June 23, 2022

TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

> INSIDE EACH OF THESE BODY BAGS IS A JOHN DOE, REMAINS LEFT IN THE RUINS OF WAR FOR WEEKS THAT ARE TOO DECOMPOSED TO BE RECOGNIZED.

> CORRESPONDENT REPORTS ON THE AGONY OF THE FAMILIES OF UKRAINE'S UNIDENTIFIED WAR DEAD.

> THEN, THE SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK'S HAND GUN LAW.

I SPEAK TO SUPREME COURT WATCHERS ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE RULING ON GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

> THEN.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR REPUBLICANS TO SAY ENOUGH, AND TAKE A STAND.

FORMER MIKE PENCE EMPLOYEE SPEAKS TO OLIVIA MARTIN AND CHANNELS REPUBLICANS TO DO THEIR DUTY.

> ALSO, IN AFGHANISTAN, A CRISIS-HIT COUNTRY REELS FROM A DEVASTATING EARTHQUAKE.

I SPEAK TO THE NEW U.N.

REPRESENTATIVE THERE.

> AND FINALLY.

♪ A SPOON FULL OF SUGAR HELPS THE MEDICINE GO DOWN ♪

JUST A SPOONFUL OF ISSUE GR, WE LOOK BACK AT THE CONVERSATION WITH JULIE ANDREWS, WINNER OF THE FILM INSTITUTE LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANA.

THE DIPLOMATIC FUTURE OF UKRAINE IS UP FOR DEBATE IN BRUSSELS TODAY.

THE EUROPEAN UNION LIKELY TO APPROVE THE COUNTRY AS A CANDIDATE FOR MEMBERSHIP.

IT WOULD BE A MAJOR WIN AND COULD HELP BUOY THE MORALE AS THE BATTLE IN THE EAST REACHES A CLIMAX.

UKRAINE MAY BE ENDURING ITS WORST WEEK SINCE THE FALL OF MARIUPOL.

RUSSIAN FORCES SEEM TO BE COORDINATING AIR AND GROUND ATTACKS AS THEY TIGHTEN THE NOOSE AROUND THE CRITICAL EASTERN CITY THE.

UKRAINIAN TROOPS ARE STILL DESPERATE FOR WEAPONS AS THEY TAKE INCREASINGLY HEAVY CASUALTIES IF FAMILIES OF THOSE KILLED ARE WAITING FOR THE BODIES OF THEIR LOVED ONES TO BE IDENTIFIED.

PLEASE BE ADD VOOZED, THIS REPORT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO WATCH.

Reporter: INSIDE EACH OF THESE BODY BAGS IS A JOHN DOE, REMAINS LEFT IN THE RUINS OF WAR FOR WEEKS THAT ARE TOO DECOMPOSED TO BE RECOGNIZED.

BUT AMONG THEM MAY BE THIS MAN, DANIEL SOFONOF, THE 28-YEAR-OLD POLICEMAN WAS AMONG THE FIGHTERS BELIEVED TO BE KILLED IN MARIUPOL IN EARLY MAY.

HIS SISTER IS HERE TO TRY AND IDENTIFY HIS REMAINS.

Translator: THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT OF HIM TO RECOGNIZE, SHE TELLS ME.

FOR A MONTH AND A HALF, HIS BODY LAY IN THE HEAT.

THESE WERE PICTURES HE CARRIED WITH HIM FROM HIS SON.

THIS IS HOW SHE ID'd DANIEL, DRAWINGS FROM HIS SON TUCKED IN HIS POCKET AND SOMEHOW INTACT.

I PRAYED TO GOD EVERY DAY THAT I WOULD FIND HIM, SHE SAYS.

THE WEIGHT WAS UNBEARABLE.

I FEEL CALMER NOW THAT I CAN FINALLY BURY HIM.

HER RELIEF IS EXTREMELY RARE.

AUTHORITIES HAVE SET UP A HOT LINE SO FAMILIES CAN CALL IN, REPORT A MISSING PERSON, AND THEN THEY'RE ASKED TO GIVE A DNA SAMPLE AND HOPE FOR A MATCH.

INSIDE THE MORGUE, THE COMPLEX PROCESS BEGINS.

TISSUE IS EXTRACTED FROM THE DECEASED.

A PIECE OF BONE IS SOMETIMES THE ONLY OPTION.

THE SAMPLE IS SENT TO A LAB.

OF THE NEARLY 700 UNIDENTIFIED SO FAR CATALOGED, ABOUT 200 HAVE BEEN PAIRED TO THEIR FAMILIES ACCORDING TO OFFICIALS.

THE CHIEF FORENSIC EXPERT HERE IS BEHIND TENS OF THOSE MATCHES.

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE YOU TO FIND ONE MATCH?

IT DEPENDS ON HOW MANY DNA PROFILES WE HAVE IN THE DATA BASE.

THE MORE PROFILES WE HAVE, THE MORE MATCHES WE MAKE.

I GUESS IT WILL TAKE SOME YEARS OF THE WAR TO END TO FIND ALL THE UNIDENTIFIED HUMAN BODIES.

Reporter: BUT THERE ARE FAMILIES THAT WILL NEVER GET CLOSURE.

SOME DOIDS ARE TOO DAMAGED TO COLLECT SUFFICIENT DNA.

WE HAVE PARENTS WHO TELL US, I UNDERSTAND, YOU CANNOT FIND MY CHILD, BUT AT LEAST BRING ME SOME OF THE DIRT THEY WALKED ON FROM MARIUPOL TO BURY, SHE SAYS.

THE UNBEARABLE AGONY OF NEVER LAYING A LOVED ONE TO REST.

JUST A DEVASTATING IMPACT FROM WAR RIGHT THERE.

OUR THANKS TO SAL MA.

> ON THE U.S. DOMESTIC FRONT, A SUPREME COURT STRUCK DOWN A 100--YEAR-OLD LAW AGAINST CARRYING A CONCEALED MAND GUN OUTSIDE THE HOME.

IT SPLIT ALONG LINE AND COULD HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT ON GUN CONTROL MEASURES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

JOINING US NOW WITH THE LATEST DECISION, ARIANE.

WHAT WAS THE RATIONALE FOR THE COURT OR AT LEAST THE MAJORITY OF COURT THERE TO STRIKE DOWN A LAW THAT HAD BEEN IN PLACE FOR 100 YEARS?

RIGHT.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN A DECADE THAT THE COURT HAS EXPANDED GUN RIGHTS.

IT COMES AS WE'VE HAD THAT SPATE OF MASS SHOOTINGS.

AN ISSUE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WAS A NEW YORK LAW THAT PUT RESTRICTIONS ON WHETHER SOMEONE COULD CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON OUTSIDE THE HOME.

JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS STRUCK DOWN THAT LAW AND SAID BASICALLY THAT YOU CAN'T REQUIRE SOMEONE TO HAVE TO GIVE SOME SORT OF SPECIAL PURPOSE OR SPECIAL REASON FOR WANTING TO HAVE -- CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON.

THAT'S GOING TO IMPACT A HANDFUL OF LAW IN OTHER STATES.

WHAT CLARENCE THOMAS ALSO DID, WHICH IS MUCH BIGGER HERE, IS HE CHANGED THE WAY JUDGES GOING FORWARD ARE GOING TO EVALUATE GUN LAWS.

USUALLY IN THE PAST THEY TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE STATE'S COMPELLING OR IMPORTANT REASON TO PASS SUCH A LAW, AND CLARENCE THOMAS SAID THAT GOING FORWARD, INSTEAD THE COURTS SHOULD LOOK MUCH MORE CAREFULLY AT HISTORY, WHAT HISTORY WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF SUCH A REGULATION.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN WORRYING SUPPORTERS OF GUN REGULATIONS.

THEY WERE WORRIED HE WAS GOING TO ACT THAT WAY, AND THAT'S WHY THE LIBERALS WROTE SUCH A STRONG DECENT.

THEY SAID IF JUDGES ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY LOOK AT THE CASE, IT'S GOING TO OPEN UP CONSTITUTIONAL CHALLENGES FOR ALL SORTS OF GUN REGULATIONS LIKE ASSAULT WEAPONS, AGE RESTRICTIONS, ALL THAT NOW COULD GO BACK TO COURT.

SO IT COULD REALLY CHANGE THINGS FOR THE DECENTERS, STEVEN BREYER MAY BE WRITING ONE OF HIS LAST BIG DECENTS.

HE SAID THE COURT'S OPINION IS GOING TO HAVE DEADLY CONSEQUENCES BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT SEVERELY LIMITS STATES' ABILITY TO PASS REGULATIONS.

AND IN HIS DECENT, HE WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO MENTION THE RECENT SPATE OF GUN SHOOTING.

THAT'S HOW THIS CAME TOWN, AND OF COURSE IT COMES AS CONGRESS IS PREPARING THIS PACKAGE OF GUN REGULATIONS.

AND IF THOSE GO TO LEGAL CHALLENGES, THIS OPINION WILL BE CITED.

AND AS YOU NOTE, IT COULD IMPACT SIMILAR STATE LAWS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE.

THERE HAS BEEN HARSH REACTION AS TO BE EXPECTED FROM LAWMAKERS, DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

ONE OF THEIR MOST COMPELLING ARGUMENTS COMES FROM THOSE OFFICIALS IN NEW YORK CITY, THE MOST POP EWE LIST CITY IN THE STATE, WHICH REALLY DO ARGUE THAT THIS COULD INCREASE THE RATE OF CRIME THAT'S ALREADY GOING UP AND RISING IN THIS CITY WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE HAVING THE RIGHT TO CARRY GUNS IN POPULATED AREAS LIKE A SUBWAY OR TIMES SQUARE.

THAT'S WHAT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE JUSTICE THOMAS DID TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO RESPECT SENSITIVE PLACES, BUT IN ORAL ARGUMENTS, HE BROUGHT AN ENTIRE ATLAS TO KIND OF SHOW HOW BIG NEW YORK IS, AND HE SAID IN HIS OPINION TODAY, YOU CAN RESPECT SENSITIVE PLACES, BUT MAYBE THAT DOESN'T COVER THE ENTIRE ISLAND OF MANHATTAN.

SO YOU REALLY SAW THE LIBERALS HERE WORRIED ABOUT THE IMPACT ON THIS GOING FORWARD.

YOU HAD THE CONSERVATIVES TRYING TO SAY, WELL, WE WERE REALLY ONLY TRYING TO TARGET THIS PARTICULAR LAW.

BUT IT IS GOING TO HAVE A LASTING IMPACT, AND IT'S GOING TO OPEN UP ALL THESE NEW CHALLENGES IN THE LOWER COURTS.

THE BROOKLYN DA AARON GONZALEZ SAYING IT IS A NIGHTMARE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY NOW THAT THIS DECISION HAS BEEN HANDED DOWN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

> FOR MORE INSIGHT, LET'S GO TO STEVEN MAZY.

STEVEN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

IT WAS INTERESTING TO HEAR ELECTED OFFICIALS IN NEW YORK, PARTICULARLY THE GOVERNOR CALL THE ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING.

SHE MAY OPPOSE THIS RULING, BUT TO CALL IT SHOCKING IS NOT NECESSARILY IN LINE WITH THE DIRECTION WE KNEW THIS COURT WAS HEADED IN.

YES.

I DON'T THINK IT'S SHOCKING.

AFTER ATTENDING THE ORAL ARGUMENT LAST NOVEMBER, THERE WAS REALLY NO QUESTION THAT THE COURT WAS GOING TO STRIKE DOWN THIS NEW YORK LAW.

THE ONLY QUESTION WAS HOW FAR THEY WOULD GO AND WHAT APPROACH THEY WOULD USE TO EXPAND THE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT OUTSIDE THE HOME SO THAT PEOPLE CAN NOW HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY GUNS ON THE STREET.

SO WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE DECISION AND PARSING IT, SOME OF THE DETAILS AND HOW FAR THEY DID DECIDE TO GO?

SURE.

WELL, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THE COURT HAS REALLY TAKEN ON THE QUESTION OF WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT MEANS SINCE 2008 WHEN IT DECIDED FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT THERE IS AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO OWN A GUN.

UP UNTIL THEN, THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS REALLY A RELIC OF THE EARLY REPUBLIC.

IT WAS MORE ABOUT MILITIAS BEING ARMED RATHER THAN INDIVIDUALS.

SO THIS CASE REALLY GIVES CREDENCE TO THE IDEA THAT JUSTICE THOMAS, THE AUTHOR OF TODAY'S OPINION, HAS BEEN URGING FOR A VERY LONG TIME THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT A SECOND-CLASS RIGHT, THAT IT SHOULD BE TREATED WITH THE SAME RESPECT THAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE OTHER RIGHTS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS ENJOY.

IS THAT ARGUMENT --

AND --

DOES --

I'M SORRY?

I JUST WANTED TO PICK UP ON THAT BECAUSE JEFFREY TUBIN HAD NOTED THAT EARLIER ON THE NETWORK AS WELL.

I'M CURIOUS TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHETHER YOU THINK THAT ARGUMENT ACTUALLY HAS MERIT.

THERE IS MERIT TO THE ARGUMENT, I THINK, THAT THERE IS PROBABLY -- THAT THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS DOES EXTEND PROBABLY OUTSIDE THE HOME.

BUT THE EXTENT TO WHICH JUSTICE THOMAS' OPINION PUTS THIS IN THE REALM OF THE COURT DECIDING WHAT SORTS OF REGULATIONS SHOULD BE UPHELD AND WHICH ONES SHOULD NOT WHEREAS THE PERSPECTIVE FROM THE LIBERAL JUSTICES IS STATE LEGISLATURES SHOULD GET TO DECIDE THOSE THINGS.

IT REALLY IS -- MAYBE NOT A REVOLUTIONARY, BUT A VERY SIGNIFICANT EXPANSION OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT THAT'S GOING TO MAKE IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE STATES TO KNOW IF THE COURTS ARE GOING TO LET THEM GO FORWARD WITH GUN SAFETY LAWS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO PUT IN PLACE IN ORDER TO KEEP THEIR POPULATION SAFE.

AS WE HEARD FROM ARIANE, THIS PUTS IN JEOPARDY SIMILAR LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE IN OTHER SIMILAR STATES.

EXPLAIN WHAT THAT COULD MEAN AND SOME OF THE LAWSUITS WE COULD SEE GOING FORWARD NOW.

OKAY.

SO MOST OF THE COUNTRY IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS.

THERE ARE 25 STATES THAT ARE SO-CALLED CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY STATES WHERE YOU DON'T NEED EVEN A LICENSE TO HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY WEAPON.

REALLY, IT ONLY AFFECTS ABOUT SIX OR MAYBE SEVEN STATES.

THERE'S SOME DISPUTE ABOUT THAT, CALIFORNIA, MARYLAND, NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY, RHODE ISLAND, HAWAII, WHERE THE STATE HAS WANTED OFFICIALS TO HAVE SOME DISCRETION IN DECIDING WHO CAN CARRY A GUN AROUND IN A CONCEALED MANNER.

AND SO I THINK DIRECTLY ON THAT QUESTION, NOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME DISPUTE OVER WHAT COUNTS AS AN OBJECTIVE ENOUGH CRITERIAEN FOR A STATE TO USE WHEN IT DECIDES WHO GETS TO CARRY A GUN.

THERE'S A CONCURRING OPINION FROM JUSTICE BRETT CAVANAUGH AND THE CHIEF JUSTICE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, DON'T WORRY SO MUCH ABOUT THIS.

THERE'S GOING TO STILL BE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR STATES TO REGULATE GUNS IN WAYS THAT ARE OBJECTIVE THAT DON'T GIVE TOO MUCH DISCRETION TO ANY OFFICIAL.

BUT I THINK DOWN THE LINE, THE QUESTION IS GOING TO BE IF THE COURT CONTINUES ALONG THE LINE THAT JUSTICE THOMAS USES, LIKE ASKING JUST THE HISTORICAL QUESTION, RIGHT, IS THIS GUN REGULATION CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN REGULATION OF FIREARMS, THEN A HOST OF OTHER CHALLENGES TO LAWS THAT MAY NOT -- THAT MAY NOT BE AS PROTECTIVE OF THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS AS THE SIXTH JUSTICE MAJORITY OF THE COURT WANTS, THOSE ARE GOING TO BE IN SOME QUESTION.

AS FOR WHAT STATES CAN AND CAN'T DO IN RESPONSE, GOVERNOR HOCHUL SAID SHE WOULD DO EVERYTHING IN HER LEGISLATIVE POWER IN THE STATE.

WHAT EXACTLY CAN SHE DO?

IS THERE ANY AVENUE FOR RECOURSE HERE AT THIS POINT FOR AT LEAST THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO RESPOND TO THIS RULING?

WELL, I THINK -- I MEAN, THERE CAN STILL BE, AS THAT CONCURRENCE FROM CAVANAUGH AND ROBERTS MENTIONED, THERE CAN STILL BE PLENTY OF RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE OBJECTIVE ONES.

SO YOU MIGHT -- YOU MIGHT SAY THAT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO HAVE A CONCEAL CARRY PERMIT NEEDS TO HAVE TRAINING IN HOW TO USE FIREARMS AND MENTAL HEALTH CHECKS.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THIS RULING.

SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT GOVERNORS IN THESE SIX STATES CAN DO TO STILL REIGN IN A LITTLE BIT THE TYPES OF PEOPLE, THE INDIVIDUALS WHO CAN CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS.

WHAT IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE IS TO GIVE DISCRETION TO OFFICIALS TO THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DOES THIS PERSON REALLY HAVE A PROPER NEED, A PROPER CAUSE TO CARRY A GUN.

DO THEY HAVE A SPECIAL JUSTIFICATION?

DO THEY HAVE A SPECIAL FEAR OF VIOLENCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO GET THIS PERMIT?

THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE -- THAT'S NOT GOING TO FLY AFTER THIS.

WELL, AND THIS RULING DIDN'T COME DOWN IN A VACUUM.

IT'S HAPPENED AS A SPATE OF MASS SHOOTINGS LEAD TO A POINT WHERE DESPITE A BIPARTISANSHIP, WE ARE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES SEEING A REAL MOVEMENT AND A VERY LIKELY CHANCE THAT WE COULD SEE BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION ON AT LEAST SOME FORM OF GUN CONTROL IN LEGISLATION THERE.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE SORT OF DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE SUPREME COURT AND EVEN CONGRESS, NOT TO MENTION AVERAGE AMERICANS WHO FOR THE MOST PART IN LARGE PART SUPPORT COMMON SENSE GUN REFORM?

YES.

WELL, THERE'S AN UNUSUAL KIND OF DISPUTE IN THE OPINIONS ON THAT QUESTION.

THE FIRST EIGHT PAGE OF JUSTICE BREYER'S DECENT ARE KIND OF RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES DATA ABOUT HOW MANY GUNS AMERICANS HAVE, 400 MILLION GUNS AMONG 330 MILLION AMERICANS.

THE NUMBER OF GUN DEATHS, NEARLY 50,000 A YEAR.

AND JUSTICE ALITO AND HIS ANGRY CONCURRENT RESPONSE TO JUSTICE BREYER BY SAYING NONE OF THAT MATTERS.

THIS IS NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGAL QUESTIONS OF WHAT'S CONSTITUTIONAL AND WHAT'S NOT.

AND THIS REGULATION IN NEW YORK WOULDN'T HAVE STOPPED THE SHOOTING IN BUFFALO.

BUT REALLY THE QUESTION, THE REAL DIVIDE IN THE COURT AND IN THE COUNTRY AT THIS POINT IS THE EXTEND TO WHICH THE STATES SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY BASED ON THEIR OWN ASSESSMENTS OF WHAT'S NECESSARY TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM GUN VIOLENCE, WHAT SARTS OF REGULATIONS THEY CAN IMPOSE.

AND IT REMAINS UNCLEAR AT THIS POINT HOW -- YOU KNOW, WHAT THE EXTENT OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS RULING ARE GOING TO BE FOR OTHER GUN REGULATIONS.

I DON'T THINK ANYTHING IN BRUIN, IN THIS DECISION TODAY, CALLS INTO QUESTION THE PROVISIONS OF THE BIPARTISAN LAW, WHICH IS BEING WORKED ON IN CONGRESS.

SO I DON'T THINK THIS WILL START -- THIS WILL STOP LEGISLATURES IN THEIR TRACKS IN CONGRESS.

BUT IT'S JUST THE NEXT STEP OF THE VULTURING OF A SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT, THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHICH ARE UNCLEAR.

AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF A CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY ON THE COURT.

WE'RE SEEING THAT PLAY OUT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

> WELL, NOW TO THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS.

WE'VE HEARD POWERFUL TESTIMONIES FROM THOSE IMPACTED FROM THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, INCLUDING LAST THURSDAY WHEN INSURRECTIONISTS CALLED FOR THE HANGING OF MIKE PENCE.

ONE PERSON FOLLOWING CLOSELY IS OLIVIA TROY, SHE JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE PRESSURE THAT TRUMP PUT ON PENCE, THE DANGER TO HIS LIFE, AND WHAT THE GOP MUST DO TO MITIGATE DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

YOUR CAREER HAS BEEN DEVOTED TO COUNTERTERRORISM AND NATIONAL SECURITY.

I'M IMAGINING THAT YOUR KIND OF WORLD VIEW TRAINING IN THAT SPACE DIDN'T REALLY ENVISION AMERICAN CITIZENS ATTACKING THE CAPITOL WITH THE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT.

I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW YOU'RE PROCESSING THAT, AND ESPECIALLY NOW THAT YOU'RE RELIVING IT AGAIN THROUGH THESE HEARINGS.

IT'S BEEN HORRIFYING TO SEE THE FOOTAGE AND HEAR THE WORDS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE FOUND MY FORMER BOSS MIKE PENCE, THEY WOULD HAVE KILLED HIM.

THE FACT THAT THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE IN 48 STATES FROM THE SITTING VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTRY AND HIS STAFF AND FAMILY, AND ALSO JUST THE FOOTAGE -- AND THE COMMUNICATIONS THAT TOOK PLACE WITH THESE GROUPS, WHICH I THINK THE COMMITTEE IS STILL HOPEFULLY WILL BRING THAT FORWARD MORE TO FRUITION IS JUST THE EXTEND OF COORDINATIONS THAT HAPPENED BETWEEN A BRARCHL OF GOVERNMENT, A CITY, SKI PRESIDENT AND HIS PEOPLE WITH A GROUP OF EXTREMIST GRIPE GROUPS THAT I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SEE IN OUR COUNTRY.

THIS IS SOMETHING YOU SEE IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

YOU SEE THIS IN FAILING DEMOCRACIES AT TIMES.

LIKE YOU SAID, AS A NATIONAL SECURITY PERSON, WE WATCH THESE KINDS OF THINGS HAPPEN OVERSEAS.

I THINK FOR MANY OF US IN NATIONAL SECURITY, IT'S APPALLING TO WATCH THIS UNFOLD HERE DOMESTICALLY, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THAT THREAT LIVES ON.

THESE GROUPS ARE STILL OUT THERE COORDINATING, THEY'RE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

THEY'RE VERY ACTIVE AND LOCAL REPUBLICAN PARTIES RIGHT NOW.

SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE THAT DAY ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

WHY WASN'T THERE FENCING?

THAT STILL BOTHERS ME TODAY HAVING BEEN WORKING INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE AND WATCHING THE FENCING GO UP AND ALL THE SECURITY PRECAUTIONS THAT HAPPENED IN THE SUMMER OF 2020.

I WOKE UP ON JANUARY 6th AND WAS CONFUSED BY THE IMAGES OF NO BARRIERS, NO FENCING, NO PRECAUTION WAS SET UP WHEN THIS WAS GOING TO CLEARLY BE A VERY HEATED SITUATION GIVE EVERYTHING WE HAD SEEN ONLINE.

I HAD BEEN OUT THERE WARNING PUBLICLY.

ALL OF THESE THINGS I THINK HAVE BEEN JUST VERY HARD TO WATCH AS NATIONAL SECURITY PERSON, ESPECIALLY SOMEONE WHO IN MORE RECENT YEARS FOCUSED ON THE HOMELAND SPACE.

SO I WANT TO DIG INTO A COUPLE OF THINGS YOU RAISED HERE.

FIRST THING, YOUR FORMER BOSS, THE FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT.

IT'S NOT A SECRET THAT HE'S BEEN AN OBJECT OF FASCINATION DEPENDING ON WHETHER YOU SIT OVER THE MANY YEARS HE SERVED IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

BUT HE NOW KNOWS AND CANNOT DENY THAT THE PRESIDENT HE SERVED SO LOYALLY WAS WILLING TO SEE HIM DIE AND HIS FAMILY.

AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING WHY HE HAS HAD SO LITTLE SAY ABOUT THAT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT?

YEAH.

I THINK THAT FWLD BETTER FOR THE COUNTRY TO HEAR FROM MIKE PENCE HIMSELF.

I HAVE ACTUALLY -- I'VE WANTED HIM TO COME FORWARD RIGHT IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF JANUARY 6th.

I THINK IT WOULD HAVE DONE A GREAT DEAL OF GOOD TO WALK BACK THE STOLEN ELECTION LIES THAT STILL LIVE ON TODAY, TO COME FORWARD RIGHT AWAY AND SAY, LOOK, THIS IS WRONG, THIS IS DANGEROUS FOR OUR COUNTRY.

WE HAVE TO STOP HEADING THIS DIRECTION.

BUT HE HASN'T.

AND I THINK THAT SHOWS YOU WHERE A LOT OF THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS RIGHT NOW BELIEVE THAT THE PACE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS.

I THINK FOR MIKE PENCE, I THINK HE IS HOPING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024.

THERE'S A LIKELIHOOD THAT HE WILL, AND I THINK HE'S TRYING TO BALANCE HOW DOES HE SORT OF WALK A FINE LINE HERE IN TERMS OF WHERE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S VOTERS ARE AND WHERE THEY THINK THE VOTERS ARE, AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR HIS FUTURE TO COME FORWARD?

DOES HE LET HIS STAFF CONTINUE TO SPEAK FOR HIM?

THEY WERE THERE WITH HIP IN THE MOMENT, SO I THINK THAT THEY'RE COMMUNICATING A LOT OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.

IS IT MORE POWERFUL TO HEAR FROM MIKE PENCE DIRECTLY?

I THINK IT WOULD BE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF VOTERS OUT THERE THAT IT WOULD RESONATE.

YOU CAN'T DISCOUNT HIM AND SAY THIS IS A MISCHARACTERIZATION.

WHEN THESE ARE REPUBLICANS SPEAKING OF, RIGHT, MIKE PENCE IS A LIFE THYME REPUBLICAN WHO WAS PUT AT GREAT RISK BY DONALD TRUMP.

BUT I'M ASKING YOU CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY HE SEEMS SO UNWILLING TO SPEAK UP WHEN HE DID THE HARD THING ALREADY?

THE HARD THING WAS TO RESIST THESE.

THE HARD THING WAS TO SAY NO AND SAY NO TO THE PRESIDENT'S FACE.

AND CLEARLY, HE'S NOT A PERSON -- THE FORMER PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR NO WHEN IT COMES TO HIS AGENDA, WHATEVER IT MAY BE.

SO HE ALREADY DID THE HARD THING.

WHAT HE WON'T DO IS PUBLICLY TALK ABOUT HIS STATE OF MIND.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN HELP US UNDERSTAND HIM.

I THINK IT'S A POLITICAL CALCULATION.

I THINK HE IS TRYING TO APPEASE A BASE THAT ALREADY CONSIDERS HIM A TRART FOR THE MAJORITY OF IT.

AND I THINK HE'S TRYING TO WALK A FINE LINE BETWEEN CONTINUING TO SORT OF ALIENATE THAT BASE, WHICH HE THINKS HE WILL NEED IN A 2024 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

SO I THINK IT COMES BACK TO POLITICS, AND I WOULD SAY IN THIS MOMENT, WHAT MORE HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE?

YOU'VE ALREADY LIVED THIS.

YOUR LIFE HAS BEEN PUT AT RISK.

I THINK IT MATTERS MORE TO PUT THE COUNTRY OVER ANYTHING ELSE RIGHT NOW.

WHY DO YOU THINK SO MANY PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE THIS?

BECAUSE CLEARLY, THE PROTAGONIST HERE COULDN'T ACCOMPLISH THIS ON THEIR OWN.

AND THE SUCCESS OF THIS DEMAGOGUERY RESTS ON THE WILLINGNESS OF OTHER PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IT AND TO FOLLOW ALONG.

DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF LIKE WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WILLING TO BUY INTO THIS?

WHAT IS THE APPEAL?

DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF THAT?

I THINK IN A LOT OF CASES IT'S BEEN A SENSE OF BELONG IS WHAT YOU SEE A LOT OF TIME WITH POPULATIONS THAT KIND OF GET DISENFRANCHISED, AND THEY FIND A CAUSE, AND THEY'RE AFRAID OF A LOT OF THESE GROUPS.

THERE'S A LOT OF RECRUITMENT GOING ON IN THE DARK WEB AND MORE ALTERNATE WEBSITES WHERE THEY'RE TELLING EACH OTHER LIES.

LOOK, THE OTHER ASPECT IS THAT FOREIGN ADVERSARIES REALLY EXPLOIT MOMENTS LIKE THIS AS WELL.

SO WE'VE OPENED THE APPARATUS TO ENABLE FOREIGN ACTORS TO MOVE IN AND ENCOURAGE THESE NARRATIVES.

THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS GOING FORWARD FOR THIS ELECTION IN THE FALL IS AS THE STOLEN ELECTION AND THESE SORT OF DIVISIVE NARRATIVES GET PUSHED OUT BY OUR OWN PEOPLE, BY OUR OWN AMERICANS, BY REPUBLICANS OUT THERE WHO ARE PUSHING THIS OR CANDIDATES THAT ARE PUSHING THIS KIND OF THING, FOREIGN ADVERSARIES WILL COME IN AND ALSO ENCOURAGE THAT KIND OF THING.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS IS LIKE THE RIGHT PLAYING GROUND FOR THEM.

THIS IS THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO THEM BECAUSE IT'S AMERICANS ATTACKING EACH OTHER, AND THEY WILL -- THEY WILL DO THEIR BEST THE AMPLIFY THOSE MESSAGES AND CREATE DIVISION.

THAT'S MY CONCERN GOING INTO NOVEMBER TO BE HONEST.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR AMERICANS TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAY THINK THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A FELLOW AMERICAN SOMETIMES IN THESE SITUATIONS, BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE BAD ACTORS LIKE RUSSIA AND OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WANT TO EXPLOIT THIS MOMENT.

AND I THINK THAT IS AN EQUALLY DANGEROUS PART OF ALL OF THIS IS THEY WANT ANOTHER JANUARY 6th TO HAPPEN.

THAT PLAYS TO THEIR FAVOR.

AND SO I THINK THAT IS -- THAT IS WHERE, AGAIN, WE GET BACK TO OUR DEMOCRACY BEING IMPERIL BECAUSE NOT ONLY IS IT HAPPENING DOMESTICALLY HERE AND WE WORRY ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN TERMS OF DYNAMICS HERE, IT IS ALSO A SITUATION WHERE WE KNOW THAT OUR FOREIGN ADVERSARIES ARE TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF THIS.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NOW?

BECAUSE HONESTLY, THE ONLY THING THAT STANDS OUT IS NOT JUST THAT YOUR FORMER BOSS, THE FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE HAS BEEN RELUCTANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

BUT THERE'S AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF FOREIGN POLICY LEADER REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE HAD VERY LITTLE TO SAY.

WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IN A TIME LIKE THIS, AND WHAT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AT A TIME LIKE THIS?

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE HAPPEN?

IN AN IDEAL WORLD, WHICH GIVEN THE FACTORS WE'RE SEEING AND THE ONGOING CHARACTERIZATION OF THIS, I DON'T THINK WE'LL COME TO FRUITION.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR REPUBLICANS TO SAY, ENOUGH AND TAKE A STAND.

START SPEAKING UP.

IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

I HEARD SOME REPORTING EARLIER TODAY WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW EFFECTIVE THE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN ABOUT PRESENTING JUST THE FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

BUT THEN IT'S IMPORTANT TO COME FORWARD AND TAKE A STAND AND STOP HAVING THESE PRIVATE MOMENTS.

I HAVE BEEN THERE WHERE PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF THESE CLOSED-DOOR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW CONCERNING SOMETHING TRUMP WAS DOING WHILE HE'S IN OFFICE.

HERE WE ARE YEARS LATER, AND YOU'RE STILL BEING INTIMIDATED AND BULLIED BY THIS ONE MAN WHO COMPLETELY CONTROLS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW.

AND I SAY THIS AS A LIFE-LONG REPUBLICAN WHERE WE SHOULD BE SUPPORTING THE LIZ CHENEYS WHO TOOK A STAND, WE SHOULD BE SUPPORTING THE INDIVIDUALS THAT REPORTED TRUMP BECAUSE THEY WERE IN THE RIGHT.

THEY DID IT BASED ON FACTS, AND THEY KNEW THAT WHAT HAPPENED WAS WRONG.

BUT INSTEAD, THEY'VE PUSHED THESE PEOPLE OUT OF THE PARTY, AND THEY'VE SUFFERED MANY OF THE SAME THREATS THAT THE INDIVIDUALS OR WITNESSES IN THESE HEARINGS ARE FACING TODAY.

SO PART OF IT, IS IT FEAR?

MAYBE, THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BRING THE WRATH OF DONALD TRUMP AND OTHERS, OF THIS EXTREMISM TOWARDS YOU, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO INCUR THAT.

BUT AT SOME POINT, I WOULD SAY DONALD TRUMP HAS SHOWN NO LOYALTY TO ANYONE.

RIGHT?

MIKE PENCE IS A TESTIMONY TO THAT, THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO LOYALTY.

IT IS A ONE-WAY STREET WHEN IT COMES TO HIM, AND HE CONTINUES TO DESTROY WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS BEFORE.

AND SO I THINK FOR OUR COUNTRY AND FOR OUR DEMOCRACY, IT MATTERS.

AND THEY SHOULD BE TAKING THE STAND, AND THEY SHOULD BE CALLING THIS OUT AND SAYING, NO MORE.

BUT I JUST DON'T SEE KEVIN McCARTHY, WATCHING HONESTLY THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE AND THE TYPES OF TWEETS AND RHETORICS THEY SPOUT OUT AND MISCHARACTERIZE THE HEARINGS EVEN THOUGH IT'S ALL FACTS AND REPUBLICANS IN THEIR OWN WORDS.

IT'S CLEAR THEY'VE MADE A DECISION THAT THIS IS WHERE THEY THINK THEIR VOTING BASE IS AND THEY'RE GOING TO CATER TO IT REGARDLESS OF WHAT THAT MEAN FOR OUR COUNTRY.

THIS GOES BEYOND YOUR NATIONAL SECURITY TRAINING.

BUT YOU ASK THESE PEOPLE, WHAT IF THE SHOE WERE ON THE OTHER FOOT?

WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS ACCEPTABLE CONDUCT?

IT WOULD BE OUTRAGEOUS TO THEM.

I'M CURIOUS WHY THEY DON'T SEE THROUGHOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY APPARATUS, THROUGHOUT THE APPARATUS, THEY DON'T SEE THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COUNTRY RUN BY LAW, YOU HAVE A COUNTRY RUN BY VIOLENCE OR WHOEVER MAKES RIGHT.

WHY ISN'T THAT MORE PERSUASIVE TO PEOPLE OTHER THAN YOURSELF AND FORMER STAFF MEMBERS LIKE YOURSELF?

THAT'S WHAT I'M SO SORT OF PUZZLED ABOUT.

DO YOU HAVE A THEORY ABOUT THAT?

LOOK.

I THINK ALL OF THESE PEOPLE KNOW BETTER.

THEY KNOW THE TRUTH.

THEY KNOW THE REALITY, AND THEY STANDARD.

BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY HAVE DECIDED THAT THIS IS A MONEY MAY RECOLLECT BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN FUND RAISING OFF OF THIS.

THAT'S ONE THING WE ALL NEED TO REMEMBER IS THAT THEY'RE STILL TAKING PEOPLE'S HARD EARNED MONEY BASED ON A LIE AND BASED ON SOMETHING THAT HAS NOW BEEN SHOWN THAT THEY KNEW WAS ILLEGAL, THEY KNOW THAT IT'S NOT TRUE.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FUND RAISE OFF OF IT, WHICH HONESTLY IS ONE THING THAT REALLY MAKES ME UPSET IS JUST THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY CONTINUE TO TAKE FROM A LOT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BOUGHT INTO THIS WHOLE THING.

AND SO A WILL THE OF IT -- IT'S A DOUBLE STANDARD.

THERE'S NO WAY AROUND THAT, RIGHT?

SO IN THIS MOMENT NOW, THE POWER OF THIS WHOLE MACHINE THAT THEY HAVE WHERE IT'S AN ECHO CHAMBER AND MISINFORMATION IS WE MAY SEE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SHIFT LATER ON AND FLIP THE NARRATIVE ON ITS HEAD WHEN IT'S CONVENIENT FOR THEM, WHICH WE HAVE SEEN THEM DO.

IS THERE ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR YOU'RE LOOKING TO SEE AS THESE HEARINGS CONTINUE THAT YOU WOULD POINT US TO?

YOU KNOW, I THINK I WANT -- I THINK IT WOULD BE POWERFUL IF PAT CIPOLLONE WOULD COME FORWARD.

HE WAS THE PRESIDENT'S LAWYER, AND HE HAS BEEN STATED IN THE HEARINGS.

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE REALLY TOOK OBJECTION TO THIS AND THREATENED TO QUIT AT TIMES.

SO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED THERE?

I ALSO THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO HEAR FROM SOME OF THE WHITE HOUSE STAFF, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT WORKED DIRECTLY FOR MARK MEADOWS SO THAT THEY CAN SHARE HOW THIS ALL UNFOLDED AND WHAT THEY SAW.

I THINK DETAILS LIKE THAT MATTER BECAUSE I THINK THESE ARE -- YOU CAN'T DISCOUNT THE FACT THAT THIS IS SOMEONE WHO LIVED IT.

AND I THINK IT'S THEIR FIRSTHAND WITNESSING OF WHAT HAPPENED AND THE EXTENT OF HOW MANY PEOPLE KNEW, WHICH WE ARE SEEING IN THESE HEARINGS, HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE AWARE THAT THIS WAS ALL A LIE AND THAT IT WAS WRONG AND THAT THEY TRIED TO STAND UP TO THIS INDIVIDUAL, OR AT LEAST TELL HIM AT TIMES.

BUT THEN IN THE END, SOME OF THESE PEOPLE MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION TO DOUBLE DOWN ON IT, WHICH IS WHAT YOU SEE WITH EASTMAN.

HE KEEPS COMING BACK AND SAYING, SORRY ABOUT THAT ATTACK THAT ALMOST KILLED YOU.

BUT CAN YOU GO ON AND DO THIS NOW?

CAN YOU STILL GO ON EVEN THOUGH IT LED TO THE DEATH OF POLICE OFFICERS AND PUT YOU IN DANGER AS WELL, TO MIKE PENCE, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO DO THIS, RIGHT?

TO SEE THAT DEVELOP AND HEAR THESE STORIES FIRSTHAND I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

SO I'LL BE LOOKING FOR THAT.

OBVIOUSLY, THE CURRENT MOMENT IS VERY DISTURBING.

IF YOU ADHERE TO A CERTAIN SET OF VALUES THAT BELIEVES THAT ELECTIONS SHOULD MATTER, THAT FOUNDATIONAL CONCEPTS SHOULD PREVAIL, THAT DEMOCRACY HAS A MEANING.

IT'S A DIFFICULT MOMENT, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE IN THIS MOMENT THAT SUGGESTS A WAY FORWARD?

I THINK -- YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO VOTERS AND AMERICANS WHO ARE PAYING ATTENTION AND LISTENING.

AND WHILE I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE HEARINGS AND HOW IT'S -- NOBODY'S GOING TO -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BREAK THROUGH.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THESE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF BEING VERY FACTUAL.

IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

AND TO THE POINT OF REPUBLICANS, I THINK BACK TO THE WATER GATE SCANDAL, AND THE REPUBLICAN KAK CUSS REALLY STOOD BY NIXON WHEN THOSE HEARINGS BEGAN IN THE SPRING OF 173, AND IT TOOK UNTIL JULY OF THE FOLLOWING YEAR FOR THEM TO FINALLY BREAK.

THERE'S A CRACK IN THE FOUNDATION HERE OF HOPING THAT A LOT OF THESE REPUBLICANS COME FORWARD.

WE KNOW THAT THEY WANT TO PIVOT FROM A LOT OF THEM.

BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, THEY DESPISE HIM.

MITCH McCONNELL IS NOT A FAN.

BUT WILL THEY DO THIS PUBLICLY AND START TO MOVE THE PARTY IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION IS YET TO BE SEEN.

BUT MAYBE.

I WANT TO HOPE THAT THAT WILL BE THE CASE BECAUSE IT'S BETTER FOR OUR COUNTRY.

AND LIKE THE REALITY IS WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE SOMEONE BE ABOVE THE LAW, NO MATTER HOW RICH YOU ARE, NO MATTER HOW POWERFUL, NO MATTER WHO IT IS, ACCOUNTABILITY AND JUSTICE MATTERS.

THAT'S THE FOUNDATION OF OUR COUNTRY.

SO I THINK -- I HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE ACCOUNTABILITY AS THESE FACTS CONTINUE TO COME TO FRUITION.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US ONCE AGAIN, OLIVIA TROY.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

REALLY INTERESTING CONVERSATION THERE BETWEEN OLIVIA TROY AND MICHELLE MARTIN.

> EVEN AS THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS CONTINUE, REPUBLICANS CONTINUOUSLY USE AMERICA'S WITHDRAW FROM AFGHANISTAN TO RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT JOE BIDEN'S LEADERSHIP.

NOW THAT COUNTRY ALREADY FACING CATASTROPHE IS REELING FROM ANOTHER DISASTER.

A MAGNITUDE 5.9 EARTHQUAKE HAS KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

HERE'S HOW ONE SURVIVOR DESCRIBES HER EXPERIENCE.

Translator: IT WAS MIDNIGHT WHEN THE QUAKES STRUCK.

THE KIDS AND I SCREAMED.

ONE OF OUR ROOMS WAS DESTROYED.

OUR NEIGHBORS SCREAMED.

DEADLIEST EARTHQUAKE THERE TO STRIKE THE COUNTRY IN TWO DECADES.

THE UNITED NATIONS HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR IN AFGHANISTAN JOINS ME NOW.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I KNOW YOU'RE VISITING SOME OF THE HARDEST HIT AREAS TOMORROW.

WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING TO OFFER THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN IMPACTED?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE ARE OFFERING THE VICTIMS AND THE FAMILIES BASIC ITEMS.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS OF COURSE PROVISION OF TENTS, BASIC KNOWN FOOD ITEMS SUCH AS LIKE COOKING SUPPLIES, FOOD, THAT'S ON ONE HAND.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE DEPLOYED A NUMBER OF MOBILE HEALTH TEAMS, AND WE HAVE BEEN HELPING HOSPITALS AROUND TO TREAT THE WOUNDED AND GET PEOPLE OUT OF THIS DIFFICULT SITUATION AS SOON AS WE CAN.

WE'RE COMING UPON WHAT'S GOING TO BE A YEAR SINCE THE U.S. WITHDREW FROM THE COUNTRY AND THE TALIBAN THAT TOOK OVER AND $7 BILLION OF THEIR RESERVES HAD BEEN FROZEN.

OBVIOUSLY, THE TALIBAN HAD NOT BEEN THE LEADERSHIP OF CHOICE FROM MOST OF THE DEVELOPED WESTERN WORLD IN MOST COUNTRIES.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEVELOPING STRATEGIES, THE COUNTRY WAS ALREADY DEALING WITH POVERTY, THE COUNTRY KNOWS THAT THERE ARE DROUGHTS AND MONSOON SEASONS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

I'M JUST CURIOUS TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS.

WHY WEREN'T MORE STRATEGIES IN PLACE TO AT LEAST PERHAPS WORK WITH THE TALIBAN TO HAVE A RAINY DAY FUND FOR CRISES LIKE THIS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY ARE JUST A MATTER OF TIME AS TO WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO HAPPEN?

AS A HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR AND AS SOMEONE WHO HAS SPENT A LIFE THYME WORKING IN DEVELOPMENT AND HUMANITARIAN TYPE OF WORK, I CAN SAY ONLY ONE THING, WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE MORE DOMESTIC SOLUTIONS TO THE AFGHAN PROBLEMS, AND THOSE SOLUTIONS ACTUALLY START AT THE AFGHAN VILLAGE.

RIGHT NOW, THAT VILLAGE IS NOT DOING WELL.

IT DOESN'T HAVE A SYSTEMS TO PRODUCE A BETTER AGRICULTURAL OUTPUT.

IT DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO MARKET TO SELL THOSE PRODUCTS, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A MODERN TECHNOLOGY.

ON TOP OF IT, IT HAS A CLIMATE CHANGE AND OF COURSE THE BANKING SYSTEMS COLLAPSE AND LACK OF THE FINANCIAL MARKETS FUNCTIONING NORMALLY IS CREATING AN ADDITIONAL LAYER AS YOU HAVE NOTED.

UNLESS WE RESOLVE THIS SITUATION AND GET BANKS WORKING AND GET MONEY/CASH INTO THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE, IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE A LEVELED ECONOMY GOING.

AND I'M AFRAID AFGHANISTAN WILL REMAIN A CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS OF INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, AND THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO GO.

THIS IS REALLY A MAJOR TEST FOR THE TALIBAN IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP.

THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO BE GIVING ABOUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS TO THOSE FAMILIES OF THOSE KILLED AND 500 TO THOSE INJURED.

I'M CURIOUS, HOW ACCOUNTABLE CAN THEY BE HELD?

HOW CAN YOU TRACE THAT MONEY AND MAKE SURE IT'S DELIVERED TO THOSE FAMILIES IN NEED?

AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OPTICS INTO THE NATIONAL BUDGET OF THE -- OR THE MANNER IN WHICH THEY WILL BE SPENDING THE BUDGET.

WHAT WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR IS THE RESOURCES GIVEN TO US BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

THE PAYOUT THE GN PROVIDES THROUGH OUR ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS TO BE DISPLACED USUALLY INCLUDE A PACKAGE OF CASH TO THE FAMILY AND HOUSEHOLD ITEMS, THREE-MONTH FOOD SUPPLY OF BASIC NEEDS SUCH AS WHEAT, FLOUR, OIL, COOKING UTENSILS.

WE ALSO ASSIST HOUSEHOLDS IN STARTING BASING INCOME GENERATION ACTIVITIES, SUCH AS GARDENING, GROWING CROPS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FOCUSSING ON AT THE MOMENT.

DEFINITELY MOVING FORWARD, WE'LL HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE SUCH AS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, SUCH AS UNDERSTANDING HOW THE NATIONAL BUDGET IS BEING SPENT.

IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO CREATE A MORE SUSTAINABLE FUTURE.

FROM YOUR TIME WORKING WITH THE TALIBAN, DO YOU FIND THEM AT ALL TO BE HONEST BROKERS?

RELIABLE PARTNERS?

CAN THEY BE TRUSTWORTHY AT ALL?

I HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.

IN THE AREA WORK THAT I DO, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY HUMANITARIAN WORK, THEY HAVE DELIVERED ON THE SECURITY PROMISE FOR US.

THEY HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE IN PROVIDING THE NECESSARY ENVIRONMENT FOR PROVISION OF THAT HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

AND IN THAT AREA OF WORK, I AM SATISFIED WITH THE LEVEL OF COOPERATION WHICH IS BEING PROVIDED.

NOW, OF COURSE, WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THE LIMITATIONS ON THE -- FOR INSTANCE, ON WOMEN'S ACCESS TO WORK AND TO SCHOOL, WHICH WE ARE ABLE TO ADDRESS IN A LIMITED WAY IN SOME PROVINCES, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN, IN OURS, NOT.

SO IT'S NOT ALL THE SAME IN THE SAME PROVINCE AND IN EVERY PLACE, AND IT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE CENTRAL LEVEL TO THE LEVEL OF PROVINCE.

IT'S NOT A HOMO GENERAL USE SITUATION.

A MERIT OF CRISES THERE AND ISSUES TO RESOLVE, AND FROM A BASIC STANDPOINT, IT'S GREAT TO FOCUS ON SCHOOLS AND EQUAL RIGHTS FOR WOMEN, BUT IT'S ALSO JUST FROM A LEVEL BASIS, VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE FOOD, A HOME, HEALTH AND HOSPITALS AND RESOURCES.

I WANT TO END BY ASKING YOU TO RESPOND TO A 31-YEAR-OLD WOMAN WHO LOST FOUR CHILDREN AND 17 RELATIVES.

SHE SPOKE TO THE NEW YORK TIMES AND SAID, I LOST EVERYTHING, MY WHOLE WORLD, MY WHOLE FAMILY.

I DON'T HAVE ANY HOPE FOR THE FUTURE.

I WISH WE HAD ALL DIED BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE TO TAKE CARE OF US TO FIND MONEY OR FOOD FOR US NOW.

GIVEN YOUR LINE OF WORK AS A HUMANITARIAN, HOW DO COMMENTS LIKE THAT IMPACT YOU?

I WOMAN SAYING SHE WOULD HAVE RATHER DIED WITH THE REST OF HER FAMILY AND HOW HOPELESS SHE FEELS RIGHT NOW?

YOU KNOW, YOU ARE RAISING SUCH A DIFFICULT QUESTION, AND IT'S SO HEART TOUCHING.

A PERSON LOSING HOPE IS ONE THING WE CANNOT LOSE.

WE MUST CONTINUE.

WE MUST WORK.

U.N. AND NGOs, THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE RIGHT NOW, WE ALL MADE THE CHOICE TO STAY IN THE COUNTRY, TO DELIVER FOR THE PEEP OF AFGHANISTAN.

THEY'RE OFTEN BLAMED FOR THE DIFFICULTIES AND CHOICES WHICH WE HAVE NOT MADE, BUT BY DOING SO, BY SAYING SO AND ACCEPTING THIS, WE'RE ALSO ACCEPTING A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO TO GIVE THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN HOPE.

THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE.

AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING, FOR THIS LADY AND FOR THE CHILDREN IN THE HOSPITAL, WHICH I GO HERE TO THE HOSPITAL WHICH IS JUST A FEW BLOCKS AWAY FROM WHERE I AM AND SEEING THESE MALNOURISHED CHILDREN AND THEIR MOTHERS.

YOU TRAVEL AROUND THE COUNTRY AND GO INTO THE HOSPITALS THERE, YOU SEE PEOPLE ON THE BED, FOUR, FIVE, SIX CHILDREN ON ONE BED.

WE MUST BE HERE BECAUSE THIS IS FOR THE HUMANITY.

THIS IS FOR ALL OF US TO BE ABLE TO LEAVE AND TO BE ABLE TO BE -- TO ANSWER SIMPLE QUESTIONS THAT THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT LEFT BEHIND.

SO MY ONLY MESSAGE TO HER AND TO ALL AFGHANS IS WE ARE HERE, WE WILL BE HELPING AS MUCH AS WE CAN, AND WE WILL STAY WITH THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN.

AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FORGOTTEN.

SUCH IMPORTANT WORK YOU ARE DOING.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR JOURNEY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, AND THANK YOU FOR KEEPING ATTENTION ON AFGHANISTAN.

SO IMPORTANT.

OF COURSE.

THANK YOU.

> FINALLY TONIGHT, DAME JULIE ANDREWS, THE STAR OF MARRY POPPINS AND THE SOUND OF MUSIC WAS RECENTLY AWARDED THE LIFE THYME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.

THE MOVIE WAS TWO YEARS IN THE MAKING.

THE EVENING WAS PRACTICALLY PERFECT IN EVERY WAY WITH FORMER CAST MEMBER REUNITING AND CRYING.

THE ACTORS WHO PLAYED THE CHILDREN FOR A SURPRISE PERFORMANCE.

JULIE GOT DOWN WITH CHRISTIANE IN 2019 TO REFLECT ON HER CAREER.

SO LET'S START FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

JULIE ANDREWS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

AND IT'S A GREAT PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU ON BOARD.

LET'S TALK ABOUT MARRY POPPINS BECAUSE THAT WAS YOUR FIRST FILM.

YES.

AND HOW?

WHO APPROACHED YOU TO DO MARRY POPPINS?

I WAS ON BROADWAY FOR QUITE A WHILE FOR MY FAIR LADY AND WOERNDFUL MUSICALS.

AND I WAS IN CAM LOT WITH RICHARD BURTON, AND WALT DISNEY CAME TO SEE THE SHOW.

THE MAN HIMSELF?

THE MAN HIMSELF.

APPARENTLY, I DIDN'T KNOW IT, BUT HE HAS BEEN ADVISE TODAY COME SEE THE YOUNG LADY IN CAMELOT, AND HE CAME BACKSTAGE.

I THOUGHT HE WAS COMING BACK TO BE POLITE AND HE ENJOYED THE SHOW AND SO ON, BUT HE PROCEEDED TO TELL ME ABOUT THIS LIVE ACTION ANIMATED FILM THAT HE WAS PLANNING OF MARRY POPPINS AND ASKED IF I WOULD LIKE TO COME TO HOLLYWOOD AND SEE THE DESIGNS AND HEAR THE SONGS AND SO ON.

I SAID, OH, MR. DISNEY, I WOULD LOVE TO, BUT I'M SO SORRY.

I'M PREGNANT.

HE SAID, WELL, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL WAIT.

SO I HAD NO IDEA THAT A MOVIE TAKES AS LONG AS IT DOES WITH PREPRODUCTION AND SO ON.

SO LOW AND BHOELD, ABOUT NINE MONTHS LATER WITH MY NEW BABY IN TOW AND MY HUSBAND, WE WENT OFF TO HOLLYWOOD.

IT IS AMAZING HE SAID HE WOULD WAIT.

I THINK IT'S JUST HE PROBABLY -- THE SCRIPT HADN'T BEEN COMPLETED AND EVERYTHING HAD TO BE PREPARED.

BUT IT WAS SUCH A WONDERFUL THING TO SAY.

THEN HE TURNED TO MY THEN-HUSBAND TONY WALLTON, AND SAID, AND WHAT DO YOU DO, YOUNG MAN?

AND TONY SAID, I'M A DESIGNER.

I'VE DONE SOME COSTUMES.

HE WAS RELATIVELY UNKNOWN IN THOSE DAYS.

DISNEY SAID, WELL BRING YOUR PORTFOLIO WHEN YOU COME WITH JULIE.

WHEN HE GOT THERE, HE HIRED HIM ON THE SPOT TO DO ALL THE SETS AND ALL THE COSTUMES IN THE MOVIE.

THAT'S A MASSIVE JOB BECAUSE IT'S ALL ABOUT SETS AND COSTUMES.

STARTING OUT AS A TOURIST IN LIFE AND MAKING MOVIES.

I MEAN, DISNEY'S TALENT FOR SPOTTING TALENT WAS AMAZING, AND HE DID THAT SO MANY TIMES WITH SO MANY WONDERFUL PEOPLE, TONY AND ME INCLUDED.

TELL US BECAUSE IT WASN'T THE EASIEST OF PERFORMANCES FOR YOU IN TERMS OF THE HARNESSES AND THE WIRES AND PHYSICALITY OF IT.

THERE WAS SO MANY SPECIAL ESKSS IN THE FILM, INCLUDING THE FLYING SEQUENCES.

IN THOSE DAYS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE AMAZING THINGS THEY HAVE THESE DAYS THAT MAKE IT EASIER TO DO ANIMATION AS WELL AS LIVE ACTING.

♪♪

SO DISNEY REALLY INVENTED EVERYTHING AT THE STUDIO.

AND I WAS FLYING AROUND IN EXCRUCIATINGLY PAINFUL HARNESSES.

AND THERE WAS A DAY WHERE I VERY NEARLY GOT DROPPED -- WELL, I DID DROP ACTUALLY.

I FELT MYSELF SLIPPING A LITTLE BIT ON THE WIRE, SO I CALLED DOWN AND SAID, WHEN I COME DOWN, COULD YOU PLEASE BE KIND ENOUGH JUST TO BRING ME DOWN GENTLY BECAUSE I THINK -- WELL, I WASN'T SURE AT WHICH POINT I DID GO ALL THE WAY TO THE STAGE, BUT THE GOOD THING IS I HAD COUNTERBALANCING EQUIPMENT AS WELL.

OF COURSE I DID.

BUT I DID COME DOWN PRETTY HARD.

AGAIN, VERY AHEAD OF ITS TIME, ALL OF THIS.

YOU GOT ALL THE AWARDS POSSIBLE FOR MARRY POPPINS, GOLDEN GLOBE, YOU GOT THE OSCAR.

BUT THERE IS THIS LEGEND THAT PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHOSEN FOR THE FILM VERSION OF MY FAIR LADY.

YOU AND ELISA DOO LITTLE ON BROADWAY.

THE PRODUCER JULIE WARNER WHO PRODUCED THE FILM OF MY FAIR LADY WAS OF COURSE AT THE GOLDEN GLOBES BECAUSE IT WAS ALSO NOMINATED.

AND JUST BEFORE I WENT ON STAGE, SOMETHING MADE ME SAY TO THE TABLE WHEN I WAS SITTING, YOU KNOW, I SUPPOSE SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY I SHOULD THANK JACK WARNER BECAUSE IF I HADN'T DONE MY FAIR LADY, I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO MARRY POPPINS, SO IMMEDIATELY ALL MY CHUMS SAID, DO IT JULIE.

I THOUGHT, I CAN'T DO THAT.

I WAS SO NEW IN HOLLYWOOD.

BUT WHEN I GOT UP THERE, SOME WICKED IMPULSE MADE ME SAY, I HAVE TO THANK MR. WARNER FOR MAKING THIS POSSIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THERE WAS THIS AWFUL SILENCE, AND I THOUGHT OH MY GOD, MY CAREER HAS ENDED.

BUT THEN THEY BURST OUT LAUGHING, INCLUDING MR. WARNER WHO WAS SO DEAR ABOUT IT.

AND THEN YOU GOT -- YOU DID SOUND OF MUSIC.

YES.

WHICH AGAIN, YOU NO, IS EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE FILM.

I MEAN, HOW MANY TIMES HAS EVERYBODY SEEN IT?

I WAS FASCINATED, THOUGH, BECAUSE THAT ICONIC SHOT OF YOU EMERGING ON THE TOP OF THE MOUNTAIN AND THE CAMERA PANS UP -- ♪ THE HILLS ARE ALIVE WITH THE SOUND OF MUSIC ♪ ♪ WITH SONGS THEY HAVE SUNG FOR A THOUSAND YEARS ♪

BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR OPENING SEQUENCE, THE HELICOPTER WAS USE --

FAMOUS.

THE FAMOUS HELICOPTER WAS FLYING AROUND TRYING TO GET THE SHOT.

HOW DID IT AFFECT YOU PHYSICALLY?

IT WAS ONE VERY SMALL PIECE OF FILM, BUT IT WAS THAT MOMENT OF WALKING TOWARD THE CAMERA AND DOING THAT SPIN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FILM.

AND SO I STARTED AT ONE END OF THE FILM AND THE HELICOPTER WITH AN INCREDIBLY GOOD CAMERA MAN HANGING OUT THE SIDE OF IT WITH THIS HUGE CAMERA STRAPPED TO HIM FROM THE OTHER END OF THE FIELD, AND WE APPROACHED EACH OTHER.

IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY SIGHT TO SEE THIS HELICOPTER COMING AT MY SIDEWAYS CRAB-LIKE ACROSS THE FIELD AS IT GOT LOWER AND LOWER, AND THEN I MADE MY TURN, AND THEN THE DIRECTOR SIGNALLED FOR ANOTHER TAKE AND ANOTHER TAKE AND ANOTHER TAKE.

BUT EVERY TIME THE HELICOPTER WENT BACK TO HIS SIDE OF THE FIELD AND I WENT BACK TO MINE, THE DOWNDRAFT FROM THOSE JET ENGINES JUST KNOCKED ME FLAT INTO THE GRASS.

SO EVENTUALLY, I WAS SORT OF COMING UP WITH MUD AND HAY AND A FEW THINGS LIKE THAT.

I KEPT INDICATING TO THE CAMERA MAN COULDN'T HE PLEASE MAKE A WIDER TURN AROUND ME, AND I JUST GOT THAT, FINE, LET'S DO ANOTHER TAKE.

AND THEN EXTRAORDINARILY -- AND I DIDN'T KNOW THIS UNTIL RESEARCHING -- THE FAMOUS SCENE IN THE ROW BOAT ON THE RIVER IN THE SOUND OF MUSIC WHERE YOU'RE MAKING A SURPRISE FOR CAPTAIN VON TRAP --

WELL, HE'S SUDDENLY HOME, AND WE DIDN'T REALIZE HE WAS HOME.

SO I STAND UP IN THE BOAT AND SAY, OH, CAPTAIN, YOU'RE HOME, AND TUMBLE OUT OF THE BOAT.

JUST BEFORE THAT TAKE ON THE LAKE, THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR CAME WADING OUT IN THE WATER TOWARD ME, AND HE SAID, CAN I JUST ASK YOU SOMETHING?

THE LITTLEST ONE CAN'T SWIM, SO COULD YOU FALL FORWARD OUT OF THE BOAT AND GRAB HER AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN, AND I THOUGHT, OH, MY GOD.

A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY.

AND OF COURSE THE BOAT ROCKED AND ROCKED AND ROCKED AGAIN, AND I WENT STRAIGHT OVER THE BACK WITH MY FEET RATHER LIKE MARY POPPINS, AND I'VE NEVER SWAM SO FAST IN MY LIFE.

SHE WAS A TROOPER.

SHE REALLY WAS.

SHE WENT UNDER A COUPLE OF TIMES, POOR CHILD.

OF COURSE, EVERYBODY WAS AIDING INTO THE WATER TO TRY TO REACH HER, THEY ASKED ME TO TRY TO GET TO HER FIRST.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> FOLKS, THE INEVITABLE JULIE ANDREWS.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER WAY TO END THE SHOW.

REMEMBER YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE PROGRAM ON TWITTER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR AND COMPANY ON PBS.