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> HELLO, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
DONALD TRUMP ATE THE REPUBLICAN'S LUNCH IN SOME WAYS, USED THEM AND THEY ARE EATING OUT OF HIS HAND.
THEY GOT A LOT OUT OF THE DEAL, TOO.
AS EXPLOSIVE EVIDENCE OF DONALD TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO SUBVERT DEMOCRACY, WE LOOK AT ENABLERS, HUMILIATIONS AND PRICE OF SUBMISSION.
MARK LEIBOVICH JOINS ME ON HIS NEW BOOK.
> PLUS --
ACADEMICS LIKE TO USE CULTS, THE TERM THAT'S USED NOW IS --
JAPAN'S UNIFICATION CHURCH UNDER THE MICROSCOPE AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF SHINZO ABE.
WE WILL TAKE LOOK AT HIS CONTROVERSIAL HISTORY.
> THEN I DID IT AFTER SANDY HOOK.
I WAS IN SUCH DES TO PAIR THAT I FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO GROUND MYSELF IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM.
FINDING LIGHT IN DARKNESS AND DESPAIR.
RENOWNED AUTHOR AND PSYCHOLOGIST MARY PIPHER GIVES US HER INSIGHT.
> COPING WITH TRYING TIMES.
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> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.
THE EVIDENCE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP SIMPLY KEEPS MOUNTING.
HIS MULTIPRONGED EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE 2020 ELECTION CONTINUE TO BE EXPOSED IN THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS AM WHILE MANY HAVE SINCE CHANGED THEIR TUNE, WHAT IS CLEAR IS THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS SURROUNDED BY A GROUP OF ENABLERS AND IN SOME CASES SYCOPHANTS.
WE HAVE SEEN NUMEROUS REPUBLICANS FLIP-FLOP ON TRUMP OVER THE YEARS.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK BACK AT SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM FOR EXAMPLE.
TRUMP AND I, WE HAVE HAD A HELL OF A JOURNEY.
I HATE IT BEING THIS WAY.
ALL I CAN SAY IS COUNT ME OUT.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
WE WILL PLAY THIS OUT.
WE IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE, IT'S JUST SHEER HATRED.
PEOPLE WHO SAY THE THINGS HE SAID WILL NEVER LEAD A GREAT NATION.
HE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL REPUBLICAN SINCE REAGAN.
TELL DONALD TRUMP TO GO TO HELL.
IT'S HIS NOMINATION IF HE WANTS IT AND I THINK HE WILL GET REELECTED IN 2024.
WHAT DOES LINDSEY GRAHAM REALLY THINK OF DONALD TRUMP?
WELL, THE ATLANTIC'S MARK LEIBOVICH ASKED GRAHAM AND A NUMBER OF OTHER KEY PLAYERS IN THE TRUMP UNIVERSE.
THE RESULT IS HIS LATEST BOOK, 'THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVITUDE,' DONALD TRUMP'S WASHINGTON AND THE PRICE OF SUBMISSION.
HE ALSO ASKED WHY MANY ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS FAIL TO PREVENT HIS TAKEOVER OF THE GOP.
OF COURSE, THERE WERE AND STILL ARE THOSE WILLING TO STAND UP TO TRUMP.
AND WE GOT INTO ALL OF THIS WHEN WE SAT DOWN EARLIER THIS WEEK.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, MARK.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.
LET'S START WITH YOU ARE WHY REACTION TO THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS NOW WHERE WE ARE INTO I THINK THE SEVENTH HEARING THIS WEEK.
WHAT IS YOUR TAKEAWAY BEEN IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT, IF ANY, IT HAS ON TRUMP'S POWER OVER THE PARTY?
IT'S SURPRISINGLY BEEN, I THINK EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE AND HAS BROKEN THROUGH.
I HAD MODEST EXPECTATIONS BECAUSE TRUMP AND SO MANY OF THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM HAVE JUST SKATED THROUGH SO MUCH OF THIS AND THEY HAVE RELIED ON THE BURNOUT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AND THE VIEWING PUBLIC.
BUT THIS HAS BEEN DONE SO EFFECTIVELY.
WHAT'S SO POWERFUL TO ME IS THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THESE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN THE WITNESSES AND THEY HAVE BEEN REPUBLICANS LARGELY, PAT CIPOLLONE, THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL.
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, MARK MEADOWS, TOP AIDE LAST WEEK OR TWO WEEKS AGO.
SO TO ME THAT'S A VERY POWERFUL STATEMENT ABOUT SIMPLE PATRIOTIC DUTY AND CHARACTER WHICH FALSE IN SHARP RELIEF TO THE COUDARDIS THAT HAS HELPED DONALD TRUMP STAY IN POWER AND STAY THE PREVAILING, YOU KNOW, VOICE INSIDE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO THIS DAY.
AND YOU FOCUS ON THE ENABLERS OF DONALD TRUMP AND THE SYCOPHANTS, NOT AS MUCH ON THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IN THIS BOOK.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LINDSEY GRAHAM, KEVIN McCARTHY, MARCO RUBIO, TED CRUZ.
WHAT'S INTERESTING OUT OF HE'S HEARINGS IS YOU DON'T HEAR THEIR VOICES, WOULD HAVE HEARD THEM IN THE PAST.
WHAT DOES THEIR SILENCE SAY?
IT SPEAKS MULTITUDES.
PART IS YOU KNOW IT DRIVES TRUMP CRAZY NO ONE IS RUNNING OUT THERE DEFENDING HIM.
IT'S BEEN RADIO SILENCE, WHICH IS DEPRESSING.
YOU WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE ONE OR TWO REPUBLICANS THAT WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM BEFORE THAT HAS SEEN THIS AND WOULD BE OUTRAGED TO SAY THIS HAS TO BE STOP AND THIS HAS TO BE A THING EVERYONE PAYS ATTENTION TO.
BUT I THINK THE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN DONE EXPERTLY.
IT'S BEEN SPARSE, ELOQUENT, THE WITNESSES HAVE BEEN TREMENDOUS AND I HOPE IT KEEPS GOING AND I HOPE MORE PEOPLE COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK.
AN OUTLIER HAS BEEN LIZ CHENEY, CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE.
SHE MAY LOSE HER JOB AS CONGRESSWOMAN AND HER RANKING AMONG REPUBLICAN ELITES HERE BECAUSE OF HER STEADFASTNESS IN STANDING UP FOR DEMOCRACY AND THE CONSTITUTION.
I WANTED TO QUOTE SOMETHING SHE SAID EARLIER THIS WEEK.
I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT.
SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE ARGUMENT NOW IN TERMS OF DEFENDING THE PRESIDENT AND SHE SAID THE ARGUMENT SEEMS TO BE T THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS MANIPULATED BY OTHERS OUTSIDE THE ADMINISTRATION, PERSUADED TO IGNORE ADVISORS INCAPABLE OF TELLING RIGHT FROM WRONG.
THE STRATEGY IS TO BLAME PEOPLE HIS ADVISORS CALL QUOTE THE CRAZIES FOR WHAT DONALD TRUMP DID.
THIS IS NONSENSE.
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS A 76-YEAR-OLD MAN, HE IS NOT AN IMPRESSIONABLE CHILD.
WHAT STOOD OUT TO ME IS THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF HIS ADMINISTRATION AFTER HE WON IN 2016, THAT DID SEEM TO BE AT LEAST THE HOPE FOR ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS WAS THAT HE WOULD BE THIS VESSEL, HE WAS SO IMPRESSIONABLE, THEY COULD SORT OF USE HIM TO CARRY THROUGH THEIR AGENDA, THEIR POLICIES.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT NOW GIVEN WHAT WE JUST HEARD FROM LIZ CHENEY?
THE ENABLERS OF DONALD TRUMP ARE POINTING TO -- HE IS TOO INCOMPETENT TO HAVE DONE THIS ON HIS OWN.
GET A LOAD OF THIS.
I DON'T THINK THEY COULD HAVE COLLUDED.
HOW COULD THEY CLUED WITH RUSSIA?
THEY COULDN'T COLLUDE WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.
THAT WAS LINDSEY GRAHAM'S LINE.
AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE USED DONALD TRUMP.
I REMEMBER IN ONE OF THE INTERVIEWS FOR THE BOOK, ADAM SCHIFF SAID DONALD TRUMP ATE THE REPUBLICANS LUNCH IN SOME WAYS, USED THEM AND THEY WERE EATING OUT OF HIS HAND BUT THEY GOT A LOT OUT OF THE DEAL TWO, JUDGES, THREE SUPREME COURT JUDGES, A TAX BREAK, THEY GOT TO KEEP THEIR JOBS, LINDSEY GRAHAM, YOU KNOW, MADE IT WORK FOR HIM, HE COULD STAY IN THE SENATE FROM SOUTH CAROLINA, KEVIN McCARTHY WANTS TO BE SPEAKER.
SO THERE WAS A LOT OF MUTUAL BENEFIT HERE.
BUT ULTIMATELY I THINK IT STEMS FROM WEAKNESS.
AND YOU ASK THE QUESTION AT THE START OF THE BOOK ABOUT THE CHICKEN AND EGG, WHAT CAME FIRST.
WAS DONALD TRUMP JUST A SYMPTOM OF WHAT DIRECTION THE COUNTRY WAS HEADED IN, OR WAS HE REALLY THE GRENADE THAT BLEW THE COUNTRY AND THE PARTY UP.
DID YOU GET ANY SORT OF ANSWER TO THAT BIG QUESTION?
DONALD TRUMP ABSOLUTELY EXPLOITED THE CYNICISM OF THE UNITED STATES POLITICS AND SORT OF JUMPED INTO IT AND SORT OF PUT IT AT ARE LARGE AND PUT HIS NAME ON EVERYTHING AND DID WHAT HE DID IN BUSINESS AND POP CULTURE AND TV IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
BUT THE OTHER CHICKEN/EGG QUESTION EVERYONE SAYS THAT DONALD TRUMP'S SUPERPOWERS, THE VOTERS LOVE HIM, 80, 90% OF THE VOTERS WILL DO ANYTHING FOR HIM AND OTHER REPUBLICAN ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE TO DO HIS BIDDING OTHERWISE THEY LOSE THEIR JOBS.
I WOULD SAY THAT THE REASON THAT DONALD TRUMP IS SO POPULAR WITH THE PS IS BECAUSE EVERY OTHER LEADER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS JUST WAVED THE WHITE FLAG FROM THE START.
THERE HAS BEEN NO -- THERE HAVE BEEN VERY FEW COUNTER ARGUMENTS.
THERE HAS BEEN NO STRENGTHS IN THE FACE OF THIS BULLY.
AND THAT'S WHY LIZ CHENEY HAS BEEN SUCH A REFRESHING AND I THINK INSPIRATIONAL CHARACTER THROUGH THIS.
AND SHE MIGHT LOSE HER JOB IN WYOMING.
THE TRUMPIEST STATE IN THE COUNTRY WITH 500,000 PEOPLE IN IT.
I THINK ULTIMATELY SHE BELIEVES HISTORY IS FOR KEEPS.
PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER THIS.
SHE WANTS HER KIDS TO REMEMBER THIS.
SHE WANTS HER LEGACY TO MEAN SOMETHING.
TO ME THAT'S IMPORTANT AND REFRESHING.
YOU BRING UP LEGACY AND THAT'S A TOPIC YOU BROUGHT UP WITH OTHERS.
WHAT DID THEY SAY ABOUT THAT QUESTION?
I ASKED THIS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT AND THEIR ANSWER WAS ALWAYS I DON'T CARE ABOUT MY LEGACY ESSENTIALLY.
KEVIN McCARTHY LOOKED AT ME LIKE I HAD THREE HEADS, RIGHT?
HE SAID, YOU KNOW, OH, YEAH, WHERE IS THAT STATUE TO JEFF FLAKE.
JEFF FLAKE IS AN ANTI-TRUMP CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN WHO WAS VERY OUTSPOKEN ABOUT IT, LOST HIS JOB.
BUT RUDY GIULIANI USED TO SAY F IT, I WILL BE DEAD, DOESN'T MATTER.
TRUMP SAID IF I LOSE THIS ELECTION, THAT WILL BE MY SAME THING.
WILLIAM BARR, LINDSEY GRAHAM THE SAME THING.
THEY SPIT ON THE IDEA BEYOND THE DAY TO DAY EX PAIDIANCY OF KEEPING DONALD TRUMP HAPPY.
NOTHING BEYOND THAT MATTERS.
NOTHING ABOUT HISTORY OR THE LEGACY OF THE COUNTRY OR THE CONSTITUTION EVEN.
IT'S A VERY CYNICAL VIEW BUT VERY PERVASIVE.
YOU REMIND VIEWERS OF WHAT THESE PEOPLE AND SUPPORTERS SAID ABOUT THE PRESIDENT JUST A FEW YEARS AGO.
SEAN SPICER, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET THROUGH THIS.
WE ARE JUST TRYING TO LIMIT THE DAMAGE.
HE WENT ON TO THE PRESS SECRETARY.
LINDSEY GRAHAM CALLED HIM AN IDIOT IN BETWEEN.
RICK PERRY A CANCER.
HUGH HEWITT ACCEPTING TRUMP AS A NOM WHICH LIKE IGNORING STAGE 4 CANCER.
OBVIOUSLY, HE WENT ON TO BE A BIG SUPPORTER.
IN GETTING TO THE BOTTOM OF WHY, WHY THEY WOULD COME AROUND AND WHY THE CYNICISM, HYPOCRISY, WHAT DID YOU FIND?
IS IT JUST BEING CLOSE TO POWER?
IS IT SOMETHING ELSE?
ONE THING THAT WAS CLEAR TO ME IN 2016 AND REMAINS CLEAR TO ME TODAY IS THAT HIS BIGGEST ENABLERS, BIGGEST SUPPORTERS, THE LINDSEY GRAHAMS, MARCO RUBIOS, THEY KNOW WHAT HE IS ABOUT, THEY KNEW IT THEN, THEY KNOW IT NOW AND ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN SAYING IS THAT THE GAP BETWEEN WHAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING PUBLICLY ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, WHAT THE SUPPORTERS SAY PUBLICLY ABOUT HIM, THE ADORATION, YOU KNOW, THE GLOWING ADJECTIVES VERSUS THE UTTER CONTEMPT THEY SHOW IN PRIVATE AMONG EACH OTHER OR WHEN THEY ARE TALKING OFFER THE RECORD SO FORTH HAS NEVER BEEN SO GAPING AS ANYTHING I HAVE SEEN.
THERE IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT AUDIENCES, DIFFERENT PEOPLE, DIFFERENT SIDES OF PEOPLE, BUT IT'S JUST BEEN A STRIKING THING TO WATCH.
PERHAPS THE DARKER SIDE IS THE FEAR FACTOR AND THE INTIMIDATION.
AND NOT JUST THE PROXIMITY TO POWER AND THE RELEVANCE, BUT CONCERN AS WE'VE HEARD OUT OF HE'S HEARINGS AND AS WE HEARD OVER THE COURSE OF THE HIS ADMINISTRATION IN FOUR YEARS.
THE CONSTANT THREATS AND THE HARASSMENT THAT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, WHETHER THEY WERE ELECTED OFFICIALS OR THOSE THAT WERE IN THE INNER CYCLICAL, ANY TIME THEY WOULD SPEAK OUT TORE DO THE RIGHT THINGS, THEY WERE HA HARASSED AND THEIR FAMILIES THREATENED.
I AM GLAD YOU ASKED THIS.
I THINK PEOPLE FOCUS TOO MUCH ON THE PSYCHOLOGICAL BENEFIT OR THE OPPORTUNISTIC BENEFIT OR POLITICAL BENEFIT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY A LOT WAS RULE BY FEAR.
I REMEMBER TALKING TO A LOT OF SORT OF, YOU KNOW, FAIRLY AMASS REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN AROUND JANUARY 6th AND THEY WERE FROOEKD OUT.
THEY WERE GOING TO VOTE FOR CERTIFICATION FOR JOE BIDEN.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
EVERY FOUR YEARS EXCEPT IN A FEW S ISOLATED CASES.
THEY WERE FREAKED OUT.
THEY WERE GETTING NO LEADERSHIP.
KEVIN McCARTHY WAS GOING AWOL AND THEY WERE SAYING, YOU YOU KNOW, I CAN'T VOTE FORECERTIFICATION.
ONE, YOU KNOW, JOSH HAWLEY AND TED CRUZ, THESE SENATORS AND JIM JORDAN, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS OF CONGRESSING SAYING I AM GOING TO VOTE AGAINST CERTIFICATION AND THE PRESIDENT IS CALLING FOR IT AND IF I DON'T MY FAMILY WILL BE IN TROUBLE, IN JEOPARDY, I CAN'T DO THIS TO MYSELF OR MY FAMILY, I HAVE YOUNG KIDS.
THEY WOULD SAY TO EACH OTHER AND THEY WOULD BE ALMOST IN TIERS SOMETIMES AND THERE WERE A LOT OF ACCOUNTS OF THIS AND AGAIN, LIKE AS YOU SAID, THAT IS THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF AUTHORITARIANISM.
THAT IS JUST STRAIGHT UP INTIMIDATION AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS.
SHORT-TERM REPUBLICAN PARTY GOT TWHAT THEY WANT.
TRUMP IN OFFICE.
MAY GET THE MIDTERMS IN THE HOUSE IN JUST A FEW MONTHS.
LONGER TERM, HOW DAMAGING HAS HE BEEN FOR THE PARTY AS A WHOLE?
WAS HE PERHAPS NOT WORTH ELECTING?
YOU KNOW, THE PRICE HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY HIGH.
AND THEY HAVE LOST A LOT.
HALF OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO WERE IN CONGRESS WHEN DONALD TRUMP TOOK OVER EITHER RETIRED OR DEFEATED.
SO THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TURNOVER.
YOU KNOW, THEY GOT JUDGES.
BUT WHAT THEY -- WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY ALSO HAVE A MESS.
THEY ARE STILL VERY MUCH AT THE MERCY OF THIS ONE GUY.
AND EVEN NOW, I MEAN, YES, I THINK IT'S LIKELY THAT THE REPUBLICANS WIN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BUT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS CANDIDATES ARE PROBABLY GAG TO COUGH UP A FEW SENATE SEATS FOR REPUBLICANS.
LOOK WHAT HE DID TO GEORGIA.
HERSCHEL WALKER, TOTAL TRUMP ACOLYTE, NOT A STRONG CANDIDATE, NOT PERFORMED WELL.
DR. OZ IN PENNSYLVANIA, UN, YOU KNOW, OFF TO A BAD START.
NOT A -- NOT PROVEN TO BE A GREAT CANDIDATE.
THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THOSE ARE BIG RACES.
THE SENATE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, OBVIOUSLY, AND WE'LL SEE.
BUT THE LARGER PROBLEM IS I DON'T THINK PEOPLE -- AND IF -- THESE ARE ALL CONSERVATIVES.
THIS HAS NOT BEEN A CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT IN A POLICY SENSE.
SO, I MEAN I DON'T KNOW.
AGAIN, I MEAN WILL THEY LOOK BACK AS A NET PLUS OR MINUS?
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY BOTHER TO THINK THAT WAY.
WHEN YOU TALK TO THEM, A LOT OF IT THEY SEEM UNHAPPY TO BE TRYING TO DEFEND IT.
THEY ARE DOING IT.
THEY ARE STAYING WHAT THEY NEED TO SAY.
I DON'T SENSE A LOT OF JOY IN CONTINUING TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH DONALD TRUMP.
FINALLY, I MEAN THEY HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT THEIR CONSTITUENTS HAVE BEEN PRESSURING THEM TO DO.
I WONDER IF YOU ARE SEEING A SHIFT.
IN THE BOOK, AND THIS STOOD OUT TO ME, YOU TALK TO A VOTER WHO WAS, I THINK, A WAITRESS AT A DINER.
RIGHT.
IN OHIO, AND YOU SAY I HEAR THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN, TRUMP WAS A TRUTH TELLER SES DESPITE LYING.
WHERE IS THE BASE NOW?
A POLL FOUND HALF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S PRIMARY VOTERS ARE SEEKING SOMEONE OTHER THAN TRUMP IN 2024.
THERE IS A HEATED CONTEST BETWEEN HIM AND GOVERNOR DeSANTIS OF FLORIDA.
DO YOU THINK HE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS GRIP OVER THE PARTY AND THE BASE IN THE YEARS AHEAD?
I DO.
AND I THINK THE REASON IS, FIRST OF ALL, I MEAN, YES, PEOPLE ARE WEARY OF TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
HALF OF THEM.
BUT THAT SAME POLL, THAT SAME 'NEW YORK TIMES' POLL, I MEAN HE WAS PRETTY ROCK SOLID WITH 45%. IF IT'S RON DESERTS ALONE, YEAH, MAYBE IT COULD BE A GOOD HEAD-TO-HEAD LIKE IT COULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD HEAD-TO-HEAD WITH TED CRUZ AND DONALD TRUMP OR MARK OTHER RUBIO AND DONALD TRUMP.
UNFORTUNATELY, FOR THE CHALLENGERS THERE WILL BE MORE THAN ONE OF THEM.
I DON'T THINK TED CRUZ OR MIKE POMPEO WILL STEP ASIDE AND LEAVE RON DeSANTIS AS THE HOPE OF THE PARTY.
OR PENCE.
OR PENCE, EXACTLY.
SO, YEAH, I MEAN A LOT OF IT COPS DOWN TO MATH AT A CERTAIN POINT.
BUT I ALSO THINK, LOOK, THEY ARE ALL -- EVEN DeSANTIS IS A TRUMP ADJACENT CANDIDATE.
HE BUILT HIS CAREER ON JUST SORT OF ABSOLUTE SYCOPHANCY TO DONALD TRUMP.
YOU KNOW, HE IS ACTING KIND OF LIKE TRUMP.
I ALSO -- I DON'T THINK A GUY LIKE THAT IS GOING TO SCALE WELL ONCE TRUMP GETS HIS HANDS ON HIM.
HE IS NOT A COMPELLING PERSONALITY.
YOU THINK TRUMP RUNS AGAIN?
YES.
IF THAT'S THE CASE, DOES JOE BIDEN?
HE SAID THE ONLY REASON HE RAN THE FIRST TIME WAS TO DEFEAT --
YEAH, YOU THE DEMOCRATS HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES.
I MEAN, BIDEN HAS HIS OWN ISSUES, OBVIOUSLY.
I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MENACES OF DONALD TRUMP THE FOCUS OF MY BOOK WAS HIS EFFECT ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND HOW THEY REACTED TO THEM.
IT'S MADE THE DEMOCRATS RISK AVERSE.
JOE BIDEN WAS NOMINATED IN 2020 BECAUSE HE WAS THE SAFEST CHOICE.
THEY THOUGHT, OKAY, HE IS FAMILIAR, HE SCARES THE FEWEST NU NUMBER OF PEOPLE, MOST LIKELY TO BEAT TRUMP.
IT WAS THE RIGHT CALCULATION.
DO WE HAVE TO GO BA AC TO THAT?
YOU KNOW, I THINK MOST AMERICANS SAY IT'S A DEPRESSING PROSPECT TO THINK ABOUT RUNNING THAT BACK.
DEMOCRATS ARE AS AFRAID OF TRUMP IF NOT MORE SO THAN REPUBLICANS ARE, SO HERE WE ARE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
A GREAT BOOK.
WALK DOWN MEMORY LANE.
THANK YOU.
> JAPAN'S LONGEST SERVING PRIME MINISTER SHINZO ABE WAS LAID TO REST THIS WEEK.
HUGE CROWDS GATHERED IN TOKYO TO BID HIM A FINAL FAREWELL.
AND NOW ATTENTION IS TURNING TO THE SUSPECT AND HIS ASSASSINATION AND WHAT MIGHT HAVE MOTIVATED HIM.
ACCORDING TO POLICE A 41-YEAR-OLD HAD A GRUDGE AGAINST A CHURCH HE BELIEVED ABE'S GRANDFATHER, ANOTHER FORMER PRIME MINISTER, HELPED TO EXPAND.
POLICE HAVE NOT NAMED THE ORGANIZATION BUT SCRUTINY IS FALLING ON THE UNIFICATION CHURCH AND NOT FOR THE FIRST TIME.
CORRESPONDENT KYUNG LAH TELLS US MORE.
THE SUSPECT IN THE ASSASSINATION OF JAPAN'S FORMER PRIME MINISTER IN CUSTODY.
POLICE CONTINUE TO COMB THE SCENE FOR CLUES IN AN INVESTIGATION INCREASINGLY TURNING TO AN ORGANIZATION WITH A CONTROVERSIAL PAST.
THE UNIFICATION CHURCH BORN IN KOREA WITH TENTACLES FROM JAPAN TO THE UNITED STATES.
WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THEM AS A CULT?
ACADEMICS DON'T LIKE TO USE THAT TERM, CULT.
THE TERM THAT'S USED NOW IS NEW RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS.
SIMON LEE STUDIES THE UNIFICATION CHURCH, A RELIGION BACK IN THE SPOTLIGHT AFTER SHINZO ABE'S MURDER.
POLICE SAY TETSUYA YAMAGAMI WAS ANGRY AT A GROUP THAT HE BELIEVED ABE HAD TIES TO.
POLICE HAVE NOT NAMED THAT GROUP.
BUT A DAY BEFORE ABE'S MURDER THE UNIFICATION CHURCH SAYS YAMAGAMI FIRED BULLETS AT ONE OF ITS BUILDINGS.
AT A NEWS CONFERENCE THE CHURCH ALSO SAYS THE SUSPECT'S MOTHER IS A MEMBER.
JAPANESE LOCAL MEDIA REPORT THE SUSPECT TOLD POLICE SHE MADE LARGE DONATION IT IS THAT RUINED THE FAMILY FINANCIALLY.
CNN HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO REACH HER ABOUT HER PURPORTED INVOLVEMENT WITH THE CHURCH.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH'S JAPANESE BRANCH DIDN'T ELABORATE, BUT SAYS HE WAS MADE AWARE THAT SHE HAD FINANCIAL TROUBLES AND DISTANCED THEMSELVES FROM THE CRIME.
WE'RE STRUGGLING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THIS HAPPENED, SAYS THE CHURCH PRESIDENT.
WE WILL COOPERATE WITH THE POLICE TO REVEAL HIS MOTIVES.
BUT CLAIMS OF THE CHURCH TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HIS MEMBERS' WEALTH ARE NOT KNEW.
LAWYE YAMAGUCHI.
THE ATM FOR THE RELIGION IN JAPAN.
YES.
THE COMMON THREAD, YAMAGUCHI SAYS HIS CLIENTS GAVE THE CHURCH ALL THEIR LIFE SAVINGS.
YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THESE VICTIMS LOSE?
WOW, MILLIONS?
SO DESTROYING FAMILY, DESTROYING HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS, DESTROYING THE FREE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.
THE CHURCH PRESIDENT SAID THAT, QUOTE, DENATIONS FROM BELIEVERS P.R. BASED ON INDIVIDUAL WILL.
THEY ARE NOT STRANGER TO PUBLIC SCRUTINY.
IN 1980s SUN MOON, A WELL KNOWN FIGURE BY THEN, HE LED MASS WEDDING AND VOW RENEWAL CEREMONIES.
THE CHURCH RAPIDLY EXPANDED IN THE STATES.
HIS FOLLOWERS KNOWN THE MUNIS OUTSPOKEN DEFENDERS.
I LOVE HIM.
I RESPECT HIM.
BUT TROUBLE WOULD SOON FOLLOW.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S INVESTIGATING THE LEADER OF THE UNIFICATION CHURCH.
MOON WAS CONVICTED OF TAX FRAUD AND SPEND ABOUT A YEAR IN PRISON.
HE DIED IN 2012 TRIGGERING A FAMILY FEUD.
WIDOW IS NOW IN CHARGE OF THE UNIFICATION CHURCH.
HIS SONS BROKE AWAY, FORMING A RIVAL RELIGION, HEADQUARTERED IN PENNSYLVANIA, THE SANCTUARY CHURCH, ALSO KNOWN AS ROD OF IRON MINISTRIES.
THE AR 15 RIFLE THEY SAY IS THE MODERN INCARNATION OF THE IRON ROD IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS.
THE IDEALOGICAL RIFT BETWEEN SONS AND MOTHER SPILLS OVER TO THEIR FOLLOWERS.
THIS FIGHT BETWEEN THE TWO FACTIONS WAS JUST THIS MONTH IN JAPAN AND SANCTUARY CHURCH DISMISSED SPECULATION THAT THE SUSPECT IN ABE'S ASSASSINATION MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE OF ITS PARISHIONERS.
JAPANESE MEDIA REPORTS YAMAGAMI TOLD POLICE HE BLAMED NOT JUST ABE, BUT HIS GRANDFATHER.
KISHI ALSO A PRIME MINISTER, ATTENDED UNIFICATION CHURCH EVENTS.
ABE SPOKE AT A UNIFICATION EVENT JUST LAST YEAR.
WHETHER THAT FAMILY CONNECTION BECAME AN OBSESSION OF THE SUSPECT NOW SEEMS TO BE A FOCUS OF THE INVESTIGATION.
OUR THANKS TO KYUNG LAH FOR THAT REPORT.
> TURNING NOW TO A NEW DOCUMENTARY INVESTIGATING THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA.
LEAVE NO TRACE EXPOSES 82,000 CLAIMS OF SEXUAL ABUSE AGAINST THE YOUTH ORGANIZATION WITH FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS FROM SURVIVORS.
DIRECTOR IRENE TAYLOR AND FORMER BOY SCOUT STUART LORD JOINED HARI SREENIVASAN TO SUCCESS THE CENTURY-LONG COVER-UP.
A NOTE, THAT THIS CONVERSATION CONTAINS ACCOUNTS OF ABUSE WHICH MAY BE DIFFICULT FOR SOME TO HEAR.
IRENE TAYLOR, STUART, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
WHY DO THIS FILM ABOUT SCOUTING?
HOW INTEGRAL HAS SCOUTING BEEN IN AMERICAN LIFE AND MORE SPECIFICALLY YOUR FAMILY?
I THINK SCOUTING IS PART OF OUR AMERICAN FABRIC.
I MEAN, THERE IS A WHOLE MYTHOLOGY AROUND WHAT A GOOD SCOUT IS.
IT'S PRACTICALLY USED TO DESCRIBE IT'S SYNONYMOUS WITH INTEGRITY.
I HAVE THREE SONS CHTS TWO WERE SCOUTS.
IT WAS A BIG PART OF MY FAMILY.
WE WOULD GO ON OUTINGS TOGETHER.
I DIDN'T KNOW IT AT THE TIME, I LIVE IN OREGON, BUT IT TURNED OUT OUR COUNSEL HERE IN MY LOCAL AREA OF PORTLAND, OREGON, HAD A STRONG HISTORY, A DARK HISTORY I WASN'T AWARE OF.
STUART LORD, I WANT TO ASK YOU WHY DID YOU JOIN SCOUTING AND WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?
WELL, I JOINED SCOUTING AS -- I WAS 11 YEARS OLD.
I JOINED WHEN THEY RECRUITED BOYS AT MY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
I JOINED BUS I WANTED TO BE OUTDOORS.
I GREW UP IN NEW ROCHELLE, NEW YORK, AND SCOUTING ALLOWED ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE, TO REALLY DEVELOP AS A LEADER, BEING A PATROL LEADER AND LEADING OTHER BOYS AND WAS A WAY FOR ME TO BE ACTIVE AS A YOUNG PERSON.
SO I BENEFITTED A LOT FROM SCOUTING.
I ALSO WAS HARMED BY SCOUTING.
BEGINNING AROUND 11 YEARS OLD UNTIL I WAS 18, I WAS ABUSED, CERTAINLY ABUSED BY MY ASSISTANT SCOUTMASTER AND OTHER PEOPLE HE INTRODUCED ME TO.
I, MYSELF, WAS A BOY SCOUT AND EAGLE SCOUT.
THE FIRST ONE OF THE SCOUT LAWS, SKOUT IS TRUSTWORTHY.
HOW MUCH DID TRUST HAVE TO PLAY WITH HOW THESE MEN WERE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU?
YES, A SCOUT IS TRUSTWORTHY AND OTHER THINGS THAT DEVELOP CHARACTER.
SO I TRUSTED MY SKOUT MASTER.
MY SCOUTMASTER MET MY MOM AND REALIZED I DIDN'T HAVE A FATHER AND ASKED MY MOM IF HE COULD SORT OF, YOU KNOW, BECOME THAT SURROGATE FATHER.
HE USED TO CALL HIMSELF MY DAD SOMETIMES.
AND SO THERE WAS -- WHEN HE INTR INTRODUCED HIMSELF TO MY NOM MOM, SHE SAID, YEAH, I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO STUART, AND THAT RESULTED IN HIM TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ME AND GROOMING ME AND I TRUSTED HIM AND HE ALSO THREATENED ME, BUT I STILL TRUSTED HIM BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY I LEARNED TO TRUST ADULTS AND AUTHORITY.
HE WAS ANOTHER ADULT THAT I TRUSTED.
IRENE, THIS WAS NOT LIMITED TO A SPECIFIC TROOP OR A COUNCIL OR CITY.
YOUR DOCUMENTARY GOES AND LOOKS AT THE DOCUMENTS AND FINDS THAT THIS HAPPENED ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES.
HOW DO WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY CHILDREN WERE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF?
WHO KEPT THE RECORDS?
THE BOY SCOUTS KEPT THE RECORDS.
THEY CALLED THEM INTERNALLY THE PERVERSION FILES.
AND I THINK THAT TELLS YOU A LOT RIGHT THERE, MORE FORMALLY THEY WERE CALLED THE INELIGIBLE VOLUNTEER FILES.
THE CONCEPT BEHIND THEM WAS THAT THEY WOULD KEEP A RECORD OF MEN WHO WERE NOT SUITABLE TO BE SCOUT LEADERS.
WE KNOW THAT THESE RECORDS GO BACK AT LEAST TO THE 1930s.
WE EXSUSPECT THEY WENT BACK EARLIER THAN THAT.
THE BOY SCOUTS ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE EARLY 1930s THEY HAD THESE FILES.
THEY CALLED THEM THEIR RED FILES AT THE TIME.
AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT WHEN WE STARTED MAKING THE FILM SHORTLY AFTER THEY ANNOUNCED THEIR BANKRUPTCY A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK, WE KNOW THAT THE LAWYERS INVOLVED AT THE TIME THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE MAYBE 7,000, 10,000, MAYBE 12,000 MEN OR BOYS AND GIRLS WHO WOULD COME FORWARD WITH ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE AS PART OF THE BANKRUPTCY CASE.
WELL, LO AND BEHOLD, EIGHT MONTHS LATER, THAT NUMBER WAS 82,000.
SO THAT'S 82,000 MEN, BOYS AND GIRLS WHO SAY THAT THEY WERE ABUSED AT THE HANDS OF SOMEONE WITHIN THE SCOUTING ORGANIZATION.
NOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THERE ARE MORE OUT THERE?
IT DOESN'T TAKE A HUGE IMAGINATION TO IMAGINE THAT THERE ARE.
IT'S VERY HARD FOR MEN.
IT'S VERY HARD FOR ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN SEXUALLY TRAUMATIZED TO COME FORWARD AND TALK ABOUT IT, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS THE PRESSURE OF A DEADLINE AND THERE WAS A LEGAL DEADLINE FOR THIS BANKRUPTCY BY WHICH YOU HAD TO FILE YOUR CASE.
I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP HERE ON HOW WIDESPREAD THE ABUSE WAS.
WHAT WE SAW WAS TROOP LEADERS BEING FOUND TO HAVE ABUSED CHILDREN AT ONE TROOP, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HERE THEY ARE POPPING UP A YEAR LATER AT ANOTHER TROOP IN A DIFFERENT STATE, AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.
SO IT WAS JUST REALLY CLEAR PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAD KNOWN FOR DECADES AND DECADES THAT THESE MEN WERE ASSAULTING THESE BOYS.
ON THIS ONE LEVEL, THEY IS A PHENOMENAL JOB OF TRACKING THEM, AND THEN ON THE OTHER HAND COMPLETELY DROPPED THE BALL ON MAKING SURE THAT THEY COULDN'T AND WOULDN'T ABUSE OTHER CHILDREN IN THE PROGRAM.
WHAT THE HELL ELSE WOULD THE FILES BE FOR?
STUART, WHEN YOU SEE THAT AND YOU REALIZE THIS WAS AN ORGANIZATION THAT WAS WORKING ALMOST TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE THAT HURT CHILDREN, THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT YOU.
YES.
IT SADDENS ME TO KNOW THAT THE BOY SCOUTS WERE SO CONCERNED AT PROTECTING LEADERS AND NOT PROTECTING YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG BOYS WHO WERE GROWING AND TRUSTED THE SCOUTING, AND IT'S AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY WHAT HAPPENED.
TO THINK BACK AS A YOUNG PERSON GROWING UP THAT NO ONE HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH ME AS A YOUNG PERSON ABOUT SAFETY AND ABOUT RIGHT AND WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED BY SOME OF THE SCOUTMASTERS.
I WANT TO READ A PART OF THE STATEMENT FROM THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA.
IT SAYS WHILE ANY INSTANCE OF ABUSE IS ONE TOO MANY, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF CLAIMS FILED IN THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION CHAPTER 11 CASE RELATE TO ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE THAT OCCURRED BEFORE OUR MODERN YOUTH PROTECTION POLICIES WERE IMPLEMENTED IN THREE DECADES AGO.
I HOPE IT DEMONSTRATES THAT WE TAKE YOUTH PROTECTION EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY.
IRENE, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH THAT, THAT STATEMENT.
THE FILES THAT CAME UP IN THE LAWSUIT, THAT'S NOT ALL OF THEM.
AND YOUR DOCUMENTARY MENTIONS THERE WERE A LARGE NUMBER OF CLAIMS THAT CAME AFTER THE SCOUTS PUT THESE YOUTH PROTECTION POLICIES IN PLACE.
THAT'S RIGHT.
AND I THINK THAT THE BOY SCOUTS HAVE MISSED A NUMBER OF OPPORTUNITIES TO STRENGTHEN THE BARRIERS FOR THESE MEN TO GET INTO THE ORGANIZATION.
AND THEY THEY ARE REALLY TRYING TO LOOK FORWARD.
THE ORGANIZATION IS TRYING TO LOOK FORWARD.
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE OBSERVED.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THOSE 82,000 MEN AND BOYS AND GIRLS, THEY HAVE TROUBLE LOOKING FORWARD BECAUSE THEY KEEP LOOKING BACK.
THIS IS THE REALITY OF SEXUAL TRAUMA.
AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF IT -- THERE IS A LOT OF RECKONING THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE WITH THE ORGANIZATION AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HOPE WITH THIS FILM THAT WE CAN DO IS JUST HAVE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IT.
I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP OF TWO YOUNG MEN, CHILDREN, THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO PROFILE FOR THIS FILM.
YOU WANTED TO BE A POLICE OFFICER.
AND HE WAS TOLD THAT GOING THROUGH THE SCOUTS AND EVERYTHING WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO DO IT.
SO THAT WAS HIS GOAL.
SHE HEARD STORIES OF ME TELLING WHAT IT WAS LIKE WHEN I WAS A SCOUT.
YEAH, I WANTED THAT FOR CHRIS.
I THRIVED INTO IT.
THEY LET NATHAN JOIN IN EVERY NOW AND THEN.
NATHAN WAS A MASCOT.
YEAH.
CHRIS HAD BEEN GOING THROUGH SUCH A HARD TIME, AND DOUG KEPT TRYING TO -- CHRIS CAN STAY WITH ME.
WE THOUGHT THAT WAS NORMAL.
HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW?
WE DIDN'T KNOW.
WE HAVE A CHILD MOLESTER TELLING US WHAT THE RULES WERE ARE, ACCORDING TO HIM THERE ARE NONE.
WHEN THOSE PARENTS FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT BOY THERE WAS A SCENE IT WAS THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE HEARING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE YOUNG MAN NEVER SPOKE ABOUT IT TO THEM.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S PROBABLY THE CASE FOR LOTS OF VICTIMS.
MY WAY INTO THIS FILM WAS I MET A SOCIAL WORKER WHOSE FULL-TIME JOB MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, EIGHT HOURS A DAY, WAS TO INTERVIEW SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL ABUSE AT THE HANDS OF A SCOUTMASTER.
FULL-TIME SQUOB.
JOB.
AND SHE TOLD ME THAT MOST OF THE MEN SHE SPOKE WITH WERE TELLING SOMEONE FOR THE FIRST TIME.
SHE SAID PEOPLE IN THEIR 80s AND EVEN IN THEIR 90s WERE CALLING HER ABOUT ABUSE THAT OCCURRED IN THE 1940s.
JUST LAST WEEK MY PRODUCING PARTNER, THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER WHO WORKED ON THE FILM WITH ME, WE GOT AN EMAIL FROM A GENTLEMAN WHO IDENTIFIED HIMSELF, TOLD US HE WAS 84 YEARS OLD, AND SAID THAT HE WAS ABUSED IN THE 1950s BY HIS SCOUTMASTER AND THAT SO MANY OF THE STORIES IN OUR FILM, WHICH HAD CHILDREN AS YOUNG AS 14, AND A MAN AS OLD AS 74, HE SAID THEIR STORIES RESONATED EXACTLY WITH HIS OWN EXPERIENCE AND HE SAID THAT AT THAT TIME IN THE 1950s HE WAS TOLD AS A YOUNG BOY IF HE WANTED TO GET AHEAD IN THE BOY SCOUTS HE WOULD FOLLOW HIS SCOUTMASTER'S WISH.
STUART, HOW DID THIS EFFECT YOU IN ALL THE YEARS BETWEEN WHEN YOU SUFFERED AT THE HANDS MUCH A PEDOPHILE AND UNTIL YOU FINALLY TALKED ABOUT IT?
WELL, GROWING UP AS A YOUNG PERSON, I GREW UP HAVING TO BE SILENT.
I GREW UP HAVING TO LIVE TWO LIVES.
I DIDN'T FEEL SAFE TO TELL ANYONE.
WHEN I GOT THE COURAGE TO TELL SOMEONE, MY MOTHER, MY FOSTER MOTHER, SHE DIED.
AND SO I HAD TO KEEP THIS BURDEN INSIDE OF ME.
IT MADE ME ANGRY.
I FELT ALONE.
I WAS AFRAID OF THE DARK.
I WAS AFRAID OF MY HOUSE THAT I GREW UP IN.
UNTIL I WENT AWAY TO COLLEGE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP ANGRY.
I GREW A FEELING THAT I WAS IN THE WORLD ALONE SOMETIMES.
AT THE SAME TIME, I HAD A COMMUNITY FROM MY CHURCH.
AND SO I WAS IN AND OUT OF BOTH WORLDS, TWO WORLDS, LIVING TWO LIVES.
YOU KNOW, THERE WERE MOMENTS THAT I THOUGHT I WAS DYING DID I THINK ABOUT SUICIDE?
OF COURSE I THOUGHT ABOUT SUICIDE.
AND BUT BECAUSE I WANTED TO HONOR MY FOSTER MOTHER AND WHAT SHE HAD DONE FOR ME, I HAD TO BUILD MY LIFE AND LIVE A LIFE AWAY FROM MY ABUSERS.
AND SO I REALIZED THAT I NEEDED TO GET HELP.
I NEEDED TO GET SOME COUNSELING AND YOU I NEEDED TO AVAIL MYSELF TO NAVIGATE AND LIVE ONE LIFE.
AND SO SPEAKING OUT AND GETTING COUNSELING AND PARTICIPATING IN EIGHT-HOUR SESSIONS.
I'M STILL IN COUNSELING.
AND I MAY COME ACROSS AS IF I'M TOGETHER, BUT I AM A HEART WARRIOR.
SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH A WAR OF INTERNAL STRIFE AND KNOWING THAT TRUE HAPPINESS COMES FROM HELPING OTHERS, IS ONE OF MY MANTRAS THAT HELPS ME NAVIGATE MY ABUSE AND BEING ABLE TO BE AVAILABLE FOR OTHERS.
STUART, DO YOU EVER WONDER ABOUT HOW YOUR LIFE WOULD BE IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED TO YOU?
YEAH.
I OFTEN THOUGHT ABOUT THAT LITTLE STUART INSIDE OF ME, THAT LITTLE BOY WHO WAS 11, 12, 13, HAD IT NOT HAPPENED TO THAT PERSON.
HOW MUCH FREER, YOU KNOW, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE DANCED MUCH MORE FREER.
I WOULD HAVE RUN, NOT HAVING TO LOOK BACK.
AND I WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, I OFTEN TALK TO THAT PERSON AND I TELL MYSELF, BECAUSE STUART, IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT AND YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
AND SO THAT LITTLE BOY WHO WASN'T, YOU KNOW, WHO WAS ABUSED, IF HE WASN'T ABUSED, WOULD HAVE HAD A CHILDHOOD.
MY CHILDHOOD WAS STOLEN FROM ME.
AND SO, YEAH.
IRENE, WHERE ARE THE BOY SCOUTS NOW WHEN IT COMES TO -- AS AN ORGANIZATION, FINANCIALLY, MEX MEMBERSHIPWISE?
WELL, JUST IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS AND IN THE LAST MONTH THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS ARTICLES ABOUT COUNCILS AROUND THE COUNTRY STARTING TO SELL OFF LAND.
WHAT THE SCOUTS ARE GOING TO NEED TO DO IS LIQUIDATE THEIR ASSETS TO PAY THEIR DEBTS, EFFECTIVELY.
THE BANKRUPTCY IS STILL IN PROCESS.
SO I THINK WE ALSO KNOW THEIR MEMBERSHIP HAS BEEN STEADILY DECLINING SINCE THE 1970s AND IT'S AT AN ALL-TIME LOW NOW.
SO I THINK THEY ARE CLEANING HOUSE, SO TO SPEAK.
BUT IT'S REALLY UNKNOWN AT THIS POINT WHAT DECISIONS THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE STILL THOUSANDS OF PERVERSION FILES HAVE NOT BEEN RELEASED AND THE SURVIVORS WHO ARE A PART OF THIS 82,000 HAVE VOTED AND THE MAJORITY OF THEM DO WANT THE SCOUTS TO RELEASE THOSE FILES AND THE SCOUTS HAVE NOT AGREED TO DO THAT.
THE SCOUTING ORGANIZATION HAS NOT ALLOWED -- HAS NOT BEEN WILLING TO DO THAT.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A VERY POWERFUL MESSAGE FOR THEM TO DEMONSTRATE TO AMERICA AND TO SURVIVORS THAT IF THEY RELEASE THOSE FILES, THAT IS THEIR WAY OF LOOKING BACK AND ACKNOWLEDGING WE STILL HAVE MORE LOOKING BACK TO DO BECAUSE THE MEN WHO ARE, HAVE ABUSERS IN THOSE FILES, THOSE FILES WILL BE VERY MEANINGFUL ON THEIR OWN JOURNEY TOWARDS HEALING.
AND IT ALSO, REMEMBER, SOME OF THESE PERPETRATORS ARE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW.
SO WE CAN ALSO STOP THOSE PERPETRATORS FROM ACCESSING MORE BOYS AND GIRLS NOW.
STUART, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT YOU CHOSE TO SPEAK OUT NOT IN AN EFFORT TO DESTROY SCOUTING, THAT YOU HAVE IN SOME WAYS REACHED A LEVEL OF FORGIVENESS.
I WONDER WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL ABUSE WHO HAVE NOT COME FORWARD, WHO ARE STILL STRUGGLING, WHO MIGHT BE IN THE SAME PLACE YOU WERE 15, 20 YEARS AGO?
SO I SAY TO THE SURVIVORS THAT IF YOU HAVE BEEN THREATENED, THEN YOU COULD STILL COME FORWARD BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL BELIEVE YOU.
AND THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
THERE IS ONE IN SIX BOYS WHO EXPERIENCED CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE BEFORE THE AGE OF 18.
AND TO REACH OUT FOR HELP, TO SEEK COUNSELING, TO BE ABLE JUST TO BE ABLE TO SAY, FIRST OF ALL, THAT I HAVE BEEN ABUSED.
AND DECIDE HOW MUCH OF THE STORY YOU ARE GOING TO TELL.
I WISH THAT EVERY BOY SCOUT AND EVERY YOUNG PERSON AND PARENT WOULD WATCH THIS FILM TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, TO REALIZE THAT BREAKING THE SILENCE CAN FEEL WORST THAN THE ABUSE ITSELF.
BUT TAKE YOUR SMALL STEPS.
SEEK THERAPY.
SEEK COUNSELING.
BEGIN THIS LONG JOURNEY WITH A TRUSTED FRIEND.
STUART LORD AND IRENE TAYLOR, THE FILM IS CALLED 'LEAVE NO TRACE' AVAILABLE ON HULU NOW.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU.
> WE REACHED OUT TO THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA FOR COMMENT ON THE HOULULU FILM AND THE CALLS M A MAJORITY OF SURVIVORS TO RELEASE FILES.
WE HAVE NOT HEARD BACK.
> WELL, IT'S DIFFICULT TO HEAR THOSE STORIES OF ABUSE.
AND FROM THE PANDEMIC TO THE COST OF LIVING CRISIS, THE BROUGHT AL WAR IN UKRAINE AND MASS SHOOTINGS IN THE U.S., THE NEWS HAS CERTAINLY BEEN OVERWHELMING AND AT TIMES DOWN RIGHT BLEAK.
MY NEXT QUGUEST TO HOPING TO HE T FIND THE LIGHT.
PSYCHOLOGIST AND BEST-SELLING AUTHOR MAYOR MATTER'S LATEST BOOK ALIVE LIFE OFFERS HOPE FOR THE DARK TYPES IN HOW TO COPE WITH CHANGE AND TRAUMA.
HERE'S OUR CONVERSATION.
MARY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
YOU BEGAN THE BOOK BY DESCRIBING HOW DIFFICULT THE PANDEMIC WAS FOR YOU AS IT WAS FOR SO MANY OF US.
WHAT LED YOU ULTIMATELY TO WRITE THIS BOOK COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC?
YEAH, FIRST OF ALL, I HADN'T PLANNED TO WRITE ANOTHER BOOK.
THIS IS MY 12th BOOK.
I WAS PRETTY HAPPY WITH THE LIFE I HAD WITHOUT WRITING.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE PANDEMIC WAS I STARTED TO FEEL A LOT OF DESPAIR AND LONELINESS.
I COULDN'T SEE MY CHILDREN AND MY GRANDCHILDREN OR MY FRIENDS.
MY HUSBAND'S A FULL-TIME MUSICIAN AND HE JUST STOPPED PLAYING MUSIC.
I STOPPED GOING TO DANCES.
AND I REALIZED THAT FIRST OF ALL I NEEDED A PROJECT AND A PROJECT I THOUGHT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO THE WORLD.
AND A PROJECT THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO ME IN TERMS OF HELPING ME FIND THE SUNLIGHT IN A VERY DARK TIME.
AND SO I CAME UPON THE IDEA OF WRITING ABOUT BOTH LITERAL AND METAPHORICAL LIGHT, BUT ESPECIALLY METAPHORICAL LIGHT IN THE SENSE I HAVE HAD A LIFE PROBABLY VERY MUCH LIKE MOST PEOPLE THAT HAS BEEN PARTLY LIGHT AND PARTLY SHADOW, AND WHEN I HAVE BEEN IN THE SHADOWS, WHEN I HAVE BEEN HAVING THE DARK TIME, I HAVE SOUGHT THE LIGHT.
I HAVE TRIED TO FIND A RESILIENT WAY TO MOVE INTO JOY AND CALMNESS.
SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT I WANTED TO RIGHT ABOUT, IS THE TIMES IN MY OWN LIFE WHEN I HAD BEEN CAPABLE OF SELF-RESCUE WITH THE HOPE THAT READERS MIGHT SEE IN THIS WAYS THEY ALSO COULD WRITE THEIR OWN LIFE IN LIGHT AND FIND WAYS TO BE MORE SKILLFUL AND ENERGETIC IN THEIR PURSUIT OF LIGHT IN A VERY DARK TIME.
YOU DESCRIBE LIGHT AS YOU JUST SAID BOTH LITERALLY AND METAPHORICALLY.
LET'S START WITH LITERALLY.
LIGHT BECAME AN IMPORTANT FACTOR IN YOUR LIFE VERY EARLY.
ONE OF YOUR FIRST MEMORIES.
CAN TALK ABOUT THAT?
AT THE AGE OF 1?
> I WAS CARRIED OUT ON TO A BLANKET IN MY GRANDMOTHER'S YARD DOWN IN THE OZARKS AND I REMEMBER -- I DON'T HAVE ANY VERBAL MEMORY FOR THIS.
I HAVE A VISUAL MEMORY FOR THIS.
I WAS LOOKING UP THROUGH A TREE AND WATCHING THE SUNLIGHT SPARKLE AND DANCE THROUGH LEAVES.
AND EVEN THOUGH I WAS A BABY AND MORE OR LESS PREVERBAL, I WAS ABSOLUTELY ENTRANCED BY THAT LIGHT.
AND I REMEMBER IT.
I STILL REMEMBER THAT EXPERIENCE.
THEN LATER IN MY LIFE I'M VERY SOLAR-POWERED PERSON.
I ENCODE MEMORY WITH LIGHT.
AND SO A LOT OF THE REAL PIVOTAL EXPERIENCES OF MY CHILDHOOD, BOTH GOOD AND BAD, HAVE LIGHT AS A CENTRAL CHARACTER.
FOR EXAMPLE, I WRITE ABOUT A TIME EARLY IN THE BOOK WHEN MY FATHER WAS IN THE KOREAN WAR.
MY MOTHER WAS IN MEDICAL SCHOOL.
MY BROTHERS AND MYSELF WERE PRETTY FERIL CHILDREN WITHOUT MUCH ADULT SUPPORT.
ON SATURDAY NIGHTS MY MOTHER WOULD DRIVE US OUT TO THE KOA FOUNTAIN OUTSIDE OF DENVER AND WE WOULD SIT ON THE HOOD OF THE CAR AND WATCH THIS COLOR WHEEL LIGHT UP THIS BEAUTIFUL SPLASHY FOUNTAIN WITH DIFFERENT COLORS.
AND MY MOTHER WOULD FALL ASLEEP IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT AND MY BROTHERS WOULD GET DOWN AND WRESTLE AROUND ON THE GROUND.
BUT I WOULDN'T LEAVE THE HOOD.
I WOULD JUST WATCH THAT LIGHT AND THEN ON THE WAY HOME I'D SHUT MY EYES AND REMEMBER THAT BEAUTY.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS WE'RE IN A VERY DARK TIME IN AMERICA.
MOST OF US ARE IN A FAIRLY DARK PLACE, IN A FAIRLY DARK PLACE NOT SO MUCH IN OUR OWN PERSONAL DAY-TO-DAY LIVES, BUT WHEN WE EXPAND BEYOND THAT, TO THE BIGGER PICTURE, AND THE ANTIDOTES FOR THE DESPAIR WE FEEL OFTENTIMES ARE JOY AND LOVE AND EVEN TRANSCENDENT EXPERIENCE.
AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH ATTITUDE, WITH ENERGY, WITH ATTENTION.
I WANT TO PICK ON THAT.
ANOTHER THEME IS IMPERMANENCE.
IT LEADS TO A PASSAGE THAT I'D LIKE TO READ FROM THE BOOK.
THE CONVERGENCE THERE OF BOTH LIGHT AND IMPERMANENCE.
AND I'M GOING TO QUOTE THIS PASSAGE AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT AFTER.
LOOKING FOR THE LIGHT DOES NOT MEAN DENYING THE DARKNESS.
I TRY NOT TO MICROMANAGE MY FEELINGS.
IF I AM HEARTBROKEN, I LET MYSELF BE HEARTBROKEN.
IF I AM SAD, ANGRY, CONFUSED OR IN DESPAIR I LOW MYSELF TO FEEL THOSE EMOTIONS.
THAT THE ONLY WAY TO BE AN HONEST AUTHENTIC PERSON.
AS I TRY TO STAY WITH PAIN, I ALSO KNOW THAT IT WILL PASS.
PAIN, LIKE ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE, IS IMPERMANENT.
HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO APPRECIATE AND REALLY, I GUESS, COME TO TERMS WITH IMPERMANENCE?
WELL, I'M NOT ENTIRELY THERE YET IN TERMS OF ACCEPTING PERMANENCE.
BUT I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I REALIZED IS FOR THESE LATTER YEARS OF MY LIFE, WHAT I REALLY NEED TO DO TO BE HAPPY IS COME TO TERMS WITH LOSS AND ACTUALLY DO SOME DETACHING FROM RELATIONSHIPS.
BECAUSE THE RELATIONSHIPS ARE COMING AND GOING AT A MUCH RAPIDER RATE NOW.
AND SO I HAVE WORKED IN A LOT OF WAYS ON THAT.
TO ME, THE GREATEST SKILLS FOR, OR THE GREATEST RESOURCES FOR COMING TO TERMS WITH IMPERMANENCE ARE MEDITATION AND BUDDHISM, WHICH BASICALLY ARE LESSONS IN ACCEPTING IMPERMANENCE AND CHANGE AND INSTEAD LIVING IN THE PRESENT MOMENT AND LIVING WITH THE BREATH.
VERY IMPORTANT SKILLS.
THEN THE OTHER THING THAT FOR ME IS EXTREMELY HELPFUL IS BEING IN THE NATURAL WORLD, WHICH IS CALMING IN ITS OWN WAY, BUT IS EVER CHANGING.
AND ESPECIALLY WHEN I'M IN DESPAIR, ONE OF MY BIG TRICKS IS I'LL GO OUT AND I'LL LIE DOWN ON THE DRIVEWAY OF MY HOUSE AND LOOK UP AT THE STARS AT NIGHT.
AND I'VE DONE THIS IN THE WINTER.
I DID IT AFTER SANDY HOOK.
I WAS IN SUCH DESPAIR THAT I FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO GROUND MYSELF IN THE WHOLE SOLAR SYSTEM TO BE ABLE TO RECOVER AND FEEL CALM.
BUT THE NATURAL WORLD IS A WONDERFUL WAY TO RESTORE A SENSE OF CALMNESS AND PRESENCE, AND JUST LATELY, SINCE UVALDE, SINCE THE SUPREME COURT DECISIONS ON ROE AND GUN RIGHTS, I HAVE BEEN GOING OUT IN THE MORNINGS AND WALKING FOR HALF AN HOUR, WALKING MEDITATION, WALKING AT SUNSET SO THAT I CAN HAVE IT BOTH ENDS OF THE DAY, AN EXPERIENCE OF PEACE AND BEAUTY.
WHEN WERE YOU FIRST INTRODUCED TO MEDITATION AND BUDDHISM?
AND HOW WAS THAT INCORPORATED INTO YOUR PROFESSIONAL WORK?
WELL, I WAS -- I CAME TO BUDDHISM QUITE LATE.
ACTUALLY, I HAD WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED 'THE MIDDLE OF EVERYWHERE' WHICH WAS A LOVE SONG TO REFUGEES.
I SENT IT OFF TO MY EDITOR IN EARLY SEPTEMBER 2001 AND TWO OR THREE DAYS LATER WERE THE 9/11 ATTACKS.
MY BOOK WAS IMMEDIATELY STALE.
ITS SHELF LIFE WAS OVER.
SO I WORKED VERY HARD TO HELP MY EDITOR SELL THAT BOOK, WAS RIDING AROUND ON PLANES AT A TIME MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TO BE ON PLANES.
I WAS AWAY FROM MY FAMILY A GREAT DEAL.
I DON'T THINK THAT WAS THE YEAR, BUT I HAD A YEAR I SLEPT IN HOTEL ROOMS SPEAKING MORE THAN I SLEPT IN MY OWN BED.
AND SOMEWHERE IN NOVEMBER THAT YEAR I JUST HIT A WALL AND I REALIZED I CAN'T DO THIS ANY MORE.
I NEED TO BE HOME.
I NEED TO BE WITH MY LANDSCAPE, MY CAT, MY HUSBAND.
AND I CAME HOME AND WHEN I READ PSYCHOLOGY, I FELT UNHEALTHY.
I FELT DEPRESSED.
I FELT ANXIOUS.
I USED THE LABEL PSYCHOLOGISTS USE TO DESCRIBE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING.
BUT WHEN I READ BUDDHISM, I FELT HUMAN.
I FELT LIKE I WAS EXPERIENCING WHAT ALL HUMANS EXPERIENCE, AND I FELT A DEEP CONNECTION WITH PEOPLE THROUGHOUT HISTORY AND PEOPLE ACROSS GEOGRAPHY THAT WERE SUFFERING.
AND ALSO I LEARNED A SET OF SKILLS THROUGH MEDITATION THAT WERE VERY USEFUL FOR ME.
I STAYED HOME FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS.
I REARRANGED MY SCHEDULE TO A CONSIDERABLE EXTENT.
AND IT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL.
IT'S WORKED VERY WELL FOR ME.
THE POSSIBILITY OF WORLD WAR, CLIMATE CHANGE, POSSIBILITY OF NUCLEAR ACCIDENTS OR WAR, THESE THINGS ARE PROFOUNDLY UPSETTING TO US HUMANS, AND WHAT HAPPENS, I THINK, TO MOST OF US IS WE DECIDE TO LIVE PRIMARILY IN OUR SMALL LIVES AND NOT FACE THE TRAUMA OF OUR LARGER LIVES.
WE CERTAINLY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT VERY MUCH BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BRING OUR FRIENDS DOWN.
WE DON'T WANT TO WALK INTO A ROOM AND CREATE DESPAIR.
BUT IT'S THERE.
AND IF WE CAN FACE IT, WE CAN WORK WITH IT.
ANYTHING THAT CAN BE FACED CAN BE WORKED WITH.
I WANT TO MAKE A FULL CIRCLE OF YOUR OWN LIFE BECAUSE WHAT REALLY STOOD OUT TO PEWAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR FAMILY AND HOW IMPORTANT THAT WAS.
YOU KNOW, GROWING UP AS THE DAUGHTER OF A WAR VETERAN WHO SUFFERED FROM PTSD, A MOTHER WHO WAS DISTANT, VERY BRIGHT BUT PERHAPS NOW ON THE SPECTRUM AND THE ONE PILAR IN YOUR LIFE, THE ONE CONSTANT, THE ONE PERSON WHO WAS THERE FOR YOU AS YOU WERE IN SEARCH OF LOVE WAS YOUR GRANDMOTHER.
PERHAPS THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST MEMORIES YOU TALK ABOUT AT THE AGE OF JUST 1.
YOU LOOKED HARD TO FIND LOVE AND YOU FOUND IT WITH HER.
YOU SAY SHE KNEW YOU AND LOVED YOU INTO EXISTENCE, LIMB THINGS ABOUT KNOWING WHAT KIND OF COOKIES THAT YOU LIKED, GAVE YOU THAT SPECIAL FEELING FOR NEEDING TO BE HERE AND YOUR EXISTENCE AS A WHOLE.
FAST FORWARD TO WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN LIKE NOW AS A MOTHER AND A GRANDMOTHER AND THE CHAPTER IN YOUR BOOK, WILL THEY REMEMBER.
I'M GOING TO READ FROM IT.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL -- IT'S A BEAUTIFUL CHAPTER HERE.
I AM JUST GOING TO QUOTE.
WILL MY GRANDCHILDREN REMEMBER HOW WHEN THEY WERE BABIES I CARRIED THEM OUTSIDE TO LOOK AT THE SKY AND THE GREEN HOW I TICKLED THEIR FACES WITH FLOWERS AND BLEW DANDELION FLUFF FOR THEM TO WATCH.
I JUST CAN'T HELP BUT THINK OF HOW YOU ARE ABLE TO COMPARTMENTALIZE AND PULL CHUNKS OF MEMORIES FROM YOUR LIFE AND HOW THAT HAS HELPED YOU BECOME THE WOMAN THAT YOU ARE NOW AND THE GRANDMOTHER THAT YOU ARE NOW.
WHAT CAN PEOPLE LEARN FROM THAT IN TERMS OF DEALING WITH THEIR OWN PAST AND THEIR OWN FUTURE?
WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT MY GRANDMOTHER TAUGHT ME WAS ININNER RESOURCES.
REALLY WHAT I BELIEVE WE ALL HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER AND AGENCY AROUND IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF INNER RESOURCES.
AND IN -- I WROTE AN OP-ED FOR 'THE NEW YORK TIMES' RECENTLY AND I MENTIONED THIS GRANDMOTHER WHO SAID THINGS TO ME LIKE, BE THE KIND OF PERSON YOU WANT TO BIFB LIVE WITH EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE.
AND ON HER DEATH BED, WHEN I ASKED HER IF SHE WAS HAPPY, SHE SAID, I DON'T THINK OF MY LIFE THAT WAY.
I ASK MYSELF, IS THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE BECAUSE I WAS ON IT?
AND SHE WAS WONDERFUL.
I DID DISHES WITH HER SO WE COULD TALK, AND I SAID VERY EARLY IN THIS EXPERIENCE OF DOING DISHES WITH MY GRANDMOTHER, LET'S DO THESE DISHES REALLY SLOWLY.
AND WE HAD BEAUTIFUL, LONG, MORAL CONVERSATIONS DURING THAT TIME.
I TRY TO TALK TO MY OWN GRANDCHILDREN WHEN I HAVE A CHANCE.
I TRY TO BE SOMEONE LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER AND TEACH THEM WHAT I KNOW.
THE OTHER GREAT INNER STRENGTHS THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACCESS TO A CERTAIN EXTENT ARE FROM PSYCHOLOGY AND THE BUSINESS OF LEARNING HOW TO FACE PAIN AND STAY WITH PAIN AND LEARN FROM IT AND FIND WAYS TO GROW FROM IT.
I LOVE HOW YOU SAID LIGHT IS YOUR INTOXICANT.
THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN ALL TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR STORY.
OBVIOUSLY, WHILE WE EMBRACE SOME OF THOSE DARK MOMENTS, TOO, THAT WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO SEARCH FOR THE LIGHT AS WELL.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THIS IS REALLY MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION.
APPRECIATE IT.
FINALLY, TWO ICONIC WOMEN IMMORTALIZED.
A STATUE OF CIVIL RIGHTS PIONEER A MARY McLEOD BETHUNE HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN UNVEILED IN THE U.S. CAPITOL STATUARY HALL.
AN EDUCATOR, OPENED A BOARDING SCHOOL FOR BLACK CHILDREN, LET VOTER REGISTRATION DRIVES FOR WOMEN IN 1920 AND SERVED AN ADVISOR TO FIVE U.S. PRESIDENTS.
HER STATUE REPLACES THAT OF A CONFEDERATE SOLDIER.
AND JANE GOODALL THE LATEST EDITION TO BAY'S WOMEN'S CHAMPION.
A NOTEBOOK AND A PAIR OF BINOCULARS WITH 9 #% OF THE DOLL MADE FROM RECYCLED PLATTICS.
HE RELEASE COINCIDES WITH THE 62nd AROUND OF JANE GOOD ALL'S FIRST TRIP TO THE FORESTS OF TANZ ME ACHT AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
REMEMBER YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' ON PBS.
JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.
> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.
SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT, TO NOT MISS WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.
AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.
MUTUAL OF AMERICA FINANCIAL GROUP, RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
YOU'RE WATCHING PBS.