MUCH SPACE AND THEY NEED TO BE ELIMINATED.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN FITS AND STARTS.
PROGRESS IS NEVER A STRAIGHT LINE.
THE KIND OF BROAD RACIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT THAT WE THOUGHT MIGHT RESULT FROM GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH, WITH MAJOR CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION AND OTHER CHANGES, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT.
WE HAVE SEEN CHANGES ON A LOCAL LEVEL.
WE HAVE SEEN AN ONGOING STRUGGLE WITH ACTIVISTS WHO HOPE IN THE FUTURE THERE WILL BE BALTIMORE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TAKING PLACE.
I SAW ALL THE THINGS YOU TALKED ABOUT, HIS MOTHER, HIS ROOMMATE'S OVERDOSE, HOW IT ALL HAPPENED.
LIKE ALL BIOGRAPHY, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT SOMETHING LARGER.
TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK HIS LIFE REPRESENTS SOMETHING LARGER, ESPECIALLY ABOUT BLACK MEN IN AMERICAN SOCIETY?
THIS IS AN AMERICAN STORY.
GEORGE FLOYD IS AN AMERICAN.
HIS FAMILY HAS A LONG HISTORY OF, AMERICANS.
WE OWE IT TO HIM TO REFLECT ON THAT.
WHILE HIS DEATH WAS HEINOUS, HIS LIFE ALSO WAS SOMETHING THAT'S WORTHY OF LOOKING AT AND ANALYZING.
WE WANTED TO SHINE A LIGHT ON THAT VERSION OF GEORGE FLOYD'S AMERICA.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU.
> FINALLY TONIGHT, AMID THIS CATASTROPHE FOR THE UNITED STATES, WE LEAVE YOU THESE POWERFUL WORDS FROM STEVE KERR SHORTLY AFTER THAT MASSACRE IN TEXAS.
A FORMER CHICAGO BULLS PLAYER, KERR IS A LONGTIME ADVOCATE OF GUN CONTROL.
HIS OWN FATHER WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN A TERRORIST ATTACK IN BEIRUT IN 1984.
INSTEAD OF SPEAKING ABOUT HIS NBA PLAYOFF GAME, HE USED HIS PLATFORM TO VOICE THIS HARSH REBUKE OF AMERICAN POLITICS.
IN THE LAST TEN DAYS, WE HAVE HAD ELDERLY BLACK PEOPLE KILLED IN A SUPERMARKET IN BUFFALO.
WE VERY HADS ASIAN CHURCH GOERS KILLED IN SOUTH EARN CALIFORNIA.
WE HAVE CHILDREN MURDERED AT SCHOOL.
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO DO SOMETHING!
I'M TIRED.
I'M SO TIRED OF GETTING UP HERE AND OFFERING CONDOLENCES TO THE DEVASTATED FAMILIES THAT ARE OUT THERE.
I'M SO TIRED OF THE -- I'M SORRY.
I'M TIRED OF THE MOMENTS OF SILENCE.
ENOUGH!
I'M FED UP.
I'VE HAD ENOUGH.
WE'RE GOING TO PLAY THE GAME TONIGHT.
BUT I WANT EVERY PERSON HERE, EVERY PERSON LISTENING TO THIS TO THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN CHILD OR GRANDCHILD OR MOTHER OR FATHER OR SISTER OR BROTHER.
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THIS HAPPENED TO YOU TODAY?
WE CAN'T GET NUMB TO THIS.
DO YOU REALIZE THAT 90% OF AMERICANS, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL PARTY, WANT BACKGROUND CHECK, UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK?
WE ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY 50 SENATORS IN WASHINGTON WHO REFUSE TO EVEN PUT IT TO A VOTE DESPITE WHAT WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.
THEY WON'T VOTE ON IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HOLD ON TO THEIR OWN POWER!
IT'S PATHETIC!
I'VE HAD ENOUGH!
AFTERWARDS, ONE OF KERR'S PLAYERS ADDED THAT IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW, QUOTE, IT'S EASIER TO GET A GUN THAN BABY FORMULA.
> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
REMEMBER, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & CO.' ON PBS.
JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
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