April 10, 2024

♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> BIDEN UPS HIS CRITICISM OF NETANYAHU, BUT DO THE WARNINGS GET THROUGH?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS JOINS ME TO DISCUSS AMERICA'S POLITICS AT HOME AND ABROAD.

THEN -- >>> PALESTINIANS MARK THE END OF RAMADAN, BUT WITH LITTLE TO CELEBRATE.

WE HAVE A REPORT ON THE MEDICAL DISASTER UNFOLDING IN GAZA.

AND -- >> IF WE CANNOT RESPECT OUR DIFFERENCE OF APPROACH, THAT'S A PROBLEM, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE GOOD FRIDAY SPEAKS TO.

>> MAKING PEACE WITH YOUR ENEMIES.

ON THE 26th ANNIVERSARY OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT, I SPEAK TO NORTHERN IRELAND'S FIRST MINISTER, MICHELLE O'NEILL ABOUT BRIDGING THE DIVIDE.

ALSO AHEAD -- >> THERE IS AT MINIMUM AN INTERNALIZED PREJUDICE ABOUT WHO WE EXPECT TO DIE.

>> WHY THE DEATHS OF SEVEN WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN AID WORKERS IN GAZA BROKE THROUGH.

GLOBAL AFFAIRS JOURNALIST EMILY TAMKIN EXPLORES THIS WITH MICHEL MARTIN.

♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

ALL TALK, NO ACTION?

GROWING NUMBERS WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY, AS PRESIDENT BIDEN CONTINUES TO CRITICIZE ISRAEL'S WAR ON GAZA.

OPENLY CRITICIZING ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HIMSELF, IN AN INTERVIEW WITH THE SPANISH LANGUAGE NETWORK UNIVISION THAT AIRED LAST NIGHT.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> I THINK WHAT HE'S DOING IS A MISTAKE.

I DON'T AGREE WITH HIS -- I THINK IT'S OUTRAGEOUS THAT THOSE FOUR -- THREE VEHICLES WERE HIT BY DRONES.

WHAT I'M CALLING FOR IS FOR THE ISRAELIS TO JUST CALL FOR A CEASE-FIRE, ALLOW FOR THE NEXT SIX, EIGHT WEEKS, TOTAL ACCESS TO ALL FOOD AND MEDICINE GOING INTO THE COUNTRY.

>> MEANTIME, MONEY AND WEAPONS ARE CONTINUING TO FLOW TO ISRAEL, EVEN AS THE U.S.

WARNS AGAINST A RAFAH INCURSION.

MEANTIME, THE SITUATION IN GAZA, AS WE SAID, IS DIRE, WITH CHILDREN DYING FROM, QUOTE, STARVATION-RELATED COMPLICATIONS.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.

AND NEARLY 400 BODIES HAVE BEEN EXHUMED FROM MASS GRAVES IN AND AROUND THE AL SHIFA HOSPITAL.

IN THE WAKE OF OCTOBER 7th, WHEN HAMAS MURDERED 1,200 ISRAELIS AND TOOK HUNDREDS HOSTAGE, LIKE SO MANY AMERICANS, SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS SPOKE OUT IN FAVOR OF ISRAELI RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF.

BUT NOW, HE SAYS THE GOVERNMENT IS VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL LAW.

ARGUING, QUOTE, THE UNITED STATES CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE TAKING PLACE NOW.

AND SENATOR SANDERS IS JOINING THE PROGRAM FROM CAPITOL HILL.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM, SENATOR.

SO, WE'VE LAID OUT YOUR CRITICISMS, WE'VE HEARD PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CRITICISMS OF THE CURRENT MILITARY OPERATION.

WHAT IS HE DOING, THE PRESIDENT, THAT -- WHAT DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO THAT HE HASN'T DONE UP UNTIL NOW?

>> CHRISTIANE, WE ARE LOOKING RIGHT NOW IN GAZA AT ONE OF THE WORST HUMANITARIAN DISASTERS IN THE MODERN HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

AS YOU INDICATED, RIGHT NOW, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE FACE STARVATION.

CHILDREN ARE DYING FROM MALNUTRITION.

80% OF THE POPULATION HAS BEEN DISPLACED.

OVER HALF THE BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

AND ISRAEL CONTINUES TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO GET THE KIND OF HUMANITARIAN AID IN THAT DESPERATE PEOPLE NEED.

SO, TO MY MIND, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT CAN DO IS SAY TO MR. NETANYAHU, YOU KNOW WHAT?

YOU CANNOT CONTINUE THIS DISASTROUS, HORRIFIC WAR, YOU CANNOT ALLOW CHILDREN BY THE THOUSANDS TO FACE STARVATION, OR YOU'RE NOT GETTING ANOTHER NICKEL.

NOW, I THINK ONE OF THE INCONGRUITIES THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN AMERICA SEE IS, EVERYBODY IS CRITICIZING NETANYAHU, AND THEN THEY'RE SAYING IN THE NEXT WORD, OH, HERE'S ANOTHER $14 BILLION ON TOP OF THE $3.5 BILLION YOU GOT.

YOU'RE A TERRIBLE GUY, BUT HERE'S YOUR MONEY.

I THINK OUR POLICY HAS GOT TO BE VERY CLEAR.

NOT ANOTHER NICKEL FOR NETANYAHU'S RIGHT WING EXTREMIST GOVERNMENT WHILE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN GAZA FACE STARVATION.

PERIOD.

>> SENATOR, CAN I ASK YOU, WHEN YOU SAY NOT ANOTHER NICKEL, DO YOU ACTUALLY MEAN ACTUAL AID MONEY OR DO YOU MEAN THE AMERICAN WEAPONS THAT ARE NOT NICKELS AND DIMES, THEY ARE ACTUAL BOMBS AND ARTILLERY AND AMMUNITION.

>> BOTH.

BOTH.

ABSOLUTELY.

THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE SUPPLIED, AND ARE CONTINUING TO SUPPLY 2,000-POUND BOMBS, WHICH CAN WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE BLOCK, AND OTHER MILITARY AID, IS UNACCEPTABLE.

LOOK, THERE IS A TERRIBLE WAR GOING ON, WHICH VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAW, IN FACT, IT IS VIOLATING AMERICAN LAW.

AND LET ME TELL YOU HOW.

FOREIGN ASSISTANCE ACT IS VERY, VERY CLEAR.

THAT IF A COUNTRY BLOCKS AMERICAN HUMANITARIAN AID, NO MORE FUNDS FOR THAT COUNTRY.

ISRAEL HAS BLOCKED AMERICAN HUMANITARIAN AID.

SO, WHAT I AM SAYING RIGHT NOW, TALK IS CHEAP.

BUT WE CANNOT BE CRITICAL OF NETANYAHU AND HIS RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS AND THE SAME TIME GIVE THEM MONEY AND WEAPONS TO CONTINUE THIS TERRIBLE WAR.

THAT'S WHERE THE LEVERAGE IS, I SUSPECT THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS BEGINNING TO USE THAT LEVERAGE IN HIS DISCUSSIONS WITH NETANYAHU.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST WEEK IS A -- WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY, BUT AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS, THE U.N. SAYS NOW THAT OVER 200 TRUCKS GOT IN YESTERDAY, THAT IS AN IMPROVEMENT.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, YOU NEED 500 TRUCKS, YOU NEED 1,000 TRUCKS, YOU NEED THOSE TRUCKS GETTING TO THE MOST DESPERATE PARTS OF GAZA, WHERE PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY STARVING TO DEATH.

SO, WE'RE SEEING A LITTLE BIT OF AN IMPROVEMENT, BUT WE HAVE GOT TO HOLD ISRAEL ACCOUNTABLE, AND MY VIEW, THE LEVERAGE WE HAVE IS MONEY, NOT ANOTHER NICKEL UNTIL NETANYAHU CHANGES HIS ENTIRE POLICY.

>> OKAY, SO, TELL ME HOW THAT WORKS, BECAUSE IN AMERICA, WE HAVE THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, YOU ARE PART OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THIS, I THINK, IS -- IS MANDATED BY CONGRESS, AND APPROVALS IN AID PACKAGES, AND AS YOU SAID, THE LAW STATES THAT THIS AMOUNT OF AID AND STUFF CANNOT GO IN CERTAIN CONDITIONS, BUT ON MARCH 25th, THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAID THEY FOUND NO VIOLATIONS MADE BY ISRAEL EITHER WHEN IT COMES TO THE CONDUCT OF THE WAR OR THE PROVISION OF HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

NOW, CLEARLY, YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, BUT WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT?

>> LOOK, THIS IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

YOU CAN'T GO AROUND CRITICIZING NETANYAHU, WHO CLEARLY, CLEARLY, THE LANGUAGE IS CLEAR, IS IN VIOLATION OF AMERICAN LAW, AND THEN TO SAY, WE HAVE NOT FOUND ANY REASONS TO DENY AID.

THAT IS NONSENSE.

AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS GOT TO CHANGE ITS TUNE BIG-TIME.

>> WHAT'S THE PROCESS, THEN?

>> OKAY.

>> WHAT IS THE PROCESS, AND WHAT WILL BE THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMEL'S BACK?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STRAW WILL BE, BUT HERE'S WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE IS A SUPPLEMENTAL BILL THAT PASSED THE SENATE AGAINST MY VOTE, I THINK, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I WAS THE ONLY MEMBER OF THE SENATE TO VOTE AGAINST THAT SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF $14 BILLION IN THERE GOING TO ISRAEL, INCLUDING $10 BILLION FOR UNFETTERED MILITARY AID.

ANOTHER AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WENT TO THE DEFENSE FOR THE IRON DOME, WHICH I CAN LIVE WITH.

BUT THE IDEA OF GIVING NETANYAHU ANOTHER $10 BILLION TO CONTINUE THIS WAR SEEMS TO ME TO BE TOTALLY ABSURD.

THAT BILL IS NOW IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

GOD KNOWS WHAT GOES ON IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, IF THEY'RE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING.

BUT THAT IS WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES IN THE HOUSE WILL SAY, NO, ISRAEL DOES NOT DESERVE ANOTHER NICKEL AT THIS POINT.

>> AND SO, SENATOR, AS YOU KNOW, THE MAJOR AMOUNT OF MONEY IS DESTINED FOR, I THINK YOU AGREE WITH THIS, UKRAINE'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO, IF WHAT YOU HOPE HAPPENS HAPPENS, DOES THAT MEAN UKRAINE IS LEFT IN LIMBO AGAIN, UNABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST THE INCREASING SHELLING AND GRABBING OF TERRITORY BY RUSSIA?

>> YOU'VE ASKED A VERY, VERY GOOD QUESTION.

I FULLY SUPPORT AID TO UKRAINE AND UKRAINE'S RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST PUTIN'S HORRIBLE WAR THAT HE'S WAGING AGAINST THE PEOPLE THERE.

IN MY VIEW, THOSE ISSUES SHOULD BE SEPARATED.

I BELIEVE WE SHOULD PROVIDE SIGNIFICANT AID TO UKRAINE, TO STOP RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE SUPPLYING AID TO NETANYAHU'S RIGHT WING EXTREMIST GOVERNMENT.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE RHETORIC AND THE -- WHAT YOU'RE EXPRESSING, WHICH OTHER DEMOCRATIC SENATORS ARE FEELING, AND MANY, MANY AMERICAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING DEMOCRATIC VOTERS.

SO, YOU RECENTLY TOLD MSNBC, NETANYAHU SHOULD, QUOTE, STOP MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE.

YOU'VE CALLED AND TALKED AND CRITICIZED HIS, QUOTE, WAR MACHINE.

THIS IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT LANGUAGE THAT AMERICAN POLITICIANS HAVE EVER USED ABOUT ANY ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, AND YOU YOURSELF ARE A JEWISH PERSON, A JEWISH SENATOR.

ALONG WITH SENATOR SCHUMER, WHO ARE CALLING FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

BUT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BELIEVE, AND I'M GOING TO READ YOU FROM THE LATEST PEW REPORT, THAT ACTUALLY 62% OF AMERICAN JEWS SAY THE WAY ISRAEL IS CARRYING OUT THE WAR IS ACCEPTABLE, EVEN YOUNGER JEWISH VOTERS SAY IT'S ACCEPTABLE, 52%.

SO, AGAIN, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, IS IT IN TUNE WITH NOT ONLY YOUR MORAL VIEWS, BUT THOSE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND THE JEWISH -- THE JEWISH AMERICANS?

>> WELL, I'M VERY PROUD TO BE JEWISH, BUT WE ARE A VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION.

THE POLLING IS PRETTY CLEAR.

THE LAST POLL THAT I SAW, BY A PRETTY GOOD MARGIN, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SAYING NO MORE MILITARY AID TO NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT.

NO MORE FINANCING THAT WAR.

POLL AFTER POLL SHOWS VERY STRONG DISAPPROVAL OF THE BEHAVIOR OF THE ISRAELI MILITARY UNDER NETANYAHU.

SO, I THINK IN THE BEGINNING, AS YOU INDICATED, LOOK, HAMAS IS A TERRIBLE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT KILLED 1,200 INNOCENT PEOPLE AND STARTED THIS WAR.

AND I THINK YOU HAD ALMOST UNIVERSAL SYMPATHY FOR THE PLACE ISRAEL FOUND ITSELF IN, BUT MONTHS LATER, AFTER THIS HORRIFIC WAR THAT NETANYAHU IS WAGING, THAT SENTIMENT IN THIS COUNTRY IS CHANGING.

>> AND SENATOR, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE ELECTION COMING UP IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS RERUNNING WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

DO YOU BELIEVE, GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED IN SOME OF THE PRIMARIES, THE PROTEST VOTE, THAT THIS WAR WILL HURT PRESIDENT BIDEN AT THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER?

>> YES, I DO.

I'M STRONGLY SUPPORTING PRESIDENT BIDEN, I'M PROUD OF THE WORK HE HAS DONE IN MANY AREAS.

HE AND I HAVE WORKED TOGETHER ON TRYING TO LOWER THE COST OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WITH SOME SUCCESS.

WE'RE REBUILDING THE INFRASTRUCTURE, WE'RE REBUILDING MANUFACTURING.

WE'RE STRONGLY DEFENDING WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CONTROL THEIR OWN BODIES, TRYING TO END BIGOTRY, WHICH EXISTS IN THIS COUNTRY.

I THINK THE CHOICE IS VERY, VERY CLEAR.

I THINK TRUMP WILL BE A DISASTER, IF ELECTED FOR THIS COUNTRY, A VERY DANGEROUS PERSON WHO IS UNDERMINING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY EVERY DAY.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I THINK IN TERMS OF HOW YOUNG PEOPLE, HOW PEOPLE OF COLOR FEEL ABOUT THE PRESIDENT, THIS IS BEING NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY THE SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL THAT HE HAS SHOWN.

I THINK THAT'S GOT TO CHANGE.

AND WE'RE DOING OUR BEST TO TRY TO GET THAT TO CHANGE.

>> LET ME JUST PIVOT A LITTLE BIT TO DOMESTIC POLITICS, OF COURSE, BECAUSE YOU ARE, OBVIOUSLY, SO INVOLVED, YOU HAVE BEEN A TWO-TIME PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, AND YOU KNOW EXACTLY THE LAY OF THE LAND, SO -- YOU'VE MENTIONED PRESIDENT TRUMP, HE, AS YOU KNOW, SEEMS TO BE CAUGHT BETWEEN HIS OWN ROCK AND HIS OWN HARD PLACE ABOUT ABORTION.

NOW, HE STARTED THE BACKLASH, HAVING NOMINATED VERY, VERY CONSERVATIVE JUDGES WHO ROLLED BACK ROE VERSUS WADE, AND NOW HE'S SAYING THAT THE LATEST DECISION BY THE COURTS, WHICH PRESUMABLY ARE INDEPENDENT, IN ARIZONA, THAT GO BACK 160 YEARS IN TERMS OF ABORTION RIGHTS, OR NO ABORTION RIGHTS, HE SAYS THAT'S A MISTAKE AND WE'RE GOING TO STRAIGHTEN IT OUT.

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT IS YOUR COMMENT ON THAT?

>> CHRISTIANE, THE DIFFICULTY WE HAVE IN TRYING TO RESPOND TO TRUMP, AND I SAY THIS IN A SENSE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, HE'S A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, SO, WHAT HE SAYS TODAY IS NOT WHAT HE WILL SAY TOMORROW, HE WILL LIE ABOUT VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING.

LOOK, TRUMP BOASTS -- HE BOASTS THAT HE APPOINTED THREE RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WHO OVERTURNED ROE V. WADE.

HE MAY -- I THINK HE IS CATCHING ONTO THE REALITY THAT THAT IS BACKFIRING WITHIN THE GENERAL POPULATION.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO GO BACK 50 YEARS, WOMEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAVE FOUGHT TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL THEIR OWN BODY, FOUGHT FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS, AND OVERWHELMINGLY, NOT ONLY VIRTUALLY ALL DEMOCRATS, BUT MANY REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, THIS IS ABSURD, TO TAKE AWAY BASIC RIGHTS THAT WOMEN HAVE WON.

SO, I THINK HE'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A POLITICAL POSITION.

BUT ANYONE WHO WOULD TRUST DONALD TRUMP ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS REALLY DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHERE HE IS COMING FROM OR WHAT HE STANDS FOR.

>> AND WHERE DO YOU THINK THE PEOPLE WILL STAND IN THE ELECTIONS ON -- IN NOVEMBER?

ON THIS ISSUE?

>> OH, I THINK IT WORKS VERY WELL FOR DEMOCRATS.

I THINK YOU'RE SEEING SOME MODERATE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, I MAY NOT LIKE JOE BIDEN, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, I AM NOT GOING TO VOTE TO MAKE SURE THAT MY DAUGHTER MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CONTROL HER OWN BODY.

AND I THINK WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN STATE ELECTION AFTER STATE ELECTION IS WHEN STATES GO FORWARD WITH DRACONIAN ABORTION LAWS, IT ENDS UP BACKFIRING ON THEM.

SO, I THINK POLITICALLY, IT'S A GOOD ISSUE FOR DEMOCRATS, BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY ISSUE.

THE ISSUE THAT WE NEED, IN MY MIND, IN ADDITION TO ABORTION, IN ADDITION TO CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT RESONATES VERY STRONGLY, ESPECIALLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE, WE NEED TO MAKE CLEAR TO THE WORKING CLASS OF THIS COUNTRY THAT TRUMP IS GOING TO GIVE MASSIVE TAX BREAKS TO BILLIONAIRES, HE'S GOING TO APPOINT ANTI-LABOR OFFICIALS TO THE GOVERNMENT, MAKING IT HARDER FOR WORKERS TO FORM UNIONS.

SO, WE NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERY AMERICAN IN THIS COUNTRY THAT DEMOCRATS ARE PREPARED TO TAKE ON BIG MONEY INTERESTS, NO TAX BREAKS FOR BILLIONAIRES, AND PROTECT THE INTERESTS OF WORKING FAMILIES.

>> OKAY, SO, THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

AS WE ALL KNOW, PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS THE FIRST SITTING PRESIDENT TO GO TO A PICKET LINE, THE UAW.

YOU, I THINK, ACCOMPANIED HIM.

HIS FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF IS SAYING, THOUGH, THAT INSTEAD OF HIS CAMPAIGN LOOKING BACK AND TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, BOAST OR WHATEVER, GET CREDIT FOR THEIR -- FOR THEIR, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT THEY'VE DONE ALREADY, THEY'VE GOT TO BLOOM FORWARD AND LOOK AT THE ECONOMY GOING FORWARD.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> 100%.

LOOK, BIDEN HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE CREDIT FOR A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT INITIATIVES.

AND HE SHOULD.

SHOULD BE PROUD OF WHAT HE'S ACCOMPLISHED.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IN AMERICA TODAY, AND THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME, YOU GOT A WORKING CLASS WHICH IS REALLY HURTING.

60% OF OUR PEOPLE LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE ALL OVER AMERICA WHO CANNOT AFFORD THE RISING COSTS OF HOUSING.

YOU HAVE A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WHICH IS BROKEN AND DYSFUNCTIONAL.

WE PAY TWICE AS MUCH PER CAPITA FOR HEALTH CARE AS PEOPLE OF ANY OTHER COUNTRY, AND YET 85 MILLION AMERICANS ARE UNINSURED OR UNDERINSURED.

OUR CHILD CARE SYSTEM IS A DISASTER, PEOPLE DON'T HAVE PENSIONS.

SO, WE HAVE ENORMOUS PROBLEMS.

AND IN MY MIND, THE PRESIDENT, YES, SHOULD TAKE CREDIT FOR WHAT HE HAS ACCOMPLISHED, BUT HE'S GOT TO LOOK TO THE FUTURE AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I UNDERSTAND THE PAIN THAT WORKING FAMILIES ARE EXPERIENCING, AND I AM GOING TO PASS A, B, C, AND D, STRONG LEGISLATION.

I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE HEALTH CARE IS A HUMAN RIGHT, THAT WE SHOULD GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE TO ALL PEOPLE.

I THINK IT'S ABSURD WE'RE PAYING TEN TIMES MORE FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS AS THE PEOPLE IN CANADA OR IN EUROPE.

I THINK IT'S CRAZY WE PAY CHILD CARE WORKERS TERRIBLE WAGES, PEOPLE CAN'T FIND SLOTS, IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE.

I THINK IT'S ABSURD THAT WE HAVE MILLIONS OF YOUNG PEOPLE LEAVING SCHOOL DEEPLY IN DEBT.

BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU GOT A COUNTRY AND AN ECONOMY TODAY THAT IS WORKING REALLY, REALLY, REALLY GOOD FOR BILLION NARPS AND THE 1%, NOT WORKING FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS OR THE WORKING CLASS OF THIS COUNTRY.

AND THE PRESIDENT UNDERSTANDS THAT.

BUT HE'S GOT TO GET OUT IN FRONT AND SAY, LOOK, THIS IS MY AGENDA.

WE'RE GOING TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO A LIVING WAGE, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR WORKERS TO SUPPORT UNIONS, WE'RE GOING TO DO AWAY WITH STUDENT DEBT, AND HE'S MAKING SOME PROGRESS ON THAT.

BUT YOU NEED AN AGENDA THAT SPEAKS TO THE PAIN OF WORKING FAMILIES WHO TOO OFTEN HAVE FELT NEGLECTED, WHICH IS WHY TRUMP IS GAINING SUPPORT FROM THEM.

>> SO, AT 82 YEARS OLD, YOU ARE A LEADER OF THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES, IN CONGRESS, AND YOU SPEAK VERY LOUDLY FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY LOVE YOU.

YOU HAVEN'T DECLARED WHETHER YOU ARE GOING TO RUN AGAIN IN NOVEMBER.

ARE YOU GOING TO?

>> WELL, CHRISTIANE, THE MEDIA ASKS ME THAT QUESTION EVERY DAY, PEOPLE IN VERMONT DO NOT LIKE NEVER ENDING ELECTIONS.

AND BY THE WAY, IN A CORRUPT POLITICAL SYSTEM, WHERE BILLIONAIRES DOMINATE, ANOTHER PROBLEM WE HAVE IS ELECTIONS NEVER END, ALL RIGHT?

I WILL ANNOUNCE WHAT I'M GOING TO DO DOING AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME, PERIOD.

>> OKAY, SO, VERY QUICKLY, THAT'S YOUR RIGHT, OF COURSE, WHAT ABOUT THE ARSON ATTACK ON ONE OF YOUR OFFICES IN VERMONT?

IS THAT A BROADER PICTURE OF THE DYSFUNCTION AND THE DIVISIONS?

>> WELL, I CAN'T GIVE YOU THE ANSWER, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE MOTIVES OF THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL.

IT WAS A TERRIBLE THING.

HE SPRAYED LIGHTER FLUID OR WHATEVER IT IS ON THE FLOOR, IT COULD HAVE BEEN A REAL TRAGEDY.

WE HAD SEVEN PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE AT THAT TIME, THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE IN THAT BUILDING, IT COULD HAVE BEEN A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.

THE LOCAL, STATE, FEDERAL POLICE DID A GREAT JOB.

THEY ARRESTED A SUSPECT LITERALLY 30 HOURS AFTER THE EVENT.

BUT IT DOES SPEAK -- IT DOES SPEAK TO THE KIND OF DIVISIVENESS THAT WE SEE IN THIS COUNTRY, THE KIND OF HATRED THAT'S OUT THERE, THE KIND OF RECKLESSNESS THAT'S OUT THERE.

LOOK, IN AMERICA, WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.

WE DON'T HAVE TO HATE EACH OTHER.

WE DON'T HAVE TO -- AND, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE TO BE THINKING ABOUT VIOLENCE, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE ABOUT.

>> SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND NOW, TODAY, IN AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD, MUSLIMS ARE CELEBRATING EID AL FITR, MAKING THE END OF THE HOLY MONTH OF RAMADAN.

IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CELEBRATIONS IN THE ISLAMIC CALENDAR.

FAMILIES AND FRIENDS COME TOGETHER TO BREAK THEIR FAST AND TO PRAY, BUT IN GAZA, AS WE KNOW, PALESTINIANS ARE UNDER FIRE AND STRUGGLING TO FIND FOOD THIS EID.

FAMILIES HAVE BEEN BOMBED OUT OF THEIR HOMES, AND THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE.

CORRESPONDENT PAULA HANCOCKS REPORTS ON THE AMERICAN DOCTORS WHO ARE VOLUNTEERING AT ONE OF THE FEW REMAINS HOSPITALS, AND AS USUAL, WE WARN YOU ABOUT THE AWFUL REALITY WITHIN.

>> Reporter: A 9-YEAR-OLD GIRL CRIES OUT, "IT HURTS, IT HURTS."

THE DOCTOR HOLDS HER HAND AS SHE LIES ON THE FLOOR, AND TELLS HER IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY.

THERE'S NO PAIN MEDICATION FOR HER BURNS AND SHRAPNEL WOUNDS.

HE TELLS HER TO PRAY.

NEARBY, ANOTHER DOCTOR TRIES TO SAVE ONE OF HIS OWN.

PERFORMING CPR ON A PARAMEDIC WHO WAS INJURED BY ISRAELI ARTILLERY FIRE.

HIS HEART EVENTUALLY RESTARTS -- ONE LIFE SAVED AMID SO MUCH LOSS.

HIS LONGER-TERM CHANCES OF SURVIVAL IN A DECIMATED MEDICAL SYSTEM ARE UNCLEAR.

THESE DOCTORS ARE AMERICAN, VOLUNTEERS ON A WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION COORDINATED MISSION TO THE NORTH OF GAZA, DESPERATE TO HELP IN AN EVERMORE HELPLESS CRISIS.

>> SITUATION HERE IS INTENSE, IT'S CATASTROPHIC.

I REALLY -- WORDS ARE HARD TO DESCRIBE WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MASS CASUALTY EVENTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN WITH LIMITED STAFF, LIMITED -- OVERWORKED STAFF, HUNGRY STAFF, ALL WORKING, WHO HAVE BEEN DISPLACED FROM HOMES AND THEY'RE SITTING HERE IN THE E.R.

TRYING TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN.

>> Reporter: THIS IS A HOSPITAL IN THE NORTH, ONE OF THE FEW HOSPITALS STILL OPEN, ALTHOUGH BARELY FUNCTIONAL.

>> THIS MORNING, WE WOKE UP AND FOUND OUT THAT FOUR PATIENTS DIED IN THE ICU.

ONE OF THEM WAS ABOUT 10 YEARS OLD, AND THE MOM -- THE MOM JUST REFUSED TO -- REFUSED TO LEAVE THE CHILD'S BEDSIDE.

REFUSED TO BELIEVE THAT THE CHILD WAS DEAD, REFUSED TO LET THE STAFF COVER HER UP.

THE CHILD DIED OF MALNUTRITION AND DEHYDRATION.

>> Reporter: PATIENTS HERE LIE ON THE FLOOR IN THEIR OWN BLOOD.

ELECTRICITY RELIES ON SOLAR PANELS.

THE FUEL RAN OUT SOME TIME AGO.

THE HOSPITAL'S DIRECTOR SAYS VOLUNTEER SPECIALISTS TRAVELING INTO GAZA ARE A MASSIVE HELP AMID A SHRINKING MEDICAL STAFF.

CLOSE TO 500 MEDICAL PERSONAL HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

NEARLY 300 OTHERS HAVE BEEN DETAINED BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY, ACCORDING TO GAZA HEALTH AUTHORITIES.

A U.N.-BACKED REPORT HAD WASHED FAMINE COULD HIT NORTHERN GAZA ANY TIME BETWEEN NOW AND MAY.

UNDER U.S. PRESSURE, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCED LAST WEEK IT WOULD REOPEN THE ERES CROSSING TO ALLOW HUMANITARIAN GOODS TO REACH THE AREA.

THOSE PLANS HAVE SINCE BEEN DELAYED, ACCORDING TO AN ISRAELI OFFICIAL.

SHATTERING WHAT WAS A SMALL BUT NEEDED GLIMMER OF HOPE.

>> THESE PEOPLE, THEY JUST NEED HELP.

THEY JUST WANT THIS TO STOP.

NOBODY DISCUSSES POLITICS HERE.

THEY JUST TALK ABOUT FOOD AND WATER AND SHELTER AND THEY JUST WANT THE WAR TO END.

>> Reporter: AS THE WAR ENTERS ITS SEVENTH MONTH, THE INJURED MUST BE WONDERING IF ANYONE IS HEARING THEIR CRIES FOR HELP.

>> PAULA HANCOCKS REPORTING THERE.

>>> AMONG WORLD LEADERS MAKING THEIR POSITIONS CLEAR ON THIS CRISIS IS IRELAND'S NEW PRIME MINISTER.

SIMON HARRIS, WHO ADDRESSED IT IN HIS FIRST SPEECH THIS WEEK.

>> IN GAZA, WE ARE WITNESSING A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE AND CHILDREN MASSACRES.

WE CAN NO BE SILENT ON THE DISPROPORTIONATE REACTION.

AND AS A COUNTRY, WE WILL PLAY OUR PART IN HELPING BRING ABOUT CEASE-FIRE AND A LASTING PEACE.

>> NOW, NORTHERN IRELAND, OF COURSE, OFFERS A HOPEFUL EXAMPLE THAT PEACE IS POSSIBLE.

ON THIS DAY 26 YEARS AGO, THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT BROUGHT AN END TO DECADES OF CONFLICT THERE.

AND IT REQUIRED COMMUNITIES TO MAKE EXTRAORDINARY SACRIFICES FOR THE SAKE OF PEACE.

THE AGREEMENT ALSO ESTABLISHED A NEW GOVERNMENT, WITH POWER EQUALLY SHARED BETWEEN PRO-BRITAIN UNIONISTS AND IRISH NATIONALISTS.

NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MODERN HISTORY, THE NATIONALIST PARTY SINN FEIN HOLDS THE TOP JOB, WITH MICHELLE O'NEILL AS FIRST MINISTER.

TWO MONTHS ON, SHE AND UNIONIST DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER HAVE TAKEN BOLD STEPS TO MAINTAIN A UNITED FRONT.

BUT IT'S NOT WITHOUT CHALLENGES.

THE HEAD OF THE DEMOCRATIC UNIONIST PARTY, JEFFREY DONALDSON, AN EVER-PRESENT FEATURE ON THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE, HAS STEPPED DOWN, THAT WAS TWO WEEKS AGO, AFTER BEING CHARGED WITH HISTORIC SEX OFFENSES.

NOW, LEADERS THERE ARE LOOKING TO REASSURE THAT THERE IS STABILITY AT THE POWER SHARING BUILDING.

AND FIRST MINISTER MICHELLE O'NEILL JOINS ME NOW.

I HOPE I PRONOUNCED THAT RIGHT.

MICHELLE O'NEILL, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHRISTIANE, AND YES, YOU HAVE SAID IT CORRECTLY, AND THE PEOPLE WILL BE GLAD TO HEAR IT.

>> VERY GOOD.

NOW, LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE A THING OR TWO, MORE THAN THAT, TO BE AN EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY, MARKING 26 YEARS SINCE THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT, AND ALL THE PAIN THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, CAUSED TO GET THERE, TO THE LEADERS OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINE RIGHT NOW?

>> AS YOU HAVE REFLECTED, WE HAVE 26 YEARS OF SUCCESSFUL PEACE PROCESS THAT ONLY CAME ABOUT BY DIALOGUE, NEGOTIATION, BY ALL VOICES BEING AROUND THAT TABLE, AND ACTUALLY HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW YOU CAN END CONFLICT AND MOVE FORWARD.

I AND MANY LIKE ME ARE SO GRATEFUL FOR THE GIFT OF PEACE THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN WITH OUR GOOD FRIDAY ACCORD.

AND WE HAVE MUCH TO CELEBRATE.

WE'RE A SOCIETY THAT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED OVER THE COURSE OF OUR PEACE PROCESS.

AND WE HAVE MUCH, MUCH MORE TO DO, OF COURSE, BUT NOBODY COULD FAULT AT ALL THE TRANSFORMATION OF NORTHERN IRELAND, FROM 1990 TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

AND I THINK UNFORTUNATELY, WE TOO, KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE COST OF CONFLICT, BUT WE EQUALLY KNOW THE VALUE OF PEACE.

AND I THINK WHAT WE WATCH EVERY DAY IN TERMS OF THE FOOTAGE YOU'VE SHOWN IS HORRIFIC.

SIX MONTHS ON, THIS SLAUGHTER CONTINUES, SIX MONTHS ON, WE NEED TO SEE AN IMMEDIATE CEASE-FIRE.

WE NEED TO SEE DIALOGUE.

WE NEED TO SEE HUMANITARIAN AID, MEDICAL AID.

WE NEED TO SEE A POLITICAL SOLUTION, BECAUSE WHAT'S HAPPENED DAILY, THE BOMBARDMENT, THE GENOCIDE, IN TERMS OF PEOPLE OF PALESTINE AND GAZA, IS JUST HORRENDOUS.

SO, IF WE HAVE TO OFFER ANYTHING, I THINK IT IS THE VALUE OF DIALOGUE, THE VALUE OF BEING ABLE TO FIND THAT SOLUTION THAT WE ALL -- THAT EVERYBODY CAN SAY ENOUGH TO, AND ULTIMATELY, FOR ME, WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN TERMS OF PALESTINE AND THE MIDDLE EAST, WHAT I WANT TO SEE IS A POLITICAL SOLUTION THAT ALLOWS THE LONG TALE OF OPPRESSION TO SEND, THIS HORRIFIC CHAPTER OF WHAT'S HAPPENED TO PALESTINE.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, BECAUSE IT ALWAYS COMES UP THERE, BUT IT WAS ALSO TRUE WHERE YOU ARE, AND THAT IS THAT IT IS ESSENTIALLY THE ARMED FACTIONS WHO ALSO HAVE TO BUY IN.

PEOPLE WHO MAYBE FROM THE OUTSIDE ARE CALLED TERRORISTS, WHETHER IT'S HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE EAST, OR WHETHER IT HAPPENED IN NORTHERN IRELAND.

BELIEVE, NATIONALISTS AND IRA CONNECTIONS AND TIES.

THE -- YOUR DEPUTY ALSO HAD THOSE KINDS OF CONNECTIONS IN THE -- ON THE OTHER SIDE.

YOU KNOW, THE FIGHTERS, THERE WAS JAIL, THERE WAS ALL OF THIS.

TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES FOR EVEN -- EVEN THAT WING, EVEN THOSE GROUPS, NOT JUST THE POLITICAL LEADERS, TO BUY IN AND TO BE BROUGHT INTO A PEACE PROCESS.

>> I THINK THAT WE ALL WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT THE SUCCESS OF ANY PEACE PROCESS MEANS THAT EVERYBODY'S VOICE HAS TO BE AT THE ABLE.

THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE GOING TO FIND A SOLUTION.

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSPECTIVES THAT PEOPLE HAVE, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IN ORDER FOR THERE TO BE A SOLUTION THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO BUY INTO THAT.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M LUCKY, I CONSIDER MYSELF PART OF THE AGREEMENT GENERATION, AS IS THE DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER IN THE JOINT OFFICE WITH ME.

WE BOTH CONSIDER OURSELVES LUCKY THAT WE WERE BORN AT A TIME WHENEVER WE'VE BEEN GIFTED THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT, AND OUR JOB NOW IS THE LEADERS TODAY, 26 YEARS ON, AFTER THAT PROCESS, AND REMEMBER, I THINK THIS IS A REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, IT'S A PROCESS, IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ON ONE DAY.

AND WE HAVE AN ACCORD AND THAT'S GREAT.

YOU HAVE TO KEEP WORKING AT IT.

AND WE EVEN TOO HERE HAVE TO KEEP WORKING AT IT.

I'M VERY, VERY GLAD THAT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE TODAY, I'M VERY GLAD THAT WE ARE THAT GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT GENERATION.

TODAY'S WORLD IS A VERY CHANGING PLACE, THE PLACE THAT WE CALL HOME IN 1980 WHEN THAT AGREEMENT WAS STRUCK AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY IS A VERY, VERY DIFFERENT PICTURE, AND I'M GLAD FOR THAT.

BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP WORKING AT IT, AND DIALOGUE IS CRUCIAL, I THINK.

>> AND I DO REMEMBER HAVING COVERED IT, EVEN RIGHT AFTER IT WAS SIGNED, THAT VERY SUMMER, THERE WAS ANOTHER TERRIBLE TERRORIST ATTACK, WHICH THREATENED TO DERAIL IT, BUT EVERYBODY GOT TOGETHER IN NORTHERN IRELAND, ALL THE PARTIES, TO MAKE SURE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

TO THAT POINT, I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY A SOUND BYTE FROM YOUR DEPUTY, AS I SAY, UNIONIST POLITICIAN, WHO IS YOUR DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER.

>> THERE ARE MOMENTS IN EACH OF OUR LIVES THAT SHAPE US.

THE PAST WITH ALL ITS HORROR CAN NEVER BE FORGOTTEN, NOR WILL IT BE ALLOWED TO BE REWRITTEN.

BUT WHILE WE ARE SHAPED BY THE PAST, WE ARE NOT DEFINED BY IT.

THE EXPERIENCE OF MY CHILDHOOD GAVE ME THE DRIVE AND DESIRE TO MAKE A DIFFERENT FUTURE, NOT JUST FOR MYSELF, BUT TO DO ALL THAT I COULD AND CAN TO ENSURE A BETTER FUTURE FOR ALL OF US.

>> SO, YOU ARE BOTH OF THE SAME GENERATION, AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE THE YOUNGER GENERATION, LET'S FACE IT.

AND IT APPEARS TO BE, YOU KNOW, INCREASING DESIRE AND MODERATION BY NORTHERN IRELAND YOUNG PEOPLE, WHO MAYBE WANT MORE THAN JUST THE BINARY TWO PARTIES THAT IS MANDATED, I KNOW, BY THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT.

TALK TO ME ABOUT HOW PEOPLE AND THEIR POLITICS MAY BE CHANGING ON BOTH SIDES.

>> WELL, I THINK WHEN YOU LISTEN TO WHAT EMMA REFLECTED THERE, SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S EMMA'S LIVED EXPERIENCE.

AND I HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT LIVED EXPERIENCE.

SO, I THINK ALL THOSE THINGS HELP TO SHAPE THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE TODAY.

EMMA EQUALLY HAS A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK IN TERMS OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION ON IRELAND.

EMMA IS OF A BRITISH IDENTITY, THE UNIONIST TRADITION, I'M OF AN IRISH REPUBLICAN IDENTITY, I WANT TO UNITE IRELAND.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, OUR PEACE PROCESS SAYS THAT OUR ARRANGEMENT IS WHEN WE COME TOGETHER AND WE WORK TOGETHER FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF PEOPLE ON THE DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.

AND I AND EMMA ARE COMMITTED TO THAT.

I BELIEVE BOTH OF US WANT TO DO OUR VERY BEST FOR THE PEOPLE WE COLLECTIVELY SERVED.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE CAN DO THAT AND PURSUE OUR POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS.

WE BOTH HAVE VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS, BUT WE'RE IN A SPACE WHERE WE HAVE TO BE COMFORTABLE ENOUGH IN OUR OWN SKIN AND WHO WE ARE, AND I RESPECT THAT EMMA IS DIFFERENT THAN ME, AND SHE CAN RESPECT THAT I AM DIFFERENT TO HER.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LET'S PURSUE OUR GOALS WITH DIALOGUE, LET'S PURSUE OUR GOALS WITH POLITICAL ARGUMENTS, LET'S CONVINCE PEOPLE -- THAT'S THE PRECIOUS GIFT OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT, THAT WE WERE ALL -- THE ONLY TIME THE CONSTITUTION POSITION WILL CHANGE ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND IS WHEN THE PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR THAT.

SO, I THINK THAT THERE'S CHANGE HAPPENING ALL AROUND US, AND I DO THINK THAT WE'RE A VERY CHANGING PLACE.

IN NORTH OF IRELAND, NORTHERN IRELAND, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT.

BUT WE ARE CERTAINLY CHANGING.

WE HAVE A VERY DIVERSE SOCIETY, SOMETHING TO BE CELEBRATED, AND I THINK THERE'S CHANGE HAPPEN RIGHT ACROSS THE ISLAND THAT IS QUITE EXCITING IN TERMS OF WHERE WE'RE HEADED, WHERE WE WILL BE IN THE NEXT 5, 10, 15 YEARS.

MY OWN POSITION TAKING UP THE POST OF FIRST MINISTER, THE FIRST NATIONALIST TO TAKE UP THE POST, IS SOMETHING THAT WAS UNIMAGINABLE TO MY PARENTS AND TO MY GRANDPARENTS AND TO GENERATIONS BEFORE THEM.

AND THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES IN TERMS OF THE CHANGE.

BUT FOR ME PERSONALLY, IN MY ROLE AS FIRST MINISTER, IT'S WHAT I INTEND TO DO WITH THAT IS IMPORTANT TO ME, AND FOR ME, EVEN AS AN IRISH REPUBLICAN, I CAN BE TRUE TO WHO I AM, BUT I CAN SERVE EVERYBODY EQUALLY AND I'M DETERMINED TO DO THAT, TO BUILD A BRIGHTER, BETTER FUTURE, ONE OF HOPE AND OPPORTUNITY.

ONE THAT'S LOOKING FORWARDS THIS NEW DAWN, WITH A VISION FOR THE FUTURE, WILL ULTIMATELY HAS TO BE SOMETHING BETTER.

>> IT'S SO INTERESTING HEARING YOU SPEAK, AND, OF COURSE, WE ALL KNOW THAT THE SEAT OF GOVERNMENT WAS SUSPENDED FOR TWO YEARS, AND NOW, AS WE -- AS WE REFERENCED, YOU KNOW, THE LONGTIME LEADER OF THE DUP, JEFFREY DONALDSON HAS RESIGNED.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHETHER YOU THINK THAT WILL CALL ANY -- CAUSE INTERNAL ERUPTIONS THAT, YOU THINK IT MIGHT THREATEN THE STABILITY OF YOUR GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW?

>> SO, I WON'T COMMENT IN TERMS OF THE CHARGES THAT HAVE BEEN LAID, BECAUSE THAT'S FOR THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO DEAL WITH, BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT THE PUBLIC LOOK ON AND THEY LOOK TOWARDS THE POLITICAL LEADERS TO PROVIDE PRAGMATIC LEADERSHIP IN TRYING TO MAKE POLITICS WORK.

I HAVE SPOKEN TO ALL THE OTHER PARTIES, BECAUSE WE'RE A FOUR-PARTY GOVERNMENT, REMEMBER, AND I'VE SPOKEN TO ALL THE OTHER LEADERS TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO HAVE THAT LEADERSHIP, THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE THAT LEADERSHIP, THAT WE NEED TO HAVE CONTINUITY.

SO, I'M QUITE CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN CONTINUE IN THIS SPACE, THAT WE CAN CONTINUE THE GOOD WORK THAT WE HAVE, SINCE WE'VE HAD OUR GOVERNMENT RESTORED JUST TEN WEEKS AGO.

WE HAVE MUCH, MUCH WORK TO DO, AND I'M DETERMINED TO GET DOWN TO DO THAT, AND I HOPE THERE AREN'T ANY INTERRUPTIONS.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS HAPPENING AROUND US, THERE ARE ELECTIONS ON THE HORIZON, BUT WE'RE CHART OUR WAY THROUGH THAT.

OUR JOB IN THE EXECUTIVE, MY JOB AS FIRST MINISTER ALONGSIDE EMMA AS DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER AND ALL THE OTHER PARTIES OF THE EXECUTIVE IS TO GET ON WITH THE PUBLIC, DELIVERING GOOD PUBLIC SERVICES AND DOING OUR BEST.

>> NOW, MICHELLE O'NEILL, YOU ARE A TRAIL BLAZER, AND I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU SOUND SO INCLUSIVE AND YOUR DEPUTY MINISTER ALSO, IT'S NOT UNNOTICED THAT YOU ARE BOTH WOMEN IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD, PEACE MOVEMENTS ARE, YOU KNOW, ENVISIONED AND RUN, EVEN IN YOUR OWN, YOU KNOW, NORTH OF IRELAND, THE ORIGINAL PEACE MOVEMENT WAS TWO WOMEN WHO WON THE NOBEL PRIZE.

JUST REFLECT ON THAT, THAT AS THE FACT, AS WOMEN, YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF SOMETHING REALLY DRAMATIC, AND INCLUSIVE.

>> WELL, INCLUSION IS WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

I MEAN, WE'RE IN THIS NEW ERA OF CHANGE.

LAST YEAR, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME REFLECTING BACK ON THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT AND WHAT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED AND WHAT HASN'T BEEN ACHIEVED, OVER ALL THOSE YEARS SINCE, BUT FOR ME, IT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I'M VERY PROUD THAT THERE ARE TWO WOMEN -- VERY PROUD THAT IN MY OWN PARTY, THE PRESIDENT AND MYSELF AS THE VICE PRESIDENT, I'M VERY GLAD THAT IN THE EXECUTIVE, WE HAVE MYSELF AND EMMA, TWO JUNIOR MINISTERS WHO HAVE ALSO FEMALE.

IN THE NORTH OF IRELAND, WOMEN ARE LEADING THE WAY.

OUR LORD CHIEF JUSTICE IS A FEMALE.

THE HEAD OF OUR CIVIL SERVICE IS A FEMALE.

I HOPE THAT THAT WILL DEMONSTRATE OVER TIME HOW WE CAN MAKE CHANGE, BECAUSE I GOT INTO POLITICS TO MAKE CHANGE.

I'M DETERMINED TO LEAD THAT CHANGE, AND I THINK THAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS THERE TO DO THAT JOB, ALSO.

>> IT'S REALLY A GREAT PLEASURE TO TALK TO YOU.

CONGRATULATIONS, AND MICHELLE 0 O'NEIL THANK YOU FOR BEING ON THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

>>> NEXT, WE RETURN TO OUR TOP STORY, THE IDF CONTINUES TO CARRY OUT ITS WAR IN GAZA, AND THE HEALTH MINISTRY THERE SAYS MORE THAN 30,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

WHILE THE ISRAELI MILITARY IS FACING GROWING INTERNATIONAL WARNINGS AGAINST ITS PLANNED ASSAULT ON RAFAH.

AUTHOR AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS JOURNALIST EMILY TAMKIN HAS BEEN WRITING ABOUT THIS WAR FOR ONLINE MAGAZINE SLATE, AND HER MOST RECENT ARTICLE EXPLORES THE REACTION TO THE DEATH OF THE WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN AID WORKERS, AND SHE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS WHY SHE BELIEVES THIS STORY HAS PROVOKED MORE WORLDWIDE CONDEMNATION THAN BEFORE.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

EMILY, THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US ONCE AGAIN.

>> OF COURSE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU WROTE A PIECE FOR SLATE, WHY THE WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN AID WORKERS' DEATHS BROKE THROUGH THE HORROR OF THIS WAR.

FIRST THING I WANT TO ASK YOU IS, WHAT CONVINCES YOU THAT IT DID BREAK THROUGH?

>> RIGHT, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT IN THE PIECE IS THAT THE REACTION TO THESE DEATHS WAS SO -- THE REACTION WAS SO DRAMATIC AND SO FULL OF OUTRAGE, IN A WAY THAT WE REALLY HAVEN'T SEEN SO FAR IN THE SIX MONTHS SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, ISRAEL HAS KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS IN GAZA, AND IT'S NOT THAT PEOPLE HAVEN'T EXPRESSED SHOCK AND HORROR AND OUTRAGE TO ALL OF THAT, BUT THE SEVEN DEATHS OF WCK, PRESIDENT BIDEN MADE A STATEMENT OF OUTRAGE, SECRETARY OF STATE BLINKEN SAYING THAT U.S. POLICY WILL CHANGE IF ISRAEL DOESN'T CHANGE COURSE, YOU HAVE OUTRAGE FROM BRITAIN AND AUSTRALIA.

I WAS INTERESTED IN THE PERFECT STORM OF CONDITIONS THAT GOT THIS REACTION FROM LEADERS AND -- AND TO YOUR POINT, I ALSO WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR THAT STATEMENTS OF OUTRAGE -- AND EVEN OF APOLOGY FROM ISRAEL AND FROM THE IDF, WHICH IS QUITE RARE, THAT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT IT HAPPEN BROKEN THROUGH THE HORROR, RIGHT?

THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEAN THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE POLICY CHANGE.

>> WELL, SO, JUST BACK UP FOR A SECOND AND -- WHEN YOU HEARD WHAT HAPPENED, DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU REACTED?

>> I WAS AND AM SHOCKED BY THIS, THAT IT'S NOT -- IT'S ALSO NOT SURPRISING.

AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, AND I DON'T WANT TO DOWNPLAY THE HORROR OF SEVEN AID WORKERS BEING KILLED.

YOU KNOW, IT'S HORRIFIC, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO DISTRIBUTE FOOD TO THOSE IN DESPERATE NEED.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN -- THERE HAD ALREADY BEEN ROUGHLY 190 OTHER AID WORKERS KILLED OVER THE COURSE OF THIS WAR.

AGAIN, IN ADDITION TO TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS, AND SO -- THE CONDITIONS IN WHICH THIS WAR IS BEING CARRIED OUT, THE WAY IN WHICH THE WAR CAN CARRIED OUT, DOES NOT SUGGEST TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT JOSE ANDRES' TEAM WOULD BE ABLE TO INDEFINITELY SAFELY PROVIDE FOOD TO THOSE IN NEED.

>> AND JUST FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AWAY.

JOSE ANDRES IS THE FOUNDER OF WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN.

I'M IN THE WASHINGTON, D.C. AREA.

HE'S BECOME A MUCH BIGGER FIGURE THAN A RESTAURATEUR.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHY YOU THINK THIS HAS CAUSED THE REACTION THAT IT'S CAUSED.

>> A FEW HOURS BEFORE I GOT NEWS OF THE ATTACK, MY DAD AND I WERE TALKING, AND HE BROUGHT UP THE AID WORKERS AND SAID, THIS IS SO AMAZING, THEY ARE ABLE TO GET THE AID IN, PROVIDE THIS, HE'S SUCH A HERO.

AND SO, MY FIRST -- TO BE HONEST, MY FIRST REACTION WAS, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS.

AND THE REASON I MENTIONED THIS IS THAT I THINK THAT'S THE KIND OF SALIENCE THAT THEY HAVE, WHICH IS PART OF WHY YOU GOT AN APOLOGY FROM THE IDF, BECAUSE HE'S JUST FAMILIAR TO PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT OTHER NONPROFITS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT.

>> SO, YOU IDENTIFY A COUPLE OF FACTORS THAT YOU THINK ARE AT PLACE HERE.

ONE IS RACE.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK, LOOK, AND AGAIN, I DON'T -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT EVERY PERSON WHO WAS SHOCKED AND OUTRANGED BY THIS AND WASN'T BEFORE IS AN OUTRIGHT RACIST, BUT I THINK THERE IS AT MINIMUM AN INTERNALIZED PREJUDICE ABOUT WHO WE EXPECT TO DIE, RIGHT?

AND WHEN YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO DIE, YOU ARE ALSO ACCEPTING THEIR DEATH.

AND THERE IS A LEVEL OF PEOPLE ACCEPTING PALESTINIAN DEATH IN A WAY THEY DON'T, YOU KNOW, BRITISH OR AUSTRALIAN OR CANADIAN OR AMERICAN, SO, THERE WERE SEVEN WORKERS WHO WERE KILLED, ONE OF THEM WAS PALESTINIAN, THE OTHER SIX WERE NOT.

AND BASICALLY, THE MASSIVE HEADACHE THAT ISRAEL IS FACING NOW, THEY WOULD NOT HAD TO FACE HAD ALL SEVEN BEEN PALESTINIAN, AND I THINK THAT'S FAIR, AND I THINK THE WAY WE KNOW THAT THAT'S FAIR IS THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS KIND OF OUTRAGE UNTIL NOW.

THE OTHER TWO ARE, WE ALREADY SORT OF TOUCHED ON JOSE ANDRES' CELEBRITY.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO STRESS THAT IT'S NOT JUST THAT HE IS GLOBALLY FAMOUS, THOUGH HE IS.

YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE IN THE D.C. AREA, I AM, AS WELL.

HE'S SO WELL-KNOWN HERE IN PARTICULAR.

AND I THINK WHEN THE RESTAURANT THAT YOU GO TO AFTER WORK FOR DRINKS IS OWNED BY THE PERSON WHO IS GETTING ON -- WHO IS DOING A REUTERS INTERVIEW AND SAYING, THEY ARE KILLING AID WORKERS, THAT CUTS THROUGH IN A WAY THAT OTHER DEATHS, PERHAPS, DON'T.

AND I THINK THE FINAL -- THE FINAL REASON THAT I IDENTIFIED, AND THIS IS THE HARDEST TO ARTICULATE, IS THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE KILLED FOR DOING SOMETHING THAT IS AS INOFFENSIVE AS GIVING FOOD TO THOSE WHO ARE STARVING.

YOU KNOW, CRISIS GROUP, THE INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP CAME OUT WITH A REPORT JUST DAYS AGO, SAYING THAT THE NORTH OF GAZA IS ON THE BRINK OF FAMINE, SHOULD ISRAEL PUSH FURTHER INTO THE SOUTH, IT WILL BE THE CASE THERE, AS WELL.

STARVATION, IF IT DOES NOT KILL YOU, THE EFFECTS OF IT FOR CHILDREN ARE FELT THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THEIR LIVES, IT EFFECTS THEIR DEVELOPMENT, IT EFFECTS EVERY -- MENTALLY, PHYSICALLY, AND TO SAY NOTHING OF IT BEING COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT, TO SAY NOTHING OF HOW THE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE INHERENT HUMAN RIGHT THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO NOURISHMENT, THAT'S WHAT WAS BEING PROVIDED BY THESE AID WORKERS AND THAT'S WHY THEY WERE KILLED, BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO PROVIDE THAT.

I THINK THAT MERE FACT SORT OF GOT THROUGH TO PEOPLE WITH THAT -- WITH THESE STRIKES.

>> DO YOU THINK IT'S IN PART JUST HUMAN NATURE TO BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT PEOPLE THAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW OR THAT YOU ACTUALLY KNOW THAN ABOUT PEOPLE YOU DON'T?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, LOOK, I THINK IT'S -- I THINK IT'S HUMAN NATURE AND IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE AND IT'S ALSO SOMETHING WHERE IT IS MY HOPE THAT WE CAN TAKE THAT -- SORT OF TAKE THAT MOMENT OF CONNECTION AND RECOGNITION.

I UNDERSTAND IT'S HARD TO DO THAT.

TAKE THAT MOMENT OF RECOGNITION AND EXTEND TO OTHER PEOPLE WE HAVE NOT ENCOUNTERED.

AND I THINK IT'S HARD TO WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND, FOR ME, AT LEAST, EVERY ONE OF THOSE CRISIS GROUPS OF THE 32,000 PEOPLE, EVERY ONE OF THOSE 32,000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED SO FAR IN GAZA, AND ALL OF THOSE OTHER 190 SOMETHING AID WORKERS HAVE PEOPLE WHO KNEW THEM, TOO.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU SAID YOU ALSO THINK THIS COULD BE AN INFLECTION POINT IS THAT IT SPEAKS TO INCOMPETENCE, BECAUSE IN THE INITIAL WAKE OF THE OCTOBER 7th HAMAS ATTACK ON SOUTHERN ISRAEL, THE QUESTION WAS, WELL, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?

I MEAN, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BEST EQUIPPED, YOU KNOW, ARMY, INTELLIGENCE SERVICE, YOU KNOW, IN THE REGION, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT POLITICALLY AND IN EVERY OTHER INSTANCE, THIS WOULD BE, AS YOU PUT IT, A HEADACHE FOR THE IDF.

SO, WHAT ROLE DO YOU THINK THAT PLAYS, SORT OF SHIFTING PEOPLE'S THINKING ABOUT, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

>> I THINK THIS IS A QUESTION BOTH FOR ISRAEL'S ALLIES AND THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER COUNTRIES, AND ALSO FOR THE ISRAELI PEOPLE THEMSELVES, RIGHT, WHO PERHAPS AFTER OCTOBER 7th SUPPORTED, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTED THE WAR AND WANTED TO GET BACK AT HAMAS AND WANTED TO, YOU KNOW -- SAW THAT SMALL HAD TO CHANGE.

I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, THE IDF CONDUCTED ITS OWN INVESTIGATION, SAID THIS WAS A SERIES OF MISTAKES, OKAY, IF THAT'S TRUE -- WHY -- WHY WERE YOU -- WHY DID YOU STRIKE MULTIPLE TIMES CARS WITH WCK, YOU KNOW, SYMBOLS ON THEIR ROOFS ON A DECONFLICTED ROUTE?

AND WHY -- WHY HAVE 190 SOMETHING OTHER AID WORKERS ALSO BEEN KILLED OVER IF LAST SIX MONTHS?

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE -- JUST AS JOSE ANDRES AND WCK HAVE RESONANCE FOR OTHER PEOPLE OUTSIDE ISRAEL, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT UNLIKE UNRWA, WHERE ISRAEL HAS LONG SUSPECTED HAMAS INFILTRATION AND COOPERATION, WCK DOESN'T HAVE THAT REPUTATION IN ISRAEL, AND, IN FACT, AS WE SAID, YOU KNOW, WORKED TO FEED ISRAELIS AFTER OCTOBER 7th.

>> YES.

>> AND I THINK -- I THINK THAT PERHAPS THERE'S A WORLD IN WHICH THIS, BECAUSE IT'S SO HIGH PROFILE, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH AN INTERNATIONAL BROUHAHA, BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S SO CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD TO BE A TRAGEDY, THAT THIS ASKS, WELL, WHAT IS THE FASHION OF THIS WAR -- CAN THIS WAR AS IT'S BEING CARRIED OUT DO ANYTHING BUT KILL MANY PEOPLE.

AND IS THAT A WAR WE WANT TO STAND BEHIND?

>> LET ME JUST BE CLEAR ABOUT THE IDF.

THE IDF CHIEF OF STAFF SAID, I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR, THE STRIKE WAS NOT CARRIED OUT WITH THE INTENTION OF HARMING WCK AID WORKERS, IT WAS A MISTAKE THAT FOLLOWED A MISIDENTIFICATION AT NIGHT DURING A WAR IN VERY COMPLEX CONDITIONS, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

UNQUOTE.

YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT?

>> UM -- I WOULD SAY TWO THINGS.

THE FIRST IS THAT I DON'T THINK ANY MILITARY CAN CONDUCT ITS OWN INVESTIGATION INTO ITSELF.

I THINK THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THEY'RE CAPABLE OF DOING, PARTICULARLY DURING AN ONGOING WAR, AND SO WHILE I THINK THE RARE APOLOGY SPEAKS TO HOW SALIENT THIS EVENT IS, AND HOW, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE OUTRAGE THAT'S ENSUED, AND WHILE I AM, YOU KNOW, JUST ON A HUMAN LEVEL GLAD THAT IT'S BEEN TAKEN SERIOUSLY, I THINK THAT -- FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, THAT CAN'T BE ACCEPTABLE.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT AGAIN I WOULD STRESS IS THAT THESE SEVEN DEATHS WERE A TRAGEDY.

THESE WERE NOT THE ONLY AID WORKERS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED OVER THE COURSE OF THIS WAR, SO, I THINK A REASONABLE QUESTION IS, IF THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER ROUGHLY 190 PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO PROVIDE AID WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED IN THE COURSE OF THIS WAR?

>> DO YOU EVER WONDER ABOUT THE MORAL INJURY TO THE SOLDIERS AND RESERVISTS WHO HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE KINDS OF ACTS?

AND I WONDER WHETHER THERE'S SOME THOUGHT TO THE MORAL INJURY THAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING WHEN THEY FIND OUT THAT THEY HAVE KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO OFFER FOOD TO PEOPLE, I JUST -- I JUST WONDER IF ANYBODY TALKS ABOUT THAT.

>> WELL, THERE ARE, I MEAN, THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION IN ISRAEL CALLED BREAKING THE SILENCE, WHICH IS WHERE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SERVED IN THE MILITARY COME BACK AND SORT OF SAY, YOU KNOW -- IT'S SORT OF -- IT'S SORT OF A MEA CULPA.

>> YEAH.

>> AND I -- YOU KNOW, I THINK WE WILL HAVE SOME OF THAT IN THE WAKE OF THIS WAR.

I THINK OTHERS WILL BLAME HAMAS FOR PUTTING THEM IN THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I DON'T THINK WE KNOW YET HOW THE MILITARY SPECIFICALLY AND HOW, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE MILITARY SPECIFICALLY WILL PROCESS THIS.

I DO -- WE DO KNOW FROM STUDIES THAT YOUNGER PALESTINIANS AND YOUNGER ISRAELIS DO TEND TO BE MORE -- MORE HARDENED IN THEIR VIEWS, PARTICULARLY PALESTINIANS IN GAZA AND THE WEST BANK AND ISRAELIS IN ISRAEL PROPER.

TEND TO BE MORE HARDENED IN THEIR VIEWS AND MORE EXTREME AND SEE PEACE AS LESS OF A POSSIBILITY, AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I DON'T MEAN TO BE CYNICAL, BUT I DON'T SEE HOW THIS WAR DOES ANYTHING BUT EXACERBATE THAT TREND.

IN THE SHORT-TERM, AT LEAST.

>> RECOGNIZING YOU ARE A JOURNALIST AND AN ANALYST, YOU ARE NOT AN ELECTED PERSON, ARE THERE OTHER THINGS, AS A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THIS CLOSELY, WHAT ELSE SHOULD HAPPEN IN YOUR OPINION?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN, AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS?

>> THE RHEAL IS THAT AS A HUMAN BEING, I THINK THAT TO SAY, LIKE, OH, PEOPLE STARVE IN WAR, IS JUST UNACCEPTABLE, AND THE CRISIS GROUP REPORT THAT I MENTIONED SAYS IF THERE IS NOT AN INDEFINITE CEASE-FIRE, THERE WILL BE MASS STARVATION AND EVEN SHORT OF THAT CEASE-FIRE, THERE NEEDS TO BE DRAMATIC CHANGE AND MUCH MORE AID NEEDS TO BE ALLOWED INTO GAZA BY ISRAEL.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CHANGES, LIKE, IN THE WAKE OF THIS -- IN THE WAKE OF THIS STRIKE, AND I THINK IF THOSE ARE JUST SORT OF TO MAKE PEOPLE STOP LOOKING, AND THEN IT GOES BACK TO AS IT WAS, THAT'S TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

I ALSO DO WONDER IF, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE BIDEN SAYING HE'S OUTRAGED, YOU HAVE BLINKEN SAYING SOMETHING MUST CHANGE.

YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS ON THE HILL, INCLUDING NANCY PELOSI SAYING THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO ISRAEL SUSPENDED, I GUESS, AGAIN, WE WERE SPEAKING BEFORE ABOUT -- ABOUT THE ISRAELI PEOPLE ASKING THEMSELVES, WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THIS, YOU KNOW, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR MONTHS NOW HAVE SAID THEY WANT TO SEE TRANSFER OF POWER IN GAZA, THEY WANT TO SEE FEWER CIVILIAN DEATHS, THEY WANT TO SEE MORE AID LET IN, THEY EVENTUALLY WANT TO SEE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A PALESTINIAN STATE, AND I GUESS MY QUESTION FOR THEM IS, IF YOUR CURRENT POLICY IS NOT GETTING YOU ANY OF THOSE THINGS, THEN WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE POLICY?

AND I THINK AS JOURNALISTS, IT IS OUR JOB TO ASK THAT QUESTION, RIGHT?

IF YOU SAY, OKAY, IF YOU DON'T LET MORE HUMANITARIAN AID IN, WE'RE GOING TO BE REALLY UPSET -- OKAY?

AND WHAT?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH ALL OF THAT UPSET, ALL OF THAT OUTRAGE?

SO, THAT IS -- THAT'S WHAT I WILL BE WATCHING FOR IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS TO COME.

>> BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, DO YOU MIND IF I ASK, HOW ARE YOU?

IT SEEMS MAYBE A HARD MOMENT TO DECIDE WHAT IS FAIR.

AND TO SORT OF HONOR THE SUFFERING THAT ONE SEES WITHOUT SUFFERING AND OTHERS, AND I'M JUST ASKING, HOW IS THIS FOR YOU?

>> I THINK THERE'S A SENSE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT YOU'RE ON SORT OF ONE OR OTHER SIDE OF SUFFERING.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND IT -- WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, LIKE, THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES WHO ARE BEING HELD IN GAZA, WHO SHOULD NOT BE THERE, I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS, THEY ALSO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO FOOD, RIGHT?

THEY ARE ALSO -- THEY ARE ALSO UNDER AERIAL BOMBARDMENT.

AND SO, I THINK THE IDEA THAT THERE'S A WINNER IN SUFFERING AND -- IS A BIT -- I THINK IT'S A BIT OF A FALSE DICHOTOMY THAT SOME IN THE AMERICAN POLITICAL DISCOURSE HAVE PRESENTED.

AND THE OTHER THING, YOU KNOW, I -- YEAH, IT'S BEEN, LOOK, I THINK FOR ALL OF US REPORTING ON THIS, IT'S BEEN AN INTENSE LAST SIX MONTHS.

I WRITE AS A JEWISH JOURNALIST, AND I OFTEN WRITE IN A WAY THAT'S CRITICAL OF CHOICES THAT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS MADE, OR INDIVIDUAL JEWISH GROUPS, WHICH, I THINK, WHENEVER YOU ARE ASSUMING AND IDENTITY AND WRITING ABOUT -- WRITING FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, THERE WILL BE ALSO THOSE THAT CLAIM THAT IDENTITY THAT GET UPSET AND PERHAPS EMAIL OR, YOU KNOW, SORT OF -- WRITE WHATEVER ON SOCIAL MEDIA, AND THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE MOST PLEASANT, BUT I DO THINK THAT WHAT I'VE RETURNED TO IS -- I'M FINE, I'M HERE IN MY HOME IN D.C., RIGHT, I'M SAFE, I HAVE FOOD, AND THERE ARE -- I JUST THINK THE TOLL THIS HAS TAKEN ON JOURNALISTS AND, YOU KNOW, JOURNALISTS IN ISRAEL WHO ARE TRYING TO HOLD THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT AND DO THE JOB OF JOURNALISM, AND JOURNALISTS IN GAZA WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO THEIR JOBS UNDER UNIMAGINABLE CIRCUMSTANCES, IS HUMBLING, TO SAY THE VERY LEAST.

AND WHENEVER I SORT OF, YOU KNOW, FIND MYSELF START TO WALLOW, THAT'S WHAT I RETURN TO.

>> EMILY TAMKIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND, OF COURSE, WE REMEMBER ALL THE JOURNALISTS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, AFTER THE HISTORIC VICTORY FOR CLIMATE GRANNIES WHO TOOK THEIR COUNTRY TO COURT, WE WANTED TO FOCUS ON THIS GROUP OF SWISS WOMEN, MOSTLY IN THEIR 70s, WHO ACHIEVED THIS HISTORIC FIRST AT THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS, NO LESS.

OVER 2,000 MEMBERS OF SENIOR WOMEN FOR CLIMATE PROTECTION LAUNCHED THEIR CAMPAIGN IN 2016.

CLAIMING SWISS CLIMATE POLICIES PUT THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS AT RISK.

AND ALL THESE YEARS LATER, THE COURT AGREED.

AND THIS GROUNDBREAKING RULING SETS A PRECEDENT FOR FUTURE ACTIVISTS TO HOLD THEIR LEADERS TO ACCOUNT.

>> Translator: WE CAN BE VERY PROUD, WE, THE ELDERLY, TO HAVE BROUGHT TO THE COURT FOR THE FIRST TIME THE ISSUE OF CLIMATE AND FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS.

AND THE COURT HAS RECOGNIZED US AND OUR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO A HEALTHY CLIMATE.

AND THAT OUR COUNTRY SHOULD DO WHAT IT HAS NOT DONE UNTIL NOW, MEANING TO TAKE AMBITIOUS MEASURES TO PROTECT OUR HEALTH AND TO PROTECT THE FUTURE FOR ALL OF US.

>> SO MUCH WISDOM AND EXPERIENCE IN AGE.

LAST YEAR, DURING THEIR COURT BATTLE, I SPOKE TO ONE OF THESE ACTIVISTS, ELIZABETH STERN, A MEMBER OF WHAT WE MIGHT CALL GENERATION BRA BURNERS, WHO ALSO FOUGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

I ASKED HER ABOUT THIS STRUGGLE.

>> PEOPLE FIGURED OUT THAT YOU FIRST OF ALL, MANY OF THESE WOMEN WERE ACTIVE ALL THEIR LIVES.

THEY WERE NOT JUST SUDDENLY COMING OUT OF NOWHERE, COMPLAINING BECAUSE, OH, IT'S TOO HOT.

THEY WERE ACTIVE ALL ALONG, AND WE WERE INVITED TO SO MANY PRESENTATIONS, TALKS, AND LEARNED THAT WE ARE NOT THE GRANNIES, AS -- WELL, MANY OF US ARE GRANNIES, BUT NOT IN SORT OF THE TRADITIONAL SENSE OF SITTING IN A ROCKING CHAIR AND JUST KNITTING SOMETHING.

THESE ARE WOMEN, THEY MIGHT BE FRAIL, SOME OF US ARE FRAIL IN OUR BODY, BUT GOD, I TELL YOU, SO FIT IN THEIR HEAD AND IN THEIR COMMITMENT.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM NEW YORK.